Classic vs Non Classic

[Syft-X]

Currently the term Classic is being used as a catch 22 to push an agenda on the forums that favors certain classes and unbalances others.

For Example:

A classic lvl of resists has been instituted that is both impractical and unbalancing to gameplay in PvP. The threshold for resists has been set so low that the average lvl 60 character is now immune to every dmg spell without an extreme modifier(like Lure or Lifetap)

This is highly impractical when one considers the game knowledge available now and average lvl of gear attained by players, and this problem will become even worse during velious.

The disparity between melee's and casters grows the lower you set resist thresholds for immunity. Especially when we ignore the fact that dmg caps have not been set on melee's(backstabs can land for 1000 a piece and 2000 for 2) and that melee's here hit nearly twice as hard as they did during even velious era in kunark. This has a huge impact in both PVE and PVP as Rogues can out burst a wizard in DPS something which did not happen on live during classic. Over a short time span a wizard always parsed the highest dps in raid. This was balanced in the fact that a wizards dps was finite bound by a mana pool and rogues was infinite.

The problem is all melees dealing far to much dmg and casters being nerfed by rigid adherence to what is deemed classic in a unclassic world. Compounded further by the fact that here AC does not factor into misses, but hit or miss rolls solely off a players weapon skill. Which is essentially a one sided attack, which would be like spells rolling off alteration without factoring the targets resists.

I do not advocate rigidly adhering to all things classic, but rather sticking to the "FEEL" of classic pvp. If we are going to blindly institute all things classic then we must institute mechanics like Charm and Fear landing on players. See Below...



------------------------------
July 24, 2002
------------------------------

*** New Interface Available ***

The new EverQuest user interface is now available for use on Live
servers. Many of you will find that it runs faster than the old
interface. It is extremely customizable, and offers all sorts of
features including resizable windows, fading windows, a pet control
window, and flexibility through the XML files. We decided to offer it
for optional use as a sort of Beta II for folks on the Live servers
that haven't had the chance to try it out on the Test server.

To activate the new interface:

* Log into the game.
* Type /newui into the chat bar and hit enter.
* Log out and exit to your desktop and then log back in.

or

* Before you log in:
* Open the EQclient.ini file in your EverQuest folder with a text
editor (notepad works fine)
* Find the [Defaults] section of the file
* Add a line that reads: NewUI=TRUE
* Log in

We want to thank all the folks that have helped us test the interface
and have offered a wide variety of useful ideas.

Enjoy the interface!

*** Bazaar Now Available ***

Those of you that own Shadows of Luclin now have access to the /bazaar
and /trader functions. These functions only work in the Bazaar. You can
find the Bazaar on Luclin, adjacent to the Nexus and Shadowhaven.

/bazaar opens up the Bazaar Search Window, which allows you to easily
locate specific items for sale by Traders in the Bazaar. /trader opens
up the Bazaar Vendor window, which allows you to make items available
for sale to others in the Bazaar.

You can only use the Bazaar if you have the new interface turned on.
See the message above for details.

Again we'd like to thank the folks that helped us test this feature.
And we'd like to apologize for the delay in delivery of the Bazaar.

We think that you'll find the finished product to be a good one.

** ViewPort **

One of the new commands available only with the new interface is
/viewport. You can use this command to change the size of the gameplay
area.

/viewport [distance from left, distance from top, width, height]

All of the distances and numbers for the viewport command are in the
same measure as your screen resolution numbers.

For Example: Let's say you are running in 800 x 600 video mode and you
want to create view the game only in the top half of your screen (not
that you would). You would type:

/viewport 0 0 800 300

The top left of your screen is 0 and 0. 800 is the width of your
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/viewport reset - will reset the viewport to the default setting.


** New Vah Shir Models **

We have developed new models for the Vah Shir for use with the old
world. You may now choose to turn off the Luclin version of the Vah
Shir models and use these new models if you wish. These new Vah Shir
models require less memory and you may want to use them in place of the
Luclin models to improve system performance.

** Spells **

- Fixed a bug with the bard songs Warsong and Battlecry of the Vah Shir
that caused them to slow you down when used without other haste
components. - Fixed a bug with bolt spells that caused double hits due
to elevation. Sorry Mages.
- Removed the "Ahhh... I feel much better now!" message from certain
spells when the caster is over level 35.
-Removed the reduction in damage to Damage over Time spells when used
on NPCs that are moving.
- Mind Wrack will now consider the z-axis when calculating the maximum
distance group members can receive the beneficial affects of the spell.
- Song of Sustenance should prevent unnecessary hungry and thirsty
messages.
- Bind Affinity can no longer be cast on any ungrouped player in
arenas.
- The caster of Voice Graft will once again see what is being said.
- Spells that transfer hit points over time from the caster to a target
will no longer take effect on the target (the hit point gainer) if the
caster (the hit point giver) isn't also affected by the spell.
- Added a spell effect message to Magician epic.
- Beastlords now get Endure Disease at level 24 and Resist Disease at
51

** Pets **

- Pet Resistance Changes: Pets will now use their master's level and
resistances when saving against spells cast by NPCs (against PCs pets
will use their own resistances and level as they always have) - unless
the pet has special resistances, in which case it will use that
resistance.
- Altered pet summoning spells so that they always summon the most
powerful pet possible, instead of pets within a 5 level range.
- /pet report health now uses the same user defined color as spell
text.
- /pet report health will now display a list of the effects on the pet.
- Mage fire pets should now cast their damage shields more often.
- Wizard, Druid and Cleric pets and familiars can now be buffed by
characters other than their owner.

** PvP **

- Fixed a bug on Tallon and Vallon Zek that made player characters in
non-human illusions immune to ranged attacks.
- It is no longer possible for PC's to fear other PC's at all on any
server. The same was also done for charm.
- Pets can no longer be affected by charm spells. This should fix the
issue that caused charm spells to make pets disappear.
- NPCs who are pets of players and call for help from other NPCs will
have their cries fall on deaf ears.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2002-2.html

[Smedy]

holy wall of text batman, whats the tldr?

[Syft-X]

holy wall of text batman, whats the tldr?

Basically you cant set resists to classic lvls on a progression server 15 years after live. The average gear is way beyond what it was on live and if this lvl of gear was attained verant would have changed things.

Melee dmg still set to high and not capped when caster dmg has been nerfed due to low resists thresholds set.

If we blindly institute it's Classic then we have to add Fear and Charm on players, and nobody really wants that.

[Crazycloud]

I posted about fear/charm working in pvp on our timeline long ago but lets be real...

This server is far from classic and they just use the word "Classic" to change what they want to change.

[Wrench]

holy wall of text batman, whats the tldr?

sounds like you need something to help you concentrate and pay attention to detail

some sort of study drug or something

[Syft-X]

I posted about fear/charm working in pvp on our timeline long ago but lets be real...

This server is far from classic and they just use the word "Classic" to change what they want to change.

I agree and it has worked!

Not classic is being used by MANY people to lawyer-doctor resists at an impractical level, and currently resists are set to CLASSIC levels in a world where the average gearset is 2-3x what it was during this era.

Basically melee's are fine being nigh invulnerable to all spells due to them being classic.
But mention Fear or charm and suddenly were being silly.

