FTE in OoT Question

[Nightbear]

Are the FTE rules in OoT different than any other zone? I'm getting two sides of a story and just want to know the rules 100% before I can assist a guild member.

Is Snare or a Clicky agro item (Wizard staff) considered FTE?

Or are only damaging spells?

Discuss/link to previous issues.

[Swish]

If someone is camping the AC or dino or whatever... they're camping it and it shouldn't be about FTE.

Which mob is it?

[Nightbear]

Sorry - the cyclops island. just killing cyclops for gems or xp or w/e people do over there.

[Swish]

seafuries? That's a real shit show sometimes... always pull with a nuke (not a level 1 nuke) and people should leave it alone. I know I do, not worth the grief.

If you're snaring from over a hill at a distance where someone can't see you or the spell effects, they'll nuke and then think its theirs. Then everyone gets their lawyer books out and there's a lot of he said/she said as poor Moregan or whoever has his time wasted :p

[Nightbear]

Yea just wondering the rules to assist with a guildie's conflict, does someone who snares the mob have FTE over someone who melees it or nukes it? Or does snare not count there as FTE? (I've personally never been to Seafury island, nor plan on it)

[Swish]

Yea just wondering the rules to assist with a guildie's conflict, does someone who snares the mob have FTE over someone who melees it or nukes it? Or does snare not count there as FTE? (I've personally never been to Seafury island, nor plan on it)

It's not a Trakanon etc, having a GM turn up to see who got fte on a seafury is a waste of everyone's time... just nuke on sight, and if it was 100% when the nuke landed then I'd assume FTE and carry on. A seafury that's running (not walking) is a good sign that its been engaged if they're too lazy to check its health.

Technically your guildie has FTE, but you know that somewhere like seafury island that it'll be contested despite the 2nd person aggro'ing knowing it's snared. Nuking to engage keeps the peace, and if he's a wizard knowing for sure he has FTE a couple of nukes should guarantee anyone contesting it isn't getting the xp.

[webrunner5]

The cyclops island like Swish said has got to be the worse area in the game for pissing contests next to MM lol.

I agree with Swish, line of sight OK, AOE stuff probably not for 2 reasons, one in the bunch is probably someones else's mob, and that many will kill you. They are tough mobs to kill. One of the few places people can make plat with the gems and stuff that drop. :(

[Synthlol]

It's not a Trakanon etc, having a GM turn up to see who got fte on a seafury is a waste of everyone's time...

Agreed.

What if it's eight seperate seafuries though? And what if there is zero ambiguity over the fact that the snare landed first, and it was simply disregarded intentionally and repeatedly?

:rolleyes:

[Swish]

Agreed.

What if it's eight seperate seafuries though? And what if there is zero ambiguity over the fact that the snare landed first, and it was simply disregarded intentionally and repeatedly?

:rolleyes:

I've done a lot of seafuries, it's never that bad. If you nuke and the seafury runs at you, it's rarely disputed... because people aren't stupid enough to chase after it to try and outaggro/KS.

Don't pull with snare, it might be handy to open with but it's asking for trouble. When there's potential tunnelquest tokens up for grabs, don't expect anyone to be nice.

[Synthlol]

If you nuke and a seafury runs at you at a snails pace because it's been engaged with ensnare, that means you discontinue any attempts to kill it.

I was suprised too, but it certainly can get that bad, I'm finding out.

[Synthlol]

I've done a lot of seafuries, it's never that bad.

The OP failed to specify, so I can't blame you for assuming that this thread is in regards to a mob stolen by someone who is unaware or has otherwise failed to notice that a mob has already been engaged.

The situation this thread is addressing involved a player gaining initial aggro either via proximity or ensnare, and then having the mob stolen by another player who is fully aware that this has taken place, but does not consider either proxy aggro or any other means of generating hate without doing damage to be represent a valid claim to that mob.

This was not an isolated incident, but has been shown to be chronic behavior.

