Should I re-roll my warrior?

[kebas239]

Hi all,

I'm currently a 40 Ogre warrior. I had originally chosen ogre due to them being the "min/max" race. I am, however, having second thoughts and am really disliking the appearance and size of them as well as being a run of the mill race/class combo.

I was thinking of re-rolling a Rallos Zek Halfling w/ all DEX at character creation. I think that they look cooler in addition to the other convenience features they have. Also, as Rallos, I think I'm able to get into some "evil" areas without becoming KOS to the friendlies. Most of the deficits, such as the lower stats and bash, should eventually be corrected with velious gear and level 55 stunning kick.

My primary concern is the loss of frontal stun immunity. Ultimately, I want to be an end game primary raid tank and am worried that losing this racial will screw me over. I understand that it's personal preference, but am trying to get other opinions (preferably from end game non-ogre warriors). Do you think that it's worth me re-rolling and losing this feature to pick a race that I enjoy more? My current gear/magelo is below using Halfling as a template.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Hadur


Thanks in advance!

[Daldaen]

Frontal Stun Immunity is not required to be a main tank.

Ogres do have the best stats. The size can be overcome with a Cobalt Bracer (shrink click) indoors and Ant Potions (20pp per charge shrink potions) outdoors. Also an AoN (skeleton illusion) fixes the looks issue if you intend to be a really high end tank with a lot of coin.

The top geared main tank in Rampage and Forsaken, the two most hardcore of guilds, are Dwarf/Half Elf I'm fairly sure - (Correct me if I'm wrong, Rampage may have geared out someone else that I'm not aware of.)

Warrior race really doesn't matter at the high end. Frontal stun immunity is a joke of an ability for a warrior, your aggro is just fine when eating 2-3second bash stuns. In fact the more you're stunned the less you can get yourself riposted on. Something more useful would be Iksar AC or Half Elf Charisma (Divine Intervention triggers). Troll regen has a slight benefit but not much at high end tanking. Everyone else's racial is rather useless. Warriors really shouldn't need to hide or sneak, you've got other classes more suited for those things or Invis clickies at the high end.

[Raev]

In my opinion, there are only two warrior racials worth having for endgame raiding: stun immunity and the Iksar AC bonus. Stun immunity increases your threat by 6% or so vs raid targets, which is actually rather useful in Velious where fights last more than 20 seconds. Even in Kunark it can be useful. I remember 'tanking' Xygoz on Sakuragi; immediately after the first mallet charge he bashed me for two seconds. It also helps you position the mob a bit more easily.

TLDR: It's useful but hardly required. You have to decide whether you'd rather have a good looking toon or one 5% better. Personally I loathe the ogre model which is why I went Iksar.

[Swish]

Frontal stun immunity is a joke of an ability for a warrior, your aggro is just fine when eating 2-3second bash stuns. In fact the more you're stunned the less you can get yourself riposted on.

What kind of statement is that? Looking for the silver lining?

I didn't know you were an expert on warriors, what level is yours?

[captnamazing]

I have been a main raid tank of BDA for over a year.halflings are great. The winner of kunark botb was a hfl war named Eabon and he was a main tank for TMO. The thing keeping you from being number one main tank wi be competing with all the other, more tenured warriors who have raided in their guild for years. Just dedicate your life to p99 and you will achieve what you desire. Good luck padawan

[captnamazing]

Play what brings you joy. I get my rocks off RPing a halfling badass and executing a clutch sneak tag once in a blue moon. Some ppl love iksars. This is a game for your personal kicks. Not your investment portfolio

[Gustoo]

There is no doubt that ogres are the best

There is no doubt that really it is a game and as has been noted, many of primary raiding tanks are not ogres.

Personally I'd say stick with ogre and enjoy the evil zones in the game that you maybe didn't get to experience on live when you were dumb and were a woodelf rallos zek warrior with maximum wisdom like I was.

Mainly though, 1-40 is a lot of time / played just to throw away. If you re-roll do an enchy or something different.

[Monty405]

Go Gnome.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Honestly, if you don't like the way your Ogre looks, then yeah. I'd definitely reroll.

I wouldn't want to be sinking even more time into playing a character that I don't even think looks good.

[Samoht]

Not enough value given to sneak in this thread. Halflings are indeed the master warrior race because of sneak. Only draw back is the permanently encumbered status.

[xKoopa]

Only draw back is the permanently encumbered status.

the struggle is real

[Freakish]

Play the race you like the best. I made dwarf so I can do this: https://youtu.be/xFXUYl2ljqI

[Issar]

This is a game for your personal kicks. Not your investment portfolio

This is probably the quote of the week, for my money :D

Oh yes, to the OP. Keep in mind that a good race following RZ can still be KOS in good aligned cities. My wood elf warrior is a follower of the Warlord and I learned the hard way that the dwarves are not particularly fond of RZ. I had to kill a bunch of gobby whelps to enter the city safely.

