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View Full Version : Sir Lucan D'Lere - FTE or Camp?


Bohab
06-05-2015, 11:39 AM
Moregan: It spawns at a static location, it is definitely campable.

Eunomia: it is a campable spawn. It is static. The person camping may not log/zone/die but it is the same type of camp as any other static spawn

Does this mean that Verina Tomb & Vessel Drozlin are also camps and not FTE? Since when? Variance makes the difference?

So we can afk camp Lucan till the final minute? Awesome!

I am confused...

fiveeauxfour
06-05-2015, 11:40 AM
I like how you slipped that last bit in there ;)

SamwiseRed
06-05-2015, 11:44 AM
problem with blue is soulfire is usable by everyone. glad red doesnt have such cheap trickery ezmode hacks exploits.

Daldaen
06-05-2015, 11:50 AM
Moregan: It spawns at a static location, it is definitely campable.

Eunomia: it is a campable spawn. It is static. The person camping may not log/zone/die but it is the same type of camp as any other static spawn

Does this mean that Verina Tomb & Vessel Drozlin are also camps and not FTE? Since when? Variance makes the difference?

So we can afk camp Lucan till the final minute? Awesome!

I am confused...

I think variance is the difference here.

You can AFK camp King Tranix and Warlord Skarlon for example.

And Vessel roams, he isn't a static spawn.

Tankdan
06-05-2015, 11:53 AM
Sir Lucan has been very much FTE regardless of the rule, I've been sitting there and have had it contested dozens of times.

Samoht
06-05-2015, 11:54 AM
You also don't have infinite time to engage targets you're camping. If Verina or Lucan spawn, and you do not immediately tag them, then it becomes FTE even if you were the one at the camp. I would also recommend against stalling on them.

Swish
06-05-2015, 12:07 PM
problem with blue is soulfire is usable by everyone. glad red doesnt have such cheap trickery ezmode hacks exploits.

Sampten
06-05-2015, 12:08 PM
You also don't have infinite time to engage targets you're camping. If Verina or Lucan spawn, and you do not immediately tag them, then it becomes FTE even if you were the one at the camp. I would also recommend against stalling on them.

Immediately tag = FTE.

If you are there 'camping' him and he spawns and you engage within a reasonable amount of time (say a few minutes) then it'd be a camp. However, there is generally a group of people that show up 1-2 minutes before he spawns and will try to FTE "steal" him from the person that's sat there for quite a while.

I do feel bad for Paladins that are actually trying to do the quest as part of their epic. They are basically blocked by those using Soulfire as an exploit for clicky CHs.

I think the rule of thumb, which isn't the case, is don't be a D-bag. If there's a Pally there "camping" him as part of doing his/her epic, then the considerate thing to do would be to yield the spawn to that person. Heck, if somebody's been sitting there waiting on the spawn, the polite thing would be to yield it to them.

Sadly, that's not the attitude by a large majority of people here on blue.

Samoht
06-05-2015, 12:15 PM
Immediately tag = FTE.

Maybe you're misunderstanding things. If the person camping them does not tag them pretty much as soon as they spawn, then it becomes FTE. You cannot let them stay up uncontested. That's not how *any* camp works, much less Lucan.

However, there is generally a group of people that show up 1-2 minutes before he spawns and will try to FTE "steal" him from the person that's sat there for quite a while.

If this happens, I would recommend petitioning with proof of it happening.

Bohab
06-05-2015, 12:19 PM
So how about Phinny? Typically you can wait there with your posse and then once it gets closer to spawn time other guilds start showing up... On more than one occasion I've seen players start the seahorse pull immediately right when he spawned even though they were not setup there first claiming it's an FTE race. Static spawn? So it's camp then?

Nightbear
06-05-2015, 12:22 PM
Had a few members get week bans for FTE'ing Lucan. GMs have made their stance on Lucan pretty clear.

Also today Moregan intervened AG FTE'ing Lucan from a Paladin who was camping him for his epic. Guessing what this post is about.

Rajahten
06-05-2015, 12:28 PM
Yes that's what this post is about, and I am that Paladin.

I was camping Lucan for several hours because a nice member of Indig gave me his previous ToD from 2-3 kills ago. So I had a vague mindframe,

He popped maybe 30 minutes after I thought he would, and I had already prematurely contacted a GM in fear of Lucan being sniped. I had a 60 Monk with me, and a 60 Warlock and 60 Shaman close by who offered to help.

Literally within a second of Lucan spawning, he was sniped. I asked politely in tells for him to show a little bit of respect because I was a paladin working on epic, and he was a 60 war trying to get another clicky. I asked him 4-5 times in tells, he ignored. I asked his clr healer buddy, he told me he couldn't help me. So, the GM who sat with me intervened. Told the war that Lucan is indeed a camp. The war argued with the GM, and another GM came. ETC ETC. In the end, I got the testament.

My point is - I didn't even have a CHANCE to pull, nor did my monk friend. The war just popped out of invis and was gone with Lucan.

Thanks to Indig for helping a lowbie Paladin out. Thanks to the GMs for standing up on the matter. I've spent weeks and weeks trying to get this thing.

Sampten
06-05-2015, 12:28 PM
Maybe you're misunderstanding things. If the person camping them does not tag them pretty much as soon as they spawn, then it becomes FTE. You cannot let them stay up uncontested. That's not how *any* camp works, much less Lucan.



If this happens, I would recommend petitioning with proof of it happening.

Actually, what you are saying is that if it isn't snap pulled then you "lose".

If player A, who has been sitting there for 4 hours because he doesn't know when Lucan was last killed were go grab a drink of water from his kitchen and Lucan spawns and 10 seconds later Player A hasn't engaged, is that too long of a "snooze"?

I think if somebody's "camping" him he/she or they should have a reasonable amount of time to engage.

Is 10 seconds reasonable? No.

A few minutes (3-5) is reasonable.

Nightbear
06-05-2015, 12:30 PM
A few minutes (3-5) is reasonable.

Aye, I think i remember reading time to engage for Camps is 5 mins, not sure if I can find the post though.

Moregan
06-05-2015, 12:30 PM
don't be a D-bag

This. ^

EverQuest is a MMORPG. When you log into EverQuest, and you see all those other people running around with blue and purple (and sometimes red) names over their heads, please realize that those are real people who are here to play and enjoy the game, just like you.

If you show up to camp something, and there is another player already there, try talking to them like the real person that they are! Communicating your intentions (as well as learning what their intentions are) can go a long way to avoid a conflict.

Silently standing in a corner with invis on waiting for the exact moment a mob pops to steal it is not only against the rules, it is a surefire recipe for conflict. Please try to be communicative with other players about camps like this. Talking it out can spare a lot of unnecessary trouble.

We are doing our best to make Project 1999 a fun and hospitable place to enjoy classic EQ. Every time you are able to work something out directly with another player, it helps the staff tremendously.

Thank you for your cooperation!

Thanks
-Moregan

sulpher01
06-05-2015, 12:31 PM
Could we get some consistency with verina tomb and such then?

Samoht
06-05-2015, 12:33 PM
Actually, what you are saying is that if it isn't snap pulled then you "lose".

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. You're intentionally misinterpreting it for some reason, whether you disagree with the rules or you're playing devil's advocate, or whatever. I don't care. Quit being glib.

If player A, who has been sitting there for 4 hours because he doesn't know when Lucan was last killed were go grab a drink of water from his kitchen and Lucan spawns and 10 seconds later Player A hasn't engaged, is that too long of a "snooze"?

You're not allowed to AFK camp, so yes. You have to be at keyboard when it spawns. It would suck if what you describe in your scenario happens, but that's unfortunate luck. Now you know the time of death, though, and you can better plan for the next kill.

I think if somebody's "camping" him he/she or they should have a reasonable amount of time to engage.

Is 10 seconds reasonable? No.

A few minutes (3-5) is reasonable.

That's definitely too long. You would be inconveniencing a lot of people.

Bohab
06-05-2015, 12:34 PM
Point of the thread is to establish consistency. There are several camps in the game that are 'static' but are considered FTE or at least that is the consensus of the community. Then things suddenly change... It's ridiculous.

Samoht
06-05-2015, 12:35 PM
Literally within a second of Lucan spawning, he was sniped. I asked politely in tells for him to show a little bit of respect because I was a paladin working on epic, and he was a 60 war trying to get another clicky. I asked him 4-5 times in tells, he ignored. I asked his clr healer buddy, he told me he couldn't help me.

Also, name and shame. What guild were they in?

Rajahten
06-05-2015, 12:40 PM
Although I dislike what they did, I don't want to stoop to their level and name them. I am happy with the results and I am not going to fuel anything :)

Rajahten
06-05-2015, 12:40 PM
Also, name and shame. What guild were they in?

Although I dislike what they did, I don't want to stoop to their level and name them. I am happy with the results and I am not going to fuel anything

Bohab
06-05-2015, 12:42 PM
Also, name and shame. What guild were they in?

