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View Full Version : Let's talk about natural progression here.


FadedVision
02-26-2015, 01:38 PM
To call this server natural progression is ridiculous. Sure, there were twinks here and there, there were wars over mobs constantly(much cleaner on live), and I even remember being called at work for raids more than a couple of times by EQ friends 2 time zones away(I did not own a cell phone, most didn't). This is not the same everquest. It has the same mobs, same names, and some of the same items... but the real difference is that you all have been stuck in this expansion for about 3x longer than you should have been. There should be new fresh content for you guys to explore and conquer. New dragons, new loot, and a larger variety of bosses to disperse this poopsock parade. Spreading the competition throughout other areas of interest and freeing up what should be old and "boring" content to new players so that they can experience the same joys you got at that level.

Leveling as a low level, you hear the bitterness. "guilds have naggy and vox perma camped with twinks." They know that they will not be able to naturally progress as they should. That is not "natural progression" and a GM should ban you for doing that. If you have to restart fear/hate when gods spawn, then you should have to do the same for dragons, restart your raid in WC's everytime. You have locked out content from newer players for years(I'm guessing) because you are greedy. I am sorry, when I was 60 on live. If someone wanted me to level up to 52 to perma camp naggy or Vox I would have laughed in your face and went on farming TOV, farming sleepers, AOW, Tunare, etc. The fact that you do not have anything better to do and that GM's have not disbanded this monopoly speaks to the fact that the GM's are either A) part of one of these guilds and enjoy the benefits or B) the GM's have absolutely no control over this game or it's ability to recreate the natural progression of the original game. This game is not kept with the essence upon which it was made. The live staff worked to keep things like this from happening, that is why you would be teleported away if you were over 53, because in the actual game you WOULD NOT STOP LEVELING YOUR CHARACTER SIMPLY BECAUSE IT KEEPS YOU CAPABLE OF CAMPING DRAGONS. You should be wanting to keep leveling to enjoy new content. Not reliving old and tired content because you are simply put, greedy.

The greed on this server is disgusting. People pay for power leveling, pay for epics(which are actually fun to quest on their own, try it), and actually roll NbG on epic pieces just to MQ them. Try doing the rogue epic, it's filled with greedy explicitive who are sitting around farming MQ's for 25k. Try actually doing that epic(which starts at 50 btw, meaning you should not be able to own one unless you are 50). It's just a bunch of rude people fighting over MQ's, choking off people who are actually trying to finish the epic. They are rude, mean, and greedy beyond measure.

I know that some people are going to flame me on here and I don't care. /rude

Erasong
02-26-2015, 01:52 PM
wrong forum.

Durka
02-26-2015, 01:55 PM
I am pretty certain many have observed this over the past few years since kunark has been the only thing to do on the server.

Walk away and come back when velious is out and hopefully the bumrush of poopsockers will be too busy with that content so you can enjoy kunark stuff. Can't be in 2 places at once! Sure, you may be upset that you cannot enjoy all of the velious content when it arrives. Wait it out - people get bored. Once its conquered enough times by uberguilds they will realize that is it...no more to conquer. Time to quit. There will be the many who roll numerous toons, gear them with the best gear and make a collection of toons. Those types exist in every MMO.

Just be patient man. Devs are trying and hate to say it, this is FREE. Why would you complain about something that is donation driven?

Ele
02-26-2015, 02:02 PM
This is a free server that is attempting to rebuild EQ as it existed. The length of the time line is due to the fact that this is a HOBBY to the devs spending their free time recreating EQ.

If you want natural progression, wait until all dev work is done and a fresh server gets launched.

Hate to burst your bubble about Nagafen/Vox, but in 2000/2001 uber guilds did level alts specifically to camp them.

Would you have everyone quit once they hit level 60 and killed each boss mob once? That way the next wave of players can experience the boss mob?

Swish
02-26-2015, 02:11 PM
Try actually doing that epic(which starts at 50 btw, meaning you should not be able to own one unless you are 50). It's just a bunch of rude people fighting over MQ's, choking off people who are actually trying to finish the epic. They are rude, mean, and greedy beyond measure.

Some of us care enough to block the MQers to help people get their epics <3

GMs don't get involved with this (I tried a petition once, they stay well away). I think they should to promote a more community friendly environment although its a big time investment checking up on spawns. In absence of that its down to the player base to help...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO7XDgo5JBo

I had people like Calabee (RIP) blocking me in Kaladim (http://i.imgur.com/XMfI2r3.jpg) and in Lake Rathe. Thankfully Liia let me go ahead of a MQ in progress so I'm paying it forward where I see it :p

Also for the record, I'm only redoing the epic because I want to hand in for my high elf mask :)

FadedVision
02-26-2015, 02:13 PM
It's free and so is complaining. League of Legends is a free game and people complain about it all the time, they patch and fix bugs constantly(just an example and I'm not trying to take you on).

