Ranger - is Woodsman staff the only real option till raid gear?

[TarukShmaruk]

Or does dual wield function about as well when using decent weapons?

I ask because I love dual wield since it's fun watching a flurry of attacks but I don't want to self-gimp out the ass because the DPS from the WS is so much better.

[Man0warr]

Dual Wield is worse DPS for most melee classes until 40s or 50s when Bonus damage fully kicks in.

If you are 60 with a pair of good droppable weapons the difference probably isn't that pronounced but Woodsman's Staff is pretty cheap compared to the best droppable 1handers like Edge of the Nightwalker and Jagged Blade of Mourning.

[Cecily]

I think it's more about DW / DA having a higher % chance to trigger in the 50s when skill is nearly capped.

[Pipip]

I use a swarmcaller myself. It's a fraction of the price, and just looks manlier in general. Maybe it doesn't do as much damage, but if you're playing a ranger, you already are avoiding the min/max path.

[ghost182]

There are comparable combinations. Close enough but woodsmans is great with haste. I agree dual wield doesn't compare though until DW skill raises over 200 in the 50s. I am using a steel hilted and lupine dagger now at 51 and having a blast. My dex is over 200 though. I don't use steel hilted on raids though just 5 man groups. Lupine and CSs is a pretty solid combo but woodsmans is still quite a bit better at 51. Maybe at 60 the gap will even out. I think it's important to have a 1h because as soon as you get 1 of the epics you're going DW. For solo play or ranking you really do take a lot less riposte dmg

[ghost182]

Oh yea the wurmslayer and green axe could be some pretty heavy hitting stuff too

[Tuljin]

Woodsman Staff is a tuff weapon and an excellent bang for your buck. Keep bludgeoning mobs with it, get levels, and save your plat

[koros]

I think it's more about DW / DA having a higher % chance to trigger in the 50s when skill is nearly capped.

It has nothing to do with DA, as the math makes this a wash. It's mostly about DW, and to a lesser extent the relative increase that 1 handers get in terms of damage bonus vs 2 handers. The second part is more complicated as it depends on the delay of each weapon. And can reverse for various levels with different delays.

[kaev]

It has nothing to do with DA, as the math makes this a wash. It's mostly about DW, and to a lesser extent the relative increase that 1 handers get in terms of damage bonus vs 2 handers. The second part is more complicated as it depends on the delay of each weapon. And can reverse for various levels with different delays.

Is off-hand DA chance equal to primary? If not, how is it calculated?

[Cecily]

Quads are what make DW worth using. You can't say that DA doesn't matter.

[Kinvalar]

Quads are what make DW worth using. You can't say that DA doesn't matter.

This is a big point, imo. DW skill increases obviously make DW better, but until you can DA with offhand you're really held back.

I can't find specific literature atm about when your offhand can start DAing, but I want to say its 150 skill. I might be wrong (anybody know definitively?) but before that its my understanding that you can't quad.

EDIT: English is hard.

[Jimjam]

Does off hand DA have a 150 skill penalty? or is it simply a flip switch between being able to use the ability at full skill versus not at all?

[webrunner5]

2 handers on average are slow, and because of that you can cast a spell in between swings. I would go 2 Hander also till Epic or 55ish.

So good way to raise your DPS, or even save your butt, which seems to hang a lot, if you know what I mean. :eek:

[TarukShmaruk]

Ok thanks for all of the advice. It's a bummer because dual wield is just *fun* - well, since I equate fun in Everquest to watching a stream of white "you hit x for x" text fun.

[koros]

Is off-hand DA chance equal to primary? If not, how is it calculated?

Yes it is.

[koros]

Does off hand DA have a 150 skill penalty? or is it simply a flip switch between being able to use the ability at full skill versus not at all?

Flips a switch.

[koros]

Quads are what make DW worth using. You can't say that DA doesn't matter.

For anyone level 29 or over, yes you can.

