Would you play an MMORPG in the spirit of classic EQ?

[sox7d]

New world but same characteristics such as:
-No maps
-No random stat loot
-No "kill 10 <monster>" quests
-Non-linear dungeons
-Difficult soloability
-No instancing
-Tradeskills mostly a commercial decision
-Large, occasionally barren landscape.

I don't really feel strongly about things other than old-school MMORPGs. I'm done with college, wondering if I should dedicate myself to what I'm most passionate about, but want to check how marketable it is to this community first. Minecraft comes to mind with a lot of the "immersive" aspects of EQ, I'm curious if another EQ could be successful, too.

[Zeakus]

I want to say yes, but the reason I play EQ is because of the nostalgia. A MMO like this just wouldn't survive in today climate.

[fastboy21]

You're asking this poll question on a classic EQ emu server forum...

Do you really think the results are going to be meaningful?

[sox7d]

You're asking this poll question on a classic EQ emu server forum...

Do you really think the results are going to be meaningful?

There is quite a bit of debate whenever "the good ol days / muh immersion" topic comes up. Curious to get a better insight to see if the people in those threads who say, "I only play this game because familiarity and nostalgia" are just a loud minority or if the majority of the people here would play a new game if it was similar.

[Ezalor]

let me get this straight. you're asking a group of people who like EQ so much they googled it 15 years later and play on a bootleg server if they would play a game exactly like eq?

stop the presses, we got a goddamn genius over here

[sox7d]

let me get this straight. you're asking a group of people who like EQ so much they googled it 15 years later and play on a bootleg server if they would play a game exactly like eq?

stop the presses, we got a goddamn genius over here


15% say they wouldn't so far, so maybe it's not the most predictable poll, internet toughguy.

[Zeakus]

^^^^^^^^^^
Yup... Pretty much!

In all seriousness, if a game like eq 1999 came out most would just toss it to the side of the road and say bad game design. Most, myself included, forgot how unforgiving learning EQ was. Hell I remember loading it up playing a shaman barb running out, getting dark, dying to a vengeful soloist, and then saying this game sucks back then!

Are you just trolling or do you really think a game like this can survive in today's culture? An old guy like me might play it, but I seriously doubt an 18 year would. Let me remind you the 18 year old is your target audience for games, since they play more and pay more. There is exceptions but for the most part this will hold true.

[sox7d]

^^^^^^^^^^
Yup... Pretty much!

In all seriousness, if a game like eq 1999 came out most would just toss it to the side of the road and say bad game design. Most, myself included, forgot how unforgiving learning EQ was. Hell I remember loading it up playing a shaman barb running out, getting dark, dying to a vengeful soloist, and then saying this game sucks back then!

Are you just trolling or do you really think a game like this can survive in today's culture? An old guy like me might play it, but I seriously doubt an 18 year would. Let me remind you the 18 year old is your target audience for games, since they play more and pay more. There is exceptions but for the most part this will hold true.

Thanks for an actual response.

I do think a game like this could survive in the contemporary MMO market. Definitely not on a massive scale, but I believe there is a niche for it. All recent MMOs have just been doing the same shit with some gimmick here or there since WoW came out, but an MMORPG that has the balls to break that might get some fraction of the market. I think there is something to be said about the EQ model, we're her 15 years later, many of us have been playing this server for 5 years which IMO is more than enough time for the rose-tinted glasses to lose their color; there is substance in this game. Meanwhile, the vanilla WoW servers can barely break 200 players.

I know this is the most pipe-dream post I've ever made, but I'm more concerned with just making another bastion of communal MMOs (FFXI, SWG...) to anyone who's been looking for it, rather than commercial success. (IB4 good luck getting investors)

[SCB]

I wouldn't want to play it unless it had instanced end-game content. Racing for boss mobs does not translate to skill in any meaningful way.

I love the idea of non-instanced or only partially-instanced dungeons (instanced ring events/boss encounters/etc) however.

Edit: Didn't know what to vote.

[Sinder]

Honestly im here because of Nostalgia and to experience content timeline that it was released. I was 13 when EQ came out and never lvl'd to the high end till later in high school. I loved the raiding scene and the thrills and wanted to experience what I always viewed as the golden age of EQ. sure i did some old world raids but they were a joke as far as difficulty was concerned and they were mostly done for people to get collectors loot, clickys, twink items and fashionquest stuff.

I have been tempted to go back to live at times just because I still have so many friends playing on there. When I logged in when they made it free to play and saw that I had to pay to use the old gear i had raided for on my Chars I sent a few /tells saying hello & goodbye again and then logged off not to log in since then.

