Bernie Sanders is a bad ass

[iruinedyourday]

Best interview with a presidential candidate that youll ever see part 1 (https://youtu.be/LCnrQZbqIQU?list=PLkRT6sInhvHVb96gl-uxn2LxBqEL4Iv9A)

Best interview with a presidential candidate that youll ever see part 2 (https://youtu.be/vgzkTp_41G4?list=PLkRT6sInhvHVb96gl-uxn2LxBqEL4Iv9A)

Best interview with a presidential candidate that youll ever see part 3 (https://youtu.be/huuLU9ma1hU?list=PLkRT6sInhvHVb96gl-uxn2LxBqEL4Iv9A)

Best interview with a presidential candidate that youll ever see part 4 (https://youtu.be/PI7m1qFfiXA?list=PLkRT6sInhvHVb96gl-uxn2LxBqEL4Iv9A)

Best interview with a presidential candidate that youll ever see part 5 (https://youtu.be/fk8OYHcHBX8?list=PLkRT6sInhvHVb96gl-uxn2LxBqEL4Iv9A)

Best interview with a presidential candidate that youll ever see part 6 (https://youtu.be/2cSGCoNlY4Y?list=PLkRT6sInhvHVb96gl-uxn2LxBqEL4Iv9A)

He's the best in the world, and the only one actually talking about politics that matter, not just trying to get a contract spot on Fox News for the rest of his life.

Only one qualified, only one with the heart, only one with a brain of his own, only one with a brain at all, only one who deserves the election.

Back him or you're backing hillary. If there is one thing we all can agree on is, we don't want Hillary in the whitehouse.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I don't have to watch the videos to know without a doubt that everything he proposed is fiscally impossible.

[Lune]

I don't have to watch the videos to know without a doubt that everything he proposed is fiscally impossible.

Denmark, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany, etc etc etc do it, and we're wealthier than they are.

If we didn't spend so much money driving obsolete aircraft carriers around the world and subsidizing the patron industries of corrupt officials, we'd be able to afford nice social programs too.

[iruinedyourday]

Denmark, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany, etc etc etc do it, and we're wealthier than they are.

If we didn't spend so much money driving obsolete aircraft carriers around the world and subsidizing the patron industries of corrupt officials, we'd be able to afford nice social programs too.

yea but yea but how else will we support our military if we don't take care of our veterans and drive air craft carriers around for no reason??

[Safon]

Bernie Sanders is a dreamer

We need a president who will attend to reality

[Lune]

Bernie Sanders is a dreamer

We need a president who will attend to reality

"Reality". That's funny. Who do you suggest?

Trump, who talks about deporting several million families from blue states and getting Mexico to pay for a giant wall?

Rubio, who denies the science behind anthropomorphic climate change (A Catholic so corrupted by energy industries that his stance on the environment contradicts that of his own Pope)

Carson, who not only denies climate change, but is also a creationist and believes the Pyramids were used to store grain?

Hillary? What does reality mean to a pathological liar?

[iruinedyourday]

Bernie Sanders is a dreamer

We need a president who will attend to reality

first of all, he's literatly the only one who WORKS in politics, and has for 40 years, with the most successful track record of any senator in history.

So what the fuck do you think is not a dreamer? the guy who just makes this shit up along as he goes?

Hillary, pretending we all love her?

Gimi a break, only one dream'n is you.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

He makes too many promises, he's a dreamer.

He never qualifies his plans, he could easily step back into reality every once in a while and admit that not everything he plans will be achieved while achieving as many of them as possible.

I respect someone who knows their own limitations.

[AzzarTheGod]

Denmark, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany, etc etc etc do it, and we're wealthier than they are.

If we didn't spend so much money driving obsolete aircraft carriers around the world and subsidizing the patron industries of corrupt officials, we'd be able to afford nice social programs too.

This. Those bailout billions given arbitrarily year after year in a so-called capitalist system where you are supposed to face your failures without intervention in the private sector, does NOT pay dividends to the taxpayer.

[iruinedyourday]

He never qualifies his plans, he could easily step back into reality every once in a while and admit that not everything he plans will be achieved while achieving as many of them as possible.

Here's an example of Bernie speaking from where he stands, IN REALITY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDRxbQlpqmo&feature=youtu.be&t=417

I respect someone who knows their own limitations.

So if this is true, bernie is your man.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

He has to beat hillary first.

[Sk00ba5t3v3]

Sanders has good intentions.

[James_Joyce]

Too bad Bernie is a Zionist who won't reduce bloated military spending to pay for his gibs, but in all likelihood instead will ramp up the Drone Wars, preside over an open conflict in Syria, continue paying contractors millions to pump hummus up the asses of detainees, and will take out further loans at interest from his tribemates to pay for the advertised bread and circus. If you think going another trillion in to public debt so the state can pay already disgustingly inflated tuition for more women and minority studies degrees is going to somehow kick start our economy, and isn't in fact one of the greatest frauds ever proposed (money now owed by the public, funneled into the pockets of private people who both own the institutions with the bloated fees and benefit from the interest paid, in exchange for more cultmarx indoctrination and more Bernie voters. What a boon.), you are really confused.

I'm all about reforming higher ed in the US but what Bernie proposes isn't reform, it's gibmedats with no strings. Idiotic and transparently deceitful. If he were anything more than demagogue he would say we drown in unemployed humanities grads, we lack industry, we lack certain STEM graduates: subsidize the education of those areas required. And by the way, here are dollar caps on tuition that can be paid even in part by state funds, so reorganize your bloated institutions and make this vaguely economical again. But instead hail Caesar and keep the checks coming, right?

