Velious FoTM?

[slowpoke68]

Hello all. Anyone care to try their hand at a bit of divination?

Will there be any classes that will see a spike in population when Velious releases due to new abilities, spells or changes in mechanics?

Are there any classes that will see a significant population drops because of the same reasons?

How will the eventual elimination of hybrid penalties affect their numbers?

What do you think?

[Troxx]

We'll see a lot more hybrids - rangers especially. Very fun class, but the penalty is atrocious.

[PVP Cleric]

Definitely expect to see more paladins, rangers, and shadowknights. No more xp penalties, better skillcaps, new spells, disciplines, and cheaper kunark twink gear? Yeah. Hybrids will be a LOT more appealing to main or alt.

Might see more wizards as well? There will be a wider selection of zones to quad to level in, and wizards gain translocates, bane spells, flowing thought item(s), etc.

[Swish]

Problem with paladins/SKs, they're only good for the tank role... going to be a long lfg line - and worth saying again, the hybrid penalty doesn't disappear the night Velious is released, it's further down the patch line.

[dafier]

I don't recall.

Rangers actually turn in to a halfway decent DPS, right?

What I do remember is Rangers becoming AWESOME in PoP, but I don't remember if Velious had that much of an impact for their end game raiding.

On live, in PoP, I made a Ranger alt and had a blast. (Still I used him only for tracking, lol)

[TarukShmaruk]

Wizards are already valued in raids and Velious doesn't do anything but make them good for raids.

FT gear is basically all end game and only helps a little bit.

IIRC Wizards only got decent in groups with PoP because of the improved familiars, AAs, and Iceflame of E'ci allows you to do mana efficient DPS with Ancient : Greater Destruction of Ice and the other ice spell I can't remember the name of.

[Daldaen]

Bards gain Occlusion, easierish epic when Trakanon is triggered, and off handing epic in late Velious. Remains very viable in group/raid. Loses EXP penalty a month in. Expect to see a rise.

Clerics gain Aegolism, and Celestial Healing (44). Increases value on raids as CH chains become the norm and more clerics are needed than were for 32k HP dragons. Groups always will want. Expect to see more people PLing clerics to raid on so that their CH chain is of adequate depth.

Druids gain PotG, ATK/FR debuffs, indoor stun. Also Track increases hugely and snares/roots stack. Druid becomes more powerful but still is weak against summoning mobs solo. Easier to solo come Velious, Group desirability is reasonable in zones they can charm for DPS, Raids they stagnate beyond buff/debuff bot. There won't be much increase even though they gain nice abilities.

Enchanters gain GoB, and a duration mana drain. With higher level areas they lose charming utility in some high end locations but they are the gods of soloing Velketors because non KoS. Groups desire them a bit less atleast in areas with unmezzable mobs. On raids they either charm for DPS or they are buff bots. Expect to see less Enchanters overall.

Magicians gain "easier" epic and Monster Summoning. They will be more desired on raids for mod rods and CotHing during pulls/mobilizing. I don't see much movement in the popularity of the class beyond a few guild mages created to CotH.

Monks gain more gear, are already very OP, get triple attack late Velious. Pulling is a bit more important in Velious and monks are leading that charge. I don't expect a huge boom in monks cause they already are dirt common.

Necromancers get the shaft. Snare/Root stacking is only thing they can look forward to IMO. Their spells blow, more mobs summon. They have some okay kiting locations but nothing great at the near 60 end. Grouping they are always a viable option if played well. Raiding they are twitch bots. Expect to see a minor decrease in the class.

Paladins get a solid HP buff and HoT. Best group tank and gains some raid viability, however in the day of defensive they won't tank any meaningful raid boss in Velious. They are Rampage tanks and add tanks on raids. Removal of hybrid penalty and more spells. Expect to see an increase by virtue of hybrid penalty removal.

Rangers epic gets easier so more hasted/earth caller Rangers, and they gain some ATK buffs, Trueshot/Weaponshield disc, some low level spells like animal fear, and the removal of hybrid penalty makes them an attractive alt option. They increase soloing power with fear kiting (irrelevant for twinks cause fungi), grouping they continue being versatily but not the best DPS, okayish off tanks in easy areas but hard Velious locations you will want a knight. On raids Weaponshield adds a nice dimension to the class and adds a valuable strategic option. Expect to see these increase.

Rogues stay top tier DPS, they don't see many gains in Velious especially considering how easy their epic was to obtain, it's nearly impossible to replace. Group/raid viability stays the same. Expect no change here.

