Offensive casts should not require pre LoS check

[Nirgon]

Stealing off another link in the shock of lightning thread

http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6346-Shock-of-Lightning-what-level-do-they-start-resisting-it&p=131975&viewfull=1#post131975


Most just try to gank your ass by casting around corners, or hiding in a closet.



Lots of people are fishing in the wrong places for buffs (classic fixes tbh) to casters atm... this is the one we need most

You should not need an LoS check for casting an offensive spell on players (but should on mobs) whether indoors or outdoors

This is accurate for the server's entire timeline (day 1 - last day of Velious aka eternity here)

Having to take a Tantor's to the face every time you want to start casting a nuke ain't classic :)

Grats all solo ganker casters if this goes in.. hope this is a quick/easy fix to make.. it can be further stretched basically to "no spells cast on a player by a player should require a los check" (bolts should not go through walls, obvi but you can start the cast this way should they come around the corner before it finishes)

Melees right now are infinite endurance machines that can shred and shred and shred too... with 0 buffs / res effects not really hurting them NEARLY as much as they should

[Syft-X]

Stealing off another link in the shock of lightning thread

http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6346-Shock-of-Lightning-what-level-do-they-start-resisting-it&p=131975&viewfull=1#post131975




Lots of people are fishing in the wrong places for buffs (classic fixes tbh) to casters atm... this is the one we need most

You should not need an LoS check for casting an offensive spell on players (but should on mobs) whether indoors or outdoors

This is accurate for the server's entire timeline (day 1 - last day of Velious aka eternity here)

Having to take a Tantor's to the face every time you want to start casting a nuke ain't classic :)

Grats all solo ganker casters if this goes in.. hope this is a quick/easy fix to make.. it can be further stretched basically to "no spells cast on a player by a player should require a los check" (bolts should not go through walls, obvi but you can start the cast this way should they come around the corner before it finishes)

Melees right now are infinite endurance machines that can shred and shred and shred too... with 0 buffs / res effects not really hurting them NEARLY as much as they should

Because this is true to classic and something I've already posted about, I will agree.

and I will expand further on this...

LOS worked at the beginning of the cast in classic not the end for most spells. So basically if you began the cast in range you couldn't LOS away from the spell.

The Only spell that required LOS for both beginning and end was Bolt.

This was nerfed for a brief period in Luclin and reverted back after they deemed it gave melees an unfair advantage in pvp.

Since what your saying is correct, I will not challenge you to provide proof to a well known classic mechanic as you do when it doesn't suit your "Agenda"

[Pikrib]

I remember this. One of my first kills on RZ I couldn't even see my target I think it was a /assist nuke and had to run around looking for the body so I could loot that sweet Damask robe.

I thought this LoS was only in outdoor zones for some reason. My memory is fuzzy though. I don't remember every little detail about 15 year old PvP mechanics like these two immersed fruitcakes.

[Nirgon]

Pvping in velks as a caster is going to be fucked up without it

[Syft-X]

I remember this. One of my first kills on RZ I couldn't even see my target I think it was a /assist nuke and had to run around looking for the body so I could loot that sweet Damask robe.

I thought this LoS was only in outdoor zones for some reason. My memory is fuzzy though. I don't remember every little detail about 15 year old PvP mechanics like these two immersed fruitcakes.

Nah it was everywhere, thats why people made such a big deal about manaburn Kirban used to nail people and they never even saw what killed them.

Here LOS and high melee dmg has destroyed casters viability in pvp, which is something I've said over and over again.

[Nirgon]

ya we need los removed for casters in dungeons

Z-axis also... it makes rains basically unusable in pvp unless you are on top of someone

Haynar mentioned z-axis was an ultra bitch to fix so I respect that... los may be much easier

[Pikrib]

Before you guys try to implement this find proof that you could do this in dungeons.

[Syft-X]

Before you guys try to implement this find proof that you could do this in dungeons.

