Preliminary Velious Parsing

[fiveeauxfour]

Anyone care to share parses from dragons in velious? I'd like to gauge relative class parsing. I replaced the names with their respective class or I suppose you could just put the class next to the name.


Dozekar the Cursed in 359s, 307k @856dps
---Rogue 21k @60dps (6.96%)
---Monk 19k @54dps (6.14%)
---Rogue 17k @49dps (5.65%)
---Rogue 17k @47dps (5.45%)
---Monk 17k @47dps (5.45%)
---Warrior 17k @47dps (5.44%)
---Warrior 16k @46dps (5.35%)
---Rogue 16k @44dps (5.05%)
---Rogue 15k @46dps (4.98%)
---Warrior 8k @43dps (2.51%) -> Main Tank
---Warrior 15k @42dps (4.95%)
---Monk 15k @42dps (4.8%)
---Rogue 14k @40dps (4.49%)
---Monk 13k @36dps (4.08%)
---Monk 12k @34dps (3.93%)
---Monk 12k @33dps (3.83%)
---Rogue 11k @30dps (3.46%)
---Monk 10k @28dps (3.21%)
---Shadow Knight 9k @26dps (2.99%)
---Monk 8k @23dps (2.69%)
---Warrior 6k @18dps (2.09%)
---Monk 6k @18dps (2.04%)

Gozzrem in 144s, 93k @645dps
---Monk 9k @63dps (9.36%)
---Rogue 9k @61dps (9.37%)
---Monk 6k @50dps (6.7%)
---Warrior 7k @49dps (7.53%) -> Main Tank
---Rogue 7k @48dps (7.34%)
---Warrior 6k @43dps (6.68%)
---Warrior 5k @43dps (5.19%)
---Warrior 5k @37dps (5.66%)
---Monk 5k @37dps (5.62%)
---Monk 5k @36dps (5.56%)
---Rogue 5k @35dps (5.44%)
---Rogue 5k @33dps (5.09%)
---Ranger 4k @30dps (4.64%)

(These parses do not contain everyone who contributed to the fight, but rather the "meat" of the dps squad. No spell dmg is factored in.)

I'm not sure whats considered good dps on these fights, 50+? This was gathered from GamParse. All people who died during the fight were deleted and everyone on this list was in the fight for the same amount of time +/-20 seconds. 90% of these players are beta buffed.

Question: How does length of engage effect class distribution over parses?

[Ele]

One consideration that needs to be accounted for is the positioning of the parsing player. The hit boxes are HUGE and the person parsing can miss tons of hits from other players that are too far away.

The only way to get an accurate parse on a lot of the Velious encounters is to have each melee parse his/her own hits and report them. Unless the hit box is super small or everyone is piled on top of each other, including the MT, which doesn't make for a good encounter a lot of times.

[Daldaen]

The main tank should log most all melee hits, so should basically every DPS. As long as you are in melee range you can log others hits unless the hit box is enormous

[fiveeauxfour]

I'm leaning more towards Dald on this one. Yes some of the hitboxes are large but generally the melee squad is positioned close to each other to pin a drag in a wall or on one side pushing a cast.

[Raev]

Did you really have 9 monks show up? Anyway the variance between the best and worst monk (when presumably they were nearly identically geared) is quite large. Either you have some really bad monks, or your log was missing some hits.

[fiveeauxfour]

I looked over the hit logs and it seems to check out.

vvvv Doze vvvv
--- Rogue 21k @60dps (6.96%) 495 hits; dual wield
---Monk 19k @54dps (6.14%) -> 582 hits; dual wield
---Monk 17k @47dps (5.45%) -> 222 hits; 2hb
---Monk 15k @42dps (4.8%) -> 475 hits; dual wield
---Monk 13k @36dps (4.08%) -> 454 hits; dual wield
---Monk 12k @34dps (3.93%) -> 449 hits; dual wield
---Monk 10k @28dps (3.21%) -> 310 hits; 2hb

(on this doze fight, some people were going to the casters to get healed as they did not have any form of self healing. Obviously decreases their dps and increases their need to get reapers/wort pots.)

vvvv Gozz vvvv
---Rogue 9k @61dps (9.37%) 194 hits; dual wield
---Monk 9k @63dps (9.36%) 191 hits; dual wield
---Monk 6k @50dps (6.7%) 165 hits; 2hb
---Monk 6k @43dps (6.68%) 187 hits; dual wield
---Monk 5k @37dps (5.62%) 167 hits; dual wield
---Monk 5k @36dps (5.56%) 179 hits; dual wield


dw/2h discrimination based on max hit. Can't max hit 350+ with a SoS or Wu's.

