Account Selling

[Tuggo]

From what I have seen account selling is the way to make plat on this server. I guess everyone does it So what is the deal with it?

[Feather]

The deal is that if I know you purchased an account, I won't group with you.
:rolleyes:

[Tuggo]

and I'd be sad how?

[Omnimorph]

Some people actually play eq for the social aspect... Crazy right?

[yraapt]

I have been wondering about this too. I see the post about RMT bans, but apparently trading accounts or selling accounts for plat is OK? Seems sketchy to me, but this isn't my server so I'll just move along. :)

[Omnimorph]

If people are stupid enough to pay real money then that's on them. Just keep in mind this isn't an official server where the people running it are obligated to do anything for you if it goes wrong. Also if for whatever reason the server was to die, that's money you've wasted.

[Infectious]

If people are stupid enough to play an video game to interact with people I think you are the stupid one. People buy accounts cause it is cheaper to buy an account that has 100 hours on it for $100 then to play them 100 hours. Everyone is grown and time is money and those who dont have time would rather just throw a couple dollars then waste the next 2 or 3 months of there time grinding.

[Trimm]

Personally I'm not a fan of account selling. One of the things I liked the best about this server when it started was the small community aspect and everyone tended to know who everyone else was. Selling accounts defeats this. Back then, being a jackass in game and screwing other people over had an impact on your reputation and word got around. Now, you can just sell your account for 200,000 plat and start fresh with another level 50 character.

I wish It would go away, however its not against the rules so It's something we'll have to live with.

[Omnimorph]

If people are stupid enough to play an video game to interact with people I think you are the stupid one. People buy accounts cause it is cheaper to buy an account that has 100 hours on it for $100 then to play them 100 hours. Everyone is grown and time is money and those who dont have time would rather just throw a couple dollars then waste the next 2 or 3 months of there time grinding.

Sorry sir, you'll have to try harder to troll me.

[Prefader]

If people are stupid enough to play an video game to interact with people I think you are the stupid one.

FFS, this is just screaming to be a sig.

Sorry, an sig.

[Lazortag]

I can't stand account selling for a very different reason - the people buying the accounts take on classes that they have no idea how to play. It's fucking frustrating when you know that the guy you're grouping with didn't get to 50 on his own because otherwise they wouldn't play like shit.

[Prefader]

I can't stand account selling for a very different reason - the people buying the accounts take on classes that they have no idea how to play. It's fucking frustrating when you know that the guy you're grouping with didn't get to 50 on his own because otherwise they wouldn't play like shit.

Agreed.

There is something to be said for intent, though. There is a path that was intended to be taken in levelling a character. To bypass that is . . . well . . . dumb. It's a bit like playing a driving game and winning the races by cutting all the chicanes: sure, you still win, but you didn't really play the game the way it was intended, so the victory is meaningless.

[HippoNipple]

If people are stupid enough to play an video game to interact with people I think you are the stupid one. People buy accounts cause it is cheaper to buy an account that has 100 hours on it for $100 then to play them 100 hours. Everyone is grown and time is money and those who dont have time would rather just throw a couple dollars then waste the next 2 or 3 months of there time grinding.

A lot of these people would have to be Jewish to budget their unemployment checks to pay for an internet connection, rockstar, fresh socks and a level 50 character.

[Trimm]

I can't stand account selling for a very different reason - the people buying the accounts take on classes that they have no idea how to play. It's fucking frustrating when you know that the guy you're grouping with didn't get to 50 on his own because otherwise they wouldn't play like shit.

Its also a pain in the ass for guilds. Any time we get a new applicant, we have to be forums detectives and try to see if its a real player or a bought account. Just a headache all around.

I think it should be against the rules for the same reason 2 boxing is, to keep the integrity of the server high and protect the player base who wants to have a classic experience.

[Messianic]

A lot of these people would have to be Jewish to budget their unemployment checks to pay for an internet connection, rockstar, fresh socks and a level 50 character.