[webrunner5]

Ok thanks for all of the advice. It's a bummer because dual wield is just *fun* - well, since I equate fun in Everquest to watching a stream of white "you hit x for x" text fun.

Yeah I know what you mean. I love on my Monk with the Epic, how fast I can spam my window with my hits on it. :eek: Cool stuff compared to a slow 2 hander for sure. :p

[Kinvalar]

Yeah I know what you mean. I love on my Monk with the Epic, how fast I can spam my window with my hits on it. :eek: Cool stuff compared to a slow 2 hander for sure. :p

Can have a lot of fun later on with ranger with spam (mostly for pushing casters and forcing interrupts) by tossing a Rev Whip from Hate into main-hand (5/14). Numbers just fly when you're swinging at 7 delay with proper haste.

[HalasHermit]

So just out of curiosity, say you already have a Wurm/Lammy on other toons and are level 24 with swiftblade. Fashionquest aside, is the woodsman staff THAT much better?

[Jimjam]

Can have a lot of fun later on with ranger with spam (mostly for pushing casters and forcing interrupts) by tossing a Rev Whip from Hate into main-hand (5/14). Numbers just fly when you're swinging at 7 delay with proper haste.

Isn't delay meant to be bottom capped at like 10 or something in eq?


... hmm this might be a job for the bug investigation team!

[Fanguru]

"Lot of fun with pushing" also comes with more aggro. Np in a group environment, but I would not play with that on a raid :p

[maskedmelon]

Isn't delay meant to be bottom capped at like 10 or something in eq?


... hmm this might be a job for the bug investigation team!

That is my recollection. Although I cannot recall if it was always that way or the result of a patch.

[kaev]

Isn't delay meant to be bottom capped at like 10 or something in eq?


... hmm this might be a job for the bug investigation team!

LOL, if there was a minimum it was not 10 or close to it. Say hello to the finest enrage plow in EQ: http://wiki.project1999.com/Bixie_Sword_Blade. Used it on a chromadrac for giggles once and the riposte procs stripped my buffs in about 3 seconds. :) Awesome push on a mob with no DS, especially when hasted. When I killed Miragul for my paladin epic drop, with the bixie blade on my Paladin plus a dual-wielding Monk (both of us hasted) we pushed him so hard he never got a spell off (he was red-con, didn't bother wasting time trying to cast a stun.)

[Ele]

Isn't delay meant to be bottom capped at like 10 or something in eq?


... hmm this might be a job for the bug investigation team!

That is my recollection. Although I cannot recall if it was always that way or the result of a patch.

The minimum delay is 5 per this 2011 P99 patch.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43419&highlight=minimum+delay

[maskedmelon]

I meant on live back I the day. If we patched it to 5 delay here the. That means that at some point on live it was changed to the 10 that stuck I our heads ^^. Thanks for clarifying Ele. Good stuff to know ^^

[blondeattk]

was chatting to high lvl monk today from rampage, in thurgadin and we agreed...WTH are all the ...

http://wiki.project1999.com/Velium_Brawl_Stick (and better)

ive seen none and hed seen 1.

ive seen all the other velium weapons for sale but non of these.

any clue why?

one of the best looking velious weapons out there imo!

[Man0warr]

I've seen the Exquisite Brawl Sticks (32/36 and a 30/36 version) drop in DN off rats while farming Vilefang. The best ratio versions of all the weapons are pretty rare though - they seem to drop more commonly off Sontalak and other harder WW dragons.

Way more expensive than Woodsman Staff at this point though.

[Kutsumo]

Spent a bit of time comparing the best DW weapons I could acquire to the woodsman staff in the low 20s on my ranger.

12/21 + 12/22 for the DW (exquisite sword + barbed spear)

I based it on how long, on average, it took me to kill the mobs I was grinding on. They have ~450hp each. Parsing with gamparse and had it set to ignore pulls so the combat time would be pretty close.

