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View Full Version : The "What were they thinking?" thread


Darklake
11-15-2010, 06:19 AM
That gorge in East Karanas to the High Pass zone.

Dev 1 : Hang on, East Karana isn't nearly as wide as West Karana, let's put this long-assed snaking gorge in, that'll add another 5 minutes.
Dev 2 : Yeah. You know what will be cool too? Have two paths, one high and one low; but get this - the low one is a dead end!
Dev 1 : Cool! That'll add another 10 minutes. Tell you what, let's not put any mobs in there either.
Dev 2 : That's just mean.
Dev 1 : Ok, I'll just put one in.


What's your favourite "WTF?" area of Norrath?

audacity
11-15-2010, 06:28 AM
From BB to DC, what the fuck is up with that 10 min walk to zone, and there isn't SHIT in there!

Sparkin
11-15-2010, 06:29 AM
When I think of that canyon, its love, hate, love. I love finally reaching the end. I love the context it adds to Highpass. Highpass really has a unique feel to it, and that long path adds to the feel of it being wayyy up in the mountains.

Of course when I'm running that bitch, its another story!

Anyways, regardless of what the devs were thinking, I don't think its all bad. Just another one of the many ways tedium adds to the immersion of Norrath.

Itchybottom
11-15-2010, 06:39 AM
I always felt that the guards in EverQuest were too high level for their areas. I understand why, I just think it defeats some of the immersion. Captain Silvermoon in Greater Faydark for example, could walk into Crushbone and get rid of the orc hordes in a matter of minutes. Deputy Budo in Misty Thicket could handle Lord Pickclaw just with dirty looks.

Glorfinrod
11-15-2010, 07:44 AM
Items that have both int and wis. WTF?

Quineloe
11-15-2010, 07:48 AM
That gorge in East Karanas to the High Pass zone.

Dev 1 : Hang on, East Karana isn't nearly as wide as West Karana, let's put this long-assed snaking gorge in, that'll add another 5 minutes.
Dev 2 : Yeah. You know what will be cool too? Have two paths, one high and one low; but get this - the low one is a dead end!
Dev 1 : Cool! That'll add another 10 minutes. Tell you what, let's not put any mobs in there either.
Dev 2 : That's just mean.
Dev 1 : Ok, I'll just put one in.


What's your favourite "WTF?" area of Norrath?cmon you know perfectly well that both Devs in your example are named "Brad McQuaid"

Snigel
11-15-2010, 07:48 AM
Being able to single pull humanoid mobs when they are in clear line of sight of a couple of friends.

Lazortag
11-15-2010, 10:01 AM
Items that have both int and wis. WTF?

Some of these make sense (Golden Efreeti Boots for example) because it means they don't have to make an item for boots of the same quality for priest classes. However, some items (like Gnoll Hide Tome?) make no sense at all since only Int classes can use them, but they provide both stats.

Mcbard
11-15-2010, 10:51 AM
When I think of that canyon, its love, hate, love. I love finally reaching the end. I love the context it adds to Highpass. Highpass really has a unique feel to it, and that long path adds to the feel of it being wayyy up in the mountains.

Of course when I'm running that bitch, its another story!

Anyways, regardless of what the devs were thinking, I don't think its all bad. Just another one of the many ways tedium adds to the immersion of Norrath.

Yup, I love the gorge for the same reason.

hedbonker
11-15-2010, 11:17 AM
Caster stats on melee only items: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1813

WTF is that????

Lickum
11-15-2010, 11:30 AM
Dev1 : Snakes aren't doing enough damage!
Dev 2 : Give them the ability to kick!
Dev 1 : Nerfing monks.

Djinn
11-15-2010, 11:44 AM
Racial Exp penalties.

Seriously, wtf were they thinking? :D

Dr4z3r
11-15-2010, 11:47 AM
Ravenscale Head.

The already-linked Indolicite Boots.

The Totemic armor piece with INT.

The Agility stat.

Etc...

azeth
11-15-2010, 11:52 AM
Items that have both int and wis. WTF?

WTF moments:

Vermiculated Armor
Vah Shir instead of Kerrans
end.

guineapig
11-15-2010, 11:55 AM
I always felt that they screwed up the continent of Odus by not adding any true mid-high level content at launch.

