Why do people seem to hate luclin so much?

[Arteker]

I dunno, people love Velious.

But Velious doesn't Really have a Guk style zone other than maybe Velketors. And Velketor's is really small for what is the Guk style part. There's the spiders which are maybe 2 camps and the dogs which are maybe 2 camps.

Ssra had an equal amount of named and camps, with more quests and better/more interesting raid content. The main difference being that Ssra loot is mostly No Drop. Whereas Velks is mostly tradeable.

No Drop makes you actually have to go out and quest or group your own gear, which I'm a big proponent of. However Kunark people can just flip stuff in EC and buy up whatever they want, which is dumb and not in the spirit of classic at all.

Beyond that though, Velious doesn't have many/any named/ph camp dungeons. There are dungeons like Dragon Necropolis or Siren's Grotto or Kael, but they are all dungeons with high numbers of trash and very few named/ph camps, if any. Which about describes most Luclin dungeons.

luclin was filled with open outdoor xp zones due to increasing massive bitching of casters and groups wich did not want to risk classic dungueon death.

even nowdays the trend continues as most people still xp in kc p99 than own sebilis or hs. people rather have slow xp than risk a wipe in sebs or hs for most part.heck more people in unrest than runneye or gorge of king xorbb.

Baazar allowed u to skip the reseller part of the game , u just went to sleep and let people choose if they wanted to buy ur junk , yesterday i did a micro test in ec by selling a jade mace for 500 pps 1 min later i got 34 tells, 4 mins later dude buyed it was selling for 3k:)
haggle was very rare in old eq, people back then wanted to play the damm game 99% of the people would not sit in ec or in my case kelethin for weeks trying to sell buy just to twink a character before they went to actualy buy a pwlvl for his twink char.
Luclin changed twink forever as most dropeables had minimum lvls , it was a good thing.

[Seltius]

I dunno, people love Velious.

But Velious doesn't Really have a Guk style zone other than maybe Velketors. And Velketor's is really small for what is the Guk style part. There's the spiders which are maybe 2 camps and the dogs which are maybe 2 camps.

Ssra had an equal amount of named and camps, with more quests and better/more interesting raid content. The main difference being that Ssra loot is mostly No Drop. Whereas Velks is mostly tradeable.

No Drop makes you actually have to go out and quest or group your own gear, which I'm a big proponent of. However Kunark people can just flip stuff in EC and buy up whatever they want, which is dumb and not in the spirit of classic at all.

Beyond that though, Velious doesn't have many/any named/ph camp dungeons. There are dungeons like Dragon Necropolis or Siren's Grotto or Kael, but they are all dungeons with high numbers of trash and very few named/ph camps, if any. Which about describes most Luclin dungeons.

Velk, Crystal Caverns, Tower of Frozen Shadows, Sirens Grotto, Dragon Necropolis all of these would fit with the Guk theme I am curious on them being left out. There were reasons to hunt in each one while you may not find them desirable or feel they were viable others enjoyed them. There were new mechanics that werent as present in Guk but some were still there and they were indoor zones. *Check They dropped loot that some wanted though you might not. *Check Until you were above the level of the mobs there you still had to group in most of them. *Check

Only real difference is they dont all have items like FBSS and some were harder due to mechanics and keys. But they dont fit the raid zone criteria unless your talking about specific bosses or higher end rares. They also had specific rares that dropped specific loot drops that may spawn in 1 or 3 spots but for most part were not zonewide drops. They were all indoor zones iirc I dont remember if you could SOW in DN but I know the others you had to do it outside.

As far as people talking about AE that was a player decided mechanic that until later wasnt something SoE went out of their way to establish since it restricts the zones to be more desirable to certain classes instead of the player base as a whole. Same with Chardok it became an ae zone later it didnt start as one when they planned it. So stating that a zone is an AE zone is an invalid arguement on both sides.

I liked Luclin and loved PoP but as the Devs and other powers that be have stated its not for them. So instead of trying to sledgehammer your way to try and force them to make it why not accept it and enjoy what we have. If you want maybe talk to them about the Velious coding and start your own server or just start a server that goes from Luclin release on. skip SoV or use Sony coding and just try to get the nostalgic feel from SoL+.

[kaev]

...
Baazar allowed u to skip the reseller part of the game ...

That's simply not true. Bazaar lowered average margin but also made it much lower stress to be a reseller, no hate tells from people who felt it was immoral to sell an item for a higher price than they had charged you. At one point when I wasn't playing much but still had an active account, I did some casual reselling in the Bazaar and made ~ 40kpp over about 5 weeks time while spending less than 5 hours a week at the keyboard. I was far from alone.

[Arteker]

That's simply not true. Bazaar lowered average margin but also made it much lower stress to be a reseller, no hate tells from people who felt it was immoral to sell an item for a higher price than they had charged you. At one point when I wasn't playing much but still had an active account, I did some casual reselling in the Bazaar and made ~ 40kpp over about 5 weeks time while spending less than 5 hours a week at the keyboard. I was far from alone.

because nobody will pay attention to you trying to haggle the prize of a item and later to insult when u not lowered?.:)

[Daldaen]

Velk, Crystal Caverns, Tower of Frozen Shadows, Sirens Grotto, Dragon Necropolis all of these would fit with the Guk theme I am curious on them being left out. There were reasons to hunt in each one while you may not find them desirable or feel they were viable others enjoyed them. There were new mechanics that werent as present in Guk but some were still there and they were indoor zones. *Check They dropped loot that some wanted though you might not. *Check Until you were above the level of the mobs there you still had to group in most of them. *Check
CC, ToFS, DN, and SG weren't like what was described. They each had <5 named mobs with ph. Most only had 2-3.

Wheres zones like Sebilis, Guk, Velks have like 15-20 named/PH who have normal 20min respawns with multiple camps.

[kaev]

because nobody will pay attention to you trying to haggle the prize of a item and later to insult when u not lowered?.:)

Not at all sure what you're trying to say there, there was no haggling with the sellbots in the bazaar. I haven't done any reselling on p99, got my fill of that on live 15 years ago in gBay and later at Luclin bazaar. Here I made pp blacksmithing and farming easy loot in under-used zones.

[theguyy]

Luclin and PoP are easily fixable. Every other EQ expansion.....not so much.

[Jimjam]

Would people prefer if the /barter function was included as well as /bazaar?

[Clark]

Luclin is amazing.

[DrunkGrunt11b]

i liked everything about luclin.

2 out of 2 infantryman can't be wrong because you know we go outside and stuff.

[Swish]

Make the EC tunnel area able to turn people into vendors...bazaar problem sold. If you're active you'll be pushing your wares manually <3

[DevGrousis]

SoL modernized the game.

People dislike change.

IMO the Bazaar, mounts, and Spires were too much.

[Zapatos]

You could do luclin for the content and not the game changing mechanics.

[iruinedyourday]

seriously if luclin didnt change the art style of the game, i wuld be ok with it. If you were goign to show me this, and say would u be into it? I would say hell yes.. but it turns out I wouldnt be once I logged in. sadface

https://tagn.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/676618-luclin2.jpg

[rekreant]

They were viewable with old models if you toggled on new elementals and horses. But they looked stupid with old models (which is to be expected). Just made playing a caster and boxing casters far more convenient. Plus it added a great platinum sink.

EC meh, many servers used NFP and GFay. Bazaar is almost no different. There may be a few more AFK people. But there are currently a huge number of AFKers in Tunnel.

The arguments against Bazaar AFK traders, PoK books and instancing always seem to come down to the people disliking these changes due to other players no longer being forced to interact with them. Heaven forbid dudes sell stuff without having to deal with resellers and lowballers. Or dudes having the opportunity to travel easily themselves instead of insisting on inconveniencing another player to assist them in their traveling. Or not being able to permacamp a rare spawn and be able to prevent others from attaining that item.