[Nightbear]

I wasn't talking about any issue in particular just trying to find what the general rule is.

[Rasah]

I get the feeling this story is about a Druid who has 1 or 2 snared and won't kill them until they have 4 to quad...

[Swish]

Consider what I put on page 1 as general pointers for minimizing any issues then.

If it is a druid with 3 seafuries looking for a 4th that isn't there, I'd be tempted to tell him to just kite the 3... and if he spends another few minutes still kiting, pull one away.

Considering their respawn time, you're just holding them up if you're going to take them on 2-3 laps of the island.

Ban druids doing this for stalling ;)

[kaev]

I get the feeling this story is about a Druid who has 1 or 2 snared and won't kill them until they have 4 to quad...

At least it's a change from the stories about greedy Bard swarm kiting and greedy Shaman rotting 69 mobs at once. We need more variety in here.

[bktroost]

The official ruling is to have damaged it. A wizard could lev and snag every one on the island and kite/med to kill them over a longer period of time.

If a mob is chasing a person at 100% and that mob is a roaming, non FTE raid mob and not a camped mob then it can be tagged with a nuke to acquire a new FTE. This prevents snare classes holding down mobs to conserve mana until they get the ideal aoe kite amount. GMs will not enforce a rule banning that tactic, but they support players that steal aggro with a nuke on a 100% mob.

If a mob is damaged but regens back up to 100% then the logic is that you do not have sufficient dps to be considered anything but stalling on that mob-- making that new mob eligible for a new person to take aggro.

[Vexenu]

FTE on Seafuries - Any attack (by a player or a pet) or offensive spell landed on a mob that causes the mob to agro. This includes snare, Wiz Flux Staff debuff and roots. It's a pretty simple concept: if you did something to the mob to make it agro you before someone else can do the same, you got FTE.

If a Druid has Seafuries snared and chasing him, he has rightful FTE on them, don't steal them. If a Wizard flux staff insta-pulls a Seafury you are running toward or about to land a spell on, he got rightful FTE. Don't complain or try to steal the mob from him. He landed his agro spell first. If an Epic Shaman is sitting in the middle of the island root rotting 6 Seafuries at a time, he got FTE. No matter how slowly he's killing them, you can't steal them. Don't bitch about it. If a Necro fears a couple of seafuries while killing another, he got FTE. They're his. Don't steal them.

Basically, if you can hit the seafury first, it's yours. That's all that matters from the rule lawyer perspective.

Now, there is a certain etiquette on seafury island that it's good to follow, mostly in regard to quadding. That being, don't run around forever with 2-3 seafuries waiting for a fourth to spawn. That's quite bad form. It's acceptable to run around a single seafury for a minute or two while waiting for another, and also acceptable to briefly run around with two while grouping them up and hoping for a third to pop near you, but for the love of God don't be that guy who runs around with two or three for like 5 minutes at a time. Just fucking suck it up and kill the double or triple.

[Vexenu]

The official ruling is to have damaged it. A wizard could lev and snag every one on the island and kite/med to kill them over a longer period of time.

If a mob is chasing a person at 100% and that mob is a roaming, non FTE raid mob and not a camped mob then it can be tagged with a nuke to acquire a new FTE. This prevents snare classes holding down mobs to conserve mana until they get the ideal aoe kite amount. GMs will not enforce a rule banning that tactic, but they support players that steal aggro with a nuke on a 100% mob.

If a mob is damaged but regens back up to 100% then the logic is that you do not have sufficient dps to be considered anything but stalling on that mob-- making that new mob eligible for a new person to take aggro.

