Is this rocket science??

[Morningbreath]

Seriously how hard would it be for Daybreak to take the original gameplay and zone layout of Everquest and just graphically update it?

Hard difficulty games still sell in today's gaming market. We don't know if a challenging MMO would be successful now because nobody's had the balls to try making one since 2003.

I enjoy P99 because of nostalgia; I accept the graphics where a new player coming in probably wouldn't. It may not be feasible for the P99 devs to put in some improvements to the geometry of the zones and mobs to make them more realistic but surely Daybreak has enough to help to make it happen.

[indiscriminate_hater]

bring back the compass

[curtischoy]

Look up Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
Lead guy is the same as the lead guy from original EQ. Hopefully it will actually get made.

[Pyrocat]

"how hard could it be?" -someone who's never programmed a day in their life, especially one who's never worked with a legacy codebase written 16 years ago.

[JackFlash]

SoE didn't even have money to make new content without recycling after a while. And they owned the first MMO to make it big time. Times change, people think they want something different, realize different sucks >>> commence nostalgia......

Oh yeah and that whole coding thing! Sounds like you need a time machine my friend.

[Swish]

EQ Next is as good as dead OP (its on that same engine I think)... they'd rather you got H1Z1 and opened some CS:GO style crates :/

[Pringles]

I agree - redo classic EQ with a revamped engine, keep the same gameplay / "features" / penalties as classic EQ, dont fail at marketing / launch, dont go Pay2Win (charge me a monthly subscription fee), and see what happens.

I'd buy it.

[pyroglyphix]

I accept the graphics where a new player coming in probably wouldn't.

If new players can't even get past the graphics, they're going to have a rough time.

[JackFlash]

I agree - redo classic EQ with a revamped engine, keep the same gameplay / "features" / penalties as classic EQ, dont fail at marketing / launch, dont go Pay2Win (charge me a monthly subscription fee), and see what happens.

I'd buy it.

Do the projections. I doubt the investment would be worth it. I find it hard to believe anyone could recreate the 1000's and 1000's of hours the original devs. and now Nilbog and his volunteers have put in. We're talkin
BIG BUCKS to re-create.

[Swish]

It would end up more like that EQ console game lol

[fastboy21]

Do the projections. I doubt the investment would be worth it. I find it hard to believe anyone could recreate the 1000's and 1000's of hours the original devs. and now Nilbog and his volunteers have put in. We're talkin
BIG BUCKS to re-create.

This.

Without the entirely volunteer team's investment of (totally free) time P99 wouldn't be viable. An entirely new game that only gets interest from a small niche of gamers isn't going to be profitable.

It isn't just an EQ problem...most MMOs don't make money and fail. Companies have realized over the last few years that the old model of investing millions into MMO production with the hope of scoring a homerun (i.e the "WoW Killer") just isn't realistic.

Its easier to make a game with low overhead and micro-transactions...and much more likely to be more profitable. Why make EQNext? It is going to take forever and most likely fail. Make Candycrush instead. Stay cheap. Stay profitable.

Brad is aiming at the niche market that he knows well. He will probably hit a homerun, but not as a wow-killer. It will be a homerun with his small niche market....which is what he is aiming for.

[LostCause]

wildstar already tried to make a "hard" mmo look where its at now.

[trite]

Pure speculation but as a software developer, here is what I'm thinking. The easiest path to updated graphics would be if you left all zone and object geometry the same and tried to update individual object models' textures. This would allow for slight visual improvements without any changes to pathing or information about where particular objects should be rendered. This is what Verant did pre-Luclin. Making changes to zone geometry and models requires artists to provide the new content, modifications to whatever tool you use to edit your maps/zones and updates to the database concerning pathing, spawn points, and zone-in locations.

About Daybreak and classic content. I suspect Daybreak has at least one major issue with providing classic content. That is, even if they were forward thinking enough to create snapshots of the client / server code / database on a per patch basis, once the changes for each patch were merged into the development branch those snapshots never got touched again and lack the logic for bug fixes and protocol changes since they were released. If this is the case they could always release a second client with minor changes to account for updates to windows / directx / having two clients installed on the same machine, host a second login server and start developing from the classic branch they chose to use but now you have two different games to maintain.