Player interaction isn't inhibited by these changes unless you choose to let it. No meaningful interaction ever occurs when I sell something or when I port someone. Sure sometimes I may be nice and give someone a good deal because they're new or super classic. But that guy will have forgotten our interaction the next day.

You can still auction stuff off and get ports and set up pickup groups in static content. Or you can choose to use the more convenient features. I'm a proponent of more choice and more freedom.

Ron Paul 2012.

[Sinquentiano]

I liked a couple things about Luclin... mainly the new weapon models (I'm always a sucker for more shiny stabby smashies) and I enjoyed the cat-folk well enough.... I even like a couple of the models, namely the elves. But I play Iksar primarily and their awful model was the start of the dislikes.

A lot of the models have piss-poor copy/pasted animation and very muddied-down cultural armor designs... I know I can turn off certain models, but it's the principle of the thing. Honestly one of my biggest problems with it were the introduction of scaling weapons and minimum levels on gear (something I have always hated)... if you have the scratch to buy cool shit, you should be able to enjoy it however you like! And my other big problem is the Bazaar....

You know what classic EQ has that no other modern game including EQlive has? A living, breathing, open market with a soul. Every piece of gear I have obtained from EC has been a fun haggle give and take, and a couple have even lead to adventures to fetch things or the like.... an Auction House/Bazaar completely destroys this personal charm, this face-to-face socializing... I remember most people I have sold to and recognize them in passing and grouping... cant say I could do that in later games.

Short answer? No, keep Luclin out of P1999, especially because there are other servers that feature them.

[Sonderbeast]

I personally liked Luclin, the Dragonlance books included their moons into their world so it worked for me.


I'll show myself out

[oldhead]

because soe catered to the lowest denominator starting at the release of SoL

cat people were dumb
bazaar ruined trading
new graphics looked like shit
new ui was dumb
mounts were dumb
porting to nexus was dumb

This

Worst was Bazaar... RUINED trading and destroyed the economy.

[oldhead]

Make the EC tunnel area able to turn people into vendors...bazaar problem sold. If you're active you'll be pushing your wares manually <3

Wont solve the problem and will cuase the same crash of the economy that the Bazzar did. Do that and minus whale just have a searchable index and save the headache of clicking on afk bandwidth eating vendors.

Really hate this aspect of Asian games. Dont bring that stuff to western MMOs.

[rekreant]

This

Best was Bazaar... Facilitated trading and stabilized the economy.


FIXT FOR YOU

[curtischoy]

Originally Posted by oldhead View Post
This

Best was Bazaar... Facilitated trading and stabilized the economy.

FIXT FOR YOU


This.
Bazaar made things more affordable. That is not ruining an economy, it is stimulating it.

[cornisthebest]

wow people are still arguing about this lol

[eisley]

I always thought it was funny the zone was called The Bazaar. Shouldn't it have been named "The Bazaar Replacement," since it effectively removed any semblance of a "bazaar" atmosphere from the game ?

[Shaniril]

"Why do people seem to hate luclin so much?"

Because for as much as it added, it also ruined the game in the eyes of a LOT of people. More features and easier ways to do things is not always a positive.

[Swish]

Paludal Caverns though? Raid content? The birth of AAs? Everyone hated it?

[Beastro]

Pretty much this right here. People bemoan the ease of today's MMOs, but are frightened of the more grindy era of EQ. Velious is actually one of the expansions that requires the least effort. There are no new levels to obtain, and you can gear up a guild quite easily from tov trash. Even faction grinding really just takes the form of tagging the boss on a few kills, which you can do regardless of who is killing the mob. You could say that it takes some effort to gear people up to handle the tougher mobs of the expansion, but I'll go ahead and make the bold prediction that no guilds will take the "right" path of gearing up 30-40 solid raiders to then challenge tormax/aow/ntov. Instead they'll be zerging around with 60-80 people, some of whom may have the best gear, but not many.

Not everyone was 60 at Velious launch. Hell, they still were by Luclin.

I started at Kunark launch and was high 30s by Velious and enjoyed the lower level content on it as did many others who enjoyed the lower content of Luclin.

I can't speak for Luclin, but Velious didn't ruin old drops, just added horizontal improvements or added similar drops to other heavily camped ones allowing more options like the haste gloves from Velks putting less pressure on getting a FBSS.

[Champion_Standing]

P99ers are only here because they are afriad of change. Don't like the Nexus or Bazaar or the other features is like saying "Nah i don't want to install an elevator in my house, I'm fine with the old climbing rope..it's more immersive."

[wormed]

P99ers are only here because they are afriad of change. Don't like the Nexus or Bazaar or the other features is like saying "Nah i don't want to install an elevator in my house, I'm fine with the old climbing rope..it's more immersive."

Who is the baller with an elevator in their HOUSE!?!?!?! Damn... and I am all archaic with my stairs. Escalator, maybe someday.

[Clark]

Luclin is the best.

[Wwoe]

Loved everything about Luclin except the cats and the graphics.. Not sure why most don't/didn't like it and I really don't care. It was a good time.

[Rararboker]

P99ers are only here because they are afriad of change. Don't like the Nexus or Bazaar or the other features is like saying "Nah i don't want to install an elevator in my house, I'm fine with the old climbing rope..it's more immersive."

No wonder obesity is such a problem. People go for elevators when a perfectly good rope will suffice and provide exercise.

[jarshale]

Paludal Caverns though? Raid content? The birth of AAs? Everyone hated it?

Paludal emptied out every other zone in the same level range. It was terrible.

[Eliseus]

No they didn't, but by that same logic, velious did the same thing to previous zones did it not (honest question)?

[Danth]

Velious didn't damage the pre-existing game too badly. It didn't have any low-level zones at all, and only a limited number of mid-level zones. Most of its high-level experience dungeons were so far off the beaten path that pick-up groups seldom went to them, Velketor's being the obvious exception--and that one zone by itself couldn't empty out Karnor's and Sebilis. In addition, many of the nice Velious items were nodrop so high-end Kunark drops tended to retain value. Velious was very focused on the high-end, and at the time felt like a rather mediocre expansion for folks who didn't want to raid.

The main zone rendered empty by Velious was Veeshan's Peak, which historically saw barely any use anyway. It sees a lot more use here so will likely remain used on P1999.

Danth

[Kika Maslyaka]

The only non fantasy elements of Luclin were Boglings and Netherian "aliens". (yes they could have been dropped).

Paludal ZEM was BAD.

Mounts were great.
Cats awesome.
Beastlords - cool.
New models - awesome for some races (elves, ogres, trolls), horrible for others (shorties).

Loot, grouping and raiding was hardly much different in principle than in Velious.
Though some zones could have used few more named/loot dropping mobs

Bazaar - yeah the last thing I want to do with my time is spend 4 hours trying to sell my junk in the tunnel and haggle over every 5 gold with every idiot instead of actually PLAYING. (ok to some haggling is PLAYING - to each his own). Life haggling was fun only for a while, but when I got dozens of items to list - it got tedious. Lots and lots of high lev people I knew HATED the tunnel - they posted their wares on forums and only logged in their EC mules to deliver the goods to specific buyer. Plus, even after Bazaar went live many still auctioned their wares to lowbies in Qeynos/Gfay/FP etc. No one really wanted to spend 30 min just to get there and another 30 just to get down unless they were shopping for a serious upgrade. It was only with PoK books that getting to Bazaar became a 1 click deal so every lev 3 could quickly check the wares and get back to where he was.

The rest was top notch and highly creative fantasy content.
Ok I admit I would have went with a Shadow World as the setting, instead of the moon, but no one asked ;)

[Jimjam]

I remember doing the lightcrawler armour quest in luclin. I hate lightcrawlers!

There was also a quest where I had to take someone for a walk down a huge hallway whilst being jumped by some fungaldinosaurmen.

I also remember having to do something with a lettuce.

Oh and there is a giant mushroom that is rooted to the spot.

