Current(3/1) Beta Patch Resist Feedback

[Colgate]

as a preface, the resist debuff bonus was removed, so tashanian is now doing -39 MR, malo does -45 MR/PR/FR/CR, malosini -60 MR/PR/FR/CR, etc.

THANK GOD

anyway, fucked around testing some stuff and here are my thoughts:

rogue poisons:

near-immunity threshold for muscle lock IV seems to be 90 PR. seems pretty good. with DMF basically everyone will be immune to retarded rogue snare poison rape. didn't get a chance to test blind poisons, though.

malosini:

near-immunity theshold for malosini seems to be 130 MR. resisted 16 out of 17 casts at 132 MR. a good change in the right direction, but malosini needs to be nerfed to where it doesn't land above like.. 75 MR, otherwise shaman/enchanter duo is still going to be insane even against very well geared players. make people cast Malo instead.

blind:

near-immunity threshold for blinding luminance seems to be 80 MR. should honestly be even lower, like 30 or 50 MR. blind should never be happening except against naked characters. it's a really retarded spell line.

root:

near-immunity threshold for fetter seems to be 100 MR. good change in the right direction from the previous 125(?), but it should be lower, like 80 or 90 at most. didn't test other, lower level roots.

shock of lightning and chaotic feedback:

landed 3 out of 10 chaotic feedbacks on a target with 151 MR, then tashed them, brought them to 112 MR, and like 30 chaotic feedbacks in a row landed. had similar results with shock of lightning. awesome change. maybe raise the near-immunity threshold even higher; i felt they should have been landing more than ~20-30% of the time at 151 MR. making spells like these land go a long way in helping out casters. didn't get a chance to test the other spells that fall in this category, like poison bolt, furor, brusco's bombastic bellow, etc. but i assume they work similarly. cool shit overall.

bard chants:

these are still unresistable. had 159 FR, tuyen's chant of flame landed like 10 out of 10 times. i was making sure to let the DoT completely fade as not to skew the results due to the -FR modifier that it has on it. these probably shouldn't be landing at anything above like.. 100 of their respective resist. this includes tuyen's chant of flame, tuyen's chant of frost, fufil's curtailing chant, and angstlich's assonance.

melee channeling:

seems to be fixed. pras.

poison/disease DoTs:

landed 9 out of 9 bane of nifes at 154 PR. needs to resist pretty much every single time at that point. shouldn't be landing above like 90 or 100 PR imo.



would like to know what else was patched in tho

[Haynar]

I did not mess with chants yet.

Poison/Disease dots also need work.

H

[Smedy]

good write up, very excited to see this go live on our server, i can't stand this blind pvp bullshit

pras staff for doing the dirty work

[Ragnaros]

Bards will be pretty useless without unresistable chants since dirge and bard stuns got taken out of the game
I agree with everything else Colgate said, keep up the good work

[RIP The Jacka]

great work cgate

[Technique]

The 1.5x resist debuff mod needs to go live with velious, even though it was originally 5 months in.
Resist-debuffs will do 1.5 times their normal value for PvP encounters. In other words, if the spell did -60MR in PvP before, it does -90MR in PvP now. PvE (combat versus NPCs) remains unaffected.http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010531.html

i felt they should have been landing more than ~20-30% of the time at 151 MR. making spells like these land go a long way in helping out casters.Chaotic feedback (can't speak for the others) should be landing like 98% of the time at that MR. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1575053&postcount=237)

[Nirgon]

Bards will be pretty useless without unresistable chants since dirge and bard stuns got taken out of the game
I agree with everything else Colgate said, keep up the good work

Being able to cast golem wand/pumice while running not so useless imo.

Actually applying resist songs and ranging spells without running too far is something a lot of bards are lacking here.

I agree with many bards here will have trouble coping without unresistable dots, but that's the player not the class.

Blind shouldn't even hit on 50mr+ targets =). It's not just the problem of it landing on higher MRs, its also a very quick, low mana spell to spam.

Bane/EBolt should be 120 resist range and pretty easy 90+. 160 or w/e just way too high of a requirement for something fast that can be blocked with envenomed breath.

