Is screen sharing boxing?

[Wabic]

If playing a character consists of the input and output for that character, then using a screen sharing program to see other characters' output is "playing" the output component of that character. Should this be considered boxing when a person is able to see the output from multiple character accounts?

I'm not trying to accuse anyone and I don't judge anyone who does it currently since it's within the rules.

[Zoesha]

like teamviewer? It's like borderline boxing and probably bannable tbh.

[Baler]

it's boxing when you're playing two characters on the same server. No matter the method.
You can play 1 char on blue and 1 char on red. But not 2 on blue or 2 on red.
1 person per 1 character logged into a p99 server.

The question i think you're asking,. is it okay to watch someone else play their own single character. Yeah otherwise watching streams on twitch while playing would be ban-able.
Just make sure you have zero input capabilities on their game, otherwise it's ban-able.

[maurilax]

I think the more nefarious part of the question is...

If i am the tracker for a spawn can i share my screen with 100 other people and then those 100 people play their own characters but can see that the mob the tracker is tracking spawned.

Another nuance. I am playing a character and my friend turns on his pc and starts streaming. so now i am watching my character and his stream (assume there is no delay) and telling him what buttons to push, that illegal?

Another good one daladen mentioned. I turn on my work pc and log in a tracker for some mob e.g. Verina tomb. I then go home and leave that tracker on with an sms program to text me when it spawns. I then log in from home to kill this mob. since I am only 1 person playing at home and cannot possibly play the other toon is this illegal? What if my friend is the one who leaves his pc on instead of me doing it at work?

[Ssouky]

I petitionned to ask if I could "play" through Teamviewer, but got no answer.

Since the dll is seen as a virus by my corporate laptop, I can't play on various occasions. I wanted to be able to camp simple camps since with TV, the input is all messed up and you can't really move. You can sit, stand, cast, chat, but all the move keys are not properly working. However, typically, it's enought for an AC camp, PS camp or whatever static spawn with no agro around.

Without ruling, I didn't do it. But it'd like one :)

[Coridan]

If you are telling him what buttons to push, I assume you are teaching a newbie, that is not two-boxing.

[Wabic]

I think the more nefarious part of the question is...

If i am the tracker for a spawn can i share my screen with 100 other people and then those 100 people play their own characters but can see that the mob the tracker is tracking spawned.



This is what motivated my question.

[maurilax]

This is what motivated my question.

I know Sirken has mentioned many times on stream that he thinks it is despicable (my words not his) but I dont think he for sure said its bannable. also how is it enforceable.

What if instead of screen sharing i setup a web cam in my house and point it at the monitor?

What if I am at a lan party and get up to use the bathroom and someone is watching my screen.

its pretty subjective if you ask me.

[Swish]

"how else can i get around this box rule but still box? suggestions plz"

[Bboboo]

Even if it is, how would you even go about enforcing it?

Also if twitch had no delay would that be considered boxing if the streamer was tracking a raid target?

[maurilax]

"how else can i get around this box rule but still box? suggestions plz"

Its fair to ask for clarification on some of these, I know for sure people log on to chardok accept and invite to exp and then afk forever. when you are talking about 30 day bans id rather be very clear on the rules even if it exposes the loopholes than not talk about them and watch people get banned for shit they didnt know was illegal.

[Wabic]

The enforceability question applies equally to boxing in general, and is outside the scope of my question.

[Zoesha]

This is what motivated my question.

There is not a rule against using twitch or livestream. Sirken himself streams through twitch. You are allowed to stream to as many people as you want which can include tracking mobs so you guild could potentially see. You cannot however use a program that gives you the ability to control someone else's screen to play eq from another computer while you currently have your own eq instance going. Hope this helps answer your question.

[Madbad]

1 player,1 pc

[Swish]

Its fair to ask for clarification on some of these, I know for sure people log on to chardok accept and invite to exp and then afk forever. when you are talking about 30 day bans id rather be very clear on the rules even if it exposes the loopholes than not talk about them and watch people get banned for shit they didnt know was illegal.

Sure, but the rules are crystal clear... just play one account, on one computer.

1 account
1 computer

How is there any middle ground to that? If you want a live feed for the EC tunnel there's ahungry.com/eqauctions

If you really want to multibox, play blue as well as red, or try PEQ, can 10 box if you like <3

[Taryth]

The levels that people on this server will go to for any sort of competitive advantage are insane. Not very classic and I don't see what the reason for playing on a classic server in this fashion is.

