Which is more solo friendly...

[kuuky]

...Monk or SK?


Since the class penalties will be lifted very soon and I generally solo (due to play time) and playing my druid is getting really boring I am asking for advice from the experts.

I have an Ogre SK and an Iksar monk both lvl 21. Which one would be easier to solo to 60 if I even make it that high. I have a fungi and Fbss and about 20k to spend to twink them further. I am in no rush to 60 as my druid is only 52 and I've been playing on and off since launch. I am easily distracted and need to take occasional afk breaks (kids/wife) suddenly and so that is why I prefer a class with FD. Thanks for the advice in advance.

[Swish]

Monk for sure, especially with a fungi ;)

SKs can be more of a problem to level. Not just because their DPS is lower but they're sometimes overlooked after CoM when people are grinding out 51-60.

Suddenly getting grouped in KC in particular is very difficult, monks "can" tank in KC and often do, especially if there's a fungi involved.

SKs struggle with dps more and more vs mob health as the levels go by, I fear kite in KC on my SK (52) while LFG and it takes a long long time ;)

[Grobb 1999]

Did troll SK from beta to OoW for reference

The solo game comparing the two- Monk is easy/normal mode vs SK hard mode.

[iruinedyourday]

A twinked monk you can solo like pretty much up to 50+ afaik

[kuuky]

Thank you all for the advice. I will proceed with the monk

[Oleris]

soloed 1-51 on my monk in 3-4 weeks. He had 140k+ of gear including fungi, t-staff though.

[fastboy21]

if you are solo'ing then it is probably just a matter of time. it is far "easier" (i.e. less time) to level a monk to 60 than an sk.

monks can solo better than an SK with the right gear. no exp penalty. monks also find grps easier than an SK if you plan on solo'ing between groups. in fact, its not even close monks are extremely group friendly.

[holsteinrx7]

Sk is group, monk most versatile melee. Monk does have penalty. Most sks quit from 50-54. Because of unlove and weak melee skills.

[Itap]

Sk is group, monk most versatile melee. Monk does have penalty. Most sks quit from 50-54. Because of unlove and weak melee skills.

Not to mention how grueling 54 is with the experience penalty

[GinnasP99]

A twinked monk you can solo like pretty much up to 50+ afaik

I solo blue con mobs at 59, no fungi.

[webrunner5]

Not to mention how grueling 54 is with the experience penalty

Yeah , but a Iksar Monk has a Higher XP penalty than a SK other than Toll, Iksar. 44% versus 40%. But a Monk can kill a LOT faster to make it up and go ahead of a SK. And a Iksar is pretty much to me the ONLY way to go solo Monk wise.

But I do like playing my Iksar SK, just holding of untill Velious to level it up more. Just too hard now to bother now. :eek:

[Swish]

Do have a chuckle though if there's an iksar monk in the group protesting about hybrid xp... a lot of them don't realize they've got more than a racial penalty.

[Tulnavara]

Ogre SK is 61% penalty, Iksar Monk is "only" 44%.

[drktmplr12]

if you are solo'ing then it is probably just a matter of time. it is far "easier" (i.e. less time) to level a monk to 60 than an sk.

monks can solo better than an SK with the right gear. no exp penalty. monks also find grps easier than an SK if you plan on solo'ing between groups. in fact, its not even close monks are extremely group friendly.

Monks have a 20% penalty

[webrunner5]

Monks have a 20% penalty

A HUMAN Monk has a 20%, Iksar is 44% total. Iksar, Troll SK is 68%.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Sortable_Race_Class_Matrix

So a Iksar Monk is worse than any other class to have in a group other than a Iksar, Troll SK. Pally, Ranger, Bard, normal SK, etc. is 40% penalty.

[Temig]

The statement that MONKS have a 20% penalty is perfectly correct - especially given the context of correcting someone specifically referencing the class as having no penalty. Yes, Iksar Monks have more of one, but that's because of their racial penalty.

With regards to saying that an Iksar Monk is worse than other other class to have in a group... that's only if you're grouping purely based on level. Ideally, you want to group based on total character xp which ends up with everyone getting the same xp per kill even if there's a multiple level gap between characters.

[webrunner5]

The statement that MONKS have a 20% penalty is perfectly correct - especially given the context of correcting someone specifically referencing the class as having no penalty. Yes, Iksar Monks have more of one, but that's because of their racial penalty.

With regards to saying that an Iksar Monk is worse than other other class to have in a group... that's only if you're grouping purely based on level. Ideally, you want to group based on total character xp which ends up with everyone getting the same xp per kill even if there's a multiple level gap between characters.