I know for a fact you could because everyday Kirban killed someone in Velks with manaburn using this. Good luck finding proof tho. I'm sure I could if given enough time, but I don't think you realize how hard it is to track down evidence of anything in a 16 year old game that existed prior to cable modems and google.

[MEGANS LAW]

Because this is true to classic and something I've already posted about, I will agree.

and I will expand further on this...

LOS worked at the beginning of the cast in classic not the end for most spells. So basically if you began the cast in range you couldn't LOS away from the spell.

The Only spell that required LOS for both beginning and end was Bolt.

This was nerfed for a brief period in Luclin and reverted back after they deemed it gave melees an unfair advantage in pvp.

Since what your saying is correct, I will not challenge you to provide proof to a well known classic mechanic as you do when it doesn't suit your "Agenda"


I concur with Syft's assessment. Bolt line spells (I was a mage) was the only difference. Everything else was LOS at beginning of cast.

[Nirgon]

z-axis removal needs to be melee too before I forget

even now being at a levitate disadvantage as a melee is a bit too brutal

I wouldn't fix melee and casting in sep patches if poss, hopefully casting range/melee can fit together some how at once... beggers choosing up in here

[Pikrib]

You should not need an LoS check for casting an offensive spell on players (but should on mobs) whether indoors or outdoors

Nirgon saying that a caster doesn't need to see the target to start casting a spell.


LOS worked at the beginning of the cast in classic not the end for most spells. So basically if you began the cast in range you couldn't LOS away from the spell.


Syft saying that you need to see the target to cast a spell on someone in pvp.

I concur with Syft's assessment. Bolt line spells (I was a mage) was the only difference. Everything else was LOS at beginning of cast.

Gyno agreeing with Syft that you need to see the target to start a spell cast. Hell just froze over, and you guys are so bright that you agreed to disagree.

[Syft-X]

Nirgon saying that a caster doesn't need to see the target to start casting a spell.



Syft saying that you need to see the target to cast a spell on someone in pvp.



Gyno agreeing with Syft that you need to see the target to start a spell cast. Hell just froze over, and you guys are so bright that you agreed to disagree.

I think nirgon just explained it wrong or maybe he did mean that IDK. I know you definitely did need a LOS check at beginning of cast not the end.

It's really a common sense thing, in a game where you can't land any CC effects requiring LOS on beginning and end of cast would defeat a casters ability to Kite which is really their only defense against melees. It forces caster's into the perfect killing zone for melee's and allows a melee to perfectly joust dance in and out of LOS. You could literally be two feet from a melee in full view and fail a LOS check at the end of cast because he's standing on the corner of a hill.

[Nirgon]

You shouldn't need los at the beginning or the end or ever at all, water is the only thing that comes into play or collision for bolts

Fix: remove los check in pvp

[Pikrib]

thread title. Game Mechanics: Offensive casts should not require pre LoS check

So Gyno and Syft are callin you a liar. I do remember nuking someone through the floor HPK (outdoor zone) without ever seeing them. I don't remember being able to get a target and nuke someone through a wall in an indoor zone.

No proof Nirgon.

[Syft-X]

thread title.

So Gyno and Syft are callin you a liar. I do remember nuking someone through the floor HPK (outdoor zone) without ever seeing them. I don't remember being able to get a target and nuke someone through a wall in an indoor zone.

No proof Nirgon.

There were certain spots where walls weren't coded as walls, a lot of them actually which allowed you to /target someone and cast.

There was a time when you didn't need los at all just target but I don't remember when it was added at beginning of cast.

[Technique]

This horse has already been confirmed dead (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122324), just continue beating it unquestioningly until the vet comes along.
But its in client. Server side also checks. But client requires los to start casting. Dunno how hard that is to find and fix.

H
Also, it's funny that no one has yet asked for the removal of Null's custom rule that range is reduced if the target isn't in LoS at the end of cast.

[Nirgon]

No proof Nirgon.