I got FTE on my warrior Keary in AG. I was under the impression Lucan was an FTE mob due to my many past experiences. I have no shame in what I did because I thought I was within the rules. I was not apparently and the rule needs to be consistent across the board (they are not). I will just AFK camp him when needed moving forward and toss out petitions when somebody attacks him before me...

Only reason I need to kill Lucan is to compete against guilds such as the Paladin's that was camping Lucan. I didn't ask for the raid environment to be so cutthroat that I need to try and FTE Lucan from a Paladin in a competing guild but it is what it is. Don't take it personal, it was strictly business.

Rajahten
06-05-2015, 12:47 PM
I got FTE on my warrior Keary in AG. I was under the impression Lucan was an FTE mob due to my many past experiences. I have no shame in what I did because I thought I was within the rules. I was not apparently and the rule needs to be consistent across the board (they are not). I will just AFK camp him when needed moving forward and toss out petitions when somebody attacks him before me...

Only reason I need to kill Lucan is to compete against guilds such as the Paladin's that was camping Lucan. I didn't ask for the raid environment to be so cutthroat that I need to try and FTE Lucan from a Paladin in a competing guild but it is what it is. Don't take it personal, it was strictly business.

I wasn't afk, just for the record. I was there every second of the time I spent camping him and was prepared to engage within several minutes.

Swish
06-05-2015, 12:51 PM
If he's campable you'll be buying MQs from now on.

Another win for EC fat cats.

Bohab
06-05-2015, 12:52 PM
Not here to argue or flame anyone. The point of the post was to establish consistency. Myself and many others have experiences with Lucan where it was much like camping (tracking?) VT. When it spawns you engage regardless of who has been there longer. Phinny is a static spawn on a static timer and yet there is no regard for who has been 'camping' him longer and as far as I know it is not considered a camp. There is no consistency and that is what makes the conflict. Most of us want to work within the rules but please make them consistent.

Nightbear
06-05-2015, 01:03 PM
Also, name and shame. What guild were they in?


Also today Moregan intervened AG FTE'ing Lucan from a Paladin who was camping him for his epic. Guessing what this post is about.

And I agree, consistency would be nice. Indig was unaware of this rule about a month prior and we had two members slapped with a week ban out of no where.

Samoht
06-05-2015, 01:05 PM
Not here to argue or flame anyone. The point of the post was to establish consistency. Myself and many others have experiences with Lucan where it was much like camping (tracking?) VT. When it spawns you engage regardless of who has been there longer. Phinny is a static spawn on a static timer and yet there is no regard for who has been 'camping' him longer and as far as I know it is not considered a camp. There is no consistency and that is what makes the conflict. Most of us want to work within the rules but please make them consistent.

I'd like for you to explain your VT delusion further. You act as if you've camped it before, but you seem to be either confused by the camping rules or you're outright lying about it being a problem.

Most people track VT with a level 1 DE cleric alt. They change their Enchanters bind point to Neriak Third Gate, and they have friends log alt healers/tanks there with them. This allows them to casually track her during the hours they're not actively raiding. When she spawns, they switch characters and wait for their force to show up since Enchanters are squishy and might have a hard time soloing her (twice so for Vessel).

That makes the VT encounter normally come down to first in force, not first to engage. If you engage without your force with no intent on killing (kiting), that's a stall and also subject to discipline.

If somebody had a force present in zone at the spawn ready to pull when VT spawns, I would say that they'll get the kill. If two forces were present, I would say that that's a lot of wasted time and the decision would come down to whoever wasn't AFK when it spawned.

So is VT campable? Sure. Are you going to make your friends and guild mates waste 5 days of their lives in Neriak Third Gate waiting for her to spawn? Jesus Christ no.

Halius
06-05-2015, 01:06 PM
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. You're intentionally misinterpreting it for some reason, whether you disagree with the rules or you're playing devil's advocate, or whatever. I don't care. Quit being glib.



You're not allowed to AFK camp, so yes. You have to be at keyboard when it spawns. It would suck if what you describe in your scenario happens, but that's unfortunate luck. Now you know the time of death, though, and you can better plan for the next kill.



That's definitely too long. You would be inconveniencing a lot of people.

Gonna have to kindly disagree with you on this one Samoht. You don't need to engage a mob that you are camping (unless of course the mob is FTE) within seconds of it spawning. I did some digging cause I knew there was a post about this some time back. But you are allowed a couple minutes of leeway before someone can come in and steal your camp. In general, just because a PH spawns you aren't allowed to instantly take it just because the person camping the mob didn't hit it immediately.

From Derubael:

1) In this situation, you should have still held the camp, depending on how long the placeholder was up. Essentially, the person who took your camp needs to message you and let you know he is interested in contesting the camp, at which point you would need to then stay at or near the spawn in order to hold it. Until that happens you are free to roam the zone as long as you keep the placeholders clear.

That being said, if the placeholder was up for an inordinate amount of time, then he would be justified in taking the camp. Keep in mind there is no "camp timer" to determine how long a PH can be up before a camp can be taken. A handful of minutes should be the max (you need to be actively keeping placeholders clear if you're going to claim a camp... set an egg timer or something to remind you when the spawn is coming). We want to be as flexible as possible with the camp-holders themselves, while at the same time being reasonable about what constitutes a "held" spawn. You can't have a placeholder up for 10 minutes yet claim to be holding the camp.

For people wishing to move into a camp, be aware of whether or not the placeholders are up. If you move into a camp and see the placeholders down, it's up to you to ask around and find out who's camping it if you don't see them right away. When the PH spawns it's bad form to immediately engage, and potentially a violation of the camp rules. Let it stay up for a handful of minutes to see if anyone comes and engages. If they don't, the camp would be yours as per the above paragraph. If they do, you need to communicate to them that you are interested in the camp. If you do not clearly communicate you wish to contest the camp, you can't move in if the person walks away after killing the placeholder.

Essentially, the camp rules boils down to this:

A camp is yours regardless of where you are in the zone as long as you keep the placeholders clear, until someone wishes to contest the camp, at which point you must stay at or very near the spawn from that point forward.

As always, if you are camping two spawns and someone wises to take one, you must pick one and give up the other(s). In cases where you are holding more than two spawns and another party wishes to contest two or more spawns, you may pick the one you want most and then split the remaining camps in the best way possible (IE, for multiple spawns - say, a 4 spawn of goblins, each party would take 2. For single spawns, alternate kills - you take one, opposing party takes one, and so on).

2) In this situation you were indeed in the wrong. Once you leave a zone, die, or log out of the camp (/quit) you have forfeited the camp automatically. You must then work to re-claim your camp as per the camp rules outlined in 1).

This may seem slightly complicated, but it's infinitely better than the system we had before. The fact that I can reduce it to 1 sentence is a testament to it's simplicity. It's also incredibly effective and promotes a much more common sense approach to camps and camp disputes in general. Also keep in mind that the "player mediated dispute" feature that is present in the raid scene is also present in every player-level dispute imaginable. We greatly encourage players to work out disputes on their own if possible before /petitioning for a CSR. A player chosen solution is going to be much better than any a CSR will hand down, simply on the merit that it was player mediated.

Hope this clears some things up. Feel free to quote this post/point people to this post in the future to clarify the camp rules.

So essentially this means that if BOTH GMs consider Lucan a camp, then he had a couple of minutes to engage after he spawned.

kaev
06-05-2015, 01:13 PM
If players on live had been so relentlessly obsessed with soulfire as every random toon's raid clicky the way we are here it would've been fixed to be clickable by paladin only long before it was. There're more tin-plated toolbags per square inch on this server than even the worst of the original live communities dreamed of.

Samoht
06-05-2015, 01:14 PM
Gonna have to kindly disagree with you on this one Samoht. You don't need to engage a mob that you are camping (unless of course the mob is FTE) withing seconds of it spawning. I did some digging cause I knew there was a post about this some time back. But you are allowed a couple minutes of leeway before someone can come in and steal your camp. In general, just because a PH spawns you aren't allowed to instantly take it just because the person camping the mob didn't hit it immediately.

You didn't actually disagree with anything I said. I gave an abstract time frame. You're trying to compare it to an absolute time frame. We might disagree on how to qualify an immediate tag, but that's fine. I think that the rule of thumb would be as soon as possible to prevent douchebaggery like this. If you have to petition, you let it sit too long.

Bohab
06-05-2015, 01:17 PM
So is VT campable? Sure..

Look I understand how the encounter typically goes down. But the fact is you can sit in front a spawned VT or Lucan waiting for help to kill it. In the case of Lucan it was established a camp meaning whom ever has been waiting the longest gets the kill. In the case of VT it's FTE. Two cases where you have players en route to help you but one is FTE and one is a Camp. If variance makes all the difference then so be it... but there are other static spawns in the game that are still in the grey area of whether they are FTE or a Camp. That's all I'm looking to address.

fiveeauxfour
06-05-2015, 01:19 PM
Just make every NPC on a fte basis and make every NPC give a zonewide engage shout. Solved.

