Poll: Rotation Or Not

[Dach]

What do the people say?

[Dach]

So for the past month or so I've been talking to various guilds about a "Calendar Alliance". Vesica Dei, The Mystical Order, Divinity, Blackwater, Darkwind, Bregan D'Aerth, Peace Pipe, Dark Ascension, yes even IB. All guilds capable of doing at the very least planar raids, some minibosses, and some the big boys.

All at the very least "interested" in seeing an alternative to poopsocking. Or an alternative to the constant friction on the server.

I've also spent considerable time doing research online trying to find what made Rotations work/fail in the past. I've looked at probably 10 different systems (including the one used here on P99 back in the day).

The general consensus is this:

Everquest is about general respect for the community as a whole. We are all here playing on P99 becuz for whatever reason it may be, we want to have fun in a game we enjoyed for so many years in the past. Some people have fun doing the batphone mob domination. Some are more casual and just enjoy the social aspect of the game. Some just enjoy flipping items in EC.

Regardless, in order for a Calendar System to work - it needs to be based on 1 simple principle. Respect.

Smaller guilds need to respect the size, ability, and desires of the bigger guilds. And the bigger guilds need to respect the fact that some guilds just simply don't have the time to batphone members at 5am, or have 15 people sitting in Permafrost for days on end, yet still have the ability to do the mob in question.

In order for a calendar system to work properly - it needs to address both sides of the argument. You need to make sure the larger guilds are able to maintain considerable leverage on certain raid targets. You need to make sure the "thrill of the chase" is not removed from the game. And you need to also respect the fact that small and mid-sized guilds would also like to experience some of this content from time to time.

If guilds monopolize the top - they get too big. And then they implode (see Dozekar/Blackwater/Inglorious Basterds). It happened on Live all the time.

You WILL eventually close your doors for recruitment, at which point if people don't have anywhere to go or anything to do, the future for your own guild gets bleaker and bleaker. Suddenly you hafta re-gear every 3 months a new wave of recruits becuz you never gave anyone else the opportunity to do anything. You slow yourself down in the long run.

You cut your own wrists by cutting off everyone else.

I'm working on something that I think will appeal to all sides.

Fact of the matter is - everyone can benefit from a Calendar in one way or another. If you hafta perma camp trackers in every zone, you lose that person for ports/raids.

If you have to constantly squabble in Hate/Fear, it only takes that much longer to gear up members (or back-flag whatever the case may be). Accidental trains, having to work pulls around other guilds, having other guilds pull your mob mid-pull becuz you feign the adds, whatever. It only adds time and effort where there doesn't need to be.

You can have the same 4 guilds fight for Hate 4 nights in a row. Everyone taking that much longer to get shit done becuz you hafta work around other guilds. Or you can each have 1 night to yourself. It's more efficient. It just makes sense.

Like I said tho - the problem with rotations in the past is too often, EVERY mob is put on a SET rotation. (ie Guild A does Vox, then becuz there are 9 other guilds in line hafta wait 2 months for another Vox raid). That's not FAIR for the big guns.

I've got an idea (or rather I should say a combination of other peoples ideas) that I think, at the very least, is worth consideration.

I've been gathering email addresses of officers/guildleaders and should shoot out a rough draft within a week or so (holidays). But like I said - we are all here to have fun. And nobody is asking for Rusty Long Swords to have the same amount of Vox kills as IB or DA over the course of a month. But some moderation would do the server good.

It would cut down on the poopsocking.
It would cut down on GM /petitions.
It would cut down on general pettiness over the stupidest shit.
It would free up MORE time to do things your guild wants to do.

Big or small, this game has alwayz been about Risk vs Reward. It's also been about Time in versus Reward out. But there is a flaw in the system when no matter how much time people put in, there is no reward.

It's up to us, the community, to have the foresight to at least CONSIDER an option, when presented, that can benefit the server.
__________________
[50 Wizard] Acillatem Zoso <Vesica Dei>

[baub]

Stop spamming the forums.

[Dach]

Spam spam spam Spam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam spamSpam spam

[Hobby]

What horrible options....i say no rotation, my server on live believed in competition....and whoever killed the boss actually felt like they accomplished something.