By the time the Hole was released everyone was already set in their ways on where to level up on classic content and Kunark was already out too. That continent is so underused it's kind of sad.

(Yes they tried to make it right again years later and I guess they somewhat succeeded with still more zones and more zone connections to newer content. But that just proves my point that it was a huge mistake in the first place that needed to be remedied.)

Lanvaren
11-15-2010, 11:56 AM
Did you ever stop to think that the way from High Pass to Freeport is flat, yet the way from High Pass to Qeynos is not (you go down that long gorge)

WTF is up with the ocean?

Two different levels in two different places.

guineapig
11-15-2010, 12:00 PM
Did you ever stop to think that the way from High Pass to Freeport is flat, yet the way from High Pass to Qeynos is not (you go down that long gorge)

WTF is up with the ocean?

Two different levels in two different places.

I always figured that the Karanas were in a valley, possibly below sea level.
There is also a very gradual incline in Kithicor. (not enough to account for the change in elevation of course). But yes, you are correct, the continents are not exactly "anatomically correct". :p

Darklake
11-15-2010, 12:08 PM
Did you ever stop to think that the way from High Pass to Freeport is flat, yet the way from High Pass to Qeynos is not (you go down that long gorge)

Never thought of that :-)

If you go Kithicor - RV - Misty - Runneyeye - Gorge of King Xorbb - EK I'm sure it's still flat - next time I do the Stein run I'll take a look at the Z readings :-)

Lyrik
11-15-2010, 12:13 PM
Doesn't Kithicor slowly incline a bit and then some more at the end? It's certainly not as dramatic as EK.

hedbonker
11-15-2010, 12:16 PM
Runneyeye is actually a fair bit higher than RV in MT. Also when you enter the gorge from EK, you go way down the ramp - Makes little sense overall.

OngorDrakan
11-15-2010, 12:52 PM
I loved Odus, but think it was always a deserted island. The Kerrans do drop lots of goodies though, gems n money.

Foxboxx
11-15-2010, 01:53 PM
I always figured that the Karanas were in a valley, possibly below sea level.
If I remember correctly, there's a waterfall near the druid camp at the end of the East Karana river, which certainly supports the theory of the Karanas being quite a bit lower than other areas.

Dr4z3r
11-15-2010, 01:57 PM
If I remember correctly, there's a waterfall near the druid camp at the end of the East Karana river, which certainly supports the theory of the Karanas being quite a bit lower than other areas.

A large waterfall is visible from the Barbarian fishing village at the SE end of EK.

Wildas
11-15-2010, 02:08 PM
I think it would be pretty lame and bland if every item had stats exactly lined up to classes that can use an item. It gives variety and makes it so there's not always one clear best item set for a slot.

mgellan
11-15-2010, 03:14 PM
Totemic Gauntlets! Like the +5 SvC is nice but int on a shm only item? WTF?

Regards,
Mg

BobSmith
11-15-2010, 05:39 PM
One of the things that bugged me until they fixed it was the "tell" you got from an NPC when you cast a damaging spell on them:

A spiderling tells you "I was hit for 10 points of non-melee damage."

No one thought to clean that up in beta? I cannot imagine it was difficult to fix.

Extunarian
11-15-2010, 05:50 PM
Totemic Gauntlets! Like the +5 SvC is nice but int on a shm only item? WTF?

Regards,
Mg

You still go them though, didn't you? :D

I know I did.

MiRo2
11-15-2010, 06:28 PM
There is also a very gradual incline in Kithicor. (not enough to account for the change in elevation of course).

When I have Levitate on and my max FPS set at 100, I hardly sink at all when running. If I run from HK zone line to WC zone line in Kith without looking down, I'm well above the trees by the time I hit the zone wall by WC. It certainly is a gradual increase, but the overall increase is still pretty large.

stormlord
11-15-2010, 06:36 PM
I always felt that the guards in EverQuest were too high level for their areas. I understand why, I just think it defeats some of the immersion. Captain Silvermoon in Greater Faydark for example, could walk into Crushbone and get rid of the orc hordes in a matter of minutes. Deputy Budo in Misty Thicket could handle Lord Pickclaw just with dirty looks.