Samoht
06-05-2015, 01:22 PM
Look I understand how the encounter typically goes down. But the fact is you can sit in front a spawned VT or Lucan waiting for help to kill it. In the case of Lucan it was established a camp meaning whom ever has been waiting the longest gets the kill. In the case of VT it's FTE. Two cases where you have players en route to help you but one is FTE and one is a Camp. If variance makes all the difference then so be it... but there are other static spawns in the game that are still in the grey area of whether they are FTE or a Camp. That's all I'm looking to address.

Quit trying to confuse things. On this Lucan, you tried to cut in-front of someone who was already there and had a force ready to down him. Please show me any instance of that happening with VT. Ever.

If the mob is up, and no one is engaging it, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But that's not the way this has played out. At all.

Daldaen
06-05-2015, 01:22 PM
If players on live had been so relentlessly obsessed with soulfire as every random toon's raid clicky the way we are here it would've been fixed to be clickable by paladin only long before it was. There're more tin-plated toolbags per square inch on this server than even the worst of the original live communities dreamed of.

The only reason SoulFires are obsessed over is because of FTEing 16 Hour Variance mobs and CotH-a-Trakanon.

If there were no variance, and guilds knew a very small window of when a mob would spawn, they wouldn't FTE a mob and then find out only 10 people logged on to their batphone at 3 AM. They would have a viable force since they knew when the raid was happening and wouldn't need to spam SoulFires to stay alive.

Also Trakanon being a CotH race, engaging with 8-10 people, and just inching along living off clickies, is another point of SoulFire use.

Remove Variance and remove CotHing from Trakanon (though... Trakanon without CotH would be hilariously retarded on this server). They would lose most of their Classic/Kunark use on raids. Reapers would suffice to fill in gaps in healing.

In Verrious though, I'm not sure you'll be able to prevent that.

Lady Julae
06-05-2015, 01:24 PM
problem with blue is soulfire is usable by everyone. glad red doesnt have such cheap trickery ezmode hacks exploits.

Because Red already has EZ mode XP, lol.

Bohab
06-05-2015, 01:30 PM
Quit trying to confuse things. On this Lucan, you tried to cut in-front of someone who was already there and had a force ready to down him. Please show me any instance of that happening with VT. Ever.

If the mob is up, and no one is engaging it, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But that's not the way this has played out. At all.

Sir I had a force ready to down him as well. You're missing some key facts in the situation you seem to know so much about. You seem to strive for conflict so this is the final time I will address one of your posts. This isn't about me or him or even the exact situation that happened this morning. It's about making sure we're all on the same page here. We're aware that Lucan is a camp. End of story, that's how the GMs decided it. Ok great, it is a camp. But why is this similar spawn FTE and not a camp? How can we tell the difference between camp and FTE without creating a conflict. I didn't see it as 'cutting' anyone because myself and my guild mates were under the impression it was a case of FTE. If we had known it was a camp then I would have never had engaged Lucan with other players in camp.

Samoht
06-05-2015, 01:33 PM
Sir I had a force ready to down him as well. You're missing some key facts in the situation you seem to know so much about.

No, you're missing a key fact. He was there first.

But why is this similar spawn FTE and not a camp?

What similar spawn are you describing here?

Ezalor
06-05-2015, 01:44 PM
problem with blue is soulfire is usable by everyone. glad red doesnt have such cheap trickery ezmode hacks exploits.

dis true

Nuggie
06-05-2015, 02:40 PM
We're months away from soulfire being put to paladin only. should clear all this right up.

Also, Blue > Red

Daldaen
06-05-2015, 02:43 PM
We're months away from soulfire being put to paladin only. should clear all this right up.

Also, Blue > Red

By Months you mean the first Month of Luclin expansion? Cause that's when SoulFire became paladin only.

If we skipped Velious and jumped straight into Luclin that would be superb $$$.

Samoht
06-05-2015, 02:49 PM
We can only hope that they decide to go ahead and fix it here.

curtischoy
06-05-2015, 03:59 PM
I can't believe no one from red has said it yet but...

FailedLogicReasonToJoinRed_05428929=If you were on red you could just kill the person and take Lucan!

tristantio
06-05-2015, 04:19 PM
It was about a year or two ago when I asked the Guides about time to engage a camp point (Hadden / Fishbone Earring) when someone was camping there, but had went afk and I was next in line.

They said wait for the camper to have a "reasonable amount of time to engage".

I said, "is that like 5 minutes or so?"

They said (paraphrasing - don't have the exact log): "No, more like 30 seconds".

So, more time than having to spam an attack as the NPC spawns and see who has the lowest ping, but not enough time to expect to be able to afk / tab in and out checking on the spawn every 10 minutes.

No idea if it was a Guide that's still around these days though (and things change all the time).

wifeaggro
06-05-2015, 05:07 PM
Is the following spawn campable?
Yendar
PA

wormed
06-05-2015, 05:09 PM
As a Paladin, I can speak from experience that getting the Lucan FTE was a pain in the ass. I was only lucky enough to get it finally when someone graciously offered to kill him for me when I got his approximate previous time of death.

Many people were kind enough to offer me help... after they killed Lucan for themselves, citing that they REALLY NEEDED IT. But I digress, it's over for me. I think it's too bad that Soulfire is usable by non-Paladin's also.

Durothil Skyreaver
06-05-2015, 05:52 PM
Classic or not this is an item that should be flagged paladin only right now.

kaev
06-05-2015, 07:08 PM
Classic or not this is an item that should [have been] flagged paladin only [at least 18 months ago].

ftfy :(

GinnasP99
06-05-2015, 07:10 PM
Nerf soulfire, nerf it now.

Durothil Skyreaver
06-05-2015, 10:42 PM
Classic or not this is an item that should [have been] flagged paladin only [at least 18 months ago].

This.

bktroost
06-05-2015, 10:48 PM
Classic or not this is an item that should [have been] flagged paladin only [at least 18 months ago].

This.

Pleasw GMs, think of the children.

Nightbear
06-05-2015, 11:56 PM
Pleasw GMs, think of the children.

haha^

HeallunRumblebelly
06-06-2015, 12:05 AM
Soulfires / item recharging on blue sounds neat on paper, but it's such a goddamn hassle :P Honestly would not be sad if it were to disappear and we started using class skills again.

Uuruk
06-06-2015, 12:25 AM
I think the most amazing thing about this thread is you got a GM to show up in minutes. If eunomia is not on one of her red ooc kicks it could be days on red. Pras lady eunomia for spending time learning the red server lately though.

iruinedyourday
06-06-2015, 12:52 AM
wait, its as easy as just keeping your character sitting at VT to get her on spawn because of the rules?

damn I dont know why I never once thought of that when it mattered.

Im not reading all this thread.. but this is crappy:

Maybe you're misunderstanding things. If the person camping them does not tag them pretty much as soon as they spawn, then it becomes FTE. You cannot let them stay up uncontested. That's not how *any* camp works, much less Lucan.

No the rules state, 'the person camping the spawn has a reasonable amount of time to kill thier target" meaning that if you instantly fte it because you're like YOU DIDNT AGRO IT IN 2 SECONDS I WIN IM BETTER THAN U then when that other person petitions, you will loose.

arsenalpow
06-06-2015, 01:49 AM
Seriously, nerf soulfires and heal pots on blue. Ivandyr hoops were deemed broken but soulfires and heal pots are ok? Nerf the pots, make soulfire paladin only and give them a reason to be wanted in a raid setting.

kaev
06-06-2015, 02:00 AM
Seriously, nerf soulfires and heal pots on blue. Ivandyr hoops were deemed broken but soulfires and heal pots are ok? Nerf the pots, make soulfire paladin only and give them a reason to be wanted in a raid setting.

Nah, the unshaven ones will simply require all the monks and rogues and cleric-bots to pack reapers lest they be denied their precious DKP. But if the change came without warning all seven of the raiding paladins on the server could gather to bathe in the cleansing and invigorating tears of the 1337dewds who hadn't spent their charges yet.

topgun1027
06-06-2015, 03:31 AM
Yes that's what this post is about, and I am that Paladin.

I was camping Lucan for several hours because a nice member of Indig gave me his previous ToD from 2-3 kills ago. So I had a vague mindframe,

He popped maybe 30 minutes after I thought he would, and I had already prematurely contacted a GM in fear of Lucan being sniped. I had a 60 Monk with me, and a 60 Warlock and 60 Shaman close by who offered to help.

Literally within a second of Lucan spawning, he was sniped. I asked politely in tells for him to show a little bit of respect because I was a paladin working on epic, and he was a 60 war trying to get another clicky. I asked him 4-5 times in tells, he ignored. I asked his clr healer buddy, he told me he couldn't help me. So, the GM who sat with me intervened. Told the war that Lucan is indeed a camp. The war argued with the GM, and another GM came. ETC ETC. In the end, I got the testament.