I'm being critical to the players that maybe they will stop being greed mongers and to GM's that could see this statement and maybe say... "maybe rogues shouldn't be epic'd until 50" and ban the MQ or stop it in some way since it's more of an anomaly here than it was on live(by a large margin). This is a free server, decisions should be made to protect the integrity of the game. That would help both leveling rogues and keep the game more natural. I would gladly donate money if I was happy with the game.(keep in mind)

I do like this server and love the idea that they came up with, natural progression. That's all I'm arguing is that they should do more to ensure the natural progression. If daybreak does it correctly, I will pay them money to play their version, which they announced recently.

FadedVision
02-26-2015, 02:18 PM
BTW, that is great Swish. There is some honor among thieves.

captnamazing
02-26-2015, 02:33 PM
lol. this belongs in RNF.

Your point about fear/hate respawning is obsolete. In fear, we have bards kite the whole zone so it's irrelevant.

Also, I love the logic here "if you had told me to level an alt to 52 to camp vox/naggy I would have told you to fuck off and went on Farming ToV, etc etc" -> Complains about the server being greedy for farming

I have fun here, pal. Why you gotta rage so young?

maskedmelon
02-26-2015, 02:53 PM
The staff have made decisions to protect the integrity of the game. They have embraced the well reasoned principles of simplicity and objectivity. Their design goals are to recreate the classic mechanics and they remain objective in their implementation to avoid the inevitable ferris wheel of insanity associated with feeling based decision making.

There is no merit to any of your complaints because they only delay completion of the primary project goal. Once all code has been satisfactorily restored in its entirety, staff can (and I am sure will) devote time to what ought to be done to maintain the server.

Your argument of greed here is greedy in its own right. Whether your claim is on your own behalf or that of others is irrelevant, because either way you would benefit (either directly via greater access, or indirectly via the satisfaction gained via realization of your perverse notion of fairness) at the expense of others who have invested more (be the suppliers or purchasers of MQ.

I do not farm MQ, because I am fortunate to be able to play 10-15 hours a week. There are those who are unable to play that much and that can place epics out of reach for many. I may not be able to raid posky for 6 hours, but I can save enough money to purchase my epic over the course of a year of consistent play. There are classes that can make money significantly faster than I can, but you don't see me calling for nerfs to those classes because I chose not to play them.

The notion of fairness suggested in your posts is nothing more than subsidizing failure while penalizing success. It ensures that epics are reserved only for a select few, regardless of investment. Please consider this.

fadetree
02-26-2015, 02:57 PM
rage against the nature of Man,
rain falling into the ocean,
beautiful and useless.

harnold
02-26-2015, 02:57 PM
The staff have made decisions to protect the integrity of the game. They have embraced the well reasoned principles of simplicity and objectivity.

LOLed at this garbage

w1zard
02-26-2015, 03:05 PM
This is why instance zones became the norm in modern MMORPGs.

Yumyums Inmahtumtums
02-26-2015, 03:06 PM
GMs please move this to rants and flames so we can dogpile this shit thread

maskedmelon
02-26-2015, 03:16 PM
LOLed at this garbage

Just because they may have strayed from the path does not mean they have embraced any other principle. Their reluctance to remedy the raid scene is a perfect example. They strayed from the path there and new problems crept from the field they'd thought they cleared. The night vision need attempt is another example. They tried to implement a classic mechanic, but the hack did not function the same on all machines and so it was rolled back. I know there are plenty more examples of where they have failed to implement classic features while straying to implement non-classic ones, bit that does not mean their objectives are any different or that they are cherry picking. It just means they are human.

FadedVision
02-26-2015, 03:27 PM
Ok Ayn Rand, you can take your economics arguments back to your 401 theory class. I am here to have fun and enjoy the game, not argue Milton Friedman.

I will argue with the main point that you made, that if you have the money you should be able to buy what you want. Sure, non no drop items. That is a relevant point. Non-no drop items, such as epics. Which are made to bring guilds together and form a raid atmosphere that is the jest of a fun and enjoyable experience on the game. That is why epics exist and the idea that you can get one at level 1 is an exploit. You are not entitled to an epic, you pass a test. Just as you are not entitled to drive a car, you pass a test.

I am not singling the blame out at anyone. I am just trying to be constructive that a change in the MQ structure might be good for the server. Think of me as an opinionated beta tester stating my opinion. If you want to flame me, go for it. It doesn't mean my opinion isnt that of a large majority of the players and it should not be held in consideration.

Thatt
02-26-2015, 03:35 PM
... It doesn't mean my opinion isnt that of a large majority of the players and it should not be held in consideration...

I wholeheartedly believe you're wasting your breath, tilting at windmills, but I wanted to add my voice.. I agree that mq's in their entirety should be taken out of the game.

kaev
02-26-2015, 03:38 PM
This is a free server that is attempting to rebuild EQ as it existed. The length of the time line is due to the fact that this is a HOBBY to the devs spending their free time recreating EQ.

If you want natural progression, wait until all dev work is done and a fresh server gets launched.