Shadowknights gain Deaths Peace. This spell alone is huge for pulling and SKing in general. It makes them more valuable on groups and raids in pull teams. They also get rid of the exp penalty and gain some Necro spells. Expect increase because of exp penalty disappearing

Shamans gain Focus, and some other meh spells. In the age of Slow being OP, Velious is about the antithesis of this. Due to that the class will be booming. Torpor Shamans should be able to hold their own at several camps no other class can solo. Group viability is increased as mobs live longer and slows are more valuable. Raid viability they remain buff bots and DPS healers. Expect to see no change because so many already exist

Warriors gain much better gear and in an age of hard hitting bosses, defensive disciplines are required. Raiding guild's will need a few hearty warriors to cycle through on tough targets. Beyond that, they are inferior to Knights for Group purposes. Expecting no real change in class.

Wizards get Bane nukes and due to this become top tier DPS. Coupled with new buffs for mana regen and flowing thought, they will be crucial on high AC targets. Soloing they get more locations to quad, Grouping they remain terrible and Raiding they jump up from very high desire to very very high (just below clerics). I expect to see some increase in wizard creation. Wizards that get logged in, burn their mana bar and log out to another character to finish the last 60% of the fight on a raid boss.


Is that everyone?

So more Hybrids because EXP penalty removed, more Cleric bots for raiding, more Wizard bots for raiding, and maybe some Shamans because Slow is OP. Everything else stays pretty stagnant. Druids may slightly increase with better tracking and snare/root stack. Necros probably decrease because they gain the least in Velious IMO among casters.

[Lune]

I don't recall.

Rangers actually turn in to a halfway decent DPS, right?

What I do remember is Rangers becoming AWESOME in PoP, but I don't remember if Velious had that much of an impact for their end game raiding.

On live, in PoP, I made a Ranger alt and had a blast. (Still I used him only for tracking, lol)

Rangers are already halfway decent DPS, that isn't really their problem. But yes their dps and tankability are modestly improved in Velious.

Most people who roll knights in Velious are going to play them until about 45 or 50 and then stop, just like most people who rolled knights in Kunark. Knights have always really deterred people once they get past the twinkage and learn their place in the world, watch monks and warrs run circles around them, etc. Penalty didn't help but I think that was only part of it. Can be hard to find groups when any given group only has a maximum of one spot for your role, and it can be filled by warriors, monks, rangers, and other knights.

FOTM is still gonna be monks and shamans, because those are very fun, very powerful classes. And honestly, I'm pretty sure monks get as much or more improvement in Velious than rangers or knights do (due to triple attack and itemization changes), which is disgusting.

[eisley]

Wizards are incredible in Velious, thanks in no small part to bard groups spamming mana inject w/ epics, and necros twitching, and mod rods. On anything they can Bane nuke they crush DPS.

Warriors also become a lot more desirable due to a massive influx of great proc weapons, and disc defensive is not just good, its A Problem.

Daldaen's list is great, every class gains certain benefits, but if I had to choose I think warriors and wizards see the biggest jump in status

[Daldaen]

I argue clerics hold that title. They don't really *gain* anything at the top end. But the end games paradigm shifts.

We go from 32k HP dragons where you cast 4-5 DLs before the mob dies... To 5-10 minute long fights where you need CHs landing every 2-3 seconds.

The requirement on any given dragon for clerics right now is like 1-3~. On Velious you may as well not show up without 5-6 clerics on most good targets. On many you will want 8-12 to cover a 6-8 man CH chain and a 2-4 man team covering rampage tanks. Plus AE damage.

Warriors you do need some of, but just 4~ or so should suffice, most guilds usually stacked 1-2 warriors with a ton of gear so that healing them was easier.

Wizards get huge gains but aren't make or break, they just speed up fights.

[eisley]

Very good point about Clerics actually. I agree completely. Also, the class becomes hella fun.

[Pint]

The current monk infestation will explode and we'll have a full on epidemic

[webrunner5]

Even in normal groups, not even raids, you are Going to NEED a Cleric in a lot of zones, and I really doubt anyone is going to turn down having a Warrior join also. :D

DPS is going to be a lot bigger deal than it is now. I don't see people rushing to invite a Wizard that is afk, OOM, no more than they will want a AFK, one song wonder Bard in a group either in Velious. :o

A lot of groups in Velious are going to be a hell of a lot more serious and picky members wise. There will be lists on who is worth a crap and who is not for sure. Terrible pullers, crappy CC'ers, afk'ers will be weeded out in a hurry. :eek: Velious will be hard mode, not easy mode like now. :p

And like it or not, a Ranger with their track, is going to be a NEEDED addition in a group to see what named mobs are up and where. You want good gear and loot a Ranger is the one to make that happen a lot more than not.