If you're not going with the only candidate with a snowball's chance in hell of NOT being a puppet, the only one who falls outside the 2 party system, I really don't know what to say to you. You're too invested in this Illusion that things are as they seem and everything is under control. You're bamboozled. Bernie is the most obvious Obama 2.0 you could put up on that fucking stage. If you're willing to vote for that, and not to vote for burning this disgusting machine to the ground, the blood of the murdered is on your hands too as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sure my candidate will drone strike his fair share too, but the shift of the overton window could pave the way toward more extremist candidates in the future, which is exactly the only thing that can save us. And the fact that his campaign is self funded is YUGE. Yuge.

I'm not going to lie to you like a Bernie supporter and tell you my guy is a good option who will fix everything immediately with mo money fo dem programs. It's just that he's the ONLY option, a desperate and frightful option, like picking up a shotgun with two shells in it when 3 dindus come in through a broken window. Will you risk dying with honor beating the last one with the empty weapon, or will you lay down and beg for mercy from all three?

[Patriam1066]

Denmark, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany, etc etc etc do it, and we're wealthier than they are.

If we didn't spend so much money driving obsolete aircraft carriers around the world and subsidizing the patron industries of corrupt officials, we'd be able to afford nice social programs too.

Half of those countries are rich because we don't have tariffs

America subsidizes everyone but ourselves, /sigh

I don't hate Bernie. I don't think for a second, however, that increasing the national debt is anything more than perpetual corporate welfare directing taxpayer money to the banks. The banks get permanent assets on their balance sheets and leftists don't care. It's bewildering to me, but then again I get pissed when I lose a penny

[iruinedyourday]

Too bad Bernie is a Zionist who won't reduce bloated military spending to pay for his gibs, but in all likelihood instead will ramp up the Drone Wars, preside over an open conflict in Syria, continue paying contractors millions to pump hummus up the asses of detainees, and will take out further loans at interest from his tribemates to pay for the advertised bread and circus. If you think going another trillion in to public debt so the state can pay already disgustingly inflated tuition for more women and minority studies degrees is going to somehow kick start our economy, and isn't in fact one of the greatest frauds ever proposed (money now owed by the public, funneled into the pockets of private people who both own the institutions with the bloated fees and benefit from the interest paid, in exchange for more cultmarx indoctrination and more Bernie voters. What a boon.), you are really confused.

I'm all about reforming higher ed in the US but what Bernie proposes isn't reform, it's gibmedats with no strings. Idiotic and transparently deceitful. If he were anything more than demagogue he would say we drown in unemployed humanities grads, we lack industry, we lack certain STEM graduates: subsidize the education of those areas required. And by the way, here are dollar caps on tuition that can be paid even in part by state funds, so reorganize your bloated institutions and make this vaguely economical again. But instead hail Caesar and keep the checks coming, right?

If you're not going with the only candidate with a snowball's chance in hell of NOT being a puppet, the only one who falls outside the 2 party system, I really don't know what to say to you. You're too invested in this Illusion that things are as they seem and everything is under control. You're bamboozled. Bernie is the most obvious Obama 2.0 you could put up on that fucking stage. If you're willing to vote for that, and not to vote for burning this disgusting machine to the ground, the blood of the murdered is on your hands too as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sure my candidate will drone strike his fair share too, but the shift of the overton window could pave the way toward more extremist candidates in the future, which is exactly the only thing that can save us. And the fact that his campaign is self funded is HUGE. Huge.

I'm not going to lie to you like a Bernie supporter and tell you my guy is a good option who will fix everything immediately. It's just that he's the ONLY option, a desperate and frightful option, like picking up a shotgun with two shells in it when 3 dindus come in through a broken window. Will you risk dying with honor beating the last one with the empty weapon, or will you lay down and beg for mercy from all three?

Its weird that all of your political beliefs are fixated on one issue, you don't want anyone paying any taxes and giving anyone anything.

just say that dude, don't rant like this. Just say you don't want anyone benefiting from the government except for the ultra rich.

sorry pal but that's the cornerstone of your entire philosophy

[iruinedyourday]

Half of those countries are rich because we don't have tariffs

you misspelled taarof.

[Patriam1066]

you misspelled taarof.

Please tell me you aren't Persian.

[James_Joyce]

Its weird that all of your political beliefs are fixated on one issue, you don't want anyone paying any taxes and giving anyone anything.

just say that dude, don't rant like this. Just say you don't want anyone benefiting from the government except for the ultra rich.

sorry pal but that's the cornerstone of your entire philosophy

The baroness of nonsequiturs strikes again.

Did you miss the part where my guy proposes reducing taxes on the middle class and closing loopholes so the ultra-wealthy pay their share? Did you miss the part where Bernie can't do this because he's funded by these multinational predators who stand to lose some profit? You literally argue the points of my candidate, while defending one who proposes the opposite. You are too fucking oblivious.

[iruinedyourday]

The baroness of nonsequiturs strikes again.

Did you miss the part where my guy proposes reducing taxes on the middle class and closing loopholes so the ultra-wealthy pay their share? You literally argue the points of my candidate, while defending one who proposes the opposite. You are too fucking oblivious.

your guy aint proposing shit lol

he aint gonna do anything cus 1. hes not electable and 2. hes full of shit and a liar and doesnt give a flying fuck about any of this except for the fame.

[James_Joyce]

your guy aint proposing shit lol

he aint gonna do anything cus 1. hes not electable and 2. hes full of shit and a liar and doesnt give a flying fuck about any of this except for the fame.

