How important is hide/sneak on a cleric truly?

[Hrothgaar]

Hey all,

1.) I am thinking about rolling a cleric and read up a huge amount of opinions about which race / deity to pick but almost all postings were years old and I understand that hide and sneak has been changed since then. As I would pick halfling just for the added utility of these two skills, how important are they truly these days (or in velious) for the group (or later even raid)?

Some posters mentioned the lack of gear (deity gear, robes) for halfling clerics , so I am really unsure if I should pick halfling because it will be a long time (if ever) before I can grab some high-end raid gear to fill in these holes.

What is your up-to-date opinion on this concerning the race/deity?

2.) As my main is a shaman (25) which I love to almost always play in groups, I am thinking about maybe getting the cleric just for some solo "Smiter of the undead" RP theme until my rezzes are meaningful, which race/deity would you advice in this case?
Side-Note: Yes I know that it should be probably the way around as in clerics-group, shaman-solo ;-)

[DeadlyReza]

I thought it would be ultra important, but have realized getting into the 30s with my cleric that u just haven't used it at all, I mean the reason it is meant to be so good is because we don't get invis, only invis to undead, but seriously I think the diety gear would've been more useful.

Also once you get into raiding it won't matter.

All that matters is that you can wear this.
http://wiki.project1999.com/File:Robe_of_the_azure_sky.png
http://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky

But i myself only want my cleric as a rez bitch and a slot to fill if the raid requires a healer instead of my mage :P

So it really depends if you are going end game with him or not.

And once velious comes it does get a little better
http://wiki.project1999.com/Akkirus%27_Chestplate_of_the_Risen

But still the winner is this guy
http://wiki.project1999.com/Sal%60Varae%60s_Robe_of_Darkness

So choose wisely and no what and why you are missing out

[Pipip]

Sneak is such a useful ability. I use it all the time.

But you'll have to deal with people constantly asking you for SoW and ports

[Tecmos Deception]

I loved having sneak. I used it all the time on my halfling cleric. Buy/sell from any merchant, complete some quests that you wouldn't be able to do because of low faction, etc. You can even sneak tag (I did a few sneak pulls in a chardok royals group once, using the long-range skipper stones you can get from swamp of no hope), though your options for throwing weapons are almost all too short range until Velious.

It hasn't been as nice for getting around, since invis pots are only 10pp per and on blue you can get ring of shadows and larrikan's mask charges for even less. I also don't know how useful it will be in Velious.

But when the tradeoff is that you can't wear robes... meh. So what? So what the best chest in the game for casters is a robe? Everyone will want it, right? Do you plan on having more DKP than everyone else? Do you plan on raiding enough that everyone else gets one so that you can have your shot eventually too? Or are you more likely to be content with a piece of armor and being able to find indifferent merchants anywhere in the world?

[DeadlyReza]

Sneak is such a useful ability. I use it all the time.

But you'll have to deal with people constantly asking you for SoW and ports

So true!

[Swish]

Sneak = any vendor, anytime. Very handy.

It's a shame hide got nerfed, I remember hitting hide in hate on my dark elf cleric after a nasty train and undead mobs couldn't see me either. Camp a cleric? Naw.

Shame that got changed...still handy for afks in non-undead zones.

[DeadlyReza]

Sneak = any vendor, anytime. Very handy.

It's a shame hide got nerfed, I remember hitting hide in hate on my dark elf cleric after a nasty train and undead mobs couldn't see me either. Camp a cleric? Naw.

Shame that got changed...still handy for afks in non-undead zones.

I am always so reluctant to try this lol based on the nerf

[Swish]

Target any living mob that's kos/not "indifferent"... and hit hide.

Con it again and if it's NOW indifferent you're hidden until you click it off or move.

The UI will lie to you if you're playing in third person, so if you see yourself disappear it doesn't mean it was successful, gotta /con a mob to be sure :p

[Hrothgaar]

Hehe, thx for all your answers - but I fear my 2 questions still remain open :-/

On question 1:
I am more of looking for an answer if the hide/sneak thing is any important for the GROUP while adventuring.
I dont really care to walk a while for beeing able to vendor.
Also raiding as I wrote above will be a LONG way in the future as I really just started out on p1999 without any twink gear, money and so on. So its just casual mode for a long time :-)

On question 2:
This one would be still open also :-)

[Joyelle]

It's nice to have but it isn't a game-breaker. I never really had problems at low levels because I kept invis potions with me at all times. Ring of Shadows are baller for those shit-hitting-the-fan moments as well. And of course for general travel the Larrikan's mask always came in handy when I couldn't find a path to avoid mobs.