[kebas239]

Thank you all for the great advice! I did try to do the Halfling warrior for a bit and while I thought it was cool, I noticed the stuns so much more. I felt that this may be a bigger hindrance than I initially thought, since it was happening more often than I expected and all my argo is off procs and melee. Also, some of you also made a fair point that I got to a level where it may be a big waste if I re-roll. I decided to stay ogre - I hate their looks but I think I'm destined to be one haha.

[Kylenorr]

I made mine a Halfling... because... why not? Sneak pull! Plus his name is Merrygrin Rumblebelly... can't get much better than that.

[Jigawatts]

Dorf or Barbie. Short bearded sexy or tall bearded sexy.

[Muggens]

I made mine a Halfling... because... why not? Sneak pull! Plus his name is Merrygrin Rumblebelly... can't get much better than that.

Rumblebelly, that reminds me of my greatest D&D character ever, Bobby Ironbelly - Halfling monk(yes, not classic rules) But my friend kept calling him Rumbletummy in-character all the time, just to pester me.

[Jigawatts]

Rumblebelly, that reminds me of my greatest D&D character ever, Bobby Ironbelly - Halfling monk(yes, not classic rules) But my friend kept calling him Rumbletummy in-character all the time, just to pester me.

Have you tried out 5th Edition yet? A Halfling Monk would actually be a pretty awesome character in 5E (the monks martial arts ability allows you to use Dex instead of Str for unarmed attack and dmg), and there are no more race/class restrictions anyway so its completely legal.

[Celatus]

Frontal Stun Immunity is not required to be a main tank.

Ogres do have the best stats. The size can be overcome with a Cobalt Bracer (shrink click) indoors and Ant Potions (20pp per charge shrink potions) outdoors. Also an AoN (skeleton illusion) fixes the looks issue if you intend to be a really high end tank with a lot of coin.

The top geared main tank in Rampage and Forsaken, the two most hardcore of guilds, are Dwarf/Half Elf I'm fairly sure - (Correct me if I'm wrong, Rampage may have geared out someone else that I'm not aware of.)

Warrior race really doesn't matter at the high end. Frontal stun immunity is a joke of an ability for a warrior, your aggro is just fine when eating 2-3second bash stuns. In fact the more you're stunned the less you can get yourself riposted on. Something more useful would be Iksar AC or Half Elf Charisma (Divine Intervention triggers). Troll regen has a slight benefit but not much at high end tanking. Everyone else's racial is rather useless. Warriors really shouldn't need to hide or sneak, you've got other classes more suited for those things or Invis clickies at the high end.

The top geared tanks are mostly ogre. Frontal stun immunity is required on some fights. Getting stunned and having a backstab mob pushed past you will get you killed. With the changes to flurry resetting kick/bash frontal stun immunity is more important now than ever. Ogre tanks are the min max class for a reason I require fewer stat buffs which opens more slots for things like damage shields and bard songs. I hit 6k hps easy where as a halfling even with my gear would not Especially in MR gear which some of the tougher fights require. If you care about looks then go with something else if you care about being the best tank go ogre.

[Samoht]

The top geared tanks are mostly ogre.

That's not even close to true. They're actually mostly half-elfs on this server for some strange reason.

Frontal stun immunity is required on some fights.

Can you name one for us, please?

Getting stunned and having a backstab mob pushed past you will get you killed.

So just Stanos then? What happens if you're not stunned and the mob still gets pushed past you? Same result, no? So frontal stun immunity had no affect?

With the changes to flurry resetting kick/bash frontal stun immunity is more important now than ever.

Not really. Aggro generation is not purely reliant on auto attacks, especially with the rampant recharge abuse on this server.

Ogre tanks are the min max class for a reason I require fewer stat buffs which opens more slots for things like damage shields and bard songs. I hit 6k hps easy where as a halfling even with my gear would not

That's probably not true for full stam/hp gear with a stam buff. Everybody caps at 255 regardless of race. The only advantage here actually goes to Iksar for the higher AC cap.

Especially in MR gear which some of the tougher fights require.

MR is only useful up to 255. If you're lucky enough to get a bard in your group, then it's really easy to reach the cap without sacrificing too many HP pieces. The differences in HP are negligible, though, considering that almost every single Velious and most high-end Kunark/planar raiding pieces for warriors have both STA and MR on them. Now if you want to talk about fights that require MR, FR, and/or CR... then you might have a very slight total HP advantage if the non-Ogre drops below 255 STA.

If you care about looks then go with something else if you care about being the best tank go ogre.