Already demo'd how your boy is a liar with an actual argument. Are you going to do me the same courtesy or just squawk like a parrot?

[iruinedyourday]

Already demo'd how your boy is a liar with an actual argument. Are you going to do me the same courtesy or just squawk like a parrot?

hmm I think kaga hacked james joyce but it's - a 2hour long youtube video so i dont know what to believe

[James_Joyce]

What video? Hello?

Did I trigger one of your brain scrambling keyphrases you picked up from the TV? I thought I didn't say anything about race or gender tho.

[iruinedyourday]

This is a bold faced lie and also screams tinfoil hatter.

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-11/12/12/tmp/webdr06/anigif_mobile_eb845f9b88bf998d0c3b7e30518551a6-3.gif

Did you miss the part where Bernie can't do this because he's funded by these multinational predators who stand to lose some profit?

here let me try to kaga respond.

Prove it.

[James_Joyce]

http://i.imgur.com/F24KIz2.png


ehehhee

[Filthy_Pagan]

I'm voting for Bernie, Because socialist democracies are the way to go. Dat taxation WITH representation, ya dig?

That said, Trump has some merit in that he's a businessman and our government is run as a for-profit business. But that's about it.

Hillary has nothing, which is why she can't answer a debate question without mentioning that she has a vagina. She causes stuff like the attack in Benghazi, and the invasion of Iraq under false pretenses. I don't wish ill on too many people, but I sincerely hope she dies before the election.

[Pokesan]

Dear NSA agent monitoring this forum, if you're cute and need some NSA sex, hit me up with a PM

[James_Joyce]

hes already joing to the nudes on my phone bro he dont need you

[Filthy_Pagan]

hes already joing to the nudes on my phone bro he dont need you
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aFKMZcr7ai4/hqdefault.jpg

[Orruar]

I want to take a bunch of money from rich people and give it to everyone else.

What a bold and brave soul. And original too!

[James_Joyce]

orruar starting to bud into my top 10 forum personality list lately

[iruinedyourday]

idk last time you guys were in agreement there were some bans going around so id tread carefully

[James_Joyce]

if you think reminding me that we are brothers in text- and image-based arms against tyranny is gonna check my warming heart, you truly don't understand the struggle

[iruinedyourday]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/452XjnaHr1A/hqdefault.jpg

[captnamazing]

I'll vote for Donald Sanders u can rest assured Bernie Trump Clinton is my president elect

[Lune]

What a bold and brave soul. And original too!

You're right, it isn't original. It works in the rest of the developed world where their governments aren't run by the business elite, where high taxes (actually not much higher than ours, just better spent) and huge governments result in superior outcomes. Just keep pretending Australia, Canada, Japan, and Gemany don't exist, and that what they have can't work here. We'll all be serfs in no time.

Contrary to what Ayn Rand says, people are still motivated to be entrepreneurial when they are taking home $10 billion instead of $100 billion. The difference is, the concentration of the latter amount of wealth systematically destroys the country, and has been proven time and again to not trickle down, not with globalization.

[Orruar]

Just keep pretending Australia, Canada, Japan, and Gemany don't exist

I will so long as you keep pretending that the USSR, North Korea, and 20th century China don't exist.

[Orruar]

orruar starting to bud into my top 10 forum personality list lately

The other day you were saying I was in your top 5. Does this mean you actually support Bernie and my comments here have moved me out of the top 5?

[Lune]

I will so long as you keep pretending that the USSR, North Korea, and 20th century China don't exist.

We're better than that. Don't be surprised when shitty cultures try a sophisticated form of government and fail at it.

[James_Joyce]

The other day you were saying I was in your top 5. Does this mean you actually support Bernie and my comments here have moved me out of the top 5?

i suffer from severe short term memory loss during most of the times i post here

dont worry buddy you're only moving up. top 5 is still top 10. I just wasn't in the mood to build you up THAT much today.

[iruinedyourday]

The diff between line & orrur here is one is talking about socialism & the other is talking about communism.

Education boys & girls.

[AzzarTheGod]

The diff between line & orrur here is one is talking about socialism & the other is talking about communism.

Education boys & girls.

I like how Lune kept playing ball allowing Orruar to insinuate that somehow socialism amounts to a form of communism. What a cool and normal pal.

[Orruar]

I like how Lune kept playing ball allowing Orruar to insinuate that somehow socialism amounts to a form of communism. What a cool and normal pal.

Collectivism is collectivism. Democratic socialism is the camel's nose under the tent to wedge in authoritarian control over a people.

[Alenon]

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Suffering leads to socialism. Socialism leads to communism. Communism leads to the dark side. they shortened it for the movie :P

[maskedmelon]

Two serious questions for our socialists:

1. Why is it in the best interest of the people for government to subsidize failure?

2. Once we've adequately seized the assets of the most detested minority, to whom will we export the inefficiencies of government assuming we do not wish to internalize them and the resulting poverty?

[sOurDieSel]

We're better than that. Don't be surprised when shitty cultures try a sophisticated form of government and fail at it.

We keep importing these 'shitty cultures' and thus is why it will not work here in the USA. What do(did) these European countries all have in common for many years?? I wonder....*cough*homogeneous society*cough*

[Kyff]

Two serious questions for our socialists:

1. Why is it in the best interest of the people for government to subsidize failure?

2. Once we've adequately seized the assets of the most detested minority, to whom will we export the inefficiencies of government assuming we do not wish to internalize them and the resulting poverty?

Answer 1
Because the so called failures might be tempted to take up arms and fight for a fair share of wealth if all the government does is protecting the few haves.

