Power leveling and sharing the zone

[captainocd]

My buddy and I are new the server and couldn't be having a better time. I'm in a full suit of banded that I forged all on my own and he managed to scrape together the platinum for a Charred Guardian Shield. Life is good and we're having a blast reliving what was literally our childhood. Some of the best times we ever had was in a little zone called Unrest. Incredible experience, excellent layout, cool monsters... just the perfect dungeon. I remember as soon as our characters were created, our first and ultimate goal was to tackle the estate.

Level 10 could not have arrived sooner. We marched (and sailed) our way to Dagnor's Cauldron to begin the hunt. It was as wonderful as we'd remembered. Experience flowed like water. We had our share or problems, sure; the occasional train, a bad pull, a fizzled spell... but none of that mattered. The setbacks were overshadowed by the achievement.

Unfortunately, we had to leave tonight. There was nothing to kill. A Druid and his guildmate were pulling the entire yard leaving us with next to nothing to grind on. At first, we tried to work around the problem. Rather than camp a spot, we'd wander the zone for mobs and try to claim something as soon as it spawned. This proved less fruitful as mana bars don't appreciate being moved around. They like it when their caster is meditating, preferably behind a hedge maze. It was also dangerous. We may get lucky and land a spell on a death beetle, only to have a torrent of respawns drop on top of us in our new vulnerable, open position.

Our experience faltered and our options wore thin. I eventually turned to look at the druid and his friend fighting yet another army of yard trash with thorns. He'd just returned from another legion pull and some of the mobs were still fresh. I hesitated for a moment and then half-reluctantly pressed my Disease Cloud hotkey targeting a Jack O' Lantern. The silly little scarecrow thing happily bound it's way to our position and promptly began to be murdered.

Almost immediately I received a tell, "Did you really just peel a mob off of him?"

"Yes," I replied.

"If you keep that up, you'll receive a suspension"

"Is it against the rules?" I asked genuinely. You see, while I understand that EQ has an unwritten etiquette that really forms the basis for it's wonderful community, I wasn't aware it was literally against the rules to snipe a trash mob off someone. Maybe bad mannered, sure, but not a punishable offense.

"Yes. The GMs will enforce it. Not after one mob, obviously, but if they see a pattern it becomes a problem."

I leaned back in my chair and tapped a finger on the desk, watching the text cursor blink in my chat window. I respected his position. He had every right to be in this zone, just as I did, just as my friend did, and just as the people camping the basement did. Hell, that might just be my friend and I a couple months from now.

Clearing my chat bar, I leaned forward again and panned my view around the yard. A death beetle! I began to cast disease cloud but quickly interrupted it as a wolf peeled around the corner of the house to enlist another member into his death parade.

This felt wrong too.

"It won't happen again." I said as we moved toward the zone entrance to call it a night.

What's your opinion on situations like this? I wasn't about to be a stubborn prick and continue to steal from his pulls. A ban threatens the continued enjoyment of my after-work leisure time more than anything else, even wife aggro. I wasn't about to risk it all over a few zombies. Still, I felt like our position had some validity to it. Thoughts?

[Nakara]

He hasn't "engaged" a mob if he's just running around trying to aggro as much as possible before bringing them back, so feel free to peel mobs off him as he's running around and tell him to fuck off.

Also feel free to try and figure out if he was 2 boxing or not and report him because I saw no less than 3 different 2 boxers powerleveling in unrest in the past 2 days. GM's really need to institute a test to determine if it's actually someone's "brother" on the other account or just one of the many people who 2 box on this server.

[Stibe]

i had a major problem with this. P99 cant enforce a a non PL game. They dont have the manpower to go to every zone where it is happening. Unfortunatly you just have to roll with it and find somewhwere else to level, even if it may be slower. At the end of the day some exp is better than none.

But it is still complete crap that people do this and get away with it. The blame lays on the greedy players, not the staff.

[Darklake]

Couldn't find an official response to this (there might be, but god knows what search terms work to find it) but the nearest is regarding the definitions of camps :-

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653

5. Outdoor pathing mobs are not campable unless you are sitting at the spawn point and able to engage it instantly. Outdoor mobs on fast respawn such as HG and spectres, if you cannot engage immediately you do not hold the camp. Please try and share with fellow players in these instances.

and

If one group was capitalizing on more than one spawn and a second group wanted half or to share and then petitioned, PNP would be enforced and the groups would be forced to share. This is a guide explaining how we would like things to be shared.

I don't think it's unreasonable to peel off a mob from a powerleveller's swarm if they are monopolising the zone, as long as it's at 100% (need before greed and all that) but I'd initially ask if they minded; if they do then ask if they could leave the corner of the zone you're camped in alone.

Not certain how the GMs would react to a powerleveller whining to them, saying that a level 10 noob just "stole" one of their 30 mobs. I'd like to think they'd laugh at them and tell them to /cope :-)

[karsten]

I found this to be a rather nice tale, friend

[Deathrydar]

I feel the OP's pain but I see one thing missing in his post...