[Tecmos Deception]

We can't make the decision for you. We told you what sneak can be used for on a cleric (vendors, some quests, maybe rarely getting somewhere invis won't help, maybe rarely sneak pulling) and you have to decide if those things are more important to you than having no chance of wearing robes. Will sneak save the day for your groupvby letting you do something you couldn't do without? It can, once in a great while, yeah. But what's that worth to YOU?

Race and deity are really mostly just "which sounds most fun to you" things. Racial armors vary, some races+deities have access to cool toy clickies that are not essential but fun/useful, there's faction issues, etc. Solo clerics are surprisingly effective 1-50ish even without thinking, imo.

[Hrothgaar]

Ah I see!
Does this count for the solo aspect too?
If you, for example, had to start a cleric for solo, which race/deity combo would you choose for this task based on your experiences so far?

[Swish]

Equipment/items eclipses any race/deity choice - some starting areas are better than others if the start is a factor for you.

[Tecmos Deception]

If you, for example, had to start a cleric for solo, which race/deity combo would you choose for this task based on your experiences so far?

I'd do erudite or gnome just for the rarity of the combo, although if you're strictly soloing and you're not twinking much, the lower wisdom compared to a high elf will be a fair pain in the butt.

[Danth]

Hide and sneak aren't too important, but they're nice to have. They modestly improve the player's quality of life. Neither has any impact on the Cleric's ability to do his primary job. They're completely irrelevant in typical XP groups. If a player doesn't care what race he picks, choosing one which has hide (or hide and sneak both) won't hurt, but those abilities are never so important as to choose a race solely for them when a player likes some other race better.

If I was going to start a Cleric for solo...oh who am I kidding? The only way to win that one is not picking at all. Clerics are pointless for folks who want to mainly solo. At the very least find an enchanter to duo with.

Danth

[Swish]

Clerics are undead wizards, there's an aged but still quite relevant cleric solo guide on the wiki. If you're not doing the undead trio near the EC zoneline in Nektulos as a young dark elf/human/halfling you're doing it wrong...great spot to be ;)

Overcrowding has made it more difficult to do other parts of the guide such as Unrest.

Play how you like though. If you're someone that's going to solo a lot you'll be looting a lot...so maybe a halfling or dwarf for strength wouldn't be a bad thing?

[Ele]

Do you want to be the best and have access to abilities that no other cleric race has?

PD Robe stats have several comparable items in Velious and FT3 from Vulak robe is interchangeable with Tunare earring.

But no item gives sneak.

[Daldaen]

Do you want to be the best and have access to abilities that no other cleric race has?

PD Robe stats have several comparable items in Velious and FT3 from Vulak robe is interchangeable with Tunare earring.

But no item gives sneak.

Didn't we determine FT3 Robe a Luclin change? Thought it was FT1 as long as our timeline is.

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Robe was upgraded with today's patch. It now has Effect: Flowing Though III(Worn).
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[webrunner5]

Since a Cleric NEVER gets a Inviz spell I think it is a HUGE deal to have Hide, Sneak. :cool:

[Swish]

Who would you prefer when the shit hits the fan?

Cleric A: Just heals until oom, says "oom" and then sits down and prays the group gets out of trouble.

Cleric B: Already had root loaded, loads up stun... starts rooting adds between heals, stuns adds at full health to be root parked away from the action.


You'll find more Cleric B's will have solo'ed and know a thing or two about surviving the bad times :p So I'd recommend every cleric tries some solo, whether its early levels, spectres, hags, Kunark undead across many levels/zones there.

[DeadlyReza]

Who would you prefer when the shit hits the fan?

Cleric A: Just heals until oom, says "oom" and then sits down and prays the group gets out of trouble.

Cleric B: Already had root loaded, loads up stun... starts rooting adds between heals, stuns adds at full health to be root parked away from the action.


You'll find more Cleric B's will have solo'ed and know a thing or two about surviving the bad times :p So I'd recommend every cleric tries some solo, whether its early levels, spectres, hags, Kunark undead across many levels/zones there.