My point is - I didn't even have a CHANCE to pull, nor did my monk friend. The war just popped out of invis and was gone with Lucan.

Thanks to Indig for helping a lowbie Paladin out. Thanks to the GMs for standing up on the matter. I've spent weeks and weeks trying to get this thing.

Had this happen long time ago good ol Tmo Druid classyness wonder who did it to you.

This. ^

EverQuest is a MMORPG. When you log into EverQuest, and you see all those other people running around with blue and purple (and sometimes red) names over their heads, please realize that those are real people who are here to play and enjoy the game, just like you.

If you show up to camp something, and there is another player already there, try talking to them like the real person that they are! Communicating your intentions (as well as learning what their intentions are) can go a long way to avoid a conflict.

Silently standing in a corner with invis on waiting for the exact moment a mob pops to steal it is not only against the rules, it is a surefire recipe for conflict. Please try to be communicative with other players about camps like this. Talking it out can spare a lot of unnecessary trouble.

We are doing our best to make Project 1999 a fun and hospitable place to enjoy classic EQ. Every time you are able to work something out directly with another player, it helps the staff tremendously.

Thank you for your cooperation!

Thanks
-Moregan

A++ best GM out there thanks for your service Moregan.

Daldaen
06-06-2015, 08:31 AM
Soulfires / item recharging on blue sounds neat on paper, but it's such a goddamn hassle :P Honestly would not be sad if it were to disappear and we started using class skills again.

SoulFires, while classic, I tend to agree pose a large balance concern, similar to Ivandyr's Hoops. I wouldn't be too sad if GMs nuked them. Just post you're doing it a week or two in advance so people can try crazy things with their existing SoulFires.

Item Recharging however... There certainly are some powerful clicks, but item recharging atleast benefits the server by being a way to prevent inflation by taking money out of the system. If you remove that, suddenly the probably 50-100k burned weekly by guilds into the abyss (NPC Vendors), stops disappearing. On a server with this sort of lifespan, I'm not sure how that would end up.

Samoht
06-06-2015, 09:04 AM
No the rules state, 'the person camping the spawn has a reasonable amount of time to kill thier target" meaning that if you instantly fte it because you're like YOU DIDNT AGRO IT IN 2 SECONDS I WIN IM BETTER THAN U then when that other person petitions, you will loose.

No, the rules clearly state that you cannot leave them up uncontested just because you're "camping" it. You cannot be AFK. You have to engage it. The sooner, the better. If you have to resort to petitioning, I'd say you waited too long.

Uuruk
06-06-2015, 09:23 AM
Man blue sounds like so much fun.

Swish
06-06-2015, 09:27 AM
Man blue sounds like so much fun.

http://i.imgur.com/NRIPjyc.gif

Samoht
06-06-2015, 09:35 AM
Same rules exist on red, I'm sure.

Uuruk
06-06-2015, 09:38 AM
Same rules exist on red, I'm sure.

You see on red we just kill the mouth breathing retards.

Uuruk
06-06-2015, 09:40 AM
Same rules exist on red, I'm sure.

Also not a highly contested mob.

Samoht
06-06-2015, 09:45 AM
Right, Lucan isn't as big of a deal on red, but you cannot contest every camp with PVP. Reality just doesn't work that way.

Nightbear
06-06-2015, 09:51 AM
If you have to resort to petitioning, I'd say you waited too long.

Seems like the root of the original post.

I.E. Warrior sitting invis in Lucan room next to the pally, having the spawn timer pretending the mob is Noble Dojorn.

Solution: just be decent human beings. This server is too cutthroat for it's own good.

bktroost
06-06-2015, 03:28 PM
Interesting thoughts going on here. Assume I've been trying to get/ keep Sir Lucan for 2 days straight, waking up at weird hours and trying to get the force and the fte but losing it to other guilds. I've been working and patiently attempting to get this mob for over 48 hours. I log in 15 minutes before hand and sit there invis waiting for him to pop. Who has priority? The guy who waited 30 minutes because he didn't know the timer or the one who has actively been working to track it and get fte for 48 hours?


This exact situation happened twice with phinny and BDA. They had a few people that would try to lock it down and if they knew you were there or you sent them a tell otherwise they brought in more people to train sea horses back and forth until they were ready to pull and would drop them on you...

98% of the server wants to be horrible, 1.4% just wants to play by the agreed upon rules and .6% is unaware of the way the server is done and petitions everything.

Nightbear
06-06-2015, 07:17 PM
They had a few people that would try to lock it down and if they knew you were there or you sent them a tell otherwise they brought in more people to train sea horses back and forth until they were ready to pull and would drop them on you...



Ha, wow that's low down.

Tsalarioth
06-06-2015, 11:10 PM
98% of the server wants to be horrible, 1.4% just wants to play by the agreed upon rules and .6% is unaware of the way the server is done and petitions everything.

I'd say most of the server are of the helpful, generous sort, and this sort of nastiness and cutthroat competition only occurs at the highest of the high end(which tends to be the most vocal).

Bohab
06-06-2015, 11:28 PM
I.E. Warrior sitting invis in Lucan room next to the pally, having the spawn timer pretending the mob is Noble Dojorn.

Invis was used because the War was KoS to the FP guards, not for deception reasons.

Are the DE's in Kith a camp as well? Many experiences of them being an FTE race when it came down to competing groups each with the timer. Seems its only matter of one group claiming it as a camp?

Sadre Spinegnawer
06-06-2015, 11:33 PM
Some of the rough edges on p99 is also due to the group homes.

There are a number of group homes that use p99 and form guilds and use eq to teach lifeskills to the residents. The group home I work with, I won't name my clients' guild, but they are real troopers if you knew where they were coming from.

These kids, some of them have been raised in closets. But now they work hard at learning people skills, teamwork, trust issues, anger management, impulse control, etc, and more than a few of even the "closet kids" went on to be well-known officers on the server, in raiding guilds to boot.

So ya gotta take into account where at least some of the p99 players are coming from in terms of development and life experiences.

So that might not be an total dickweed you are dealing with in game; it might be one of my kids, trying to learn those basic lifeskills many of us take for granted.

Just help them out and give them a fair chance, is all I ask.

Extunarian
06-06-2015, 11:42 PM
Some of the rough edges on p99 is also due to the group homes...


wow after 5 years it all makes so much sense.

sulpher01
06-07-2015, 12:34 AM
Invis was used because the War was KoS to the FP guards, not for deception reasons.

Are the DE's in Kith a camp as well? Many experiences of them being an FTE race when it came down to competing groups each with the timer. Seems its only matter of one group claiming it as a camp?

Good point... I'm going to start petitioning people for stealing my camp at DE's.

arsenalpow
06-07-2015, 02:26 AM
This exact situation happened twice with phinny and BDA. They had a few people that would try to lock it down and if they knew you were there or you sent them a tell otherwise they brought in more people to train sea horses back and forth until they were ready to pull and would drop them on you...
That's a load of shit.

Shjade
06-07-2015, 02:58 AM
So that might not be an total dickweed you are dealing with in game; it might be one of my kids, trying to learn those basic lifeskills many of us take for granted.

Just help them out and give them a fair chance, is all I ask.

I'll give them a fair chance, but fair's fair: if one of your kids is acting like a total dickweed, they're failing those basic social skills.

Lack of practice doesn't make them not-dickweeds in the interim. And how are they going to learn it's inappropriate behavior if they aren't called on it?

bktroost
06-07-2015, 05:05 AM
That's a load of shit.

It is what it is. If it's a competitive camp then that's what it is. No shame in it, we all just adapt.

Tenlaar
06-07-2015, 06:31 AM
No, the rules clearly state that you cannot leave them up uncontested just because you're "camping" it. You cannot be AFK. You have to engage it. The sooner, the better. If you have to resort to petitioning, I'd say you waited too long.

YOU keep saying that you need to engage within seconds. I don't see where the rules are saying this.

Samoht
06-07-2015, 06:37 AM
YOU keep saying that you need to engage within seconds. I don't see where the rules are saying this.

Then that seems like your opinion unless you can show where it says otherwise.

Kluwen1
06-07-2015, 09:28 AM
GM's should just enforce a no dbag rule, if you pull some dbag shit you get a 30 day suspension. That would solve the problem of no variance b/c the high end guilds wouldn't have enough members active to raid :P

The one negative encounter I had with Lucan and a TMO member was basically saying that I didn't hold the camp because I didn't keep it cleared (Brother Jentry). While I didn't necessarily agree I avoided conflict by just randoming for camp. I kind of viewed it like Tranix camp, Tranix is 8 hours and you are required to keep the room giants down to keep it claimed so it didn't seem to unreasonable to have to keep Jentry down. Granted I knew the timer, keeping Jentry down for 8 hours would be a little ridiculous.

