are warriors really worth playing?

[Topgunben]

I really see no advantage to playing the warrior class other than an exp bonus over sk and paladin.

The 6 hp per stamina vs 5.2 seems trivial. AC seems to be more important than HP, because healing spells are for a set amount and not % based.

Also, SK has lifetap line and Paladins have heals and LOH, among other things.

I guess what I am trying to get at is the warrior class doesnt seem to be more tanky than an sk or Pal. Warriors dont do more damage either. So whats the point of playing one?

I'm a newb to the game but these are my thoughts so far.

[khanable]

Evasive and Defensive

http://wiki.project1999.com/Sakuragi%27s_Warrior_Guide#Disciplines

These are your bread and butter, and the big reason Warriors trump other classes for endgame tanking. A Warrior with 4000HP and one of these disciplines will outtank a hybrid with 5000HP . . . easily.
Mobs hit for DamageBonus+DamageInterval*Rand(0,20). Evasive causes them to miss more, while defensive reduces their damage interval. What this means is that if mobs have a high DI but low DB, defensive is better, while if they have a high DB but low DI, evasive is better. There is an entire thread devoted to which discipline to use when, but as a general rule of thumb I suggest using defensive for mobs that hit for over 400 max.

[Kender]

warriors do more damage than sk and pally. they have higher offense and defense ratings (for now)

[HeallunRumblebelly]

lol. are paladins worth playing?

[Argh]

Warriors tank better and do more damage.

SK/Pal have better snap aggro.

SK/Paladins are better for raid trash or groups because of their easymode aggro. Warriors are better for tanking raid bosses.

[khanable]

lol. are paladins worth playing?

divine strength is going to be a welcome addition to all velious raids!

[mr_jon3s]

lol. are paladins worth playing?

Playing one and have only gotten to 20 but it feels like paladins get gimped on weapons choices compared to shadowknights.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Playing one and have only gotten to 20 but it feels like paladins get gimped on weapons choices compared to shadowknights.

Eh, baton of faith / sword of the morning are super cheap and good weapons.

[MaksimMazor]

Paladins are the shit

[ArumTP]

If you plan on being THE raid tank or among a collection of potential raid tanks in a guild, be a warrior. Just want to tank and level to 60, paladin/shadow knight is just great.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

More paladins

[Detoxx]

Nexona in 24s, 26k @1102dps --- Selkie 3k @158dps (10.76&PCT;) --- Fundo 3k @128dps (10.2&PCT;) --- Detoxx 2k @110dps (9.19&PCT;) --- Nixxar 2k @103dps (7.76&PCT;) --- Kloktor 2k @100dps (6.78&PCT;) --- Serpiente 2k @81dps (6.16&PCT;) --- Fillip 1k @108dps (5.31&PCT;) --- Kautin 1k @77dps (5.25&PCT;) --- Muiriol 1k @82dps (4.95&PCT;) --- Rotokan 1k @60dps (4.78&PCT;)

Dat DPS doe

[Ezalor]

basically sks/paladins are superior in every single way in an exp group

but warriors can actually put out respectable dps and they have disciplines that are 100% essential to raiding

apples and oranges really

[Pint]

lol. are paladins worth playing?

i hope you get stripped again, and by a paladin this time.

[Raev]

^^ salty paladin

[HeallunRumblebelly]

i hope you get stripped again, and by a paladin this time.

Iwas never stripped! :P Japan was using hte stone and didn't say anything. Bad form but not really malicious.

[captnamazing]

yes

[Pint]

Iwas never stripped! :P Japan was using hte stone and didn't say anything. Bad form but not really malicious.

damn, well theres a first time for everything i suppose

[Stormfists]

Detox what parser is that?

[Salahdin]

If u want to raid tank then warrior all the way. If you want to group tank then SK/pal dominate group tanking.

As a shm or chanter or wiz or rogue or monk or basically any thing that strips agro easy you want a knight tanking.

Oh those...Paladins are THE best group tanks due to their utility (healing/LOH) calm/root/enstill.

Simples.

Raid = warrior (or 3 person think groups)

Group = ( SK/pal)

[Topgunben]

If u want to raid tank then warrior all the way. If you want to group tank then SK/pal dominate group tanking.

As a shm or chanter or wiz or rogue or monk or basically any thing that strips agro easy you want a knight tanking.

Oh those...Paladins are THE best group tanks due to their utility (healing/LOH) calm/root/enstill.

Simples.

Raid = warrior (or 3 person think groups)

Group = ( SK/pal)

This makes sense since I never have raided and probably won't.

[Salahdin]

Warriors do more DPs and raw tank better.

But about the best utility you will get is a halfing war with sneak pull. But 8/10 raid tanks are ogres for frontal stun.

Knights level slower....and SKS more DPs but have more self utility ie invs/fds/fears etc.