I'm pretty sure you're confusing raid FTE rules for normal FTE on normal mobs. If you do anything to pull a normal mob and have the ability to kill it, then it's your mob to kill until you demonstrate that you cannot or will not kill it, at which point someone else should be able to snag it from you. However, this essentially never happens. I've killed a ton of seafuries and have never seen anyone pulling a bunch of seafuries they couldn't kill in any reasonable time frame. The idea of a Wizard staff-pulling the entire island and med-kiting them all is a particularly insane piece of fiction. I mean, you know the sort of players who roll Wizards, right? It's the class for people who want to spend 80% of their time alt-tabbed. No Wizard would ever have the patience for something like that, it would be a complete waste of time.

[Argh]

I'm pretty sure you're confusing raid FTE rules for normal FTE on normal mobs. If you do anything to pull a normal mob and have the ability to kill it, then it's your mob to kill until you demonstrate that you cannot or will not kill it, at which point someone else should be able to snag it from you.

A GM (I forget which) said in some thread which was specifically discussing FTE rules for seafuries that the mob must be damaged for it to be your mob, as Nemce outlined.

[applesauce25r624]

can we please get clearly defined FTE rules so we can stop the nerd arguments ?

[bktroost]

A GM (I forget which) said in some thread which was specifically discussing FTE rules for seafuries that the mob must be damaged for it to be your mob, as Nemce outlined.

This. It was a ruling that was made based on an incident with a very angry wizard. Made for good and informative reading. I don't care enough about being right to look it up though.

Take my word for it; look it up yourself; don't believe me. Up to you.

[Swish]

you can still lawyer that rule though sadly, pull with a level 4 or 5 nuke (just enough to get noticed... 100% down to 98 or something)

[Nightbear]

Nemce do you recall what forum this was discussed in? I'll have to do some digging.

[bktroost]

you can still lawyer that rule though sadly, pull with a level 4 or 5 nuke (just enough to get noticed... 100% down to 98 or something)

That's exactly how, or a mage uses Sigil which works a lot better now because it travels past the initial cast range if they walk out of it and moves much faster. However, (darn you Haynar) bolt spells get interrupted by trees... mages are defeated by trees these days.

[bktroost]

Nemce do you recall what forum this was discussed in? I'll have to do some digging.

I believe it was server chat. I remember it specifically being an angsty wizard and being about Seafuries. Happy digging!

[Synthlol]

The official ruling is to have damaged it.

A GM (I forget which) said in some thread which was specifically discussing FTE rules for seafuries that the mob must be damaged for it to be your mob, as Nemce outlined.

This is directly contrary to eunomia's and moregan's statements on the matter. There is nothing unique about seafuries other than the sense of entitlement that pervades the place.

Of course stalling is a forfeiture of your claim to the mob, but the concept of stalling is totally independent of whether or not FTE includes damage.

Fundamentally, what's the difference between FTE via proxy aggro, FTE with snare, FTE with tash, FTE with flux staff, or FTE with a level 4 nuke that drops the mob to 99.45%? Its ludicrous to claim that the baby nuke is a valid FTE and the others arent because of some idea related to stalling mobs, when there's no reason a nuke FTE can't transition into the same stalling behavior that some claim precludes snare from counting.

Sure, take a seafury from a druid that's been kiting 3 for 10 minutes. Fuck those guys. But that doesn't mean its OK to just take a mob from the druid right after he snares it just because he pulled with snare. And if the druid aggrod two within 10 seconds of each other, then finds another while he's stacking the first two on top of each other, don't fuck with him cause you're jealous he's better at making money than you are.

Wizards are the fastest at FTE. Play a wizard or get over it.

[Vexenu]

So an isolated incident (a butthurt Wizard kiting furies out of spite) resulted in a rule that makes no sense (you must damage a mob to have rightful claim to FTE) rather than just suspending the idiot's account?

So a group is XPing and their Warrior pulls a mob with an arrow to but misses, the Monk throws a javelin and misses, the Cleric roots it, the Enchanter tashes it and the Shaman slows it....they still don't have FTE on the mob because they haven't damaged it? Yeah, see how this rule makes no sense? Damage for FTE should only apply to contested raid targets.

If that really is a rule and not just some arbitrary one-time GM ruling then it needs to be looked at.

