Shaman race poll

[Videri]

There have been many threads about shaman race choice, but I thought of a different approach. Please respond only if you have played a shaman extensively, at least to 50+. Imagine you decided to delete your character and restart. Which race would you choose?

The goal is to help players choose their new shaman's race. There is probably no strictly superior shaman race, and players may prefer races based on appearance, roleplaying, and lore; but at least with this poll, we can see how players feel about their choice of race.

I'm curious to see if a strong lead emerges or if there is an approximate tie between two or more races. Let's see how this develops.

[Troxx]

As of the end of january:

-50% of ogres who have responded would reroll another race
-More than 50% of barbarians would reroll another race
-90% of trolls would troll again
-85% of iksars would iksar again

[Varren]

No bush/towers?

[Ricky Bobby]

I have a level 58 barbarian shaman.
I am in the process of re-rolling as a Troll. I'm in the mid 40s.

Why Troll and not iksar? I wanted to play with Clickie Snare & JBB.
I believe Troll is the best race for shamans. Everyone has their own opinion, this is mine.

The only thing I like about my barb is the number of cities I can enter without them being KOS. But in the time that I have played my barb I learned many places a troll of innoruuk could buy/sell. Plus by the time I hit the higher 50's I was spending most of my time in velious lands so I just used thurgadin as my home city. So the perk of being a good guy was kind of null.

Then there was the fact that I was getting something like 10 less hit points per tick while sitting.

There is the barbarian spiritualist hammer,.. which I never used. But I read that the granite face grinder is better dps. So whats the point of a 2h that's lower dps and will get replaced by an epic someday. I would take the snare clickie over that any day of the week, no matter how weak the snare is.

Iksar is a good choice but they have certain minor limitations on gear pre-raid, depending on your budget. They also cant use JBB which isn't a deal breaker for some people. But I like that slow cast free 250 dd. /shrug
Some people prefer their AC bonus over the JBB.

I don't like how ogres look so i'm never playing an ogre. But I can see how their frontal stun immunity could come in handy against hard hitting mobs. especially when you need to land that slow.

People can talk about which race to play as a shaman until they're blue in the face. it's been talked about a lot of these forums. I think every angle has been discussed. So if anyone is unsure. Just search the forums on the subject. you'll likely find several threads discussing it.

Once I get my Troll shaman to get 58 I plan on doing a couple tests to compare barb vs troll.

[Varren]

I have a level 58 barbarian shaman.
I am in the process of re-rolling as a Troll. I'm in the mid 40s.

Why Troll and not iksar? I wanted to play with Clickie Snare & JBB.
I believe Troll is the best race for shamans. Everyone has their own opinion, this is mine.

I agree. I have an iksar, and although iksars look the best, I wish I had rolled troll. Wish I had the better stats and the slam, mostly. At 51 currently and won't reroll. Its not that big of a deal to me and I do like the iksar.

[Troxx]

Trolls are awesome.

They're ugly as sin and I love that. Slam is nice. The clicky snare is quite useful (though I wish it lasted longer or casted faster). Starting stats are good, the low wisdom isn't a bother as your mana is more dependent on regen.

I finally saved up enough for a fungi, should ding 58 tomorrow.

48 hp a tick sitting regen is just insane. With canni conversion ratios, the extra regen alone after 56 is like having an extra clarity/c2 over barbarian and ogre.

It gives you a lot more mana to work with and really reduces your downtime while also giving you a wide extra measure of safety.

[Ricky Bobby]

I finally saved up enough for a fungi, should ding 58 tomorrow.

48 hp a tick sitting regen is just insane. With canni conversion ratios, the extra regen alone after 56 is like having an extra clarity/c2 over barbarian and ogre.

It gives you a lot more mana to work with and really reduces your downtime while also giving you a wide extra measure of safety.

This is exactly why I felt I needed to re-roll from barb.