[Nirgon]

Look at the timeline for fear and charm in pvp again

Look at Kunark release date, our current time line and Velious release date

Aoe fear is another matter but much like bard stacking would likely be a major pain to code

[Syft-X]

Look at the timeline for fear and charm in pvp again

Look at Kunark release date, our current time line and Velious release date

Aoe fear is another matter but much like bard stacking would likely be a major pain to code


Kunark Release date:
April 24, 2000

Velious Release date:
December 5, 2000

Charm/Fear Nerf Date
July 2002

I'm not advocating the addition of Fear or charm in PvP. I'm advocating a return to common sense, where we look at the server realistically based on what it is NOW and not use "It's Classic" to lawyer doctor resists to an impractical level that didn't reflect how spells were used in regards to gear ratio on live.

If you are going to use the "It's Classic" argument to add all sorts of nonsensical mechanics that do not fit the current environment, than you are not afforded the luxury of picking and choosing what you wish from classic and what you don't.

[Nirgon]

You think players could be charmed and feared all through Kunark? 8)

Final answer?

AoE fear btw

------------------------------
March 29, 2000
------------------------------

This morning's update consisted primarily of server-side changes to
improve performance of the game engine in general. No items, spawns,
spells (with the exceptions below), etc., were changed as a result of
this patch.

Area Effect "Fear" spells will no longer work in PvP. This affects a
bard song, as well as the Cleric "Wave of Fear" spell.

[Colgate]

"lawyer-doctoring" resists is ruining the server

you heard it here first, folks

[Nirgon]

Missing from patch notes on the two most common sites we use here for verifying but charm and fear were removed very early

Here's a fellow in 2000 asking what he can do vs necros without being able to use charm/fear anymore:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/eqenchanters/conversations/messages/2304


Another long read about a guy that pvped before and after charm/fear was changed to not work on players (post is from 2001):
http://thefuzzsz.tripod.com/pklife.htm



Source (http://hjj.free.fr/aargh/patches.htm):

November 15th, 2:00pm


*PvP and PvP-Teams*

Any spell that results in a "Fear" or "Charm" effect may no longer be cast on other players. Please note that this change will only be active on Rallos Zek (PvP), Tallon Zek, and Vallon Zek (PvP-Teams).


Malosini being broken is gone and BK moved to necro pullin' this stuff... no surprises here

PS: most recent source has some good stuff in it, worth a read if there's anything of interest report it

[Syft-X]

You think players could be charmed and feared all through Kunark? 8)

Final answer?

AoE fear btw

Yes on many PvP servers you could, as the patch notes indicate. If you are not willing to accept direct patch notes as evidence of such I do not know what to tell you.

The are many mechanics currently in place that are as ridiculous as a bards aoe fear song being used in pvp. Remember Fear is totally usable in Everquests successor world of warcraft so it is not as far fetched as your trying to make it out to be.

Setting resists below the average gear ratio is ridiculous, using the argument because "It's Classic" is ridiculous. But if you wish to rigidly adhere to classic levels regardless of how ridiculous it is in the current environment, than you must accept all ridiculous classic mechanics, and not pick and choose the ones that benefit your class or guild the most.

[Nirgon]

Yes on many PvP servers you could, as the patch notes indicate. If you are not willing to accept direct patch notes as evidence of such I do not know what to tell you.


You've been wrong about this as of: November 15th, 2:00pm

It's in the patch notes, zam doesn't have all of them (like the plane of hate zone out one).

PS: I'm very aware the server timeline is not entirely classic.. something about the server being free, people having stressful development jobs and contributing as much time as they can for free.... answer is somewhere in there..

[Colgate]

syft currently trying to lawyer-doctor resists into a non-classic state

syft is killing the server

please ban

[Syft-X]

You've been wrong about this as of: November 15th, 2:00pm

It's in the patch notes, zam doesn't have all of them (like the plane of hate zone out one).

PS: I'm very aware the server timeline is not entirely classic.. something about the server being free, people having stressful development jobs and contributing as much time as they can for free.... answer is somewhere in there..

I'm grateful for all the patches the developers are able to institute, in their extremely limited time.

That's why it's so troublesome to the server when players try to alter the coding to further their own agendas, asking for ridiculous changes that unfairly sway pvp and waste the developers time.

I don't see how I can be wrong about patch notes clearly stated on Zams, not all servers had the same rules and there would be no need to state Fear and Charm have been removed from pvp if they were removed earlier from every pvp server.

I don't think it's unrealistic to say we should arrive at a level of balance that adheres to the Classic Ideals of PvP, without using the "It's Classic" argument to waste the staffs time in a effort to lawyer-doctor the code.

syft currently trying to lawyer-doctor resists into a non-classic state

syft is killing the server

please ban

Please refrain from RnF trolling in bug reports, the proper venue for this is Rants and flames and trolling acts as hindrance to the developers. They are already limited enough in their time to code this server they should not be forced to sift(pardon the pun) through immature rants on these forums to collect valuable data.

My pvp experience and knowledge of live mechanics is extensive and I don't think anyone's input should be edited based on personal grievances.

[Nirgon]

I just posted the patch note where they removed it

Did you read it?

[Qtip]

One thing I have to agree with is resists. Classic? Yes. But is the server classic? No. Recharging clickys and trak teeth cant be used. Not classic.

If kunark wasnt around for 4 years this wouldnt be a issue, but with alot of people in bis(close to) it just makes pvp dumb.

Would be nice to see casters doing full damage or just a bump in resists period.

[Colgate]

i'm a big fan of our current style of "classic unless it ruins the game like recharging and trak teeth"

[Syft-X]

I just posted the patch note where they removed it

Did you read it?

That was only in regards to AOE fear, as you can clearly see Fear and Charm were not removed from pvp until 2002 which is way after Velious era.

It was a clever attempt to lawyer doctor but I never made reference to aoe Fear, you did. I merely showed patch notes regarding Fear and Charm.

And as i have stated I don't believe they should be instituted, I'm merely showing how sticking rigidly to "It's Classic" is not realistic considering the servers current state, and if you are going to argue for unrealistic changes that disrupt server pvp balance you cannot pick and choose what YOU personally want. That's not good for the server that's bias.

[Sektor]

Nirgon and Colgate posting their own agenda's this shit aint cool and i seriously hope these devs do something about it.

[Syft-X]

i'm a big fan of our current style of "classic unless it ruins the game like recharging and trak teeth"

I'm not a big fan of how you pick and choose what should be made classic and what shouldn't in regards to whats best for your class and guild.

I prefer dynamic skill based pvp like verant intended to make, as when they instituted the 66% dmg reduction to nukes and dots because they felt casters were doing far to much dmg in pvp.

However that patch would have never been put into place had the dmg lvls for melees been set as they currently are and rogue duelist uncapped max dmg attack be hitting for Lifeburn dmg. I understand that with monk triple attack a few months away you make no mention of how unclassic melee dmg is tuned atm.

I however am well known for calling for nerfs on my own class when it disrupts pvp balance, sadly not everyone adheres to that level of integrity for the good of the server.

[Nirgon]

Here it is again:


http://hjj.free.fr/aargh/patches.htm

November 15th, 2:00pm


*PvP and PvP-Teams*

Any spell that results in a "Fear" or "Charm" effect may no longer be cast on other players. Please note that this change will only be active on Rallos Zek (PvP), Tallon Zek, and Vallon Zek (PvP-Teams).


