Idea for Post Velious: Hardcore Characters

[Secrets]

Just had an idea for p99 after Velious: A ruleset for individual players called 'Hardcore Characters'. You'd flag at the Priest of Discord in any town by asking him to flag your character.

The rules would include:

-Can only flag at level 1, and all gear and spells in your possession would be deleted.
-Can't receive outside help with NPCs. The moment you receive outside help, you get a 85% penalty to exp gained from the kill.
-Cannot be buffed or healed except spells cast on yourself or by an NPC.
-Cannot accept items or money in trades.
-You cannot loot any items or money from an NPC if you did not kill it solo.
-85% exp penalty for the Hardcore Character upon entering a group.
-Corpses cannot be rezzed with this flag on.
-Exp Gain increased by 250% while following all of the above rules. (ie; if you join a group, the bonus is negated and a 85% penalty is applied)
-This flag can never be turned off.
-Characters would have a silver name while this mode is enabled.

There is an optional 'super hardcore' mode, all previous rules apply and:
-Cannot use the bank under any circumstances.
-All bags appear as non-bags to your character and will refuse to store items.
-Characters would have a black name while this mode is enabled.

Would you play something like this? I would.

[Tenlaar]

Would you play something like this?

Nope.

Also, you can pretty much play that way now except for the changed exp values.

[Clark]

Luclin, Discord, or wipe with shorter timeline would be my vote. :)

[captnamazing]

Why would this be good? It's just forcing soloing in a game that's supposed to be social. I would not play this as a warrior.

[Mentathiel]

This is not hardcore, this is masochism. Plus everyone would play monks...

Hardcore to me means one life, no respawns. Maybe disabling rez is a little extreme, but you should at least reduce the timer to minutes instead of hours. That would make things interesting, lying there in your corpse praying a cleric or paladin passes by in time and decides to rez rather than loot your corpse.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Hay how bout a new server call EQspinquest so u go in EC tun at lvl 1 and u stand at the ent and jus spin 1 million time and after it deletes ur toon??

What the fuck is with you people and "hardcore" mode?

The only server i will ever play is p99, possibly the new progression server on live if it manages to stop at PoP for a long time.

[myriverse]

Pfft. "Post-Velious." Riiiiiight.

[Master Roshi]

Make the name gold instead and I'll give it a whirl

[Varren]

I like the idea of hardcore mode w no outside help, but I would like to be able to group with other hardcore characters. Also, 250% exp bonus.

[SCB]

Hardcore to me always implied permadeath. I'd play on a server with the same rules, but with an EQ-style permadeath - corpse locked on dying and 100% xp loss (down to level 1, 0 xp) which can only be countered by a Cleric rez.

That would be a neat little project if the devs ever got bored with P99 stuff.

[Thulack]

Velious should get here first before we start talking about "Post Velious"

[SCB]

Forum posts about imaginary content don't slow Velious progression.

[sox7d]

I really like the idea of permadeath and had a great time a few years back when I believe the P99 staff made a short-lived permadeath pvp server. It felt very "walking dead" when meeting new people.

However, I don't see the point in making it so solo-oriented. Ideally with permadeath, I think that it should be on instanced servers/encrypted character names so when you die, you can't contact them and that's it, it's like you actually died. I hear people talking about playing this server solo and and without any twinking, and in spirit, I absolutely love it. But the thing is that EQclassic has very few rewarding/viable low-level quests and drops.


That being said, one of the most memorable gaming experiences I've had has been leveling a ranger, solo only, only self buffs and all gear quested/crafted/looted on Shards of Dalaya which has very fleshed out and novel early-mid game loot/quests/tradeskills.

Classic EQ is great, but I don't know how many people will be willing to do a 6 hour quest at lvl 35 so they can get a 7/26 weapon.


Also, I can't imagine the volume of "I LAGGED AND MY PERMADEATH CHAR DIED, PLZ RESTORE" petitions.

[mr_jon3s]

-Can't receive outside help with NPCs. The moment you receive outside help, you get a 85% penalty to exp gained from the kill.

People would exploit the crap out of this by trolling people to the point where they can't play a character from someone running up and touching another mob.

[stormlord]

Just had an idea for p99 after Velious: A ruleset for individual players called 'Hardcore Characters'. You'd flag at the Priest of Discord in any town by asking him to flag your character.

The rules would include:

-Can only flag at level 1, and all gear and spells in your possession would be deleted.
-Can't receive outside help with NPCs. The moment you receive outside help, you get a 85% penalty to exp gained from the kill.
-Cannot be buffed or healed except spells cast on yourself or by an NPC.
-Cannot accept items or money in trades.
-You cannot loot any items or money from an NPC if you did not kill it solo.
-85% exp penalty for the Hardcore Character upon entering a group.
-Corpses cannot be rezzed with this flag on.
-Exp Gain increased by 250% while following all of the above rules. (ie; if you join a group, the bonus is negated and a 85% penalty is applied)
-This flag can never be turned off.
-Characters would have a silver name while this mode is enabled.

There is an optional 'super hardcore' mode, all previous rules apply and:
-Cannot use the bank under any circumstances.
-All bags appear as non-bags to your character and will refuse to store items.
-Characters would have a black name while this mode is enabled.