Amen, I knew a cleric who didn't even know he had root!

I was like "Hey dude can you cc and I'll heal and he was like "sorry I'm a cleric..."

True story...

So which are you doing OP?

Grouping? Solo'ing? Bit of both?

Getting PLed to 50 and MQing you epic? (Hehe just kidding!)

[captnamazing]

sneak is fucking invaluable.

[kaev]

sneak is fucking invaluable.

Clerics don't get range weapons to do that stupid-assed broken OP sneak pull bs old pal.

Basing cleric race choice on whether or not you have a trick to use vendors that hate you? seriously?

Basing cleric race choice on doing a quest or two without factioning? Make friends with an enchanter and you'll get a TON of other benefits as well.

Versus hide, get 4 or 5 Ring of Shadows, instant cast, non-targetted, cheap to recharge (keep one full charge for recharging), and, unlike hide, invis is not broken by moving, and, unlike innate racial hide, invis doesn't silently fail you 50% of the time.

tl;dr: gameplay reasons for sneak/hide on a cleric are about as far from compelling as you can get.




Oh, what's that you say? Dayum Bubba! If it's for RP or because you think it'd be fun you go right ahead and do it all day every day!

[Swish]

Basing cleric race choice on whether or not you have a trick to use vendors that hate you? seriously?

Min/max is the P99 way, remember to take frontal stun immunity if its available because frontal stun immunity etc

[webrunner5]

[QUOTE=kaev;1979548]Basing cleric race choice on whether or not you have a trick to use vendors that hate you? seriously?/QUOTE]

We are all still playing a 16 year old kids game!! seriously?

And you really think people are not smart enough by now to take advantage of every trick in the book??

[Tecmos Deception]

Kaev: skipping stones.

They are even pretty easy to farm at higher levels pulling the while zone and PBAEing. You won't be sneak pulling every pull but you can use it for the tricky splits.

[Cecily]

Not even considering broken sneak pulls, sneak is an extremely powerful ability. Being able to vendor / bank anywhere is huge. Being able to do any quest that will accept indifferent faction is huge. Being able to sneak behind see invis mobs is huge. Hide, too, is something I can't stand not having on my characters. Unlimited invis vs living (most areas) is just great for AFK medding.

But you'd have to be a halfling to do all this. Isn't worth it. Go DE (inny) , Erudite (cazic), or Human (inny).

[Daldaen]

Kaev: skipping stones.

They are even pretty easy to farm at higher levels pulling the while zone and PBAEing. You won't be sneak pulling every pull but you can use it for the tricky splits.

Skipping stones don't stack anymore. Do you even play Tecmos??? So much classicquest has occurred in the last year. Sneak pulling isn't going to be that sweet once fixed, especially on a class with a low skill cap and no means of dropping aggro. You can do a few random quests and vendor a few random places. Meh and meh. If you are a person who wants to do random quests and hates not being able to vendor everywhere, roll an enchanter or Druid.

Clerics should be elves (high or dark). Dwarf cleric only if you never exp in the hole and wish to safely run around dubious to the brell diety mobs. Gnome and halfling never, those short races are just horrible.

[kaev]

Skipping stones don't stack anymore. Do you even play Tecmos??? So much classicquest has occurred in the last year. Sneak pulling isn't going to be that sweet once fixed, especially on a class with a low skill cap and no means of dropping aggro. You can do a few random quests and vendor a few random places. Meh and meh. If you are a person who wants to do random quests and hates not being able to vendor everywhere, roll an enchanter or Druid.

Clerics should be elves (high or dark). Dwarf cleric only if you never exp in the hole and wish to safely run around dubious to the brell diety mobs. Gnome and halfling never, those short races are just horrible.

Meh, my point was play what you want because you want to play it. Minmaxing cleric race is just silly, the advantages and disadvantages are so unimportant to your actual success as a cleric in EQ. Clerics are very good at making groups more powerful with buffing, healing, some root CC and/or agro control (love you warriors) when it's needed, and the occasional well placed stun. Clerics are very poor at pretty much everything else. Race choice has almost zero impact on what the class is good at (it's not hard to have a solid mana pool and sufficient hp/ac).

[Cecily]

I don't even think you can call halfling racials min/maxing. It's perks, some very convenient ones, but you ultimately have to play as a halfling to enjoy them so the only ones playing those creatures are genuine fans of the race.