[Fourthmeal]

Quit spamming the forums

[Sizzle]

Rotations happened because of Poop socking. Essentially there were multiple guilds involved in a rotations in which they would rotate to a different target each week and sit on the spawn during the entirety of the variance as per server rules at the time. Classic Everquest was guilds racing for a shot at gods/dragons. This being said there is a problem in saying this server is actually classic, not based on code or the game mechanics itself but based on the player base.

What do you mean sizzle?
Well, a very large majority of the population on this server has at one time or another been involved in a hardcore raiding guild in Everquest and or another MMORPG. Not to mention that many of these people came back to this game to get their piece of the pie they never had on live servers. On live there were maybe 2 or 3, maximum of 4 guilds (that might even be pushing it) on each server that were capable of doing gods/dragons or even going after them. basically in classic there was a lot less competition.

On P99 we have a situation in which there are probably 5 or 6 guilds that are capable (number/skill wise) of doing gods/dragons. Therefore there is a push for guilds that are "hardcore" to sit in spawns/camp mains fully buffed at the best possible location in order to get first engagement of a boss. These hardcore guilds recognize the ability of other guilds to do the content so they do their best to eliminate the race for a mob. I mean dont get me wrong this will all change come kunark/velious as there will be A MUCH LARGER amount of bosses that will be available to raid.

[Dach]

What horrible options....i say no rotation, my server on live believed in competition....and whoever killed the boss actually felt like they accomplished something.


A rotation is simply the play nice policy fully realized.

The adjectives in option 2 reflect the behavior and attitudes of the current system of might makes right, and should've included douchbaggery.

One of the great things about EQ is it brings out the best and the worst in people.

I know which people I prefer.

People choose based on their experience and most have not experienced the benefits of a rotation.

Perhaps I've done this topic a disservice by arousing the rabble, after all it's not really up to us the sheep to decide but really up to the guild leaders who are the movers and the shakers.

[William_Munny15]

This is obviously the classic if you can't beat em join em scenario Dach.

[Sinder]

bias poll! go home Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, (random major news agency)! no one likes you!

[Hobby]

A rotation fully disallows competition, and gives every guild who manages to recruit like 3 groups worth of players a chance to kill a god, whereas it really shouldnt. It is completely unfair to the guilds who put in the time and effort to achieve the top-tier placement of themselves, and gives an advantage to every small guild that wants things to be handed to them.

Personally i would love the guild drama to go away, but a rotation is not going to do that...if anything, it would make it 100x worse.

[quellren]

Brell had a calendar system marked with the days the planes would repop where any guild/raid leader could claim it once they had enough signatures to make it feasible. Since there was essentially no limit to the population in the plane, it was pretty much open to everyone.*

I thought it was a very democratic and civilized way of doing things when I was a 17 year old kid. Now I realize it's stupid and the pussy way of clearing planes.

* I clearly remember being 1 of like 4 shaman on more than one occasion in Hate. And of course they all felt entitled to roll on any Rune Etched.

[Acillatem]

A 100% set rotation is NOT the way to go. It will eliminate one of the key ingredients that made Classic EQ fun - the race for mobs. Let's face it - the thrill of the chase is one of the most adrenaline pumping things in Classic EQ.

As someone else mentioned, logging in and seeing "GET TO FEAR NOW, WE'RE RACING <GUILD Y!> FOR CAZIC THULE" put you into overdrive and it was challenging and fun.

Having said that tho - a partial Calendar Rotation is a viable solution that would appeal to all sides of the argument.

The problem I've seen with rotations in the past is guilds want a "fair share" of any mob on the menu - regardless of ability and size in comparison to other guilds on the server.

I do not suggest this is the way to go. Having said that - pure monopolization of content - up to the point of training guilds already engaged in order to get the mob yourself (it's to the point now where we FRAPs everything), is also just as detrimental to the community.

Fact is we are ALL here to have fun in 1 way or another. There are many guilds on this server and some simply cater to different people for different reasons.

I said it before and I'll say it again - it's just a matter of respect. Smaller guilds respecting the ability and accomplishments of larger guilds, and larger guilds respecting the ability and desires of smaller guilds.

If a possible solution was available, I think it is at least worth consideration.

You think poopsocking is bad? Wait till the cockblocking begins in Kunark. VP keys, CLR epics etc.