Here come da prof mobile...

possible he was not in los when spell started....
http://facultas.50megs.com/AD/Baeandar01.jpg
http://s14.postimg.org/xe7gi5yw1/image.jpg




This one pretty blatant imo, no line of sight at all
http://facultas.50megs.com/AD/Hunsa01.jpg
http://s14.postimg.org/xe7gi5yw1/image.jpg

Felwithe tunnel area, guy is clearly nowhere near line of sight and more than a few nukes were cast
http://facultas.50megs.com/AD/Shoeii02.jpg
http://s14.postimg.org/pvj9cf17l/image.jpg

Spamming spells thru wall (bank kill), if bank kills aren't the #1 indicator of not requiring los to start, I dunno what is, this was extremely common place
http://facultas.50megs.com/AD/cascia01.jpg
http://s14.postimg.org/5pktanbvl/image.jpg


Half this damn image loads but shows he's hiding behind a pillar casting nukes
http://facultas.50megs.com/SOF/Wardaen04.jpg
http://s14.postimg.org/4d348reg1/image.jpg

Trading blows, both out of line of sight of each other
http://facultas.50megs.com/TB/Machaira01.jpg
http://s14.postimg.org/7xyzrzizl/image.jpg

If some of these don't load, I'll fix them when I get home

I'm 100% certain on this mechanic and with insane weapons/gear coming for Velious melee, its a pretty crucial / classic change

[Pikrib]

I would guess they don't show proof though. You would have to have two screenshots one when the spell was cast and one when it landed for proof.

[Nirgon]

people bank killed in gfay/neriak all the time without line of sight and luckily we have an ss of a felwithe bank kill

if you remember bank killing, there's your prof imo

the halfway cut off one of the druid nuking is damning evidence

[Pikrib]

Proof mobile must be broken down because in all of the pics the casters could have been in LoS when the cast started then moved to places you cant see in the images. U need better proof Nirgy so keep lookin for better pics. It will keep ya off the forums for abit.

IDK about the curtains or bookshelf maybe you didn't need a pre LoS check when casting through those because of what I witnessed and what Syft stated earlier.

Seperate issues though.

[Nirgon]

I know you don't want this change but this is proof

[Haynar]

LoS checks at beginning of cast are enforced by client too. Taking out the server side los checks wont change this issue.

H

[Pikrib]

LoS checks at beginning of cast are enforced by client too. Taking out the server side los checks wont change this issue.

H

Thanks H please move to resolved because I am right and Nirgy never posted proof.

:D

[Haynar]

I didn't say its beyond fixing. Enjoy your little timers that show on ur buffs. When winter comes, they will go.

H

[Haynar]

PS. I wont remove the LOs checks on begin casting without removing z checks on combat too.

H

[Pikrib]

Haynar did you play EQ PvP?

If you did do you remembered this no LoS check on initial cast?

[MEGANS LAW]

Pikrib, don't put words in my mouth u fuking maggot.

I'm saying that from what I recall, the shock series of mage spells needed a LOS check at the beginning of the spells, while the bolt series needed one at the beginning and end. My memory of a 15 year old elf simulator is obviously circumspect, as is everybody's. That's why such lengthy and verifiable evidence is required for changes.

But there's alot of caveats for what I said. Bolts were notorious for never landing due to elevation changes in terrain or even hitting objects such as trees. Not to mention how water operated on Live.

[Pikrib]

Pikrib, don't put words in my mouth u fuking maggot.

I'm saying that from what I recall, the shock series of mage spells needed a LOS check at the beginning of the spells, while the bolt series needed one at the beginning and end. My memory of a 15 year old elf simulator is obviously circumspect, as is everybody's. That's why such lengthy and verifiable evidence is required for changes.

But there's alot of caveats for what I said. Bolts were notorious for never landing due to elevation changes in terrain or even hitting objects such as trees. Not to mention how water operated on Live.

Hrm, I didn't think I put words into yur mouth. Nirgon is saying that spells didn't need a LoS check upon initial cast. You are saying that they did.