Shamans will still be pretty godly with torpor + disease stacking + keeping pet on top of someone. Bashes that stun are murder.

~80 for rogue poison is good. It's just a snare that has the added advantage of being poison based. Malo + rogue poison should be fine synergy but a bit too stronk atm.

I'll click around on beta asap.

Most of all, thank you Haynar, you definitely didn't have to do any of this and we really needed it.

[Haynar]

I havent done much lately. Still some spell lines needing work. Will try to do one more set of spell tweaks before velious. Trying to stay away from major code changes til release. Just doing cleanup.

H

[Nirgon]

pure tone with unresistable bard dots.. =)

[Lasher]

Hit box?
Z axis?

2hb bonus for velious?

[Technique]

pure tone with unresistable bard dots.. =)
57/tick vs. 49/tick with selo's drums :rolleyes:

[Nirgon]

57 a tick

3 chants

171 total per tick, doesn't require melee hit box skillz (we'll pretend no melee and just drum here even though puretone makes it max skill of every instrument regardless of what is equipped)

Average caster got about ~2khp (speaking for buffed non raid gear chums), pure tone lasts 2mins

glhf when he's dipping in and out of range applying this shit, you are pretty fucked.



So in addition to bard being a total game changer/nigh unkillable without another bard or making a major mistake (outdoors), they also become unbeatable 1v1 and not just from a "you can't kill me" standpoint

Sounds not good

:rolleyes:

[Technique]

No shit, my point was that puretone is irrelevant. If you can't resist the chants you're going to die regardless, it'll just take a few seconds longer.

[Colgate]

Hit box?
Z axis?

2hb bonus for velious?

i think the hitbox is fine personally for X/Y axes, but the Z axis is really really tiny atm to the point of hilarity. classic approach is for there to be no Z-axis range check on melees/spells, last i heard about this was something like haynar tried it and it kept giving "too far away" message spam so he scrapped it, but i'd much rather live in a world where we get a false error message spammed rather than the Z-axis being pretty fucked.

eager to see if the 2 hand damage bonus will go in

[Lasher]

Most people i have talked to that played live pvp say " hit box good but its smaller than live"

Its loads better than what it was before but increasing it would put it even closer to live like

[Smedy]

Bards will be pretty useless without unresistable chants since dirge and bard stuns got taken out of the game
I agree with everything else Colgate said, keep up the good work

this just made my head explode.. so bards are useless unless they can unresistable chant you to death? yeah cause chants is the thing that makes bards useful in pvp

jesus ragnaros

bard chants were never unresistable on live, yet they were one of the top classes for pvp in velious, take a guess

[RIP The Jacka]

please apply to red live

getting malo rooted blinded within 12 seconds time in end game gear has ruined the spirit of everquest

[derpcake]

bard chants were never unresistable on live, yet they were one of the top classes for pvp in velious, take a guess

Best info on when bard chants were used: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/BotB.php People didn't actually use chants in velious, other shit is way better and more reliable.

I'm jelly of that bard :p

[Nirgon]

I'm jelly of that bard :p

Yah but he didn't get this like our RZ team captain did for test of tactics

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=56973

Thing is fuckin' ill =)

[Nirgon]

Correction Thott may have had dis weapon

[dis_mornin]

Great thread. Would also like to see 2h dmg bonus.

[Technique]

// Sep. 19, 2000 until Oct. 8, 2001, delay adjustments.http://codepad.org/NjMM455H

Not happening.

[Lasher]

It will go in. Maybe not day one. The 2hnd damage upgraded weapons are already in and i believe thats the same patch

[Crazycloud]

As a bard main i would also like to see bard chants resistable again. I would like to know the resist line on when these starts to resist. My memory is def off on bard chants from classic so I wouldn't know if they were easily resistable or not. I was too busy making sure i would resist snares/roots.

[Haynar]

I have the spells all picked out that I will update resists on, including bard chants. Hope to get it done today or tomorrow.

H

[Colgate]

thanks haynar, u da bess

[lite]

Bard Dots need to remain unresistable.