Are you two retarded? If you are, sorry for the RL attacks.

[Syft-X]

Here it is again:


http://hjj.free.fr/aargh/patches.htm


Are you two retarded? If you are, sorry for the RL attacks.

There is no year given on those patch notes only months. I know Rallos zek had changed fear and charm earlier than 2002 but we aren't going by solely Rallos Zek classic rules if we were item loot should be added.

Everquest wouldn't have put this...

- It is no longer possible for PC's to fear other PC's at all on any
server. The same was also done for charm.

In patch notes dating 2002 if fear and charm had been removed from all pvp servers.

[Nirgon]

Its right in there with meditate 35+ not needing to look at the book which a very, very early change.

Glad I never have to worry about this never getting changed. I do hope you enjoy the time you will spend insisting after I proved this wrong.

[Syft-X]

Its right in there with meditate 35+ not needing to look at the book which a very, very early change.

Glad I never have to worry about this never getting changed. I do hope you enjoy the time you will spend insisting after I proved this wrong.

I think I've stated I'm not trying to get this changed but merely how rigidly sticking to "It's Classic" is bad for server pvp.

Sorry but updated patch notes from a french guild fan website are a very weak argument vs zams patch notes especially when they directly contradict each other, I think developers here would be more inclined to trust Zams.

And I know Haynar is way too intelligent to fall for this transparent ruse you are trying to sell.

[Qtip]

i'm a big fan of our current style of "classic unless it ruins the game like recharging and trak teeth"

Great! Didnt know you were the only person to play this server. When your balls finally drop you can join the conversation again with the adults.

But why is trak teeth/recharging not in, but we have a classic resist system? Trying to push the code in favor of yourself is stupid and only hurts the server.

Also monk triple attack shouldnt come in til the end of velious.

[Syft-X]

Great! Didnt know you were the only person to play this server. When your balls finally drop you can join the conversation again with the adults.

But why is trak teeth/recharging not in, but we have a classic resist system? Trying to push the code in favor of yourself is stupid and only hurts the server.

Also monk triple attack shouldnt come in til the end of velious.

I don't want to degrade bug reports into a torrent of personal insults. But I will say that there are a few extremely vocal people on Bug Reports that don't seem to have pvp or adherence to classic balance as their intent.

While they feign ignorance to extremely well known Classic mechanics

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173712&page=3

They come across as the absolute authority in regards to others. All in the attempt to skew class balance in favor of their purposed and often ridiculous changes, while always masking their intentions behind a facade of cordial interest in server health.

However should you disagree with these individuals their true trollish nature becomes abundantly apparent and they quickly resort to immature trolling and mud slinging personal insults.

I think this farce has gone on long enough and is detrimental to pvp on this server, and quite likable to petition questing. Instead of other players, and bans, the code is being used to further their agenda.

[Rednaros]

As having mained a necro at the high end level range since my dad passed him on to me in early kunark on rallos zek i can confirm pvp charm/fear is classic

[Syft-X]

As having mained a necro at the high end level range since my dad passed him on to me in early kunark on rallos zek i can confirm pvp charm/fear is classic

I agree Fear and charm was classic in pvp. When exactly it was changed across all servers I do not remember. I also don't agree it should be implemented here.

Only that we cannot adhere to everything Classic and must accept this is no longer a valid argument to skew class balance.

[Colgate]

yeah man i'm really trying to skew class balance in favor of my monk by discussing spells like shock of lightning

[Syft-X]

yeah man i'm really trying to skew class balance in favor of my monk by discussing spells like shock of lightning

No you are doing that in favor of your guild, I'm sure it would be nice to have fully spell immune clerics who resisted every interrupt that should have jammed their heals.

Surely not classic but really nice.

[Colgate]

not once did i say anything remotely close to that

all i said was that posting a bug report with zero evidence or research is stupid

[Syft-X]

not once did i say anything remotely close to that

all i said was that posting a bug report with zero evidence or research is stupid

It's not something that needs to be researched it was literally known by all who pvp'd during that era, if it's something you need to prove than all you did was prove to everyone who did pvp then, that you didn't.

Might as well prove that spells run off mana or player's pressing space bar jump.

[worch]

Currently the term Classic is being used as a catch 22 to push an agenda on the forums that favors certain classes and unbalances others.

For Example:

A classic lvl of resists has been instituted that is both impractical and unbalancing to gameplay in PvP.

"Classic" is a guiding tenet of p99. The staff's approach to developing the server is a more principled one based on this tenet, not a pragmatic, class-balancing approach such as tweaking resists for balance. They only deviate from this to address issues considered game breaking, like with certain clickies.

Classes were never balanced in early everquest (pvp nor pve). Trying to balance them is misdirected.

I completely understand the desire to individually balance classes for competitive 1v1 pvp, but that doesn't align with p99's goals. That's a different game / eqemu server.

[Syft-X]

"Classic" is a guiding tenet of p99. The staff's approach to developing the server is a more principled one based on this tenet, not a pragmatic, class-balancing approach such as tweaking resists for balance. They only deviate from this to address issues considered game breaking, like with certain clickies.

Classes were never balanced in early everquest (pvp nor pve). Trying to balance them is misdirected.

I completely understand the desire to individually balance classes for competitive 1v1 pvp, but that doesn't align with p99's goals. That's a different game / eqemu server.

No ones asking for a custom system of complete balance in pvp, which is impossible to attain. just a game that actually resembles live EQ in this era. If the gear attained is 3x what was in live then the game needs to be compensated for this.

No one on live was taking Duelist BS for 1200-1700 that's a one shot for a lot of classes, while we have resist levels set to kunark when kunark was only out for 7 months. The games mechanics are off we instituted the 66% dmg reduction on spells and nukes but never put dmg caps on melees, never put AC factoring misses. The level of balance between caster dps and melee dps is huge and will get much worse in velious.

On live no one could touch a wizards burst here rogues are the highest burst dps, this is still everquest and the pvp should run like classic everquest does. You cannot say, well resists were set this way on live, when only 2% of the server back then had resists that high and now 98% of the server does, but keep caster nerfs in place while melee dmg is set to insane, this is not classic EQ this is custom rules people used the classic argument to distort and attain.

[FaithlessKR]

So you're linking patch notes on when they took fear/charm working in duels on blue servers in an effort to make fear/charm work on players here??? GTFO lololol

[FaithlessKR]

On live no one could touch a wizards burst here rogues are the highest burst dps, this is still everquest and the pvp should run like classic everquest does. You cannot say, well resists were set this way on live, when only 2% of the server back then had resists that high and now 98% of the server does, but keep caster nerfs in place while melee dmg is set to insane, this is not classic EQ this is custom rules people used the classic argument to distort and attain.

On live they didn't even have a year of kunark before velious dropped. It was very easy for wizards to find targets with very subpar gear to obliterate with Sunstrike. Here we've had 3 years of gear saturation during the kunark era to actually stack resists to where draughts and sunstrike wont hit for full like they would on live against people who maybe had 60 fire and cold.

[FaithlessKR]

There is no year given on those patch notes only months. I know Rallos zek had changed fear and charm earlier than 2002 but we aren't going by solely Rallos Zek classic rules if we were item loot should be added.

Everquest wouldn't have put this...