[fiveeauxfour]

Actually self reporting dps is probably the best idea now that I think about it. While it is entirely possible that one individual is able to get the entire fight on his own parse, everyone having their own negates any problems in missing hits.

[Daldaen]

Again main tank is probably the best given the hitbox isn't enormous.

MT is in range for 100% of the encounter (unless you need to tank swap), he never moves out of range to heal, etc.

I do think that reporting of other players hits should have a widened range though. During later expansions atleast you could parse effectively with quite a large hitbox even with moving around.

[Rathnir]

Not to derail or hijack away from the melee parse, but shouldn't Bane wizards be crushing these numbers?

High end wizards already have mana pools 3600+. Bane costs 450 mana. 3600/450 = 8 Bane casts, for 16,000 damage. Which they could dump in 88 seconds, without GCD. 359 second fight, with Clarity 2, Brilliance, Protection of the Glade, Barrier of Force, you'd regen ~1357 mana, for 3 more casts, total of 22K.

This isn't counting Velious gear, flowing thought, specialization mana preservation, bard songs, mod rods, mana robes, death cycling for mana... I know AE dodging and other "real" variables would affect this (I prolly goofed the math somewhere), but won't tanks just Mallet/Prayer for agro and allow wizards to full burn almost instantly?

I'd be curious to see wizard parse numbers, if anyone has them. Magician and necromancer pets would be interesting as well, as on live they had extremely high attack values.

[fiveeauxfour]

/gu The Statue of Rallos Zek in 748s, 511k @684dps
--- Rogue 55k @77dps (10.75%)
--- Rogue 53k @73dps (10.37%)
--- Rogue 50k @69dps (9.76%)
--- Rogue 48k @66dps (9.43%)
--- Monk 40k @56dps (7.84%)
--- Monk 37k @51dps (7.26%)
--- Warrior 33k @46dps (6.41%)
--- Epic Mage Pet 32k @45dps (6.32%)
--- Epic Mage Pet 31k @46dps (6.06%)
--- Monk 30k @41dps (5.82%)


LOL rogue dps is crazy

[Kender]

casters can parse their own dps

also.. mages can "/pet leader" the pet will respond and let gamparse know to credit the dps to the mage

[Daldaen]

Good.

I'm very glad monks are mediocre. Maybe some of them will start realizing their role on raids is to pull and to gear for resists/HP!

But more seriously, you need to have the main tank parse and use some charmed pets. You will see damage shield is #1 DPS, #2 is charmed pet, #3 is bane wizards, #4 is rogues, then wizards, then monks, then Rangers, then warriors.

[fiveeauxfour]

yea man, monk dps isn't as OP as I was hoping =/

[fiveeauxfour]

/gu The Progenitor in 257s, 180k @702dps
--- Rogue 19k @79dps (10.32%)
--- Rogue 17k @74dps (9.57%)
--- Rogue 16k @68dps (9.03%)
--- Rogue 16k @73dps (8.96%)
--- Monk 16k @69dps (8.71%)
--- Monk 13k @59dps (7.38%)
--- Monk 13k @59dps (7.26%)
--- Epic Pet Mage 12k @49dps (6.39%)
--- Rogue 11k @49dps (6%)
--- Epic Pet Mage 11k @46dps (5.94%)

All these parses are standard raid buffs sans PA

[Daldaen]

Monk's will be more ridiculous with Avatar and at the very end Triple Attack. Plus weapons better than Wu's Fist of OP-in-Kunarkness.

But as I mentioned above, Damage Shield is #1 DPS in Velious if your MT and RTs are maxing it. Completely unresistable, guaranteed DMG is the best kind.

[fiveeauxfour]

The only upgrades for monks up the ratio to .85; currently Wu's fist sits at .73. The Wu's fist ratio will be still very good in velious. Bo staff/abashi's get to 42/35. While the upgrades do come, they are from NToV, Sleepers, and Tunare aka difficult content.