Rooj
06-07-2015, 12:14 PM
The only way people are ever going to be satisfied is if someone makes a list of each encounter like this and the staff writes the rules for each and every one - which, while that would be nice and solve most of the disputes, is probably not going to happen.

However, I feel there was an instance where a staff member said that players could use posts in which disputes were discussed and staff members chimed in as a guide to prevent and solve future conflicts. Perhaps someone could gather all the threads like that and combine them into one and get it stickied, and then I suppose the job would already be half done. In many cases the information is already there, it's just lost in an abyss of threads.

kaev
06-07-2015, 04:50 PM
The only way people are ever going to be satisfied is if someone makes a list of each encounter like this and the staff writes the rules for each and every one - which, while that would be nice and solve most of the disputes, is probably not going to happen.

However, I feel there was an instance where a staff member said that players could use posts in which disputes were discussed and staff members chimed in as a guide to prevent and solve future conflicts. Perhaps someone could gather all the threads like that and combine them into one and get it stickied, and then I suppose the job would already be half done. In many cases the information is already there, it's just lost in an abyss of threads.

Oh gawd no. Instead start charging wannabe ruleslawyers 100pp per word they type in petitions. Rules should be simple: "don't be a dick. if both sides of dispute are being dicks then both lose. if you're being like a dick and you have a history of being a dick you lose more than the dispute is about." Would knock at least 10% of the players out of the raid scene overnight.

Swish
06-07-2015, 04:56 PM
For every encounter there's a huge variable... the two parties involved. How they acted, why they acted that way and what should be done probably means a different outcome in some cases.

I trust our CSR staff to give each case their best judgement without trying to further help "lawyer up" the player base.

Rajahten
06-07-2015, 07:52 PM
I think the most amazing thing about this thread is you got a GM to show up in minutes. If eunomia is not on one of her red ooc kicks it could be days on red. Pras lady eunomia for spending time learning the red server lately though.

I had spoken to a GM (Moregan) prior to Lucan spawning, warning him that someone may snipe him from me. He chose to sit with me for about 40 mins until he spawned. That's why he was there within seconds.

Kender
06-07-2015, 08:05 PM
soulfire being used by non paladins, although classic, is an exploit and should be stopped

DetroitVelvetSmooth
06-07-2015, 08:36 PM
I had a vague mindframe,



I feel ya

Tenlaar
06-08-2015, 02:25 AM
Then that seems like your opinion unless you can show where it says otherwise.

So you believe that the rules indicate that every single mob in the game should be a FTE snipefest?

Samoht
06-08-2015, 07:09 AM
So you believe that the rules indicate that every single mob in the game should be a FTE snipefest?

You must not have read a single thing I posted.

Tenlaar
06-08-2015, 03:05 PM
You must not have read a single thing I posted.

I read that you think that somebody who is camping a static spawn has to pull within seconds of the spawn or the mob becomes FFA and free to be FTE sniped.

You know, because that's what you are saying.

Samoht
06-08-2015, 03:24 PM
every single mob in the game should be a FTE snipefest

somebody who is camping a static spawn has to pull within seconds of the spawn

How are these the same thing to you?

Utmost
06-08-2015, 03:48 PM
For camp rules just use search function for "BIOMUNGUS"

Tenlaar
06-09-2015, 10:36 AM
How are these the same thing to you?

Because to the average player, tagging a mob they are camping a few seconds after it spawns is some shitty FTE sniping bullshit that assholes do.

Samoht
06-09-2015, 10:50 AM
And you're just inconveniencing everybody else by letting a mob sit uncontested while you're AFK.

Swish
06-09-2015, 11:16 AM
inconveniencing

http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/163085.jpg

Samoht
06-09-2015, 11:22 AM
^ replace "life is hard" with "mob got tagged" and we're good to go.

Rararboker
06-09-2015, 11:28 AM
^ replace "life is hard" with "mob got tagged" and we're good to go.

New players, take note, this is what the average p99 scumbag looks like.

Samoht
06-09-2015, 11:36 AM
Ad hominem attacks won't change the rules.

Seltius
06-09-2015, 11:46 AM
Didn't read all of this but once upon a time there was a 5 minute window on camped mobs. I believe it was more out of courtesy than anything though I don't remember if there was ever an official ruling. But no you couldn't run in when a mob spawned and engage him because the person camping him didn't engage fast enough for you. That is FTE and they did rule that camped mobs were not FTE. Hadden was a perfect example. He spawns and someone runs in and kills before the person camping him can engage not allowed. I was out of the loop for little over a year but hoping the server hasn't digressed that much in that time. This thread isn't about raids either this is about camps. Raids should be about competition camps should be about being polite enough to know someone else has been sitting at that spawn for hours potentially and you should respect it.

Same with static VP key pieces and other mobs that have static or campable spawns.

Samoht
06-09-2015, 12:17 PM
But no you couldn't run in when a mob spawned and engage him because the person camping him didn't engage fast enough for you. That is FTE and they did rule that camped mobs were not FTE.

Yes, they should get a short grace period.

Didn't read all of this but once upon a time there was a 5 minute window on camped mobs. I believe it was more out of courtesy than anything though I don't remember if there was ever an official ruling.

The problem with a five minute window is that it's simply too long. I'd like to propose a scenario. You zone into LGuk and ask for a camp check. No one calls ASS/SUP, so you make your way there. You arrive at the camp and not only find a Necromancer feigned in the room, but the supplier is up! You send the Necromancer a tell, but he does not respond. What do? You wait 20 seconds, and still no reply. You are now within your full right to take the supplier and assume ownership of this camp.

Assume the same scenario, but you've got a tracker with you that tells you supplier is up on zone in. Still no response on camp check. Still no reply from Necromancer after 20 seconds after you get to the camp and find him FD. It's now your camp.

You have no way to know how long the supplier has been up in either scenario. Did the timer start when you saw it on track? Or when you confirmed it was up and uncontested at the camp? Even if the Necromancer in the camp knows how long ago it spawned, they could easily lie to you about the spawn time, so giving the entitled prick a five minute leeway is entirely too generous.

It's too much work for the rest of the server to keep track of your mobs for you. If you cannot hold down your camp and kill the spawns within a reasonable time frame, you have no claim to the camp. Time to move on, AFK Necromancer.

azeth
06-09-2015, 01:12 PM
Yes, they should get a short grace period.



The problem with a five minute window is that it's simply too long. I'd like to propose a scenario. You zone into LGuk and ask for a camp check. No one calls ASS/SUP, so you make your way there. You arrive at the camp and not only find a Necromancer feigned in the room, but the supplier is up! You send the Necromancer a tell, but he does not respond. What do? You wait 20 seconds, and still no reply. You are now within your full right to take the supplier and assume ownership of this camp.

Assume the same scenario, but you've got a tracker with you that tells you supplier is up on zone in. Still no response on camp check. Still no reply from Necromancer after 20 seconds after you get to the camp and find him FD. It's now your camp.

You have no way to know how long the supplier has been up in either scenario. Did the timer start when you saw it on track? Or when you confirmed it was up and uncontested at the camp? Even if the Necromancer in the camp knows how long ago it spawned, they could easily lie to you about the spawn time, so giving the entitled prick a five minute leeway is entirely too generous.

It's too much work for the rest of the server to keep track of your mobs for you. If you cannot hold down your camp and kill the spawns within a reasonable time frame, you have no claim to the camp. Time to move on, AFK Necromancer.

This. All of it.

azeth
06-09-2015, 01:15 PM
So you believe that the rules indicate that every single mob in the game should be a FTE snipefest?

It should be. If there's anything p99 needs to work on is its rule set. Players will find a way without gm intervention, always have, always will.

Got Lucan sniped because you didn't fte immediately? Lesson learned, engage faster.

the entitled attitude from returning/new players is truly through the roof.

Swish
06-09-2015, 01:20 PM
Got Lucan sniped because you didn't fte immediately? Lesson learned, engage faster.

This is what's wrong. Go back 6 months and you might even see Lucan up with nobody camping him... but of course, there's plat to be made so everyone now jumps on the bandwagon and turns into an asshole lol.

Erati
06-09-2015, 01:21 PM
Sirken talked about Lucan last night on his stream - people interested in this camp may want to listen...

azeth
06-09-2015, 01:22 PM
This is what's wrong. Go back 6 months and you might even see Lucan up with nobody camping him... but of course, there's plat to be made so everyone now jumps on the bandwagon and turns into an asshole lol.

Look the alternative is obeying a rule set for each separate "camp". This is a fundamental mindset issue. Do you want restrictive rules to enforce a share of the spoils? Or do you want freedom, really?

azeth
06-09-2015, 01:25 PM
Note I've had Lucan sniped, I've sniped, I've help snipe, I've seen it sniped and not been involved and I STILL think it's all fair game.

At the end of the day I don't understand why that isn't fun for you people. Is looting and turning in the quest piece your only motivation? Do you not appreciate the competition?