[Yasi]

Everquest isn't hard or difficult. It takes a lot of time and commitment maybe, but EQ is basically tank and spank, at least the first six or so expansions.

Let's be honest - in most raids, 50% of the People spent their time facing a wall and clicking one button. I remember Rathe Council as a bard mezzing a mob for 2 hours. I actually went taking showers during the fight or made some delicious Spaghetti. The fact that they included /gems later on and the fact that people were able to multibox whole Groups or even raids tells you, that it wasn't/isn't a hard game.

The big difference to newer games is, EQ takes huge amounts of time to level up. And one can consider this hard, but one can also consider it boring due to the fact that you often spend this time at one place killing the same mob over and over again.

The main reason to still Play EQ is nostalgia. And to create a new game for the nostalgia-people would be a very horrible Investment.

[Monty405]

I'm curious how Brad's project will end up.

I am also curious how he can balance a game between reducing the time commitment necessary to progress while keeping the general game play the same as EQ1.

[drktmplr12]

If you are looking for updated textures, that already exists and it does a pretty nice job of updating the environment.

Figuring out what it will take to get a rocket in space is one thing, actually building something to do it is another. If you think creating/modifying geometries in a 16 year old graphics engine with 0 support isn't rocket science, you may be surprised because its pretty close.

To those talking about nostalgia, ect: IMO, the reason people play EQ is to camp pixels for alts or to sell. I would love for anyone to name any mainstream (or not) MMO where you get to do that.

[Yasi]

Diablo 3, WoW.

[maskedmelon]

Sounds like a good community project. Port to unity or unreal, create thousands of new art assets, dump in p99 database and voila! ^^

[Monty405]

You will still have hoards of "luclin v2.0" graphics haters who hate the updated graphics because of 'X' reason.

For the record, I hate luclin models myself.

[drktmplr12]

Diablo 3, WoW.

Diablo 3 isn't an MMO. It's action RP hack and slash and the world isn't persistent. It's no different from Diablo 2 except there is a marketboard.

WoW you do not establish camps. Ever. You go from quest hub to quest hub, by yourself, until you are max level. Then you run dungeons and raids to get no drop items.

[Issar]

If new players can't even get past the graphics, they're going to have a rough time.

No, they're just not going to play. I had a friend who started MMO's with WoW try P99. He couldn't get past the graphics, so he wiped the sony folder from his HD. There aren't many people who's first EQ experience is P99 that stick with it. There are some that I see on the forums, but not many. And no, SoL Models will not fix that ;)

[jolanar]

They revamped Freeport with better graphics. Everyone hated it. They revamped Nektulos and Lavastorm. Everyone hated it. They even combined the commonlands and desert of ro and everyone hated that too. They updated the models and everyone hated it.

Let's be real. People don't really want EQ with newer graphics.

They want a new game that plays like old school EQ.

[fastboy21]

honestly...the problem with EQ isn't the graphics. even in era, EQ graphics were pretty bad compared to offline games.

the game works. it is immersive enough that once you get into it the graphics really aren't all the important.

[pyroglyphix]

No, they're just not going to play. I had a friend who started MMO's with WoW try P99. He couldn't get past the graphics, so he wiped the sony folder from his HD. There aren't many people who's first EQ experience is P99 that stick with it. There are some that I see on the forums, but not many. And no, SoL Models will not fix that ;)

Their loss.

I imagine these kinds of people also miss out on Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VII, etc.

[fastboy21]

Their loss.

I imagine these kinds of people also miss out on Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VII, etc.

Thats the issue...it isn't just their loss. we all lose because gaming companies devote their best resources to catering to the masses. when the masses taste stinks it mean...well, it means we end up rather playing a 15 year old game than a new one.

if you have kids you had better make it your mission to teach them about good games. i'm frigging counting on you breeders to make the next twenty years of my gaming life better.

