Best Shaman Race?

[serjordanmormont]

Just wondering about shaman on blue.

Started up an Iksar on blue who is a blast, but I'm a tad worried that being hated everywhere will really hinder my experience. Any thoughts on that?

Seems like most shaman races are evil except Barbarians. But I don't have much interest in playing a Barb. More into Iksar and Trolls.

Am I missing any cool quests or gear that I should be aware of by not playing a certain race?

Any help is appreciated.

[Deckk]

Well, here's the big thing in my eyes (I'm not a min/max type of person, though I do like to be in good shape to be "solid"):

Barbarians are going to be welcome pretty much everywhere besides evil areas (which is a large portion of the cities in the game, to be honest).

Trolls and Ogres will be welcome in Grobb, Oggok and Neriak, but not many other places. Which can be a pain.

Iksar aren't welcome anywhere but Cabilis. Which is definitely a pain.

But, if that's something you're prepared to deal with, snag the one that you want to play. That's a tired answer, and not what you're looking for, but if being KOS everywhere is a big deal to you your best bet is a barbarian. Trolls and Ogres are the in between (although all of the cities you'd be welcome in are in Antonica). Iksars are terrible in that sense.

Obviously, you can do faction work through grinding.

But I think that's what your decision boils down to... Do you want to deal with KOS?

[Swish]

Troll shamans worshiping Innoruuk get a very long casting, short duration snare necklace.

Iksars can't slam like the other 3.

Server is riddled with shamans, and I think it's fair to say about 80% of them are trolls/ogres. People don't pick barbarians partly because of their starting area, I think. Same for other barbarian classes.

Iksar have the best starting area hands down... and with Velious not too far away you don't have to worry so much about being dealt out of some decent armor pieces, although you'll never use a Jaundiced Bone Bracer. If that's a clincher, don't pick an iksar :p

At least with faction you know where you stand as a lizard, kill everything and nothing will change ;)

[serjordanmormont]

I'm surprised about the lack of Barbs. I'd have guessed they would be the most popular race for a shaman.

[Swish]

There were definitely more barb shamans on live "back in the day", unless my 15 year old memories are warped... might well be.

[Deckk]

Everfrost is kind of isolated. But I don't think it's a bad area. Easy access to Blackburrow and Qeynos.

[trinkets]

Ogre is best at 60 for soloing, frontal stun immunity (probably better for leveling as well if soloing.)

Troll is best for sexy and regen.

Iksar has good stats, AC bonus and regen, no JBB as someone else mentioned.

Barbarians basically only have the city friendly old world advantage.

Ogre is the power gamer's choice. Shaman is incredibly powerful, they are all fine. Once you have torpor it hardly matters.

[Champion_Standing]

Anything but barbarian

[Champion_Standing]

There were definitely more barb shamans on live "back in the day", unless my 15 year old memories are warped... might well be.

There definitely were a lot more, most of the shamans I played with regularly on live were barbs.

[Deckk]

Anything but barbarian

To some that faction is a big reason TO play barbarian.

That's not to say there aren't other advantages for the others.

Actually, to be honest, I don't find frontal stun immunity to be that big of a deal and find Ogre to be the worst Shaman choice.

Barb for faction, Troll for having more accessible cities than Iksar/Regen, Iksar for starting zone, ac and regen.

To each their own, really. It's just good for people to know what they're choosing when they choose it.

[EQJubilee]

Ogre is the best choice due to their racial frontal stun immunity.

If you want a race with regen then go Iksar for the bonus AC racial.

[Deckk]

OP,

See how everyone has a different opinion? If I were you, I'd weigh all the things that are important to you and pick from there. Know what the advantages are to each, know the disadvantages and pick for your preference :)

[webrunner5]

Big races are a pain in the butt in a lot of Dungeons. Even getting past them AFK or Medding is a pain. But they do have their advantages at times.

Mine is a Barb, I think the best compromise of them all. They all have something to compromise. :D

[lecompte]

Ogre is the best choice due to their racial frontal stun immunity.

If you want a race with regen then go Iksar for the bonus AC racial.

I agree with this. All that said, I still have a barb shaman :D

[Kutsumo]

IMO, Ogre>Troll>Barb>Iksar.

I wouldn't want to give up the Kunark/planar gear on the Iksar, even with velious gear equality.

You might be a *tiny* bit better overall on a troll if you time bashes and stuff, but Ogre is pretty easy only needing to worry about keeping mobs in front and counteracting push.

Any way you go, Sham is a very powerful class and you won't feel weak due to race choice at any point.

[indiscriminate_hater]

FRONTAL STUM IMMUNITY GARBLEAARGGHGHABLE

[Swish]

FRONTAL STUM IMMUNITY GARBLEAARGGHGHABLE

I roll my eyes every time people go super min/max mode... goog post.

[bled12345]

Something no one mentioned.... if you go barb shaman, you have to go back to Halas to buy your spells every 5 levels. Unless you want to mess around trying to get someone to buy your spells in grobb / oggok. Halas is a pain in the ass to get to, and much like iksar, it's the only place you can really go to get your shaman stuff.

