Shaman Math

[kevfire]

I'm just trying to get clarification on whats better for a sham, working on getting 200wis or stick with 140-150 and going for pure hp.

The whole HP thing doesn't make sense to me, so I'm looking for someone to prove me wrong in thinking that 200 wis is the way to go.

A small example I have is 6wis rings vs 55hp rings.

so at 50, 6 wis rings would be a total of 120 mana.

so 120 mana vs 110 hp

110 hp converts to ~44 mana with canny?

The HP regen of the shaman whether wis or hp will remain the same, so the wis shaman, though not able to canny as much from the start..over a 10 minute period I imagine would be the same amount of canny.

Any thoughts?

[Dogkota]

WIS is by far the most important stat you need to work on until you have 200. The reason HP or Mana (or both) gear becomes more important after that is because there are greatly diminishing returns on Wisdom after you breach the soft cap of 200. My Shaman is currently operating with 201wis, but I have a number of +hp and +mana items that increase my stats well beyond what wisdom items would.

For instance I'm using Ivandyr's Hoop (6wis, 6hp) in one ear and Golden Black Sapphire Earring (25hp 35 mana) in the other. I have a 6wis ring and a 5/55 ring. I'm using Platinum Dragon Totem (30hp, 50mana) with Pearl Kedge Totem (18wis).

Mana and having a minimum of 200wis are far more important to a Shaman than having a huge pool of health from which to cannibalize.

[zt004]

Looking cool is priority #1

Then, it comes down to your play style. I, personally, use 2h hammer and melee for a lot of my DPS and use canni to get mana back. If you are healing, wis/mana more important. It's your choice at this stage,

[ElanoraBryght]

Are you talking about for an exp group, a solo group, a raid? Healing or debuffing?

Not every shaman even agrees on this, but to me, AC > HP > Wis.
I carry diff gear and swap out to increase wis for the pre-raid buffing, but once raid starts, I need to live through it. That means sometimes drawing agro away from casters through root, blind, heals, etc. and living through summons / multi pulls / heal agro when you're healing the casters. You hope you won't draw agro off the tank, but if you're the only one doing malosi / slow / incap, you're prob going to get agro at some point. Depending on the mob, you may be summoned. AC will lower the damage you take from the hits, HP will let you take more of them, and you better be able to stand there and take the hits until the MA draws the mobs attention back to him.

If you play like a healer, and rarely get hit, you want Wis gear. If you always root mobs and dot from a distance, and rarely get hit, you want Wis gear. But you're really limiting your play options to just heal / buff / long distance damage if you go this route. A shaman can wear chain for a reason, and that's because you're made to take some damage and still be standing afterwards.

[Teseer]

I'd prefer to have a larger HP pool as mana does not assist with survivability.

[skorge]

Are you talking about for an exp group, a solo group, a raid? Healing or debuffing?

Not every shaman even agrees on this, but to me, AC > HP > Wis.
I carry diff gear and swap out to increase wis for the pre-raid buffing, but once raid starts, I need to live through it. That means sometimes drawing agro away from casters through root, blind, heals, etc. and living through summons / multi pulls / heal agro when you're healing the casters. You hope you won't draw agro off the tank, but if you're the only one doing malosi / slow / incap, you're prob going to get agro at some point. Depending on the mob, you may be summoned. AC will lower the damage you take from the hits, HP will let you take more of them, and you better be able to stand there and take the hits until the MA draws the mobs attention back to him.

If you play like a healer, and rarely get hit, you want Wis gear. If you always root mobs and dot from a distance, and rarely get hit, you want Wis gear. But you're really limiting your play options to just heal / buff / long distance damage if you go this route. A shaman can wear chain for a reason, and that's because you're made to take some damage and still be standing afterwards.

This...100% agree

[Swishahouse]

Are you talking about for an exp group, a solo group, a raid? Healing or debuffing?

Not every shaman even agrees on this, but to me, AC > HP > Wis.
I carry diff gear and swap out to increase wis for the pre-raid buffing, but once raid starts, I need to live through it. That means sometimes drawing agro away from casters through root, blind, heals, etc. and living through summons / multi pulls / heal agro when you're healing the casters. You hope you won't draw agro off the tank, but if you're the only one doing malosi / slow / incap, you're prob going to get agro at some point. Depending on the mob, you may be summoned. AC will lower the damage you take from the hits, HP will let you take more of them, and you better be able to stand there and take the hits until the MA draws the mobs attention back to him.

