Bard Gloves

[Lyrik]

Elf-hide Gloves (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1550) or Lambent Gauntlets (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1613)?

I'm no expert on AGI->AC conversions or the usefulness of the mitigation of AGI but I'm leaning towards Lambent.

Yes no?

[guineapig]

You will get more AC from the Lambent which is the only reason to wear agility gear in the first place.

[Pescador]

Lambent by far. Tons more AC, and every bit of CHA helps as well.

[Lyrik]

Time to go back to Mistmoore :)

[Zarcath]

Raw AC is always better than AGI

[Mcbard]

Lambent by far. Tons more AC, and every bit of CHA helps as well.

This.

[Lyrik]

Snagged what I needed in MM last night - thanks group!

Just a bit more money for the gems...

[Rhalous]

If you have a high level buddy, go farm some Kedgemail Gaunts.

[Ponden]

Snagged what I needed in MM last night - thanks group!

Just a bit more money for the gems...

Come to East Commons and I'll give you gem money.

[Sinder]

question. is lambent really worth all that and a bag of chips? seems like a lot of money and little return over other things for it imho

[Lyrik]

Come to East Commons and I'll give you gem money.

Will be sure to look you up :)

Thanks!

[Pescador]

question. is lambent really worth all that and a bag of chips? seems like a lot of money and little return over other things for it imho

Well worth it IMO. Everything but the helm is loaded with useful stats, and all pieces have higher AC than fine plate with far less weight. You get a few resists, cha, and generally some str or dex or something on top of it. Bards are tough to gear because they get hit a lot (try doing CC duty without gaining aggro...) meaning they need AC / hp / sta, yet they also need CHA for charm / mez and dex to reduce fizzles. Str of course is always useful for weight issues and melee dmg / atk, so really, bards need every melee stat as well as CHA and resists, and lambent provides all of that. Just snag a crested helm or SSB instead of lambent helm and you're good to go.

[Lyrik]

I opted for Exe Hood over SSB/Crested for now because it was cheaper :P

Though next time I am in the market to upgrade that slot, will probably be Crested.

In other news... face slot? (Small Bronze right now - I assume just Mask of Deception when I can get in a group there?) and weapons? (Jambiya/BBK). I think the Kilij is fine to stay where it is, but Runed Falchion maybe Sharkjaw Cutlass? Not that I have any money right now.. hah

[korpse]

I too could use some info on budget weapons for bards. I'm a 12 bard and this dwarven hatchet is bad bad 6/26 1hs. Any infoz appreciated.

[nalkin]

I too could use some info on budget weapons for bards. I'm a 12 bard and this dwarven hatchet is bad bad 6/26 1hs. Any infoz appreciated.

start kiting.

Also, should add that doing melee damage with a bard pretty much pointless. I am by no means a bard expert, but at some point I think its accepted that bards just stop meleeing and only use instruments? At 30 my bard does at most 15 damage per hit, so by the time the DPS kills the mob I have done maybe 100 damage? So I think itd be better to just keep the lute out and strum mana song + 3 others (swapping instruments) than add those huge 15 damage hits.

So, I think slashing weapons are the last thing you should worry about.

[Lyrik]

Mana song is not impacted by instruments. But yes, Bard DPS is bad.

[Pescador]

Once you get all three chants, it's pretty silly to melee anything that can hurt you. You can do about 150 dmg per tick while taking zero dmg, plus you can easily adapt to adds. If you try to melee, you *might* be able to squeeze out some extra dmg, but it's VERY unreliable since bash can interrupt your songs, weapons miss a lot more than dots get resisted, and if you get an add you have to switch to kiting anyways. Plus, you use up a song slot or two on melee buffs, and bards have a hard enough time figuring out how to utilize their song slots as it is.

[nalkin]

Mana song is not impacted by instruments. But yes, Bard DPS is bad.

So at some point do bards just stop meleeing and focus on instrument swapping in groups? Or do no of the group songs really need instruments other than mez?

[Extunarian]

So at some point do bards just stop meleeing and focus on instrument swapping in groups? Or do no of the group songs really need instruments other than mez?

I read quite a bit about this on some other classic boards and I think that as far as normal grouping goes the answer is never. Obviously specific situations might necessitate using an instrument - maybe when resists need to get boosted for a particularly tough caster.

I think the debate really turns against instrument swapping when the epic enters the picture since it works as all instruments.

[Sinder]

Back in the day i was always told to max out hand to hand for grouping so that you can melee a little and focus more on the buffs. in raids some of the songs are massively valuable for resists and the DS effect thats on songs greatly benefits from the focus.

[Lyrik]

My recollection is also that in standard grouping bards always would melee in 1999 (my H2H is now 50 in case I want to melee with a drum, gotta keep working on that tho).