- It is no longer possible for PC's to fear other PC's at all on any
server. The same was also done for charm.

In patch notes dating 2002 if fear and charm had been removed from all pvp servers.

December 10th, 4:00pm
---------------------

The EverQuest servers will be coming down at 7:00am pacific, on Tuesday the 14th, for an update. The approximate downtime is 4 hours.

If we search for december the 14th and cross-reference it by tuesday, then these were patch notes from 1999.

Please give it a rest.

1999 calender (http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1999)

You can check the next 3 years if you want, but I've already done it and the only dec 14th on a tuesday in that time span was in 1999.

[Syft-X]

On live they didn't even have a year of kunark before velious dropped. It was very easy for wizards to find targets with very subpar gear to obliterate with Sunstrike. Here we've had 3 years of gear saturation during the kunark era to actually stack resists to where draughts and sunstrike wont hit for full like they would on live against people who maybe had 60 fire and cold.

So what your saying is 1200-1700 backstabs are fine when that was never happening on live in kunark but sunstrikes aren't?

What class do you play again oh a rogue that's right!

Listen buddy if you want nothing but lures landing likes its luclin era thats fine but you can't keep your insane custom dmg that never matched live thats currently happening on melees.

[Widan]

The problem is armor class, not resists. AC has never worked correctly on either server.

[FaithlessKR]

So what your saying is 1200-1700 backstabs are fine when that was never happening on live in kunark but sunstrikes aren't?

What class do you play again oh a rogue that's right!

Listen buddy if you want nothing but lures landing likes its luclin era thats fine but you can't keep your insane custom dmg that never matched live thats currently happening on melees.

The chances of me doing that much damage on a backstab are about 1 in 15. Requires duelist and a very high roll on damage and not missing one or both. Wizard have just as high (if not higher) of a chance to do 1k damage with a sunstrike and they don't have to be put on a 30 minute cooldown to try it.

Granted my memory isn't perfect, but I can say for certain that in my time in live during the end of kunark and start of velious...that I saw several rogues backstabbing for mid to high 400's at the gfay spires.

While that's not the 520 that we're capable of, our 520's are also with capped strength and the rogues I watched did not have any buffs. People from Tallon Zek will remember rogues like Amuk, Quiknuss, Tzuten etc who were all elves that spent a lot of time pvping at wizard spires. People from those eras will also remember that every big name shaman on that server would never have poison dots memmed because they didn't land (something else bk is crying for is the ability for shaman to pvp). They all relied on insidious decay and pox/plague to do damage.

So whether or not rogues hit as hard there I can't really say, if you can provide proof that we didn't I could give 2 shits about my class being nerfed, I am confident enough in my ability to contribute even if they take 70 damage off my max backstabs. And I sure as hell wont come crying to the forums about it, at worst I'll make another character and level it up if people feel I'd be of more use on a different class.

The problem is armor class, not resists. AC has never worked correctly on either server.

This is probably more accurate than anything BK has attempted to say. I feel like I backstab warriors harder than wizards a lot of the time.

[Syft-X]

The chances of me doing that much damage on a backstab are about 1 in 15. Requires duelist and a very high roll on damage and not missing one or both. Wizard have just as high (if not higher) of a chance to do 1k damage with a sunstrike and they don't have to be put on a 30 minute cooldown to try it.

Granted my memory isn't perfect, but I can say for certain that in my time in live during the end of kunark and start of velious...that I saw several rogues backstabbing for mid to high 400's at the gfay spires.

While that's not the 520 that we're capable of, our 520's are also with capped strength and the rogues I watched did not have any buffs. People from Tallon Zek will remember rogues like Amuk, Quiknuss, Tzuten etc who were all elves that spent a lot of time pvping at wizard spires. People from those eras will also remember that every big name shaman on that server would never have poison dots memmed because they didn't land (something else bk is crying for is the ability for shaman to pvp). They all relied on insidious decay and pox/plague to do damage.

So whether or not rogues hit as hard there I can't really say, if you can provide proof that we didn't I could give 2 shits about my class being nerfed, I am confident enough in my ability to contribute even if they take 70 damage off my max backstabs. And I sure as hell wont come crying to the forums about it, at worst I'll make another character and level it up if people feel I'd be of more use on a different class.



This is probably more accurate than anything BK has attempted to say. I feel like I backstab warriors harder than wizards a lot of the time.

Can you provide proof that everyone in kunark fully resisted everyones spells besides lures and liftetaps?

No you can't but you'll happily say that was the case and use it as basis for balancing and then state 1200-1700 backstabs are normal for this era. Sullon Zek was the only server with ranked boards and you'd be lucky to find one rogue listed in the top 100, here almost every rogue is ranked in top 100 so yea i'd say thats a pretty solid case for how far balance is off.

[FaithlessKR]

Can you provide proof that everyone in kunark fully resisted everyones spells besides lures and liftetaps?

No you can't but you'll happily say that was the case and use it as basis for balancing and then state 1200-1700 backstabs are normal for this era. Sullon Zek was the only server with ranked boards and you'd be lucky to find one rogue listed in the top 100, here almost every rogue is ranked in top 100 so yea i'd say thats a pretty solid case for how far balance is off.

When nearly everyone on the boards agrees with the fact that having 120 to all resists made you immune on live during kunark/velious, then I would generally assume that's a pretty good idea of what it was like. I will give you a list of the items my shaman had during velious, and I can tell you right now nothing ever landed on me outside of lures.

Ear - Earring of Essence
Ear - Blue Diamond Electrum Earring
Finger - Velium Diamond Ring
Finger - Velium Diamond Ring
Face - Golden Diamond Mask
Head - Scaled Hierophant Helm
Neck - Black Sapphire Velium Necklace
Chest - Scaled Hierophant Breastplate
Arms - Scaled Hierophant Vambraces
Back - Cloak of the Ice Bear
Waist - Flayed Turmoilskin Belt
Shoulders - Obulus Death Shroud
Wrist - Velium Blue Diamond Bracelet
Wrist - Velium Blue Diamond Bracelet
Legs - Scaled Hierophant Greaves
Hands - Scaled Hierophant Gauntlets
Feet - Black Fur Boots
Primary - Blight, Hammer of the Scourge
Range - Stone of Morid

Here were my base resists before buffs:

MR - 100
FR - 124
CR - 138
PR - 84
DR - 94

Only resists I would wear on a normal occasion were mr and shadoo. Occasionally I would buff fire or other resists if I came across something like a druid or mage. Nothing landed on me with those stats outside of lure based spells with any frequency.

[Syft-X]

When nearly everyone on the boards agrees with the fact that having 120 to all resists made you immune on live during kunark/velious, then I would generally assume that's a pretty good idea of what it was like. I will give you a list of the items my shaman had during velious, and I can tell you right now nothing ever landed on me outside of lures.



Here were my base resists before buffs:



Only resists I would wear on a normal occasion were mr and shadoo. Occasionally I would buff fire or other resists if I came across something like a druid or mage. Nothing landed on me with those stats outside of lure based spells with any frequency.

I'm glad you so accurately recall each piece of gear you owned and the exact resists you needed when to be spell immune, but when it comes to fighting melee's you can't seem remember how hard they hit and how much backstabs landed for.

