Monk Nerf

[Eccentricaa]

During what era was that big monk ac nerf? I remember the complaints.. but dont recall when it happened...

[Kassel]

POP

[Eccentricaa]

So no gimpy monks for us here?

[Kender]

the heavy nerf was with pop. but from what i've read here somewhere the combat code for emu is based on the post nerf monk so in effect they are already nerfed in that regard

i might be completely wrong though

[Messianic]

I remember at least a significant AC nerf in the Luclin/Velious era...Can anyone separate the two or provide info on each? I quit about 1/2-3/4 the way into luclin, so...

[Curmudgen]

monks got the mitigation big fat shaft up the behind in velious as I remember.

[Bushwick]

monks got the mitigation big fat shaft up the behind in velious as I remember.

This isn't true. My main was a monk and I was happily tanking for groups into mid-Luclin, when I quit. I heard about the nerf monks were hit with some time later, probably during PoP, and was glad I was through with the game.

[Bushwick]

Monk mitigation changes occurred during Velious.

nope!

[Kanz]

It was during PoP and really didn't affect end game geared monks. Still had more ac than my brother's equally geared warrior.

[oldhead]

The official announcement was three days prior to the release of POP. The nerf happened sometime in PoP.

I know because thats what did it for me. Thats why I quit EQ.

The night I heard they were going to do it I didnt even bother to wait and see how bad it was. I canceled my multiple preorders of Pop and began to sell off my account (made an easy $3000)

That nerf was the straw that broke it for me.

From what I heard of thos server is it still operate under that same mitigation change.
So I believe monks are still "nerfed" on this server if you compare the mitigation to classic. But im not a number cruncher so who knows.

[oldhead]

It was during PoP and really didn't affect end game geared monks. Still had more ac than my brother's equally geared warrior.


the mitigation nerf was directly aimed at end game geared monks.

SoE thought that top geared monks could tank too well... I guess I should say Furor thought this and SoE listened.

I was a top geared monk and had worked my way there as an iksar all through kunark.
Raided in velious and luclin... was just enjoying the fruits of my labors when they nerf'ed me. ARRGHHHAARRR!!

[Kanz]

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=416&highlight=mitigation+nerf

Lot of posts about it. Was intended to nerf the uber geared so they couldn't raid tank but ended up hitting those not as well geared. Was my experience anyways that it really did nothing to me. As to whether or not it's like this here, not sure until I roll my iksar monk.

[Bushwick]

It was during PoP and really didn't affect end game geared monks. Still had more ac than my brother's equally geared warrior.

You misunderstand the result of the nerf. It didn't reduce the AC of monks at all. What changed was the way that AC value could be used to mitigate the damage you took. I wasn't playing at the time, but I heard monks were changed to tank like the leather class they were, with some evasion to help out.

[Loke]

Yea, I really don't know what people are talking about saying it was in Velious. If people remember, Furor was one of the big crusaders to have monks mitigation nerfed and part of his reasoning was because that monks were tanking Ssra / VT mobs more effectively than warriors. The whole nerf was targeted at high end monks who were up int he 1400+ AC range. Pretty sure it was either late Luclin or early PoP. It definitely did not occur in Velious though, because I specifically remember ramp tanking AL, TVK and similar mobs in Luclin.

[girth]

It was definitely Luclin. Furor threw a huge public hissy fit because monks were tanking emperor and shit and he was upset that he rolled the basic tank class yet wasn't the best tank.

It was the huge ac/hp items that were all/all at the end of velious and in luclin that made monks so sick at tanking.

[spoolie]

OCTOBER 16, 2002

Defensive Changes:

* Decreased Monks' ability to mitigate damage (please see the Developer's Update on www.everquestlive.com for more details).
* Improved the ability of Paladins, Shadowknights, Warriors and Bards to mitigate damage in some situations.
* Upgraded Warrior dodge cap to 190.
* Upgraded Paladin, Shadowknight and Bard dodge cap to 170.
* Upgraded Ranger and Beastlord dodge to 170 and defense to 240.

[Omnimorph]

Tanks always had a problem with how well monks could take a hit.

[Henini]

rightfully so, in what world is it fair to be one of the top dpsers, puller, and tank all at once? when you have classes like rogues who can only do dps, and warrior who can only tank. monk were always over powered and are still if you ask me.
I use to play a rogue on live and it was a lot of fun, but when I was lfg for hours and hours staring at mobs from far away and saw monks just kill them as they ran by because to join their group (since they can do it all) it's that easy... well I wasn't happy.

maybe they should get a 40% exp penalty like hybrids since they are multi function.

[Omnimorph]

No point complaint about it here, if it's classic it's in. Monks were and are OPed. Just like mages!!