If you play like a healer, and rarely get hit, you want Wis gear. If you always root mobs and dot from a distance, and rarely get hit, you want Wis gear. But you're really limiting your play options to just heal / buff / long distance damage if you go this route. A shaman can wear chain for a reason, and that's because you're made to take some damage and still be standing afterwards.

THIS ^^

Also at 50 root/rotting becomes slow and tedious. Many solo mobs that I take on I will slowtank and simply allow wolfie to add utility through weps and DPS. If more mana is needed I will cani while tanking, it does suck to not get the med tick but if you need more you need more. Using a blued two handed hammer with 255str/255dex w/self buffs gives some decent white damage and will proc often. Keep Chloro up and Rage fresh and the mob slowed and crippled if needed and you will do great.

As far as wisdom is concerned I fail to see the point in losing one of the key aspects of your Shaman and that is the survivability. 99% of the time you will not be the main healer in a group and even if you are using your utility spells on the mobs will give you a greater net benefit then having the extra mana to try and heal through, imo.

[DekThai]

Flashback 10 years ago, I saw a shaman soloed Ass room in LGUK and he was tanking with his doggy and doing his DOT thing and I was amaze with my Necro. Sure, my Necro can do that as well but watching him taking hits and break the room Rambo style was pretty impressive. He wasn't level 50 if I remembered correctly.

He was wearing full Temple of Ro plate armour and I'm sure that helps (Plate= high AC). Like above poster said AC>HP>Wis.

I wish I had a shaman, but I got too many alts already haha.

[Brut]

Yar I too got ac>hp>wis ogre shm going.
Didn't roll one to buff some rangers on a raid - that's what the barbarians in their plat armbands and gator leggings can do. I'd rather solo me a lodizal!

[Droxx]

Wis increases your mana pool. You're mana pool size only matters when its full. If you're a shaman and you're full mana, you're doing it wrong. More HP means more mana regen, and more mana regen is more important than having more mana when you're at 100%. Plus HP = survival.

[Estu]

More HP means more mana regen

Not really true. It's not like canni gives you more mana per HP if you have more total HP; it's a fixed amount. Yeah, regen will increase your HP gain per tick and by extension your mana gain per tick, but having more total HP doesn't change anything. So having more HP will give you more mana in the same way that having more WIS will give you more mana, except the HP will be less efficient for it. The valid point here is that more HP = more survivability, though I agree with the above posters that AC>HP>mana.

[Taluvill]

I know this guy, Jeremy, who has a barbarian shaman, and he has the CT hammer.

after self buffs he maxes to 255 dex, and also has like 150+ wis, more than enough for casting.

He melee's and procs wayyyy better than most, and has a 300 dmg nuke almost on constant proc. Shamans are fun.

[Rahnza]

Not really true. It's not like canni gives you more mana per HP if you have more total HP; it's a fixed amount. Yeah, regen will increase your HP gain per tick and by extension your mana gain per tick, but having more total HP doesn't change anything. So having more HP will give you more mana in the same way that having more WIS will give you more mana, except the HP will be less efficient for it. The valid point here is that more HP = more survivability, though I agree with the above posters that AC>HP>mana.

Let's say you're uncomfortable about canning below 40%, and also ignoring hp regen.

And let's consider a shaman who's highly built around HP gear and has about 2000 HP. 40% of 2000 = can't go below 800 HP. We have another shaman who focuses on Wis gear and he has about 1500 HP. 40% of 1500 is 600 HP.

They both start canning for mana. 48 seconds later (18 cannis), shaman 2 is at 40% HP and must stop. He regained approximately 430 mana.

Shaman 1 continues to canni for 16.5 seconds longer than shaman 2, or 6 additional cannis. He's now at 40% HP and regained approximately 575 mana.

So please explain, how does having more HP not assist with mana regen?

[Swishahouse]

Out of combat I cani down to the point where with Chloro+Rage I will return to full health and mana at the same time....


There is absolutely no purpose to ignore HP regen and I cannot stand when people try and make that hypothetical because HP regen is a core foundation of the shaman class and one of the main reasons it works....

[Rahnza]

Out of combat I cani down to the point where with Chloro+Rage I will return to full health and mana at the same time....


There is absolutely no purpose to ignore HP regen and I cannot stand when people try and make that hypothetical because HP regen is a core foundation of the shaman class and one of the main reasons it works....

HP regen was "ignored" for the above example because we were considering 2 shaman with the same amount of hp regen. It wouldn't have affected the point at all, and if we ran this "experiment" for say an hour with hp regen factored in, then the shaman with more hp would have regained even larger amounts of mana over the shaman with more wis.