[bktroost]

The reasoning is that there is no instant cast damage item in the game without charges. There's no 1 point dps manastone, for obvious reasons. Someone cannot infinitely kite multiple mobs and kill them without expending mana. All dps items have very long cast times because of this. If you have 3 or 4 or whatever mobs in a kite it is called stalling and punishable. You can stall out on non- raid encounter mobs, it is a thing. So, to enforce that without having to do oodles of frapsing and such, they said "do some damage to it and keep it under 100%" If you can do that then you are actively damaging a mob. "dps is active" so to speak, and you are not stalling.


I don't remember how much of that is me inferencing and how much of that was said in the post I remember reading like a year ago when the gm ruled on it. In any case, it's their sandbox, we just play in it. After dealing with all the crap in the raid scene, nothing surprises me. Seafuries is not a hill i'm interested in dying on.

[bktroost]

So an isolated incident (a butthurt Wizard kiting furies out of spite) resulted in a rule that makes no sense (you must damage a mob to have rightful claim to FTE) rather than just suspending the idiot's account?

So a group is XPing and their Warrior pulls a mob with an arrow to but misses, the Monk throws a javelin and misses, the Cleric roots it, the Enchanter tashes it and the Shaman slows it....they still don't have FTE on the mob because they haven't damaged it? Yeah, see how this rule makes no sense? Damage for FTE should only apply to contested raid targets.

If that really is a rule and not just some arbitrary one-time GM ruling then it needs to be looked at.

That's how the US legal system works. Ask Unbrella about it, he's a lawyer.

[Llodd]

Back to reality. If you get agro on the mob most ppl will consider it yours regardless of damage done. (who would ever try and steal a non damamged rooted mob??)

Yeah dont answer that cuz the only answer is if someone/people are being a dick on dick island.

[-Catherin-]

I've always said if you made phara dar spawn on seafury island and then nuked the entire island you could eliminate a good deal of the trash on this server all at once :p

[Visual]

I've always said fbss is life

[bktroost]

I've always said if you made phara dar spawn on seafury island and then nuked the entire island you could eliminate a good deal of the trash on this server all at once :p

I lol'd

[Cecily]

Disregard anyone that says you have to damage a mob to FTE it. They are wrong. It's very easy to visually determine whether or not a mob has been engaged by the seafury's run animation or lack therefore if it comes after you with a snare you didn't cast. Spend more time hunting on the island and a little less time lawyer questing. You'll figure this out quickly.

[Nightbear]

So seems like the consensus is no one knows anything haha

[Swish]

So seems like the consensus is no one knows anything haha

I think the consensus is you're asking for an answer on something so specific where an answer so specific isn't required. Should the devs code in an automatic 30 minute suspension for someone who lands a spell after the FTE? How about another rule/precedent is set that'll cause more petitions and make the community a bit less friendly?

Nuke it, people will acknowledge it's yours... or snare it if you want more of a possibility that someone might contest that claim even if they're wrong. What if someone else snares at the same time and either...

A) Chooses not to notice that "Your spell did not take hold"
or
B) Genuinely thinks they tagged it first and didn't notice the fail message.

What if you're the person in B?


Maybe see what happens when you petition about an FTE call on a mob and feedback here, few of us can answer that one... on seafury island it's better to be safe than sorry and lead with some damage when you're FTE'ing.

Out of interest, what would you have done to someone who gets it wrong when you FTE a seafury and they think its theirs?

Play the game, enjoy the game...tag it second? Send the first guy a tell and apologize and say you're backing away, that's more the community spirit we should want and something we should encourage rather than an endless quest to cover every instance of every camp area in Norrath with a set of specific rules.

[Man0warr]

Don't be a dick, that simple mandate will see you far in P99. Until you get to the raid scene at least.

[Nightbear]

Don't be a dick, that simple mandate will see you far in P99. Until you get to the raid scene at least.

Truth :)