[loramin]

Personally I'd like to see a game that's like EQ content-wise, but not UI-wise. So I'd say ...


-No random stat loot
-No "kill 10 <monster>" quests
-Non-linear dungeons
-No instancing
-Large, occasionally barren landscape.

Yes.


-No maps
-Difficult soloability
-Tradeskills mostly a commercial decision

I think there's a big range of maps possible. I'm all for no maps in certain zones, not putting every NPC on the map, not having a find feature, etc.
But I think true classic EQ was kind of silly; why bury your head in the sand when you know that leaving out in-game maps just means players will look at EQAtlas?

As for soloability, I played a Shaman in classic so I never had any issues soloing (and I thought that was a good thing). But I'm not against having some soloable classes and some group-only classes.

And while I don't think tradeskills need to be an integral part of the game, I think Velious/Luclin era got tradeskills right: they were unessential but had some in-game benefit (vs. pure classic EQ where most tradeskills were purely for role-playing).

[86753o9]

15% say they wouldn't so far, so maybe it's not the most predictable poll, internet toughguy.
I voted that I would not just to fuck with your poll. Of course I would! I'm already here!

[Zaphodd]

I believe Pantheon : Rise of the Fallen aims to do this very thing and is expected to release in 2017. It may be a worthwhile gauge for you.

Www.pantheonrotf.com

[Ishbu]

I would check it out, how long I would play cannot be guessed at this time. However, as others have stated, Im and old gamer and am not the target market for a new game. It just wouldnt hold up today.

That said, i liked what another poster said about some of the features could change. If the world is as big and dangerous as EQ, having in game maps isnt a big deal. That doesnt make finding your way through the maze any easier than looking at eqatlas was and its still a dangerous run through, not just run in a straight line back like modern games.

I do think there is a place in the game market for a hard, slowly progressing game like classic EQ, but so many of the design features(limitations?) that made it what it was, just cant exist today, so it just isnt likely to be possible to ever make a new EQ.

[Zeakus]

I believe Pantheon : Rise of the Fallen aims to do this very thing and is expected to release in 2017. It may be a worthwhile gauge for you.

Www.pantheonrotf.com

Haha, Brad McQuaid ...Quick someone give him 30 million dollars to create a buggy game that no one will play!

I wish the game luck but he doesn't have the any cred after the debacle of Vanguard. What a disaster that was, although it did have a few players that enjoyed it after they fixed the game years after launch. Although he was apart of the original EQ team, so who knows maybe he can strike it big on this one.

Like many other old school MMO gamers, every MMO launch typically garners a great deal of skepticism after 15 years of shitty MMO launches so don't take it as bashing the game. I'm just glad someone is trying to do something different than copy / paste the WoW gameplay.

[Nuggie]

I believe Pantheon : Rise of the Fallen aims to do this very thing and is expected to release in 2017. It may be a worthwhile gauge for you.

Www.pantheonrotf.com

Glad someone beat me to it.

[iruinedyourday]

I play EQ cus its the closest thing to playing d&d on my own that there is.. the art reminds me of the old books I used to read, all crappy, the gameplay is hard to figure out, the world is just big enough to seem huge but not big enough that nearly every corner of it is relevent.. just reminds me of old D&D so.. if there was an mmo that gave me those feels I would be into it!

https://navdi.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/lizardman.jpg

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/blogs/geekdad/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/UA-Inside-ArtHR-660x347.jpg

https://stefanpoag.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/level2b12bbridge_72.jpg

believe it or not guys, those ARNT screenshots from EQ! :P

I mean come on, EQ's got BARDS! that takes balls, to make a game and put bards in it... even a franchise as big as lord of the rings knew that they couldnt put Tom Bambadil in it.. EQ would be like, Tom? that mo fo's gona be a class all his own!

http://davidadamsuski.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Tom-Bombadil-Banner.png

love it.

[Castcalm]

I know we're in the project 1999 opinion bubble here, but I really think this kind of game would buck conventional marketing wisdom.

Look at the success of Dark Souls. That game is fucking HARD. It's merciless on the player, and it's done quite well. There's something about throwing a gamer into a truly alien world where they are forced to explore, make friends, solve complicated problems with minimal direction, and face stiff penalties upon death that makes for a very addicting and immersive experience.

[DarkwingDuck]

^^^^^^^^^^
Yup... Pretty much!

In all seriousness, if a game like eq 1999 came out most would just toss it to the side of the road and say bad game design. Most, myself included, forgot how unforgiving learning EQ was. Hell I remember loading it up playing a shaman barb running out, getting dark, dying to a vengeful soloist, and then saying this game sucks back then!