Cmon dude - why bring the Jewish thing into it? =P

[Messianic]

I think it should be against the rules for the same reason 2 boxing is, to keep the integrity of the server high and protect the player base who wants to have a classic experience.

If there was a reasonable and efficient method of enforcement, i'd agree with you...But as it is, the best solution is to just monitor communication to try to minimize RMT. Perhaps a way to monitor account transactions or a central clearinghouse to monitor this might be helpful..?

[KilyenaMage]

It was nice levelling up a Rogue for awhile. I was the only one ever in a zone....

I see hoards of Rogues being PLed and sold now. Oh well.

[yraapt]

I don't think there is a way to truly prevent RMT trades, but currently trading/selling accounts is being facilitated on P1999 boards. If admins were against it they could force this sort of thing to be done elsewhere.

[Omnimorph]

Well when you think you could buy a level 50 for like 50k, the time it takes to farm 50k is a lot less than the time it would take to get to 50.

Two roads diverged in a wood
And I took the one less traveled by
And that has made all the difference.

[HippoNipple]

Well when you think you could buy a level 50 for like 50k, the time it takes to farm 50k is a lot less than the time it would take to get to 50.

Two roads diverged in a wood
And I took the one less traveled by
And that has made all the difference.

but you have to have a 50 before you can farm the 50k for another 50..... too many 50s.

so it takes the time to level up a level 50 + the time to farm 50k to get a level 50 char... on a server where you can only play 1 character at a time.... something sounds corrupt here.

[KilyenaMage]

The problem as I mentioned before is the fact that people are PLing/Gearing toons SPECIFICALLY just to sell them now. Just like live.

Also you don't have to have a lvl 50 to farm the 50k plat if you just purchase that too.

[Messianic]

but you have to have a 50 before you can farm the 50k for another 50..... too many 50s.

so it takes the time to level up a level 50 + the time to farm 50k to get a level 50 char... on a server where you can only play 1 character at a time.... something sounds corrupt here.

People might buy accounts to entice their friends who formerly played live to come play.

People might want a different feel for the game than they're getting with their current class.

People might want to have a class better suited for kunark.

People might want a niche class for a specific purpose (i.e. necro for farming lguk).

People might just want to play a different class every now and then since they're 50 with nothing to do.


Sure, it "sounds corrupt," but there are plenty of legitimate reasons someone might want a second 50.

[Noselacri]

I just wonder how people can get a character to 50, even with power-leveling which stops being effective after a point, in less time than they could have farmed 50k. Are they doing it because the farming spots are so overcamped that people literally can't find a place to make money? It would seem to me that anyone with the capacity to routinely PL chars to 50 ought to be able to farm that amount of money in less time and with less effort. It's not as if 1-50 can be done in a weekend unless you have an entire team devoted to it, and even then I would be skeptical. Are people really making a business out of this? So far, the chars I've seen for sale were obviously someone's actual character for a while until they wanted to get rid of it, for one of the reasons mentioned above.

[Dantes]

I can understand the player who spent months leveling up a toon to 50 and decided they didn't like the class turning around to sell/trade their account. They don't want to do all of that work over again. And lots of people have played several different classes, there's rarely ever a brand newbie anymore. To say you won't group with them because they don't know what they are doing is kind of extreme. Chances are, if they can raise 75 to 150k for an account they know a little bit about what they're doing. And why buy an account you don't know how to play? What if you don't like it? That's a waste of plat. Most people stick to what they know.

On the other hand, people are leveling alts specifically to sell them now, which is a bit excessive. It's completely raping the economy sideways. To be a brand new player on here with your first toon must be hard with a bunch of powerlevel crazy account sellers and buyers offering 20k per yak. People are bored so they have nothing to do but farm plat and buy stuff for twinks. And of course other people have already touched on the detrimental effects of powerleveling in popular low level dungeons.