[Ponden]

I'm going to laugh when you guys agree to a rotation and a bigger guild leapfrogs your raid force and snipes your God/Dragon. It will happen without GM policing.

You think poopsocking is bad? Wait till the cockblocking begins in Kunark. VP keys, CLR epics etc.

That. I remember my guild actually had people rotating in/out killing/destroying everything involved with people's epics.

[fastboy21]

any type of forced/required rotation is easy mode and has no place in EQ.

the only time when i will support any rotation system is when it is entirely created between players and guilds (like an in-game "treaty" between states). When that happens it is up to the community (i.e. not the GMs) to enforce violations and make examples and pariahs of offenders. Any GM involvement is NOT what EQ is about when it comes to these types of agreements.

poopsocking will stop (and, to some degree it already has) when the players get sick of it. when Kunark comes out it will probably start again with the big kunark/epic targets as bad as ever with vox and naggy. this is part of EQ.

poopsocking becomes increasingly harder to do when there are multiple valuable raid targets. eventually, in kunark, the "big winners" are not the poopsockers but the fast formers who can race for a spawn.

in any case, my opinion on the issue is that this is a community player issue and not a dev/gm one. the solution should not involve any official required rotation schedule imposed by the dev team.

[quellren]

I'm going to laugh when you guys agree to a rotation and a bigger guild leapfrogs your raid force and snipes your God/Dragon. It will happen without GM policing.


This is really the only mediation that needs to be enforced. It's pretty unethical move to lie in wait, watching a raid force 80% clear Fear and then literally run through them to engage Cazic.

A policy of 'Break the plane-Get dibs on the God' is really all the policing needed.
If you have no intent on engaging CT/Inny then fine, just let someone know so they can try. Ksing a god is lame.

[Dach]

the only time when i will support any rotation system is when it is entirely created between players and guilds (like an in-game "treaty" between states). When that happens it is up to the community (i.e. not the GMs) to enforce violations and make examples and pariahs of offenders. Any GM involvement is NOT what EQ is about when it comes to these types of agreements.

in any case, my opinion on the issue is that this is a community player issue and not a dev/gm one. the solution should not involve any official required rotation schedule imposed by the dev team.

I couldn't agree more. This is the only way to keep things classic.

On Karana the rotation there was completely player created and player enforced and when a rogue guild would pop up and thumb their nose at the rotation that guild would be blacklisted. No one would group, trade with or even talk to them.
They would be ostracized and they would always talk tough and mock everyone at first, but it worked every single time without fail.

Seeing the lawless anarchists fail and justice prevail was a great thing indeed.

They were a form of boss to be taken down like a god or dragon and the triumph was glorious.

[Talori]

Having said that tho - a partial Calendar Rotation is a viable solution that would appeal to all sides of the argument.

...

I do not suggest this is the way to go. Having said that - pure monopolization of content - up to the point of training guilds already engaged in order to get the mob yourself (it's to the point now where we FRAPs everything), is also just as detrimental to the community.

Fact is we are ALL here to have fun in 1 way or another. There are many guilds on this server and some simply cater to different people for different reasons.

I said it before and I'll say it again - it's just a matter of respect. Smaller guilds respecting the ability and accomplishments of larger guilds, and larger guilds respecting the ability and desires of smaller guilds.

If a possible solution was available, I think it is at least worth consideration.


^ This is what I understand and agree with - we can work out some deals on some targets and also have some ffa.

When doing the ffa targets, every guild should respect the other guild's intent to take down a target and not interfere until the last person standing is down. If a guild is already in place, go find something else to do or wait elsewhere nearby, out of direct interference, until they succeed or fail. I know we have people on this server who can show respect - just wish it was the trend and not the exception...

[Dach]

Personally i would love the guild drama to go away, but a rotation is not going to do that...if anything, it would make it 100x worse.


I've seen it work with my own eyes.


A rotation fully disallows competition

Arena tournaments and events?









.

[Ponden]

Arena tournaments and events?.

I don't play EverQuest to PVP. What other events show competition?