Answer 2
The fundament of your question is worng. If done correctly taxation does not "seize the assets" but rather reduces them. Even with the inefficiencies inherent in large operations the result should not be poverty but a more balanced distribution of wealth.

[Raev]

Denmark, Canada, Australia, Japan, Germany, etc etc etc do it, and we're wealthier than they are.

Oh, that must explain http://www.dailysabah.com/europe/2015/12/13/denmark-passes-law-to-seize-jewelry-from-refugees-to-cover-expenses then.


The fundament of your question is worng. If done correctly taxation does not "seize the assets" but rather reduces them. Even with the inefficiencies inherent in large operations the result should not be poverty but a more balanced distribution of wealth.

As far as I can tell, this is a superb example of pure authentic Internet gibberish.

[Filthy_Pagan]

Two serious questions for our socialists:

1. Why is it in the best interest of the people for government to subsidize failure?

2. Once we've adequately seized the assets of the most detested minority, to whom will we export the inefficiencies of government assuming we do not wish to internalize them and the resulting poverty?

I think this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDv0XGkh_SM) will sum it up nicely.

We need a nordic model government. Homogeneous population and socialism.

[sOurDieSel]

Homogeneous population

Dat be waycist yo gibsmedat white-wooooman

[Kyff]

We need a nordic model government. Homogeneous population and socialism.

T.V. is the reason why less than ten percent of our Nation reads books daily
Why most people think Central America means Kansas
Socialism means unamerican
and Apartheid is a new headache remedy.

[Orruar]

We keep importing these 'shitty cultures' and thus is why it will not work here in the USA. What do(did) these European countries all have in common for many years?? I wonder....*cough*homogeneous society*cough*

That is exactly correct. Collectivism requires a fairly homogeneous society to even have a chance at limited short-term success. People simply won't want to work hard if much of the population holds values and ideals that are antithetical to their own. The US is far too diverse for collectivism to work.

Also note that even where the population is homogeneous, collectivism barely works and only for a limited period of time. It encourages bad behaviors and without strict social controls to limit the reproduction of these bad behaviors, it will devolve within a couple generations and fail.

[Orruar]

We need a nordic model government. Homogeneous population and socialism.

Two questions on this:

1) Do you think any homogeneous population works? Or does it have to be white only? If it could be any old race, where are all the examples of effective black/brown socialist societies?

2) How do you propose we reach this state of homogeneity, given our current diverse population?

[maskedmelon]

Answer 1
Because the so called failures might be tempted to take up arms and fight for a fair share of wealth if all the government does is protecting the few haves.

Answer 2
The fundament of your question is worng. If done correctly taxation does not "seize the assets" but rather reduces them. Even with the inefficiencies inherent in large operations the result should not be poverty but a more balanced distribution of wealth.

1. I said failure not failures. I was referring to the concept (as one might refer to poverty, intolerance or bigotry) not people. However if you are arguing it is reasonable for society to furnish resources to an entity out of fear of violence by that entity, would it not be more pragmatic to eliminate said entity? You are advocating racketeering.

To my original question of failure (more specifically failed behaviors), I've several additional questions:

1. If a flame is struggling to catch on the damp siding of your home, do you pile dry kindling next to it in hope the flame will relocate?

2. If your child habitually fails to meet his/ her curfew, do you upgrade their iPhone as incentive to better manage their time?

3. If an employee embezzles do you raise his salary?

4. If man commits rape, do you furnish him a concubine?




2. Any reduction in assets is exacted via seizure whether in part or in whole. Taxation is not voluntary and is executed under penalty of law. Look at any socialist oasis and you will see that they all have one (or more) of three things:

1. Ever increasing effective tax rates
2. Soaring debt
3. Robust economic protectionist policies

The inefficiency inherent to organizations that are funded via extortion necessarily results in poverty, whether internalized or exported.

[maskedmelon]

You shouldn't subsidize failure, but it's in your interest to invest in, create, and build success.

I think we can all agree on this ^^

The question is: how do we get there?

Learning is an internal process and abating penalties for bad decisions denies the party the opportunity to learn and reinforces the behavior.

[One Tin Soldier]

Haven't you people figured out yet that you will never change each others minds about politics?

It doesn't matter anyway. America is doomed. The federal government is heading for bankruptcy and it's already almost too late to stop it. By the time the political will exists to actually try to stop it, it will be too late.

I looked into a crystal ball one night and this is what I saw: Our government borrowing ever increasing amounts of money, not only to pay for internal expenses but also to pay the interest on the debt they already have (this is already happening). As debt increases the interest payments increase. The government borrows more money. The debt increases more. The interest payments increase more. The government and the people who elect our worthy leaders don't have the stomach to reduce government spending.

The downward spiral gets steeper and faster until finally our government is unable to make it's interest payments. At this point nobody will loan them any more money because who would be insane enough to do so? No country is big enough to bail us out or would even if they could. In a desperate attempt to do something the government begins printing more money...lots more...trillions more. The value of the dollar drops to nothing. The economy is destroyed. Chaos reigns.

The United States breaks apart.

At this point things became murky. Perhaps the south and the central states split away to form the new confederacy. The north east becomes a Socialist dictatorship thus ensuring it's third world status. The west coast sees the rise of the lunatics who ban eating animal products, ban modern farming practices for the ideal of fully organic farming, and ban the use of fossil fuels. As a result millions starve to death sitting in their candle lit hovels and haven't even the means to flee as they have no fuel to put in their cars.

I have spoken. Thus it was revealed to me and thus it shall be!

[am0n]

I have spoken. Thus it was revealed to me and thus it shall be!

This guy didn't drink the coolaid, he put it into a bag and injected it straight into his vein.