I'm pretty sure it encourages RMTs too. What's to stop somebody who loses a bid from creating a separate anonymous account to make a cash offer? Allowing the accounts to be sold on P99 forums makes the trades very public and easy to advertise, which may get the attention of less than desirable individuals offering cash trades. Maybe I need my tin-foil conspiracy hat, but some people have already said they have received private messages or tells with cash offers.

I am hoping all of this will slow down when Kunark comes out. People are bored now, with Kunark they'll grind to 60, start their Iksars, or be concerned about raiding high level content again.

[Messianic]

I think it's a bit extreme to say that account trading is "raping the economy."

80% of my time lately is spent selling/buying things. I haven't noticed any "raping" going on.

[Henini]

Account selling was never legal on live, it happened, but if you got caught, the account was banned.

Yes, there are many reasons why one would want to play a different class. there are different reasons why someone would want to quit also. those reason don't justify the selling/trading of accounts.

You are bored with your fully decked out uber l337 lvl 50 toon... roll an other one, I seriously doubt any of those transferred accounts have all toon slots filled. that's the intended use of the game, not selling/buying accounts. It's pretty obvious to me, and most of us here played on live back in the days and know this. why it's even being debated is beyond me!

the trading of accounts has the same kind of impact on the game as dual-boxing, yet dual boxing isn't allowed (even if anyone who plays a bit can tell lots are doing it). There are no reasons (subscription fees) here to allow dual-boxing, there shouldn't be any to allow selling of accounts, RMT or not (which we will never know for sure).


I'm sure the team has a reasoning as to why they let the selling of accounts happen, I just fail to see it.

just don't come and say it's classic, cuz it's not. what's classic is your #@!#$ getting banned for trying.

[yaeger]

People might want a different feel for the game than they're getting with their current class.

People might want to have a class better suited for kunark.

People might want a niche class for a specific purpose (i.e. necro for farming lguk).

People might just want to play a different class every now and then since they're 50 with nothing to do.


Sure, it "sounds corrupt," but there are plenty of legitimate reasons someone might want a second 50.

Why not play this 2nd character on the account they already have?

[Messianic]

Why not play this 2nd character on the account they already have?

Because they can't buy a level 50 character and transfer it into the account they already have.

[M.Bison]

I just wonder how people can get a character to 50, even with power-leveling which stops being effective after a point, in less time than they could have farmed 50k. It's not as if 1-50 can be done in a weekend unless you have an entire team devoted to it, and even then I would be skeptica

I PL'd my roommate's monk from 1-47 in 2.5 days with my druid. Considering we werent online like 20+hrs a day, 1-50 could be done easily in a weekend with just a druid, any other classes would just expedite the process.

[Lagaidh]

I PL'd my roommate's monk from 1-47 in 2.5 days with my druid. Considering we werent online like 20+hrs a day, 1-50 could be done easily in a weekend with just a druid, any other classes would just expedite the process.

Having a druid around is just great. Glad the wife agreed to be one and not her beloved cleric. This selfishly lets me be my old pally. In a duo... we're still raking in the xp with me doing most of the dmg! (Really paid to spend a week in the EC tunnel and get that GB)

Tank love a Druid!

[Feather]

and I'd be sad how?

You would be sad that I won't group with you because I would know how to play my class and would be an asset to the group - - and any good player won't want to group with someone who hasn't put in the time to learn their class.

There was nothing more ridiculous than a level 50 High Elf Wizard asking for directions to the guild hall in Felwithe. :eek:

[Noselacri]

I'm sure the team has a reasoning as to why they let the selling of accounts happen, I just fail to see it.

The reason, I'm guessing, is that they don't have dozens of professionally hired GMs to deal with this sort of thing. It's not exactly hard to get away with buying a character, especially if you buy one that isn't well known (one of these hypothetical PL-to-50 deals), so they would have a lot of trouble policing it. Thus, instead of having the inevitable drama of everyone accusing everyone of being a purchased character, they allow it. Most of us, and I'm assuming the admins included, would prefer if it didn't happen at all, but it's unavoidable.