But yeah, raids = drum/lute swapping/twisting.

[Dr4z3r]

Plus, you use up a song slot or two on melee buffs, and bards have a hard enough time figuring out how to utilize their song slots as it is.

The party melee song can be a pretty significant dps boost when you have 2 or more other melee characters in the group, though I agree that trying to find a stable configuration of songs is largely impossible. Selo's and Hymn will never leave my bar, but other than that all bets are off!

[Azazel]

In my experience bards tend to melee in 6 person groups.

Say you can twist 4 songs.

One of them is always going to be manasong, (people get seriously pissy if it isnt going 25/8) that isnt instrument based so no point there.
If there is no enchanter in the group then you are going to want to play a haste song, again haste isnt effected by instruments.

So generally you have 2 slots to play around with, bear in mind then bards do a lot of CC and pulling so if you arent locking down some mobs then you should be running off to pull some more. You arent always going to have time to get in the full 4 instrument twist.

Those two slots though you have lots of options, you could go the DPS route with your chants, This is a viable option and they get a nice DPS boost with a drum, but I really doubt its worth swapping out your weapons for it especially if your grp is killing fast anyway.

There are some nice slow/debuff songs but none of these are instrument based again...

There are the regen songs, nivs preservation and hymn of restoration these get the boost, but I tended to find these are best for downtime, playing both of these with a lute your talking about 27 HP regen per tick, without a lute about 13... again its situational but I tend to find your weapon dmg > than 13 or so HP per tick.

Ok to sum up:
1. A lot of your most important (grouping) songs have no instrument bonus.
2. In a fast killing group a lot of the bonuses you will get from instruments arent always going to be worth it
3. People liked grouping with my bard, I would say however my song knowledge was poor, what I think I did well was my situational awareness. As I say, mana song + haste + CC + pulling. a lot of the time those 2 possible song slots are really not important compared to your ability as a bard to maintain control of the situation and keep a steady flow of mobs inc to the camp.
4. Most importantly of all, its all situational. you have so many abilities as a bard you have to be able to think on fly - there are very few hard and fast rules you can apply to every situation.

heh I just noticed this thread was about gloves .... ooops :) - (Lambent all the way)

Oh there is one important thing i forgot, the latter level mez, the pixie strike one is... wind instruments? That has a magic debuff component which is effected by an instruments. If you are trying to CC multiple mobs that con white/yellow/red then get out your instrument as it will help a ton to keep them locked down.

[Lyrik]

For reference/discussion:

At 30, my standard song lineup (in a group) is:

Anthem/Chant of Battle (no enc/enc) - Singing/Percussion
Restoration - Singing/Stringed
Bellow/Chant DoT (personal whim of the day) - Singing/Percussion
Selos - Singing/Percussion
Psalm of Warmth/Vitality (more wizard mobs, warmth, more shaman/necro mobs, vitality) - Singing/Singing
Consonant Chain - Singing
Lucid Lullaby - Stringed but meh
Pixie Strike - Wind?

My twist during melee is 6/7/8/9 (1/2/3/4/5 are used by weapon slots/inventory slots for instrument swapping)
6: Anthem/Chant of Battle
7: Chain
8: Psalm
9: Restoration

Allows me to always start the twist off at the beginning because during downtime I'm singing Restoration. I lull a lot when pulling and try to pull with proximity aggro more than damage aggro so it can be peeled off easier. If I'm really familiar with spawns I may pixie strike pull a group so one is delayed 18s. Also since (barring an enc) 3/4 songs are singing only, there's little use in pulling out an instrument. When people are low or mana is scarce I am more apt to swap to a lute while waiting for pulls, but if I'm pulling I use either heal song/selos on myself for pulls.

Not sure what I'm going to do when mana song appears. I guess hymn of restoration goes away? Gotta have a ranged song to pull in certain circumstances so I can't get rid of bellow...

When I'm soloing, I swap out things that don't matter like anthem/chant and sometimes lull so I can have both bellow and chant dot up as well as aoe fear incase I want to fear/snare/dot/bellow/fear/snare/dot/bellow while auto attacking (allowing the bellow or dot to drop off to handle resists of snare/fear).

[Azazel]

hey Lyrik,
I used shruikens to pull. This frees up an extra slot and also has the benifit that the pull is instant: you hit the button, the mobs comes. With bellow you wait 3~ secs for it to hit... this can be a big deal if your trying to grab something before another pathing mobs wanders into agro range.

[Lyrik]

I haven't gone with throwing weapons because of my Dragoon Dirk in ranged slot...will think about it tho.

[Azazel]

yah with bards its all swings and roundabouts