Iksar Monks are worse than having a Pally XP wise. What don't you get? 44% penalty versus 40%. Swish said it in a tongue in check way very well. Iksar Monks on average have no clue how much they drag down a group at high levels to getting XP. Faster to have a Ranger pull in outdoor zones with Harmony, KC, CoM comes to mind, than a Iksar Monk and they have less of a XP penality.

Bottom line is a Iksar Monk is a drag on a group looking for min max XP high levels. YMMV. They end up being like a Hybrid like it or not.

[Clark]

Monk for sure, especially with a fungi ;)

SKs can be more of a problem to level. Not just because their DPS is lower but they're sometimes overlooked after CoM when people are grinding out 51-60.

Suddenly getting grouped in KC in particular is very difficult, monks "can" tank in KC and often do, especially if there's a fungi involved.

SKs struggle with dps more and more vs mob health as the levels go by, I fear kite in KC on my SK (52) while LFG and it takes a long long time ;)

[webrunner5]

I would agree with Swish on that Quote completely. :D

[Rangerboy]

SKs are hard to play, at least I think so. I had the SK epic on the live server too and I didnt think it was all that good for the work put into it. Ratman guard sucked, took FOREVER. I think monks are funner to play, easier to level and more dps.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Sk is group, monk most versatile melee. Monk does have penalty. Most sks quit from 50-54. Because of unlove and weak melee skills.

Monks have a 1.2x modifier to xp and sk have a 1.4x BEFORE racial considerations. Also remember to multiply mods, not add them. So a human sk would have a 1.4x modifier all told and a iksar monk would have 1.68x (1.2 x 1.4)

[Kutsumo]

a iksar monk would have 1.68x (1.2 x 1.4)

Eh?

[Danth]

Old computing saying: garbage in, garbage out.

Detroit: Your arithmetic is correct but you have the wrong value for the Iksar penalty. They have a 20% racial penalty, not 40%. As such you want 1.2 (monk class) times 1.2 (Iksar racial), or a 44% total penalty. It's still higher than a standard hybrid modifier , though only marginally so. As a side note, Iksar Necromancers also have a 32% penalty--not too much less than a hybrid--although nobody much cares since Necromancers hardly ever group anyway.

Prior to about level 22, Monks will solo more easily than Shadow Knights, even with bad gear. Shadow Knights can't fear until 15, and because the level 15 snare is so poor fear-kiting doesn't become practical until level 22. From 22 through the 30's I feel Shadow Knights have a somewhat easier time solo thanks to fear kiting with a lot of zones to pick from. At 40+ the places for good fear kiting become a lot more limited, and at 50+ there are only a couple places to do so effectively. Damage output is low enough that experience rates are charitably described as slow. Monk damage output scales a lot better past level 50 so they end up pulling ahead again, especially in conjunction with better equipment. That being said, neither class solo's terribly well at 50+ compared to any of the typical solo classes.

Long-term, it's worth remembering that the Kunark-Velious era was the heyday for the Monk class. Hybrids, including the Shadow Knight, also see improvements with Velious-era class changes, but the Monk remains the more powerful class overall. Folks who stick with hybrids tend to be the folks who want to play one in the first place and who are okay with giving up some raw power. Most players who have no preference between the Monk and the Shadow Knight will enjoy the Monk more overall.

Danth

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Danth ty =)

[webrunner5]

I have a level 105 SK on live with over 11,000 AA's, yeah really 11,000, hell I think you can go to 15k or more, and it still can't solo shit. A SK never had DPS worth a crap and never will. It is a gimped class just like a Pally.

And Damage Mitigation wise a Warrior still is a hands down winner on that part. A Monk is up there also. That is why they can Tank in KC nearly as good as a SK, Pally, and oh by the way, a Monk can actually kill something to boot.. :D

[bktroost]

Sks are great offtanks, tanks of trash on raid mobs and good for anything that doesn't hit terribly hard but needs high aggro, like Sister of the Spire and Venril Sathir... that's where they shine and really have a place in the world of EQ. Whether you get there by soloing or grouping is like focusing on what controller you want to use to turn on the TV. The real show is after 60.

That's true for most classes though, yet a lot of people quit after 60.

[Kutsumo]

I have a level 105 SK on live with over 11,000 AA's, yeah really 11,000, hell I think you can go to 15k or more, and it still can't solo shit. A SK never had DPS worth a crap and never will. It is a gimped class just like a Pally.