Hoop kills, for instance. Where is the fun in that? Meta gaming to the point that the game is no longer fun . . . it's just strange. Like working a job you're not being paid for.

[Wabic]

There is not a rule against using twitch or livestream. Sirken himself streams through twitch. You are allowed to stream to as many people as you want which can include tracking mobs so you guild could potentially see. You cannot however use a program that gives you the ability to control someone else's screen to play eq from another computer while you currently have your own eq instance going. Hope this helps answer your question.

Right, I mentioned myself that it's currently within the rules. I think it's worth noting that Sirken doesn't stream on red specifically because the extra vision provides an unfair advantage to those watching and a disadvantage to those being watched. I think the potential for unfairness exists on blue as well, although the cases are much narrower. Sirken would have to be looking right at a spawn point when a tracked mob pops or something.

If we define playing as controlling both the input and output, I'm fine with that, too.

[Oleris]

nothing says classic like bind sighting someone, starting a skype call and allowing your guild to watch the spawn location for 16 hours guys.

[Itap]

Not classic. You sit on that verina spawn for days like everyone else did in 2000

[Purp]

Another good one daladen mentioned. I turn on my work pc and log in a tracker for some mob e.g. Verina tomb. I then go home and leave that tracker on with an sms program to text me when it spawns. I then log in from home to kill this mob. since I am only 1 person playing at home and cannot possibly play the other toon is this illegal? What if my friend is the one who leaves his pc on instead of me doing it at work?

why wouldn't you just leave computer on at work with private twitch stream to see when the mob spawns? don't need sms text program :rolleyes:

[Nightbear]

So is bind sighting on a tracker boxing? lmao

Not boxing, you are not controlling their movements or actions if all you are doing is watching a screen

[Wabic]

So is bind sighting on a tracker boxing? lmao



No, because that output was generated by your own character.

[maurilax]

Sure, but the rules are crystal clear... just play one account, on one computer.

1 account
1 computer

How is there any middle ground to that? If you want a live feed for the EC tunnel there's ahungry.com/eqauctions

If you really want to multibox, play blue as well as red, or try PEQ, can 10 box if you like <3

Yea I agree and go to great lengths annoying my friends to log on and do shit in order not to box. I still think there are loopholes that are interesting to consider especially when you factor in the inability to enforce some of these.

I think my biggest concern is around the 1person/1account/1computer VS 0person/1account/1computer because EQ is a very afk friendly game and I dont see how they could possibly enforce this correctly.

[Wabic]

In the case of screen sharing, you're looking at the output from two accounts on two computers.

[Crom]

If playing a character consists of the input and output for that character, then using a screen sharing program to see other characters' output is "playing" the output component of that character. Should this be considered boxing when a person is able to see the output from multiple character accounts?

I'm not trying to accuse anyone and I don't judge anyone who does it currently since it's within the rules.

Yes it is boxing, if you can controll ANYTHING on that screen, if it's just a stream then no it isn't boxing. (anything=mouse or keyboard in anyway that can send commands to the screen)

[Haynar]

If you logged in both chars, and noone is sitting at one. Its boxing. If someone else logged in a char, that is being watched by you while u play a diff char, and noone is sitting controlling other char. Its boxing. Dont play the its a twitch stream game, if the ultimate purpose was to have a char logged in, that noone intends to sit there and play.

It sounds like you are trying to bend the rules to box.

H

[Wabic]

If you logged in both chars, and noone is sitting at one. Its boxing. If someone else logged in a char, that is being watched by you while u play a diff char, and noone is sitting controlling other char. Its boxing. Dont play the its a twitch stream game, if the ultimate purpose was to have a char logged in, that noone intends to sit there and play.

It sounds like you are trying to bend the rules to box.

H

Hey Haynar, I really appreciate the response! I don't do it myself, but from what I understand the tracker shares their screen remotely with everyone in the guild and may or may not be AFK while others watch.

From the sound of it, they would have to be controlling the other char for it to be considered boxing. Thank you for the clarification.

[Haynar]

If a guild is running a tracker, that noone is playing, it is likely someone is guilty of boxing. Someone logged it in physically. Having a seperate person log it in, who had no intent to play, is circumventing the rules.

Unless the tracker is someone who does not log in a diff char, u may be ok. But based on how ppl try to get around the rules here, probably not.

If tracker goes LD, who logs it back in? Someoen who got on server on another account? Or someone called, who doesn't actually play?