If they didn't make them so strong than evil players would probably kill them constantly. The higher their level, the less likely this will happen. There're other options. They could make their loot pathetic, but that wouldn't really make sense would it? They could make their faction hurt an evil player, but that wouldn't really make sense either since evil fights good. End result is that there always needs to be guards available so that new players aren't burdened too greatly. So they have to prevent the guards from being unavailable or killed, at least on a consistent basis. It's a balancing issue and especially important for MMOs.

Immersion works best in single player RPGs. It'll never work in MMOs consistently because people are different and do not have the same tolerance. I mean, no one wants to wait for the guy that's still talking to the non-player about the quest (he wants to feel immersed in the world), so they run off and tell him to come or they'll kick him from the group and invite someone else. That's pretty much how it works. In MMOs we're all pushed to go at the same pace, and when we can go at our own, it's basically a single player RPG being re-marketed as an "MMO" and given a new face. Community > You. Sucks for immersion. This is why MMO's can sometimes feel like a job. It's not that what you're doing isn't fun, it's that you feel responsible for your community of friends and party members. It's like when we're in a group (on project1999). If your group needs you, like if you're a healer, you don't want to ditch them for minor reasons, so you often stay against your wishes. It becomes more like a job than something that's fun because you want to be there for them (but not yourself). It's a tug-of-war. And it will always remain that way if it's a true MMO.

I've been around forever so don't school me. I've never met an MMO that met my particular immersive desires. The only way I've ever truly met my immersive standards is by downloading mods for single player games and customizing the experience to ME. Sure, I can play an mmo alone (by soloing). I can even pick an MMO that's in reality a single-player game and play that. It's not the best, though. And at the end of the day, I like to sometimes play MMO's because I like to see other people. When I get tired of always being rushed and not feeling immersed, then I pick up a single player game. That's how it has happened for me.

*************

My addition to this "What were they thinking?" is.... what were they thinking when they made the clothspinner merchant in south qeynos move from the crows tavern to the blacksmith and when when you hail her to buy/sell she resumes moving again in about 10 seconds and the window is lost. I mean, all that needs to be done is to make her pause for a longer period after she's hailed. AS it's now, you have to hail her over and over and over every 5 or 10 seconds if she's doing her waypoints.

stormlord
11-15-2010, 07:03 PM
I think it would be pretty lame and bland if every item had stats exactly lined up to classes that can use an item. It gives variety and makes it so there's not always one clear best item set for a slot.

This is kind of what sony did with this game, over time. If you examine the history of items you will see that, at least initially, there was a lot of variety. But as time went on you would increasingly see item sets and item hierarchy that's simply extrapolated from one expansion to the next. So what you would get is something like a 5% increase in all stats and a couple extra mods here and there, but overall the items would pretty much be exactly hte same. You can't really design a character with one thing in mind because most items in modern EQ are very generic and it's mainly the grade of the item that matters not so much its unique characteristics. I'm not saying that items can't be distinct, but there's a very pronounce generic feel to modern items in this game.

Believe it or not, some people like simple cookie-cutter items. There's one single player game i'm interested in and there's a guy that complains that there're too many magical items with stats. He says he doesn't want to look at the items to see which ones he should use because it's too complicated and that's not why he plays RPGs. HOnestly, I don't understand his viewpoint. I love complicated item systems, it gives me something to do. But, everyone plays RPGs differently, so...

I'm a hobbyist programmer with a degree in computers so I guess my background influences my tastes. I love to be confused by an elaborate system. The last thing I want is something that's cut and dry. I love to be thrown in a loop.

Simplicity is a turn off for me. That doesn't mean that people who disagree with me on an issue are stupid or simplistic. It might be that they spend more time doing other things like examining quests and roleplaying their character. Maybe they focus more on the whole than I do. I love to get lost in the details. At least there's enough games and mods out there for everyone to be happy.

This all just underlines for me the value of single player games. With those, I can have an experience customized for me.

stormlord
11-15-2010, 07:23 PM
I always felt that they screwed up the continent of Odus by not adding any true mid-high level content at launch.

By the time the Hole was released everyone was already set in their ways on where to level up on classic content and Kunark was already out too. That continent is so underused it's kind of sad.