Also if you're ever at full health and mana, "ur doing it wrong."

[Swishahouse]

Oh yeah you are right I've had people ask me to ignore that to make a different point.

For the most part I agree if you are maximising your shaman you probably will not be at 100% health however and this is particularly when soloing I will go to 100H/100M before engaging certain targets Lguk AM comes to mind =D

[Estu]

Let's say you're uncomfortable about canning below 40%, and also ignoring hp regen.

And let's consider a shaman who's highly built around HP gear and has about 2000 HP. 40% of 2000 = can't go below 800 HP. We have another shaman who focuses on Wis gear and he has about 1500 HP. 40% of 1500 is 600 HP.

They both start canning for mana. 48 seconds later (18 cannis), shaman 2 is at 40% HP and must stop. He regained approximately 430 mana.

Shaman 1 continues to canni for 16.5 seconds longer than shaman 2, or 6 additional cannis. He's now at 40% HP and regained approximately 575 mana.

So please explain, how does having more HP not assist with mana regen?

Because it will take you more time to make up that extra HP you lost, so overall, doesn't make you regain your HP/Mana any faster. In a situation where you're just soloing things one after another, you care about minimizing the amount of time between pulls, which means maximizing your AC (to lower damage taken, and by extension time spent healing) and regen. Having a higher HP or mana pool will not affect the amount of time between pulls in the long run; it will just maybe give you a little bonus at the very beginning when you arrive at your destination with full HP and mana after having been sitting in EC for a while or whatnot. Having a higher HP or mana pull does help you take down tougher pulls, so if you're going after a single very tough thing rather than an indefinite series of not-that-tough things, yeah, you'll want a large HP/mana pool. Otherwise? It's about minimizing the amount of time between pulls.

[Rahnza]

Because it will take you more time to make up that extra HP you lost, so overall, doesn't make you regain your HP/Mana any faster. In a situation where you're just soloing things one after another, you care about minimizing the amount of time between pulls, which means maximizing your AC (to lower damage taken, and by extension time spent healing) and regen. Having a higher HP or mana pool will not affect the amount of time between pulls in the long run; it will just maybe give you a little bonus at the very beginning when you arrive at your destination with full HP and mana after having been sitting in EC for a while or whatnot. Having a higher HP or mana pull does help you take down tougher pulls, so if you're going after a single very tough thing rather than an indefinite series of not-that-tough things, yeah, you'll want a large HP/mana pool. Otherwise? It's about minimizing the amount of time between pulls.

Chain canni is about equivalent to FT9. Shaman 1 is essentially buffed with FT9 for for 48 seconds, and then has to sit and regen mana normally. Shaman two is essentially buffed with FT9 for 64.5 seconds, and then has to sit and regen mana normally. Shaman two is able to regen approximately an extra 150 mana in 16.5 seconds compared to shaman 1. To say this doesn't affect the amount of time between pulls is like saying if they added a 5 minute "wait" period before your clarity could be refreshed, it wouldn't affect the amount of time between pulls. It sure as hell would.

[rachel]

My female ogre shamman has 219 wisdom... muwaahhahahaah

P1999 has a soft cap at 200 wisdom yes.
On eq live every 1 wisdom over 200 gave 1 mana.
On P1999 every 1 wisdom over 200 gives 6/7 mana ? something like that.

I think wisdom is better for my play style , as I mostly cast.
With Canni 2 in kunark and torpor , I see the point of mana doesn't matter as much. Ac/Hp matters more. IF YOU ARE TANKING. Otherwise mana is more important if you have any kind of tank in the raid/group.

Each shammy is different , and I'd say 9 out of 10 go for ac/hp setup. Than quit the server before kunark anyway.

[Dogkota]

For you other 50 sham out there, what's your hp/mana/ac unbuffed? Particularly those of you with 150wis and high hp items

I'm sitting at 1233hp, 2220mana, 677ac unbuffed

[Droxx]

1225hp, 2010 mana, 700 ac, 177 wis. Troll, combo of wis/hp/mana. No items specifically for AC.

[Estu]

Chain canni is about equivalent to FT9. Shaman 1 is essentially buffed with FT9 for for 48 seconds, and then has to sit and regen mana normally. Shaman two is essentially buffed with FT9 for 64.5 seconds, and then has to sit and regen mana normally. Shaman two is able to regen approximately an extra 150 mana in 16.5 seconds compared to shaman 1. To say this doesn't affect the amount of time between pulls is like saying if they added a 5 minute "wait" period before your clarity could be refreshed, it wouldn't affect the amount of time between pulls. It sure as hell would.