[maskedmelon]

Hah! Three words pal:

Special Drawing Rights


Checkmate logic!

[iruinedyourday]

I think we can all agree on this ^^

The question is: how do we get there?

Learning is an internal process and abating penalties for bad decisions denies the party the opportunity to learn and reinforces the behavior.

hey buddy! Thought I should help you in you quest to get to the greater good thingy you're after.. as in whats the right thing to do?

Ok first of all, one should know that this stuff has been debated by those in control of the goverments of continents, thousands of years ago!

So there has been a lot of trial and error in the arena heh, were not onto something new here is all Im saying.

Second of all, it has been evdient that societies that help the weaker, overall become stronger.

Societies that dont, suffer and deteriate.

The simplest reasoning is, if you dont feed the poor, they will figure out a way to take your food.

That is a scaleable concept that goes all the way up to housing, medicating, entertaining etc.

Now another thing you should think about is how the poor greatly outnumber the wealthy, in all capitalist systems. In all systems really, you can bet that you cant get rich, unless you're taking money from someone else, and you cant take money from someone else, without making a few people poor.

So, what do you do when everyoen is poor? theres nobody left to take money from!... deteriation.

By taxing the rich, giving money to the poor, the rich are able to create more jobs, more outlets for the poor spend money, make more $$

The economy works in a huge circular effect. It's not like the wild kingdom, it's entirely different.

Now all that said, there are a few things that WE DO for our nation, like make it a friendly place to visit, contribute with every paycheck, go to war in defense of it, hell, we BUILT it.

Because of all that, we are OWED something in return and what that is, is a safe place that protects our civil liberties and helps us grow.

The government pay for that through taxes, it's the price to enter the park. Nobody is immune from them nobody has that right, no matter who they are... right now the rich think they are however.

You don't get to walk into disneyland and ride everything for free, no mater how famous and rich you are. You want the park to yourself? Well guess what, you either buy the whole thing, or you pay to rent it out for the day. Both of which cost A LOT of money.

Why should the rich be able to rent the whole country for the day, or buy the whole thing, for virtually nothing?

No, they need to pay their taxes, and the amount of space you want to occupy or time you want the park to yourself (metaphors for how rich you want to be) increases parallelly.

Remember, the rich cannot be the rich without the poor. You cannot be a Job Creator, if there is nobody that wants to do the work. The poor, are more valuble than the rich by a LONG shot... Stop living in fear of 1-2% of the world.

[One Tin Soldier]

you cant get rich, unless you're taking money from someone else, and you cant take money from someone else, without making a few people poor.



How exactly do rich people "take" money from people? The only entity which takes money from people (legally) is the government.

When a business sells a product they are not forcing people to buy it. It's a voluntary act on the part of the purchaser to buy said product. Does MacDonalds round people up at gunpoint and herd them into their resturaunts and force them to buy Big Macs?

[Lune]

How exactly do rich people "take" money from people? The only entity which takes money from people (legally) is the government.

For one thing, the rich people currently own the government.

When a business sells a product they are not forcing people to buy it. It's a voluntary act on the part of the purchaser to buy said product. Does MacDonalds round people up at gunpoint and herd them into their resturaunts and force them to buy Big Macs?

The government currently cuts their corporate patrons tax breaks, subsidies, antitrust protection, deregulation, and bailouts in exchange for campaign contributions aka bribes.

It really manifests less as them 'taking money from people' and more as class warfare and wage depression. Corporate interests (represented by both democrats and republicans) go through great lengths to diminish unions, block labor laws, and depress wages.

It's really apparent with real estate, with wealthy investors buying up large amounts of housing and renting it out, completely refusing to build affordable medium-income housing (in cahoots with municipal governments), resulting in both housing prices and the cost of rent being stupidly inflated. We're basically in another bubble already. The skyrocketing rent and mortgage payments siphon away huge amounts of disposable income and dampen spending, retarding GDP growth in a manner similar to how excessive gas prices helped precipitate the 2007 meltdown.

As more and more wealth becomes concentrated in the hands of a few, their ability to capture an even larger share of both existing wealth and newly generated wealth increases, due to the fundamental reality of economics: that wealth is conducive to more wealth, and no free market force exists to correct for inequality.

[maskedmelon]

hey buddy! Thought I should help you in you quest to get to the greater good thingy you're after.. as in whats the right thing to do?

Ok first of all, one should know that this stuff has been debated by those in control of the goverments of continents, thousands of years ago!

So there has been a lot of trial and error in the arena heh, were not onto something new here is all Im saying.

Second of all, it has been evdient that societies that help the weaker, overall become stronger.

Societies that dont, suffer and deteriate.

The simplest reasoning is, if you dont feed the poor, they will figure out a way to take your food.

That is a scaleable concept that goes all the way up to housing, medicating, entertaining etc.

Now another thing you should think about is how the poor greatly outnumber the wealthy, in all capitalist systems. In all systems really, you can bet that you cant get rich, unless you're taking money from someone else, and you cant take money from someone else, without making a few people poor.

So, what do you do when everyoen is poor? theres nobody left to take money from!... deteriation.

By taxing the rich, giving money to the poor, the rich are able to create more jobs, more outlets for the poor spend money, make more $$

The economy works in a huge circular effect. It's not like the wild kingdom, it's entirely different.

Now all that said, there are a few things that WE DO for our nation, like make it a friendly place to visit, contribute with every paycheck, go to war in defense of it, hell, we BUILT it.

Because of all that, we are OWED something in return and what that is, is a safe place that protects our civil liberties and helps us grow.