Hate to burst your bubble about Nagafen/Vox, but in 2000/2001 uber guilds did level alts specifically to camp them.

Would you have everyone quit once they hit level 60 and killed each boss mob once? That way the next wave of players can experience the boss mob?

I recall Vox/Naggy being public raids on Tunare server. I've stopped believing that was much better than the L52 alt army crap of p99 and some classic servers after reflecting on it tho. The queue for frost/burned books for the Paladin epic was like 10 months long and you lost ground to others every time you missed a spawn. In that environment I never saw any point to even trying to get my epic on live. Here I camped the book of scale in EC and did the rest of the epic with the help of my guild.

On Tunare Ragefire was still near constantly camped long after the move to Skyfire, I remember helping random "good people" in non-raid guilds poopsock Rage during PoP era. There would always be a group capable of taking down Rage from some raid guild hanging about near his expected spawn time, but they usually would hold off if a mob of pubbies was actually there waiting for him to pop.

IOW, although p99 appears to have a higher density of poopsocking neckbeards than the live server I played on most, and there appears to be some additional toxicity due to the increased friction caused by all that additional poor hygiene jammed into the same sized space, it's actually not as different from live as the OP is making it out to be.

Ele
02-26-2015, 03:46 PM
You are not entitled to an epic, you pass a test. Just as you are not entitled to drive a car, you pass a test.

You don't get a car at the end of your driving test.

I am just trying to be constructive that a change in the MQ structure might be good for the server. Think of me as an opinionated beta tester stating my opinion.

Have you tried submitting a bug report?

This thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91574) regarding required levels to quest epic quest items has been around since 2012 with no clear resolution, since you can MQ epics before level 50 on the live servers and EQMac, when it was still up.

Please feel free to add constructive evidence one way or the other.

FadedVision
02-26-2015, 04:01 PM
You don't get a car at the end of your driving test.


Sometimes you do. Sometimes you get one before hand, you can't drive it until you meet the requirements though. That is the point that was lost, I think. Keep in mind, this is not an exact equivalent comparison. It is just the one that popped in my mind at the time I wrote the post and actually seems to be holding up fairly well.

Ele
02-26-2015, 04:04 PM
Sometimes you do. Sometimes you get one before hand, you can't drive it until you meet the requirements though. That is the point that was lost, I think. Keep in mind, this is not an exact equivalent comparison. It is just the one that popped in my mind at the time I wrote the post and actually seems to be holding up fairly well.

You only get the car if someone MQs it to you.

Humerox
02-26-2015, 04:12 PM
You only get the car if someone MQs it to you.

depends on the car. 1988 Chevy Chevette or Bentley Mulsanne?

Ele
02-26-2015, 04:20 PM
depends on the car. 1988 Chevy Chevette or Bentley Mulsanne?

depends on who is your daddy and what does he do?

maskedmelon
02-26-2015, 04:26 PM
Ok Ayn Rand, you can take your economics arguments back to your 401 theory class. I am here to have fun and enjoy the game, not argue Milton Friedman.

I will argue with the main point that you made, that if you have the money you should be able to buy what you want. Sure, non no drop items. That is a relevant point. Non-no drop items, such as epics. Which are made to bring guilds together and form a raid atmosphere that is the jest of a fun and enjoyable experience on the game. That is why epics exist and the idea that you can get one at level 1 is an exploit. You are not entitled to an epic, you pass a test. Just as you are not entitled to drive a car, you pass a test.

I am not singling the blame out at anyone. I am just trying to be constructive that a change in the MQ structure might be good for the server. Think of me as an opinionated beta tester stating my opinion. If you want to flame me, go for it. It doesn't mean my opinion isnt that of a large majority of the players and it should not be held in consideration.

I am here to have fun too, just as everyone else is. We all have our own ideas of what that is and it would be unreasonable to assume there is no variation, as I am sure you would agree . As it stands everyone is capable of procuring an epic given they invest enough (time being the relevant currency). What you propose would not only deny some people access to the epic entirely , it would also deny people of a source of revenue that they have gained access to through investment in their character (which is oddly what you aim to reward by limiting MQ).

In your driver's license analogy, you equate the epic reward to a driver's license and that is fine, but you should understand that there are hazards associated with operating a vehicle, the like of which are nowhere present our game.

Also, the analogy does not reflect the reality of the MQ situation in its entirety. To do that we would need to amend it such that only persons who's incomes exceed $50k a year (equating salary or rate of pay with EQ rate of play, or time investment) and belong to a church, fraternity, or other civic/social group may qualify to take a driving exam. That is more akin to how epic quests were designed. Player ingenuity however has broadened the market, by offering alternative paths of advancement via comparable, but more diversified qualification criteria. ^^ I think that is a beautiful thing.

What you are advocating would benefit none while harming others. As it stands everyone can attain their epic given sufficient work, just as anyone in the free world can drive a Ferrari given sufficient work. ^^

Swish
02-26-2015, 04:38 PM
No analogy fits.