(Yes they tried to make it right again years later and I guess they somewhat succeeded with still more zones and more zone connections to newer content. But that just proves my point that it was a huge mistake in the first place that needed to be remedied.)

I mostly agree. If you start as an erudite and play through it you hit a dead end. It's sad.

Spud
11-15-2010, 07:33 PM
Did you ever stop to think that the way from High Pass to Freeport is flat, yet the way from High Pass to Qeynos is not (you go down that long gorge)

WTF is up with the ocean?

Two different levels in two different places.

I cant believe i have never thought of this before. what the hell??

How about innothule swamp being about 200 yards away from a arid desert? I know the game was designed in the nineties on a certain budget, but its just silly to think about.

About the city guards, they could just make them give little exp when you kill them, problem solved?

Itemization stuff like intelligence on warrior boots only bothers me when it comes to class specific armor sets. I'd rather wear the whole suit of armor because it looks much nicer, but i'm not if it will hurt my character's stats. So I end up looking like rainbow?

Not putting a higher level dungeon in odus is really a shame I totally agree. If you had another dungeon along the lines of Lguk/Solb all the way in Odus would stretch the game world out and make it less freeport-centric. Alot of time is invested exping in your 40/50s and attempting to get certain rare drops in Solb/Lguk. Placing a high lvl dungeon in Odus with a few rare and valuable item drops would of made the western part of norrath actually matter.

Snakes kicking has always been the most WTF moment to me personaly. I mean they are SNAKES. I could see if it was a giant rat kicking your or a bat kicking you, which would be pretty 'wtf' in itself , but we are talking SNAKE, it has no limbs to speak of.

I just ran by the GIBS room in Lguk. Always thought it was a pretty weird room. The only skeleton mobs in the whole dungeon and theyre all in one random room toghether?

stormlord
11-15-2010, 07:38 PM
I cant believe i have never thought of this before. what the hell??

How about innothule swamp being about 200 yards away from a arid desert? I know the game was designed in the nineties on a certain budget, but its just silly to think about.

About the city guards, they could just make them give little exp when you kill them, problem solved?

Itemization stuff like intelligence on warrior boots only bothers me when it comes to class specific armor sets. I'd rather wear the whole suit of armor because it looks much nicer, but i'm not if it will hurt my character's stats. So I end up looking like rainbow?

Not putting a higher level dungeon in odus is really a shame I totally agree. If you had another dungeon along the lines of Lguk/Solb all the way in Odus would stretch the game world out and make it less freeport-centric. Alot of time is invested exping in your 40/50s and attempting to get certain rare drops in Solb/Lguk. Placing a high lvl dungeon in Odus with a few rare and valuable item drops would of made the western part of norrath actually matter.

Snakes kicking has always been the most WTF moment to me personaly. I mean they are SNAKES. I could see if it was a giant rat kicking your or a bat kicking you, which would be pretty 'wtf' in itself , but we are talking SNAKE, it has no limbs to speak of.

I just ran by the GIBS room in Lguk. Always thought it was a pretty weird room. The only skeleton mobs in the whole dungeon and theyre all in one random room toghether?

You also have to prevent griefing. Not easy. And would it make sense that guards would have sucky experience/loot? If we turn the argument around it's not much different. We're saying does it make sense that they're so strong? So on one hand immersion seekers are complaining that it doesn't make sense that they're this strong. On the other an evil player is complaining that the guards are sucky loot/experience and shouldn't be because it's too artificial and not like the rest of the game.

Bushwick
11-15-2010, 10:07 PM
"I am the god of fear, wrathful and immensely powerful. I will confine myself to a small grass field, decorated with Halloween lawn ornaments I picked up at Walmart and a couple inexplicable pieces of architecture. I created entire races of beings that populate Norrath, but choose to hang out with zombies all day. Am I holding this sword right?"

Japan
11-15-2010, 10:39 PM
"I am the god of fear, wrathful and immensely powerful. I will confine myself to a small grass field, decorated with Halloween lawn ornaments I picked up at Walmart and a couple inexplicable pieces of architecture. I created entire races of beings that populate Norrath, but choose to hang out with zombies all day. Am I holding this sword right?"

this is one for the ages.

MiRo2
11-15-2010, 11:41 PM
How about innothule swamp being about 200 yards away from a arid desert? I know the game was designed in the nineties on a certain budget, but its just silly to think about.