[MEGANS LAW]

Hrm, I didn't think I put words into yur mouth. Nirgon is saying that spells didn't need a LoS check upon initial cast. You are saying that they did.

I'm saying I recall them requiring a LOS check at the beginning of cast for the shock series. I've been wrong before especially since I was like 14 when I started playing EQ and knew shit about video games and was also high 75% of the time I played.

I'm siding with Syft on the argument but Nirgon has a powerful counterargument as well. Need more evidence and more knowledgeable peoples to contribute.

[Pikrib]

Obviously beneficial heal/buff spells were different and could go through walls. Which is 99% of what I cast.

Pells were flagged beneficial so they might not require LoS if cast in pvp either.

[Zalaerian]

They do not. You can pell thru the ground above seb orb w /assist for instance

[Syft-X]

Nirgon's actually right on this one, I could destroy this thread with a single post but I won't because it would be a lie and I'd be fighting for something unclassic just out of spite.

The truth is it did start with no LOS checks because you used to be able to /target someone from far and nuke away. But they flip flopped LOS back and forth a few times and I can't remember exactly when they did.

I think it became beginning of cast near Luclin/PoP but I can't be 100% certain.

It would be more balancing to casters to have no LOS vs Melee's though because Melee's here are mowing machines with infinite dmg potential.

Come velious Melee's/Hybrid are gonna shit on casters to an epic degree in both burst and steady dps. And everyone playing games right now on Bug reports is gonna flood these forums with tears.

PS. I wont remove the LOs checks on begin casting without removing z checks on combat too.

H

LOL Haynar I know why you would think "Oh I gotta give melee's something if I do this'

But this Server is already melee quest and Casters are absolute dogshit compared to melee's, you gotta do something to balance casters in velious or they will be obsolete in pvp.

[Nirgon]

he needs to remove it for melee too

try playing one and fighting someone levitated just a little bit above you, feels completely not classic sir

I'm pretty sure getting assists and focusing caster fire/dispels from out of line of sight while the melee do melee thangs will be enough

I didn't say its beyond fixing. Enjoy your little timers that show on ur buffs. When winter comes, they will go.

H

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/004300375/1532296835_Alan20thumbs20up_xlarge.jpeg

not sure what some of ya'all'z deal is tbh. the shit's classic.

[MEGANS LAW]

Nirgon's actually right on this one, I could destroy this thread with a single post but I won't because it would be a lie and I'd be fighting for something unclassic just out of spite.

The truth is it did start with no LOS checks because you used to be able to /target someone from far and nuke away. But they flip flopped LOS back and forth a few times and I can't remember exactly when they did.

I think it became beginning of cast near Luclin/PoP but I can't be 100% certain.

It would be more balancing to casters to have no LOS vs Melee's though because Melee's here are mowing machines with infinite dmg potential.

Come velious Melee's/Hybrid are gonna shit on casters to an epic degree in both burst and steady dps. And everyone playing games right now on Bug reports is gonna flood these forums with tears.



LOL Haynar I know why you would think "Oh I gotta give melee's something if I do this'

But this Server is already melee quest and Casters are absolute dogshit compared to melee's, you gotta do something to balance casters in velious or they will be obsolete in pvp.

To be honest, melees who were geared in Velious demolished casters in PVP. That's why there were alot of changes to casters in general in Luclin etc.

[Syft-X]

To be honest, melees who were geared in Velious demolished casters in PVP. That's why there were alot of changes to casters in general in Luclin etc.

I guess thats why there was zero melee's in the top 20 on Sullon and all casters in velious/luclin.

See to know how pvp works you actually have to pvp.

pvp disgusts me.

he needs to remove it for melee too

try playing one and fighting someone levitated just a little bit above you, feels completely not classic sir

I'm pretty sure getting assists and focusing caster fire/dispels from out of line of sight while the melee do melee thangs will be enough



http://images.sodahead.com/polls/004300375/1532296835_Alan20thumbs20up_xlarge.jpeg

not sure what some of ya'all'z deal is tbh. the shit's classic.