The point is people should be able to do their epic free from people MQ'ing for profit imo.

Everyone hates that stance because it's become the norm for gathering tunnelquest tokens.

FadedVision
02-26-2015, 04:53 PM
I am not going to argue free market solutions in an area that should not be argued. This is a game to have fun, not a dissertation on capitalism in the world. I know you won't understand that, you will probably diagnose my idea of "fun" and weather or not it impedes others "fun" but I have done this dance before and I don't care to continue this circle jerk.

My last point is this, you could not auction MQ's on live or you would be banned, you could not auc PLing on live or you would be banned, you did not have cell phones because the cell phone did not exist during Kunark(for 90% of people), and on my server we did not farm the dragons w/ 52s. Perhaps you did on your server. Every server was different. There is a gluttony of riches on this server and those who run the mobs/spawns are basically winning the argument and tearing down/shouting down different opinions. That is probably why this EQ is full of greedy people, all the normal people left.

maskedmelon
02-26-2015, 05:22 PM
The population has been growing steadily over the past two years or so actually. As for having fun and not looking to debate economics, you are the one who interrupted our peaceful discussions of mmo food service seems, RMT, classic mechanics and keyboard macros with your cries for the fist of authority (not that it is all that uncommon) to aid you in purging our wavering community of the scourge of greed lest it consume us all and alienate the true of heart like you.

I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of calling for an end to 'greed' so that you can get something while taking from others when nobody loses under the current system. That's not greedy? If not, it is still malignant in one form or another. I don't think that is your intent though after having talked with you and hope you find time to think it over.

I think we've a fine community and we all get frustrated at one point or another, but taking from others is not the solution. Rest well, work hard and you will be happy ^^

Tenlaar
02-26-2015, 05:30 PM
you could not auction MQ's on live or you would be banned, you could not auc PLing on live or you would be banned
nobody loses under the current system.

At least you're both saying things that aren't true!

maskedmelon
02-26-2015, 05:35 PM
At least you're both saying things that aren't true!

Don't stop there! Elaborate ^^ Who cannot obtain an epic under the current system? Hmmm?

Paleman
02-26-2015, 05:41 PM
I am not going to argue free market solutions in an area that should not be argued. This is a game to have fun, not a dissertation on capitalism in the world. I know you won't understand that, you will probably diagnose my idea of "fun" and weather or not it impedes others "fun" but I have done this dance before and I don't care to continue this circle jerk.

My last point is this, you could not auction MQ's on live or you would be banned, you could not auc PLing on live or you would be banned, you did not have cell phones because the cell phone did not exist during Kunark(for 90% of people), and on my server we did not farm the dragons w/ 52s. Perhaps you did on your server. Every server was different. There is a gluttony of riches on this server and those who run the mobs/spawns are basically winning the argument and tearing down/shouting down different opinions. That is probably why this EQ is full of greedy people, all the normal people left.

its a fuckin game bro. Everyone wants to win. This game has contested mobs and other things that people race to get. Just like any game, you, and others compete to win and get the prize.

No one disagrees with your ideas of what fun is to you. Its just a fact that p99 isnt your idea of fun. If the majority wanted what you wanted then obviously shit would be different. Nearly all of this stuff existed. MQs always existed, and I never remember anyone getting banned for it. I Pled for plat all the time on live and never got banned. Hell at age 16 i scammed someone for 50k and never got banned. The GMs here are way harder on players here than on live for sure. As for batphones, those may have not existed but I sure as hell had a beeper during kunark/velious to do NtoV and other contested places. So the ability to do the same existed.

EQ is full of people, some even keeled, some are trying to game the system, some are tying to just irritate others. Its an existential representation of real life but with fantasy elements, mostly because it was created by people who existed in real life because last I checked there is no dimensional portal to a fantasy world on earth. If there was earth would be rather vacant.

even though I agree that the state of blue is sad, your arguments suck man. Its just a butthurt yell because you arent part of what you would do if you were at the level of others.

Ele
02-26-2015, 05:45 PM
My last point is this, you could not auction MQ's on live or you would be banned, you could not auc PLing on live or you would be banned, you did not have cell phones because the cell phone did not exist during Kunark(for 90% of people), and on my server we did not farm the dragons w/ 52s. Perhaps you did on your server. Every server was different. There is a gluttony of riches on this server and those who run the mobs/spawns are basically winning the argument and tearing down/shouting down different opinions. That is probably why this EQ is full of greedy people, all the normal people left.

Couldn't auction MQ and PL on live? People sold MQs and PL all the time without getting banned.

FadedVision
02-26-2015, 05:53 PM
I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of calling for an end to 'greed' so that you can get something while taking from others when nobody loses under the current system. That's not greedy? If not, it is still malignant in one form or another. I don't think that is your intent though after having talked with you and hope you find time to think it over. ^^

I really am enjoying the fact that you see an equal footing on someone getting their epic fairly vs. someone getting an epic handed to them at level 1 for plat. It is greedy to seek an epic through natural progression because it takes 25k away from someone who can't start the game naturally. Perhaps there are different levels of greed. I am greedy and a MQ is gluttonous and as a matter of a fact.... it actually stops people from naturally progressing. I believe that it is actually easier to get 25k and buy an epic than it is to do the epic quest. If you believe that is working as intended then you need to take off the rose colored glasses.