Because the desert of Ro used to be a forest till Solusek Ro burned it to the ground, now its a desert.

Dumesh Uhl'Belk
11-16-2010, 01:10 AM
Because the desert of Ro used to be a forest till Solusek Ro burned it to the ground, now its a desert.
...and there were tasty elves there for the trolls to eat!

odizzido
11-16-2010, 01:25 AM
The fact that the landscape can totally change from one zone to the next is one of the things I love about EQ and something that I miss in every new MMO I try.

As for my "what were they thinking?" moment.....when they added POK books on the PVP servers.

Jarnin
11-16-2010, 02:21 AM
As for my "what were they thinking?" moment.....when they added POK books on the PVP servers.
I'm a firm believer that the PoK books were probably one of the worst additions to the game on any server. I could understand wanting to allow players that were 46+ access to all that, but noobs? It made no sense to go from one of the hardest games for noobs to travel in to the easiest.

Not to mention that the Lecterns were in the middle of nowhere! It's not like they popped up in a city library (which is where they should have been put all along). Talk about a immersion breaker.

RKromwell
11-16-2010, 02:39 AM
Blackburrow.

Here you have a large cave system filled with gnolls, between Qeynos and Halas. I am sorry but they would have been wiped out. It is the only way between the two cities, someone should have said...ok, they need to go.

Extunarian
11-16-2010, 10:39 AM
I think Halas would have been the one that gets wiped out. They are adjacent to a dragon, have no agricultural infrastructure as far as I can tell, and their supply line to qeynos is blocked by gnolls.

Not to mention if they ever were attacked the shaman would cast a couple GHeals on the warriors before gating to EC and the rogues would just hide/sneak to Qeynos.

Dr4z3r
11-16-2010, 10:51 AM
I did some /loc-ing in Kith last night. The terrain is definitely much higher on the HPH side.

mgellan
11-16-2010, 11:12 AM
You still go them though, didn't you? :D

I know I did.

Yeah but still ... :)

Regards,
Mg

adam9242
11-16-2010, 04:52 PM
Did you ever stop to think that the way from High Pass to Freeport is flat, yet the way from High Pass to Qeynos is not (you go down that long gorge)

WTF is up with the ocean?

Two different levels in two different places.

The Atlantic and Pacific oceans are at different levels, that's why the Panama canal has a series of locks ships have to pass through.

Glorfinrod
11-16-2010, 04:57 PM
The Atlantic and Pacific oceans are at different levels, that's why the Panama canal has a series of locks ships have to pass through.

There must be a waterfall at Magellan's pass then right? ;p

Bizarostormy
11-16-2010, 05:44 PM
The Atlantic and Pacific oceans are at different levels, that's why the Panama canal has a series of locks ships have to pass through.

That is because the lake they pass through is higher than sea level, not because different oceans have different water levels (they are all connected look at a globe).

Peatree
11-16-2010, 05:51 PM
My favorite was watching the wooly mammoths fall from the sky on cool winter nights in Halas...who knew they had safe fall?

quellren
11-16-2010, 05:58 PM
That is because the lake they pass through is higher than sea level, not because different oceans have different water levels (they are all connected look at a globe).

Any minute one of the infamous RnF professors is gonna pop in here to pontificate and show us all how well they can google, so, I'll just say it:

According to NASA, and several other super-scientific agencies that measure shit all precise-like, the surface of the Pacific Ocean *IS* actually higher higher than the Atlantic. It's only a couple feet, but there is a difference.

Glorfinrod
11-17-2010, 07:37 PM
Actually google says it's only 20cm.. less than the difference the tides make.

quellren
11-18-2010, 01:33 PM
What the hell was Sony thinking making the Shaman Spirit Wolf pet not have innate SPIRIT OF THE WOLF?

Knightmare
11-19-2010, 06:19 PM
I think it would be pretty lame and bland if every item had stats exactly lined up to classes that can use an item. It gives variety and makes it so there's not always one clear best item set for a slot.

I'm not exactly sure how making something 'not so clear' is a good thing. :confused:

I'm pretty sure this doesn't translate well to other areas..

Sorry about the damage officer, the yellow line was not so clear..