[Beastro]

P99ers are only here because they are afriad of change. Don't like the Nexus or Bazaar or the other features is like saying "Nah i don't want to install an elevator in my house, I'm fine with the old climbing rope..it's more immersive."

Yes, since everyone who's played on Classic emu servers is fine keeping the little improvements like the updated Velious UI and such.

Velious was very focused on the high-end, and at the time felt like a rather mediocre expansion for folks who didn't want to raid.

I loved it as I got to the right level to play it's lower content and split my time between Velious and Kunark being a Druid. A bit part of my enjoyment of the game was exploration and finding new spots to lv and any new loot I could find on my own instead of looking up alllakzam of something. One of my biggest memories of EQ was getting my Dreadlands portal spell and exploring the Combine area expecting danger around every corner.

Mounts were great.
Cats awesome.
Beastlords - cool.
New models - awesome for some races (elves, ogres, trolls), horrible for others (shorties).

Hated mounts because they required new models. There was a reason why demand for AoN spiked in Luclin when everyone wanted to use a mount while keeping the old models around without relogging.

All the models sucked because the Luclin graphics lacked charm and personality the old ones had in spades. For me the worst were the Ogre and Troll ones because they went from loveable dumb looking/ sour faced cartoons to trying to look badass while at the same time looking lifeless and bland.

[Daldaen]

There was a longstanding bug in Luclin/PoP where those using old models could use Mounts, however they only gained the meditating while standing bonus and not the run speed. Which was fantastic.

[Raidz]

See, the thing is most p99 players like to pat themselves on the back and tell themselves they're "oldschool and hardcore". WoW and other modern MMOs are too easy, they say. There's no challenge, no sense of accomplishment.

P99 players are huge fucking casuals at heart. If something takes too long to kill, then it's boring and not efficient enough. They spend the hardest and longest part of the road to 60 in Chardok, paying for AE pulls instead.

So the thought of VT shard farming, Ssra bane weapons molds farming and actually spending more than 15 seconds per mob while clearing Vex Thal trash, is horrible.

They like it hard, but not too hard. Just hard enough to congratulate themselves for playing "old-school EQ"...



Mostly agree except EQ raiding is such easymode compared to other mmos - zergmode every mob ever.

Classes here are also easy as sh1t. Any melee class - auto attack and kick. Wowzer.

Anyone who disagrees just hasnt played other mmo endgame.

Want real hardmode raids? Go play EQ2 endgame and get back to me.

[Swish]

I loved Paludal. From a sales standpoint they had to have a draw to get people to buy in on Luclin. Paludal's XP was certainly something people talked about.

Anyone remember Ringo the beetle? He was great :D

[Dac321]

I thought Bazaar was lame, and the models.. I guess the rest of it wasn't to bad.

[wormed]

Hated mounts because they required new models. There was a reason why demand for AoN spiked in Luclin when everyone wanted to use a mount while keeping the old models around without relogging.

All the models sucked because the Luclin graphics lacked charm and personality the old ones had in spades. For me the worst were the Ogre and Troll ones because they went from loveable dumb looking/ sour faced cartoons to trying to look badass while at the same time looking lifeless and bland.

Exactly.

I legit NEVER used mounts because I refused to change my models. With Run AA's, I didn't even care about it. I think by that point they weren't even really faster, it was mostly a boon for casters.

[Sampten]

I'm in the minority here but I don't hate Luclin at all. I didn't hate an expansion until GoD. While some don't like the idea of "Cats on the Moon", the actual content in Luclin was pretty good. Luclin had some very fun zones like SSRA, Grieg's End, Akheva Ruins, etc. It had some fun raid mobs, although VT was AWFUL.

AAs were a great addition. It gave you a reason to further your maxed level character.

I don't have an issue with the graphic change that others have. While I don't care for all the models, the graphic upgrade was needed at the time. In my opinion the graphic enhancement/changes should have parlayed across all of the old world, Kunark and Velious zones to keep things consistent.

When Luclin released, I liked that you had to wait 15 minutes for the spires to fire you to the Nexus. In addition, I liked that once you got there, you needed another 5-10+ before they'd fire you back down. That made travel take time.

Some complain about the bazaar, but I actually liked it. While it killed player interaction and haggling, it made it easier to sell things when I wasn't able to be online. I left my machine running 24/7 logged into EQ. When not playing, I was in trader mode. It made moving my gear that I had for sale a lot easier.

All in all, Luclin was a good expansion. PoP was by far my favorite expansion but it did make travel too easy. That being said, the community zone became PoK, which was nice because I felt as though the "community zone" disappeared in Luclin.

[Daldaen]

PoP confirmed best expansion by population, by ratings and by content being best.

[Lorian]

PoP confirmed best expansion by population, by ratings and by content being best.

Makes sense. I started playing about 6 months before PoP and our server was bustling with life when PoP launched. Even though there probably were newbies xping in Paludal Caverns, Blackburrow were full of players, the economy was vibrant and there were a lot more groups around. Even though we were two expansions ahead of Kunark, most people on P99 has better gear than me and my guildies had back then. Min-maxing was not that common.

[zajurai]

It's not classic.

[Grobb 1999]

PoP confirmed best expansion by population, by ratings and by content being best.

New head coach taking credit for previous HC's expansion .

Luclin- great content with a huge cancer/PC zem/bazaar Which gave the game rampant gold farmers.

Pop- more great content with even a bigger cancer/PoK books which destroyed travel and bank/spell vendors.

LoY- more of the same with Supa power race

Instance dungeons with massive zem was the final nail in the coffin.

[Goldrock]

O never really hated PoP for it content i hated the fact thats about when they decided to start the hand holding and mainstreaming it.The community play died down people didnt need Ports anymore and that killed some of the gameplay for the guys who enjoyed porting for gold etc etc.Corpse runs where pointless after the corpse summon guy list goes on community play died.And old school eq players like the game as it is hard .

[Taryth]

O never really hated PoP for it content i hated the fact thats about when they decided to start the hand holding and mainstreaming it.The community play died down people didnt need Ports anymore and that killed some of the gameplay for the guys who enjoyed porting for gold etc etc.Corpse runs where pointless after the corpse summon guy list goes on community play died.And old school eq players like the game as it is hard .

Having played as an Ench on Live during this time period, I would disagree. Groups were very easy to find, being that everyone and their mother's uncle would congregate in PoK. It was like the difference between a grocery store that uses a single long queue (max efficiency per cashier), and multiple individual queues (less efficient since people will not always choose the shortest/quickest line). PoK was like the single queue. Instead of running to XYZ zone and finding no groups avail, you'd wait in PoK and form up a group, which would then head out to XYZ zone.
The whole thing about porters and social interaction is not really relevant because there was never a great deal of interaction. Anyway, even if you argue it that way, the BUFF ROCK replaced all that. Now, instead of trying to get ports everywhere, everyone would head to the buff rock by Main Bank and send tells for buffs. The exact same thing, only a different service.

Idk when shadow rest was implemented, but I don't think it was during PoK. I quit shortly after GoD released because . . . well . . . GoD. I guess I don't really have a specific reason. It just seemed crappy when compared to PoP.

[fadetree]

PoP was the height of EQ's glory imo. Although they had started the hand holding process to be sure, it hadn't really expanded enough to ruin things. After that....not so much.

[Lady Julae]

I myself had a lot of fun with luclin. But I see the devs hate it and am just wondering why. . .

The bazaar made shoping a breeze just turn your mule into an npc while your away doing real life stuff. . .


^^ Pretty much this and the Nexus. And while the avatar graphics were pretty nice, the new combat animations really sucked.

Oh, and the Vah-Shir were just stupid, they could have simply made the Kerrans as a playable race. If they wanted an alien race, they should have just made Rodcet Nife's race as playable. :D

[Vorkon]

A lot of the popularity at the time was due to the fact that gaming was starting to become mainstream, computers/graphic cards had dropped in price significantly, and affordable, reliable and decent internet connections we're available.