Played a shaman on live huh but rolled a rogue here hmmm I wonder why, maybe it was because on live a dmg shield would kill a rogue vs any opponent smart enough not to show his back and my wizards skins were enough to eat full duelist BS before he chewed into my life.

I get it though when it comes to melee dmg you need proof and your memory gets all hazy but when it comes to you being spell immune you suddenly have a photographic memory...seems legit.

You know a lot of wizard nukes have -resist modifiers so with that fire you woulda been rocked by sunstrike in velious...just saying it doesn't sound like you actually pvp'd a lot in classic. Because with staff of t-flux and mod on sunstrike you actually had 108 fire.

Can you say "Salt's body is consumed with the fires of the sun"

Cool story though.

[Luniz]

I was bard charming people in ec tunnel /duels on terrew marr during Kunark. But I think OP is trying to make this WoWesque and have custom balance With new and custom classes to appeal to new gamers

[Syft-X]

I was bard charming people in ec tunnel /duels on terrew marr during Kunark. But I think OP is trying to make this WoWesque and have custom balance With new and custom classes to appeal to new gamers

if you want people to take you seriously you need to stop trolling every forum working desperately on your 65th forum ban

[Nirgon]

AC was good but didn't make you barely take any damage as you might think... prof (Velious eta):

Here's a paladin in Velious plate getting jacked up by a backstab... 102 slashes too

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/Baeandar04.jpg

Warrior getting slashed for 193

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/wetall_1on1.jpg

Full indo warrior taking some pretty hard hits

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/TB/Mico03.jpg

Druid with respectable AC getting plowed hardcore by inner flame monk

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/TB/Amrix01.jpg

Cleric with kael plate and good ac taking a pounding

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/Mystereo02.jpg

SK getting hit real hard by a rogue again
http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/SOF/Wetall01.jpg

Druid with lodi shield / velious leather getting plowed:
http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/DaxxN01.JPG


Primal rogue piercing for 151 (lol get ready for this shit kids):
http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/Ezik01.jpg

[Syft-X]

AC was good but didn't make you barely take any damage as you might think... prof (Velious eta):

Here's a paladin in Velious plate getting jacked up by a backstab... 102 slashes too

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/Baeandar04.jpg

Warrior getting slashed for 193

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/wetall_1on1.jpg

Full indo warrior taking some pretty hard hits

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/TB/Mico03.jpg

Druid with respectable AC getting plowed hardcore by inner flame monk

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/TB/Amrix01.jpg

Cleric with kael plate and good ac taking a pounding

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/Mystereo02.jpg

SK getting hit real hard by a rogue again
http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/SOF/Wetall01.jpg

Druid with lodi shield / velious leather getting plowed:
http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/DaxxN01.JPG


Primal rogue piercing for 151 (lol get ready for this shit kids):
http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/Ezik01.jpg

Thanks bro you just literally proved that we have dmg set 2x higher in kunark than it was in velious.

[Pikrib]

AC was good but didn't make you barely take any damage as you might think... prof (Velious eta):

Here's a paladin in Velious plate getting jacked up by a backstab... 102 slashes too

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/Baeandar04.jpg

Warrior getting slashed for 193

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/wetall_1on1.jpg

Full indo warrior taking some pretty hard hits

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/TB/Mico03.jpg

Druid with respectable AC getting plowed hardcore by inner flame monk

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/TB/Amrix01.jpg

Cleric with kael plate and good ac taking a pounding

http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/Mystereo02.jpg

SK getting hit real hard by a rogue again
http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/SOF/Wetall01.jpg

Druid with lodi shield / velious leather getting plowed:
http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/DaxxN01.JPG


Primal rogue piercing for 151 (lol get ready for this shit kids):
http://facultas.50megs.com/cgi-bin/i/AD/Ezik01.jpg

Some of those SS's are showing a duelist rog in velious and we don't know what weapons he is using either.

Duelist

1: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 100%
2: Increase All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 400%

I don't see any 1+k Duelist backstabbs in those SS's like on this server. The druids in one of those pics might have been sitting down btw (which still needs to be fixed or is it pending patch?).

Anyway..

For arguements sake lets say he was sitting and duelist hit for 944 against the druid. Here if sit damage was fixed it would have been over 1k.

Shit aint broken but it needs to be tweaked imho.

[Colgate]

You backstab Wetall for 336 points of damage.
You backstab Wetall for 714 points of damage.

plate class taking over 1k from a duelist backstab seems in line with what we see on this server

the last time i saw a 1000+ hit from a single backstab swing on red99 was back when sitting damage code was bugged and it did a theoretical max hit every time

[Luniz]

if you want people to take you seriously you need to stop trolling every forum working desperately on your 65th forum ban

what? what i posted was real

i bard charmed on blue server during kunark... which supports your OP for blue servers which is what the patch note is referring to

[Syft-X]

You backstab Wetall for 336 points of damage.
You backstab Wetall for 714 points of damage.

plate class taking over 1k from a duelist backstab seems in line with what we see on this server

the last time i saw a 1000+ hit from a single backstab swing on red99 was back when sitting damage code was bugged and it did a theoretical max hit every time

LMFAO got hit for 1600 BS not to long ago with 850 ac on BK, everyday I see backstabs that range from 1200-1700 on high ac targets.

i like the two handed weep guy hitting for 66 then 33 then 193 if it were here it woulda been 158, 178, 193.

In line with here GTFO

[FaithlessKR]

I'm glad you so accurately recall each piece of gear you owned and the exact resists you needed when to be spell immune, but when it comes to fighting melee's you can't seem remember how hard they hit and how much backstabs landed for.

Played a shaman on live huh but rolled a rogue here hmmm I wonder why, maybe it was because on live a dmg shield would kill a rogue vs any opponent smart enough not to show his back and my wizards skins were enough to eat full duelist BS before he chewed into my life.

I get it though when it comes to melee dmg you need proof and your memory gets all hazy but when it comes to you being spell immune you suddenly have a photographic memory...seems legit.

You know a lot of wizard nukes have -resist modifiers so with that fire you woulda been rocked by sunstrike in velious...just saying it doesn't sound like you actually pvp'd a lot in classic. Because with staff of t-flux and mod on sunstrike you actually had 108 fire.

Can you say "Salt's body is consumed with the fires of the sun"

Cool story though.

Probably because I would rarely get hit by rogues on live. Rogues on live didn't have sow swords, rarely bought a sow pot and had to live with jboot speed. I generally stuck to outdoor zones with lots of hills (remember hill bugging?), and would rarely drop below half hp against them.

You're also forgetting the part where I said if I came across a class where I needed a little extra resist, I would drop my agi buff and pick up an extra resist, in which case if t-flux staff and mod on sunstrike I would have 148 fire and sorry...it didn't do shit.

And actually I rolled a wizard on r99 when I first got here, rogue came much later. I was told by my <Tallon Zek> friends that they had enough shaman and that they needed porters. Otherwise I would have definitely rolled shaman off the start.

[Syft-X]

Probably because I would rarely get hit by rogues on live. Rogues on live didn't have sow swords, rarely bought a sow pot and had to live with jboot speed. I generally stuck to outdoor zones with lots of hills (remember hill bugging?), and would rarely drop below half hp against them.

You're also forgetting the part where I said if I came across a class where I needed a little extra resist, I would drop my agi buff and pick up an extra resist, in which case if t-flux staff and mod on sunstrike I would have 148 fire and sorry...it didn't do shit.