[Messianic]

I can't find it in the patch notes so it looks like i'm wrong, but I feel like I remember some kind of mitigation/AC nerf before the one mentioned here. I stopped playing before September 2002, but I specifically remember being able to solo certain dark blue mobs prior to said nerf....but afterward, I couldn't get them down to 20% before I bit the dust. It was part of why I lost interest in the game; I couldn't solo even weak blues and had a very odd schedule which kept me from grouping much.

Oh well - probably just poor memory on my part.

[iamjack]

rightfully so, in what world is it fair to be one of the top dpsers, puller, and tank all at once? when you have classes like rogues who can only do dps, and warrior who can only tank. monk were always over powered and are still if you ask me.
I use to play a rogue on live and it was a lot of fun, but when I was lfg for hours and hours staring at mobs from far away and saw monks just kill them as they ran by because to join their group (since they can do it all) it's that easy... well I wasn't happy.

maybe they should get a 40% exp penalty like hybrids since they are multi function.

monk have a 20% exp penalty for hybrids already =D

btw, so are we playing nerfed monk in P99?

[yaeger]

From what I understood, the monks weren't exceptional tanks until Velious, where the generic gear for monks had amazing AC combined with their AC gained from low weight.

After that mistake Verant/SOE decided to closely watch what gear (leather) monks were given from then on to prevent monks from being a replacement tank.

And this...

------------------------------
October 16, 2002 4:30 am
------------------------------

- Decreased Monks' ability to mitigate damage (please see the
Developer's Update on www.everquestlive.com for more details)


Which was a couple days before PoP went live.

[Yoite]

it was the all/all crazy items from NToV and such that made monks crazy. face mask with 50ac, range item with 50ac, etc etc etc, not to mention having +10 or 15 or 20 saves to all and + to sta or dex or str or agi or w/e. shit was crazy. it made a huge difference trying to raid Luclin targets without being in NToV gear. my 1st run through the original timeline my guild never got to farm NToV. We struggled to take down Luclin targets in our bazaar gear but we did and it was awesome accomplishment.

before i found P99, i was in a progression raiding guild on the test server. we farmed NToV for a good while before we moved to Luclin and omg what a difference it made in Luclin. we basically flew through Luclin which only overpowered us more and when we hit PoP we did the PoP progression and were in Time in like no time...hehe

It was still a pretty good challenge, but it was a much different than when i had crap gear doing those raid and when i had basically perfect gear.

[Loke]

I think you're exaggerating a tad bit Yoite. I mean, there were some insane items, but they were off mobs like Vulak or quested via Dozekar... the vast majority of items in NToV were fairly balanced and expansion appropriate imo. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely some items that were much better than the others off the regular dragons in NToV - but there were no 50 AC masks (30 AC is best I can remember off Vulak) or 50 AC monk range items that I can remember(honestly don't remember what I used, think I had a hand of the master which was 20 or 25 until I replaced it with Luclin loot).

There were definitely some ridiculously sweet items, but they were very rare and very few monks (if any) on live were walking around rocking like 5 or 6 Vulak / Doze items.

[Noselacri]

There were 30-50 AC items in virtually every slot for monks, plus a few absurd items like the tradeable barb leggings with 60 AC, 100 HP. That's what caused the problem. The idea behind the nerf was very reasonable: monks already had two strong roles, so allowing them to fulfill a third was too much. It was just poorly implemented and affected the wrong demographic, leaving the monks with the gear to tank largely untouched while nerfing the average-geared ones. If they had coded it correctly, this nerf would have been both warranted and reasonable.

[Omnimorph]

Ntov stuff was pretty good, but then it matched the risk vs reward. Hell some of the plane of sky items are on par with tov items.

The problem came after velious where they had to scale all the items, and they've been doing it since :D

[Ponden]

Like this Omni? http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=89994

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I think you're exaggerating a tad bit Yoite. I mean, there were some insane items, but they were off mobs like Vulak or quested via Dozekar... the vast majority of items in NToV were fairly balanced and expansion appropriate imo. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely some items that were much better than the others off the regular dragons in NToV - but there were no 50 AC masks (30 AC is best I can remember off Vulak) or 50 AC monk range items that I can remember(honestly don't remember what I used, think I had a hand of the master which was 20 or 25 until I replaced it with Luclin loot).

There were definitely some ridiculously sweet items, but they were very rare and very few monks (if any) on live were walking around rocking like 5 or 6 Vulak / Doze items.


I'm honestly surprised that a monk AC in velious/luclin QQ thread has been made without a link to....

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=8941

lulz, 60ac mnk only, suck it long and suck it hard trebec D=

As for the nerf itself, it lowered their soft cap significantly (decreased scaling starting at lower gear levels) but the end result for perfect monks was negligible--it really became more of an aggro issue around mid luclin / late PoP, and mnks maintained their viability as ramp tanks just fine (though usually you had 5-6 lollygagging SKs, who once they casted their +hate buff, were just loldps and forced to ramptank anyway D=)

edit: Not saying that shit like BoSpeed weren't contributing factors, just surprised the flayed barbs weren't the first mentioned item :P