Are you just trolling or do you really think a game like this can survive in today's culture? An old guy like me might play it, but I seriously doubt an 18 year would. Let me remind you the 18 year old is your target audience for games, since they play more and pay more. There is exceptions but for the most part this will hold true.


Pretty sure the highest amount of gamers is 30ish
And we have 100X the cash teens do

For the record I would play.. I try every MMO
With 95% of them sucking hard

[DarkwingDuck]

Thanks for an actual response.

I do think a game like this could survive in the contemporary MMO market. Definitely not on a massive scale, but I believe there is a niche for it. All recent MMOs have just been doing the same shit with some gimmick here or there since WoW came out, but an MMORPG that has the balls to break that might get some fraction of the market. I think there is something to be said about the EQ model, we're her 15 years later, many of us have been playing this server for 5 years which IMO is more than enough time for the rose-tinted glasses to lose their color; there is substance in this game. Meanwhile, the vanilla WoW servers can barely break 200 players.

I know this is the most pipe-dream post I've ever made, but I'm more concerned with just making another bastion of communal MMOs (FFXI, SWG...) to anyone who's been looking for it, rather than commercial success. (IB4 good luck getting investors)

Biggest problem is cost
You wouldn't be able to afford to create, promote , manufacture and distribute this MMo with such a small niche
Sadly today's gamers are some of the worst humans I've ever met. So lazy, poor attitudes, the world owes them everything, self entitled babies. Spoon fed + kill 10 goblins + give me a full detailed map and a glowing line to every location and NPC I need to talk to plz -k - thx

[myriverse]

I mean come on, EQ's got BARDS! that takes balls, to make a game and put bards in it... even a franchise as big as lord of the rings knew that they couldnt put Tom Bambadil in it.. EQ would be like, Tom? that mo fo's gona be a class all his own!
He really wasn't a Bard though. He defied everything. Frankly, it was even a mistake for Tolkien to include him in his story.

As for the topic:
I've got no problem with most of these. I never needed any maps. I navigate 99% with landmarks, even in "large, occasionally barren landscapes." The sticking point is instancing-- I do think it's necessary for any commercial game.

[Octave]

Project Gorgon is an MMO free to play (and no cash shop or any idea that there will be; it's in alpha) right now that takes a bunch of cues from Everquest as well as Asheron's Call and UO.

In a nutshell:


No shitty tutorial
No themeparks or npcs with questionmarks over their head.
Group content from the start that's not instanced.
Diablo-like random loot system where an upgrade is meaningful and not just a 1% stat increase.
A sort of FFXI multiclass system: pick any two combat skill bars at a time.
That stuff that makes it a world: vendors resell player loot, jumping in water puts out fires, drop items on the ground and they actually stay there.
Crafting is actually useful.
Dungeon Puzzles - because I guess some people like puzzles.
Some other stuff that's just weird: progammable golem pets with if-then conditionals, using a shovel to bury corpses, calligraphy, cow form with cow armor and abilities.


The only thing missing is a painful death to non-bosses (bosses give curses that suck when you die to them. You must kill them to lift the curse).

Closest thing to old world EQ I've found.

Download here:

http://projectgorgon.com/game/play-now

[sox7d]

I play EQ cus its the closest thing to playing d&d on my own that there is.. the art reminds me of the old books I used to read, all crappy, the gameplay is hard to figure out, the world is just big enough to seem huge but not big enough that nearly every corner of it is relevent.. just reminds me of old D&D so.. if there was an mmo that gave me those feels I would be into it!

https://navdi.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/lizardman.jpg

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/blogs/geekdad/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/UA-Inside-ArtHR-660x347.jpg

https://stefanpoag.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/level2b12bbridge_72.jpg

believe it or not guys, those ARNT screenshots from EQ! :P

I mean come on, EQ's got BARDS! that takes balls, to make a game and put bards in it... even a franchise as big as lord of the rings knew that they couldnt put Tom Bambadil in it.. EQ would be like, Tom? that mo fo's gona be a class all his own!

http://davidadamsuski.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Tom-Bombadil-Banner.png

love it.

MFW reading this post on my phone last night.

http://i.imgur.com/fBKX37f.jpg

Also, bards may have been more derived from Vainamoinnen, the legendary finnish music wizard. #ensiferum ...Which is probably where Tom Bombadil came from, anyways.

[cbozeman]

New world but same characteristics such as:
-No maps
-No random stat loot
-No "kill 10 <monster>" quests
-Non-linear dungeons
-Difficult soloability
-No instancing
-Tradeskills mostly a commercial decision
-Large, occasionally barren landscape.