A Barb rogue or warrior can do their training in freeport etc.

[Erica]

I've lived many times when I wouldn't have on my shaman because she is an ogre. The frontal stun immunity on a caster who gets hit a lot is just too good if you are trying to find "the best" race.

Plus ogres are the sexiest.

[Rararboker]

Plus ogres are the sexiest.



Guys. Guys.

*I* have the fairest lady in the land!! The big, beautiful Greengroceress!!

Fap away!

http://i.imgur.com/jLhI1fZ.jpg




The sexy is for real.

[zajurai]

I want this on a shirt.


*cough*
Anyway, shaman race has a lot of flexibility compared to some other classes (Warrior = Ogre or gtfo, sk = iksar/troll or gtfo, necro = iksar or gtfo, etc. etc.) Every shaman race has their own benefits and drawbacks that all balance out in the end, and it's the only class that does this. Even if you're a bloodsucking, joy-killing minmax memelord you can choose whichever race you want. I'd personally go Iksar but that's biased towards personal preference.

[Jimjam]

1st choice: Polar bear.

2nd choice: Guktan Froglok.

[zajurai]

1st choice: Polar bear.

2nd choice: Guktan Froglok.
Might as well take down the thread, we have a clear winner here!

[Orruar]

In regards to best race for soloing:

Most people say ogre for soloing. All the best shaman soloers say troll or iksar. Do the math.

[cormag]

Troll is best for sexy

[Daldaen]

Iksar/Troll shamans will regen 1248 per Torpor
Ogre/Barbaian shamans will regen 1216 per Torpor

A night of raiding and casting canni/buffs or spot healing or slowing or maloing, that extra health will add up, allowing you to canni more and cast more.

[Samaritan]

Iksar/Troll shamans will regen 1248 per Torpor
Ogre/Barbaian shamans will regen 1216 per Torpor

A night of raiding and casting canni/buffs or spot healing or slowing or maloing, that extra health will add up, allowing you to canni more and cast more.

At that point, you don't even notice the difference. You can canni / torpor to your heart's content. Its common knowledge that regen is basically a non-factor when you get Torpor.

[curtischoy]

If no one posted this already...here is a link to a thread with 212 replies.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186770&highlight=shaman

Most hate on Barb, but...

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80165&highlight=challenge

The only Solo God shaman is a barb.

[Daldaen]

At that point, you don't even notice the difference. You can canni / torpor to your heart's content. Its common knowledge that regen is basically a non-factor when you get Torpor.

You don't notice the difference with other racial benefits.

But atleast that one if you're grinding out buffs and chain canni/Torporing, you will get more mileage as a Troll/Iksar. Just so long as you are never letting yourself hit max HP which the best shamans don't.

[stinkfist37]

Ogre is by far the best at 60. High stam/frontal stun immunity are still very useful at 60, whereas regen isn't very important once you have torpor.

[Kelor]

As your getting stunned waiting for slow to land, are you not losing more hp than you would as Ogre? making regen pointless.

[Kutsumo]

As your getting stunned waiting for slow to land, are you not losing more hp than you would as Ogre? making regen pointless.

No because you're counting seconds between bashes like a pro.

[Daldaen]

As your getting stunned waiting for slow to land, are you not losing more hp than you would as Ogre? making regen pointless.

This begs to question why you haven't rooted, or had your pet tank. Also all those cases where you're in a duo or group where someone else is tanking. Or on any raid where you're not tanking. Even when you are tanking bash is rather infrequent and it doesn't hit every time. Push interrupts more than bash in my experience playing, even when corner tanking. Which Ogres get interrupted by.

The situations where an ogre is facing a bash are far less frequent than those where a Shaman would not be at full HP and would be actively be regenning.

[serjordanmormont]

All great points. Good to know shaman are still quite powerful. I was mainly worried I was going to miss out on something huge like key gear by going with an Iksar. Is JBB worth re-rolling as a troll for or do you guys think I'm good?

For context, I'm mostly grouping with buddies who are playing Iksar Necro, Wood Elf Ranger, Half Elf Bard, and Barbarian rogue so we have good and evil factions regardless.

[Orruar]

As your getting stunned waiting for slow to land, are you not losing more hp than you would as Ogre? making regen pointless.

If you're tanking an unslowed mob, you're doing it wrong.

[Daldaen]

All great points. Good to know shaman are still quite powerful. I was mainly worried I was going to miss out on something huge like key gear by going with an Iksar. Is JBB worth re-rolling as a troll for or do you guys think I'm good?

For context, I'm mostly grouping with buddies who are playing Iksar Necro, Wood Elf Ranger, Half Elf Bard, and Barbarian rogue so we have good and evil factions regardless.

JBB is lazymode option.

Once you get 60/Torpor, you can DPS better by spending time doing DoTs and canning back the mana I'm pretty sure.

IMO it's not worth rerolling over. Iksars look way cooler too.

[Ezalor]

oh look another shaman race thread

[serjordanmormont]

oh look another shaman race thread

So I'm guessing your vote is troll? #dadjokes

[Kelor]

One clicky worth mentioning is the JB breastplate, which gives AC and DS. I hear the AC bonus for Iksar is only 40 - 45 and that gives 18 and 3 Damage Shield.