PoP was also around the time that other games were starting to take off. I think it had a lot more to do with society and gaming technology as a whole as opposed to anything SOE did to the genre at that time.

When I first got to college I used a 33k cellphone modem for a connection while my school was putting in a T1 line. Those were the days.

[koros]

I don't get why so many people loved PoP but hated Luclin. Granted it wasn't perfect/finished and the new models sucked, but it was so much more like classic EQ than PoP was.

PoP started the trend of making EQ cookie cutter. Everyone's armor was the same based on your archetype. Loot was +40hp/mana/random crap for mid 50s. Top end raid loot was the same way.

Luclin gave us:

Cazic Thule revamp, some of the best class balance eq ever saw,

Tons of single/2/3 group events that dropped nice items:

For instance:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=11711
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=9223
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=1570
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=8082

A lot of interesting ring events. Burrower, Ring of Fire, original Khati Sha (whatever his anagram name was) fight.

Grimling War or the Hollowshade more npc faction war were super cool, if not entirely working.

The very interesting lore of Sanctus Seru and Katta, plus the Sigil quest, etc, etc.

A lot can be blamed on a ton of devs leaving for Sigil, but damn if it didn't have that classic EQ feel to it way more than PoP.

[Swish]

It's happening, people wouldn't say a good word about Luclin a few years back ;)

[Beastro]

It's happening, people wouldn't say a good word about Luclin a few years back ;)

I have nothing against the content of Luclin, I even didn't mind the shard camps even the Maidens Eye one. If anything I wished they'd done more for it since the whole Dark side of the moon feels incomplete and uneven with too little in such a massive place like Katta, Grimlong Forest, Twilight Sea and Tenebrous Mountains feeling under itemized and Acrylia feeling badly neglected even with the revamp.

It's the new models, new soulless graphics in general, mounts on PvP servers, AAs like Manaburn and Bazaar that ruined it for me (Keep in mind I was terrible at buying and selling shit before it came and loathed it's anti-social aspect).

[Samuell]

Several reasons.

Lots hated the bazaar. They say it killed the buyer-seller social interaction. How is that a bad thing? I don't know. I guess people like to lowball with ridiculous offers. I've never had a meaningful interaction while trading, because i treat EC like i treat Wal-Mart. I get in, but my shit, and get out. I don't try to make friends with the cashier.

Lots hated the spires and easier transportation, too. I guess a 30 minutes round trip is too easy. I've never had any meaningful social interaction with a porter either. I'm polite and friendly and i tip decently considering my meager financial means, but i've never had a real conversation with someone that ported me.

I often see the "aliens and spaceship" argument, which is downright parroting the WoW argument when TBC came out. There is no spaceship in Luclin, that was world of warcraft. I guess people need their orcs/frogloks/kobolds to be happy.

The long grind of Luclin is my favorite argument, because it tells a lot about people. Most common complaints heard are "VT shard farming is too long" and "Mobs have too many hitpoints and take forever to die, so it's boring". Now that is funny.

See, the thing is most p99 players like to pat themselves on the back and tell themselves they're "oldschool and hardcore". WoW and other modern MMOs are too easy, they say. There's no challenge, no sense of accomplishment. That's pretty much bullshit, because lots of people refuse to group with hybrids, the xp being too slowed down too much. I've seen people in EC ask for a port to Lavastorm, which is 2 zones away.

P99 players are huge fucking casuals at heart. If something takes too long to kill, then it's boring and not efficient enough. They spend the hardest and longest part of the road to 60 in Chardok, paying for AE pulls instead.

So the thought of VT shard farming, Ssra bane weapons molds farming and actually spending more than 15 seconds per mob while clearing Vex Thal trash, is horrible.

They like it hard, but not too hard. Just hard enough to congratulate themselves for playing "old-school EQ", but not so much to the point where they actually have to pay attention to whats happening in the game because then, they can't watch netflix at the same time.

Luclin absolutely rocks.

Pretty much. Ssraeshza Temple and Vex Thall were cool. They just need to allow PvP in PoK.

I couldn't care less about the bazaar and trading.

[Beastro]

I couldn't care less about the bazaar and trading.

Only good thing about the Bazaar was levitating people in merchant mode, pushing them into the arena and ganking them.

[iruinedyourday]

luclin is:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25736152/EQ/toot.JPG

[Madri]

Luclin was a rushed expansion that had ideas that worked and ideas that were rushed to fill slots.

New Race: Could have been good, but Cats bad idea. They just didn't fit.

New Class: Great idea, not well thought out though, took awhile to balance that class out.

Moon Scenario: Potentially a good idea turned into mush. good number of the zones were not populated, Nor did people want to go there.

New Models: Great idea to modernize the game bring the graphics to the standard of the time, poorly executed.

Custom UI's: Great idea. This allowed the community to contribute to the game. Still to this day feel this should have been added earlier.

AA's: Smart idea to keep a player on one character to progress that character further and group more with others. This was also a flaw because certain AA's were not balanced or thought out well for each class.

Monsters: Were either too strong or not balanced right. AC calculations were off.

Itemization: Was sloppy and just thrown together. Don't get me wrong some items were even designed as jokes , if you all remember the Jenniy's Two-tone Cuirass from Greig's. 9,6,7,5,30,9 <-- Stats -_-'

Bazaar: Ugh not even gonna talk about this. Why just why?

Spires: Was not well thought out , why have porting classes and then make this available?

These are my reasons i did not like Luclin, but liked some of the ideas.

[Swish]

Itemization: Was sloppy and just thrown together. Don't get me wrong some items were even designed as jokes , if you all remember the Jenniy's Two-tone Cuirass from Greig's. 9,6,7,5,30,9 <-- Stats -_-'

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, you're going to have to help me with that one. Something to do with music?

If Nexus portals to wiz spires had been instant I think they'd have overstepped it, but as it was there was a 10-15 minute wait time for them to activate? Not too much shorter than a wait for a boat. Not excusing that it was badly implemented, but expecting people to get off the moon unaided was a bit much I think, especially for casual players or anyone new to the game.

[PDX0621]

Bring back Veksar! Bring back Veksar!

[Kika Maslyaka]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, you're going to have to help me with that one. Something to do with music?

If Nexus portals to wiz spires had been instant I think they'd have overstepped it, but as it was there was a 10-15 minute wait time for them to activate? Not too much shorter than a wait for a boat. Not excusing that it was badly implemented, but expecting people to get off the moon unaided was a bit much I think, especially for casual players or anyone new to the game.

here you go Swish ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WTdTwcmxyo


Also, porters have always been an alternative way of travel to a primary way - like boats. How else would we get to the moon??? Gnomish Rocket Ship?

[Swish]

here you go Swish ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WTdTwcmxyo

Thanks, decent tune... devs had taste, never heard of the song or the band before, must be a Murica thing.

[Clark]

Luclin is the best expansion.

[Eliseus]

Luclin was a rushed expansion that had ideas that worked and ideas that were rushed to fill slots.

New Race: Could have been good, but Cats bad idea. They just didn't fit.

New Class: Great idea, not well thought out though, took awhile to balance that class out.

Moon Scenario: Potentially a good idea turned into mush. good number of the zones were not populated, Nor did people want to go there.

New Models: Great idea to modernize the game bring the graphics to the standard of the time, poorly executed.

Custom UI's: Great idea. This allowed the community to contribute to the game. Still to this day feel this should have been added earlier.

AA's: Smart idea to keep a player on one character to progress that character further and group more with others. This was also a flaw because certain AA's were not balanced or thought out well for each class.

Monsters: Were either too strong or not balanced right. AC calculations were off.

Itemization: Was sloppy and just thrown together. Don't get me wrong some items were even designed as jokes , if you all remember the Jenniy's Two-tone Cuirass from Greig's. 9,6,7,5,30,9 <-- Stats -_-'

Bazaar: Ugh not even gonna talk about this. Why just why?