And Damage Mitigation wise a Warrior still is a hands down winner on that part. A Monk is up there also. That is why they can Tank in KC nearly as good as a SK, Pally, and oh by the way, a Monk can actually kill something to boot.. :D

Mine is level 100 with only 9k AAs, but if you blow your load with Visage, first spire, crimson blade, gouging blade you can do some serious burst DPS - plus with 2.0 up you're lifetapping 70% of that DPS back and don't need heals. SK is a hell of a class on live, and by far the best group tank with pally close behind and warrior needing to med for endurance on long grinds.

Anyway, that's not the point in this thread. We won't have any of that crap here. Monk is obviously a very, very strong class in this time period and it's hard for anything to compete when directly compared.

[Loke]

Normally Id say monk, but having helped some friends level hybrids recently theyre actually really easy to solo on. Monks are nice if you dont want to think as much and just grind, but the added utility from hybrid spells opens up a lot of options if you spend the time to maximize your efficiency. I dont have a ton of experience with leveling an SK, but pallys and rangers can solo very well if you gear and play the class to its full potential.

Personally id worry less about the leveling and decide which role you like more. Do you want to raid at 60, and if so, would you rather do it on a monk or sk? Do you like tanking or dps? Both will be able to solo, so weigh the factors other than soloing to decide which to play.

[webrunner5]

Normally Id say monk, but having helped some friends level hybrids recently theyre actually really easy to solo on. Monks are nice if you dont want to think as much and just grind, but the added utility from hybrid spells opens up a lot of options if you spend the time to maximize your efficiency. I dont have a ton of experience with leveling an SK, but pallys and rangers can solo very well if you gear and play the class to its full potential.

Personally id worry less about the leveling and decide which role you like more. Do you want to raid at 60, and if so, would you rather do it on a monk or sk? Do you like tanking or dps? Both will be able to solo, so weigh the factors other than soloing to decide which to play.

Well there is NO doubt when the Hybrid penalty comes off in Velious after a couple of months, well probably couple of years from now on here lol, we will see a LOT of SKs, Pallys, Rangers, Bards running around, including some of my lower level ones lol. :D

[Grobb 1999]

Prior to about level 22, Monks will solo more easily than Shadow Knights, even with bad gear. Shadow Knights can't fear until 15, and because the level 15 snare is so poor fear-kiting doesn't become practical until level 22. From 22 through the 30's I feel Shadow Knights have a somewhat easier time solo thanks to fear kiting with a lot of zones to pick from. At 40+ the places for good fear kiting become a lot more limited, and at 50+ there are only a couple places to do so effectively. Damage output is low enough that experience rates are charitably described as slow. Monk damage output scales a lot better past level 50 so they end up pulling ahead again, especially in conjunction with better equipment. That being said, neither class solo's terribly well at 50+ compared to any of the typical solo classes.


You get -no debuff- or decent snare till 40s? And unless it's really different here compared to the live velious I remember fear kiting just reminds you how little DPS you really have and wasn't what I would call dependable xp

[RevengeofGio]

It's so odd because on live during kunark.. hybrids were some of the most popular classes. Rangers were near the top.

[iruinedyourday]

It's so odd because on live during kunark.. hybrids were some of the most popular classes. Rangers were near the top.

cus it was all about fun back then, man.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/Joon01/Simpsons%20Misc/snapshot20070607180109.jpg

[RevengeofGio]

cus it was all about fun back then, man.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q104/Joon01/Simpsons%20Misc/snapshot20070607180109.jpg

You'd think 15 years later it would be too right? lol

Oh NOW we're serious lol... we missed that boat by 15 years!

[Danth]

Well, not just that, but folks at the time didn't know what the future held. It was pretty widely believed that weaker classes would see improvements. Today we have the benefit of both hindsight and knowing where P1999 will stop. The issue isn't just a matter of Monks being stronger today, but also knowing that they'll be stronger forever. Folks who're happiest playing hybrids on P1999 are folks like me who'll make them regardless--power be damned. I'd never make a Monk or Warrior, so for me it isn't even a choice between them and hybrids so much as between playing a hybrid or not playing at all. I maintain that most folks who're less picky with respect to what classes they play are best-served in the long term by going with the Monk over the hybrid melees.

In truth the Shadow Knight can do most of what a Monk can (albeit usually takes longer to do it), and a few things a Monk cannot. Being a bit weaker overall doesn't translate into being weaker at everything, so it does offer a few advantages and conveniences. My character has done everything I've reasonably asked it to do, and I'm hard-pressed to think of anything I want to do, but can't, that a Monk could.

Danth