[Orruar]

Once you get 60/Torpor, you can DPS better by spending time doing DoTs and canning back the mana I'm pretty sure.

That's correct.

[blondeattk]

`This begs to question why you haven't rooted, or had your pet tank. `

because your tanking a lvl 50+ summoning mob.....soloing high lvl named mobs is wot 60 shms do. (post torpor)

...troll is my answer.....until velious, then id say ogre or iksar.

[iruinedyourday]

ah man so bummed I didnt get onto this thread at page 1

The correct answer: Ogre

Why?: So you can give them inferiority complexes to everyone else.

And then?: a barb is able to run out of solB with a small train, past you while you are stuck in the hallway and die.

and after that?: 4 years later you get an AoN and you are finally the best race for a shaman.

Except: on a CR in SolB you get stuck and die again, but you dont care cus you're 60 and have been for 4 years.

the result?: you play from the library because 4 years of P99 has caused you to miss out on life and your family had left you long ago.

Ogre, to make people who didn't roll ogre feel bad.

[iruinedyourday]

Truth be told, ogre is the best, if you can get your hands on a AoN or Dark elf mask..

I have now played a barb & a Ogre to 60.. these are my thoughts.

Barb PRO:
-Faction, on blue is great, because you can recharge items easily in EC/WC where you can make this your 'hub'.. Im more efficent because of this (can ogre get faction to merchant out there? if so then this is moot point)
- Leveling is easier on a barb, you get an Xp bonus, and you dont get stuck and die in every hallway, its seriously an issue for an ogre.
CONS
-have to go to halas to get spells
-feel like you have a small penis cus evryone tells you how big the ogre's are.

Ogre PRO:
-Frontal stun, yea at 60+ its valuble, but pre60 it isnt. you dont face tank really, perhaps the argument that you can sit and JBB spam on slowed mobs when farming stuff can be made, but you shouldnt be farming stuff till 60 and should just be getting XP and 60.
CONS
-Size makes leveling a pain, you will get stuck in hallways on CR's and are less efficent cus you cant just RUN IN HELLA FAST and snipe a corpse or something the way a barb can, you gotta get in, shrink, etc.
-You will get killed trying to buy spells in grob, cus people that made vannila EQ loved making people cry back in 1999 by making NPC's that one shotthem at level 2 for lol's

A best in slot, lvl 60 ogre shaman, will always have something the barb doesnt have. But all in all, the stuff you do inbetween face tanking, and the times face tanking frontal stun immunity actually saves your life.. Results in a net win for the barbarian, as the 'more efficent race to play'

Can someone tell me if ogre can merchant in freeport?

I do belive that overall, my time was spent making ganes MORE as the barbarian, than it was as the ogre, because 90% of the stuff you do, is moving around, merchanting, banking, etc while 10% of it is actaully face tanking. Meaning that 90% of your time is made easier as a barbarian than as a shaman.

In otherwords, if you are min maxing, trying to be the most efficent everquester, its more efficent IMO to make 90% of your time more efficent than to choose to make 10% of it.

But thats MY opinion, and I love both of my characters.

And I am pretty hard core, and still dont see myself getting an AoN on blue or red in any forseeable future.

maybe well have an event and ill get a guise tho please for the love of god. Id prob go with my ogre, in that case.. altho, having faction on good cities, AND bad cities, is pretty min max too... so shit, i dont know!

EQ.. there is no Right choice, there are a series of bad choices, that start with you logging in.

:(

Tl;Dr Ogers have larger penises on average.

[Orruar]

`This begs to question why you haven't rooted, or had your pet tank. `

because your tanking a lvl 50+ summoning mob.....soloing high lvl named mobs is wot 60 shms do. (post torpor)

...troll is my answer.....until velious, then id say ogre or iksar.

Why not kite until slowed?

Edit: And before you respond with something retarded, remember that summoning mobs don't summon until they're at 96% health. So don't damage the mob before you slow it. Not a terribly difficult strat.

[iruinedyourday]

JBB is lazymode option.

Once you get 60/Torpor, you can DPS better by spending time doing DoTs and canning back the mana I'm pretty sure.

IMO it's not worth rerolling over. Iksars look way cooler too.

Iksar can wear this, far superior that JBB

http://wiki.project1999.com/images/Robe_of_the_azure_sky.png

its better than this too: http://wiki.project1999.com/Chestplate_of_Vindication

http://wiki.project1999.com/images/Item_624.png

arguably.

It certanly looks fucking boss as shit with the spear. and omg if you manage to get a guise?

surely we all can agree, the best shaman race combo is a dark elf with a robe of azzure sky. That cannot be argued, if it is then you are a bad person.

[Kelor]

Does Iksar get anything like JB breastplate clicky in Velious? something that wont stack with Bramblecoat.

[Daldaen]

Does Iksar get anything like JB breastplate clicky in Velious? something that wont stack with Bramblecoat.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Girdle_of_Living_Thorns

It's 1 tier above Bramblecoat and instacast...