Spires: Was not well thought out , why have porting classes and then make this available?

These are my reasons i did not like Luclin, but liked some of the ideas.

I'm just going to counter a lot of these views. I respect your views, and its obvious that some people didn't like Luclin, but I think we should also understand that more people than not did like Luclin, which is obvious from the growth of EQ.

New Race: Could have been good, but Cats bad idea. They just didn't fit.

Didn't fit? There is already cat people in the world. I don't really understand how they "didn't fit". If you are referring to just not liking the idea of cats, I agree, cats are terrible, should of been dogs. Seriously though, I thought they looked pretty cool, and aren't really more crazy than lizard people.

New Class: Great idea, not well thought out though, took awhile to balance that class out.

Balancing aside, which exists in all mmos and will always exist. The class was fun, it really was. Playing a game, I'm sure people play it for fun, which many people enjoyed from the beastlord class. It also gave another choice of something to play in the amazing EQ universe.

Moon Scenario: Potentially a good idea turned into mush. good number of the zones were not populated, Nor did people want to go there.


I somewhat agree. I thought it was great, but a lot of zones were not populated at certain times, that isn't anything new in EQ though. There is zones at certain times even on p99 that don't have a significant amount of people in them. No, not just in the middle of the night either.

New Models: Great idea to modernize the game bring the graphics to the standard of the time, poorly executed.

I feel this is kind of irrelevant. Maybe at that time relevant, but irrelevant now. There is obviously games on the market today with far superior graphics to anything EQ. That being said, the graphics in a game is something that I view as very important, but have come to find that people like me are actually a pretty big minority. A lot of people prioritize game play over graphics in there enjoyment in said game or whether to play it or not in general. I do agree though poorly executed, though I like the newer graphics, I hated that everything except weapons started to look the same.

Custom UI's: Great idea. This allowed the community to contribute to the game. Still to this day feel this should have been added earlier.

This is not a reason to claim Luclin is bad.

AA's: Smart idea to keep a player on one character to progress that character further and group more with others. This was also a flaw because certain AA's were not balanced or thought out well for each class.

One of the greatest ideas imo to ever be developed in a game, and something I wish more WoW type clones would adopt, kind of like the way rift does, more specifically, the paragon system in Diablo 3. I do hate though content designed around AAs and wish AAs were even harder to obtain, but something to make your character surpass content without making said content more trivial then it already was, which I don't really have an answer on how to do, unless AAs were deigned with a difficulty level that the goal is to eventually surpass content.

Monsters: Were either too strong or not balanced right. AC calculations were off.

I somewhat agree, I feel it just required more preparation with gear etc. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Itemization: Was sloppy and just thrown together. Don't get me wrong some items were even designed as jokes , if you all remember the Jenniy's Two-tone Cuirass from Greig's. 9,6,7,5,30,9 <-- Stats -_-'

A lot more stat vomit started occurring in Luclin, but some would argue that it started happening in Velious. That being said, luclin had a lot of fun gear, and also had Centi Longswords!

Bazaar: Ugh not even gonna talk about this. Why just why?

Complaining about the Bazaar is ignorant, not really bad, but I feel either a misunderstanding of human interaction that still commonly existed in not just EQ after the bazaar implementation, but mmorpgs in general that have things like auction houses etc, or just pigging backing off the fact that someone else doesn't like the bazaar, so must be bad. You can post on a forums and make it apparent to everyone what you are selling, but having a character in a zone showing what you are selling is different? It aloud more lively economics because people could not only sell whenever they want, but could buy whenever they wanted. The bazaar was definitely no way a negative impact on the game, and in fact, people who are trying to sell things usually faster, will still be shouting to sell said things just as if they were sitting in ecommons. The bazaar did not completely remove this interaction between players as some so wholeheartedly claim.

Spires: Was not well thought out , why have porting classes and then make this available?

You mean those structures that don't take you to as many places as an actual porter? Or the things that have such a long delay that it would be faster to just find someone to port you?

[Beastro]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, you're going to have to help me with that one. Something to do with music?

If Nexus portals to wiz spires had been instant I think they'd have overstepped it, but as it was there was a 10-15 minute wait time for them to activate? Not too much shorter than a wait for a boat. Not excusing that it was badly implemented, but expecting people to get off the moon unaided was a bit much I think, especially for casual players or anyone new to the game.

Only portal(s) should have been from Nk or the giant one in DL.

[Beastro]

Didn't fit? There is already cat people in the world. I don't really understand how they "didn't fit". If you are referring to just not liking the idea of cats, I agree, cats are terrible, should of been dogs. Seriously though, I thought they looked pretty cool, and aren't really more crazy than lizard people.?

Vah Shir were very lore friendly and already established as being the senior cat race that vanished as a result of the Erudite war.

Same with Combine and Shissar, but it started the trend in EQ expacks of finding little relict communities scattered about, especially Combine ones.

I somewhat agree. I thought it was great, but a lot of zones were not populated at certain times, that isn't anything new in EQ though. There is zones at certain times even on p99 that don't have a significant amount of people in them. No, not just in the middle of the night either.

The whole dark side of the moon was largely shit and felt badly under itemized and populated.

Katta was the so big it could have been the center city of the ex pack but wound up being a ghost town from the get go with people only going to get the 100 Cha robe.

A lot more stat vomit started occurring in Luclin, but some would argue that it started happening in Velious. That being said, luclin had a lot of fun gear, and also had Centi Longswords!

After NTOV I don't see what else they could have done. The ex pack at least had a lot of good lower gear and all gear across the board had personality and appeal. It's probably the thing most people can say they liked or hated the least.

[Feathers]

cat people were dumb
bazaar ruined trading
new graphics looked like shit
new ui was dumb
mounts were dumb
porting to nexus was dumb

^^

I never understood, why the moon? That's really jumping the fantasy shark isn't it? I was like, whoa... the moon? It's not like the virtual ocean is going to run out of space for another continent.

[webrunner5]

Luclin is the best expansion.

Here, here, best post on here in 2 years. :D I loved it. Velious about the worse.

[Trelaboon]

There were things I loved about Luclin (Beastlords and AAs) and there were things I hated about it (new models, And nearly every zone and the textures they used)

I'd love to have Beastlords and AAs somehow implemented way down the road on p1999

[BrandeX]

Paludal ZEM was BAD.


The main reason everyone was in Paludal was because the ZEM was so high, besides not to mention the ease of access for any race.

Various sources:
https://www.google.de/search?q=everquest+zem+paludal+caverns&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=9j1lVZrBLsfbsAThg4PADQ

[Breeziyo]

the lore for luclin was pretty cool imo. lizards fighting dragons on an island isnt much less crazy than erudites getting into a huge shitstorm of magic and accidentally copypasting some cat nobility to the moon

[Troxx]

Adding beast lords in without other class spells that came out in luclin would make for some balance problems. A full complement of BL spells would arguably make them very overpowered without others getting their spells as well.

[Byrjun]

Beastlords were a totally pointless class. When their pet buff was an ability they were completely overpowered in a hilarious way, then they just became lame shamans. Their whole class was then centered around the Paragon AA, which they could have just given to druids in the first place. Conceptually the class was interesting I guess, but they didn't fit any sort of role.

Really, Luclin just tried to do way too much. It was too ambitious. The "improved" graphics and models divided the player base when it came to agreeing if they were really an improvement. It felt like they wanted to really improve the game graphically, but didn't really have the technical means to properly do so.

The mount system was another interesting idea that was implemented poorly. The mounts forced you to use the strange new character models, and they didn't control very well. Unfortunately they had an impact on gameplay (being able to meditate while casting) so certain classes were kinda forced into using something that was frustrating.

The raids were pretty cool. Emperor Ssra was epic, and then you got to Vex Thal which was a total boner killer. It was an unfinished mess and even after a few updates it was just a boring slog fest where every mob looked the same and had the same abilities, even bosses. It was so disappointing after experiencing raid events like the Cursed cycle and Shei Venitras.