I don't really feel strongly about things other than old-school MMORPGs. I'm done with college, wondering if I should dedicate myself to what I'm most passionate about, but want to check how marketable it is to this community first. Minecraft comes to mind with a lot of the "immersive" aspects of EQ, I'm curious if another EQ could be successful, too.

Okay, so it depends on where you would decide to take this.

No maps? That won't fly today, not even with most old school hardcore players. What I'd recommend is making Mapmaking a tradeskill. Once someone has completely explored a zone, they can craft a map of that zone and sell it to players. Once players scribe the map into their atlas (have some real fun with this, make the atlas a quested consumable item that unlocks a minimap and the ability to add more maps), they can then see a large view of the map, and a minimap appears in their interface.

I don't really care for the "Do something X amount of times" quests either, so I wouldn't be sad to see them go.

Non-linear dungeons are a great idea, and I've always loved them. Explore where you want, when you want.

Difficult, but not impossible to solo, that's the key.

If you're going to have a lack of instancing, then you'll need a huge amount of content to keep everyone happy.

I think tradeskills should enhance a game and be a desirable gameplay choice, not an afterthought. Although EQ's tradeskill system was rather robust if you think about it, especially for 1999.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Project Gorgon is an MMO free to play (and no cash shop or any idea that there will be; it's in alpha) right now that takes a bunch of cues from Everquest as well as Asheron's Call and UO.

In a nutshell:


No shitty tutorial
No themeparks or npcs with questionmarks over their head.
Group content from the start that's not instanced.
Diablo-like random loot system where an upgrade is meaningful and not just a 1% stat increase.
A sort of FFXI multiclass system: pick any two combat skill bars at a time.
That stuff that makes it a world: vendors resell player loot, jumping in water puts out fires, drop items on the ground and they actually stay there.
Crafting is actually useful.
Dungeon Puzzles - because I guess some people like puzzles.
Some other stuff that's just weird: progammable golem pets with if-then conditionals, using a shovel to bury corpses, calligraphy, cow form with cow armor and abilities.


The only thing missing is a painful death to non-bosses (bosses give curses that suck when you die to them. You must kill them to lift the curse).

Closest thing to old world EQ I've found.

Download here:

http://projectgorgon.com/game/play-now


Welp, this is it. Goodbye p99!

[Lisset]

-No maps

I actually like maps, though the Rift model is the best, imho and I think EQ did it similarly when they introduced their "own" version of maps later on. What I mean is that I like maps but they should be revealed through a cartography skill or ability inherent in every character. In other words, you don't see what you haven't explored yourself.

-No random stat loot


I like random stat loot. Some of it ends up being useful and is a pleasant reward when something drops that you need. It's better than nothing but "generic vendor trash" and "ERMAGERD named loot!"


-No "kill 10 <monster>" quests


I don't get this. Everyone wants to decry "no kill ___ monster" quests but they're essential in games. Even "bounty" quests are "kill this monster, then that monster" quests. The problem is when there is nothing ELSE but those. The biggest alternative to these types of quests is the RP story quests that almost nobody reads anyway.


-Non-linear dungeons


This. Completely this. Sebilis is a perfect example. If you want to kill the head boss, you obviously take a more-or-less linear path but 99% of the cases, you go in there to kill things. For some stupid reason, almost all modern mmo's think that a dungeon is ONLY for crawling. There needs to be both.


-Difficult soloability


Yes and no. I think EQ did it best (obviously) though it could be improved. Soloing is possible with many classes (some better than others), but grouping should ALWAYS be better than soloing. By the same token, every class needs to have something significant to contribute to every type of encounter, even while the encounter is going on. For instance, chanters are extraordinarily useful in all groups and leading up to the raid target. But once people are buffed, there's often very little we can do. In Sky, we tash (except for a couple targets where charmed pets are useful), at Trakanon, we really don't do much unless we have a charmed pet which isn't always possible in the rush to get FTE. This is the case with most dragons because our offensive spells are usless really and our debuffs are meaningless (unless we don't have a shaman).


-No instancing


I disagree. Instancing is useful, IMHO for xp dungeon crawls. They should be procedural so as not to be stale and the loot shouldn't be the best. And they shouldn't completely replace "camp-style" dungeons at all. But IMHO, Instanced raids should be few and far between, but they have their place too. Sky is actually a great example of a raid that would work better instanced.


-Tradeskills mostly a commercial decision


I think trades need to be useful, period. Whether it's to sell something to someone else (via necessary items or fashion) or useful to the person with the tradeskill, it should have something that's genuinely useful in the game. Brewing didn't become really useful until Velious and baking was never anything more than slightly useful.

Ultimately, I think the key to an effective tradeskill system is have each skill produce some kind of needed consumables.


-Large, occasionally barren landscape.