The government pay for that through taxes, it's the price to enter the park. Nobody is immune from them nobody has that right, no matter who they are... right now the rich think they are however.

You don't get to walk into disneyland and ride everything for free, no mater how famous and rich you are. You want the park to yourself? Well guess what, you either buy the whole thing, or you pay to rent it out for the day. Both of which cost A LOT of money.

Why should the rich be able to rent the whole country for the day, or buy the whole thing, for virtually nothing?

No, they need to pay their taxes, and the amount of space you want to occupy or time you want the park to yourself (metaphors for how rich you want to be) increases parallelly.

Remember, the rich cannot be the rich without the poor. You cannot be a Job Creator, if there is nobody that wants to do the work. The poor, are more valuble than the rich by a LONG shot... Stop living in fear of 1-2% of the world.

What of the people allowed free (or worst yet, paid) admission to the park for stubbing their toes, shitting their pants or walking into a wall. Declaring free admittance for those activities only serves to line the pockets of podiatrists, Hanes and radiologists while encouraging foolish behavior.

A lot of other interesting material in your post that could take us in all kinds of different directions, but I do not want to stray too far at the moment ^^

[iruinedyourday]

What of the people allowed free (or worst yet, paid) admission to the park for stubbing their toes, shitting their pants or walking into a wall. Declaring free admittance for those activities only serves to line the pockets of podiatrists, Hanes and radiologists while encouraging foolish behavior.

A lot of other interesting material in your post that could take us in all kinds of different directions, but I do not want to stray too far at the moment ^^

not quite sure what you're talking about exactly but the examples you give, are like, well... Let me give it a shot: In this scenario you give, all those people with the literally pathetic excuses as to why they should be allowed to enter the park for free, will be outed as frauds and go to jail for collecting unemployment or welfare while working under the table for example (something that happens A LOT.. its not as easy to scam the system as the conservative may try to make you think).. or they are being truthful and in which case wont actually be trying to get into the park, because they are full blown crazies and will spend there time shitting in their pants at the hospital where they are taken care of.

Or lastly, they will be very intelligent but have not so good morals, and you just will get annoyed with them the way you do anywhere else in the world.

as if going to every starbucks or driving on every freeway or crossing every crosswalk, you DON'T get frustrated with the myriad of contributing good people, who just don't seem to know how to operate without being a fucking incredible nuisance to everyone else.

[maskedmelon]

...due to the fundamental reality of economics: that wealth is conducive to more wealth, and no free market force exists to correct for inequality.

This is true and the reason why individual wealth ought to be regulated as a matter of pragmatism. There will always be those who wildly outperform the rest of the population and unchecked, that can be detrimental to the group depending on its composition.

What of those who regularly underperform or habitually err? Why should the rest of society pay for their failures?

[Lune]

What of the people allowed free (or worst yet, paid) admission to the park for stubbing their toes, shitting their pants or walking into a wall. Declaring free admittance for those activities only serves to line the pockets of podiatrists, Hanes and radiologists while encouraging foolish behavior.

A lot of other interesting material in your post that could take us in all kinds of different directions, but I do not want to stray too far at the moment ^^

The idea that welfare has some Pavlovian effect on people and creates a welfare underclass is a myth largely created out of right wing contempt for impoverished blacks, who would have been an underclass anyway.

That said, having a system of universal single-payer healthcare that takes care of people if they get cancer or break a bone after they just got laid off by their employer who shipped their job overseas isn't rewarding stupidity, it's providing a basic social safety net in an effort to make a capitalist world slightly less shitty to live in than it otherwise could be.

As long as "Fuck you I got mine" is the prevailing ideology in the US, we're going to continue to fall further and further behind the rest of the developed world, as popular contempt for the concept of government makes it increasingly easier for Democrats and Republicans to serve the interests of the elite instead of you.

[Lune]

This is true and the reason why individual wealth ought to be regulated as a matter of pragmatism. There will always be those who wildly outperform the rest of the population and unchecked, that can be detrimental to the group depending on its composition.

What of those who regularly underperform or habitually err? Why should the rest of society pay for their failures?

What is it you think we are doing for underperformers? Do you have any idea what welfare is actually like in the United States? It's not a glamorous existence.

One of the reasons it's in our best interest to try to help them is because of how profoundly poverty is heritable, and all the ways that growing up impoverished stunts an individual. Punishing somebody for being impoverished, or leaving them to die, may feel good and just, but it does little to solve the problem. And this is less about just giving them money, and more about providing opportunity. (Affordable tuition, affordable housing, decent wages)

[Orruar]

Haven't you people figured out yet that you will never change each others minds about politics?


Maybe it's less about convincing other people than it is about learning to better articulate and hone our own beliefs.

[Orruar]

In all systems really, you can bet that you cant get rich, unless you're taking money from someone else, and you cant take money from someone else, without making a few people poor.

lol, someone who believes all economic systems are zero sum games. You literally have failed to grasp the very core of what an economy is and how it produces wealth. It's no wonder you fall for appeals to emotion and simplistic arguments.

[iruinedyourday]

lol, someone who believes all economic systems are zero sum games. You literally have failed to grasp the very core of what an economy is and how it produces wealth. It's no wonder you fall for appeals to emotion and simplistic arguments.

look at this guy over dramatize this shit like he's on a stage, take your shakespeare sounding bullshit to the next klan meeting.

I am 100% accurate and correct and you have nothing to offer this conversation except folded arms pouty cry baby shit.

[Orruar]

look at this guy over dramatize this shit like he's on a stage, take your shakespeare sounding bullshit to the next klan meeting.