That's debatable. As I established earlier, the only tank with a stat advantage is Iksar for the higher AC cap. So calling Ogre "the best" for a situational-at-best CASTER-related perk is purely subjective.

[Issar]

They're actually mostly half-elfs on this server for some strange reason.


Apparently there is a reason,... Robo-elf Helmets

[Sajan]

That's not even close to true.

Celatus is one of Rampage's most experienced and top geared Ogre Warriors. This will not end well for you sir.

[Samoht]

Celatus is one of Rampage's most experienced and top geared Ogre Warriors. This will not end well for you sir.

I seriously hope you're referring to a different Celatus than the one linked in the Magelo on his sig (http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Celatus).

Here's the most interesting part: This page was last modified on 25 March 2015, at 13:58

In six months he has gone from a mediocre-pre-raid mostly droppable armor set to one of Rampage's most experienced and top geared Ogre Warriors? It's funny that you had to specify Ogre warriors there. Do their non-Ogre warriors have more experience and gear that much better than their Ogre warriors that you have to formally announce the difference?

[Daldaen]

Well who were their first warriors to get ST Keys?

A dwarf and a wood elf?

First monk was a human...

Point being most every racial can be overcome by not being dumb. Ogre stun immunity sure as shit can and the stat bonuses, while nice, are offset at higher levels of gearing.

[Jimjam]

Are there a lot of mobs that can stun and backstab?

I know Renux and some gnolls around paw can (both of which FWI won't protect against) but raid wise?

[Daldaen]

Lord Koi'Doken can, I think maybe Ikatiar as well?

[Celatus]

That's not even close to true. They're actually mostly half-elfs on this server for some strange reason.



Can you name one for us, please?



So just Stanos then? What happens if you're not stunned and the mob still gets pushed past you? Same result, no? So frontal stun immunity had no affect?



Not really. Aggro generation is not purely reliant on auto attacks, especially with the rampant recharge abuse on this server.



That's probably not true for full stam/hp gear with a stam buff. Everybody caps at 255 regardless of race. The only advantage here actually goes to Iksar for the higher AC cap.



MR is only useful up to 255. If you're lucky enough to get a bard in your group, then it's really easy to reach the cap without sacrificing too many HP pieces. The differences in HP are negligible, though, considering that almost every single Velious and most high-end Kunark/planar raiding pieces for warriors have both STA and MR on them. Now if you want to talk about fights that require MR, FR, and/or CR... then you might have a very slight total HP advantage if the non-Ogre drops below 255 STA.



That's debatable. As I established earlier, the only tank with a stat advantage is Iksar for the higher AC cap. So calling Ogre "the best" for a situational-at-best CASTER-related perk is purely subjective.


I can't think of one half elf in the top 5 geared tanks. <on blue> Never played on red.

Ikky stuns and backstabs, green flurry drakes also do. wtf cares about stanos lmao.

Auto attack aggro is still huge especially on long fights which is why a warrior simply auto attacking with non procing weapons can pull aggro on long fights. AKA fights with several tank switches. Or mobs that silence of which there are several.

Using a bard to cap your mr on a fear fight is a mistake because that bard is going to be feared. The top geared tanks you speak of cap mr with out a bard and still maintain 6k hps or near.

You obviously don't raid or have raid gear

[Samoht]

You obviously don't raid or have raid gear

Mithril arms/legs. FBSS. Bracer. of. Scavenging.

Neither do you.

[Celatus]

I seriously hope you're referring to a different Celatus than the one linked in the Magelo on his sig (http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Celatus).

Here's the most interesting part: This page was last modified on 25 March 2015, at 13:58

In six months he has gone from a mediocre-pre-raid mostly droppable armor set to one of Rampage's most experienced and top geared Ogre Warriors? It's funny that you had to specify Ogre warriors there. Do their non-Ogre warriors have more experience and gear that much better than their Ogre warriors that you have to formally announce the difference?

Funny thing is that was done before rampage existed and I was an IB app. It wont let me update my magelo. I did play eq for 15 years before i came to p99 ya know but yes in less than a year I have gone from starting p99 to being one of the top geared tanks on the server. Rampage has been good to me.

[Celatus]

Mithril arms/legs. FBSS. Bracer. of. Scavenging.

Neither do you.

LoL yeah well i had to hit 175 unbuffed MR. Needless to say I don't wear that anymore. Its funny that you can pull up that magelo i just get an error when i click on it.

[Celatus]

Well who were their first warriors to get ST Keys?

A dwarf and a wood elf?

First monk was a human...

Point being most every racial can be overcome by not being dumb. Ogre stun immunity sure as shit can and the stat bonuses, while nice, are offset at higher levels of gearing.