[girth]

Stupid rotation idea is stupid.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Some people play EQ for the competition aspect.

http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/thisweek/2007/04/images/goldfarmers01.jpg

Some people play EQ for the community/social aspect.

http://www.mycitybynight.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/larp1-350x280.jpg

Are these sub-groups mutually exclusive? No, but one of those aspects is the clear & defining priority: are you willing to do what it takes to beat out other guilds for content? how far are you willing to push the envelope of douchebaggery to get what you want? And if your guild is at the top and not willing to push the envelope, a guild who is will eventually overtake you.

On the other hand, what's fun for one subgroup may not be fun for the other, and vice-versa.

You have a higher concentration of hardcore super-competitive min-max raiders on this server, because they are back to re-live the glory days of classic EQ from 10 years ago. They obviously enjoy the competition of racing other guilds to the mobs, cockblocking keyed content and epics, etc. -- from before EQ went EZ mode with instanced content, easier transportation options, etc.

This is fun for exactly the only 1-2 guilds that attracted enough like-minded players to do this first and spread the gap over the other guilds first. Artist's rendition of such a gap:

http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/gap-teeth.jpg

For the rest of the players, who maybe came here for nostalgia or thinking they had a shot at some of the stuff they missed out on before... probably not as fun. Just my opinion, but we wouldn't have threads like this if it were not true.

I would love to see some compromise worked out, but the fact of the matter is that 1 or 2 guilds that are currently enjoying most of the content will be against any option that reduces the amount of content they end up with. I have high hopes for leaderships of guilds coming together and working something out, and I believe that most guilds have enough level-headed people in the right leadership spots to be able to do that. While I support Acillatem's ideas and efforts 100% (although with the hybrid penalty this only actually amounts to 60%), I remain cynical.

The problem I forsee is that leader/officer coming back to his masses, with his benevolent arms outstretched like this:

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/926/369205278012ab542007.jpg

and trying to persuade them that "okay, we're compromising on X, so we won't have as many opportunities as we have in the past even though we have clearly demonstrated the skill and commitment to mobilizing fast and locking down raid encounters. Also, quit e-mailing me pictures of your junk." Those masses wouldn't have joined guild X or guild Y unless they truly believed in "might makes right". So even if the leadership of the guild says "Sorry, this is the way it's gonna be..." and risks attrition and possibly castrating the entire guild like a drunk guy gingerly placing his ballsack in a beartrap on a dare... what's the logical next step? Those dissenters end up somewhere -- they will only rise up again, like an erect penis in defiance to everyone on the other side of the window at a day care center, because it's a prevailing mindset that's contradictory to any sort of compromise being made that will restrict the number of raid opportunities that they have enjoyed in the past.

But we still have to try... at least until Kunark opens up more content (and a whole new can of worms like keyed zones and epics.) Do we all really want to sit here and continuously FRAPS each other or be accused of training each other trying to get a few dozen planes mobs past another guild and back to our guild's raid camp? You have GOT to have friends in other guilds, and you have GOT to feel a little bit bad when your guilds pulls a dick move on their guild. Really? No? Is part of Everquest really "manipulating the server rules to your advantage in order to out-maneuver the rival guilds?" or "filling up socks to the brim with our own feces?" By the way, the following installation pays for itself in savings on sock purchases:

http://www.myspaceantics.com/images/myspace-graphics/funny-pictures/toilet-desk-chair.jpg

I don't know the answers to these questions. My concern is there are no good answers due to human nature.

[Winobot]

If you wanna kill dragons and raid planes, join a guild that can do so. The reality is these is very little content atm. Just quell those tears of yours until Kunark is released and there's more to go around.

[Skope]

^^ that may be one of my favorite posts in p99 history.

[Snigel]

Having the guild's unemployed members logged onto their ShowEQ-drones parked in different zones and then batphoning when something pops is what it's always been about!

The race and the competition is what makes it fun. Don't take that away from people

[Skope]

Having the guild's unemployed members logged onto their ShowEQ-drones parked in different zones and then batphoning when something pops is what it's always been about!

The race and the competition is what makes it fun. Don't take that away from people

Get rid of variance and you won't have anywhere near as much cheating. To boot, variance was never classic anyway. Still have the race and you'll actually force guilds to speak to each other.

[Gwence]

take away variance all you'll get is ib/da sitting on the spawn point and best ks group taking the lootz.