Its possible to do in a way thats not boxing. But if noone is sitting there, and whole guild watches it, and takes action based on that screen? Then they all are guilty of boxing, and should be banned.

[maurilax]

If a guild is running a tracker, that noone is playing, it is likely someone is guilty of boxing. Someone logged it in physically. Having a seperate person log it in, who had no intent to play, is circumventing the rules.

Unless the tracker is someone who does not log in a diff char, u may be ok. But based on how ppl try to get around the rules here, probably not.

If tracker goes LD, who logs it back in? Someoen who got on server on another account? Or someone called, who doesn't actually play?

Its possible to do in a way thats not boxing. But if noone is sitting there, and whole guild watches it, and takes action based on that screen? Then they all are guilty of boxing, and should be banned.

Cool and agreed.

Not being a jerk but does Dev ruling = CSR ruling?

[Rararboker]

Nope

[Haynar]

My opinion is not same as csr. I am actually very pro boxing.

Csr says one person. One computer. One player (per server).

The general opinion on screen sharing is negative from csr. What will happen if caught screen sharing an afk char with guild? Well, maybe we will see soon.

[maurilax]

My opinion is not same as csr. I am actually very pro boxing.

Csr says one person. One computer. One player (per server).

The general opinion on screen sharing is negative from csr. What will happen if caught screen sharing an afk char with guild? Well, maybe we will see soon.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

[fastboy21]

My opinion is not same as csr. I am actually very pro boxing.

Csr says one person. One computer. One player (per server).

The general opinion on screen sharing is negative from csr. What will happen if caught screen sharing an afk char with guild? Well, maybe we will see soon.

In principle, I agree that it should be against the rules to face track a mob by screen sharing information...but how can this really be policed? If someone wants to do this covertly I can not think of how you would stop them other than relying on someone in the guild to snitch them out.

[Detoxx]

Lol this thread!

[Pint]

Inb4 /petition trackerX is screen sharing, better come afk check him!

[Swish]

It sounds like you are trying to bend the rules to box.

[Jimjam]

Is the character being 'played'?

If we were just watching someone chain die I'd say no. Seeing as the main part of playing a tracker is watching for spawns and raising alarms it seems the character is effectively being 'played'.

We have a rule for multi boxing... do we need one for the opposite (1 character with >1 players)?!

[fastboy21]

Is the character being 'played'?

If we were just watching someone chain die I'd say no. Seeing as the main part of playing a tracker is watching for spawns and raising alarms it seems the character is effectively being 'played'.

We have a rule for multi boxing... do we need one for the opposite (1 character with >1 players)?!

considering the extent to which it could be abused at this stage in p99...imagine every guild having a "dummy" rogue logged in at all times at all important spawns with everyone just screen watching. it sounds bazaar, but it would go that way.

[FatMice]

Well, maybe we will see soon.

Anyone want to start bets on who will get the first hammer hit? Guild? Player? Mob?

Oh wait... this doesn't happen. Does it?!

[Thulack]

I can see it now "WTS Screenshare. Will sit afk on tracking point so you can see when the mob spawns 100k !!"

[Crom]

In principle, I agree that it should be against the rules to face track a mob by screen sharing information...but how can this really be policed? If someone wants to do this covertly I can not think of how you would stop them other than relying on someone in the guild to snitch them out.

no need to police, just have an auto DC feature if the char hasn't moved or typed anything in 1h

[maurilax]

no need to police, just have an auto DC feature if the char hasn't moved or typed anything in 1h

not classic

[Champion_Standing]

The sad lengths you nerds will go to cheat on an emulated elf sim.

[Thulack]

The sad lengths you nerds will go to cheat on an emulated elf sim.

It's not about cheating. Its about people wanting to see how far they can push something before it gets them in trouble. They dont want to be in trouble but want to be able to do anything and everything up until that fine line. The issue happens when someone does something that borders that line and then someone else gets their panties in a ruffle and demand answers. Then GM's dont help the situation by giving undetailed rulings on things which in turn just lets this sort of behavior continue. If GM's sat down for a day or 2 to hash out all of these rules or loopholes it would save them days worth of petitions and discussions about said loopholes or workarounds. In the end the GM's just make it harder on themselves by not laying out all the rules plain as day so no moron can sit there and say "well it wasnt in the rules"

[fastboy21]

no need to police, just have an auto DC feature if the char hasn't moved or typed anything in 1h

yah, because you can't macro a keystroke every 30 minutes to reset the timer.

there are legit reasons to stay afk in classic EQ...throwing that out makes the solution worse than the problem.