Would you play something like this? I would.
I'm more in favor of hardcore-servers because it gives you more design freedom.

BUT if I absolutely had to make at an option on all servers, hmm...

First of all, what does hardcore mean? I think it means different things to different people. Popularly, people say it should mean permadeath. I disagree, very strongly. Few thigns in life are so shallowly defined.

For me, it means:
1) chain aggro (trains), pathers, varying aggro ranges, different chaining methods
2) maze-like 3d dungeons
3) only non-gps maps, no glowing paths, limited quest information shown on map
4) hybrid abilities - lots of abilities to employ to defeat or skirt around content
5) no (or very limited) scaled content - high lvl mobs often roam in low level zones
6) non-linear world layout - no golden paths, the game doesn't try to keep you safe
7) lots of traps and hidden hazards (cliffs, slippery floors, etc) in dungeons or in hostile places
8) fast travel is primarily player created - it's the mark/recall system
9) player is discouraged from camping or grinding one area by decreasing gains
10) sandbox elements in the world: players can build houses, villages and/or farms
11) lots of options to deal with death: rez, bind points, ghost, corpse run, etc
12) information is shown in the game so player doesn't have to play allahkazam
13) soloing is hard for everybody, even though they're all hybrid-capable
14) no fights are easy or tank&spank, often involving some kiting and close combat and other techniques
15) some mobs are smart enough to go after specialized classes like healers, so players don't always play the trinity-style - players have a mixed and specialized setup they can use with cooldown. So in one fight one player might be the healer and another the tank, but in the next fight everybody is mixed.
16) game is pause-able with no major penalties or costs - so if you need to go afk, do so
17) ...

Anyway, I think what makes a game hardcore isn't permadeath or huge death penalties. Rather, it's the manner in which you play. If you have to be alert and PAY ATTENTION and you must use lots of abilities and techniques to win then ti's hardcore. And if the world doesn't go out of its way to hold your hand, it reinforces you're in a world, not a game. That's not necessarily hardcore, but it's what I want to see in a hardcore game. I know many players like super powered maps and radars and dozens of windows showing/telling them exactly what's going on, as well as golden paths and hand holds, but I think those things make the world feel fake and separate.

yet I think the OP is onto something many players may potentially like. However, I fear the non-social outcome would especially not work in p1999. Many players like p1999 because it so heavily encourages everybody to group. I mean, many of us have seen how SOME modern MMORPGs have become a soloing contest, or, at best, grouping has become a silent zerg. Group ain't social when nobody says anyting and it's always 1000 mph. There's just something wrong with that. I witnessed it in DDO a few years ago. While I liked the soloing, since I do like to solo, the gropuing didn't feel social and so didn't give me what I needed socially.

[Nuggie]

If you build it, they will come.

[azeth]

Swing and a miss

[w1zard]

Just had an idea for p99 after Velious: A ruleset for individual players called 'Hardcore Characters'. You'd flag at the Priest of Discord in any town by asking him to flag your character.

The rules would include:

-Can only flag at level 1, and all gear and spells in your possession would be deleted.
-Can't receive outside help with NPCs. The moment you receive outside help, you get a 85% penalty to exp gained from the kill.
-Cannot be buffed or healed except spells cast on yourself or by an NPC.
-Cannot accept items or money in trades.
-You cannot loot any items or money from an NPC if you did not kill it solo.
-85% exp penalty for the Hardcore Character upon entering a group.
-Corpses cannot be rezzed with this flag on.
-Exp Gain increased by 250% while following all of the above rules. (ie; if you join a group, the bonus is negated and a 85% penalty is applied)
-This flag can never be turned off.
-Characters would have a silver name while this mode is enabled.

There is an optional 'super hardcore' mode, all previous rules apply and:
-Cannot use the bank under any circumstances.
-All bags appear as non-bags to your character and will refuse to store items.
-Characters would have a black name while this mode is enabled.

Would you play something like this? I would.

You spent all this time imaging this load of crap? It's simple. Here are your choices:

1) Wipe it clean like a baby's dirty brown hole
2) Continue on with Luclin, PoP, etc
3) Create new server with natural classic progression. Rinse. Repeat
4) Create custom content in spirit of classic

My vote is on option 4.

/thread

[indiscriminate_hater]

just wipe it clean, then we can all be hardcore

[Cobretti]

Just had an idea for p99 after Velious: A ruleset for individual players called 'Hardcore Characters'. You'd flag at the Priest of Discord in any town by asking him to flag your character.

The rules would include:

-Can only flag at level 1, and all gear and spells in your possession would be deleted.
-Can't receive outside help with NPCs. The moment you receive outside help, you get a 85% penalty to exp gained from the kill.
-Cannot be buffed or healed except spells cast on yourself or by an NPC.
-Cannot accept items or money in trades.
-You cannot loot any items or money from an NPC if you did not kill it solo.
-85% exp penalty for the Hardcore Character upon entering a group.
-Corpses cannot be rezzed with this flag on.
-Exp Gain increased by 250% while following all of the above rules. (ie; if you join a group, the bonus is negated and a 85% penalty is applied)
-This flag can never be turned off.
-Characters would have a silver name while this mode is enabled.