Yea i run into so many melee's without a lev cloak here.

[MEGANS LAW]

I guess thats why there was zero melee's in the top 20 on Sullon and all casters in velious/luclin.

See to know how pvp works you actually have to pvp.





Yea i run into so many melee's without a lev cloak here.

Sullon was also release at the end of Velious/beginning of Luclin. Wanna compare how naked melees vs top geared Velious melees?

Huge difference come on.

[Nirgon]

u and pikrib beat it or im flushin the truce gyno

[Syft-X]

Sullon was also release at the end of Velious/beginning of Luclin. Wanna compare how naked melees vs top geared Velious melees?

Huge difference come on.

Let me tell you it was so much better fighting full Vex thal geared Ruin/Vindictive in early Luclin.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=146#Items

Rocking the kinda ice that shit on your smurf hearted velious magelo wet dream gear.

[Nirgon]

u srs right now?

[Daefuin]

I certainly got my fair share of kills on people in banks while nuking from 3 states over.

This was nerfed at some point though. When?

[Mr.Specter]

Let's make it so Helenkeller <Empire> -- formerly "Handpartytowel" known MQ2 user and distributor with multiple banned accounts -- can /target anyone without los and then nuke though 5 walls.

It'll be like VZTZ all over again with a mage pet on you having never even seen the person! Now we throw in some nukes,...

Great idea!

[Nirgon]

sorry you dont like classic eq pvp

[Syft-X]

Let's make it so Helenkeller <Empire> -- formerly "Handpartytowel" known MQ2 user and distributor with multiple banned accounts -- can /target anyone without los and then nuke though 5 walls.

It'll be like VZTZ all over again with a mage pet on you having never even seen the person! Now we throw in some nukes,...

Great idea!

Your right I'd much rather be forced into a tight space with rogues who Backstab for 1-1.5k, but god forbide I get nuked for 500 every 4.5 secs

[Nirgon]

You realize that trying to cast a spell in a dungeon right now basically guarantees a tstaff swing to the face? You think that's good? I can deal with that now but 53 damage 2handers in Velious? Heh. Best of all, it isn't asking for a custom feature for balance, its a classic mechanic and it is needed sooner rather than later. Hopefully we can do all the z-axis stuff last, with the removal of LOS for casts sooner than later. Even still casters will certainly have it rough but will by no means be useless or even close with this fix.

If anyone is using mq2 they need to be banned, I do not care what guild they are in

A cheating outbreak that isn't squashed is the best way to create an empty server

[Haynar]

I need to get back to the revamp on pvp melee mitigation asap.

H

[Zalaerian]

I need to get back to the revamp on pvp melee mitigation asap.

H

You are a god damn saint

[Zalaerian]

Your right I'd much rather be forced into a tight space with rogues who Backstab for 1-1.5k, but god forbide I get nuked for 500 every 4.5 secs

This. Mage dmg is meh a best. Nukes are easily partialed, pet is easily proofed or CCd. If someone bitches about mages dmg on this server, they are an idiot

[Syft-X]

I need to get back to the revamp on pvp melee mitigation asap.

H

I'm just saying I played a lot of MMO's and I'd be really hard pressed to find an MMO where pure casters got shit on this hard by melee's. Definitely wasn't classic EQ.

[Pikrib]

I need to get back to the revamp on pvp melee mitigation asap.

H

Pras!

I think I speak for everyone here besides Nirgon when I ask that you work on the PvP aspects of R99 before you work on things like buff timers or other trivial classic changes.

[Technique]

I need to get back to the revamp on pvp melee mitigation asap.

HIt's not even the mitigation so much as it is the hit rate. A melee in Kunark gear has an ~83% hit chance vs. a 255 AGI caster (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1651746&postcount=13).

If I had to guess (and if p99's hit chance function resembles stock emu), then I'd say BaseHitChance is simply too high for PvP.

[Syft-X]

It's not even the mitigation so much as it is the hit rate. A melee in Kunark gear has an ~83% hit chance vs. a 255 AGI caster (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1651746&postcount=13).