No. No. and No. Barren landscape is stupid. It's also known as the Karanas. Barren landscape always becomes something that people bypass because it's BORING. The problem with places like Karana is that there's not enough mobs there. Realism be damned, every place needs something useful to DO and usually that is killing.

I do agree with "large" because a world needs to feel vast.

[Treefall]

Haha, Brad McQuaid ...Quick someone give him 30 million dollars to create a buggy game that no one will play!

I wish the game luck but he doesn't have the any cred after the debacle of Vanguard. What a disaster that was, although it did have a few players that enjoyed it after they fixed the game years after launch. Although he was apart of the original EQ team, so who knows maybe he can strike it big on this one.

Like many other old school MMO gamers, every MMO launch typically garners a great deal of skepticism after 15 years of shitty MMO launches so don't take it as bashing the game. I'm just glad someone is trying to do something different than copy / paste the WoW gameplay.

I won't deny that Vanguard was a huge letdown.

However, I think the core of the issue for that game, and many other MMOs on release today, is that they are trying to put way too much content in at release to "compete" with seasoned MMOs that have been on the market for years.

It leads to a sub-par, buggy product that launches with 1/2 the expected features and those features that do make it are lackluster because so much development time was spent on features that never made it into the game.

An MMO in the spirit of EQ really only needs the following at release, but done VERY WELL.
-Tank, Healer, CC, melee DPS, ranged DPS (1 or 2)
-3 to 4 races
-Two well-designed major cities, and a few smaller cities to meet various needs
-A meaningful level cap with xp paced out to make sure content stays meaningful for days of playtime, not hours (in terms of leveling)
-Outdoor Zones: just 2 for each leveling bracket, but designed well with clear areas for various levels and group sizes in their respective bracket.
-Dungeons Same as outdoor zones, 2 for each leveling bracket but designed well with clear areas for various levels and group sizes in their respective bracket.

Honestly, have that ready out the door. Raiding at first could easily be strategically spawning mobs among all the zones created for the leveling experience. We don't need amazing, complex raid zones right out of the door, just throw raiding into the world to keep every zone meaningful. Heck, how bad ass would it be for certain raid mobs to spawn in the major cities or out lying cities even, with real consequences occurring when they aren't killed.

Then every year patch in a race and class until you feel content that all bases are covered. Instead of working directly on raid content, every year add in a new leveling zone for each bracket that's well designed, with new raid mobs designed to live among it (expanding where people can level and raid).

Then I feel when all bases are eventually covered, as you started the game with a great core and just added onto that core, then it's time to focus on zones for level cap. Maybe at that point expand levels by 10, then really focus on raids and high level content.

Just my 2 cents.

I feel like too many new MMOs come out trying to have massive leveling experiences, massive numbers of classes, massive numbers of races to choose from, beautiful cities that take a lot of time to design but are deserted because there are 14,000 other cities, etc. etc. Just design a core and add to it people, dang it.

[mycoolrausch]

-Non-linear dungeons


This reminds me that Vanilla WoW had some really cool non linear dungeons. Blackrock depths, dire maul, lower blackrock spire. They were all pretty epic and immersive. When I played a couple expansions later during a free resurrection trial I noticed the new dungeons were literally loot corridors. You start at one end of a hallway and walk forward spamming your abilities till you get to the other end of the same hallway, collect loot.

Anyway, truthfully I'm not super interested in another static content static ability MMO, but I wouldn't be opposed to playing one for shits and giggles if it was the least bit inspired.

[Danth]

I don't have a whole lot of interest in another EQ-style game, albeit for reasons not mentioned in the original post. I only barely play EQ-EMU as it is. EQ-style games are about as much bad as good for me, and I seem to gradually grow less tolerant of the bad as I age.

Danth

[TheBiznessTZ]

Lets all be real here..... everyone here is waiting for eqnext. Oh and my 2 cents i came back to p99 because the game is hard.

[myriverse]

Let's be real here: I think most here are waiting to rail against EQNext the moment it hits the shelves (if it ever hits the shelves).

[TheBiznessTZ]

Let's be real here: I think most here are waiting to rail against EQNext the moment it hits the shelves (if it ever hits the shelves).

Yeah it looks good. Feels very fluid.. i on landmark a lil bit. Im just skeptical about there being no "lvls"

[Humerox]

Project Gorgon is an MMO free to play (and no cash shop or any idea that there will be; it's in alpha) right now that takes a bunch of cues from Everquest as well as Asheron's Call and UO.