[MaksimMazor]

Detox what parser is that?

GamParse (http://gambosoft.eqresource.com/downloads.php)

[Budder]

Good info. I just made a war. He's lvl 4-5. A guild mate (Dark Winter) is twinkling him out a bit. I look forward to Tanking in the future!

[Freakish]

If you like it, yes its worth playing.

[Ravager]

Paladin gear rots all the time, so go Paladin if you want free gear. Plus Paladin has the easiest epic of the three. Also, I hear Paladin's flatus doesn't stink.

[captnamazing]

can confirm warrior sneak pulling is OP

[Fysts]

Warriors are suppose to have 5% mitigation bonus over knights(no clue if implemented on p99). Sneak pull is nice, use it a lot on my warrior. SK is fun if you like pulling/soloing, but DPs of SK well below warrior. SK/pal miss a lot. Paladin, never played, just seemed to be worthless to me, no fun spells for my liking, though pallies can be good pullers with pacify. In the end be a monk, can tank, DPs, FD, and even tank a lot of raid bosses.

[maskedmelon]

Warriors are necessary for raids due to their 55+ disciplines. They also have higher skill caps at 40+ mailing them slightly tankier. All of this means precisely jack for groups. However warriors do offer better dps output.

Paladins are also vastly superior to shadow knights because they keep their armor clean.

Short:

Group/Solo/Raid OT: paladin/sk

Raid MT: Warrior

[maskedmelon]

Also, I hear Paladin's flatus doesn't stink.

'Tis true.


Except with regard to dwarves....

[Ezalor]

Iwas never stripped! :P Japan was using hte stone and didn't say anything. Bad form but not really malicious.

sweeping the time japan stole fungi under the rug

ezalor knows

[Taminy]

The 6 hp per stamina vs 5.2 seems trivial. AC seems to be more important than HP, because healing spells are for a set amount and not % based.


LOL

1. Complete heal

2. HP keep you alive against both spells and melee damage whereas AC does jack.

HP > Resists > AC. Serious.

[Taminy]

Warriors are necessary for raids due to their 55+ disciplines. They also have higher skill caps at 40+ mailing them slightly tankier. All of this means precisely jack for groups. However warriors do offer better dps output.


Just root the mobs in xp groups and you've given warriors "snap aggro". Yet they still tank better and do a lot more dps. Only thing you lose is utility.

[Not Sure]

LOL

1. Complete heal

2. HP keep you alive against both spells and melee damage whereas AC does jack.

HP > Resists > AC. Serious.

Not entirely accurate.

Hmm. Mitigation seems to be scaling pretty well within my means of testing it.

All data is a 60 Iks Monk getting hit by the same level 59 Crystal Destroyer in Velks (max hit 350, min hit 81) for roughly 10 minutes.

All AC values were with identical buffs (aego) and achieved by removing gear down to 877. To get below that I had to load up on plat to get some AC penalty going on.

1171 AC
--- Total damage: 32455 --- Avg hit: 186 --- Swings: 399 --- Defended: 100 (25.1%) --- Hit: 174 (43.6%) --- Missed: 125 (31.3%) --- Accuracy: 58.2% --- Dodged: 18 (5.7%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 67 (16.8%) --- Riposted: 15 (4.5%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

1070 AC
--- Total damage: 44798 --- Avg hit: 199 --- Swings: 481 --- Defended: 112 (23.3%) --- Hit: 225 (46.8%) --- Missed: 144 (29.9%) --- Accuracy: 61% --- Dodged: 17 (4.4%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 75 (15.6%) --- Riposted: 20 (4.9%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

969 AC
--- Total damage: 40925 --- Avg hit: 210 --- Swings: 447 --- Defended: 115 (25.7%) --- Hit: 194 (43.4%) --- Missed: 138 (30.9%) --- Accuracy: 58.4% --- Dodged: 28 (7.8%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 68 (15.2%) --- Riposted: 19 (5%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

877 AC (naked + aego)
--- Total damage: 45533 --- Avg hit: 229 --- Swings: 498 --- Defended: 142 (28.5%) --- Hit: 198 (39.8%) --- Missed: 158 (31.7%) --- Accuracy: 55.6% --- Dodged: 28 (7.3%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 92 (18.5%) --- Riposted: 22 (5.4%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

770 AC (naked + aego + enough weight to drop my AC that far)
--- Total damage: 45136 --- Avg hit: 246 --- Swings: 436 --- Defended: 103 (23.6%) --- Hit: 183 (42%) --- Missed: 150 (34.4%) --- Accuracy: 55% --- Dodged: 19 (5.4%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 66 (15.1%) --- Riposted: 18 (4.9%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

I will try out MotG or some other much higher level mob when I have the time.

[maskedmelon]

LOL

1. Complete heal

2. HP keep you alive against both spells and melee damage whereas AC does jack.

HP > Resists > AC. Serious.