And actually I rolled a wizard on r99 when I first got here, rogue came much later. I was told by my <Tallon Zek> friends that they had enough shaman and that they needed porters. Otherwise I would have definitely rolled shaman off the start.

So on live your saying rogues didn't dmg you because they did't attain the gear that is considered the average here. But even tho they have 3x the gear here with 5x the utility, like everyone having 2-3 insta clicks for dispel, sow swords, cure pots, ac not factoring miss rates, and dmg being set 2x higher on melee's than what it was on live, you still want them to hold to the standard resist rates we saw on live... and you're saying I'm the guy who's asking for custom and not classic pvp?

Seems Legit.

[FaithlessKR]

So on live your saying rogues didn't dmg you because they did't attain the gear that is considered the average here. But even tho they have 3x the gear here with 5x the utility, like everyone having 2-3 insta clicks for dispel, sow swords, cure pots, ac not factoring miss rates, and dmg being set 2x higher on melee's than what it was on live, you still want them to hold to the standard resist rates we saw on live... and you're saying I'm the guy who's asking for custom and not classic pvp?

Seems Legit.

You are aware the VP was basically never farmed on live on anything other than Rallos Zek right? Both Tallon and Vallon never even started raiding VP until after velious was out and because velious had better items they didn't look at VP as a priority.

You're coming into this assuming that this game will be exactly the same as it was back then. Unfortunately the game is now 16 years old, and people have had that long to learn how to make themselves better over that time.

I played a shaman on live and I can count on one hand the people who bought sow pots regularly, I don't remember a single sow sword on Tallon Zek..which means it didn't drop or someone quit with it and it never resurfaced. People in velious era would have 1-2 instant clicks, higher ups in pandemonium and discordia would rock 3-4 and they were a force to be reckoned with.

As for this whole melee doing 2x damage thing, you're reaching. Nirgon has posted screenshots of rogues doing just about the damage I do during velious. The issue at hand you need to be contesting is the way AC works. Because it doesn't, and has never worked properly on this server.

[Syft-X]

You are aware the VP was basically never farmed on live on anything other than Rallos Zek right? Both Tallon and Vallon never even started raiding VP until after velious was out and because velious had better items they didn't look at VP as a priority.

You're coming into this assuming that this game will be exactly the same as it was back then. Unfortunately the game is now 16 years old, and people have had that long to learn how to make themselves better over that time.



Actually that exactly my point...exactly! If everyone had attained this lvl of gear they would have never reduced nukes and dots by 66%. You want all the benefits of the custom rules in regards to dmg this server offers melees, but want all the EXACT resist coding of live for casters EVEN tho it's 16 years later and the average gear here is insanely better.

So Classic when it suits your class and custom when it doesn't.

[FaithlessKR]

Actually that exactly my point...exactly! If everyone had attained this lvl of gear they would have never reduced nukes and dots by 66%. You want all the benefits of the custom rules in regards to dmg this server offers melees, but want all the EXACT resist coding of live for casters EVEN tho it's 16 years later and the average gear here is insanely better.

So Classic when it suits your class and custom when it doesn't.

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that i asked for nukes and dots to be reduced or whatever and it's making you sound really dumb. Having a classic resist table is something that i truly believe is necessary for this era of everquest, as people just don't have enough hp to deal with being cc locked with no way out.

I personally feel that I'd they fix poison resist numbers for this era that dots should be doing their classic damage values. Nuke values were decreased in velious i remember, so reverting them for the two months we have left on this xpac wouldn't really serve a point imo.

Bottom line, find valid arguments and stop trying to clump me in with whoever called for nuke/dot changes or whatever.

[Syft-X]

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that i asked for nukes and dots to be reduced or whatever and it's making you sound really dumb. Having a classic resist table is something that i truly believe is necessary for this era of everquest, as people just don't have enough hp to deal with being cc locked with no way out.

I personally feel that I'd they fix poison resist numbers for this era that dots should be doing their classic damage values. Nuke values were decreased in velious i remember, so reverting them for the two months we have left on this xpac wouldn't really serve a point imo.

Bottom line, find valid arguments and stop trying to clump me in with whoever called for nuke/dot changes or whatever.

Nuke and dots were adjusted in kunark to a-66% reduction because people were getting destroyed by spells landing for full with low resists

Patches and changes in pvp were adjusted according to what was going on in that era if everyone in kunark had the resistances to not get hit by anything but lure and lifetap they never would have reduced nukes.

If people were always using cure pots, they never would have reduced dots.

If backstab was landing like a lifeburn they would have capped the dmg.(but on live a max backstab hit which was rare was like 900 not 1700)

Keeping it classic is not an excuse to over-rule common sense which is what a lot of people on bug reports is using it for. Like when we removed trak teeth because everyone was blowing one every pvp encounter. I understand that lying to the staff because they don't engage in pvp to know where the balance is, has become the norm here.

But I don't need the insane advantages you do to excel in pvp, which is why I never choose to play a rogue here.

If we are going to reduce caster dmg to absolutely classic lvls regardless of where the gear lvl stands then we need to reduce melee dmg to absolutely classic lvls, don't see what you don't understand about that. Oh you play a rogue lol

[FaithlessKR]

Nuke and dots were adjusted in kunark to a-66% reduction because people were getting destroyed by spells landing for full with low resists

Patches and changes in pvp were adjusted according to what was going on in that era if everyone in kunark had the resistances to not get hit by anything but lure and lifetap they never would have reduced nukes.

If people were always using cure pots, they never would have reduced dots.

If backstab was landing like a lifeburn they would have capped the dmg.(but on live a max backstab hit which was rare was like 900 not 1700)

Keeping it classic is not an excuse to over-rule common sense which is what a lot of people on bug reports is using it for. Like when we removed trak teeth because everyone was blowing one every pvp encounter. I understand that lying to the staff because they don't engage in pvp to know where the balance is, has become the norm here.

But I don't need the insane advantages you do to excel in pvp, which is why I never choose to play a rogue here.

If we are going to reduce caster dmg to absolutely classic lvls regardless of where the gear lvl stands then we need to reduce melee dmg to absolutely classic lvls, don't see what you don't understand about that. Oh you play a rogue lol


I seriously feel like I'm talking to someone short term memory loss, we're telling you and showing you stuff and you turn around and repeat the same shit again. Melee damage is where it was at on live servers at this time, the way AC works is not where it was.

Done talking to you, find some relevant argument to crusade over...because we've already beaten this dead horse into the ground.

- Fix poison/disease resists and move dots back to 100% damage

- Make AC a stat that reflects it's purpose by the damage melees do to them.

[Syft-X]

I seriously feel like I'm talking to someone short term memory loss, we're telling you and showing you stuff and you turn around and repeat the same shit again. Melee damage is where it was at on live servers at this time, the way AC works is not where it was.

Done talking to you, find some relevant argument to crusade over...because we've already beaten this dead horse into the ground.

- Fix poison/disease resists and move dots back to 100% damage

- Make AC a stat that reflects it's purpose by the damage melees do to them.

Classic

Capped backstab dmg

Classic Wep skill - AC modifier = Hit value

The hit boxes previously were much closer to classic BUT due to high MS we adjusted them for certain people, CUSTOM CHANGE!