[Itap]

This thread is repeating the same thing in different words

[fastboy21]

EQ rule of thumb: Abilities > stats.

Items and spells (and in this case races) that give you abilities you wouldn't otherwise have are almost always far superior to a stat increase.

Obviously, there are some dud abilities out there. Hide/Sneak def isn't one of them.

[captnamazing]

Sneak is invaluable. Bank anywhere, merchant anywhere, sneak tag option (skpping stones), and with some skill you can get past any see invis mob that presents an opportunity.

That being said, HFL is not for everyone. But having racial sneak is OP.

[DeadlyReza]

And I mean come on dude, it's a hobbit! A HOBBIT! Loved by all and so fun to RP :D

[Samoht]

Remember: Halfling clerics and warriors are going to be able to make Thurg pots even while KoS to ice dorfs.

Mark that down as a YESPLEASE come Velious.

[Daldaen]

Remember: Halfling clerics and warriors are going to be able to make Thurg pots even while KoS to ice dorfs.

Mark that down as a YESPLEASE come Velious.

Other than mobilizing for Dain, what purpose does a player have a Thurg pot for if they are KoS there? A WC Cap and Wizard/Druid port from WC to GD for Velks or WL/CS for any other raid target is going to be faster.

I suppose more get out of jail free clickies would be nice but meh.

[Lady Julae]

...I am more of looking for an answer if the hide/sneak thing is any important for the GROUP while adventuring...

Well if it's any consolation, I don't think groups take me in for my hide skill. That said, when I am not playing my cleric, I am more concerned if they know how to heal, not if they can sneak/hide.

[Samoht]

Other than mobilizing for Dain, what purpose does a player have a Thurg pot for if they are KoS there? A WC Cap and Wizard/Druid port from WC to GD for Velks or WL/CS for any other raid target is going to be faster.

I think you pretty much answered your own question here since faster is subjective and depends heavily on zone time and availability of porters. Thurg is central for anything iceclad, ew, kael, gd, velks, and thurgb without requiring someone else to port you around. WL/SS too if you're really desperate and cannot find a port.

Plus you can recharge your vial on your own while recharging WC cap requires a merchant with empty space and someone else with a charged cap.

Flexibility of your mobility is going to be more important than ever in Velious. Soulbind in PoM, WC cap, OT hammer, lizard blood potions, swamp gate pots, everfrost gate pots, etc.

Why do you hate Thurg gate pots?

[Daldaen]

Well you can't "recharge" the vial, you have to make a new one. Which involves having on hand, Crystalline Silk, Pieces of Velium and Small Brick of Velium (nonstackable). Somewhat common pieces but the nonstackability of the bricks is annoying for having many charges on hand.

But I was mostly looking at it from the perspective of a high end 60, cleric used almost exclusively for raids. I don't see them ever needing one.

If Dain is due, I can see the value. If Velketor is due, he will get a port to GD after WC capping. If any other raid mob is due he will get a port to WL or CS.

If I'm KoS in the city, it yields almost no benefit to be there and the adjacent zones are low level zones, plus Velks. As I am 60 I don't intend to step foot in Velketor beyond slaying Velk himself.

I don't hate Thurg pots. I hate the attempt to justify halfling as a useful race. They are the most useless of all races, just next to gnomes.

[kaev]

Why do you hate Thurg gate pots?

I get the impression that it's just halflings and other EQ midgets he's hating on. And really, it's hard to blame a guy for that. I mean, Filbus & Nibblewitz are pretty cool, and Greengrocer is entertaining in all of his many guises, beyond them and a small few others? meh

[Daldaen]

Ele is the only allowable halfling because of his level of classic immersion. All others are not to be trusted.

[Colgate]

sneak is one of the most overpowered abilities in this game

[Samoht]

sneak is one of the most overpowered abilities in this game

This. I also did Coldain ring quests while KoS on live.

[Daldaen]

This. I also did Coldain ring quests while KoS on live.

The final turnin requires max ally faction. And Dain sees invis, so getting behind him without getting whacked for 9 would be rough (this one may require some faction too). 1-8 I could see though.

[Messie]

Have to say, as a 38 assling cleric, I am really enjoying the sneak ability so far. I was just duo'ing in Oggok with an enchanter friend and selling all of the fine steel and shields to their own vendors. feels good, and easy to make money because your bags dont fill up just once!