We have a difference of opinion and it shows a separation of philosophy between you and I. I do not see an equivalency in the slightest bit.

Tenlaar
02-26-2015, 05:59 PM
Don't stop there! Elaborate ^^ Who cannot obtain an epic under the current system? Hmmm?

People who are unwilling to step into the neck deep steaming pile that is the P99 raid scene, obviously.

maskedmelon
02-26-2015, 06:09 PM
We have a difference of opinion and it shows a separation of philosophy between you and I. I do not see an equivalency in the slightest bit.

We may, but that should not prevent us from reaching agreement. That is after all the spirit of debate and I would be willing to abandon my views if you substantiated yours. Thus far you have labeled things and given your opinion of what should be, but have not said why. If you don't have a reason that is fine too; just don't expect to persuade many :/

The simple case for MQ is this:
1. Affords access to epics to all players given comparable investment
2. Multiple players benefit directly
3. Affords characters alternative sources of revenue, easing other camp congestion.

Thatt
02-26-2015, 06:09 PM
Always amuses me how people will argue about what's wrong and what's right when neither are relevant on P99. The only thing relevant is what's classic. MQ is horse shit in my opinion, but my opinion doesn't matter any more than yours.. mq is classic.

maskedmelon
02-26-2015, 06:11 PM
People who are unwilling to step into the neck deep steaming pile that is the P99 raid scene, obviously.

What does that have to do with MQs though? I don't raid and can benefit just the same as someone who does. In fact without MQ those who don't raid would be worse off.

maskedmelon
02-26-2015, 06:23 PM
Always amuses me how people will argue about what's wrong and what's right when neither are relevant on P99. The only thing relevant is what's classic. ...., but my opinion doesn't matter any more than yours.. mq is classic.

This I agree with ^^

toolshed
02-26-2015, 06:48 PM
Ban MQs

MQs facilitate poopsocking of content that should be available to people leveling up for the first time on the server. By allowing MQs, the admins are allowing behavior that they are trying to discourage in the raid scene; instead of poopsocking the raid scene, people are poopsocking casual content and this is effecting casual players.

Swish
02-26-2015, 06:50 PM
Relevant or not relevant, the communities on live didn't climb over each other to get MQs during Kunark.

Be a pal and let the guy on his epic quest complete his part before you do your MQ.

Ele
02-26-2015, 06:51 PM
Ban MQs

MQs facilitate poopsocking of content that should be available to people leveling up for the first time on the server. By allowing MQs, the admins are allowing behavior that they are trying to discourage in the raid scene; instead of poopsocking the raid scene, people are poopsocking casual content and this is effecting casual players.

Some of the same people locking down MQs would then just become mercenaries and sell the looting rights or let it rot if people didn't want to pay.

beyondinfin
02-26-2015, 08:33 PM
Ya just can't beat fat, lazy, greedy, sad man children. This is what p99 end game taught me.

Ele
02-26-2015, 08:38 PM
Ya just can't beat fat, lazy, greedy, sad man children. This is what p99 end game taught me.

You can't kill what is already dead.

Faiding
02-26-2015, 08:39 PM
Levels 1-54 is good for enjoying the nostalgia of classic EQ

Levels 55-60 is good for doing a case study on how unemployed drug addicts/alcoholics play MMO's.

FadedVision
02-26-2015, 08:45 PM
I was mistaken. I suppose you did not get banned for MQing epics and PLing... I always thought that you did get banned for that. Then again, I never was much for peddling loot in EC or Gfay on my server. We didn't batphone or do the twink naggy/vox raids though. That I know.

I think that the MQ's weren't that big of a deal on live because folks just didn't do it to this extent, there was better stuff to do. It's like cramming a bunch of people in an elevator and expecting them not to fart on each other. It's too small of a space for that many people. I still contend that there should be nbg on epic mobs because that really wouldn't hurt the natural progressing character and it also would not cause a huge inconvenience to the MQer. I don't like MQing epics and I don't think you should be able to equip one till 50 but that's my problem. I'll silently begrudge them.

This thread is turning into a bit of a flame and I think that if we pull together we can probably salvage the good points from this debate and come up with a cohesive and working model that would be better than what is available now.

Eliseus
02-26-2015, 09:46 PM
Can't tell if Ele is serious or trolling.

Master Roshi
02-26-2015, 10:19 PM
the only thing that needs to be classic is the content imo. I'm not saying give us mercs, as that was a huge game breaking change, but adding shared banks and /lfg menu couldnt hurt this server. Keeping in globally known negative aspects of the game simply because SoE made the mistake and took +/-1 year to correct it is pretty ridiculous.

maskedmelon
02-26-2015, 10:55 PM
It's like cramming a bunch of people in an elevator and expecting them not to fart on each other. It's too small of a space for that many people.