Samoht
06-09-2015, 01:29 PM
Sirken talked about Lucan last night on his stream - people interested in this camp may want to listen...

Any chance you have a transcript? Nobody wants to waste their time listening to that drivel.

azeth
06-09-2015, 01:43 PM
Also does this mean seafury isle is no longer FTE?

My advice to all of you farmers is to camp the small tree near the ruins. There's 13 roamers that spawn around there, and they're all apparently yours now.

Sampten
06-09-2015, 01:43 PM
Any chance you have a transcript? Nobody wants to waste their time listening to that drivel.

In short:

It is a camp, the GM/Guide did the right thing. You have to give a reasonable amount of time, refer to the Play nice policy and last but not least, don't be a d-bag.

Erati
06-09-2015, 03:00 PM
In short:

It is a camp, the GM/Guide did the right thing. You have to give a reasonable amount of time, refer to the Play nice policy and last but not least, don't be a d-bag.

I thought I heard that as well - does mean Jentry needs to be cleared while you are 'camping' it.

Sampten
06-09-2015, 03:40 PM
I thought I heard that as well - does mean Jentry needs to be cleared while you are 'camping' it.

I don't think they got into specifics but basically it was "if there's a person sitting there waiting on him, then it's camped"

It was implied that a few minutes is considered "reasonable". Is "a few minutes" 2 minutes? Is it 5 minutes? That was somewhat grey. It wasn't 10 seconds or less, as some people here want to assume/argue for.

Again....I think it then goes back to the Play Nice Policy and Don't be a D-bag.

Tenlaar
06-10-2015, 08:16 AM
I don't think they got into specifics but basically it was "if there's a person sitting there waiting on him, then it's camped"

It was implied that a few minutes is considered "reasonable". Is "a few minutes" 2 minutes? Is it 5 minutes? That was somewhat grey. It wasn't 10 seconds or less, as some people here want to assume/argue for.

Again....I think it then goes back to the Play Nice Policy and Don't be a D-bag.

A few minutes clearly means at least 3. I personally think 5 minutes is fair, but then again, I'm not a d-bag.

Tenlaar
06-10-2015, 08:18 AM
the entitled attitude from returning/new players is truly through the roof.

The entitled attitude here is coming solely from the "You have three seconds to engage that mob or it is MINE! MINE MINE MINE!" people.

Merekai
06-19-2015, 01:05 AM
Interesting thoughts going on here. Assume I've been trying to get/ keep Sir Lucan for 2 days straight, waking up at weird hours and trying to get the force and the fte but losing it to other guilds. I've been working and patiently attempting to get this mob for over 48 hours. I log in 15 minutes before hand and sit there invis waiting for him to pop. Who has priority? The guy who waited 30 minutes because he didn't know the timer or the one who has actively been working to track it and get fte for 48 hours?


This exact situation happened twice with phinny and BDA. They had a few people that would try to lock it down and if they knew you were there or you sent them a tell otherwise they brought in more people to train sea horses back and forth until they were ready to pull and would drop them on you...

98% of the server wants to be horrible, 1.4% just wants to play by the agreed upon rules and .6% is unaware of the way the server is done and petitions everything.

BDA SCUM!

Chev

Bohab
06-19-2015, 01:13 AM
Interesting thoughts going on here. Assume I've been trying to get/ keep Sir Lucan for 2 days straight, waking up at weird hours and trying to get the force and the fte but losing it to other guilds. I've been working and patiently attempting to get this mob for over 48 hours. I log in 15 minutes before hand and sit there invis waiting for him to pop. Who has priority? The guy who waited 30 minutes because he didn't know the timer or the one who has actively been working to track it and get fte for 48 hours?


This exact situation happened twice with phinny and BDA. They had a few people that would try to lock it down and if they knew you were there or you sent them a tell otherwise they brought in more people to train sea horses back and forth until they were ready to pull and would drop them on you...

98% of the server wants to be horrible, 1.4% just wants to play by the agreed upon rules and .6% is unaware of the way the server is done and petitions everything.

Was present for this exact situation with BDA at the time. Dirty cutthroat playing which enables us to play the same way to compete as necessary. (strive to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others who are trying to do the same)

bktroost
06-19-2015, 10:18 AM
Was present for this exact situation with BDA at the time. Dirty cutthroat playing which enables us to play the same way to compete as necessary. (strive to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others who are trying to do the same)

The only way to break the cycle is for established leadership to slap some wrists, as we see here. If you just choose to not compete That way then the opposition recognizes that they are uncontested due to their show of force and therefore, success is dependent on maintaining It.

Problems arise, however, when leadership chooses to enforce rules based on emotional ties to circumstances. Such as guild X or player Z really needs this and your guild, etc. is stronger, so you need It less.

Also, If rules are not applied to all the mobs in that scenario consistently then people just migrate their tactics to a new one.

Champion_Standing
06-19-2015, 10:47 AM
Make soulfire clickable only by paladins and disable epic MQs. Time to clean this place up.

Daldaen
06-19-2015, 10:50 AM
Make soulfire clickable only by paladins and disable epic MQs. Time to clean this place up.

Make SoulFire paladin only

And ban the sale of epic MQs

That would be a better fix. But very unclassic.

Samoht
06-19-2015, 10:56 AM
Make SoulFire paladin only

And ban the sale of epic MQs

That would be a better fix. But very unclassic.

SoulFire was made Paladin only on live. SoulFire is Paladin only on red. Sounds classic to me.

Champion_Standing
06-19-2015, 11:00 AM
Make SoulFire paladin only

And ban the sale of epic MQs

That would be a better fix. But very unclassic.

Would create a more classic environment imo

Daldaen
06-19-2015, 11:13 AM
SoulFire was made Paladin only on live. SoulFire is Paladin only on red. Sounds classic to me.

During Luclin it was yes :/.

Another reason Luclin is #2 best expansion, behind PoP (nothing comes close to PoP).

Rajahten
06-19-2015, 01:30 PM
Interesting thoughts going on here. Assume I've been trying to get/ keep Sir Lucan for 2 days straight, waking up at weird hours and trying to get the force and the fte but losing it to other guilds. I've been working and patiently attempting to get this mob for over 48 hours. I log in 15 minutes before hand and sit there invis waiting for him to pop. Who has priority? The guy who waited 30 minutes because he didn't know the timer or the one who has actively been working to track it and get fte for 48 hours?


This exact situation happened twice with phinny and BDA. They had a few people that would try to lock it down and if they knew you were there or you sent them a tell otherwise they brought in more people to train sea horses back and forth until they were ready to pull and would drop them on you...

98% of the server wants to be horrible, 1.4% just wants to play by the agreed upon rules and .6% is unaware of the way the server is done and petitions everything.

It's as simple as this. If you're a Paladin and you need this for epic -Camp the mob and if you're there first and you know when Lucan is going to spawn, call a GM. Have your guys ready to engage. Moregan sat there with me until he spawned and witnessed the snipe.

If you want the soulfire for your non-paladin because your clerics can't fucking do their job during a raid, and there are no Paladins present, then fight it out however you want. But leave Paladins alone. Hell, help them for once. I can't thank Indignation enough for their help.

Oh, and when you're done with Lucan part of epic, enjoy forking up 8-10k to the guy who poopsocks other Paladin epic pieces for profit. Revolting.

Daldaen
06-19-2015, 01:36 PM
Nice thing about the paladin epic guys (sword/shield) is that they are exactly 7 day respawns.

Figure out when the last sim repop was, add a few hours, then add 7 days from then, check around that time and he is likely up. If he isn't up, it's likely they aren't as poopsocked as you thought and they were sitting up for quite awhile before someone killed them.

Rajahten
06-19-2015, 01:38 PM
Sword guy is definitely poopsocked. I bought mine from him. Had no other choice, really.

bktroost
06-19-2015, 01:40 PM
It's as simple as this. If you're a Paladin and you need this for epic -Camp the mob and if you're there first and you know when Lucan is going to spawn, call a GM. Have your guys ready to engage. Moregan sat there with me until he spawned and witnessed the snipe.

If you want the soulfire for your non-paladin because your clerics can't fucking do their job during a raid, and there are no Paladins present, then fight it out however you want. But leave Paladins alone. Hell, help them for once. I can't thank Indignation enough for their help.

Oh, and when you're done with Lucan part of epic, enjoy forking up 8-10k to the guy who poopsocks other Paladin epic pieces for profit. Revolting.

Let me ask you a question. Why is your epic more important than the entire server's wizard, ranger and druid epic?

Because that's what you are saying. I appreciate your approach and the heart with which you are coming, but currently VS is only achievable by a CoTH on a tank to get FTE and self heal until a cleric gets called. Without self heals, it is impossible to get and keep FTE on VS, denying an entire guild the potential at 3 classes to get their epic.

If Soulfire was nerfed then everyone would have to change tactics and It becomes a different raid scene...again, the complaint is not with the people, it's with the staff.