Woodsman staff average over 50 mobs: 25 seconds
DW average over 50 mobs: 32 seconds

I imagine that gap would close a bit once at 29+ when double attack hits 150 and offhand begins double attacking. For the time being I went ahead and sold the 1hers... not worth all that plat tied up in inferior weapons.

[ghost182]

Spent a bit of time comparing the best DW weapons I could acquire to the woodsman staff in the low 20s on my ranger.

12/21 + 12/22 for the DW (exquisite sword + barbed spear)

I based it on how long, on average, it took me to kill the mobs I was grinding on. They have ~450hp each. Parsing with gamparse and had it set to ignore pulls so the combat time would be pretty close.

Woodsman staff average over 50 mobs: 25 seconds
DW average over 50 mobs: 32 seconds

I imagine that gap would close a bit once at 29+ when double attack hits 150 and offhand begins double attacking. For the time being I went ahead and sold the 1hers... not worth all that plat tied up in inferior weapons.


the woodsmans staff is going to be hitting for nearly double the dmg 30+? damage cap remember?

[Kutsumo]

the woodsmans staff is going to be hitting for nearly double the dmg 30+? damage cap remember?

The damage cap from 20-29 is 60. Woodsman staff will average for 62 instead of 60 once past level 30. Interestingly enough, many of my hits with the staff are in the 80-90 range, so it seems strength allows you to get past the cap pretty often.

Also, I hope you did notice that Woodsman staff outperformed the 1hers in my test.

[Man0warr]

2h'er is always going to best for soloing sub-50, just because you trigger less ripostes and your own ripostes do more damage.

[am0n]

Wish they weren't so expensive. As a new guy, 5-6k for a single item is still well outside my reach. Even the 1k for a Springwood Staff is tough.

[Man0warr]

6-8k for an endgame weapon you can use for 40 levels is cheap by most other classes standards.

[gildor]

I got my springwood stave for 400, or just a Swarmcaller for 200ish

[webrunner5]

6-8k for an endgame weapon you can use for 40 levels is cheap by most other classes standards.

Very true Man. Best Weapon in the game for twice that money, even now. No way you can beat it. And like I said you can cast spells between the swings. That adds up to even more DPS. With a 36% Haste item it is a Killer weapon to have. :cool:

[gildor]

springwood is serviceable and gets the over 40 delay dmg bonus, not saying its a better weapon, but its cheaper and works amazingly well

[Man0warr]

Over 40 delay damage bonus? Pretty sure 2handers have same damage bonus tables as 1handers until the October 2001 Velious patch.

[Kutsumo]

Over 40 delay damage bonus? Pretty sure 2handers have same damage bonus tables as 1handers until the October 2001 Velious patch.

2hers have damage bonus tables separate from 1h on P99, but they are the "classic" values and not the improved ones that come with that velious patch you referenced. I was just looking at a list that shows the delay breakpoints and calculations for this server a few days ago... can't find it now. I know a 30 delay 2her has a 17 damage bonus here at 60.

[gildor]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79696

Rogean discusses here

[blondeattk]

http://wiki.project1999.com/Carved_Dragonbone_Spear

bunch 2 handed pokers floating about this week in the market.

non of which are rng useable....`tank` classes only.

shms get one, but no ranger one (

wonder why?

[Kutsumo]

We can use the velium brawl stick, claidhmore, and battleaxe. Can't use lance. Most of the other 2hers are either class specific or tank specific like the spear you linked and the iceflame.

[blondeattk]

missing from wiki....

Mithril Edged Skull Splitter

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5082

one dropped in tunnel for me yesterday for a reasonable price of 1100p; has a rubbish gfx on it....eg a kunark axe.

a bit slow, but big damage bonus.

its from trash mobs in skyshrine...

[blondeattk]

^^actually the axe doesnt look like axe of ironback as reported on zam, has a novel graffic, but its a dull grey colour. think theres a gold coloured sarnak axe thats a bit similar...