I agree with this ^^ and would not be opposed to some sort of preferential treatment for players tryin to complete the quest in their main as younsuggest, because that should always remain an option ^^

stormlord
02-26-2015, 11:49 PM
the only thing that needs to be classic is the content imo. I'm not saying give us mercs, as that was a huge game breaking change, but adding shared banks and /lfg menu couldnt hurt this server. Keeping in globally known negative aspects of the game simply because SoE made the mistake and took +/-1 year to correct it is pretty ridiculous.
Not really, but if you're going on majority consensus, maybe, but p1999 isn't the majority. Even if you gave a vote, I think a number of the old features on p1999 would remain. That's because this isn't the EQ live population. If the Eq live population were here on p1999, they'd riot until it was shutdown.

It depends on the feature too. The problem is a lot of people on p1999 are not here just to play in the old content. You can do that on live and also get all the new features. Many people here are here either because it's free or because they like it. I think ti's 50/50. In terms of mechanics differences, some people like corpse runs and others don't. Some like there're no mercs or no POK portals or no luclin models or no boxing or whatever. Me, I liked the old eq gameplay on p1999. Yes, corpse runs, reduced functionality in-game maps (i hate the gps super maps like in EQ2), coin weight and an abundance of other differences. I'm not sure if it's those gameplay features you're referencing, but I'd imagine you don't like em. I have news for you: some people do.

I quit p1999 a few years ago, but not because of corpse runs or no in-game radar. I started playing on Wurm Online. And wouldn't you know it, it has corpse runs. For the first few years I was on there, there were no in-game maps. Items had weight and dropped on your corpse. No easy travel - not that I'm against that. I played on the PVP server which was FFA with limited protection by guards. Long story short, Wurm Online is more hardcore than EQ was, just with a lot more sandbox and better gfx. Anyway, EQ was also getting old. I mean, I remember telling myself "Gee, I need to move on. I can't be watching Fippy getting killed for the rest of my life."

I played on live last year. It's fun. For anyone who just wnats content, go to live. It's even free. There're downside to free accounts, but they don't really appear until 80+, but they're not game over if you're persistent. You can go up to 95 I think. The test server USED to be free, but I don't think it's anymore. The only other thing to mention is it'll be hard to find groups below lvl ~90. Yet most players are boxing and/or using mercs. If you're a player which wants to exclusivley play in old content and you want people to play with, you'll have to join a progression guild or play on one of hte progression servers. This is another case where p1999 has a advantage.

Yet with Eq live you're always going to find the same thing: a mediocre game. And that's true no matter what you're looking for. A lot of people only stay (or stayed) on live because of friends and nostalgia. That and it can be a big jump to move to another MMO after you're entrenched. Ya, it's easy to get into a modern MMO, but it still requires effort. For some people, especially busy people, they just stick with whatever they're used to.

BlkCamel
02-27-2015, 01:36 AM
I recall Vox/Naggy being public raids on Tunare server. I've stopped believing that was much better than the L52 alt army crap of p99 and some classic servers after reflecting on it tho. The queue for frost/burned books for the Paladin epic was like 10 months long and you lost ground to others every time you missed a spawn. In that environment I never saw any point to even trying to get my epic on live. Here I camped the book of scale in EC and did the rest of the epic with the help of my guild.

On Tunare Ragefire was still near constantly camped long after the move to Skyfire, I remember helping random "good people" in non-raid guilds poopsock Rage during PoP era. There would always be a group capable of taking down Rage from some raid guild hanging about near his expected spawn time, but they usually would hold off if a mob of pubbies was actually there waiting for him to pop.

IOW, although p99 appears to have a higher density of poopsocking neckbeards than the live server I played on most, and there appears to be some additional toxicity due to the increased friction caused by all that additional poor hygiene jammed into the same sized space, it's actually not as different from live as the OP is making it out to be.


Ahhh Tunare, THE GREATEST SERVER THERE EVER WAS!:D

fuark
02-27-2015, 02:54 AM
Levels 1-54 is good for enjoying the nostalgia of classic EQ

Levels 55-60 is good for doing a case study on how unemployed drug addicts/alcoholics play MMO's.

This is... surprisingly accurate

FadedVision
02-27-2015, 03:48 AM
After what turned into a pretty toxic thread we have almost come to an agreement among the followers that a nbg on rogue epic and that it would not impede the MQers too much. At least, between myself and Melon. Any way to have a real law created on this or is that a pipe dream?

katrik
02-27-2015, 04:51 AM
Good points on both ends, but people actually questing for their epics should absolutely get priority, and should be enforced. People hogging MQ camps over questers is pretty sickening.

Pint
02-27-2015, 05:24 AM
Can't tell if Ele is serious or trolling.

Some members are beyond reproach. Ele is a box god and can do what he wants, even if he is a tmo enabler.