Yes I amputated your leg, the real problem with it was not so clear...

I wasn't trying to fire that ballistic missile sir, the controls just were not so clear..

Being clear is rarely a "lame" thing imho. But hey, by all means, if that is your thing, please do continue to carry on with your confused but seemingly cool lifestyle. :)

Polixenes
04-12-2011, 02:28 PM
An oldie thread but a fun one.

The river at the zoneline between Firiona Vie and Lake of Ill Omen runs downhill in both directions.

Druids can improve their faction with some people by turning into a tree. "Oooh, what a lovely tree this is inspecting my wares, I'll definitely offer him a better price than that shifty halfling that was here a moment ago..."

Kika Maslyaka
04-12-2011, 03:11 PM
same goes for buying from sneak - apparently merhcants like more those who check for prices from behind their back, hiding around a conner=)

Rael
04-12-2011, 03:43 PM
Devs: Let's make a game where the mobs are so disproportionately more powerful than player characters the only viable way most classes can solo things is by continuously running away from them! So realistic!

Extunarian
04-12-2011, 03:54 PM
I'm glad this thread was bumped...only because I welcome any opportunity to see peatree's avatar.

Kika Maslyaka
04-12-2011, 04:09 PM
on the item design inconsistances (like INT on War gear etc)
You need to keep in mind that original devs were heavy DnD geeks (not that anything wrong with that), but they translated some of DnD concepts into EQ to directly.

In original design INT was resposible for the rate at which you learn your combat skills and your Trade Skills - so even as warrior, INT was good, cuase it made you skill up those combat skills faster, and of course everyone needed INt for crafting.

A bit later (after game has been out for a while), devs realized that due to racial/class combos, some classes just out to fall behind A LOT, specialy compared to those classes, for whom INT was a natural stat, so they changed it that the only STAT influencing crafting was the one which was the highest one - so if you had big STR, then Crafting bonus would come from STR, etc.

This of course automaticaly made all non class specific stats useless and pointless.
Another big mistake was locking caster class essentialy into a single stat progression.
casters don't care for anything but INT (gains from STA are so insignificant, that pure +hp items always better)
priests dn't care for anythign but WIS
AGI is generaly useless to anyone but monks (you get +1% dodge for each 100 AGI - so with whooping 255 AGI you get +2.5%), while from Dodge skill 100 - you get 10% (numbers are not exact but close)
and so on.

Hybrids are pretty much the only clases who have benefit from greatest number of stats

What they should have done instead, is make INT give mana (for all classes), while WIS would boost mana regen rate (drop meditation) or increase spell power (vs resists) - this way to both priests and caster both stats would be valuable.

Anyway, the list of "what should have been done differently" can go on forewer, but of course most everyone here, likes EQ regadless of all that ;)

Excision Rottun
04-12-2011, 04:28 PM
The river at the zoneline between Firiona Vie and Lake of Ill Omen runs downhill in both directions.

Clearly the river is fed by an underground spring on the LOIO side where the fish mobs are.

Mcbard
04-12-2011, 04:54 PM
Clearly the river is fed by an underground spring on the LOIO side where the fish mobs are.

Yah I kind of thought that pool in loio was a spring as well..

Felizcat
04-12-2011, 05:00 PM
Orc, Derv, Gnoll, Aviak, Sarnak and Goblin camps, having dozens of corpses lying around and nobody comes looking who caused that, or in the case of Gnome watchmen runs away in fear to be never seen again.

Maurk
04-12-2011, 07:07 PM
EATING A BAG OF SALT SHOULD MAKE YOU THIRSTY!!!!

but besides that, I always wondered the purpose of all the different languages.
IMO, it would have been cooler if you needed to use those languages to communicate to certain factions.
i.e. not everyone should speak "common tongue" but rather require you to learn the lingo!!

As of now I have no idea what the purpose of different languages were.

also Shadowkights should have been given Batform (Illusion: Bat) or (Illusion : Vampire bat, at higher levels obv)
like wtf?
why didn't they. I do not understand.

Qwinny
04-12-2011, 07:13 PM
Seriously? A bat? Werewolf makes more sense, or even Frankenstein for that matter, how about a Spectre? But a bat? I don't think Dracula when I see an SK.