RMT has to be disallowed because it compromises the server since it operates on the sole premise of SOE not crushing EQEmu, something that hasn't happened because there isn't a real-world currency business involved. However, there hasn't been a server as hugely popular as this one before, and if RMT was to become widespread, SOE might start to take an interest. It would be hard for Nilbog to prove in court that they're not the ones making money off of character sales, especially because they very easily could. A private WoW server recently got sued for $80mil because the operator was offering in-game services of some kind for real money, and another classic EQ project (unrelated to EQEmu) was ordered to cease and desist by Sony one or two years ago despite not involving any kind of profit at all and not even being launched yet. I'm sure the p1999 guys want to avoid that sort of thing, even if they can't stop the much more common and more easily accessible plat-for-toons trades.

[yraapt]

That doesn't really make sense. If they were against it but didn't have the power to enforce it they could at least prohibit advertising it on the official forums.

[Messianic]

That doesn't really make sense. If they were against it but didn't have the power to enforce it they could at least prohibit advertising it on the official forums.

Why? It's more effective to have communication logs (PMs, posts, etc) as extra evidence...

[yraapt]

I would guess that if a person wanted to buy a char for cash they would just send a PM asking for the user's email. The advertisement happens on the official forum, but then the actual RMT offer would happen via another channel.

but thats just a guess... I'm sure there some people who offer cash via PMs. I don't know if admins catch that or not.

[Noselacri]

That doesn't really make sense. If they were against it but didn't have the power to enforce it they could at least prohibit advertising it on the official forums.

Because it'll happen no matter what, and transparency lessens the drama. This way, the GMs will be able to keep some measure of track and control over traded characters in case one is used for exploiting or harrassment, something that is probably more likely to be done by a character bought for plat than one played by an active and known member of the community.

[Dantes]

I'm not so sure about that. If you took away their best advertising medium, most folks probably wouldn't even bother selling the accounts in the first place.

[HippoNipple]

Yeah if they made a statement in an update and when you log in that said as of October 5th all people trying to purchase accounts with platinum or real $ will be banned. All people advertising for sales of accounts on the forums will also be banned, it would stop 99% of it.

I don't know why they don't do that. It would make the community healthier.

[Noselacri]

Hard to say unless they make a rule about it. I wouldn't mind if they do, but I also don't have as big of a problem with toon-buying as some seem to. I suspect it'll decline considerably in Kunark, though, because the 50s take so long that PLing through them is barely an option. By then, character selling might be reduced to people who want to actually reroll, and not people making a business out of PLing characters to sell them, if that in fact happens.

[Darklake]

I can't stand account selling for a very different reason - the people buying the accounts take on classes that they have no idea how to play. It's fucking frustrating when you know that the guy you're grouping with didn't get to 50 on his own because otherwise they wouldn't play like shit.

But the majority of people here at Project 1999 would have had prior experience of live EQ - say the person buying that level 50 Enchanter was the top of his server back in the day and really doesn't want the grind to get there? Don't assume all purchased accounts would be clueless noobs.

[Fawqueue]

I honestly think we should end the account selling, even if it is just for plat. It really serves no useful purpose. It either pumps a ton of platinum into the economy, promotes laziness, or encourages PLers taking advantage of the market to dominate spots traditionally taken by a group of lower level players. For you, the individual, sure it's great to say "Hey I'm bored with my necro, maybe I'll try a monk!". But for the community as a whole, it's 100% negative and contributes zilch. Everything else that's viewed solely as a selfish benefit (two-boxing, using mods, etc) isn't allowed...just strange that THIS is where the line is drawn.

[Kassel]

I think if you want another 50 you should level it

[Noselacri]

But the majority of people here at Project 1999 would have had prior experience of live EQ - say the person buying that level 50 Enchanter was the top of his server back in the day and really doesn't want the grind to get there? Don't assume all purchased accounts would be clueless noobs.