Llodd
06-19-2015, 02:09 PM
Hang on. Some don't use ch clicky but rather da idol

Daldaen
06-19-2015, 02:17 PM
Sword guy is definitely poopsocked. I bought mine from him. Had no other choice, really.

I don't think he is poopsocked as hard as you think.

He's not left up for days, definitely. But he does sit up for a few hours before he is downed again.

As I suggested, adding 7 days from the last sim repop +1-2 hours is a very good time to check on him. Keep adding 7 days and maybe 1-2 hours per week since the last repop/respawn and I think you're likely to find him up.

If you don't, it means he isn't killed nearly as fast/poopsocked as hard when the server comes up as you believe and come next server reset you have a decent shot at going after him immediately.

But that aside - I agree Lucan is dumb. Blame the people who sell the Lucan MQ for platinum. And blame the server for having Variance, incentivizing low number engages at 3AM to get dragons killed without having a decent number of players on.

Remove variance and a large chunk of SoulFire use is gone because people will have suitable raid attendance numbers showing up at known times to kill dragons. They will get used a bit in a Trakanon style engage but that's about it.

Tl;dr - Variance is the devil and is the cause of all soulless things. Remove it and players will rejoice.

Ezalor
06-19-2015, 02:27 PM
it makes no sense to nerf ivandyr's hoop but not soulfire clicks by non-paladins

Rajahten
06-19-2015, 02:29 PM
Let me ask you a question. Why is your epic more important than the entire server's wizard, ranger and druid epic?

Because that's what you are saying. I appreciate your approach and the heart with which you are coming, but currently VS is only achievable by a CoTH on a tank to get FTE and self heal until a cleric gets called. Without self heals, it is impossible to get and keep FTE on VS, denying an entire guild the potential at 3 classes to get their epic.

If Soulfire was nerfed then everyone would have to change tactics and It becomes a different raid scene...again, the complaint is not with the people, it's with the staff.

I am definitely not saying that. VS is a raid target, and traditionally, raid targets have been FTE. Paladin epic has their fair share of FTE raid targets. I am not saying anything about Gore/VoX/Tal/Nag. Lucan is soloable. I am sure the day when VS is soloable, which will be never on our server, then the same may apply. He is solely for Paladin epic with an exploit of everyone else being able to use Soulfire. If VS didn't drop class loot, and was limited to only the druid epic, then you could compare them.

This is 1 soloable mob, who drops 1 piece, for 1 classes epic. Not 1 raid mob who drops legs for everyone and 3 dif epic pieces and some other shit.

gkmarino
06-19-2015, 02:34 PM
Time to quit this server

Kope
06-19-2015, 02:37 PM
it makes no sense to nerf ivandyr's hoop but not soulfire clicks by non-paladins

This I actually agree with :).

Rajahten
06-19-2015, 02:40 PM
This I actually agree with :).

so do i

Champion_Standing
06-19-2015, 02:56 PM
Time to quit this server

Misek84
06-19-2015, 04:11 PM
Lol class R been looking down at class C when they got suspended or something for breaking a rule, thinking they they were the good ones who dont break rulez. Now that the rotation is dead and class R needs to compete they see all the bs with all these rules (inconsistent ruling, ambiguous, etc).

Clark
06-19-2015, 04:11 PM
Hmm

bktroost
06-19-2015, 06:04 PM
I am definitely not saying that. VS is a raid target, and traditionally, raid targets have been FTE. Paladin epic has their fair share of FTE raid targets. I am not saying anything about Gore/VoX/Tal/Nag. Lucan is soloable. I am sure the day when VS is soloable, which will be never on our server, then the same may apply. He is solely for Paladin epic with an exploit of everyone else being able to use Soulfire. If VS didn't drop class loot, and was limited to only the druid epic, then you could compare them.

This is 1 soloable mob, who drops 1 piece, for 1 classes epic. Not 1 raid mob who drops legs for everyone and 3 dif epic pieces and some other shit.

My friend, I completely wish that this was the case. I 100% wish that this server had rules that made It so stupid things like Soulfire, reaper of the dead, DA idols and wort potions were not necessary for VS. In fact, our guild doesn't encourage Trak with small groups of soulfire players or any target other than VS. For some reason, we are allowed 1 DA idol but an endless use of headling items as long as DPS is incoming. If you don't have these items you don't get VS. Hands down.

Theoretically what you are saying makes sense. Practically, it results in no successful kills.

Synthlol
07-18-2015, 02:11 PM
That's definitely too long. You would be inconveniencing a lot of people.

About half a year ago I logged my druid in to the AC spawn point in OoT around 8am. The Ancient Cyclops was already up and at 100% hp, and there was a lone wizard sitting in front of it. This player was making no attempt to engage his rare spawn. After half a minute or so, I sent him a tell asking him if he intended to kill the AC and got no response. I asked again in /say, and yet he remained silent and motionless.

I started a timer and continued to attempt to establish communication with him, never getting so much as a /nod. When the timer hit 5:00, I let him know that I had given him plenty of time (about 6 minutes at that point) to return to his keyboard and prepare to engage, and that I intended to kill the AC unless he demonstrated he was no longer AFK. He remained silent and motionless, so I assumed he was asleep at his keyboard and began to root-rot his AC. After a few minutes my dots killed it, and I let him know that he had once last chance to claim his ring. He was still sitting in the same spot as when I had first logged in, and did not react in any way to me killing the AC he had spawned. I looted the ring and typed /camp, and the wizard never said a word or moved a muscle.

Later that day I was on my druid trying to spawn Hasten. I received a message from Aussie claiming that I had infringed on another players camp that morning and stolen their AC ring. I protested briefly, trying to tell him my side of the story, but Aussie insisted that unless I MQ'd the ring to the player of the AFK wizard's choosing, my account would be banned.

TL;DR - You are wrong.

Tecmos Deception
07-18-2015, 03:39 PM
He's not really wrong. The PNP for blue just basically gives guides discretion with the "camps are handled on a case-by-case basis" line. Seems the general guidelines say that someone pretty much needs to keep PHs/nameds engaged/dead in order to have a camp.

Is your story unembelished? Did you leave out info about how you've actually KSed ACs in the past? Did you have hard proof for Aussie that you offered to provide to him right away? Were you polite while talking to him about it? Etc.

fastboy21
07-18-2015, 04:34 PM
The emerging problem on p99 is that we aren't really playing classic EQ anymore. We are playing a new game that classic EQ would have eventually become if it had remained static forever.

EQ is a complicated enough system between the mechanics of the play and social aspects that the emerging game play changes the overall experience of the game. There are countless examples of this. As a fan of EQ, I have loved watching it develop---even the not so wonderful nice stuff that has happened on p99. It makes our game alive and exciting to play. It allows real community. Good guys, bad guys, villains, server-wide fame and hatred. Take notes modern game developers with all your fancy graphics and pixels.

There are solutions to "fix" these "problems" (nerfs, etc.) but 1) not everyone agrees that this is even a problem and 2) each time you fix the problem by changing the game you move p99 away from its original vision to recreate classic EQ.

The real solution? Classic EQ can only be experienced on its original timeline. Since the only way to do that would be to reset the server or start another one (which will eventually happen someday) the best alternative is to enjoy p99 for what it is. The emerging game play on p99---even with all the issues---is one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. Enjoy it for what it is.

Synthlol
07-18-2015, 04:56 PM
Is your story unembelished [sic]?

Check. The guy was a perfect impersonation of a statue the entire time from when I logged in to when I logged out, all while I was having a very one sided conversation with him. It was around to 6 minutes before I engaged, considering that I neither started a timer immediately upon logging in nor engaged immediately when the timer hit 5 minutes. I assure you six minutes is longer than it sounds when you're sitting beside a stone cold AFK player and an Ancient Cyclops is in front of you. Add in a two minute kill time with druid dots, then a minute to give him a final chance to show any sign of life, loot the ring myself when he doesn't, and /camp out, and he was AFK for 8-9 minutes, plus however long he sat there before I logged in. Exactly what you'd imagine someone asleep at their keyboard would look like.

Did you leave out info about how you've actually KSed ACs in the past?

Nope, I'm not a vulture. I've never had any issues at the AC camp, or anywhere else on the server that I can ever recall. I've had many guide rulings in my favor when unreasonable players have tried to encroach on my camps unfairly, but that was the only time I've ever had action taken against me for any sort of player dispute, at least that I can remember. I did join the server in 2010, and I've played on and off.

Did you have hard proof for Aussie that you offered to provide to him right away?

I was not running fraps or recording logs. I do both now. Not saving logs was an oversight (I didn't know that was a feature at the time), but running fraps in order to ensure I don't get screwed over by other player's lies makes this game feel much less like a game. Video records have however saved the day since then, when players have felt the need to blatantly KS me for whatever reasons they had that were important enough to get themselves suspended.

On the other hand though, there's no way the AFK player had any 'hard proof' I stole it, because what happened that morning was in no way theft. He had long forfeited any claim to that ring when I looted it.