If was very common to see someone hit for low dmg a few times before a big hit, it was very common for melee's to miss quite a bit.

This is called classic balance kiddo, sorry you want Rogues Custom Playground, but if you fruitcakes are gonna run to the forums to get cry nerfs on casters while all the custom cards in the deck were stacked in favor of melee's, then expect the same done to your class.

[FaithlessKR]

Classic

Capped backstab dmg

Classic Wep skill - AC modifier = Hit value

The hit boxes previously were much closer to classic BUT due to high MS we adjusted them for certain people, CUSTOM CHANGE!

If was very common to see someone hit for low dmg a few times before a big hit, it was very common for melee's to miss quite a bit.

This is called classic balance kiddo, sorry you want Rogues Custom Playground, but if you fruitcakes are gonna run to the forums to get cry nerfs on casters while all the custom cards in the deck were stacked in favor of melee's, then expect the same done to your class.

Nothing custom about the damage I deal other than the rate at which I'm doing it to high ac targets. Proof is in the screenshots nirgon provided you with, get over it.

[Syft-X]

Nothing custom about the damage I deal other than the rate at which I'm doing it to high ac targets. Proof is in the screenshots nirgon provided you with, get over it.

Yea Nirgon posted max dmg duelist backstab in VELIOUS at 900ish!

Max backstabs here I've seen for 1700+

Yea it proved how ridic this server is for melee's.

[Platexchange]

As I have stated on many occasions, this is not and will never be classic Everquest. It will always be a recreated version that itself customizes to try and maintain balance to the servers we currently have. Sony would have changed a lot of stuff if they saw big guilds pvping in full bis gear. The truth is from a pvp standpoint, some shit should be classic but some shit needs to be taken out. Hindsight is 20/20, we need to do some serious tweaking, not based on ideas or feelings but data. R99 is not VZ but it is still the shell of eq which is why we are all here

[derpcake]

LMFAO got hit for 1600 BS not to long ago with 850 ac on BK, everyday I see backstabs that range from 1200-1700 on high ac targets.

i like the two handed weep guy hitting for 66 then 33 then 193 if it were here it woulda been 158, 178, 193.

In line with here GTFO

I'm not seeing these hits tbh. Had Sandusky & Chuckdusky on me, Deluxee and some others, nothing near that though.

You got any SS?

[Syft-X]

I'm not seeing these hits tbh. Had Sandusky & Chuckdusky on me, Deluxee and some others, nothing near that though.

You got any SS?

We gonna pretend now like this doesnt happen on the reg? You wanna go down this road?

Just to show how retarded that is, one of the people denying that backstab dmg, has a 704 single shot Backstab in his own sig. LOL

http://i.imgur.com/dMPl8Iz.jpg

That shows a theoretical 1400 if both landed for same dmg.

[Colgate]

every post i see where syft complains about melee damage here i load up that classic era screenshot of chuckslaw backstabbing a geared out shadowknight for 750 350 and then chortle to myself

[koros]

Max damage with duelist was 1106 damage per backstab (2212 theoretical double) with a Ragebringer pve. Was pvp melee damage coded the same way?

[FaithlessKR]

We gonna pretend now like this doesnt happen on the reg? You wanna go down this road?

Just to show how retarded that is, one of the people denying that backstab dmg, has a 704 single shot Backstab in his own sig. LOL

http://i.imgur.com/dMPl8Iz.jpg

That shows a theoretical 1400 if both landed for same dmg.

If you think rogues cant hit a 704 duelist you're absolutely retarded and need to walk away. I haven't denied any duelist backstab damage for less than 1k, stop making up lies.

[FaithlessKR]

Max damage with duelist was 1106 damage per backstab (2212 theoretical double) with a Ragebringer pve. Was pvp melee damage coded the same way?

http://i.imgur.com/0itpFqC.png

http://i.imgur.com/z8xDldL.png

This was about 2 years ago before a couple of different rogue damage nerfs.

http://i.imgur.com/dVytIph.jpg

This is a fight from last week with Sandusky where I made him plug, lots of low to mid range backstabs which is generally what we see 90% of the time, with the other 10% being the occasional mid 400 to 500.

The 500's shouldn't happen if AC is working correctly which it's not.

[Syft-X]

You backstab Wetall for 336 points of damage.
You backstab Wetall for 714 points of damage.

plate class taking over 1k from a duelist backstab seems in line with what we see on this server

the last time i saw a 1000+ hit from a single backstab swing on red99 was back when sitting damage code was bugged and it did a theoretical max hit every time

Last time i saw a single backstab swing for 1K+ was last week, but I guess if i played a monk I'd lie my ass off about melee dmg scaling my damnself.

[FaithlessKR]

Last time i saw a single backstab swing for 1K+ was last week, but I guess if i played a monk I'd lie my ass off about melee dmg scaling my damnself.

Crazy how much more often you see 1k backstabs than I do. I've done it once in 3 months since coming back and it was on a mob. It is possible in pvp, but the chances of it happening are so small that it's not even worth talking about.

[Syft-X]

Crazy how much more often you see 1k backstabs than I do. I've done it once in 3 months since coming back and it was on a mob. It is possible in pvp, but the chances of it happening are so small that it's not even worth talking about.

Yep and as a guy who mains a rogue we should totally trust your word on that one.

Don't worry I'll post proof I always do and then Haynar will have a good idea who's word never to trust in regards to pvp implementations.

Unlike myself who bug reported Highsun when i main'd a bard, bug reported aoe unlimited range when I main'd a wizard, and bug reported malosini when it was landing on high mr targets when I played a shaman.

[Colgate]

i think the only posts i have ever seen syft make in the bugs section were posts crying about melee damage

it was a running joke about how he suddenly stopped posting bug report threads when shamans were retarded with malosini and blind

[Syft-X]

i think the only posts i have ever seen syft make in the bugs section were posts crying about melee damage

it was a running joke about how he suddenly stopped posting bug report threads when shamans were retarded with malosini and blind

Oh really?


Yesterday I had a malosini land on me with 150 MR, something I never saw before on live. That's a minus 140 to all resists for a 3 second cast lol. This spell should never land that well. Trust me I would love it if it did, but it's not classic and is too much of an advantage for Shamans.

Melee dmg still isn't scaling properly with Ac it feels ok now, but come velious were gonna watch a repeat of the same thing we had in kunark.

Poison threshold also set far to high poisons landing like they are unresistable.

You were saying?

Yea sorry colgate I'm not a whiny pos that cries on bug reports till my class is the most OP thing in the game I ask for fair balance even when it hurts the class I'm playing.

[Luniz]

Last time i saw a single backstab swing for 1K+ was last week, but I guess if i played a monk I'd lie my ass off about melee dmg scaling my damnself.

lol

[FaithlessKR]

Yep and as a guy who mains a rogue we should totally trust your word on that one.

Don't worry I'll post proof I always do and then Haynar will have a good idea who's word never to trust in regards to pvp implementations.

Unlike myself who bug reported Highsun when i main'd a bard, bug reported aoe unlimited range when I main'd a wizard, and bug reported malosini when it was landing on high mr targets when I played a shaman.

Lol, you're a joke and have no clue what you're talking about. Think what you want, I could care less if rogues got nerfed due to your crying because unlike you I'll still be relevant after nerfs and I dislike playing a rogue with 130 ms as it is.