If I had to guess (and if p99's hit chance function resembles stock emu), then I'd say BaseHitChance is simply too high for PvP.

Your right but that is mainly because the only factor in "Hits" is determined solely by weapon skill, Hits aren't currently rolling against the targets AC just their own weapon skill.

It's also max hit dmg. People are getting practically one shoted by rogues atm.

[Technique]

Your right but that is mainly because the only factor in "Hits" is determined solely by weapon skill, Hits aren't currently rolling against the targets AC just their own weapon skill.No.

Displayed AC is a combination of "avoidance" AC and "mitigation" AC.

Two factors compose avoidance AC: AGI and defense skill.

The hit chance calc takes into account the AGI and defense skill of the defender. The higher they are, the lower the chance the defender is hit.

Right, Agi and Defense have bearing on avoidance, not the raw AC stat in your character panel.

[Syft-X]

No.

Displayed AC is a combination of "avoidance" AC and "mitigation" AC.

Two factors compose avoidance AC: AGI and defense skill.

The hit chance calc takes into account the AGI and defense skill of the defender. The higher they are, the lower the chance the defender is hit.

Yea but that's still not modifying hit/miss rates

Defense currently is just adding AC, AGI Adds AC and avoidance(Dodge). AC currently is effecting mitigation for dmg but not hit/miss rates.

Hits are currently rolling solely off the melee's equipped skill in weapon. That's why your seeing an 83% vs such high agility, your only getting 17% for dodge and failed hit rolls. VS it being calculated by the Melee's chance to hit different AC opponents.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that's spot on.

[Nirgon]

Yeah I gotta agree that its the hit rate




As far as tweaking?

Should parse a full warlord warrior vs a full carmine wizard

Classic SSes show lots of low ball melee damage against the highest geared Velious tanks... but a surprising amount of high damage hits (esp backstabs) vs clerics in full kael with really good shields

Can't summon gear here or I'd be able to test

Pls gief gear summon power on beta for testing and comparing... hell give it to Technique instead of me, just need some player input



AGI... not sure if it really did anything in classic other than be a cap to meet lest u take an AC penalty

[Syft-X]

Yeah I gotta agree that its the hit rate




As far as tweaking?

Should parse a full warlord warrior vs a full carmine wizard

Classic SSes show lots of low ball melee damage against the highest geared Velious tanks... but a surprising amount of high damage hits (esp backstabs) vs clerics in full kael with really good shields

Can't summon gear here or I'd be able to test

Pls gief gear summon power on beta for testing and comparing... hell give it to Technique instead of me, just need some player input



AGI... not sure if it really did anything in classic other than be a cap to meet lest u take an AC penalty

Well you have to agree your guild currently relies on melee dmg and monk trains, you wouldn't disagree with anything that might cause pixel lose.

[1grumpydorf]

Not sure how much of the current live formula was in place back then, but it was posted by Dev Dzarn to the forums a few years back for the number crunchers.
Dev starts in about halfway down the post and shows a bunch of the formulas.

Here's the link.
https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/ac-vs-acv2.210028/

Okay, this is something I've been researching over the last few days to present.
What is your 'Real AC'?
Or, When 'Mitigation AC' meets 'Avoidance AC'

Hopefully this will shed some light on the arcane calculations used to get the number you see in your inventory window versus the number used for some mitigation and avoidance purposes.

I'll preface this by saying that this may generate more questions than I am able to answer in the near future, but this is as complete of an answer as I can offer at the moment.

So you want to know what your 'Real AC' is? I'll step you through the calculations and explain why the number you see in your inventory window is not representative of what NPCs look at when they're hitting you in melee combat. It is a strong possibility that sometime in the future the number you see in your inventory window will be accurately reflective of the number we're going to calculate here, but this will hopefully be helpful in the meantime....


