so much litigationquest recently

[applesauce25r624]

we need Juntsie

[Swish]

we need Juntsie

[Ele]

No one needs Junstie.

[PDX0621]

Wonder what ever happened to that guy?

[Swish]

I bet he was walking home to Grobb one night after putting another RMT mafia member behind bars and got snatched up by a group of frogloks for dinner :(

[Portasaurus]

we need Juntsie

Juntsie where aaaareeee you!!!???

[Frieza_Prexus]

Wonder what ever happened to that guy?

Unbrella is still here.

[sambal]

I've been seeing so much griping about lawyering and the like... what is the problem, exactly?

[fastboy21]

the problem is people treating each other like garbage under the quasi-excuse/protection of not breaking the rules.

not breaking the rules is good but, just like in life, treating each other with respect regardless of rules is more important. MUCH more important. Communities aren't built by rules. before you dick someone over only to tell them "sorry, its not against the rules" maybe you should think twice about it first.

one of the emerging characteristics of p99 aging is that with all the alts and anonymity has also come a general lack of concern about one's reputation on the server. it will probably get worse as the server continues to move towards velious and re-99 launch.

some folks still value their reputation and do the right thing just because its the right thing to do.

[Champion_Standing]

the problem is people treating each other like garbage under the quasi-excuse/protection of not breaking the rules.

not breaking the rules is good but, just like in life, treating each other with respect regardless of rules is more important. MUCH more important. Communities aren't built by rules. before you dick someone over only to tell them "sorry, its not against the rules" maybe you should think twice about it first.

one of the emerging characteristics of p99 aging is that with all the alts and anonymity has also come a general lack of concern about one's reputation on the server. it will probably get worse as the server continues to move towards velious and re-99 launch.

some folks still value their reputation and do the right thing just because its the right thing to do.

I blame account sales and TMO, the community never recovered.

[sambal]

Let's just spitball here, but what if we gave all toons the same last name from the same account? Or all accounts that generally log in from the same MAC address would be required to have the same last name. I agree anonymity is a problem.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Let's just spitball here, but what if we gave all toons the same last name from the same account? Or all accounts that generally log in from the same MAC address would be required to have the same last name. I agree anonymity is a problem.

The best solution so far offered is that all accounts MUST tie to a forum handle. Actions against accounts apply to forum accounts and vice versa. If you own multiple accounts they must be tied to the same forum account. Anyone can look up a character's master account.

Attempts to circumvent this will lead to the account in question being banned. Proxy IPs, throwaway forum accounts, etc. and the like can be detected in the same way that MQ users are.

[Champion_Standing]

The best solution so far offered is that all accounts MUST tie to a forum handle. Actions against accounts apply to forum accounts and vice versa. If you own multiple accounts they must be tied to the same forum account. Anyone can look up a character's master account.

Attempts to circumvent this will lead to the account in question being banned. Proxy IPs, throwaway forum accounts, etc. and the like can be detected in the same way that MQ users are.


Well there are a couple things that prevent that from being effective. The main thing is that rule lawyering isn't a bannable offense, and neither is being a dick which is what this thread is about. Also AFAIK the GMs don't hand out punishment to alt accounts so it really doesn't matter either way, the offending account gets banned and you can start right up again, until that changes no other changes in account management will matter.

[Swish]

The best solution so far offered is that all accounts MUST tie to a forum handle. Actions against accounts apply to forum accounts and vice versa. If you own multiple accounts they must be tied to the same forum account. Anyone can look up a character's master account.

Attempts to circumvent this will lead to the account in question being banned. Proxy IPs, throwaway forum accounts, etc. and the like can be detected in the same way that MQ users are.

papers-please.mp3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbBB1j5qAFs)

[Portasaurus]

glory to arstostka

[sambal]

The best solution so far offered is that all accounts MUST tie to a forum handle. Actions against accounts apply to forum accounts and vice versa. If you own multiple accounts they must be tied to the same forum account. Anyone can look up a character's master account.

Attempts to circumvent this will lead to the account in question being banned. Proxy IPs, throwaway forum accounts, etc. and the like can be detected in the same way that MQ users are.

I get what you're saying, but how is the average person going to be able to access this information? If you can target a person and type /forumhandle or something, then that would be a good compromise.

[webrunner5]

The problem is the present, and past Top Guilds, have threw reason out the door for Pixels. Simple as that. :o

[Champion_Standing]

The problem is the present, and past Top Guilds, have threw reason out the door for Pixels. Simple as that. :o

I still blame account sales, it created a toxic culture that did not value reputation on this server that still exists today.

[sambal]

Wow this makes me sick. I'd never been into the Raid forums before.

I still blame account sales, it created a toxic culture that did not value reputation on this server that still exists today.

Simple fix, return all accounts to the original email address they were created with. I couldn't agree more, certain guilds bought up retired accounts.

[fastboy21]

Wow this makes me sick. I'd never been into the Raid forums before.



Simple fix, return all accounts to the original email address they were created with. I couldn't agree more, certain guilds bought up retired accounts.