So please, go ahead and try to make up some more ridiculous lies about a class, that you don't and frankly can't play, so we can laugh at you about it.

[Rednaros]

Yep and as a guy who mains a rogue we should totally trust your word on that one.

Don't worry I'll post proof I always do and then Haynar will have a good idea who's word never to trust in regards to pvp implementations.

Unlike myself who bug reported Highsun when i main'd a bard, bug reported aoe unlimited range when I main'd a wizard, and bug reported malosini when it was landing on high mr targets when I played a shaman.

You just coincidentally managed to be maining every flavor of the month class? Hehehehe

[Syft-X]

You just coincidentally managed to be maining every flavor of the month class? Hehehehe

main'd a bard when every aoe in the game could hit you from anywhere and landed like a lure, only nasty thing about bards was highsun and stun being unresistable at the time...

Guess what I bug reported...Highsun and stun

Started my shaman when they were considered one of the worst PvP classes on the box, a class everyone else considered impossible to wrack up kills with. Had no idea the patch would drop while I played a shaman making malosini land on ridic high mr targets but what did I report...malosini.

Now I'm playing a Necro, lets see how many Necro's are ranked top 100..oh look 1 in the history of the server.

LOL while you played a Rogue and a Monk the two classes that have consistently been overpowered longer than any other class on the box.

[ElemtalRZ]

If you aren't going to allow players to be charmed and feared like it was in classic, then should remove the fact that a Magicians epic pet can be Poofed by a lvl 39 bard song that is unresistable and cost 20 mana.

[Nirgon]

Fear and charm were removed before our current timeline

You are making fools of yourselves

[Syft-X]

Fear and charm were removed before our current timeline

You are making fools of yourselves

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173712&page=2

Grudges obviously, guy plays a wizard on the box and supposedly played a wizard for 9 years on rallos zek.

Somehow tho..... Shock of lightning the most important wizard spell evades his pitch perfect memory.



Everyone who played a Wizard in Classic knows shock of lighting was unresistable, but Nirgon trying desperately to get unclassic changes so that no one can interrupt his guild's cleric chain CH's in NTOV.

Sad that people would stoop so low as to have the code changed to suit their pve dreams on a red server.

[Nirgon]

you dont have proof of people with 180 MR not resisting it

I didn't have 180 MR+ on RZ unless on a raid and people weren't using shock of lightning in mass pvp

I'd love a perfectly classic server, keep twistin'

btw doing things like dispelling raid mobs or interrupting a healer and gating to cause a wipe would be:

1st offense: suspension
2nd: 2 week suspension
3rd: ban

on RZ

It fell under intentional xp loss

Manaburning or otherwise trying to kill the main tank was fine tho

[Syft-X]

you dont have proof of people with 180 MR not resisting it

I didn't have 180 MR+ on RZ unless on a raid and people weren't using shock of lightning in mass pvp

I'd love a perfectly classic server, keep twistin'

btw doing things like dispelling raid mobs or interrupting a healer and gating to cause a wipe would be:

1st offense: suspension
2nd: 2 week suspension
3rd: ban

on RZ

It fell under intentional xp loss

Manaburning or otherwise trying to kill the main tank was fine tho

Do we need proof that pressing spacebar makes people jump? Or that spells use mana, you're asking for proof that is literally one of the most well known things in classic.

People were landing shock of lighting in Luclin era vs full vex thal geared people, if it weren't for shock of lighting, shock of blades, poison bolt and chaotic feedback every luclin fight vs wizard would have come down to who press'd Manaburn first.

I mean maybe you were so bad to just stand there and die to Manaburn but I interrupted everyone.

But thanks for making it clear that you are trying to lawyer doctor the rules and code so you can raid uninterrupted, and no one was ever suspended for pvping on a pvp server...go back to blue smurf.

[Nirgon]

fear/charm never going in

no proof of shock of lightning being unresistable at 180+ MR, no change

feels great rollin' to Temple of Veeshan with the wind in my hair

[Syft-X]

fear/charm never going in

no proof of shock of lightning being unresistable at 180+ MR, no change

feels great rollin' to Temple of Veeshan with the wind in my hair

Sorry bud but mad proof was already posted Haynar not gonna blindly take the word of an RMTer with a clear agenda for unclassic nerfs, vs everyone else who played a wizard saying the same damned thing

[Luniz]

syft can you stop linking p99 search results and just quote the relevant information (if there is any relevant information)?

thanks

[Syft-X]

syft can you stop linking p99 search results and just quote the relevant information (if there is any relevant information)?

thanks

Do you also need to quote that spacebar makes you jump, that spells cost mana?

Are there any other basic classic mechanics we need to quote for you?

You know if you press autoattack on and then off at the right time you can joust another player in melee pvp, are any of these pvp tips helping you?

Draga 644 15 3 5.00 6 6.97 Empire

15 kills in the year leader-board has been out, yikes. Guess your clearly very concerned about classic pvp mechanics and not what would best help your guild raid dragons unmolested.

Don't worry tho I'm sure Haynar will totally be fooled by a buncha empire feigning ignorance to classic mechanics, while everyone else who played a wizard in classic in multiple guilds are all saying the same thing. KEK

[Luniz]

syft can you stop linking p99 search results and just quote the relevant information (if there is any relevant information)?

thanks

[Syft-X]

Repeat the same thing that will fool um!

[FaithlessKR]

Do you also need to quote that spacebar makes you jump, that spells cost mana?

Are there any other basic classic mechanics we need to quote for you?

You know if you press autoattack on and then off at the right time you can joust another player in melee pvp, are any of these pvp tips helping you?

Draga 644 15 3 5.00 6 6.97 Empire

15 kills in the year leader-board has been out, yikes. Guess your clearly very concerned about classic pvp mechanics and not what would best help your guild raid dragons unmolested.

Don't worry tho I'm sure Haynar will totally be fooled by a buncha empire feigning ignorance to classic mechanics, while everyone else who played a wizard in classic in multiple guilds are all saying the same thing. KEK

You're posting in the wrong thread

[Syft-X]

You're posting in the wrong thread

No threads keep cross-blending

[FaithlessKR]

I don't want to degrade bug reports into a torrent of personal insults. But I will say that there are a few extremely vocal people on Bug Reports that don't seem to have pvp or adherence to classic balance as their intent.

While they feign ignorance to extremely well known Classic mechanics

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173712&page=3

They come across as the absolute authority in regards to others. All in the attempt to skew class balance in favor of their purposed and often ridiculous changes, while always masking their intentions behind a facade of cordial interest in server health.

However should you disagree with these individuals their true trollish nature becomes abundantly apparent and they quickly resort to immature trolling and mud slinging personal insults.

I think this farce has gone on long enough and is detrimental to pvp on this server, and quite likable to petition questing. Instead of other players, and bans, the code is being used to further their agenda.

You're the one who cross-blended them when your charm/fear discussion was debunked.

[Syft-X]

You're the one who cross-blended them when your charm/fear discussion was debunked.

We know salt like a pirate with a bionic eye your gonna focus on everything non guildmates do while being blind to the exact same thing your guildmates do.

But just be happy were...

https://33.media.tumblr.com/311f828de34280aed2c3285b30325485/tumblr_n4yomg6V5h1t93vt5o1_500.gif