In a nutshell:


No shitty tutorial
No themeparks or npcs with questionmarks over their head.
Group content from the start that's not instanced.
Diablo-like random loot system where an upgrade is meaningful and not just a 1% stat increase.
A sort of FFXI multiclass system: pick any two combat skill bars at a time.
That stuff that makes it a world: vendors resell player loot, jumping in water puts out fires, drop items on the ground and they actually stay there.
Crafting is actually useful.
Dungeon Puzzles - because I guess some people like puzzles.
Some other stuff that's just weird: progammable golem pets with if-then conditionals, using a shovel to bury corpses, calligraphy, cow form with cow armor and abilities.


The only thing missing is a painful death to non-bosses (bosses give curses that suck when you die to them. You must kill them to lift the curse).

Closest thing to old world EQ I've found.

Download here:

http://projectgorgon.com/game/play-now

Just found this. TOTALLY FREAKING AWESOME even in alpha. Massively complex, non-linear, no levels (skill-based), neat dungeons, no instances...it has the old-school feel with tons of new ideas.

I have a feeling this will continue to be in alpha for a very long time...but it is thoroughly enjoyable as it stands. And it's free. :D

[Jimjam]

Okay, so it depends on where you would decide to take this.

No maps? That won't fly today, not even with most old school hardcore players. What I'd recommend is making Mapmaking a tradeskill. Once someone has completely explored a zone, they can craft a map of that zone and sell it to players. Once players scribe the map into their atlas (have some real fun with this, make the atlas a quested consumable item that unlocks a minimap and the ability to add more maps), they can then see a large view of the map, and a minimap appears in their interface.

I don't really care for the "Do something X amount of times" quests either, so I wouldn't be sad to see them go.

Non-linear dungeons are a great idea, and I've always loved them. Explore where you want, when you want.

Difficult, but not impossible to solo, that's the key.

If you're going to have a lack of instancing, then you'll need a huge amount of content to keep everyone happy.

I think tradeskills should enhance a game and be a desirable gameplay choice, not an afterthought. Although EQ's tradeskill system was rather robust if you think about it, especially for 1999.
Totally what I was going to suggest regarding maps. I'd probably add in the ability to buy 'official' maps through microtransactions (boooo!). Everyone will say the official maps suck and use the player made ones instead :p.

[Jimjam]

Why does everyone seem to hate levels?

[fiveeauxfour]

Wait...wtf are we playing now?

[Kika Maslyaka]

New world but same characteristics such as:
-No maps
-No random stat loot
-No "kill 10 <monster>" quests
-Non-linear dungeons
-Difficult soloability
-No instancing
-Tradeskills mostly a commercial decision
-Large, occasionally barren landscape.

I don't really feel strongly about things other than old-school MMORPGs. I'm done with college, wondering if I should dedicate myself to what I'm most passionate about, but want to check how marketable it is to this community first. Minecraft comes to mind with a lot of the "immersive" aspects of EQ, I'm curious if another EQ could be successful, too.

Hmm I was initially tempted to say YES, but when I saw your list, I realized that my "classic spirit" values do not really match your list. I would only agree on some of them:

-No Instancing
-No random stat loot
-Non-linear dungeons

These 2 are questionable in EQ as well:

-No "kill 10 <monster>" quests -------- EQs ENDLESS turn in of bone chips, bat wings and orc belts are really no better

-Difficult soloability -------------- disputable considering how some classes are insanely better than others in every regard without any penalty (just look at necros). Either: everyone can solo, or no one should.

[karekiz]

Yes, if it was an remake of Everquest that didn't look like shit.

No, if it is anything but a remake of Everquest that didn't look like shit.

[Grimluck]

I will play any MMO that doesn't reflect the status quo. If it means going back to the roots such as EQ-like machanics, so be it.

[Sampten]

Hmm I was initially tempted to say YES, but when I saw your list, I realized that my "classic spirit" values do not really match your list. I would only agree on some of them:

-No Instancing
-No random stat loot
-Non-linear dungeons

These 2 are questionable in EQ as well:

-No "kill 10 <monster>" quests -------- EQs ENDLESS turn in of bone chips, bat wings and orc belts are really no better

-Difficult soloability -------------- disputable considering how some classes are insanely better than others in every regard without any penalty (just look at necros). Either: everyone can solo, or no one should.

Instancing of raid content only would actually be good a good thing.

The mess that is FTE and poopsocking and what not is ridiculous.

[Lady Julae]

Lets all be real here..... everyone here is waiting for eqnext. Oh and my 2 cents i came back to p99 because the game is hard.

To take that point, I made an opinion that everybody wants EQ Next to be EQ Classic, with 2015 graphics. :D

[Voland]

The mess that is FTE and poopsocking and what not is ridiculous.

What does FTE mean? I googled it and results weren't helpful.