Were you polite while talking to him about it?

Absolutely. I've always treated the server staff with respect and courtesy. Aussie told me that the player claimed he was having connection issues after he returned to his keyboard (or woke up) and saw my messages. I tried to explain that in my experience players with connections issues tend to go linkdead instead of appearing AFK for 8-9 minutes, and that the server rules suggested that either scenario would be a forfeiture of his claim to the camp. That was when I was told I could either MQ the ring to him or have my account banned.




I never felt like justice was done that day, and I understand you coming up with theories that might explain why I would've been required to give that ring back. I always wanted a good explanation myself, and I've never gotten one.

Tecmos Deception
07-18-2015, 06:10 PM
Sounds like you just got bit in the ass by not having logs I guess. I'm sure there are a lot of situations that unfold on the server that, when a guide glances quickly at whatever logs they have access to after hearing a story from a petitioner, by the time they hear whatever the respondent has to say their mind could already be made up. Not slamming them, just the way it seems like it could go all too easily.

jarshale
07-18-2015, 06:31 PM
So what I got from this thread is Lucan will now be perma camped, encouraging even more RMT.

Kender
07-18-2015, 06:54 PM
if you hadn't sent him any tells he probably wouldn't have even known about it

moral of the story. don't be a nice guy

Samoht
07-18-2015, 09:36 PM
Later that day I was on my druid trying to spawn Hasten. I received a message from Aussie claiming that I had infringed on another players camp that morning and stolen their AC ring. I protested briefly, trying to tell him my side of the story, but Aussie insisted that unless I MQ'd the ring to the player of the AFK wizard's choosing, my account would be banned.

TL;DR - You are wrong.

Guide was wrong. Sounds like you need to grow some balls.

Synthlol
07-18-2015, 09:48 PM
Guide was wrong. Sounds like you need to grow some balls.

Sounds like you've got something to prove.

Samoht
07-18-2015, 09:58 PM
Sounds like you've got something to prove.

Or, you know, you could have stood up to him, told him he was wrong, and dealt with it like a man instead of a spineless wimp.

Your prerogative.

Synthlol
07-18-2015, 10:15 PM
Or, you know, you could have stood up to him, told him he was wrong, and dealt with it like a man instead of a spineless wimp.

You're assuming that I didn't tell him that he was wrong. That is an incorrect assumption. Your eagerness to make it and your fixation on machismo makes it clear that you have something to prove. This is quite common of men who feel inadequate about the size of their genitals.

The fact that you're seeming to claim you would eat a ban to prove a point and lose the ring anyways just to feel better about yourself doesn't help your case. Neither does your assertion that the measure of a man is in how easily he parts with his video game items.

Samoht
07-18-2015, 11:17 PM
You're assuming that I didn't tell him that he was wrong. That is an incorrect assumption. Your eagerness to make it and your fixation on machismo makes it clear that you have something to prove. This is quite common of men who feel inadequate about the size of their genitals.

The fact that you're seeming to claim you would eat a ban to prove a point and lose the ring anyways just to feel better about yourself doesn't help your case. Neither does your assertion that the measure of a man is in how easily he parts with his video game items.

Aussie cannot delete your ring. No GM would have upheld his ban. Ty for playing.

captnamazing
07-19-2015, 12:39 AM
logs = on

webrunner5
07-19-2015, 02:55 PM
A few minutes clearly means at least 3. I personally think 5 minutes is fair, but then again, I'm not a d-bag.

3 minutes, 5 minutes comes off to me like the person camping it is having sex or taking a crap. :p

FTE or go home at that point, or even earlier. :)

fastboy21
07-19-2015, 05:00 PM
the person camping it is having sex or taking a crap. :p


if you are camping a mob in EQ for several days its highly unlikely to be the sex excuse.

Rararboker
07-19-2015, 05:06 PM
It takes you 3-5 minutes to take a crap???

Get that diet in order my friend.

fastboy21
07-19-2015, 06:16 PM
It takes you 3-5 minutes to take a crap???

Get that diet in order my friend.

It takes me 3-5 minutes just to re-read the Prima Kunark Guide I keep in my bathroom for those situations...

Juevento
07-19-2015, 10:44 PM
I just had a couple of Forsaken guys KS Lucan off of my FTE (and after I killed Jentry and the other guard in the room). They started spouting this "camp" nonsense as they were invisible in the room before I showed up (I don't dispute this).

Please someone explain to me how a mob with a 7-8 hour spawn is campable. That whole idea is beyond ludicrous. I'd love for a GM to chime in and put a stop to that bull.

Cecily
07-19-2015, 10:49 PM
The same way Tranix is, per the GMs. Sooo you mean to say you KSed them, right?

Rararboker
07-19-2015, 10:58 PM
Lucan isn't FTE. Guess thread was tldr?

kaev
07-19-2015, 11:30 PM
Soulfire needs to DT a non-paladin who tries to click it from inventory (stealth change please.) The Lucan circus on this server has become too stupid for words.

Mooso
07-20-2015, 12:38 AM
The same way Tranix is, per the GMs. Sooo you mean to say you KSed them, right?
tried and died.

Samoht
07-20-2015, 09:20 AM
The same way Tranix is, per the GMs. Sooo you mean to say you KSed them, right?

I believe that ruling was, just like on Tranix, that if you don't keep the rest of the mobs in the room dead, you don't have any claim to the camp.

Assuming his story is true, Juevento did get KSed.

Daldaen
07-20-2015, 09:23 AM
Lodizal better not be considered a camp. It should have a random spawn location and be FTE. Cause having people "camp" Lodizal by sitting in Iceclad doing nothing for 8 hours at s time will be retarded.

Erati
07-20-2015, 09:25 AM
WTB Lody FTE YT

Swish
07-20-2015, 09:25 AM
Lodizal better not be considered a camp. It should have a random spawn location and be FTE. Cause having people "camp" Lodizal by sitting in Iceclad doing nothing for 8 hours at s time will be retarded.

Does it have a random spawn location on beta at the moment?

Neno
07-20-2015, 09:28 AM
Lodizal better not be considered a camp. It should have a random spawn location and be FTE. Cause having people "camp" Lodizal by sitting in Iceclad doing nothing for 8 hours at s time will be retarded.

sounds classic.

Daldaen
07-20-2015, 09:39 AM
Does it have a random spawn location on beta at the moment?

Haven't been bored enough to find out. Too many other beta bugs to report.

SamwiseRed
07-20-2015, 09:41 AM
Lodizal better not be considered a camp. It should have a random spawn location and be FTE. Cause having people "camp" Lodizal by sitting in Iceclad doing nothing for 8 hours at s time will be retarded.

dont you guys already do that on blue for every other mob?

kaev
07-20-2015, 10:39 AM
dont you guys already do that on blue for every other mob?

Nah, just for the rats, bats, and orc pawns. The rest are all FFA. :rolleyes:

Freakish
07-20-2015, 10:47 AM
A random spawn location? I thought it always popped at the same spot. On one of the icebergs close to the main land, then started pathing. I socked it a few times on live, it always popped there for me.


Ninja edit, went on Alla
The belt is super rare. The spawn times aren't static. It always pops on the small floating block of ice that is empty at the corner of the island with the gnolls, and immediately begins to walk towards the gnoll camp, then will pass the huts and walk towards the lone tree, stopping on somewhat of a nook a ways up, hiding it from being easily viewed from many angles. It will sit there for several minutes then make the same journey back.

That's how I remember it from when I kept Lodizal locked down too.

TarukShmaruk
07-20-2015, 12:51 PM
I got FTE on my warrior Keary in AG. I was under the impression Lucan was an FTE mob due to my many past experiences. I have no shame in what I did because I thought I was within the rules. I was not apparently and the rule needs to be consistent across the board (they are not). I will just AFK camp him when needed moving forward and toss out petitions when somebody attacks him before me...

Only reason I need to kill Lucan is to compete against guilds such as the Paladin's that was camping Lucan. I didn't ask for the raid environment to be so cutthroat that I need to try and FTE Lucan from a Paladin in a competing guild but it is what it is. Don't take it personal, it was strictly business.


Having SoulFire to clicky isn't the make or break difference between you and some other guild and you know it. Also rules lawyering is for dicks. You're a dick.

This entire post was about you justifying why you're a twat. Just own it - you were a twat and you got slapped for it.

dafier
07-20-2015, 12:54 PM
Lucan is a crap idiot and he needs to die. Also he is FTE. GL!

Darkatar
07-20-2015, 01:21 PM
Moregan: It spawns at a static location, it is definitely campable.

Eunomia: it is a campable spawn. It is static. The person camping may not log/zone/die but it is the same type of camp as any other static spawn

Does this mean that Verina Tomb & Vessel Drozlin are also camps and not FTE? Since when? Variance makes the difference?

So we can afk camp Lucan till the final minute? Awesome!

I am confused...
He's not FTE