The parses will reveal the state of dps once that triple attack and 2hb rework comes out. But who knows when that is. 10-11 months after velious release could take who knows how long on p99. For the time being and the foreseeable future, rogues are king.

[Colgate]

abashi is 40/30 post upgrade

[pasi]

The only upgrades for monks up the ratio to .85; currently Wu's fist sits at .73. The Wu's fist ratio will be still very good in velious. Bo staff/abashi's get to 42/35. While the upgrades do come, they are from NToV, Sleepers, and Tunare aka difficult content.

The parses will reveal the state of dps once that triple attack and 2hb rework comes out. But who knows when that is. 10-11 months after velious release could take who knows how long on p99. For the time being and the foreseeable future, rogues are king.

Few things:

Gharns Rock was junk (6/13) for a while. Monks will have triple attack and the 2hb rework by the time it becomes 16/19. Fist of Lightning is offhand only. I assume that's what you meant by the .85.

Tunare doesn't drop Fist of Nature until Luclin.

Primal/Priceless fistwraps and knight 1handers aren't in at release either. You trade in Primal 1hbs for them.

I'd get comfortable with them Wu Fists; they're Velious weaponry as is.

[fiveeauxfour]

oh, so its worse than I thought in terms of weapon upgrades

[Colgate]

tunare was dropping fist of nature on beta server

idk if they removed it, doubt they did

[Raev]

It seems all of the TOV upgrades are in. So you can upgrade to 15/18, 16/19, or 40/30 2H.

I think when you combine dual 15/18 plus Avatar plus Call of the Predator you'll see way more damage than dual 16/22.

[Tecmos Deception]

It seems all of the TOV upgrades are in. So you can upgrade to 15/18, 16/19, or 40/30 2H.

I think when you combine dual 15/18 plus Avatar plus Call of the Predator you'll see way more damage than dual 16/22.

Though you'll also have faster fights as dps upgrades. And won't have be a bigger boon to a wiz than a melee?

[Kender]

Monk's will be more ridiculous with Avatar and at the very end Triple Attack. Plus weapons better than Wu's Fist of OP-in-Kunarkness.

But as I mentioned above, Damage Shield is #1 DPS in Velious if your MT and RTs are maxing it. Completely unresistable, guaranteed DMG is the best kind.

we should only see monks getting triple attack if they first release stonebrunt mountains which was a few months before the triple attack patch

[Raev]

Though you'll also have faster fights as dps upgrades. And won't have be a bigger boon to a wiz than a melee?

Not really, because if you can kill it you can kill it. I think everything dies on day one, which means the only point to all this gear is that more mobs will die with short numbers on euro time.

[pasi]

tunare was dropping fist of nature on beta server

idk if they removed it, doubt they did

It seems all of the TOV upgrades are in. So you can upgrade to 15/18, 16/19, or 40/30 2H.


Surprised, but good for raiders.

Hopefully this means early Luclin stat upgrades for Tunare, Vulak, AoW, and ST stuff. Delicious Flowing Thoughts and Enraging Blows for all.

[Daldaen]

No Luclin upgrades unless they give us Focus Effects, Druid CH and Moonfire and Spirit of Eagle and AAs and the rest of Luclin in its glory.

[Daldaen]

we should only see monks getting triple attack if they first release stonebrunt mountains which was a few months before the triple attack patch

Why do you seem to think Stonebrunt wouldn't get added:

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010829.html

It's classic.

[Tecmos Deception]

Not really, because if you can kill it you can kill it. I think everything dies on day one, which means the only point to all this gear is that more mobs will die with short numbers on euro time.

Why not really? That first parse was over 6 minutes long. Wouldnt wizards spend quite a bit of that at their minimum dps level, limited by their mana regen? Seems like a fight half that long would mean the wiz spends less time bottomed out on their mana bar, less time losing ground to superior sustained dps of melee.

What am I missing, if this is incorrect?

[Raev]

My point was the wizard shouldn't *really* be that happy just because his epeen numbers are growing; what matters is the chance the raid has to kill the target.

[Tecmos Deception]

Fair enough overall point. I said what I did since the thread was started to consider relative class conparisons

[zanderklocke]

Sheesh, Raev and Tecmos. Get a room!

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