Just posting as an fyi, not sure if any of it relates to classic

[Technique]

Classic SSes show lots of low ball melee damage against the highest geared Velious tanks... but a surprising amount of high damage hits (esp backstabs) vs clerics in full kael with really good shieldsThat's because EQ's mitigation mechanics affect only the probability distribution of damage, not its range of possible values.

This approach works fine when tanking a dumb NPC that does nothing but swing at the player repeatedly for several minutes until one or the other dies, but it's shit for PvP where people are jousting with backstabs and 53dmg two-handers.

[Syft-X]

Not sure how much of the current live formula was in place back then, but it was posted by Dev Dzarn to the forums a few years back for the number crunchers.
Dev starts in about halfway down the post and shows a bunch of the formulas.

Here's the link.
https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/index.php?threads/ac-vs-acv2.210028/

Okay, this is something I've been researching over the last few days to present.
What is your 'Real AC'?
Or, When 'Mitigation AC' meets 'Avoidance AC'

Hopefully this will shed some light on the arcane calculations used to get the number you see in your inventory window versus the number used for some mitigation and avoidance purposes.

I'll preface this by saying that this may generate more questions than I am able to answer in the near future, but this is as complete of an answer as I can offer at the moment.

So you want to know what your 'Real AC' is? I'll step you through the calculations and explain why the number you see in your inventory window is not representative of what NPCs look at when they're hitting you in melee combat. It is a strong possibility that sometime in the future the number you see in your inventory window will be accurately reflective of the number we're going to calculate here, but this will hopefully be helpful in the meantime....


Just posting as an fyi, not sure if any of it relates to classic

Although the numbers may not correlate to classic the ratio/modifiers of this formula are pretty close to other MMO's of this era.

The problem here is I don't think avoidance is being calculated in reference to hit/miss but rather dodge/parry rates.

I could be wrong but it seems like hit/miss rates are being calculated by a percentage roll vs weapon skill as a modifier without taking the opponents AC into consideration.

[Technique]

The problem here is I don't think avoidance is being calculated in reference to hit/miss but rather dodge/parry rates.

I could be wrong but it seems like hit/miss rates are being calculated by a percentage roll vs weapon skill as a modifier without taking the opponents AC into consideration.The guesses you're making are just way off the mark.

Chance to dodge/parry/block/riposte isn't affected by any factor other than the level of the skill.

And if you'd looked at the link I posted to some of the parses I did on the beta server last year, you should've noticed the big difference in hit chance (25%) when attacking the same warrior, naked and geared.

[Syft-X]

The guesses you're making are just way off the mark.

Chance to dodge/parry/block/riposte isn't affected by any factor other than the level of the skill.

And if you'd looked at the link I posted to some of the parses I did on the beta server last year, you should've noticed the big difference in hit chance (25%) when attacking the same warrior, naked and geared.

And that could be but is that because his dodge parry riposte is off with less stats? or because his Ac is lower

[Technique]

And that could be but is that because his dodge parry riposte is off with less stats? or because his Ac is lowerI conducted those parses with the character facing away to eliminate the chance of dodge/parry/riposte, so that's not even a factor.

[Syft-X]

I conducted those parses with the character facing away to eliminate the chance of dodge/parry/riposte, so that's not even a factor.

Sounds legit

[Wrench]

Before you guys try to implement this find proof that you could do this in dungeons.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164831 ?

[pgerman]

they never changed melee z axis range in kunark, or early velius

You will never find any proof of this

Casters floated above everyones heads , the only difference was that people couldnt change their frame rates to levitate and not sink quickly.


People like HPT, dont sink at all because of video settings/frame rate, few other factors.

[Lasher]

LOS casting changed with many patches during classic and velious so people can actually recall classic casting rules that differ based.

I remember spells requireing no LoS start or end, I remember spells only requring start LoS and also briefly spells requring start and end.

Also Dispell was considered beneficial spell for a very long time and could dispell through walls. Also remember dispelling people with mobs and getting aggro from the beneficial aspect of dispell

Also some zones were very buggy and walls didnt act like walls. High keep was notorious for this

[Syft-X]

LOS casting changed with many patches during classic and velious so people can actually recall classic casting rules that differ based.