[Lady Julae]

What does FTE mean? I googled it and results weren't helpful.

FTE = First to Engage. Basically the person who tags the mob first, owns the mob, and no others should engage unless asked by the engaging player/party to assist.

[Saludeen]

Of course. That's what we've all been waiting for. But instead we keep getting generic clones that follow the "make it easy for the masses" model.

[Saludeen]

Instancing of raid content only would actually be good a good thing.

The mess that is FTE and poopsocking and what not is ridiculous.

Nah, instances ruin the feel of the world. One great part of Everquest is running to a dungeon and finding other people there.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Instancing of raid content only would actually be good a good thing.

The mess that is FTE and poopsocking and what not is ridiculous.

This I would actually agree on.

Nah, instances ruin the feel of the world. One great part of Everquest is running to a dungeon and finding other people there.

IMHO - the open world from perspective of individual players and pick up group is fine: you go to an open dungeon and get into 1 of the group already there, and groups have freedom or switching member if they need to leave.
RAID - is a whole different beast - they go after per-determined targets and there is no real picking up as you go like you can do with groups.
So unless you have MASSIVE raid content - raid instances placed in separate or sub-zones would actually make everyone happy. Nothing worse than sitting in XP group in a dungeon when there is a raid moving trough which slaughters everything in its path effectively interfering with your gameplay. Also, the instances don't have to be repoped every 24 hours - they could very well be 7 days repops or something.

[Champion_Standing]

Probably not.

Games need to cater to people that have lives to be commercially successful in today's market. Besides I'm not playing new mmos as a way to experience what already exists in old mmos. Just accept that games are gonna have maps, and easily achievable goals like "kill 10 x".

If you can convince yourself that dated basic mechanics and a general lack of features actually aren't required to make a fun mmo, you might actually find some decent games outside of this antique shop.

[curtischoy]

I only read a few of the first posts, so maybe this was already mentioned but.

Dark Souls 1 and 2 were notoriously painful (I only played 2 for a few hours and imo it sucked) and people loved it. I don't think it sold a TON of copies, but I am pretty sure that it did well. I think there is something out there for a product like this in MMO style, yes.

[Gisshan]

I'm here because of nostalgia as well as a game that I don't seem to get burnt out on after a week of playing. I have a group of friends as well that have played EQ in the past and loved it but a lot of them can't get past the dated graphics. They enjoy the nostalgia/difficulty part of the game but to them the graphics are just dated. I've tired to get them to try out the server and a couple have but none of them stick with it and the only reasons I get are the graphics. Yea they complain about not having a map and it takes forever to level but that's not why they stopped playing. I believe a new game could be designed with difficulty introduced back into the industry and still do very well depending on how you sold it. With all the different methods to pay in today's gaming environment you can have a great game but ruin it with payment method as well. I personally am a fan of subscription style games as opposed to F2P with special in game markets based around RL currency. I have not seen 1 game do an in game market well where the people buying crap from the markets don't get things otherwise inaccessible in the game. I would rather pay a subscription to a game and get all content even if that would require a monthly subscription to the game of $30/month. All subscription based games never seem to go past about 15 a month and with inflation since 1999 how can that be expected. I'd gladly pay double that for a newly created EQ with updated graphics and I have a large group of friends that would too as long as something dumb like an in game market doesn't ruin it.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Regarding maps.
This is how I would do it. Game completely without maps is rather stupid - humanity was using maps for 6000 years, yet no one invented one in EQ? (yet at the same time you got a satellite signal which pin points your excat coordinates with a /loc). However we must understand that there is a difference between having a map and knowing your current location on it - there are people today who still get lost even with a map ;)

How this would work:
1. you have to buy a map from NPC. The higher lev of the zone - the more expensive is the map. In some cases map could even be quested.

2. Determining your position on the map is a whole other thing - you would get a SKILL similar to Sense Heading which would attempt to determine where you are right now. The higher your skill - the more accurately your position will be determined.
IMPORTANT point- the map will NOT track your position as you move - once you have moved- you will have to use the SKILL again to see where you are now. Higher level zones will have higher req skill to get accurate result.

[Proven Guilty]

Its going to be called Pantheon, Rise of the Fallen and I am going to play it. I am going to love the shit out of it.

[Swish]

Its going to be called Pantheon, Rise of the Fallen and I am going to play it. I am going to love the shit out of it.

[Itap]

Its going to be called Pantheon, Rise of the Fallen and I am going to play it. I am going to love the shit out of it.