86753o9
02-27-2015, 09:42 AM
So you came to a server named PROJECT 1999 because you wanted to experience newer expansions? :confused:

Swish
02-27-2015, 09:48 AM
I came here to complete my epic vs 5-6 other people MQ'ing for plat, I dunno what you guys came for :)

Man0warr
02-27-2015, 11:14 AM
If people were selling MQs of Rogue epics for 25k on Live people would jump at the chance to get those.

Yeah it devalues the epic accomplishment a lot but we have been in Kunark for a long time, same shit would have happened on live if they were without regular expansions.

In fact it had started to happen which is why they got rid of a lot of the bottlenecks during Velious (Undead Bard, Nortlav the Scale, VS Remains, Hate/Fear revamps, etc).

skipdog
02-27-2015, 03:32 PM
Always amuses me how people will argue about what's wrong and what's right when neither are relevant on P99. The only thing relevant is what's classic. MQ is horse shit in my opinion, but my opinion doesn't matter any more than yours.. mq is classic.

kaev
02-27-2015, 04:06 PM
Some of the same people locking down MQs would then just become mercenaries and sell the looting rights or let it rot if people didn't want to pay.

Quillmane cloak was totally this way on live. There was much saltiness about it, and some ninja-looting as well, but no intervention from on high.

stormlord
02-27-2015, 05:09 PM
It's strange but I like the corpse runs and lack of in-game map functionality and/or radar and other things like travel which isn't too easy or how players have to work together to really get anything good or even the training mechanics where the creatures will aggro together real-time. I could go on and on about things I like which many others don't, like maze-like dungeons, moderate amounts of traps or slippery floor and high cliffs you can fall off, wandering NPCS or shopkeepers which close shop, and so on. On the subject of limited soloing, it's a very hot topic with a horde on one side and a crowd on the other. I've read some good arguments the difficulty to solo actually made the game more enduring on a social level, since intermingling was required, although the popularity and convenience of soloing is huge. I mean, I oftne solo in games and prefer it over grouping because I can go afk whenever I want. It's really much better in EQ if you have a class which can feign death. BUT I won't deny I sometimes enjoy a challenge which I can't do alone. As well, if there's enough content for my soloing then I won't care about the content which requires grouping. For example, I played years in EQ and never cared about raiding, evne though raiders were doing 3x my dps and probably had 3x my hp at the same level.

Yet I never and still do not like how camping worked. The epics, for example! I am stridently against how you have to sit for hours at a site to get a drop. Or how you might have to visit that site at random intervals for YEARS to get it, without being able to advance the quest during that time. I'm certainly not against a quest which requires time to do, even if it lasts years, but it better have a good reason and it better no reward players who camp it 24/7. Anyway, the camping aspect of EQ is something I hate with a passion.

What's unforgiveable is EQ live didn't do epic 3.0 or 4.0. I will never ever get over it. Ya, EQ live introduced some involved quests, even the "2.5" aug, and some makeshift "epic" items in recent expansions, but nothing mirrors what we did with the epics 1.0, 1.5 and 2.0. If you omit the torturous camping and tweak some other things with some extra care, I think they could have done 3.0's and 4.0's, but they DIDN'T. The asss****** sat on their butts and did nothing. For me, it's like they no longer cared about their game.

One thing EQ live did right, imho, was all those aug quests and/or non-visible (charm) quests. Loved those. Not sure if they're worth doing anymore, as they might be replaced by cheap/easy vendor-buyables.

pasi
02-27-2015, 06:22 PM
Post of mine from 2013 since quoting yourself is super cool and this topic pops up every few months.

Curious as to what coveted mobs you think would be left up should MQs be disabled?

Realistically, you're looking at shaman, rogue, cleric, and monk epic.

The cleric epic is probably the only one of these 4 with contested mobs. Unfortunately, the removal of MQ'n will not stop people from killing Ragefire every 24 hours - his drop table is worth farming without selling the epic.

Unlike the cleric epic, the rogue epic is farmed for the cash from the MQ - Edge of the Nightwalker is really just a secondary reward here. Even with the amount of rogue MQs for sale, the mobs are on such a short timer that they're almost always up. I think I've sold 7 Rogue MQs and have had to wait for Eldreth once. Yendar is an 8 hour spawn, but he's usually up. He's also killed for his SMR. Nerfing MQs just means you sell loot rights to General. I guess if you would nerf Kedge Robe MQs along with the Epic MQs, you could stop most rogue MQs.

Monk epics are mostly sold via demon fangs. 2-3 hour respawn on the turn in mobs mean they're pretty much always up. The big thing is that Demon Fangs are sold as loot rights so the MQ change really only hinders monks from getting Immortals and Pipes MQd.

Shaman Epic - the tear is the entire quest. Again, you're talking about loot rights here. Nerfing MQ won't change tear sales.

Of the 4 epics that are sold, only 3 of them (monk, rogue, shaman) could not effortless switch to loot rights. The remaining 1 is going to be farmed due to Ragefire's loot table.