I am 100% accurate and correct and you have nothing to offer this conversation except folded arms pouty cry baby shit.

And this is your counterargument. Classic.

IRYD > Combustion engines only work because they destroy the souls of puppies
Orruar > You don't understand the basics of how chemical energy from gasoline is converted to kinetic energy
IRYD > Take your fancy words back to your klan rally, they have no place here

[maskedmelon]

What is it you think we are doing for underperformers? Do you have any idea what welfare is actually like in the United States? It's not a glamorous existence.

One of the reasons it's in our best interest to try to help them is because of how profoundly poverty is heritable, and all the ways that growing up impoverished stunts an individual. Punishing somebody for being impoverished, or leaving them to die, may feel good and just, but it does little to solve the problem. And this is less about just giving them money, and more about providing opportunity. (Affordable tuition, affordable housing, decent wages)

Of course it isn't glamorous. By funding it you perpetuate misery. It is literally subsidy of failure, which is endemic. Those who rise from poverty rise from it whether given aid or not. Those who do not, do not whether given aid or not. Offering aid is self-serving but praiseworthy for the bold embrace of compassion in the cold face of reason. Beseeching the government to offer aid at the expense of others who have succeeded isn't even commendable on those grounds because you are only alleviating the personal cost of your moral crusade by spreading it across others who have overcome and may or may not share your sensibilities.

Suggesting normal people might somehow revel in allowing others to die is really quite inane. To the contrary, humans are social creatures who generally share a profound desire to help their fellow man even when not in their own interest. The problem of course arises when your chosen recipient fails to reciprocate your efforts.

[Lune]

Those who rise from poverty rise from it whether given aid or not. Those who do not, do not whether given aid or not.

This is just not true, and represents such a fundamental lack of understanding about the forces that go into play regarding social mobility.

Yes, exceptional individuals will often improve their station. However, the presence of opportunities, support, and pathways out of poverty not only make it easier for someone to climb out, but also help negate the deleterious effects poverty has on human capital. If you consider the opportunities I had being born rich, to my nephew who was born to a fat white trash druggie mother (drank alcohol while pregnant) and abusive absentee father, who the fuck do you think is going to grow into a more capable person 9 times out of 10? I had a fucking godlike education, excellent nutrition, an extensive support network, great healthcare, my parents paid for my bachelors. I would have to have been completely retarded not to "succeed". Compare that to if I grew up in poverty, and it would have been much more difficult.

Consider the US military, which is in many ways a welfare program for young males. All the myriad benefits that come from military service, including the GI bill, veterans preference points for countless occupations, professional development, occupational training, VA healthcare, etc etc, end up being a springboard out of poverty for many individuals.

I'm not saying I'm even in support of direct welfare. We shouldn't just cut people a check. But things like affordable healthcare, affordable housing, and affordable tuition are not subsidizing stupidity, they are investing in human capital.

[iruinedyourday]

And this is your counterargument. Classic.

IRYD > Combustion engines only work because they destroy the souls of puppies
Orruar > You don't understand the basics of how chemical energy from gasoline is converted to kinetic energy
IRYD > Take your fancy words back to your klan rally, they have no place here

u fuckn tard, your entire argument was just a senseless flame.. then you try to say my counter argument is weak?!?

Look at this shit idiot:

lol, someone who believes all economic systems are zero sum games. You literally have failed to grasp the very core of what an economy is and how it produces wealth. It's no wonder you fall for appeals to emotion and simplistic arguments.


Thre is no content in your post, you have no argument, you just ranted about nothing. lol idiot jesus you are stupid.

[James_Joyce]

The US military, student loans, and academic scholarship already provide every leg up a motivated individual requires to succeed in USA if he works on a marketable skillset. I have more than one friend from an utterly destitute family who went to my rather expensive school on loan/scholarship combination with zero dollars from parentals and now makes over $100k in their 20s. The idea that the American system is stacked against those who try is insane; only subsidizing failure and income from interest can stack the deck in favor of losers, against winners.

If you can't make straight A's throughout high school and are unwilling to take any of the other options available to you, you deserve to fail. I don't really feel for kids who have a fucked up family situation unless we're talking about overt abuse and prevention from doing your dues, which does happen I will admit. Nevertheless, if you require guidance to seek your own happiness, go and suffer.

I lived alone in a house throughout the entirety of high school yet had two no-show jobs throughout, graduated valedictorian while only attending about 50% of classes thanks to some scams I was running with fake minutes to fake student government meetings, and with $20k in the bank and a full scholarship to a reasonably prestigious university. At some point I went from unapproachable nerd in shabby clothes to rock star in fine self-bought raiment having my dick sucked by the girl I beat out for valedict, after she got done sobbing about being defeated. The only leg up I had is a couple of not terribly intelligent parents who got me turned on to reading at a young age so I wouldnt turn out like them, and then left me alone after age 5. Life is fucking easy, and fun as shit too if you're willing to see it for what it is and bend the rules to your will instead of clinging to some servile sense of morality. If not, go drown in your own shit slave.

Same goes for the terminally unemployed. Is everything on your resume 100% legit? Either you're such a badass that that is plenty convincing, or you're doing it wrong.

I'll concede that college education is stupidly expensive in the US and student loans too easy to get in too large an amount for too stupid/lazy a person, which needs to be addressed. It's sick that we try to pull minors into interest slavery when they are still too young to understand the full consequences.

Consider that perhaps the heritable cases of poverty are the descendents of oarsmen with shit genetics who haven't been subject to natural selection for too many generations, and should be sterilized in favor of those willing and able to use available options to rise above their birth circumstances.