No need to mock him for evaluating the info he had off hand. He may have been viewing CH in a more contemporary light with a 7500hp cap and not have realized such hp numbers were unattainable here. Or, he may not have considered CH at all.

As for the hp, the .8/sta really is a tiny difference. It is more pronounced with def disc, but still tiny compared to the hits you'd expect from a mob you would use that against.

You are also woefully off base on the AC argument, but even if you ere not it would actually be mildly in favor of the war due to higher skill caps and war specific Gear.

Let's not be so snarky ^^

[MaksimMazor]

Not entirely accurate.

Not classic

[Ezalor]

Just root the mobs in xp groups and you've given warriors "snap aggro". Yet they still tank better and do a lot more dps. Only thing you lose is utility.

this post reeks of a guy who super regrets not being a paladin/sk for that sweet snap aggro

[Taminy]

Not entirely accurate.

Disregards my point. Yes against a purely melee mob like that or against Vindi or something AC is great. But as I said HP is a more well rounded stat. AC doesn't do a thing towards keeping you alive against AoEs, nukes, etc. HP does. Of course you also want to strike a balance between HP, AC, and resists but to dismiss HP for AC is wrong.

No need to mock him for evaluating the info he had off hand. He may have been viewing CH in a more contemporary light with a 7500hp cap and not have realized such hp numbers were unattainable here. Or, he may not have considered CH at all.

As for the hp, the .8/sta really is a tiny difference. It is more pronounced with def disc, but still tiny compared to the hits you'd expect from a mob you would use that against.

You are also woefully off base on the AC argument, but even if you ere not it would actually be mildly in favor of the war due to higher skill caps and war specific Gear.

Let's not be so snarky ^^

Sorry. :p

But it's more than just .8 sta/hp because I'm 99% certain warriors also have more innate hp than knights. Otherwise a naked knight and a naked warrior would only be about 100 hp different and I don't think that's true at all.

As for my AC argument, all I said was AC only protects you against a specific type of damage (granted it is the most common type of damage) whereas HP keeps you alive against all types of damage. I never said you should walk around with a ton of hp gear with no AC on it. You should certainly strike a balance, but all things considered HP is most important. Plus it also protects you against damage spikes / bad RNG.

[maskedmelon]

Just root the mobs in xp groups and you've given warriors "snap aggro". Yet they still tank better and do a lot more dps. Only thing you lose is utility.

No, you've just decreased the healing or offensive capacity of one of the casters in your group, while having no assurance that the mob will not bee line for one of them on a break. Root can be effective, but also dangerous in that regard because the mob will attack whomever is closest to it for the duration of the spell, regardless of their position on the aggro list.

If you've a low dps group with lots of cc then, yeah you may want a war to tank for the extra dps, but in a situation like that, why not just get a monk or pet to take the hits? ^^

I am not saying warriors are useless in groups (they aren't), just they don't offer much of an advantage for their primary role.

[maskedmelon]

Sorry. :p

But it's more than just .8 sta/hp because I'm 99% certain warriors also have more innate hp than knights. Otherwise a naked knight and a naked warrior would only be about 100 hp different and I don't think that's true at all.

As for my AC argument, all I said was AC only protects you against a specific type of damage (granted it is the most common type of damage) whereas HP keeps you alive against all types of damage. I never said you should walk around with a ton of hp gear with no AC on it. You should certainly strike a balance, but all things considered HP is most important. Plus it also protects you against damage spikes / bad RNG.

I can't argue against the greater innate up since I've not heard of it and would be interested in seeing the ho difference of a naked 60 human war and a naked 60 human paladin. I might guess any perceived differences between average base war up and average base pal hp are racially driven since large races cannot be paladins^^ though we do have dwarves....

I can sympathize with the idea of hp providing a good buffer against RNG attacks lol. As an Erudite I crumble at a few back to back bad RNG. Hell, the other day I had Pain and Suffering take a couple swipes at me at half life. No joke lol.

[Jay F Kay]

Disregards my point. Yes against a purely melee mob like that or against Vindi or something AC is great. But as I said HP is a more well rounded stat. AC doesn't do a thing towards keeping you alive against AoEs, nukes, etc. HP does. Of course you also want to strike a balance between HP, AC, and resists but to dismiss HP for AC is wrong.

And likewise to dismiss AC for pure HP is also wrong.

And a quote from one of our Dev's on the upcoming velious fun:

General rule of tanking in this era.

AC > all. That should simplify things.

H

[Taminy]

And likewise to dismiss AC for pure HP is also wrong.


I'm not the one who started down that strawman route :p

But it's largely a moot point anyway as there isn't that much comparable velious gear that x piece in y slot has a ton of AC and no HP whereas z piece that also fits y slot has no AC but a ton of HP.