I don't see where he sent the PL'ers a tell asking if they minded working something out to everyone's mutual benefit.

[Nazran]

Most of the time they do not respond to tells or requests for respecting the pulls, usually it is a nice tough shit or mute response. If they are rude I just peel mobs off of them. They will usually respond in a few different ways.

1. Dog cuss you in chat. /ignore
2. Nuke the mob you are on to kill it before you can get xp. Works for me because the power levelee is losing the xp too. I can play that game all night.
3. Not say anything because they know they are engaging in douchery.
4. Train you.

[Vonkaar]

Great post, but the whole thing might have been avoided if you initiated the dialogue first. I'm sure the PL team could have left a corner of mobs untouched for you and your buddy to camp. All you have to do is ask.

[Deathrydar]

Most of the time they do not respond to tells or requests for respecting the pulls, usually it is a nice tough shit or mute response. If they are rude I just peel mobs off of them. They will usually respond in a few different ways.

That very well might be their response, but I think that there should always be an attempt to come to a compromise prior to stealing MOBs and such.

I have been sent tells before asking if I could give up some MOBs in a zone and I gladly obliged and apologized because I didn't even know that I was doing anything wrong.

You never know until you ask.

[Crone]

I was doing some power leveling in Befallen, and a group came in and asked if it was camped. We said nope, go ahead, and we took off somewhere else.

As awesome as the zone experience modifier is, and as easy as it is to pull nearly everything in the zone for the PLee's benefit, it's not worth being a douche and stopping actual groups for enjoying it.

[Zarniwooop]

No one has the right to all the yard trash in Unrest.

Period.

[Lazortag]

I think people are just going to have to stop hunting in unrest at low levels. It's not a big zone anyways so this issue is bound to manifest itself in one way or another. Yeah it does suck, but there are plenty of other great dungeons to hunt in.

[Omnimorph]

I've always been of the opinion that if someone is being PLed they should go to a less popular zone. The likes of unrest is always going to be popular, and it has a low mob population, so go to sola, runnyeye or something.

But then i do understand there are people who will see someone camping something, and logic dictates that they're killing all the spawns so it's their camp, but some individuals will come up and say they can't camp it all and quote server rules to force them to share...

[Ploppy]

Seems like a lack of communication on both sides. Generally if someone is PLing and I need a few mobs I send a FRIENDLY tell asking if they minded me getting ina few kills as able. That has never not worked. If I had been refused I would just go hunt a hundred other spots a level 10 can hunt and make a mental note to avoid the selfish player in the future. On the other hand when I have been PLing and someone has asked me for certain mobs I always give them the camp they want. It has never once been an issue as long as both parties communicate. Think about the bigger picture. You're level 10. It's not like there aren't plenty of mobs available for everyone. They may have the mobs you want, but it's not like they have a monopoly on level 10 mobs. Better just to let it lie and move along imo. Some people are pretty selfish and from my experience, life is easier to just avoid them. Karma will catch up to selfish players on a server this small. I wouldn't sweat it too much and definitely don't judge a guild based on a couple players.

[Uthgaard]

Great post, but the whole thing might have been avoided if you initiated the dialogue first. I'm sure the PL team could have left a corner of mobs untouched for you and your buddy to camp. All you have to do is ask.

This. It's up to you to attempt to resolve it first. This simple concept eludes many people, but it's the #1 reason camp disputes piss me off. Petition only after an attempt to reach some reasonable resolution on your own has failed.

That said, camps are not defined by all a party can keep dead. Monopolizing an entire zone is not kosher. If a person insists on acting like the only person in the zone, I'll put them in a different one so they are. If that person comes back or continues to be a pain in my ass somewhere else, the only thing they wind up camping is server select. The xp isn't very good there.

[Vonkaar]

Ooooh, server select zone sounds fun. How do I get there?

[eqravenprince]

In my opinion, you kind of miss the point of playing on this server if you are being powerleveled. I've never been powerleveled, nor would I want to be. My friend who wants me to get up to his level should just create an alt to go with my new character. But some people don't enjoy the journey, they want to get to the endgame as soon as possible. For me that's when I start a new alt.

Anyhow, onto the point of the original post, if I see someone powerleveling like that I just go find another zone to hunt in. Doesn't mean I like it, but I really don't want to fight it either. I got tired of dealing with powerlevelers in Blackburrow, so I went to Erud's Crossing. It's been a nice change of pace, more relaxing there. Increased my alchohol tolerance and fishing skill while there too =).

[Deathrydar]

Ooooh, server select zone sounds fun. How do I get there?

OMG! He gave away my secret xp spot!

[Dulu]

To make matters worse, it was probably a guy dual boxing for his alt, and not two people.

You're lucky you are atleast playing with a friend. I have no one to play with, and I'm having similar experiences.