[eisley]

I disagree, afk wizards and bards will continue to be highly sought after

[slowpoke68]

Wow, what interesting reading that was! Thanks all for your insight.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Shamans, the best class at most everything, become even more god like in velious with slightly less shittier buffing (yay focus). Definitely see people actually maining their shamans. Raids are actually long enough to need buffing mid raid and pre slowing shaman suicide is real. Definitely more shamans actually playing their shamans in high game.

edit: Clerics more needed, but having done this a few times, raiding cleric burnout is insane in the CH mandatory era of velious through pop. That guy's wife who kinda plays a cleric because he needed a healer doesn't like getting the guild's hate focused like a pinpoint because she missed her CH by 2 seconds and now we're waiting on discs for another vyemm shot.

[Danth]

That guy's wife who kinda plays a cleric because he needed a healer doesn't like getting the guild's hate focused like a pinpoint because she missed her CH by 2 seconds

Hah, truth there. That's why the wifey has refused for more than a decade now to play her own cleric in a raid setting.

Every guild needs clerics, and with no boxing, not every guild will have enough of them. Some guilds will implode because of that problem. That's just due to complete heal, though, and as always the Cleric will remain the class that some folks grudgingly pick just to ensure themselves a raid spot.

If you want raw power, pick a Monk or Shaman, as others have said. That doesn't really change from Kunark. If you pick a Shaman, have fun dealing with the other bunch of Shamans who have dreams of solo'ing the same things you want to.

Danth

[eisley]

there are plenty of annoying sides to playing a shaman that make them undesirable to play for certain types of players.

[Kender]

Monks gain more gear, are already very OP, get triple attack late Velious. Pulling is a bit more important in Velious and monks are leading that charge. I don't expect a huge boom in monks cause they already are dirt common.


the patch that brought monks triple attack was basically the last patch before luclin

if they include this patch they will also need to add stonebrunt mountains as that was patched in 2 months before triple attack for monks

[Laugher]

Interesting, I would not have thought of clr/wiz being two of the classes that pick up in pop for velious, would have thought hybrids (if not for any other reason then still for that tradeable dragon claw 1hs) and monks because monk pants and easier haste hehe

[douglas1999]

Playing a shaman was a lot more fun on live when not everybody knew how ridiculously overpowered they were, and they weren't being mass-produced off the shaman assembly line, epic in hand. But that's the social experiment that is P99 for ya.

[douglas1999]

Ideal P99 server:

-Slightly longer timeline (maybe 1 year per expansion, I always thought each era could use more time to breath)
-No recharging
-No epic MQ's (other MQ's still okay)
-No corpsing lore items

This would literally be the best combination of classic EQ with necessary stipulations to maintain classic SPIRIT. I will continue dreaming, but hey..

[eisley]

I dont expect hybrids to pick up much. Knights especially were still really bad in Velious. Luckily the patch adding knight one handers and buffing two handers across the board helped, and the addition of tunare sword was massive, it is by FAR the best weapon available, nothing else is even a contender, except for Vulak two hander which, like all Vulak weapons, was comically rare. It was around one weapon per month, that being 8+ kills. No bueno. However, knight/2h/tunare&vulak were things that happened around a year into the xpac.

As tanks, nothing ever changed, it was a frustrating time to be a shadowknight. The prevailing thought is that knights are better group tanks, but sadly this is not at all the case, aside from exp groups. Evey group boss fights are long, and disc defensive is just an unstoppable force. Monks will continue to be the second tank choice, as they gain massive AC from items, actually remaining the best undisc'd tank.

The fact that "exp penalty removal" is being heralded as the best change for hybrids, says a lot about what they gain in velious.

I was likely one of the better geared SKs in the game at the end of Velious, and it was a frustrating experience. They do gain some nice things, but other classes get amazing things. I remember feeling very left out. I still loved being an SK and would never have changed it.

To be fair, Willsapper and Tunare sword in particular make a knight dramatically better, and paladins become solid group healers, and SKs will be valuable pullers if sneak is ever fixed. Both retain their presence in exp groups and for easier content, but warriors catch up in aggro thanks to many readily available huge aggro weapons.

But, this is not live, and things may be dramatically different here, which I certainly hope is the case.