Sir, you're missing the point. That HP doesn't just come out of nowhere. Once you've spent your extra HP, you need to wait longer to regenerate it.

Think of it this way. Let's say you have Shaman A with 1500 HP and Shaman B with 1000 HP, and the two shamen are otherwise the same, and they are both trying to take down an endless series of mobs. They decide that they can safely take down a mob when they have at least 500 HP, so they both start out by killing mobs until they get below 500, and then wait to get back up to 500. Clearly Shaman A has the advantage here, because he will take longer to get below 500.

But! Once they are down to 500, they are effectively the exact same shaman, because every mob takes them down exactly the same amount of HP (I am leaving mana out of the picture here; essentially, imagine that they both want to be full mana before every fight, so they will canni however much they need after a fight to get back up to full mana). So, after those first couple of mobs where Shaman A doesn't need to wait between pulls, THESE SHAMEN ARE EXACTLY THE SAME.

Let me stress that. After the first couple of pulls, there is no difference between these shamen in terms of how fast they can pull mobs.

Now, in practice, you're not going to have both shamen waiting until they have 500 HP in order to pull a mob. But this doesn't matter. Let's say Shaman A waits until he has all 1500 HP, and Shaman B waits until he has all 1000 HP; each mob will STILL deplete them the exact same amount of HP, so both shamen will STILL wait the exact same amount between pulls.

Having more HP improves your survivability for tough pulls that you might not otherwise be able to handle. It does NOT improve your long-term speed to kill a long series of easy mobs. AC, on the other hand, helps in both cases, since it will reduce the amount of damage you take from either the tough mobs or the easy ones, both making you more able to take down tough mobs, and faster to take down a long series of easy ones, since you spend less time healing between pulls. Now, maybe a large HP pool is more important than extra AC when it comes to taking down a single tough mob, but extra AC is clearly the only thing that will help you when you are taking down a long series of easy mobs. (This, of course, assumes that you are root-dotting rather than meleeing; if you're meleeing, STR and DEX start to come into play; but the point about HP still stands.)

[Droxx]

But! Once they are down to 500, they are effectively the exact same shaman, because every mob takes them down exactly the same amount of HP (I am leaving mana out of the picture here; essentially, imagine that they both want to be full mana before every fight, so they will canni however much they need after a fight to get back up to full mana)

If they both "essentially want to be at full mana before each fight", shaman A will still have the advantage. Shaman B will take much longer to regen to full mana cause of all his extra wis. Shaman A pulls and kills sooner. Thanks for your story, it helped prove our point.

[FireEmblem86]

If they both "essentially want to be at full mana before each fight", shaman A will still have the advantage. Shaman B will take much longer to regen to full mana cause of all his extra wis. Shaman A pulls and kills sooner. Thanks for your story, it helped prove our point.

So he has more mana, and thus he USES more mana in each fight?

What?

[Droxx]

So he has more mana, and thus he USES more mana in each fight?

What?

That was never stated. The fact is that it takes more time to regen 1500 mana than it does to regen 1000 mana.

[Swishahouse]

1269 HP, 1765Mana, 819AC

[Droxx]

Either way,
OP: In a controlled, safe scenario, there will be little difference in the stats that you choose as a shaman. Different scenarios will require different stats, and there's no right answer to what stats you want to max. Play style will affect this too.

Personally, I want to know that when shit hits the fan worst case style, I have enough HP AND Mana to survive the fight.

[FireEmblem86]

That was never stated. The fact is that it takes more time to regen 1500 mana than it does to regen 1000 mana.

Yes, yes it was. If you use 1000 mana in a fight, then the other guy should use the same amount (on average, over a period of time).

Fight
Use 1000 mana
Med to full

Doesn't take the guy with 1500 mana longer to med, it just means that he ends the fight with 33% mana.

[Droxx]

Yes, yes it was. If you use 1000 mana in a fight, then the other guy should use the same amount (on average, over a period of time).

Fight
Use 1000 mana
Med to full

Doesn't take the guy with 1500 mana longer to med, it just means that he ends the fight with 33% mana.

Who's to say they'll use the same amount of mana? I'd almost guarantee someone who maxes HP will fight differently than someone who maxes wis.
There's no way to say either one is better with hypothetical situations.

Level a shaman to 50.
Max wis.
I'll max hp.
We can kill shit all day long and count who kills more.