It wasn't always against the rules to buy an account with plat. Many accounts changed hands with the blessing of the staff for much of the history of p99. RMT was always against the rules, but there is no way to sort out who was RMTing from who wasn't just be universally returning all accounts to their original emails. Also, it probably isn't even possible.

[rekreant]

I think this server was better with account sales.

[Swish]

Selling my first account here was a bad idea in hindsight, but it did help me twink my cleric. This was before mass epic MQs, I wouldn't have been able to afford one of those for sure :p

[iruinedyourday]

I was thinking about it last night, which in retrospect saddens me for tottally different reasons.. but whatever.

So I was thinking, I bet the reason we have so many petition/letigation quests, is because the server is run so well.. the volunteers and everything is really great.

If you think about it, its like, your corpse rots? too bad, why should they help you get it back? someone steels your camp? wtf do they owe you, why should they spend thier time to figure out who gets to keep it?

But, they DO care... they DO summon your corpse, they DO want you to keep playing and enjoying classic EQ

Thats awesome... thanks for making us care so much we feel we have the right to petition over stuff!!!

<3 ty volunteers staff and everyone who plays! <3 p99

[Champion_Standing]

Corpse retrieval =/= camp lawyering

[iruinedyourday]

Corpse retrieval =/= camp lawyering

oh I'm just saying, that why should they help anyone.. were so lucky they are there.

On live, you could be like, 'hey I pay for this, if you dont spend YOUR time getting my corpse, then ill quit and you wont get my monies'

here its like, 'hey im sad, your my bro and we love the same things and you're so nice, can you please take time out of your life to make mine better for free?'

which is awesome.

and that great respect that they give the community here, is why we /petition all the small stuff.

[rekreant]

I hate it when people say we should shut up and be happy to have it, you bring nothing to the table.

[Littlestgnome]

I've experienced this a handful of times already since coming back to the server roughly a month ago. I think what it boils down to is that despite the Play Nice Policy (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299) presumably in effect here, many people are willing to roll the dice on the matter. Not necessarily because they think they'll end up winning, rather because they frequently will end up not losing anything.

[kenzar]

some folks still value their reputation and do the right thing just because its the right thing to do.

This would be good advice, if this were a real community, in the sense of existing in reality and not a game. I cannot in real life simply log on an alt and completely treat someone like garbage (within the rules) and get away with it by logging back in on my main. On EQ you can (provided u dont break external constraints established by staff) and there are no consequences because it's an alt. Who's to know who it is? Stop treating it like real life and see for what it is: a competitive game. In any competitive game the ideas of morality are lifted (again within the rules of the game), playing like they somehow hold any bearing only serves to handicap you. If someone chooses to treat people like garbage (and don't break any rules) if you perceive them to be at some sort of advantage because of it, or you feel you are at a disadvantage because of that, then you can either cry or adapt strategy that counters it. But the idea that you will do the right thing, because it is the right thing in the context of a video game is naive to even consider. IRL you are correct, not not here or any competitive game that isn't IRL.

[iruinedyourday]

I hate it when people say we should shut up and be happy to have it, you bring nothing to the table.

you sound like you only bring a bad attitude to the table

[kenzar]

you sound like you only bring a bad attitude to the table

"sounding like" and "being" are 2 distinct things. He is right, the mentality that "just be thankful this even exists" doesn't bring anything to the table that everyone isn't already very aware of. The reason you don't see this board empty is because people still think the use of discussion can make this box better. If you view rational discussion as people being "unthankful" then maybe you shouldn't engage in it. Simply put, the "be thankful it even exists" mentality tables a lot of problems, but it also tables any opportunity for any advancements that are not from a place of " being unthankful" to begin with.

Example: "You think p99 staff should have to offer raid supervision and rulings? You should just be thankful you can raid!"

Result: No GM rulings, no sense of accountability instilled. The raid scene is worse off and no one has a raid scene to be even be thankful for. Great.

Conclusion: be thankful, but don't think voicing an opinion in a rational manner constitutes not being thankful. You can still be thankful and voice an opinion that this server is run by a bunch of idiots or a bunch of genius. The distinction is made when you have a possible solution to your problem that you couple it with. Your "just be thankful" mentality offers no solutions, or possibility of fixing things beyond the state they were created.

Finally, the assumption that the staff were drafted or compelled/coerced into their positions. This is a volunteer position, they wanted to be where they are, the idea that they "give up" free time isn't true in the sense you portray it. They gave up that portion of their free time when they applied for the position, and they are free to take it back the minute they don't feel it was necessary. No one has Sirken chained up and is shocking him with a cattle prod until he gets back to the keyboard to "give up" more free time, stop acting like it.