I remember spells requireing no LoS start or end, I remember spells only requring start LoS and also briefly spells requring start and end.

Also Dispell was considered beneficial spell for a very long time and could dispell through walls. Also remember dispelling people with mobs and getting aggro from the beneficial aspect of dispell

Also some zones were very buggy and walls didnt act like walls. High keep was notorious for this

Your absolutely correct, the only thing I don't remember in classic...is spells requiring beginning and end LOS like they do here.

[Smedy]

they never changed melee z axis range in kunark, or early velius

You will never find any proof of this

Casters floated above everyones heads , the only difference was that people couldnt change their frame rates to levitate and not sink quickly.


People like HPT, dont sink at all because of video settings/frame rate, few other factors.

yep, played mage on live and i survived because of levitate, no melees were chasing me from down below as far as i was concerned then again good luck doing it with classic hitbox and no target ring :P

[Nirgon]

I'm 100% on being able to nuke people on ledges above me in Velks without getting boned by LoS for the entirety of Velious

[Slathar]

I'm 100% on being able to nuke people on ledges above me in Velks without getting boned by LoS for the entirety of Velious

i can verify this. played wizard from kunark through AA period and would manaburb players on the regular here w/ no LOS

[Lasher]

I'm 100% on being able to nuke people on ledges above me in Velks without getting boned by LoS for the entirety of Velious

While I do recall being nuked all over Velk, I have a memory of needing initial LoS when nuking people in ToV in HoT but I was like 14 and my mind was prepubescent

[Pikrib]

Maybe the ice ramps don't block LoS...

[Luniz]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124100

Alecta Alecta is offline
Developer
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Red '99
Posts: 274
Default R99 - 'Improving' Spell Casting
As you can see from the patch notes, we've been revisiting some of the spell mechanics on R99.

We would prefer to keep these as classic as possible. Mechanics like LOS checks, channeling, water dancing, cast times, spell effect behaviors, resists etc. should be as classic / appropriate to the era as possible.

I know Null tried to balance things but I feel like should do that using the 'unknowns' (ie, resist formulas) rather than changing the 'knowns'.

Also, we're looking for community feedback, but particularly quality feedback. Saying "resists are broken" is less helpful than "ice comet always lands for full" is less helpful than saying "Ice comet landed for full in 8/10 casts at 200 CR when cast by an even con. Should be partialing for half that." We won't act on every bit of input, but the more the better.

We understand that a lot of this is going to lack hard evidence from 'live', but hopefully we can get to a place where most people are happy.

Alecta Alecta is offline
Developer
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Red '99
Posts: 274
Default
Non-Classic Mechanics

You've had a chance to play with these, we want some feedback on whether or not they should stay in.

Soft LOS Check

Null created a system where if you had LOS on a player at the beginning of the detrimental spell and your target went out of LOS at the end of the cast, your spell wouldn't fail if the player was still within 70% of the spells range.

Personally, I feel like this is not a good thing. It reduces the importance of positioning and timing in dungeon pvp and it makes new players cry hax when they get nuked through walls. Thoughts?

Root and Snare Duration

Null also made it so root and snare do not have a chance to break on ticks. Instead if they land, they always land for the full duration. They only break on spell damage and melee damage. Melee damage has a (damage/5)% chance to break, so a 500 hp blow always breaks it, a 250 hp blow will have a 50% chance to break it, etc.

Personally, I think that by not giving it a chance to break on ticks, it further trivializes resists. And while I understand the logic behind the melee damage, that's not exactly classic.

Also, the Titanium Client has a 24 second snare cap for PvP that we are currently overriding. Any opinions on the 24 second cap with tic checks for snare?

[Syft-X]

I prefer Null's was more classic

[vouss]

I don't know do you think Nirgon could post a few more SS's of people running around corners before they die as proof that LoS is never needed? Not convinced yet.