[rcasale42]

Such a miserable life it must be, to be so concerned with the latest graphics. The imagination is far more effective, and simpler graphics allow for your imagination to play a greater role.

[Exard3k]

It would end up more like that EQ console game lol

Which one do you mean? Can't say much about Online Adventures, but "Champions of Norrath" was awesome.....although it was a clone of that Baldurs Gate game, I really enjoyed playing it (quit EQ some years before).

[Champion_Standing]

We need another MMO where you fight dragons in corners and stare at walls for hours on end while you LFG. The challenge is immense.

[Fire Beetle]

Fight a fire beetle. Save a dragon.

[Tann]

Such a miserable life it must be, to be so concerned with the latest graphics. The imagination is far more effective, and simpler graphics allow for your imagination to play a greater role.

http://img.ifcdn.com/images/0d27090787f6d629e24cf8fa60a21ee428ef1d84d1cb2d8f50 42baceaaf62d49_1.jpg

[Tann]

Thats the issue...it isn't just their loss. we all lose because gaming companies devote their best resources to catering to the masses. when the masses taste stinks it mean...well, it means we end up rather playing a 15 year old game than a new one.

QFT, and those masses will have their own kids one day creating new masses that want things even easier and more accessible. It's never going to go back to hard or time consuming, p99 is like Jurassic Park but no one is or will ever be interested less about 3000~ people.

[fadetree]

That's why I think our future is with smaller, indie efforts like Brad's latest probable-disaster-but-might-be-great to be.

[pyroglyphix]

QFT, and those masses will have their own kids one day creating new masses that want things even easier and more accessible. It's never going to go back to hard or time consuming, p99 is like Jurassic Park but no one is or will ever be interested less about 3000~ people.

There's plenty of recently released "hard and time consuming" games out that do quite well. While none of them are MMO's in the traditional sense (in fact many of them are indie titles), they're still quite relevant and have much larger audiences than 3000 people.

These all feature aspects of what makes EQ great:

Demon's Souls/Dark Souls/Dark Souls II
Bloodborne
Spelunky
H1Z1
Faster Than Light
Hotline Miami
Destiny
Super Meat Boy
Axiom Verge
Dragon's Dogma
Don't Starve
Shovel Knight
Pillars of Eternity
Rogue Legacy
Binding of Isaac

[Jimjam]

Don't StarveIs this as good as the critically acclaimed Don't Poop* Your Pants?

*word swapped for young eyes ;)

[drktmplr12]

Rogue Legacy is great.

can add La-Mulana to that list. you have to actually figure shit out and the game does nothing to hold your hand.

[fastboy21]

Is this as good as the critically acclaimed Don't Poop* Your Pants?

*word swapped for young eyes ;)

kekekeke

[Tann]

There's plenty of recently released "hard and time consuming" games out that do quite well. While none of them are MMO's in the traditional sense (in fact many of them are indie titles), they're still quite relevant and have much larger audiences than 3000 people.

These all feature aspects of what makes EQ great:

games...

Right but my point was about MMO's, its too big of a risk for companies to try anything other then what the current trend is.. which is easy/accessible shiny graphics and fast action packed gameplay.

Pantheon is a great example, it completely tanked, sure it made money off of a kickstarter which Brad used for cocaine. There was another that had a thread in the off topic section here, forgot the name, it didn't even make it outta kickstarter.

actually a great thread about Pantheon over at Rerolled (http://www.rerolled.org/showthread.php?3460-Pantheon-Rise-of-the-Fallen-1-Thread-in-MMO), 1683 pages and going. It's never coming out but hey they have a new world map!

[Morlaeth]

"how hard could it be?" -someone who's never programmed a day in their life, especially one who's never worked with a legacy codebase written 16 years ago.

#micdrop

[Tirion]

"how hard could it be?" -someone who's never programmed a day in their life, especially one who's never worked with a legacy codebase written 16 years ago.