Also, frankly, EQ1 is such a primitive game that the majority of the classes really take no actual experience to play sufficiently. Many classes operate on like two or three buttons the vast majority of the time. This is probably the least skill-based of all MMORPGs ever, and playing well has much more to do with one's knowledge of the game as a whole than with whatever class one plays, with a select few exceptions like monk pulling in planes and such. If you're an experienced player who cares so much about EQ1 that you'll play it on a private server eleven years later, you probably know enough about the game to pick up any class and already know everything you need to know, or learn it in a couple of days. Someone who has the ability to farm 50-100k plat and is willing to spend it on an ungeared character probably isn't completely oblivious to playing it. That always seemed like a really weak reason for being opposed to char-selling. I dislike it because it's against the spirit of the game and because it cheapens the value and accomplishment of a character, not because I'm worried about ending up in a group with somebody who didn't personally gain every one of their levels and thus can't play well enough to defeat NPCs, because I've never in my life experienced that. They can ban char-trading all they want, it'll never affect me in the least because I don't participate in it, but it would continue to some extent and it would turn a lot of players into rulebreakers, something that tends to expand into other areas once a person has crossed that line.

[username17]

I agree, we should end it but not right now.

I'm nowhere near end game, but it seems that a lot of the level 50s don't have anything to do.
If we stopped account selling now I doubt it would actually stop because it gives 50s something to do.

I say keep it going until Kunark hits.
It will die down then and take that reduced volume and decrease it to 0 by banning it.

Thoughts?

[Noselacri]

I agree, we should end it but not right now.

I'm nowhere near end game, but it seems that a lot of the level 50s don't have anything to do.
If we stopped account selling now I doubt it would actually stop because it gives 50s something to do.

I say keep it going until Kunark hits.
It will die down then and take that reduced volume and decrease it to 0 by banning it.

Thoughts?

Seems reasonable enough. At this point, anyone who buys a character has already done most of what there is to do. You don't get level 20s buying a level 50. That'll change once Kunark hits and people will be able to buy characters without actually having been part of the gamepaly scene themselves first, so the change would make a tangible difference rather than now where the people who buy characters would probably not just be grouping with folks and being jolly good chaps if they didn't have the option.

[Nazran]

The amount of douchiness surrounding mmorpg's simply sucks. Just play the fucking game, quit trying to become the next Gordon Gekko of the batwing market.

[Henini]

Kunark wont make it harder to get to 50, it will make it easier, and the problem will be worst.
It will be worst because as you are trying to get your kunark gear, or exp your your main, plers will be occupying the camps and making it suck just like they are now. the difference will be that they will make it faster to 50 because there will be more hunting areas for those levels. then we will all bottleneck in seb...

besides, the whole debate is moot. it's not classic.

[HippoNipple]

I agree, we should end it but not right now.

I'm nowhere near end game, but it seems that a lot of the level 50s don't have anything to do.
If we stopped account selling now I doubt it would actually stop because it gives 50s something to do.

I say keep it going until Kunark hits.
It will die down then and take that reduced volume and decrease it to 0 by banning it.

Thoughts?


The thing is its not like all of the level 50's are making these characters to sell. Most people get 50 and explore content, farm plat by actually playing their level 50 char, helping out their guild, or if they make another character they level it themselves to actually play.

There are a few people who are flooding the game with these level 50s they make in a weekend by boxing or power leveling and playing 24/7.

There is 1% of the population hurting the economy and lower level dungeons for everyone. Not only that but a lot of the account sales receive real life money bids and are a risk to p1999 getting in trouble and shut down.

Its a liability to the server and the majority of the population, the people you actually want in the community, would all benefit from it being illegal. The only ones that it will effect in a negative way are the 1% that are so addicted they will be here either way. Hopefully they will just find something else to do that isn't so annoying to the rest of the community.