I laugh when people say the classic targets are going to become more available when Kunark opens. Not sure why people think that, but it's funny!!!

[Ponden]

I know I will have a Shaman and a caster at level 52 for the dragons. I know a ton of others will too.

[Skope]

take away variance all you'll get is ib/da sitting on the spawn point and best ks group taking the lootz.

FTE. 1 guild gets loot, the rest gets kicked from the zone. Work it out amongst yourselves how and what to do. I'm not denying that it will get incredibly messy, but that's also how live worked. People spoke to each other and guilds teamed up for spawns.

Furthermore, I can guarantee you it'll be 3-4 guilds at every spawn if variance were dumped. You also won't get any more talk of spawn sniffers or SEQ.

[Davionx]

Hardcore raiding in this game makes me lol.

Hey guys lets fight some tank n spank fights for loot that adds more mana and hp.

[Evorix]

Everyone has the equal opportunity to get boss kills... Work for your kills and stop whining about making it easier for your guild.

[ActiveInsight]

All zones that have raid targets (designated by players for the gms to flag, or gms flag them based on their opinion) become auto pvp enabled zones only when the raid target is alive. During said pvp enabled timeframe, no binding is allowed in zone to prevent zerging and those that are bound there already are auto bound right outside zone line in a safe spot.

If compeition does arise, you have to defend your claim. Elitists get their feeling of 'thrill of the chase' and then some, smaller guilds will have the opportunity for their shot at loot. Smaller guilds could utilize alliances that switch between blocking and raid target groups to keep a stronger enemy guild from interferring and then share the loot.

If anything, just an option. Drama will still be in game but there already is drama here and no matter what decision is made, their always will be.

[Erik]

Does no one actually remember when p99 had a rotation? The entire time the boards were full of posts about making raid mobs free for all, as soon as free for all came around the rotation posts started. The system is working.

If you want god/dragon loot join a top tier guild, if not don't. If you don't want to join the guild check out Bobs thread you can always buy a char with planar already.

[mimixownzall]

Too many drama queens to accept this.

[teganyavo]

Hardcore raiding in this game makes me lol.

Hey guys lets fight some tank n spank fights for loot that adds more mana and hp.

AND YOUR REWARD IS CLOTHES

[Ponden]

Hardcore raiding in this game makes me lol.

Hey guys lets fight some tank n spank fights for loot that adds more mana and hp.

Because following "Add-Ons" that hold your hand through a fight in WoW is much more difficult? UH OH! MY ADD ON IS TELLING ME TO STEP TO THE LEFT BECAUSE A WAVE OF LAVA IS INC!

[azeth]

Hardcore raiding in this game makes me lol.

Hey guys lets fight some tank n spank fights for loot that adds more mana and hp.

no, you're right. there's definitely only your way to play EQ.

[Loke]

I love how every once and awhile someone new comes around and thinks they are going to fix the server raid scene. You aren't the first, and I'm sure you won't be the last to propose a rotation system. The fact is, the server doesn't want it. Even with your ridiculously labeled options - a "no rotation" option is still winning. People present a rotation like it is what everyone wants and only a few people in the big raid guilds are forcing competition on the entire server, but that simply isn't the case.

Can we make a collection of all the failed "let's make a rotation" threads so that in the future when someone thinks they're going to reinvent the wheel by proposing it we can just link them to the pages upon pages already present on the forum?

[Messianic]

I find it hilarious that somehow people think "greed" and "selfishness" are problems.

[azeth]

I find it hilarious that somehow people think "greed" and "selfishness" are problems.

Some people legitimately will never understand why everyone can't have everything.

[bluejam]

If you want god/dragon loot join a top cheating guild, if not don't. I
Fixed - don't pretend this isn't (boxing comes to mind) / wasn't an issue.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16691&highlight=officially&page=21

Not trying to start a flame war. It's just really sad.

[Hobby]

Oh man i forgot about the 20page hate-thread...thats when rants and flames were entertaining :/



and yes, 20 pages....i dont like reading 10posts and having to change a page.

[Dach]

I see the debate as being about behavior.

Decency vs sociopathy.

This game brings out the best and the worst behavior in people.

The nazis showed us that ordinary people from everyday walks of life can be compelled to become monsters, so sociopathy is contagious.