So yeah, like I said they were just a bit too ambitious. They changed the game so much it started to feel foreign. A lot of content was either hit or miss. Luclin did have a lot of positive contributions to the game though, like the revamped Flowing Thought system, focus effect items, and AAs. Basically, outside of Vex Thal the gameplay improved, but the world suffered a bit for it.

Overall it wasn't a terrible expansion. Planes of Power was essentially an attempt to do Luclin again and they were a lot more successful the second time.

[Deadmantis]

I was taking a break from EQ after getting burned out from Velious to play DaOC with friends when Luclin was released. After some convincing from guildies I decided to come back to EQ and got the xpac a couple months after release. Everything was rushed from that point on for me, I had to catch up to whatever it was everyone else was doing.

Eventually I got to enjoy quite a bit of the content, and I don't hate it like some others do. For me it will always be that expansion that I just wasn't quite ready for. I was like a fish out of water.

[tizznyres]

Somewhere during Luclin's development is when an important part of the core development / design team left Verant / SoE, and it really showed. Because of this Luclin deviated quite far from the game's original vision, and the later expansions continued down that route.

Nexus ruined the idea of travel meaning something, made the existing world feel much smaller, and made travel through old-world zones completely trivial. It didn't entirely ruin, but certainly damaged the player interaction of finding ports and helping other players by giving them ports, thus killing one of the greatest aspects of Druids and Wizards.

Nexus (bazaar) also ruined trading by removing almost all of the individual effort and player interaction required to be a successful trader. All but killed EC / Gfay / North Freeport trade-hubbing in a single fell swoop. A huge amount of my time played during classic EverQuest was wheeling and dealing in Gfay (the trade hub on Xegony) and in EC on Fennin Ro. To see those zones become almost completely barren within days of Luclin was a massive disappointment for me.

Mounts, while potentially a neat feature and improvement to the game were done in such a way as to require many players to use them, and as such, use the Luclin character models.

The Luclin character models were higher polycount with higher resolution textures, but lacked almost all of the 'character' and charm of old-world models. Myself and many of my friends at the time hated them, and turning them off on P99 was one of the first things I did when I started.

Kerran race and Beastlord class I could go either way on.

AA's were a great improvement to the late-game and end-game, hands down my personal favorite feature, and something I felt EQ needed for a long time before that... Something to spend time on at lvl 50/60 that wasn't raiding the game's very limited raid content.

All-in-all, I would not say I hated luclin, nor did any of my friends at the time, rather it represented the beginning of the end of what was our obsession for 3+ years. I played several months into Luclin and enjoyed a lot of the time grinding AA's and raiding Ssra / keying for VT. I never personally made it into VT raiding, as I quit before it was really doable on Xegony.

[Lojik]

I hate the way its pronounced

[TheRusty]

Lizard people don't lick their anuses when cleaning themselves

I must have missed that animation.

Seriously, the only argument ever made against Vah Shir is this:

ZOMG FURRIES ARGH RARGH GLARGARGGBBBLLLEEERRRGGGG!

Which is stupid, because, hey, elves. Four kinds of elves! There's your "otherkin" BS character right there.

What's next. The graphics? What? The world isn't rendered exclusively in right angles? THE HORROR. The models? Turn off the luclin models, you don't have to use them. In fact i recommend it, that way you still see all the nice velious armor. I personally really liked the Luclin world graphics, because they didn't look like someone had blown up a low-resolution jpeg x2000 and smeared it across the world.

The interface? yeah well, that's the interface we're using on P99 anyway, like it or not.

The bazaar? Pissed people off because it didn't work until really late in the expansion. Neat thing is, if it' a problem, it can be disabled. It'll be just like classic luclin that way.

"Aliens"? Oh lawd, you can use a talking dirt clod to beat up a frog that casts spells and threatens you from beyond the grave while snakes kick you, but some dude with a big walnut head stretches it for you? Gimme a break.

The raiding was an endless grind? Yes. Yes it was. Somehow, most of the game got by just fine without worrying greatly about the raiding game.

AA's ruined the game? Well. Now we have an argument worth making! Yes, we could definitely say that these were a net negative to the game. some classes got pretty much nothing, others got fixes that should have been inherent to the class, and others got broken-ass manaburn. Then you have the AoE groups slurping up light blue mobs in barely-level dungeons, preventing players in the proper range from using them. AA's were a right fine mess, that's for sure.

[webrunner5]

I loved Luclin, Hated Velious on average. :p Too damn much Snow and Wind blowing all the time. Made me want to move to Florida, which I did. :D

[Champion_Standing]

I don't get why people think that the bazaar and nexus had a negative impact on social interaction in the game. If anything it let me spend more time on more meaningful social interaction hanging out with my guild and friends instead of spending an entire night or even multiple days watching auction spam looking for an item I want. I dunno about you guys but spending the night grouping or raiding was a lot more fun than spending the night sending dozens of "will you take xx for that" tells.

[Lady Julae]

...

Alternate abilities made it so alot of classes were useful and gave you a reason to keep playing your main even after you hit 60.

The bazaar ...
<SNIP>

...bane weapons and lucid shards were a pain in the ass. Also the raid targets had a bunch of hp.

Basically this, especially #2.

Also AA's made a lot of classes also cookie-cutter, as raid leaders would require you to have a certain amount of AA's in a specific skill to raid with them - leading to a player's character not being unique at all, but like all the rest of the people on the server.

[Lady Julae]

...I often see the "aliens and spaceship" argument, which is downright parroting the WoW argument when TBC came out. There is no spaceship in Luclin, that was world of warcraft. I guess people need their orcs/frogloks/kobolds to be happy...

Except the the giant one parked in North Qeynos being used as Rodcet Nife's Temple. :D

[Daldaen]

I don't get why people think that the bazaar and nexus had a negative impact on social interaction in the game. If anything it let me spend more time on more meaningful social interaction hanging out with my guild and friends instead of spending an entire night or even multiple days watching auction spam looking for an item I want. I dunno about you guys but spending the night grouping or raiding was a lot more fun than spending the night sending dozens of "will you take xx for that" tells.

Fact.

[chipz]

You all must be high as fuck. Your biggest argument is player interaction...are you kidding me? I think you're just anti social crybabies and everyone left your favorite zone so you sat there and pouted. I played from Kunark all the way through LDoN and I never once, at any level, had a problem finding a group or interacting with other players. The world was huge and still took plenty of time to travel and trough my travels, I still met countless of players. Grow up and get rid of your social anxiety over a video game. There was no destroyed social interaction, if anything, it improved greatly. Peace nerds.

[Lady Julae]

...Warping to outer space like we're on a NASA mission is quite the stretch for a D&D type MMO...

And yet, Rodcet Nife did it in his space ship. :D

[Orruar]

And yet, Rodcet Nife did it in his space ship. :D

Or warping around the world like some kind of Star Trek transporter. People just looking for excuses to hate something when the truth is they were growing tired of the game and wanted a reason to move on. Some people needed to blame the game so they feel their actions are justified.

[Lady Julae]

i have to say that this option didn't help because It still affected how others were seeing me. I didn't like the fact that other players were looking at different models than me. It broke my immersion.

But how would you ever know someone was using the Luclin models to view your "classic" avatar? And with a toggle switch, a player could easily switch to classic mode and say, "Okay, instead of looking like a human, you look like a bunch of square rocks with a mustache."

[slappytwotoes]

Fact.

Alls I know is, when I started P99 and saw the EC tunnel for the first time I got a huge smile on my face. EC Tunnel = Classic

Look, if the game had started with a bazaar zone, no one would be bitchin about it. But the Bazaar replaced something completely player made and emergent with something sterile.

The #1 rule devs learned from the first MMOs is don't destroy emergent gameplay.