Unfortunately that's a tank item that most guilds will put on a tank and it drops from Tunare so yeaaaaa.

PS - Can the Azure Robe picture be updated to include less RMT-Duping?

[iruinedyourday]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Girdle_of_Living_Thorns

It's 1 tier above Bramblecoat and instacast...

Unfortunately that's a tank item that most guilds will put on a tank and it drops from Tunare so yeaaaaa.

PS - Can the Azure Robe picture be updated to include less RMT-Duping?

That belt is fan fricken tastic for any class.

[Kelor]

Will Iksar take over Troll as best race for Velious then?

[Sajan]

-Size makes leveling a pain, you will get stuck in hallways on CR's and are less efficent cus you cant just RUN IN HELLA FAST and snipe a corpse or something the way a barb can, you gotta get in, shrink, etc.

If you can't take the couple of seconds to memorize, then cast Shrink then the Ogre or Troll is not for you :p

I do belive that overall, my time was spent making ganes MORE as the barbarian, than it was as the ogre, because 90% of the stuff you do, is moving around, merchanting, banking, etc while 10% of it is actaully face tanking. Meaning that 90% of your time is made easier as a barbarian than as a shaman.

In otherwords, if you are min maxing, trying to be the most efficent everquester, its more efficent IMO to make 90% of your time more efficent than to choose to make 10% of it.

I play Barbarian because of this quote right here, I hate fatty models, and I enjoy leveling up using the Barbarian Spiritist's Hammer and Jaundiced Bone Bracer. The time saved by having faction in most areas is pretty significant, especially if you're new to the server and you're trying to make as much money as possible while leveling up by visiting merchants and the bank frequently. If you have all day to play, this is less of an issue. However, if you play casually, say a couple of hours at a time here and there, the Barbarian would be a lot more time efficient.

It has been stated before, Shamans are extremely powerful so no matter what race you choose you really can't go wrong. Personally, I would take the regen as a racial over frontal stun immunity if I had to make a choice between the two.

[Sajan]

Will Iksar take over Troll as best race for Velious then?

Iksar takes over everyone for best race in Velious :cool:

[pink grapefruit]

Iksar already best shaman race because they look decent unlike the other three.

[Madbad]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188005

I think this thread will answer any questions one might have about shaman races.

[iruinedyourday]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188005

I think this thread will answer any questions one might have about shaman races.

Haha it should be law that first response should be a link to a thread that's first response is a link to a thread, that's first response is a link to a thread... Back and forth, forever.

[Madbad]

I'm inordinately proud of my stupid shaman race race thread, will shamelessly plug it until people recognize me for the genius I am.

[eisley]

surely we all can agree, the best shaman race combo is a dark elf with a robe of azzure sky. That cannot be argued, if it is then you are a bad person.

curious how many iksar shamans have a guise. do any have guise + robe?

[Erica]

I do belive that overall, my time was spent making ganes MORE as the barbarian, than it was as the ogre, because 90% of the stuff you do, is moving around, merchanting, banking, etc while 10% of it is actaully face tanking. Meaning that 90% of your time is made easier as a barbarian than as a shaman.

In otherwords, if you are min maxing, trying to be the most efficent everquester, its more efficent IMO to make 90% of your time more efficent than to choose to make 10% of it.

I am just the opposite. I spend about 90% of my time fighting merbs on my sham and 10% alchemy/banking etc. I mess around more on my bard and wizard. Frontal stun immunity is amazing imo, but of course any race can make a good shaman ;) If only bards could be ogres...I'd be invincible!

Tl;Dr Ogers have larger penises on average.
And/or Larger boobs on average too.

[Kelor]

How about bash? is that needed at all? also snare neck seems a bit overrated lasting only 12secs with 6 sec cast.

[iruinedyourday]

How about bash? is that needed at all? also snare neck seems a bit overrated lasting only 12secs with 6 sec cast.

I think in 120 levels, slam has not missed to interrupt a cast maybe 4 times lol

[Clark]

Ogre is the best.

Troll is second best.

[eisley]

Do be aware that JBB/iksar armor & faction penalty, and slam all become complete non-factors in Velious, which is not too far off.

Soloing hard things early in Kunark undeniably came down to tenacity, as well as having Puppet Strings and other game-changing rechargable clickies, not race. That's not to say some races don't have an advantage (or clear disadvantage, in the case of our kilted brethren circa Velious), but that it is not going to stop someone from being successful.

If you aren't familiar with Velious you may wanna look into it before choosing your race, if it's an important decision for you.

[Clark]

Ya I agree. Not having access to the JBB is huge. Had a 65 Iksar Shaman on live, and suffered bigtime by not having one. Not to mention makes 45-60 much smoother, and mana free solid dps against bosses solo.

[Nikkanu]

1-59 Troll
60 Ogre

You will spend far more time @ 60 then you will 1-59.

JBB allows for quick leveling from 45-60 and also allows you to solo difficult mobs that would be much harder without the mana free damage it provides.

[eisley]

You think JBB is still relevant at 60? I was under the impression that the prevailing opinion was that Torpor makes clicking JBB a poor use of time. Perhaps it's more important than I thought it was. It was never even an option for me so I don't have first hand experience.