I was Number 3 not because of gear but because of seniority/ raid attendence. I have more hps/ac than either one of those tanks and they are still top 5. Still no half elves. The 4th tank in there was an ogre as well and has a bit more hp than I do. No half elves in sight. The top hp warrior atm I believe is an Iksar but the top 5 are all within 30hpish of eachother.

[Sajan]

Called it

[Daldaen]

Auto attack aggro is still huge especially on long fights which is why a warrior simply auto attacking with non procing weapons can pull aggro on long fights. AKA fights with several tank switches. Or mobs that silence of which there are several.
A non-tanking warrior should NEVER EVER pull aggro over the MT who used mallet clicks on engage. Regardless of how many bash stuns the MT is eating. Unless the non-tanking warrior is too dumb to monitor his procs and swap out weapons accordingly.

I can't think of a single scenario where a warrior has or could pull aggro off a warrior who is using proc weapons unless there is something like a long stun on the MT (Zlandicars bugged proc). If your tanks are regularly pulling aggro from Melee damage on fights with tank swaps either they need to not use aggro weapons or they need to swap them out more often to make sure they don't proc too frequently.

Also there are 4 silencing mobs. Xygoz, Ventani, Tukaarak and Ail the Elder. I can't think of any others in Velious/Kunark. Unless you're going to include the crappy WW dragon trash. Not really a point of arguing race superiority for a very narrow set of mobs. Ventani being the only challenging one among them.

[Samoht]

Called it

Called what? Still waiting on Celatus to post anything to refute the posts saying that Ogres aren't necessary on raids.

[Celatus]

A non-tanking warrior should NEVER EVER pull aggro over the MT who used mallet clicks on engage. Regardless of how many bash stuns the MT is eating. Unless the non-tanking warrior is too dumb to monitor his procs and swap out weapons accordingly.

I can't think of a single scenario where a warrior has or could pull aggro off a warrior who is using proc weapons unless there is something like a long stun on the MT (Zlandicars bugged proc). If your tanks are regularly pulling aggro from Melee damage on fights with tank swaps either they need to not use aggro weapons or they need to swap them out more often to make sure they don't proc too frequently.

Also there are 4 silencing mobs. Xygoz, Ventani, Tukaarak and Ail the Elder. I can't think of any others in Velious/Kunark. Unless you're going to include the crappy WW dragon trash. Not really a point of arguing race superiority for a very narrow set of mobs. Ventani being the only challenging one among them.

Lady mir also silences.

A non tanking warrior with non proccing weapons on a fight with several tank switches will pull aggro from auto attack alone. Thats a fact. I have to cycle my attack on fights Im not tanking to not pull aggro using primal weapons and nothing but primal weapons. Several of the non procing 2h will also easily pull aggro because auto attack aggro is bigger than both clickies and proc aggro. Everytime a tank switch happens aggro is reset and all the other DPS can dump aggro below the new main tank.

There is no argument ogre is the best warrior race. Its not huge on most fights but its absurd to argue that they are not the best or that frontal stun immunity is not the best racial. Which is why i said its the best min max race. I did not say OMG you can't tank at the high end if you're not an ogre.

[Sajan]

Called what? Still waiting on Celatus to post anything to refute the posts saying that Ogres aren't necessary on raids.

I see that not only are you lacking brain power, but you seem to come up short in the memory department as well. He has already posted a handful of encounters where having FSI will counter the Stun/Backstab combo that has been observed by guilds who actually defeat said encounters. Not to mention, all of your other misinformed points have been addressed by someone who actually has the experience to weigh in. And your retort? Criticizing his gear on a Magelo he doesn't even update anymore. Reading your posts is like watching Fox News when I want an informed take on what's going on in the world today.

[Samoht]

He has already posted a handful of encounters where having FSI will counter the Stun/Backstab combo

FSI does not counter backstabs.

Not to mention, all of your other misinformed points have been addressed by someone who actually has the experience to weigh in.

I see a lot more people saying that FSI is overrated. Can you read?

Criticizing his gear on a Magelo he doesn't even update anymore.

It's from six months ago. If one of the in your words most experienced tanks in Rampage has less than six months raid experience, I'd be worried.

[Kylenorr]

I still say having the name Rumblebelly is most important...

[Ronnie328]

Play what you like. Even at high end, end game raids it doesn't matter. My friend was the main tank of the best guild on my live server (back when I played years ago), and he was a DE SK, arguably the worst or second worst SK race. It honestly doesn't matter. If you have a raid encounter where FSI matters, it's my experience that even the worst raiding guilds have more than one tank.

[cdawgz28]

Things to consider:
Being a bearded woman
Robocop helms
Frontal stuns
Dwarven combat rolls