[Lasher]

Need vs want

[RIP The Jacka]

Bard Dots need to remain unresistable.

?

[lite]

Even with unresistable dots people can still easily make it to zone lines. This only covers 2 of the bard's 5 dots.

Denon's is 50 PR treshhold
lvl 60 Dot is still resistable
MR Chant is VERY resistable.

So let's keep focus on the fact that NOT all the bard dots are currently unresistable.

Bards will have very little ability to generate pressure going forward.

Prior to these changes we've seen many videos where an iksar with a fungi outregens bard twisting dots.

Bards have no damage output without unresistable dots.

This change was fitting, as it didn't impact large scale PVP and made the bard be able to actually have a decent fight VS a geared target.

Prior to unresistable (2)dots, if you encountered a VP type geared enemy with decent resists. You basically knew it wasn't gonna be going anywhere.

Let's stay focused here.. it takes a great deal of effort to keep these 2 dots up. It's not like you are planting a bane , breath of ro, or winged death. You are planting a dot that does minute damage and is over in 3 ticks. The only way that you can make something out of it, is by remaining evasive and still managing to twist it, while swapping to the proper instrument. These chants are FAR from a freebie.

Melee should not be a bard's only viable method of damage, and that's where you stand without at least 2 unresistable dots.

[heartbrand]

Even with unresistable dots people can still easily make it to zone lines. This only covers 2 of the bard's 5 dots.

Denon's is 50 PR treshhold
lvl 60 Dot is still resistable
MR Chant is VERY resistable.

So let's keep focus on the fact that NOT all the bard dots are currently unresistable.

Bards will have very little ability to generate pressure going forward.

Prior to these changes we've seen many videos where an iksar with a fungi outregens bard twisting dots.

Bards have no damage output without unresistable dots.

This change was fitting, as it didn't impact large scale PVP and made the bard be able to actually have a decent fight VS a geared target.

Prior to unresistable (2)dots, if you encountered a VP type geared enemy with decent resists. You basically knew it wasn't gonna be going anywhere.

who cares? this isn't a custom server, it's Project 1999. Can we keep this on point please to making this classic. Bard DOTs rarely landed on live. We're not here to balance class strengths a la Warcraft. Go play Arenas if that's what ur here for.

[RIP The Jacka]

Even with unresistable dots people can still easily make it to zone lines. This only covers 2 of the bard's 5 dots.

Denon's is 50 PR treshhold
lvl 60 Dot is still resistable
MR Chant is VERY resistable.

So let's keep focus on the fact that NOT all the bard dots are currently unresistable.

Bards will have very little ability to generate pressure going forward.

Prior to these changes we've seen many videos where an iksar with a fungi outregens bard twisting dots.

Bards have no damage output without unresistable dots.

This change was fitting, as it didn't impact large scale PVP and made the bard be able to actually have a decent fight VS a geared target.

Prior to unresistable (2)dots, if you encountered a VP type geared enemy with decent resists. You basically knew it wasn't gonna be going anywhere.

Let's stay focused here.. it takes a great deal of effort to keep these 2 dots up. It's not like you are planting a bane , breath of ro, or winged death. You are planting a dot that does minute damage and is over in 3 ticks. The only way that you can make something out of it, is by remaining evasive and still managing to twist it, while swapping to the proper instrument. These chants are FAR from a freebie.

bard = support class
selos + resist songs

sorry that r99 is your first ever experience with the game but you are very misinformed

also, every bard chant is unresistable, angstalichs screech or w/e is unresistable, do you even play bard? everything in this post is wrong

[lite]

also, every bard chant is unresistable, angstalichs screech or w/e is unresistable, do you even play bard? everything in this post is wrong

That is incorrect.

[RIP The Jacka]

lol ok

do you even play bard?

= no

[lite]

who cares? this isn't a custom server, it's Project 1999. Can we keep this on point please to making this classic.

Plenty of things here are kept non classic in order to improve the server. Don't know where you are going with this.

[lite]

I am new to these pvp bug forums, so please update me if trolling is allowed. Rip the Jacka's behavior is a bit misleading and detrimental to actual meaningful dialogue towards improving an issue.