[Nikkanu]

You think JBB is still relevant at 60? I was under the impression that the prevailing opinion was that Torpor makes clicking JBB a poor use of time. Perhaps it's more important than I thought it was. It was never even an option for me so I don't have first hand experience.

I use it all the time at 60, especially when soloing summoning mobs or mobs with high MR/PR/DR or greens that I don't want to waste mana killing. Soloing/duoing would be much different and less efficient without JBB for sure, especially against certain mobs.

[eisley]

I figured Torpor + Puppet Strings = the end of the road for JBB aside from fringe uses. Interesting to see a contrary opinion. I'm only just learning myself.

As an aside, another thing to consider when picking shaman race is which deity neck quests will be available to you. Everyone knows about troll snare, but Iksars (and trolls) can get the Cazic Thule necks which are extremely not bad.

[Nikkanu]

I figured Torpor + Puppet Strings = the end of the road for JBB aside from fringe uses. Interesting to see a contrary opinion. I'm only just learning myself.

As an aside, another thing to consider when picking shaman race is which deity neck quests will be available to you. Everyone knows about troll snare, but Iksars (and trolls) can get the Cazic Thule necks which are extremely not bad.

It's all situational, you're not going to be using charmed mobs very often (typically just for breaking multiple spawn rooms or burning down a named fast). Most of the time when fighting summoning mobs you debuff the mob, dot it, and then don't have much to other than canni to full mana and then spam JBB while your dots tick.

[Nikkanu]

For reference I have a 60 Ogre Shaman with full spell book (Torpor, Bane of Nife, Poxx of Bertoxx, Malo, etc) and Puppet Strings on my shaman and have done extensive soloing/duoing of camps like King Tranix / Warlord Skarlon in SolB, NG/Crypt/Hiero/Disco/Chef/Bar/King in Seb, HS south, etc etc.

[iruinedyourday]

I havent used a JBB really ever except to get me from 45-49, which took like a day.. but at 60 I could see the how it could just free up some cani/heal clicks.. just sit and tank and click and you could get away with less cani's.. making that 19th tranix (clark!) a little bit more ez mode, with it.

250 every 2 ticks is about the same as a dot, even better than POX, so I could see how its nice.

[eisley]

Curious to see how JBB will hold up in Velious with the introduction of some shaman melee oriented weapons, such as Rune Etched Icewurm Fang (http://wiki.project1999.com/Rune_Etched_Icewurm_Fang). Also interested to see how Puppet Strings play out in Velious... there's some nasty stuff people can charm. Even on live with regular charm it was pretty ridiculous, imagining it here with all the strings floating around... lol. Guess the level 51 limit is a bit prohibitive though.

[Saker]

I'm surprised about the lack of Barbs. I'd have guessed they would be the most popular race for a shaman.

just started a Barbarian shaman yesterday, that starting area does suck... but the bottom line should always be what you're going to have fun with.

[Orruar]

I use it all the time at 60, especially when soloing summoning mobs or mobs with high MR/PR/DR or greens that I don't want to waste mana killing. Soloing/duoing would be much different and less efficient without JBB for sure, especially against certain mobs.

What high PR/DR mobs are you talking about? I solo'ed extensively in Kunark and old world and never met one that I wanted to use JBB on. About the only use I found was killing low green cons, but that's not a terribly common situation and Iksar aren't really missing out at 60.

One problem with JBB compared to dots + canni is interrupts. You waste vastly more time on push interrupts spamming JBB than you do with canni + dots. JBB cast time (8s) is equal to the delay of a slowed mob, so a mob is guaranteed to get 1 round of attacks in per JBB click. Dots are 6s, meaning you can cast them in between mob melee rounds. Even a 30% interrupt rate (pretty reasonable in my experience) leads to JBB spam being 1/2 the dps of dots + canni.

[Nikkanu]

What high PR/DR mobs are you talking about? I solo'ed extensively in Kunark and old world and never met one that I wanted to use JBB on. About the only use I found was killing low green cons, but that's not a terribly common situation and Iksar aren't really missing out at 60.

One problem with JBB compared to dots + canni is interrupts. You waste vastly more time on push interrupts spamming JBB than you do with canni + dots. JBB cast time (8s) is equal to the delay of a slowed mob, so a mob is guaranteed to get 1 round of attacks in per JBB click. Dots are 6s, meaning you can cast them in between mob melee rounds. Even a 30% interrupt rate (pretty reasonable in my experience) leads to JBB spam being 1/2 the dps of dots + canni.

Warlord Skarlon is one example I can think of. He likes to resist Pox / Bane ALOT even when Malosini'ed and he hits hard so it's good to get him dead quick. Over dozens of kills I experimented with different strategies and found that Epic + JBB spam lead to quicker kills overall and left me with alot more mana at the end of the fight and ensured I had more mana for torpors and re-slows.

I'm not telling anyone not to dot or just sit there spamming JBB and nothing else on every mob. It's all situational. There are often times that you can get extra JBBs in while dots are ticking when you don't need to canni. There are also times that you get unexpected adds and don't have the mana to dot... slow + epic + JBB is a nice option to have in those situations.