[Rahnza]

Sir, you're missing the point.

Ok, let's see.

That HP doesn't just come out of nowhere. Once you've spent your extra HP, you need to wait longer to regenerate it.
HP regenerates faster than mana, so I don't see how this is a disadvantage vs. higher wis/mana pool. This is ESPECIALLY the case later in your "solo chain pull" example, assuming you only have your own buffs (lots of HP regen, no clarity).

Point: Reiker. Erm, I mean Rahnza.

Basically in your example, what you're saying is that having higher HP will give you an advantage when you start soloing, and also better survivability. You gave no advantage to high wis shaman, and only saying that they will begin to "equal" out over time. Advantage still to high HP.

Point: Rahnza.

Your example is very limited, and only looks at 2 soloing shaman. Let's look at raiding. You conceded that the high HP shaman has an advantage vs. high wis at the beginning of a solo session (100% hp/mana). Your solo example includes no rest time, however this "rest time" occurs a bunch during raiding, for example before a boss. So, you'd have to agree that a high HP shaman will perform much better than a high wis shaman versus a raid boss.

Point: Rahnza

What you're saying is that high HP shaman performs better than a high wisdom shaman while soloing and especially while raiding.

So... what point was it I was missing again?

Edit: Your only other point is that shaman generally perform equally while soloing for awhile. This is... true and false. In Kunark, this is completely false, as it's very difficult to have enough HP to make Torpor completely efficient even if you ignore wisdom completely. So, when we factor Torpor, you're completely wrong. In classic, high HP just makes your life easier (and as you conceded, makes you much more powerful at max hp/mana). The lower your HP is, the harder canni management is (you never want to reach 100% hp, and having 500 HP less than another shaman means you have to canni more often to stay below that ceiling). The advantage of a high hp shaman in this case (500/1500 hp vs. 500/1000) is breathing room. This can even make you more efficient. Say you regen to 1200/1500 and need to apply another poison, you have 300 HP left before you have to start canning, so you can fire off the poison np. The 1000 hp shaman would be frantically canning to stay below max hp and then juggling that with refreshing dots, etc. And since starting in Kunark there is no such thing as too much HP, why not just start building that way in classic?

I'm not even going to begin to argue against you as per AC vs. HP. First of all, this is very dependent on how often you solo vs. how often you group/raid. Second, people debated AC vs. HP for years on live (no one disagreeing that AC was important, but at what point should you sacrifice HP for AC? I had no trouble soloing the biggest baddies focusing completely on HP so I never really gave it a whole lot of thought). Since AC mechanics are different on P99, this is a discussion that would require tons of parsing and hypotheticals, so I'm ignoring it for a reason.

Edit 2: Shield AC is the exception. As a shaman, you should always be wearing a shield with as much AC as you can get. Throw that PKT away, brah.

[Trademaster]

You get to award points to yourself?

[Rahnza]

Yes, because I am an EverQuest champion.

[FireEmblem86]

Who's to say they'll use the same amount of mana? I'd almost guarantee someone who maxes HP will fight differently than someone who maxes wis.
There's no way to say either one is better with hypothetical situations.

Level a shaman to 50.
Max wis.
I'll max hp.
We can kill shit all day long and count who kills more.

So he has more mana, and thus he USES more mana in each fight?

What?

That was never stated. The fact is that it takes more time to regen 1500 mana than it does to regen 1000 mana.

I guess it's stated now, though.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that it's better to max out your mana rather than your HP. I think the logic is slightly flawed. Your logic with that is horribly flawed, though.

Now, my problem with the logic of 1500 HP vs. 1000 HP and canni'ing down to 500 and having to wait is this: Let's assume you use an average of 250 HP per fight. 1000 HP guy fights a total of 20 guys before going and getting back to full HP/full mana (for one reason or another). 1500 HP guy can fight 22 guys in about the same amount of time. He'll gain exp roughly 10% faster than 1000 HP guy.

[Swishahouse]

My point is as far as solo/main slower role goes for me its more of a Mana vs HP/AC not AC vs HP hence why I run with only 1765M similar ~1200HP yet around 100ac more than the others have shown.

[Jayko]

It's pretty situational which one of these you're stacking...what you're doing should dictate which gear you're wearing, and I keep a set for each.