The behavior and attitudes associated with uber guilds is generally horrible and ugly. If they were roleplaying an evil race behaving like that I could appreciate it, but it is genuine evil villain to the soul sociopathic bullshit.

People excuse their asshole behavior by saying "it's just a game" "It's competition" etc etc etc. We as human beings are remarkable in our capacity to creatively justify our evil actions.

But I have seen and participated in decent people banding together and agreeing to isolate and alienate the jackasses that ruin the game for others.

It was far better than the Lord Of The Flies scenario we have now.


This is obviously the classic if you can't beat em join em scenario Dach.

I refuse to join a guild of douchebags just so I can kill a god or dragon and get uberlewtz. Screw that.

I would rather associate with decent people and go without killing a god or dragon.

But there is a better way. I have seen it.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The nazis showed us that ordinary people from everyday walks of life can be compelled to become monsters, so sociopathy is contagious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

:(

[Kassel]

Godwins law is envoked.

close this thread as per the rules, this argument is over.

[Dach]

Godwins law is envoked.

close this thread as per the rules, this argument is over.

What a Nazi-like rule.

[Ponden]

I refuse to join a guild of douchebags just so I can kill a god or dragon and get uberlewtz. Screw that.

I would rather associate with decent people and go without killing a god or dragon.

But there is a better way. I have seen it.

And I would rather not let a bunch of casual players get loots over people that dedicate much more time to the game. If you want easy loots and a friendly atmosphere, I heard LOTRO is free to play and WoW has some great deals.

Rotations work, sure. But I know for a fact that we will snipe and steamroll lower guilds if a named is up, just because we can and thats how -we- play. Rotate planar clears, sure. Even then though, we have alts that we want geared.

[azeth]

Rotations work, sure. But I know for a fact that we will snipe and steamroll lower guilds if a named is up, just because we can and thats how -we- play. Rotate planar clears, sure. Even then though, we have alts that we want geared.

truth..

[Davionx]

Because following "Add-Ons" that hold your hand through a fight in WoW is much more difficult? UH OH! MY ADD ON IS TELLING ME TO STEP TO THE LEFT BECAUSE A WAVE OF LAVA IS INC!


I have never played WoW, I'm sorry that you took a blanket reply on raiding in a game with 1 hotbar worth of abilities, GCD and horrible itemization on top of being contested as a personal insult.

[Dach]

And I would rather not let a bunch of casual players get loots over people that dedicate much more time to the game.

The amount of time one dedicates to the game does not entitle or justify someone to act poorly towards another, especially when you have no idea how much time they may or may not have invested.
This is simply rationalizing and excusing ones own BS.
You can keep telling yourself anything you want tho, be my guest, but I'm sure not buying it.



I know for a fact that we will snipe and steamroll lower guilds if a named is up, just because we can and thats how -we- play.

Play nice rules be damned!

Engagement rules be damned!

Sociopaths unite!

[Ponden]

What other games aren't tank n spank with some random bullshit? I forgot, knowing a scripted event is roughhhh.

[Davionx]

no, you're right. there's definitely only your way to play EQ.


Never said anything about how I play this game, just that I'm amazed that people who can log into a game all day would spend their time raiding in a game where the itemization from heroic to raid does not even come close to make time spent seem worth it in the least on top of the encounters having little to no challenge at least in my eyes.

[YendorLootmonkey]

There is a better way. You form an alliance with the "2nd tier guilds", get them trained up on strats, figure out your "douchebag level" (i.e. how far you're willing to go to get what you want, which is probably the largest barrier to an alliance forming), practice mobilizing, and then give the "1st tier guilds" the competition they're inviting.

And I would rather not let a bunch of casual players get loots over people that dedicate much more time to the game.

See, they don't want you to have their shit. They don't feel you deserve it. Screw you if you have real lives that are more important to you and can't dedicate the time to the game that other players just like you have deemed necessary for you to dedicate in order to have these things that you'd like.

[Davionx]

What other games aren't tank n spank with some random bullshit? I forgot, knowing a scripted event is roughhhh.


Raiding contested in this game means you have to be available for spawn windows, I'm simply saying that the itemization ie. There is no BoE in this game, nor any crit chance, all the gear is stats and hp/mana.