At the end of the day will JBB make or break a Shaman? Hell no. In fact once you get 60 and torpor it's not really that big of a deal. Shaman is one of the most powerful classes in the game with or without JBB. But with that said it's also a great tool that's very handy to have and one worth considering when making your character.

[Orruar]

Ah yeah, I remember him resisting pox/bane a decent amount, but never had problems keeping it up on him (just had to recast a couple ticks early). He's in manastone land, so mana was never an issue.

[SamwiseRed]

best shaman race is obviously vah shir idiots

[curtischoy]

best shaman race is obviously vah shir idiots

Win

[Kelor]

Is slam a must have for shammy solo?

[eisley]

Slam is very nice for leveling, but it does NOT interrupt high level mobs. I think 50+ or 51+? This may only apply to Kunark+ as well. I don't know the exact details of how it works here, hopefully someone else can chime in.

It's good, but it falls off at the level 60 game.

[Clark]

You think JBB is still relevant at 60? I was under the impression that the prevailing opinion was that Torpor makes clicking JBB a poor use of time. Perhaps it's more important than I thought it was. It was never even an option for me so I don't have first hand experience.

You use JBB all the time if pro.

[Baler]

Ogre has Frontal Stun immunity and high str/stam on creation with okayish wisdom
Troll has regen and decent str/stam
Iksar has regen and the ac buff thingy
Barb has (Barbarian Spiritist`s Hammer) and can enter all the good / neutral cities

In velious shamans get:
level 30ish? Form of the Bear
all races brown bear.
Level 55 Form of the Great Bear:
Ogres into a Grizzly bear
Troll/Iksar into a Kodiak
Barbarians into a Polar Bear

IMO
I rolled a Barbarian myself. Ogres are big, ugly, stinky & dumb. Trolls are alright in my book but I enjoy the freedom to run into good/neutral cities. (may reroll a troll in the future for the fun of it) Last but who cares, Iksar.

Troll is probably the best race. Cannibalism dance will benefit just that little extra bit from the health regen. oh I guess you could go iksar, I guess. meh
Don't play Ogre. People who play ogre are the people you see in Walmart in their pajamas. (http://d28mt5n9lkji5m.cloudfront.net/i/XkKj0U6b8S.jpg)

[Rooj]

Discovered this recently when I was stranded in Qeynos while encumbered (too many plats!) on my Iksar SK: http://wiki.project1999.com/images/Map_sivax_Project1999Map_IksarGuideV1.jpeg

I assumed Iksar couldn't vendor or bank ANYWHERE. Lo and behold, I could vendor and bank in the Qeynos Catacombs. Banking in Freeport isn't a problem either if you have invis (which Shaman do get). Also any player no matter who you are can use the druid portal vendors (though some portals have druid NPCs nearby who WILL kill you), and anyone can use the gypsy vendors as well, which are found all over the world. Quite honestly, being KOS in most of the world really isn't that big of an issue.

[Jobitussin]

I know ikkies start out hated. Goddamn damn racism in Norrath but...I know some people who have done insane faction grinds for their epics and what not so wouldnt anyone be able to just build faction as an ikky or is there something stopping that from being doable? If it's do-able the only thing that i think should be the decision maker is if you are willing to grind factions for hours on useless mobs then go with an ikky. my next toon will be an iksar just not sure on class yet. if they can be warriors (havent checked and memory sucks) then im rolling mine as a warrior for sure XD just going to need a nice healer to help out with the faction grinding if its do-able lol

[Jimjam]

Use gems as a way to bank. High value, low weight. Reasonable buy/sellback ratio.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Don't play Ogre. People who play ogre are the people you see in Walmart in their pajamas. (http://d28mt5n9lkji5m.cloudfront.net/i/XkKj0U6b8S.jpg)

Maybe so, but have you ever tried to knock them over from the front? Go ahead. Try. You can't. Know why?

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/62106570.jpg

that's why. Ogre.

[Hakun]

Getting faction with an Iksar is doable. I play an Iksar shaman and I am non kos in both Firona Vie and Freeport (in most parts at least, including the bank area of course). Firona Vie takes time but if you chose your leveling spots carefully (goblins in WW -> goblins in LoIO -> pirates in FV) you should be non kos somewhere around lvl 35. Freeport is easier check out this guide http://mentalized.net/journal/2003/07/30/the-iksar-handbook-of-infiltration/ I don't remember the exact time but took me 1-2 weeks (rl time and I don't play super much) downside was that you do not get exp at the same time.

[Victorio]

Just do the Neriak wine quest and you can bank there fine

[Lojik]

How about bash? is that needed at all? also snare neck seems a bit overrated lasting only 12secs with 6 sec cast.

Cazic worshippers can get a neck with undead fear, 2sec cast time 18 sec duration

[waffel]

Did brandy quest on my Iksar. Got me up to amiable with merchants in FP and Qeynos. Pretty useful.

edit: guards still hate me, however.

[RevengeofGio]

Pick what you like? You are playing because of nostalgia... the best race stuff wasn't exactly classic. Many of the top guilds had mostly non ogre tanks.