Is it completely destroying the game - heck no this server is still awesome, but there would be no real loss in making it a bannable offense tomorrow.

[yraapt]

If they prohibited it from being advertised on the forum or in /auc I expect it would eliminate the majority of it.

[purist]

If they prohibited it from being advertised on the forum or in /auc I expect it would eliminate the majority of it.

Eliminating the majority of advertising for account sales on mainstream channels != Eliminating the majority of actual transactions

[yaeger]

I'm assuming that each account has an IP address associated with it. Just lock each account to that IP address. Bam! No account switching/selling.

[username17]

X rmt account seller website here already has a load of project 1999 accounts up for sale on there forum for RMT

basically you wont be able to stop it if people want to sell the accounts for plat / items / real money they will regardless of who says they cant

best you let them do it here where you can monitor it rather than other MMO trading forums

Way to advertise Loneless. :(

[loneless999]

Way to advertise Loneless. :(

sorry i know stupid of me

[Muzyn]

I'm assuming that each account has an IP address associated with it. Just lock each account to that IP address. Bam! No account switching/selling.

Sure, won't affect me any, but atleast 98% of the population has a dynamic IP from their internet provider and won't be too happy.

[KilyenaMage]

Yeah it's pretty hilarious. And VERY clear that some players are in the GMs pockets.

I got suspended last night for "KSing" a mob....that I didn't even get the kill on. Couldn't loot the mob. It was Dvin in crushbone and some lvl 50 shammy (that i didnt see) was PLing a group of lowbies.

No questions asked....instant suspension. Hmmmmmmm.

[KilyenaMage]

The reason, I'm guessing, is that they don't have dozens of professionally hired GMs to deal with this sort of thing. It's not exactly hard to get away with buying a character, especially if you buy one that isn't well known (one of these hypothetical PL-to-50 deals), so they would have a lot of trouble policing it. Thus, instead of having the inevitable drama of everyone accusing everyone of being a purchased character, they allow it. Most of us, and I'm assuming the admins included, would prefer if it didn't happen at all, but it's unavoidable.

RMT has to be disallowed because it compromises the server since it operates on the sole premise of SOE not crushing EQEmu, something that hasn't happened because there isn't a real-world currency business involved. However, there hasn't been a server as hugely popular as this one before, and if RMT was to become widespread, SOE might start to take an interest. It would be hard for Nilbog to prove in court that they're not the ones making money off of character sales, especially because they very easily could. A private WoW server recently got sued for $80mil because the operator was offering in-game services of some kind for real money, and another classic EQ project (unrelated to EQEmu) was ordered to cease and desist by Sony one or two years ago despite not involving any kind of profit at all and not even being launched yet. I'm sure the p1999 guys want to avoid that sort of thing, even if they can't stop the much more common and more easily accessible plat-for-toons trades.

It doesn't matter if they're well known or not. Just get your hands in a GMs pocket then have them change the name of the toon you bought.

[KilyenaMage]

Hard to say unless they make a rule about it. I wouldn't mind if they do, but I also don't have as big of a problem with toon-buying as some seem to. I suspect it'll decline considerably in Kunark, though, because the 50s take so long that PLing through them is barely an option. By then, character selling might be reduced to people who want to actually reroll, and not people making a business out of PLing characters to sell them, if that in fact happens.

Actually it's going to INCREASE in kunark. The zones offer even faster xp from PLing, and the population is likely to increase as well.

Kunark makes many more classes top-tier, so classes like rogues, rangers, bards will be getting PLed.

Sure PLing 51-60 isn't gonan be viable. But 1-50 will be just that much faster -- as will gearing toons in planar gear.

[nilbog]

Yeah it's pretty hilarious. And VERY clear that some players are in the GMs pockets.

Just get your hands in a GMs pocket then have them change the name of the toon you bought.


As ridiculous as your statements are, trolling GMs is a no-no. I wouldn't recommend you do it in the future.