[Tasslehofp99]

this thread is funny


Next idea: lets ban any voice chat comm programs too please they're ruining my immersion.

[Ele]

If you logged in both chars, and noone is sitting at one. Its boxing. If someone else logged in a char, that is being watched by you while u play a diff char, and noone is sitting controlling other char. Its boxing. Dont play the its a twitch stream game, if the ultimate purpose was to have a char logged in, that noone intends to sit there and play.

It sounds like you are trying to bend the rules to box.

H

Time to ban all those Chardok proxies. :D

[Gadwen]

I was hoping this thread was about playing EQ split screen

[Chrig]

If the owner of that account is not on any other character, than fuck no it shouldn't be bannable. If that's what he wants to do with his EQ character so be it. If he is on a different account than fuck yes ban him. It should be that simple tbh.

[Madbad]

just ban OP now imo

[Pringles]

Ban SMS IMO, SMS batphones not classic. Need pagers, shits classic.

[ObooReturns]

The sad lengths you nerds will go to cheat on an emulated elf sim.

Who is cheating? The guy has questions and wants them answered before he takes any risks. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[ArumTP]

Sources say Rampage uses screen share

Now send this thread to RnF..

[Gimp]

Sources say Rampage uses screen share

Prove it.

[Oleris]

Sources say Rampage uses screen share

Now send this thread to RnF..

sirken said in his stream that people use bind sight on an afk tracker and that person then skypes the call to entire guild so everyone can watch the spawn location. No idea if it was rampage, tmo, IB or what.

[Wabic]

Thanks everyone for all the discussion. AFAIK it's currently legit. As others have pointed out, Sirken wouldn't be able to stream if it wasn't. I think Sirken's stream that Oleris mentioned was the first I'd heard about it.

On one hand, I think you're "playing" a very significant part of another character by remotely connecting to another computer, viewing their output and using it to make decisions. That involves two boxes and two accounts.

On the other hand, it's been compared to SMS, voice chat and all the other "not classic" communication methods we use that are not banned. So, it's valid to describe it not as "playing" that other character but simply communicating with them.

So, I'm still somewhat on the fence with how I feel about it, but leaning toward the latter.

[FatMice]

Sources say Rampage uses screen share

Now send this thread to RnF..

This is hilarious. 6:25am. Is this your morning cup of joe?

[Haynar]

sirken said in his stream that people use bind sight on an afk tracker and that person then skypes the call to entire guild so everyone can watch the spawn location. No idea if it was rampage, tmo, IB or what.

This.

Whats gonna get u busted, is if its discovered the afk char was logged in by someone playing another char. And there never was a diff person playing the tracker. How would they get caught? No clue. Maybe afk trackers will start magically getting disconnected from time to time. Don't care. Nerds.

H

[Oleris]

just make sure to do it 15 seconds before the dragon spawns

[Crom]

Maybe afk trackers will start magically getting disconnected from time to time.
H

please add this, would open up so many camps.

[Champion_Standing]

Who is cheating? The guy has questions and wants them answered before he takes any risks. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

All cheating scum

[Ele]

sirken said in his stream that people use bind sight on an afk tracker and that person then skypes the call to entire guild so everyone can watch the spawn location. No idea if it was rampage, tmo, IB or what.

If you don't escalate the VP sock situation each week, then you are losing.

[Susano]

Remove variance. Problem solved. It's not classic anyhow.

[Haynar]

I agree with no variance. It only gives an illusion of being better.

[cormag]

You have gotten better at Poopsocking! (200)

[Mulek]

Variance isn't terrible except that it should go from 8 hours either way to 2.

[kaev]

Time to ban all those Chardok proxies. :D

bras

[skipdog]

If the owner of that account is not on any other character, than fuck no it shouldn't be bannable. If that's what he wants to do with his EQ character so be it. If he is on a different account than fuck yes ban him. It should be that simple tbh.

[Pint]

Lets just remove all raid mobs again and make this a game about role playing in city zones and helping noobs slay Orcs imo

[Ele]

Lets just remove all raid mobs again and make this a game about role playing in city zones and helping noobs slay Orcs imo

Yea verily.

[Ravager]

Lets just remove all raid mobs again and make this a game about role playing in city zones and helping noobs slay Orcs imo

This, or reduce the level cap to 30.