Basically, nerfing epic MQs doesn't impact the sale of MQs. Monk/Shaman/Rogue can very easily transition to loot rights and Ragefire will still be farmed for loot.

Basenji
02-28-2015, 01:10 PM
Are casinos banned here? I assume they are because otherwise I'm sure they'd be here shouting in the tunnel, and I've yet to see a single one. And in terms of game mechanics, they're at least as "classic" as MQ'd epics.

If you can ban casinos then you can ban epic MQs or loot rights. Take away the advertising channels and the market will slim down a lot. They'll still happen, of course, just like RMT. And they'll be a higher price. But it probably won't be so often that MQ sellers would be regularly interfering with legit questers.

I'm not necessarily saying it's the right move without more proof that this is a problem. But I'm certain that it could be policed effectively enough that there's really no reason to throw our hands up and say "welp, nothing to be done."

Swish
02-28-2015, 01:14 PM
Are casinos banned here? I assume they are because otherwise I'm sure they'd be here shouting in the tunnel, and I've yet to see a single one. And in terms of game mechanics, they're at least as "classic" as MQ'd epics.

If you can ban casinos then you can ban epic MQs or loot rights. Take away the advertising channels and the market will slim down a lot. They'll still happen, of course, just like RMT. And they'll be a higher price. But it probably won't be so often that MQ sellers would be regularly interfering with legit questers.

I'm not necessarily saying it's the right move without more proof that this is a problem. But I'm certain that it could be policed effectively enough that there's really no reason to throw our hands up and say "welp, nothing to be done."

They weren't banned, but then the RMT'ers were laundering plat through them so predictably that got stopped. Nilbog was working on a casino NPC, hopefully we'll see him appear sometime :)

Basenji
02-28-2015, 01:31 PM
How were they handled on live? I don't remember them ever actually being banned.

But I guess the same point applies to RMT. If you can ban RMT, then you can ban epic MQs at least as effectively.

The question is still more about whether we should. I don't think it's a valid argument to say that it's "classic" just because the game mechanics support it. The game mechanics also support kill stealing and griefing, but it's still not allowed by policy.

I believe that the goal is to make this server feel like the classic experience. Classic mechanics are the primary means to that end, but they are not the sole arbiter of "classic." The staff is. Everybody on the server has a different opinion of what that means, because everyone has a different story from live. Someone has to play referee to the shared story and ultimately make the decision about what counts. That's literally what a Game Master is.

Swish
02-28-2015, 01:46 PM
fwiw, Brad McQuaid responded to someone who played here (forget who asked him) and said that it was never intended for level 1 rogues/clerics/etc to be carrying epics around.

The fact that it was possible makes it classic... but I hate the MQ culture we've now got because of it, because people should be able to complete their epics unhindered and without needless bottlenecks.

zanderklocke
02-28-2015, 02:03 PM
fwiw, Brad McQuaid responded to someone who played here (forget who asked him) and said that it was never intended for level 1 rogues/clerics/etc to be carrying epics around.

The fact that it was possible makes it classic... but I hate the MQ culture we've now got because of it, because people should be able to complete their epics unhindered and without needless bottlenecks.

Samwise asked him.

Swish
02-28-2015, 02:05 PM
Thanks Zander, thought it was either Samwise, Heartbrand or Abacab :p

Messianic
02-28-2015, 03:57 PM
Stupid post. Too much whining about other players doing legitimate things that you have a preference against. Too much whining about a free service.

Clark
02-28-2015, 09:30 PM
Tl;Dr

Try leveling your character not writing short stories on the forums. :)

Toodles
03-01-2015, 10:40 AM
The staff have made decisions to protect the integrity of the game. They have embraced the well reasoned principles of simplicity and objectivity. Their design goals are to recreate the classic mechanics and they remain objective in their implementation to avoid the inevitable ferris wheel of insanity associated with feeling based decision making.

Wow what a load of white knight shit.

Get a dictionary so you can look up "integrity." Make sure it's got one of those sentence examples, so you can understand it in context.

Then drop by one of the 'summits'(coughakaareasonforSirkentoraisehistwitch channelprofile), and find out from them how Variance is a 'well reasoned principle of simplicity and objectivity.'

After you're done with that, have a read through the guild sub forum archive and provide us a few examples of 'objective' behavior towards the implementation of classic mechanics.


Free doesn't have to mean bad, and it furthermore doesn't have to mean bad attitude. A soup kitchen is free food for homeless people, it doesn't mean you can also disrespect them and then go 'hey stfu, it's free, so you can't complain.'

The reality is, bad decisions have been made and nothing is done to accommodate what the staff all knew would happen even before the server launched.

Hopefully the liveserver works out, because the variable of money will encourage Daybreak not to let the MAJORITY suffer(which constitutes all of the players who mare not happy about MQs, EPIC mob blocking and bot camping, the variance, three years of Kunark, exploits, RMTs, TMO, corpsing and every other issue we have).