[Baler]

Skill > Race
Pick what you want! Stop listening to what other people tell you is best. Best is very opinion based usually.

Just don't go ogre. They're fat, dumb, stinky & ugly. Listen to my opinion!

[serjordanmormont]

Thanks for all the input people. Decided to stick with my Iksar!

[Malrubius]

Frontal Stun Immunity is a sham. I play an Ogre SK and get spells interrupted all the time. From the front. I regret not having rolled a Troll SK instead - free innate fungi ftw.

Iksar'd be good too, but Trolls are funnier imo.

[Nikkanu]

Frontal Stun Immunity is a sham. I play an Ogre SK. Get interrupted all the time. From the front. I regret not having rolled a Troll SK instead - free innate fungi ftw.

Iksar'd be good too, but Trolls are funnier imo.

You not knowing how something works doesn't make it a "sham". You can still get bashed and interrupted or pushed and interrupted but that is not the same thing as being stunned. With that said Troll/Iksar regen is nice but once you get 60 and torpor it's a pretty moot point.

[Darkatar]

Here's a few samples:

________________________
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:12 2014] You begin casting Torpor.
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:12 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:14 2014] An ire ghast bashes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:14 2014] An ire ghast hits YOU for 54 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:16 2014] You resist the Disease Cloud spell!
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:18 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:18 2014] You fall into a state of torpor.
________________________
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:01 2014] You begin casting Torpor.
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:05 2014] A scorn banshee hits YOU for 100 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:06 2014] A scorn banshee bashes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:07 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:07 2014] You fall into a state of torpor.
________________________
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:38 2014] You begin casting Torpor.
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:41 2014] You have healed Ginfizzie for 300 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:41 2014] Cleric of Innoruuk bashes YOU for 46 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:44 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:44 2014] You fall into a state of torpor.
________________________
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:03 2014] You begin casting Malo.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:03 2014] King Tranix pet hits YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:04 2014] King Tranix pet bashes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:04 2014] You feel your lifeforce drain away. You have taken 27 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:04 2014] King Tranix hits YOU for 59 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:05 2014] King Tranix bashes YOU for 46 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:06 2014] King Tranix hits YOU for 124 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:06 2014] King Tranix hits YOU for 41 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:06 2014] King Tranix pet tries to hit YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:08 2014] Urrsa has healed you for 300 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:08 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
________________________
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:42 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Fire giant warrior bashes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Your Paralyzing Earth spell has worn off.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Fire giant warrior hits YOU for 74 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Fire giant warrior kicks YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Fire giant warrior hits YOU for 49 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:45 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
________________________
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:41 2015] You begin casting Torpor.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:41 2015] An ire ghast hits YOU for 100 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:41 2015] An ire ghast bashes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:42 2015] Cleric of Innoruuk hits YOU for 64 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] A spite golem pet bites YOU for 35 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] An ire ghast hits YOU for 128 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] Cleric of Innoruuk hits YOU for 103 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] Cleric of Innoruuk hits YOU for 72 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] Cleric of Innoruuk bashes YOU for 54 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:45 2015] An ire ghast hits YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:45 2015] A loathling lich slices YOU for 132 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:45 2015] You resist the Gravity Flux spell!
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:45 2015] A spite golem pet bites YOU for 29 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:47 2015] An ire ghast hits YOU for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:47 2015] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:47 2015] You fall into a state of torpor.
_______________________
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:10 2015] You begin casting Torpor.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:11 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:11 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 128 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:12 2015] Brigadier G`tav kicks YOU for 49 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:12 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 200 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:12 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:12 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:14 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 144 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:14 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 176 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:16 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 160 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:16 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:17 2015] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:17 2015] You fall into a state of torpor.
_______________________
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:08 2015] You begin casting Enstill.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:08 2015] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:08 2015] You can't use that command right now...
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] A shin ghoul knight bashes YOU for 7 points of damage.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] Your legs feel weak.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] A shin ghoul knight tries to hit YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] A greater ice bones bashes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] A greater ice bones bashes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:10 2015] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
_______________________

It's worth noting any of these regular melee attacks could have also been stuns (kicks too)

[loramin]

Normally when I see:
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:17 2015] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
it's because I made my channeling check, not because of FSI (I'm a Barbarian, so I have no FSI).

I've never played an Ogre though: does FSI give the same message?

[Darkatar]

Normally when I see:

it's because I made my channeling check, not because of FSI (I'm a Barbarian, so I have no FSI).

I've never played an Ogre though: does FSI give the same message?

The key difference is I can get that message after being bashed successfully, whereas others immediately drop their cast

[Daldaen]

The key difference is in none of those situations would a non-ogre have died.

They would've just recast or learned to cast just after melee rounds; A skill many ogres probably don't attain because they figure "herpderpfrontalstunimmunitymorefacerolling". Which is likely to lead to them getting push interrupted due to their being oblivious to melee rounds hitting them.

Whereas someone who doesn't have it will have become aware of how to avoid both push and stun interrupts by casting in between attacks.