For staff (Only Fire and Cold Dots are unresistable.)

[RIP The Jacka]

I am new to these pvp bug forums, so please update me if trolling is allowed. Rip the Jacka's behavior is a bit misleading and detrimental to actual meaningful dialogue towards improving an issue.

For staff (Only Fire and Cold Dots are unresistable.)

Your accusing me of trolling because I countered your biased comment to keep bards an offensive class with unresistable spells?

Sorry, but in game on red99 live, fire cold AND angstalichs are all unresistable.

Don't be a baby and stop trying to manipulate.

Since you've apparently never seen the pvp bug section before, I encourage you to look at all of the classic evidence that exists here regarding Bards and PvP. If you still think they should behave the way you want them to, find evidence to support it, that's how it works here.

[lite]

Sorry, but in game on red99 live, fire cold AND angstalichs are all unresistable.

Originally you were saying ALL chants are unresistable. That includes the magic chant which is absolutely resistable, so you were incorrect regarding that. I am glad you've now changed your original statement to reflect that.

Angstalichs can be resisted, that's just something you are flat out incorrect about.

Who is your bard on red 99 exactly ? I have people resist this all the time and I am the most seasoned bard on red99.

[lite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBEPUOiLcfo

Please become better informed before making inaccurate statements. This back and forth was super unnecessary.

With it being settled that Anglich is in fact resistible. I will say that it should be a little more difficult to land than the way it is right now.

[heartbrand]

Plenty of things here are kept non classic in order to improve the server. Don't know where you are going with this.

What has been changed outside of clickies in PvP to "balance" PvP beyond what was classic?

[RIP The Jacka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBEPUOiLcfo

Please become better informed before making inaccurate statements. This back and forth was super unnecessary.

With it being settled that Anglich is in fact resistible. I will say that it should be a little more difficult to land than the way it is right now.

haha, o my bad, it resisted once at 230 but landed once at 193

"totally unnecessary back and forth"

thanks for research

[lite]

thanks for research


NP. 30 mins ago you were shouting at me about how I have never played EQ and know nothing about bards, for absolutely no reason. Now you are enlightened and have found out every claim I told you you were incorrect about was true.

I hope in the future you will reconsider coming at someone with an RNF approach on the bug forums, and I can lead you to correct data in a more civil way.

[Nirgon]

All the clickies should be usable minus Trak Tooth

It is the only item that they removed a click from in the EQ time line as far as I know, and for good reason when it became mass abused

Its like item recharging. It wasn't of wide spread use classic thru Velious, and later when it became abundantly clear it was ruining the game (imo literally) it was changed.

As far as resist rates on spells? Do not make anything custom, we're here for classic.

Bards are fucking strong enough, are you kiddin' me!? lol.

They insta poof pets and when correctly implemented can double stack resist magic/lava shield on people. They will be more than strong enough with occlusion and insane AC/resists (resists even without songs) with Velious gear.

You know how high of a damage shield a bard can get in Velious? Yes?

Push for bard stacking being implemented (its classic, and hi to you bards with tash orbs) not for custom resists for lure of bard dot.

[RIP The Jacka]

NP. 30 mins ago you were shouting at me about how I have never played EQ and know nothing about bards, for absolutely no reason. Now you are enlightened and have found out every claim I told you you were incorrect about was true.

I hope in the future you will reconsider coming at someone with an RNF approach on the bug forums, and I can lead you to correct data in a more civil way.

what? im not enlightened, you countered my "unresistable angstichs" with "lands at 193 mr"

good job for that

plz stop trolling bug forums now, find more live proof of every other comment

[lite]

what? im not enlightened, you countered my "unresistable angstichs" with "lands at 193 mr"

good job for that

plz stop trolling bug forums now, find more live proof of every other comment

You were also claiming the MR chant is irresistible, which was 100% false but now you chose to pretend didn't happen. Stop trying to save face.

[Nirgon]

Tash stacking from bards (etc) is better than what you are asking for and classic

Knock it off!

[lite]

Tash stacking from bards (etc) is better than what you are asking for and classic

Knock it off!