[iruinedyourday]

The US military, student loans, and academic scholarship already provide every leg up a motivated individual requires to succeed in USA if he works on a marketable skillset.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/degrassi/images/e/e3/Jack_black_stop.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131109054409https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_7jpz_55EdM/maxresdefault.jpghttp://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8v111eViw1qzn7xi.jpghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7b/9f/94/7b9f94215f920e5d79b038c3602acecf.jpghttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/lJ1o0uRTvNU/hqdefault.jpghttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y0ASlP_8_zU/hqdefault.jpghttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/09Ip3tdalgk/maxresdefault.jpghttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/yOdeg4HNl6g/maxresdefault.jpghttp://thelaughbutton.com/site2/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/jack_black-300x218.jpg

[James_Joyce]

I fail to see how an illiterate can even argue this point with me IRYD. If you qualified as a "motivated individual" your posts here would look a lot different.

[James_Joyce]

But that's not mummy and daddy promised me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Srsly though arguing to break'bend rules means the system need fixin

It really doesn't, though.

There will always be those who bend human systems to their will. Separating leaders out from the submissive followers is an important part of any hierarchical system, and every successful human society in history has required a hierarchical system of some kind to maintain any stability. Feature, not bug.

[One Tin Soldier]

Maybe it's less about convincing other people than it is about learning to better articulate and hone our own beliefs.

I can accept that but it doesn't explain why I started posting in this thread.

[Lictor]

IRYD has yet to make a well thought out post. And has been much more angry and violent the forums lately.

Iryd is just mad that the entire red server is up in arms about the only holo shaman switching teams. I guess iryd's shaman is not as badass as he brags about on the forums as no one even knows he is in the guild.

[quido]

damn that Killer Mike guy is annoying

[James_Joyce]

tactical black friend

[iruinedyourday]

IRYD has yet to make a well thought out post. And has been much more angry and violent the forums lately.

ru kiding me

my startrek post obvisouly qualifies me as most brilliant mind on the box

[iruinedyourday]

Iryd is just mad that the entire red server is up in arms about the only holo shaman switching teams. I guess iryd's shaman is not as badass as he brags about on the forums as no one even knows he is in the guild.

who are you?

[Filthy_Pagan]

I think the obvious solution here is for everyone to just kill themselves since there's absolutely no objective purpose or end goal to any of the shit any life form could ever argue on elf forums about.

[iruinedyourday]

all i can say is im a fucking snowflake

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

all i can say is im a fucking charichiture and an attention whore.

[iruinedyourday]

my dick swings over your head

[iruinedyourday]

I fail to see how an illiterate can even argue this point with me IRYD. If you qualified as a "motivated individual" your posts here would look a lot different.

Just saw this

Ok sure pal, let's try to have a debate, but I'll only play if you keep the subject to one clear and short point and then we'll do a few posts back and forth and regroup and see where we stand after that, and if we come to some sort of understanding we can move into another point.

[James_Joyce]

Just saw this

Ok sure pal, let's try to have a debate, but I'll only play if you keep the subject to one clear and short point and then we'll do a few posts back and forth and regroup and see where we stand after that, and if we come to some sort of understanding we can move into another point.

last time i gave that an honest try you got scared & said "did not read"

not fallin for THAT again

[iruinedyourday]

Well if u get high some night lmk I'll have fun

[Pokesan]

Well if u get high some night lmk I'll have fun

are you gonna tag the fuck up or what fucker

[James_Joyce]

Well if u get high some night lmk I'll have fun

r u implyig i'm not high every night?

[iruinedyourday]

are you gonna tag the fuck up or what fucker

I seriously am so dumb I can't figure out how to change my sig lol

[Swish]

The person or party that talks the most common sense never wins an election - because that's politics and its an old boy's network of the same old faces.

I wonder if Hilary will be any good.

[iruinedyourday]

According to the right Bernie is speaking in tongues so he's right on track.

[AzzarTheGod]

Maybe it's less about convincing other people than it is about learning to better articulate and hone our own beliefs.

This is what I do, as I am sure many others are doing. This isn't the proper forum to have a formal debate to convince anyone of anything..unless two people agree to mutual combat and respect :o

I know there is a better term for it than writing a whole sentence to describe it. And "self-improvement" isn't it..



r u implyig i'm not high every night?

Big J is high as hypodermic needle use, may he give you legal proof

-credit for paraphrased bars to the angst-king rapper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND4t8yPQzKQ

[maskedmelon]

Maybe it's less about convincing other people than it is about learning to better articulate and hone our own beliefs.

Absolutely, and there is no better path to understanding than exploring other perspectives. I refine my views regularly, but the principles behind them do not change and I would expect the same to be true for other rational human beings. Those principles are:

1. Be not a nuisance
2. Behave responsibly

The principles directly reflect what I value most in my life: peace. I hate fighting and generally just want to be left alone. At the same time I hold reason and skepticism (eww an -ism, I know) in high regard since it is those qualities, the exceptional ability to consider and act outside of primal impulse that distinguishes man from most other creatures.

Differing principles allow for divergent conclusions given the same data even among comparable intellects. Unfortunately we can almost always find contradictory data sets, each created to validate the views of their collectors and since none of the rest of us have the time to conduct the research first-hand, we are generally inclined to choose the data that supports our world view. So we are left with people arguing from two entirely different worlds, often reluctant to understand or even view another world for fear that their own might be a farce. An open mind is an extraordinary rarity and is something most people are incapable of despite the low bar of admission.

At the end of the day I am mostly interested in learning how people make the decisions they do.

[Thik]

Go Bernie!