It just does not seem like this game is worth it to raid, at least imo.

I'm not trying to slight people who do so, just simply saying I dont see the appeal from the itemization nor the encounters themselves

[Davionx]

I do agree that contested mobs should always be first come, first serve.

If your not first, your last :p

[Ponden]

I mean, you can say the same thing for any game with any stats. But once again, if you want those items that are best in slot, you need to put time into getting them. You shouldn't be able to buy your way into the best gear. I have a casual playing friend that has best in slot for droppables on his Shaman and his Ranger. Does he want raid gear? Yes. Does he have time and the dedication to log on at 4am due to a batphone? No. He accepts that, much like others need to.

[Davionx]

I mean, you can say the same thing for any game with any stats. But once again, if you want those items that are best in slot, you need to put time into getting them. You shouldn't be able to buy your way into the best gear. I have a casual playing friend that has best in slot for droppables on his Shaman and his Ranger. Does he want raid gear? Yes. Does he have time and the dedication to log on at 4am due to a batphone? No. He accepts that, much like others need to.

My point is this.

Random 50 necro in full heroic gear, well call him necro H

vs.

Hardcore raiding necro in full raid gear, well call him necro R



Both do the same dmg, each dot tick does the same dmg, each first tick does the same dmg, each DD does the same dmg, neither will ever crit.

The only difference being that Necro R has more mana and HP then Necro H

imo. raid gear should have a significant upgrade path vs. heroic because of the total man hours required "40ish+ people?" for however long the zone clear takes.

I know its classic and this is the way itemization was when it came out for both heroic and raid paths, but it just does not seem worth it in the least and hopefully it gets better in Kunark

[YendorLootmonkey]

Does he have the lack of employment to log on at 4am due to a batphone? No. He accepts that, much like others need to.

[Ponden]

Gear doesn't really add any "crit" or "increased dmg" for the most part until much further in the game. I doubt this server will see many "focus" items or "+crit" that aren't known. And yes, most rankings in EQ are related to HP, Armor, Mana, or ATK. You can't compare this to another game.

[azeth]

@ Davionx - I'm surprised you bother playing EQ with that mentality.

Tbh I'd like to upgrade my legs from Mithril Greaves to Golden Freeti Greaves.
Not only will I lose strength (still above 188), but also Sv Magic, while gaining dex (i dont use proccing weapons often) and agi (pretty useless for rogues). Just because this "upgrade" doesn't bump me from scrub -> elite does not mean it's not worth my time to pursue.

Consider now - Player X (me) wants item Y (greaves) which only drop off such_and_such raid target, i don't know, 1/50. My guild kills this target ~2 times a week or less, so if I'm not on for the kill most of the time my odds are miniscule on getting the item. Also, if I'm not on enough for any other raid we do, my odds on getting the item when it actually drops are nil. It's all perspective.

Davionx, you above almost any other poster in this thread are full of opinions regarding how you think things should be.

[Davionx]

@ Davionx - I'm surprised you bother playing EQ with that mentality.

Tbh I'd like to upgrade my legs from Mithril Greaves to Golden Freeti Greaves.
Not only will I lose strength (still above 188), but also Sv Magic, while gaining dex (i dont use proccing weapons often) and agi (pretty useless for rogues). Just because this "upgrade" doesn't bump me from scrub -> elite does not mean it's not worth my time to pursue.

Davionx, you above almost any other poster in this thread are full of opinions regarding how you think things should be.


I'm having alot of fun playing this game and these replies were never meant to poke at hardcore raiders other then to say that I dont think your time spent on hardcore raiding in this game is rewarded properly for what it requires you to do.

[azeth]

I dont think your time spent on hardcore raiding in this game is rewarded properly for what it requires you to do.

quick note: i am not mad bro, and i dont think you are either.

Again though, I really am that player who spends a lot of time online and 99% of that time raiding. I feel fully rewarded for my efforts despite many times losing a raid target, or not getting an item, or after a wipe. Hell, I feel elated even seeing people in my guild upgrade from shit to crap. Doesn't matter what drops, as long as I'm raiding with a capable group..

Especially in Classic EQ, the fun is in the journey, not the destination.

[Davionx]

Nice, playing with people who can play their role/class at the level required for such content definetly adds alot of overall fun.