[Jimjam]

Sadly most devs learnt to treat emergent gameplay as unintended exploit and nerf it!

[Grizzler]

Except the the giant one parked in North Qeynos being used as Rodcet Nife's Temple. :D

This is so damn true. Some folks just don't remember that EQ had spaceships AT LAUNCH. In the end, I could care less if luclin is in or not but it's funny how folks forget certain things when those things don't support their arguments.

[Tann]

Luclin models were meh, zones were meh, raids were meh (except Gregg's End, that was crackers), xpac as a whole was meh.

It went from a good - great - meh - great (Kunark - Velious - Luclin - PoP), that's personally why I dislike thinking about Luclin and its shiny new character models.

[Daldaen]

Luclin had fantastic raid events. People like to just point out Vex Thal. While it is a raid zone, it was hardly the only raid in the expansion.

Shei in AR is probably the best event from Luclin. Had death adds to punish zerging, had timed spawns to encourage CC, had mix of unmezzable and unslowable mobs so you had to off tank with knights some types and mez other types, had a mana drain to encourage correct positioning, had a death touch to put a timer on the event and encourage tank swaps.

Emperor, High Priest, Creator, Cursed and Arch Lich in Ssra all were fantastic as well.

LIS was neat because of banes.

The Deep's Thought Horror Overfiend event was sweet too. As were the Acrylia Cavern Ring events.

Umbrella Planes offered a nice selection of casual raid targets.

Vex Thal's events were largely boring but pulling was fun in there.

Luclin also added the ability to have multiple chat boxes and item linking (some of you would quit if we went back to a single box and no item linking like Velious had...). This is probably my favorite thing about the Luclin hate. People will cry all day at you over how horrible the expansion was. But the second you most a bug post to remove a Luclin addition they cry even harder because that addition is really nice.

Yes, EC Died. But that's for the best. NO one likes dealing with resellers, used car salesmen or bro-dudes who tell you the item you're selling isn't worth close to what you're asking. People are greedy and not having to deal with them directly when it comes to money in game was a fantastic change. Never did I make a trade deal where I was extremely pleased with the interaction... Only pleased with the item I ended up with. Buying from someone at T1 or in Bazaar was irrelevant.

[Tann]

Yes, EC Died. But that's for the best.

QTF

Being able to quickly zone into the Bazaar and search for the item(s) I wanted and get out asap was great. It's like shopping by yourself vs. shopping with your gf/wife, one takes 5min, the other takes 5 hours.

[Lady Julae]

This is so damn true. Some folks just don't remember that EQ had spaceships AT LAUNCH. In the end, I could care less if luclin is in or not but it's funny how folks forget certain things when those things don't support their arguments.

And if you look at the picture of Rodcet Nife he looks very similar to a "classic (no pun intended) grey" alien.

[Lady Julae]

QTF

Being able to quickly zone into the Bazaar and search for the item(s) I wanted and get out asap was great. It's like shopping by yourself vs. shopping with your gf/wife, one takes 5min, the other takes 5 hours.

EC shopping only took 5 hours IF you shopped like a girl. :)

[dafier]

Personally I loved everything about Luclin. Well, almost.

Bazaar = WAY better to deal with. Yes, no interaction but who wants to send a /tell along with 20 others who want the same item only to either 1, go without a response, 2, get a stupid response like 'T1 9 million pp'.

Bazaar, the seller gets what they want without dealing with /tells and the buyer has the chance to run over, buy, and be done with it without hassle.

AAs: I thought they were a nice addition to the single dynamic of just leveling. They added small perks and bonuses that helped.

Mounts: Blah imo....

SSRA and other level 60 added content was spectacular. Vex Thal = crazy awesome. You had to be ELITE to get all the shards.

The main problem with that expansion imo, it wasn't out long enough. People were doing VT/SSRA well in to PoP because they missed out.

Last: I DO believe that Luclin killed classic EQ. SoE DID cater to the whiners. At the same time, they were trying to evolve with the times....I think PoP killed it for me due to several factors but mainly for turning the Mage Epic pet in to a worthless item for what was the most important thing a Mage could have in game.

In comparison, it would be the same as taking IC away from wizards in the Kunark time frame of EQ.

When you take away bread and butter that wasn't easy to obtain in the first place, it turns stuff stupid.

[leftharted]

I mained a Cleric from kunark-LDoN(ish) era.. forgot when exactly I fell off the horse..

but as a cleric, I absolutely LOVED the horses. don't care what anyone thinks. Having the meditate mana regen while casting was epic; and I was a boss and dropping off that horse and canceling a CH when needed. If I recall correctly the top speed horse was just under Bard travel; but still about double SoW. I imagine the horses were very kind to other casters as well; not so much melee.

I agree with everyone that the luclin main hub kinda broke other features. I concur that the ports really destroyed the Vastness of norrath. I personally don't want luclin; but I want the horses, and I would love to just have the bazaar feature.

Im not sure how impossible it would be; but what about putting in the bazaar 'code' so that we can setup AFK bazaar toons in the EC tunnel?? the tunnel is already littered with AFK people lining the walls; what if the tunnel was the bazaar zone, and you could setup your AFK /bazaar in the tunnel?

I love the EC tunnel, and the need to travel to and from it; but I would HATE having to actually stand there and spam my wares in auction every 2min.... boring as hell. And as others have stated, not much real social interaction anyways.

Also, on the point of personable 'haggling' ... you can still /auction to buy something at gouged prices with the bazaar in place, and hope to find an idiot thatll take your price. And, their was plenty of price gouging in the bazaar anyways... my Brother (as an enc) would lowball all the listed jewelry, putting out the other enchanters; but he made BANK. business is business; was totally fair in my eyes. Same with Shaman PoTs.


just my 2cp.

[Jimjam]

Last: I DO believe that Luclin killed classic EQ. SoE DID cater to the whiners. At the same time, they were trying to evolve with the times....I think PoP killed it for me due to several factors but mainly for turning the Mage Epic pet in to a worthless item for what was the most important thing a Mage could have in game.

In comparison, it would be the same as taking IC away from wizards in the Kunark time frame of EQ.

When you take away bread and butter that wasn't easy to obtain in the first place, it turns stuff stupid.

How do you think SoE could have handled the epic pet problem better?

Perhaps a focus item that only worked on the epic pet, then a no drop scroll 'mega pet' from each of the four elemental planes finally followed by a ridiculously OP 'time elemental' pet that could drop from quarm?

[Credge]

I've never really liked auction houses in MMO's. It removed the focus from items and puts it on currency that never really has any value. Every MMO needs money sinks to remove currency from the game, and EQ's is primarily the food system.

AH's work in some MMO's. Those games have tons of ways to remove currency from the game. EQ? Not so much.

To put it in to perspective, when I can kill a single monster and it drops enough currency to last me a week of play time, there's not enough currency being removed from the game.

[Champion_Standing]

I've never really liked auction houses in MMO's. It removed the focus from items and puts it on currency that never really has any value. Every MMO needs money sinks to remove currency from the game, and EQ's is primarily the food system.

AH's work in some MMO's. Those games have tons of ways to remove currency from the game. EQ? Not so much.

To put it in to perspective, when I can kill a single monster and it drops enough currency to last me a week of play time, there's not enough currency being removed from the game.

Wait so how does that change with or without the bazaar?

[Jimjam]

I don't know, he talks about auction houses and then plat sinks....

I'm guessing he wants a % based tax implemented to the bazaar to nom nom spare p p!!

[Swish]

<IRS> should be a new guild patrolling tunnel ensuring a duty is paid on every purchase.

[Credge]

I'm saying there aren't enough ways that EQ removes currency for an auction house to work without it causing super inflation. Right now we see people barter, and it's this bartering that keeps items relatively in check.

We saw super inflation in EQ very fast after Luclin came out. I don't recall there being any great money sinks in Luclin either. Since I quit during Luclin I don't know what Sony did to fix this.