[Extunarian]

I really think this person would have allowed you to have a section of the yard to yourself if you had asked politely. My experiences with PL'ers has been almost 100% positive when I approach them and ask if I can grab a few spawns here and there. In most cases they oblige, or just move. And in a couple cases they simply invited me to join the group and get PLed with them (thanks Sapentia :) )

That said, if you run into a rare group of PL'ers who disregard your polite requests, I'd say feel free to start peeling them off or petition.

[Glaani]

it's not worth being a douche

This ^^.

I value my reputation as a friendly player far too much to ever want to be perceived as a jerk.

[Dantes]

Unrest is an overcamped shithole. Come to guk, that's where the cool kids hang out.

[Virtuosos]

guk use to be the main-zone to train at when i leveld up, sol a was highly camped too....


:( i miss king room camps and feeling like I was apart of the only group in the zone that could do it...being able to say "yeah im camping king....what of it?" was a great feeling :p

[Asher]

I really think this person would have allowed you to have a section of the yard to yourself if you had asked politely. My experiences with PL'ers has been almost 100% positive when I approach them and ask if I can grab a few spawns here and there. In most cases they oblige, or just move. And in a couple cases they simply invited me to join the group and get PLed with them (thanks Sapentia :) )

That said, if you run into a rare group of PL'ers who disregard your polite requests, I'd say feel free to start peeling them off or petition.

*** Playing a little Devil's advocate ***

What does an area of the yard entitle them to exactly?

From my experience areas like this are FCFS. If player A pulls the mob it is his and if player B pulls the mob it is his. You can sit in any corner you want and pull whatever unengaged mob you see up but don't go stealing mobs that I pulled. If my mana is good and I want to pull a mob I see up I am going to pull it. I am not going to leave it for you if you are not currently ready to engage the mob.

In situations like this one of these two "groups" are going to have to leave or deal with crappy experience of fighting over limited spawns. Unless of course the PLer wishes to join forces.

IMO, FCFS is the best way to handle it. Don't pull other peoples mobs but if the mob is sitting there unengaged it is FCFS. If you aren't happy with the amount of mobs your group is currently able to pull then move to a different camp.

I respect name mobs in a camp if the camp is called but I kill trash if I see it.


Yitro - 45 Wizard

[Zarcath]

You're supposed to train them, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.

[gprater]

You're supposed to train them, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.

I like me some good Conan quotes!

[Extunarian]

*** Playing a little Devil's advocate ***

You are describing more of a scenario where there are two groups - of appropriate levels for the content - pulling the same FFA content. I agree with everything you said in that case.

This thread is talking about when a low player is being aided by one or more high level players, and with that aid the lowbie is able to hold down a far greater number of mobs than they could alone. It isn't fair in that case to say "well my level 50 druid has the mana for more pulls, so I'm not going to let that group of level 10's have anything."

In that case the power levelers should try to let regular XP groups have a chance at some mobs, and in my experience they usually are OK to share. If they don't want to share and insist on trying to own the whole zone, then as Uthgaard posted they are going to face consequences from the server staff.

[Zarniwooop]

This. It's up to you to attempt to resolve it first. This simple concept eludes many people, but it's the #1 reason camp disputes piss me off. Petition only after an attempt to reach some reasonable resolution on your own has failed.

That said, camps are not defined by all a party can keep dead. Monopolizing an entire zone is not kosher. If a person insists on acting like the only person in the zone, I'll put them in a different one so they are. If that person comes back or continues to be a pain in my ass somewhere else, the only thing they wind up camping is server select. The xp isn't very good there.


Now THAT is what you want to hear from the people running the server.

[Sparkin]

I feel your pain, I detest PLers that go into well-populated areas. If I were going to PL somebody in that level range, I'd go somewhere like Permafrost or Runnyeye. Especially since the high lvl was a druid there's no excuse to me since it makes it that much easier to get around.

At the same time, I don't get how you can't get some mobs in that situation. Were there other ppl camping different sides of the house or what? The druid can only be in one place at a time, and disease cloud has a pretty quick cast. Were you checking on the mobs in the maze n stuff too? Those are decent to hunt through for solo / duo to get some kills when mobs are tough to find.

I know it can be frustrating to run around and not see a thing up while the guy has 6 mobs on him, but at the same time, if the druid runs around and can't find anything while he sees you and another group killing your own mobs, and sees this often enough, he might reconsider PLing there. Don't give up, fight the PL jerks!

[Combo]

If you ask PL-er's for your own share, they'll typically give it to you, either by leaving some mobs alone or even helping out your own group.

Part of it is people just being polite. There are plenty of those types on this server.

The other, larger part of it is that they're scared they're going to get in trouble. Pulling Unrest like in the OP's description may as well be painting a target on your back for a "monopolizing content" petition.

It's the prisoner's game. Everyone plays nice, everyone profits in the long run. Someone decides to be a greedy fuck, everyone suffers in the long run.