No offense, but I don't view you as a PVP authority to take advice from you. I am simply stating my observations as one of the most seasoned PVPers on red99. Some moves this server has made that were not classic, were some of the best that have been implemented.

I am just putting out my bard PoV for when devs want to make changes and they are seeking a credible source.

[RIP The Jacka]

Credible sources are forum posts and pictures around 1999-2001.

When did you start pvping as a bard? On red 99 2013?

Plz provide anecdotes and proof from the classic era.

[Nirgon]

You should definitely have taken my advice bud and much earlier lol

Best of luck to Emperor Haynar bringing classic EQ back to the MMO scene

[heartbrand]

No offense, but I don't view you as a PVP authority to take advice from you. I am simply stating my observations as one of the most seasoned PVPers on red99. Some moves this server has made that were not classic, were some of the best that have been implemented.

I am just putting out my bard PoV for when devs want to make changes and they are seeking a credible source.

What? What changes have been made to PvP here other than to clickies, that has been made in the name of "balance", that is in direct contradiction to classic 1999 mechanics?

[Colgate]

why does lite act like he's the authority on how to play a bard?

he got 3rd place out of 4 at the best of the best

saying the hardest-to-kill class should also be one of the strongest classes offensively is one of the most chortleworthy things i've read in a long time

[Lasher]

Bards dont need the unresitable chants to be one of the best classes if played well. I cannot blame lite for liking that his chants are unresistable. I loved when mighty strike cripple did more dmg.

I do think bard songs need to zone. I cant find any patch notes about it but I know at least some songs would zone with you on live.

[lite]

why does lite act like he's the authority on how to play a bard?

he got 3rd place out of 4 at the best of the best

saying the hardest-to-kill class should also be one of the strongest classes offensively is one of the most chortleworthy things i've read in a long time

Bringing up BoTB, when you arleady admitted the only reason you won one of your matches was due to Iksar regen. In addition to that, you've already expressed the deep disadvantage I was at gear wise due to dumb denons resists. Stick to RNF for opinion swapping silly stuff.

Let's stick to making the server better.

[lite]

Bards dont need the unresitable chants to be one of the best classes if played well. I cannot blame lite for liking that his chants are unresistable. I loved when mighty strike cripple did more dmg.

I do think bard songs need to zone. I cant find any patch notes about it but I know at least some songs would zone with you on live.


Unresistable might be a bit over the top, but the resist rates prior to the last patch made chanting people practically not an option. Pretty sure Jibeknn outregened Tune's dots with Iksar + Fungi and his gear was nothing special at the time. Absolutely needs to be looked over.

[Crazycloud]

Bards will be in a perfect state even after chant resist nerf is fixed. Are you seriously crying about dps on a bard? rly?

Bard DA should zone with you, that would be a lovely fix.

[Colgate]

bard songs zoning with you would be cool

i don't remember if they did during kunark/velious, but i distinctly remember them doing so in luclin(used to make sure to selo's accelerating chorus before zoning into an indoor dungeon)

selo's accelerando is supposed to overwrite root as long as you already had selo's when you got rooted for at least a few months into velious, would also be a cool classic change

[RIP The Jacka]

2 min selo (?) a diff spell/part of timeline?

[Ragnaros]

Naw tune spanked that ass

[derpcake]

Historically bards have always been a class that everyone thinks is strong as fuck, probably overpowered, except noone plays them because they aren't and they a pain to play.

I wasted 13k posts on eqlive on just that.

[Nirgon]

Resist magic should work 3x as well on pets, tis classic

NPCS including pets with resist magic on them should be nearly impossible to root, let alone keep rooted and very hard to charm too

bonus points if mage epic pet can be made nigh immune to magic with resist magic, it also needs to be defaulted to ~runspeed 2 (AA) speed

unsure if this can be made possible

[Colgate]

2 min selo (?) a diff spell/part of timeline?

luclin spell

[Darksinga]

Been dabbling a bit recently and kind of bummed with the bard changes.

Like Rag said your major stun/dirge never seem to land any more and with epic your highest melee hit seems around 40ish lol.