[waffel]

It's a shame pantheon is group oriented. Can't poopsock in a group for 5 hours these days, have a job and a life :(

[Kika Maslyaka]

Its going to be called Pantheon, Rise of the Fallen and I am going to play it. I am going to love the shit out of it.

if Brad doesn't smoke away all the money he will be given... :rolleyes:

[tizznyres]

Absolutely, Vanguard was all about being the spiritual successor to EverQuest, and tried hard toward it, and failed for many reasons. Their failure was not due to their design concepts in my opinion, but the game was heavily rushed and failed to deliver on a lot of promises. Perhaps the biggest mistake was selling out to Sony only about 6 months after release and being relegated to the list of "Sony Graveyard MMO's." It was fully canceled and all the servers disabled not that long after.

Everquest 2 attempted it in many ways, but in many others catered to the casuals and had a lot of concepts that irritated me. Even still, wasn't a terrible game as a whole and I spent several good months with it.

Early Final Fantasy XI had a lot of the these concepts and was good fun for a while. I started right at the North American release, and English speaking Americans were forced to play on servers with year-old veteran Japanese players with already established characters. This was a massive, massive turn-off for me.

You also have Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, and classic Lineage, but these were significantly different than EverQuest in many ways. That being said, they still fit most of the concepts that made classic EverQuest what it was. And I played each of them for a long, long time.

With any luck Pantheon will succeed and offer many of the things that made EverQuest and Vanguard great. Definitely my most anticipated MMO in the recent years.

Just wish more non-indie Developers / Publishers would attempt it. Far too much catering to the casuals these days, especially in MMORPG's, a genre that's arguably the most hardcore in essence of any gaming genres.

[tizznyres]

It's a shame pantheon is group oriented. Can't poopsock in a group for 5 hours these days, have a job and a life :(

People did it for years during Ultima Online and Everquest, over 15 years ago. They will do it today if a game draws them in.

if Brad doesn't smoke away all the money he will be given... :rolleyes:

Please, I hope you aren't serious. This is the most pathetic anti-Brad McQuaid meme.

[Kika Maslyaka]

People did it for years during Ultima Online and Everquest, over 15 years ago. They will do it today if a game draws them in.



Please, I hope you aren't serious. This is the most pathetic anti-Brad McQuaid meme.

well there are many statement of Brad's former co-workers who do not view him in most positive light, specially in regards of management, code testing, and admitting to past mistakes.

[Humerox]

New world but same characteristics such as:
-No maps
-No random stat loot
-No "kill 10 <monster>" quests
-Non-linear dungeons
-Difficult soloability
-No instancing
-Tradeskills mostly a commercial decision
-Large, occasionally barren landscape.

I don't really feel strongly about things other than old-school MMORPGs. I'm done with college, wondering if I should dedicate myself to what I'm most passionate about, but want to check how marketable it is to this community first. Minecraft comes to mind with a lot of the "immersive" aspects of EQ, I'm curious if another EQ could be successful, too.

Project Gorgon fits all of these requirements and then some. They just changed to Unity so the graphics are much better than they were...although they still hearken back to an older school MMO.

I just spent several hours today getting a freaking skinning knife. I had to skill up recipes and get "favor" with certain merchants just to buy those recipes...had to get the raw materials, which included growing plants from seeds and then going through several cooking combinations to finally be successful.

There are no "quests" per-say...rather there are things merchants want and need and you gain "favor" with them for completing what they want...and said favor allows you to buy products from them that you need for skilling up.

There is NO leveling...everything is skill-based, and when you begin to understand the sheer number of skills involved it's amazing. The game is VERY deep. It's in alpha right now but it's playable and free. The developer has even talked about PvP options in the future.

There isn't really a death penalty...unless you want to opt in for hardcore play. Your equipment breaks on death and you have to return to where you died to have the items restored. In return for this you get faster experience for skill-ups.

Anyone that wants old school play without hand-holding, where there is no linear play, where you can choose to be anything and everything you want to be (skilling up isn't easy so it's not like you're going to be a master of of everything overnight, trust me) then you have no further to look than this game. It's deeply rewarding and satisfying to play.

Just as an example of how complex it can really be...you can buy conditions and arguments for golem pets for god's sake. How crazy good is that?

http://www.eldergame.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/minigolem4.jpg


You guys really need to try it, lol. Oh...and Werewolves. You can be one. Or a Cow if you want to lose to a certain boss mob and be cursed with that illusion. (Illusions aren't easy to rectify, either.) But these boss mobs are optional...and rewards are good if you win. You can play solo all you want, but some mobs definitely need groups to take down.

When was the last time your character in an MMO got lice and had to find out how to get rid of the disease? It wasn't hard but I was like wtf...lice? lol. (The disease slightly reduced hygiene and regen).

Project Gorgon (http://projectgorgon.com/)