In summary, ogres lead to laziness and in the long run likely get interrupted the same amount.

[Darkatar]

The key difference is in none of those situations would a non-ogre have died.

They would've just recast or learned to cast just after melee rounds

Whereas someone who doesn't have it will have become aware of how to avoid both push and stun interrupts by casting in between attacks.

In summary, ogres lead to laziness and in the long run likely get interrupted the same amount.

Right, because using a 9sec epic cast without taking a melee hit while tanking a summoning mob is completely feasible.

Also, there's no need to have stun immunity while being beat on by inc's because all mobs come preslowed

/eyeroll

Do you even shaman, bro?

[Omnifiend]

This thread again. Just go with the race you prefer, after all you are the one who has to stare at your character non stop. If min/max matters to you so much regen is there for the leveling, FSI is there for the elite soloing at 60 once you have JBB, Torpor, Epic. IE, about a year or so from now.

[Malrubius]

The key difference is I can get that message after being bashed successfully, whereas others immediately drop their cast
I think the key word above is *can*.

My experience with Ogres is that they usually get interrupted on a successful bash. Other races always get interrupted on a successful bash.

It all comes down to personal preference I suppose - I'd rather have the extra regen during the (usual) times of not being in Torpor.

I'll grant that my use of the word "sham" was a bit strong. FSI can be nice in some situations, but not the be-all-and-end-all that some make it out to be - you still get interrupted, just not quite as often as others.

[Orruar]

Right, because using a 9sec epic cast without taking a melee hit while tanking a summoning mob is completely feasible.

Also, there's no need to have stun immunity while being beat on by inc's because all mobs come preslowed

/eyeroll

Do you even shaman, bro?

Epic interrupt isn't going to kill you. The important spell to not have interrupted is torpor. This spell has a 6 second cast time. Melee rounds from a slowed mob come every 8 seconds. 6 < 8, which is math I'm sure even you could perform.

[Darkatar]

Epic interrupt isn't going to kill you. The important spell to not have interrupted is torpor. This spell has a 6 second cast time. Melee rounds from a slowed mob come every 8 seconds. 6 < 8, which is math I'm sure even you could perform.

It's amazing how every "What shaman race do you like best" thread turns into

"OMG OGRE NOSTUN IS USELESS ZOMGWAFFLES"

I prefer ogre. Other races have their perks, sure.

Side note, melee round timer and bash timer arent in sync, so, yet again, nostun has it's uses even against slow mobs, and yet again, getting those mobs slowed is much easier when you arent having your slows bashed out of you. Keeping your epic/dots rolling gets mobs dead faster, so you get more kills/given time, increasing your kill rate / chance of loot happening.

[Malrubius]

Yeah, what you prefer is the best pick. :)

I was disappointed with FSI, as I still got interrupted a lot. That was just my personal experience though - ymmv.

[Synthlol]

I play an Ogre SK and get spells interrupted all the time. From the front. I regret not having rolled a Troll SK instead - free innate fungi ftw.

You can still get interrupted by damage and push from the front, you just can't get stunned. Regardless, you are dead on wishing you'd chosen a troll for your SK. Shadowknights cannot solo the kinds of high risk, high value camps that shaman can, and FSI is much less important when you have support. They also lack the highly potent spells like Torpor and Turgur's which make stun immunity so valuable on a shaman.

The key difference is in none of those situations would a non-ogre have died.

They would've just recast or learned to cast just after melee rounds; A skill many ogres probably don't attain because they figure "herpderpfrontalstunimmunitymorefacerolling". Which is likely to lead to them getting push interrupted due to their being oblivious to melee rounds hitting them.

Whereas someone who doesn't have it will have become aware of how to avoid both push and stun interrupts by casting in between attacks.

In summary, ogres lead to laziness and in the long run likely get interrupted the same amount.

Nobody is arguing that FSI is required, just that it's better. Only fools struggle to understand this. Non-ogres can recast or wait until after the a melee round? This means you're waiting to cast whatever spell are trying to get off, which is exactly the disadvantage a bash stun imparts. How is willfully manifesting a problem that you're trying to avoid any sort of solution to the problem? If you wait til after a round of combat to cast because a bash might interrupt it and you get bashed that round, you still aren't casting until after the bash stun wears off. If you it didn't bash you, then you didn't need to wait. Torpor and Turgur's both have cast times longer than a mob melee round, so casting right after a round to avoid having to channel thru it just means you have to channel through the next round. Ogres are better because they don't get interrupted by bash stuns, and they don't have to make these futile concessions. The idea that ogres get sloppy and end up playing poorly due to their clear advantage is pure conjecture.

Side note, melee round timer and bash timer arent in sync, so, yet again, nostun has it's uses even against slow mobs, and yet again, getting those mobs slowed is much easier when you arent having your slows bashed out of you. Keeping your epic/dots rolling gets mobs dead faster, so you get more kills/given time, increasing your kill rate / chance of loot happening.

This is what not being a fool sounds like.

[citizen1080]

orc

[webrunner5]

I have a level 1 Troll alt that i use to get my spells for my Barb Shaman. Easy to do.

So not a problem to getting spells at all. :p