There is an optional 'super hardcore' mode, all previous rules apply and:
-Cannot use the bank under any circumstances.
-All bags appear as non-bags to your character and will refuse to store items.
-Characters would have a black name while this mode is enabled.

Would you play something like this? I would.

Secrets, you took this idea from Imperium Server that just got implemented, and put a spin on it from your MortalQuest server. It is a nice concept and I really like the idea.

Really miss MortalQuest, and Cast/Holocaust really screwed it all up back in the day with MQ2 warp R.I.P Marlboro

[Randy]

It would be funny to run around on a server like that just shooting arrows at mobs people are fighting so they lose all that exp. Hilarious.


Anyway, I like the idea of a timed lifespan. Ban PLing and have characters that eventually time out and return to level 1 with some or all of their gear.

[fastboy21]

Just had an idea for p99 after Velious: A ruleset for individual players called 'Hardcore Characters'. You'd flag at the Priest of Discord in any town by asking him to flag your character.

The rules would include:

-Can only flag at level 1, and all gear and spells in your possession would be deleted.
-Can't receive outside help with NPCs. The moment you receive outside help, you get a 85% penalty to exp gained from the kill.
-Cannot be buffed or healed except spells cast on yourself or by an NPC.
-Cannot accept items or money in trades.
-You cannot loot any items or money from an NPC if you did not kill it solo.
-85% exp penalty for the Hardcore Character upon entering a group.
-Corpses cannot be rezzed with this flag on.
-Exp Gain increased by 250% while following all of the above rules. (ie; if you join a group, the bonus is negated and a 85% penalty is applied)
-This flag can never be turned off.
-Characters would have a silver name while this mode is enabled.

There is an optional 'super hardcore' mode, all previous rules apply and:
-Cannot use the bank under any circumstances.
-All bags appear as non-bags to your character and will refuse to store items.
-Characters would have a black name while this mode is enabled.

Would you play something like this? I would.

I am for special rulesets, but I don't get this one. What's the hook here exactly?

Getting a 250% exp bonus for solo'ing doesn't seem hardcore to me. It seems like easy mode, even with the restrictions you mentioned. I guess it would be substantially harder for non-solo classes, but even then.

Not being able to accept rezzes? That's just weird. Its like being not able to accept ports or have your corpse dragged. It isn't hardcore mode its just slowing you down with an artificial and not fun time sink.

Anyways, I'm all for special rule-sets, especially temporary ones that don't impact the integrity of the server. I would be up for having a "GM event" with a rule-set like this where the first person to lvl to 60 received a reward of some kind, etc.

[maskedmelon]

I do not like his idea ^^ but then, I suppose it was not aimed at me ^^ Iam down with the 85% do penalty and even harsher death penalties, but the rest seems to turn the game into soloquest, gutting our beloved mmorpg of its mm.... ^^

[Lisset]

I'm sure after Velious is released, people will be too busy playing Pantheon II and Half-Life 4.

[kaev]

Hardcore to me always implied permadeath. I'd play on a server with the same rules, but with an EQ-style permadeath - corpse locked on dying and 100% xp loss (down to level 1, 0 xp) which can only be countered by a Cleric rez.

That would be a neat little project if the devs ever got bored with P99 stuff.

It's a video game. Using the word "hardcore" to describe a video game, its rules, or its participants, suggests only and exactly that the poster is delusional and needs desparately to reconnect with the real world.

[khanable]

I'm all for a challenge, but this honestly sounds worse than dark souls.

[SCB]

It's a video game. Using the word "hardcore" to describe a video game, its rules, or its participants, suggests only and exactly that the poster is delusional and needs desparately to reconnect with the real world.

Honestly can't tell if you're trolling. So... well done?

[kaev]

Honestly can't tell if you're trolling. So... well done?

I'm an old guy. In my youth I encountered the term "hardcore", and it was used to describe unusually dedicated Army Rangers and Marines along with most anybody who was Special Forces, SEALs, Air Force Search & Rescue, and select other crazies like Smokejumpers. It has always struck me as lame and utterly lacking in perspective to use it to describe a ruleset for a video game. The curse of a living language I guess, wannabes and marketers and politicians will corrupt anything and everything and the mob goes along thoughtlessly.

[SCB]

I'm an old guy. In my youth I encountered the term "hardcore", and it was used to describe unusually dedicated Army Rangers and Marines along with most anybody who was Special Forces, SEALs, Air Force Search & Rescue, and select other crazies like Smokejumpers. It has always struck me as lame and utterly lacking in perspective to use it to describe a ruleset for a video game. The curse of a living language I guess, wannabes and marketers and politicians will corrupt anything and everything and the mob goes along thoughtlessly.

That is literally the same meaning of the word. How are you not understanding this?

(People who prefer an easier-than-normal path) Casual <----- Normal ----> Hardcore (preferring a harder-than-normal path).

Is all the military circle-jerking draining the blood from your head?

[captnamazing]

Is all the military circle-jerking draining the blood from your head?

take your excess saltiness to RNF, pal