[Messianic]

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm7.staticflickr.com%2F6120%2F63 77976535_65801e00c8_z.jpg&f=1

Cats on the moon did not sit well with some from what I have read here.

I always wonder if they'd have been okay with Cats from inside the earth. Or Cats from Kerra Isle.

Just seems like a dumb beef over some of the genuine problems already covered ad nauseum here.

[Jimjam]

I think vendor bought potions could be tweaked to be a more appealing cash sink, but not on this server. That's not classic!

[Tann]

EC shopping only took 5 hours IF you shopped like a girl. :)

If you don't mind the rats getting fatter then sure do a quick in and out.

[falkun]

I don't recall there being any great money sinks in Luclin either.
BiS purchasable mounts were 104kPP (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=8629).

[Jimjam]

BiS purchasable mounts were 104kPP (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/npc.html?id=8629).

oh, zing!

[Lady Julae]

Adding beast lords in without other class spells that came out in luclin would make for some balance problems. A full complement of BL spells would arguably make them very overpowered without others getting their spells as well.

When has classic EQ ever been about balance?

[Kika Maslyaka]

Warping to a plane where a certain god or demi-god rules is aligned with classic EverQuest lore. Warping to outer space like we're on a NASA mission is quite the stretch for a D&D type MMO.

Oh you so wrong ;)

Do you aware that DnD has other dimensions/realities, travel to moons, planets, stars, spaceships and lasers?

Lets take Illithids - one of the most coveted npc races of DND:

The 3.5 Edition D&D supplement Lords of Madness provides that the Illithid were a star-faring people who existed at the end of time. Facing annihilation, the Illithid traveled to the past, arriving roughly 2000 years before the present in any given D&D campaign.

Hows that for classical DnD fantasy? ;)

[thufir]

Paludal emptied out every other zone in the same level range. It was terrible.

Yay, someone mentioned Paludal and how it killed every other zone in its level range. There was no real reason to go anywhere else, so nobody did. The old dungeons became ghost towns.

AAs did its part to that too, oddly; fewer alts means less populated lower level zones. EQ is a game that is tremendously dependent on well populated zones as a rule, so the game became more top heavy and the lower level game got weaker as a result.

Add the nexus and the bazaar to that and it becomes more obvious why this is the turning point for a lot of people. Luclin was the expansion that fundamentally changed a lot of how EQ felt. You could like or dislike that change but it was a change. All through Velious the old axioms were still in place.

[kremlar]

The 3.5 Edition D&D supplement Lords of Madness provides that the Illithid were a star-faring people who existed at the end of time. Facing annihilation, the Illithid traveled to the past, arriving roughly 2000 years before the present in any given D&D campaign.

Hows that for classical DnD fantasy? ;)

3.5 ain't classic. thac0 or gtfo

[Axlrose]

I read through this whole thread, and for a while, I thought I was back on the Eve Online forums...

Taking an aspect from that game and applying it here, IF the powers to be decided to implement a bazaar type feature without opening the Luclin expansion, then I offer a suggestion.

First - instead of East Commonlands tunnel covering the whole game world, perhaps it has the eastern portion of the map as a region only. Thus another bazaar area could be located near Qeynos to cover Erudin, another bazaar located somewhere in Greater Faydark, two more bazaars in Firionia Vie and the Overthere, and once Velious opens a bazaar at their starting zone (name escapes me at the moment). Thus the potential of different markets with different prices for the same items. And similar to Eve Online, some players might play the markets instead of grinding the same mob again.

Second - advertising your wares and being active at the keyboard means you could sell for free. But if you decide to go away for a bit, but still online, then pay a hourly broker's fee to keep your wares listed on a market board (an add-on to the game - people crowding around the boards, looking for goods, and seeing who is selling). This fee could be based upon a percentage of your total wares for sale; so every hour it is automatically deducted from your wallet. If you run out of money, then you are evicted from seller's mode. Or they could implement a non-playing character as your market mule and selling your wares. You have the option of being offline too. But this route would be the most expensive of them all. Payments are removed from a deposit your added and / or taken from offline sales with the same option of being evicted from selling mode once the money is gone.

Third - profit?

[Lady Julae]

...Taking an aspect from that game and applying it here, IF the powers to be decided to implement a bazaar type feature without opening the Luclin expansion, then I offer a suggestion...

I would not mind the bazaar so much if the seller could not go AFK. The main issue I had with the bazaar was all the AFK sellers. If I saw an item I know was way overpriced, I had no way of haggling them down to a more reasonable value. Likewise, you could not trade with an AFK seller with items, only coin, which what makes the EC Tunnel superior in that people without coin can make decent trades.

To even consider a bazaar on P99, I would require the following:

1. No AFK selling. GM random checks for ATK play. If AFK, no ban, but server boot. This will make the area less laggy and free up choice space in the bull pens.
2. No Shared banks.
3. No 2-boxing (Your 4 year old "son/daughter" cannot be selling while you are playing).

4. IF AFK Selling is allowed: Bazaar players must be level 20+ to sell in the area. This will prevent RMT mules from getting quick gold to sell and will inhibit gold farming all together. Two-boxing rules still apply.

[Neno]

3.5 ain't classic. thac0 or gtfo

nah man there was that time we had to go to Greyhawk's moon Luna and fight Iggwilv to save Tenser's mutated clone.

[tizznyres]

I read through this whole thread, and for a while, I thought I was back on the Eve Online forums...

Taking an aspect from that game and applying it here, IF the powers to be decided to implement a bazaar type feature without opening the Luclin expansion, then I offer a suggestion.

First - instead of East Commonlands tunnel covering the whole game world, perhaps it has the eastern portion of the map as a region only. Thus another bazaar area could be located near Qeynos to cover Erudin, another bazaar located somewhere in Greater Faydark, two more bazaars in Firionia Vie and the Overthere, and once Velious opens a bazaar at their starting zone (name escapes me at the moment). Thus the potential of different markets with different prices for the same items. And similar to Eve Online, some players might play the markets instead of grinding the same mob again.

Second - advertising your wares and being active at the keyboard means you could sell for free. But if you decide to go away for a bit, but still online, then pay a hourly broker's fee to keep your wares listed on a market board (an add-on to the game - people crowding around the boards, looking for goods, and seeing who is selling). This fee could be based upon a percentage of your total wares for sale; so every hour it is automatically deducted from your wallet. If you run out of money, then you are evicted from seller's mode. Or they could implement a non-playing character as your market mule and selling your wares. You have the option of being offline too. But this route would be the most expensive of them all. Payments are removed from a deposit your added and / or taken from offline sales with the same option of being evicted from selling mode once the money is gone.

Third - profit?

There are all sorts of pros and cons to both a bazaar / auction house type system, or a system that requires complete player participation. These pros and cons depend heavily on the individual player, and what they want to spend their time on in a game. Many people have less time to play, or simply would rather not spend a lot of time engaging in arguably boring trading.

Others, like myself, vastly prefer a trading system where greater individual participation, personal drive, and knowledge of the market(s) yields much greater personal reward. I also enjoy the idea of bartering and haggling, as they are extremely canon to a fantasy RPG world, and help scratch my roleplaying itch.

That being said, I think you have some great ideas there, and I would have enjoyed seeing something like that implemented when Bazaar was, or sooner as you say. Perhaps the most tedious and annoying aspect of classic EverQuest trading, was having to link, or even short-hand write posts with dozens of very low-value, low-desirability tradeskill items, research pieces, and other smaller pieces. Trying to sell these things for a more established trader quickly becomes much more trouble than they are worth. This tends to make items that should be cheap and common, actually quite difficult to find.

To that end I would have very much liked to see a system that reduced or eliminated some of the tedium involved with trading many low-value items. Even if you don't mind the issue of having to spam and keep track of many, many small items, limited inventory and bank space is an issue, and you are forced to maintain several bank alts near the trade zone.