[fastboy21]

This would be good advice, if this were a real community, in the sense of existing in reality and not a game. I cannot in real life simply log on an alt and completely treat someone like garbage (within the rules) and get away with it by logging back in on my main. On EQ you can (provided u dont break external constraints established by staff) and there are no consequences because it's an alt. Who's to know who it is? Stop treating it like real life and see for what it is: a competitive game. In any competitive game the ideas of morality are lifted (again within the rules of the game), playing like they somehow hold any bearing only serves to handicap you. If someone chooses to treat people like garbage (and don't break any rules) if you perceive them to be at some sort of advantage because of it, or you feel you are at a disadvantage because of that, then you can either cry or adapt strategy that counters it. But the idea that you will do the right thing, because it is the right thing in the context of a video game is naive to even consider. IRL you are correct, not not here or any competitive game that isn't IRL.

you totally misunderstood the segment of mine you quoted. i agree with you. the point of my post was that folks here DO NOT treat each right because of all the reasons I (and then you) listed. I also said that it is worse here than it was on live, because of the timeline being off allowing for even casual players to have maxed out multiple high end chars. I also said that I think it will get worse as the server continues to age.

what i said at the end of my post is that despite all of that, there are SOME folks that will still do the right thing simply because it is right. Obviously, EQ is only a game...but I stopped considering it MERELY a game a long time ago. EQ is played with REAL people.

Folks who value the community side of EQ more than the pixels have always found each other in EQ. On p99, people know who the guilds are that care more about the players behind the toon than the pixels looted. People also know the guilds that only care about pixel loot and only consider EQ a competitive game (played to be won!).

The very notion of playing EQ to win doesn't make sense to me. I realize that I'm by far in the minority on that...BUT I'm not the only one either. There are good communities---real communities---on p99.

[kenzar]

you totally misunderstood the segment of mine you quoted. i agree with you. the point of my post was that folks here DO NOT treat each right because of all the reasons I (and then you) listed. I also said that it is worse here than it was on live, because of the timeline being off allowing for even casual players to have maxed out multiple high end chars. I also said that I think it will get worse as the server continues to age.

what i said at the end of my post is that despite all of that, there are SOME folks that will still do the right thing simply because it is right. Obviously, EQ is only a game...but I stopped considering it MERELY a game a long time ago. EQ is played with REAL people.

Folks who value the community side of EQ more than the pixels have always found each other in EQ. On p99, people know who the guilds are that care more about the players behind the toon than the pixels looted. People also know the guilds that only care about pixel loot and only consider EQ a competitive game (played to be won!).

The very notion of playing EQ to win doesn't make sense to me. I realize that I'm by far in the minority on that...BUT I'm not the only one either. There are good communities---real communities---on p99.

Fair enough, guess I misunderstood.

[iruinedyourday]

Conclusion: be thankful, but don't think voicing an opinion in a rational manner constitutes not being thankful. You can still be thankful and voice an opinion that this server is run by a bunch of idiots or a bunch of genius.

thats what my post was smh

you guys have your panties in such a bunch you cant concentrate on anything but your own rage.

nowhere did I say just be thankfull.. i was calling out that because of the good treatment, and solid server, we feel that we can /petition pretty much anything.

Its a cause and effect thing I was posting about.

Not how to perform.

[Eunomia]

No one has Sirken chained up and is shocking him with a cattle prod until he gets back to the keyboard to "give up" more free time, stop acting like it.

That's what you think...

[lecompte]

I thought that was Friday nights?

Tuesday nights is melted wax.

[kenzar]

thats what my post was smh

you guys have your panties in such a bunch you cant concentrate on anything but your own rage.

nowhere did I say just be thankfull.. i was calling out that because of the good treatment, and solid server, we feel that we can /petition pretty much anything.

Its a cause and effect thing I was posting about.

Not how to perform.

You post I quoted and was a response to this quote below but only a small part was directed at you.

you sound like you only bring a bad attitude to the table

I did not address anything you had said beyond what is contained in this quote, more of the general spirit of "be thankful it exists" argument. If it looks like my entire post was directed at you, I'm sorry it wasn't made to look that way. I notice now I was freely using the 'your' and I can see how that could be misunderstood as in 'you the person I quoted.' Meant it more in the sense of 'you the person who is reading this and holds the thankful argument dear.'


I agree with your sentiment that it is a good thing that we feel a petition can be or will be read.

[knix]

"
No one has Sirken chained up and is shocking him with a cattle prod until he gets back to the keyboard.


That's what you think...


Eunomia can I have a turn next week, I have a bit of rage I need to work out.

[iruinedyourday]

You post I quoted and was a response to this quote below but only a small part was directed at you.



I did not address anything you had said beyond what is contained in this quote, more of the general spirit of "be thankful it exists" argument. If it looks like my entire post was directed at you, I'm sorry it wasn't made to look that way. I notice now I was freely using the 'your' and I can see how that could be misunderstood as in 'you the person I quoted.' Meant it more in the sense of 'you the person who is reading this and holds the thankful argument dear.'


I agree with your sentiment that it is a good thing that we feel a petition can be or will be read.

It takes a lot of balls and bad assness to post apologies and friendly shit on video games forums and for that, we thank you!

http://www.iywib.com/good_guy_greg_69.jpg

[Pringles]

I wonder what the % is of the those that complain about this free server / its staff actually donate to the server to keep it running. I would be willing to bet its less than 10%.