I came here to say this, but was beaten to it.

[curtischoy]

https://pantheonmmo.com/

[Morningbreath]

"how hard could it be?" -someone who's never programmed a day in their life, especially one who's never worked with a legacy codebase written 16 years ago.

But obviously it CAN be worked with as the P99 devs have proven.

And isn't it amazing what kind of gaming experience you get from devs that really have a passion for the world they're creating instead of trying to make a blockbuster moneymaking machine?

[Man0warr]

The playerbase that want's something like that just isn't there in the modern day MMO crowd. You need investors to front the money for something like that and they wouldn't make their money back on a niche product like that.

[applesauce25r624]

Diablo 3 isn't an MMO. It's action RP hack and slash and the world isn't persistent. It's no different from Diablo 2 except there is a marketboard.

WoW you do not establish camps. Ever. You go from quest hub to quest hub, by yourself, until you are max level. Then you run dungeons and raids to get no drop items.

wow is for pvp. only pussies raid on wow

[Pyrocat]

But obviously it CAN be worked with as the P99 devs have proven.

And isn't it amazing what kind of gaming experience you get from devs that really have a passion for the world they're creating instead of trying to make a blockbuster moneymaking machine?

Absolutely. I have mad respect for the contributors to this Project, most of all nilbog. Not just because he had the original idea and delved into the mess of source code and put a lot of work into it, but because he's had a very clear vision from day 1 of what this server would look like and he 100% stuck to it. Despite fears that banning boxing would kill the server, despite DDoS attacks, despite raiding drama and RnF and persistent trolls and trainers, and despite the constant threat of a C&D he has not wavered in what he wants this server to be.

[jcr4990]

Pantheon is literally the only hope I have left for this genre. If that ends up being Vaporware or Brad royally screws it up then I'm playing P99 til it eventually dies then... I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life.

[stormlord]

If you played on Sullon Zek and preferred it try Wurm Online (http://www.wurmonline.com/) and play on the pvp servers. Wurm Online has some of hte same gameplay features of EQ: corpse runs, slow travel, automatic combat, first-person (it has no 3rd person), small (but noticeable) death penalty, map doesn't have gps, few other things. It's more of a sandbox than rpg, so keep that in mind.

Other than that there're lots of small MMORPGs and MMO sandboxes which have bits and pieces of old EQ. You just have look for it. Some of it's player-run. You won't find anyting which reproduces most or all of it, but some is really good.

Here's an example, but damn, you'll have to do the searching yourself because I don't have the patience:
http://projectgorgon.com/

[maskedmelon]

Pantheon is literally the only hope I have left for this genre. If that ends up being Vaporware or Brad royally screws it up then I'm playing P99 til it eventually dies then... I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life.

With any luck we'll have VGO emu in a couple years ^^

[trite]

Haha yeah what set EQ apart is 1) that it forced you to interact with other players or research outside of the game, "/ooc hey guys, my brother told me to type /ooc and then ask any questions i had. wtf do i do there is no little box that tells me someone wants to give me a quest at a certain place?...." 2) it was a time sink set in a non-instanced world where you weren't automatically rewarded based on how much time you put in, "Person1: Someone is camping Mystic Cloak again I'm never gonna get that item! Person2: Well I talked to the guy and he said he would let us have the camp instead of anyone else!" This gave your pixels prestige because you aren't blindly running through a linear series of quests to obtain items at the same rate as everyone else and may even force more human interaction. 3) Other players were real like you and their ignorance / ill-intentions could mean inconvenience.... "/tell somenewb hey @$$ you just trained the $#!^ out of me and now I'm on the other side of the world and lost two hours of exp... don't you dare steal my camp" The potential for negative interactions with players increases immersion rather than detracts from it and is one of the best parts of the game...

[jarshale]

Well first off because EQ is ancient and no one wants to pay for it, especially not enough people to pay for an entire rehaul of an mmo. It's not as simple as just swapping around some textures or whatever you're imagining.