I have a set of HP/mana stacked gear that I normally wear in raids (PKT, Djarn's, HBC, etc 1450 hp 2350 mana, mid 700s ac? unbuffed), a set of high ac high hp gear with a shield that I use for full roles in planar where I'm getting hit by a ton of 48-52 mobs (drops me 200+ mana?) and I'm working on a set of high dex gear that drops mana for dex / hp as I recently got a Barbarian Spirist Hammer which is just silly DPS.

I get use out of all three sets. Using a shield and stacking anything but mana in the top end raids is a joke. Stack all the AC you want, the bosses in Sky are going to shred you if you pull aggro before anyone even lands a greater heal. I make sure I have ~200 wis, a couple shy is no problem, and crank straight mana/hp afterwards. Most of the fights don't last long enough for me to run out of mana, but hp doesn't do much for you either as you simply don't NEED to canni and there aren't AEs going off in Sky. AE Mobs you're stacking resists so it throws a whole 'nother wrinkle.

I'd say your best bet if you're trying to build a well rounded set is to stack wis to about 185 or so if you're a barb and then just take whatever piece gives you the most of either hp or mana. If I have the choice between 30 hp and 30 mana I'll generally take the the hp. Due to the relative size of the pools, 30hp is a larger upgrade than 30 mana. I wear a Djarn's and an HBC full time because it's just difficult to find that much HP in other slots.

-Jayko
50 Barb Shaman <Dark Ascension>

[Messianic]

Yes, because I am an EverQuest champion.

+1

[thefloydian]

So what should I put my points into at creation? Stamina?

[quellren]

I would go wis

stam points have terrible returns on shaman. you could dump 25 points into stam at creation and have like 50 more hps at lvl 50. 25 wis will net you a good fistful of mana however.

[thefloydian]

Thanks, quellren

[Skope]

I've weighed in on other discussions and it seems somewhat redundant doing it here but here goes:

Capping your wisdom as a shaman isn't difficult. Capping your wisdom as a MELEE shaman is a bit more difficult. I've always been a champion of sticking your points into wisdom at start because i actually favor the melee shaman. In terms of gear, you're allowed more flexibility if you actually go wisdom rather than stamina. As was stated, return on sta>hp for shamans isn't anything to look forward to (it's actually quite pathetic) and your items that add pure +hp will always outnumber it by far (a single item can double the +25 points into stam at beginning but having +25 wis means you get to wear more +hp/ac/dex items, because let's face it, can you name a single item with a load of wis that a melee shaman should be wearing?).

In classic, melee shamans are somewhat gimp. The gear they get is decent but not fantastic and the spell list is crippled by a major lack of torpor. What the pure +hp boasters forget to mention is that as a shaman you can help with heals after you malo/slow/cripple. What? You mean I have to use my mana after that? yes!! If your mana pool is too low you will quickly realize it in a raid setting where you find that you're wasting time clicking that JBB when you could be healing. If you run out of mana mid-way through the fight then that time wasted cannibalizing you could have been throwing out more heals. Druid/shaman heals provide a fantastic buffer between the cleric CHs and come kunark people won't be looking your way for DPS.

Generally speaking, a raid shaman will want a good balance of +hp/mana and a healthy amount of resists -- the latter goes without saying. A melee/solo shaman will want a more favorable amount of +hp/ac/dex than wis/mana (though this can also depend on the mob that you're fighting).

I'm a champion of multiple gear sets. Remember, shamans are very versatile and in order to fill those roles you need quite a bit of gear. +resist raid gear (mana/hp), a +hp/ac set and even a +cha set. Right now i fluctuate between 175ish wis and 200 depending on whether i'm wearing the tank gear or the +wis stuff, all the while wearing a full black sapphire set and wielding a barbarian spiritist's hammer. This means that at I have enough mana to heal and enough dex (190ish?) to get in there and throw in some great DPS even while wearing the wisdom stuff.

[Rahnza]

Stamina return for shamans isn't that bad at all. They're not pure casters.

[karsten]

once again reiker and droxx are correct and everyone else is incorrect


Emo Kids, putting everyone else to shame since 2009

[Gris]

What exactly is the hp return per point of stamina for shamans at levels 50 and 60?

Edit: Searched around a bit and found an answer in an old Magelo thread (http://eq.magelo.com/forum/messages.jspa?topic=21&page=1).

The relevant part of the formula there boils down to STA*LVL*MOD/300=HP(from stamina). The priest modifier is 15, so 1 point of stamina gives LVL/20 points of HP. That's 2.5 hp/sta at 50 and 3 hp/sta at 60. This info is from a post-Velious thread, but it seems to hold true for my lvl 42 shaman on P99, stamina items give the same hp as predicted.