Also have no reliable cc any more with change to denons and high sun Nerf (not classic.)

If you tweak dots too much all bards will be are full support drum speed/resists/pell bots. Not saying dots shouldn't be altered but be careful not to make them void or bard will be even worse off. You got survivability but the kill potential in comparison to a year ago is pretty bad. Explains why most main bards have rerolled monks/rogues.

PS is rogue DMG getting looked at before Velious drops?

[Colgate]

bards were not unstoppable killing machines in classic

sorry that the best support class in the game isn't good enough for you

[Haynar]

PS is rogue DMG getting looked at before Velious drops?
I am working on some new AC mitigation curves for takp. They are highly likely to go onto red too. At least for pvp.

H

[Littlegyno 13.0]

I am working on some new AC mitigation curves for takp. They are highly likely to go onto red too. At least for pvp.

H

pras u king haynar.

[Lasher]

big things for halfling warriors

[Smedy]

I am working on some new AC mitigation curves for takp. They are highly likely to go onto red too. At least for pvp.

H

pras! very exciting news

[Ragnaros]

yes nerf rogues i dont play one anymore
and i highly disagree about what has been said about bards in this thread, bards were in their prime in velious and although i was in my teens during velious, i did have a 60 necro and i disctinctly remember bards being power houses, especially 1v1, and ESPECIALLY with puretone, if you watched the botb with thott, most of his fights ended fast because he was able to burn his opponent down with consistent damage. bard are nowhere near suposed to have burst and damage like wizards,monks, and rogues obviously but they did have consistent damage, that was actually decently high with discs. I honestly would say to keep the chants, they arent that gamebreaking, i literally ran from the entrance of vp to xygoz layer being fully chanted by lite and survived, + you can pell the dots. so imo keep chants the way it is, its the only thing they have offensively atm, or you could take chants away but give back stuns+dirge, bard are fine tbh

[Nirgon]

He was using cords of dissonance in the fight which I remember being very hard to resist. Other chants? I resisted them pretty easily if I had my blue diamond shit on in Velious.

Bards need their uber classic stacking powers, only Box Emperor Haynar (recently promoted) can bring that to p99.

[Marqus]

Has anyone tested the mage dot?

[Jeni]

blind:

near-immunity threshold for blinding luminance seems to be 80 MR. should honestly be even lower, like 30 or 50 MR. blind should never be happening except against naked characters. it's a really retarded spell line.


Yeah I would love to never get blinded as well but 30 mr is the default for Dwarves so I hope no one takes you serious.

[Nirgon]

Ghoul root was linked with prof to be 50-60 threshold (I agree)

Blind was easier to resist than root/ghoul root

That's how da game worked

[Jeni]

http://i.imgur.com/lRhVMT1.jpg

[Colgate]

i would be fine with blind landing on naked players who get tashed or malo'd

[LostCause]

need more proof then word of mouth.

[Buhbuh]

bard are support above anything else, plain and simple.

[Galacticus]

Being able to cast golem wand/pumice while running not so useless imo.

Actually applying resist songs and ranging spells without running too far is something a lot of bards are lacking here.

I agree with many bards here will have trouble coping without unresistable dots, but that's the player not the class.

Blind shouldn't even hit on 50mr+ targets =). It's not just the problem of it landing on higher MRs, its also a very quick, low mana spell to spam.

Bane/EBolt should be 120 resist range and pretty easy 90+. 160 or w/e just way too high of a requirement for something fast that can be blocked with envenomed breath.

Shamans will still be pretty godly with torpor + disease stacking + keeping pet on top of someone. Bashes that stun are murder.

~80 for rogue poison is good. It's just a snare that has the added advantage of being poison based. Malo + rogue poison should be fine synergy but a bit too stronk atm.

I'll click around on beta asap.

Most of all, thank you Haynar, you definitely didn't have to do any of this and we really needed it.

Enveloped breath is cured in 1 pot cast. Slam is not bash and usually misses. Disease spells are also pot cured quickly. 160 is too high for immunity resist but if you brought it down you need to fix pots or else shamans will be used only for pve.