For people who can't afford a fungi tunic there is a cheaper option.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Ceremonial_Iksar_Chestplate

It is what I use and it's amazing for it's price point. Granted it has no stats (STA/WIS) but the +5 regen (only 10 less per tick from a fungi & without the movement speed debuff) has a huge impact on my downtime. Also worth noting that this regen ticks whether I'm standing or sitting and stacks with the life regen line of spells.

These things combined with a natural regen of the Troll or Iksar is definitely a game changer,. with or without torpor I'd be willing to bet.
In a way it reminds me of how Iksar Necro's can out perform non-Iksar necros. In terms of life to mana ratios.

==Edit==
One thing that crossed my mind is that both Troll & Iksar have -20% exp.
I have noticed that hell levels are more difficult to grind through. However if you're going for level 60 no matter what. -20% isn't going to stop you. It will just make things a tad slower. approx 1.2x slower /laugh Depending on your leveling methods.
But level 59 for example would be the only level where I see a exponential difference in the amount of exp you have to grind. Level 54 is also a double hell level so that one may be a pain to grind through too. It's not like you're going to skip those levels as another race though. So I don't see the pain of having to grind a little extra as being a huge turn off.

==Edit==
Varren mentions slam. I can't tell you the number of times that I have been able to stun a mob in flee mode or interrupt a mobs casting via the use of slam. While it only does 1 point of dmg. The utility of it is quite useful when you apply it in the right situation. Not perfect but with a little rng can be the difference between life and death.

[Slave35]

Here's the dirty low-down:

Ogre has frontal stun immunity.
Level 60 with Torpor is absolutely the Shaman class's power spike.
Level 60 with Torpor nullifies any regeneration bonus the Troll might enjoy.
Level 60 with Torpor, Ogre is clearly the superior shaman, and probably the strongest race/class combination in the game.
If you don't care about level 60 with Torpor, and farming the hardest things you can and doing it the easiest, then Troll has a great look, regeneration, and snare click.

tl;dr: Troll 1-59. Ogre 60.

[Varren]

I can't tell you the number of times that I have been able to stun a mob in flee mode or interrupt a mobs casting via the use of slam. While it only does 1 point of dmg. The utility of it is quite useful when you apply it in the right situation. Not perfect but with a little rng can be the difference between life and death.

This is the biggest thing for me honestly. It seems pretty important for a class that has no other way to interrupt a caster besides regular melee.

[Ricky Bobby]

Here's the dirty low-down:

Ogre has frontal stun immunity.
Level 60 with Torpor is absolutely the Shaman class's power spike.
Level 60 with Torpor nullifies any regeneration bonus the Troll might enjoy.
Level 60 with Torpor, Ogre is clearly the superior shaman, and probably the strongest race/class combination in the game.
If you don't care about level 60 with Torpor, and farming the hardest things you can and doing it the easiest, then Troll has a great look, regeneration, and snare click.

tl;dr: Troll 1-59. Ogre 60.

I see a pattern here. Torpor, Torpor, Torpor.
If Torpor is so huge then why do you say Ogre is the superior race? All shaman's of any race can use Torpor. Barb, Troll, Iksar.

Even while you're using Torpor you'll still be getting more health regen as a troll or iksar. So torpor+more health regen. Whoa.. And you said it yourself three times.. Torpor What does torpor do? it regens health. More health regen? Yes please.

Torpor lasts 4 ticks,. Standing a troll/iksar would get 33 more health then a ogre. Sitting they'd get 44 more health.
torpor = 300hp * 4 ticks = 1200 health
1276 health(ogre/barb(fungi)) vs 1308(troll/iksar(fungi)) standing
1288 health(ogre/barb(fungi)) vs 1332(troll/iksar(fungi)) sitting.

Frontal stun immunity or not,.. you're going to be regening so much it wont matter, Ogre or Not. Just use your spells, abilities and skill as a shaman to not get caught in a situation where you're getting frontal stun locked.
:D

I do not believe that the Ogre's racial is as crucial to the shaman class as say it is to the warrior class. The power of the shaman really doesn't come from it's race as has been mentioned many times. Even the op admits this. It's the spells it has in the endgame.

I know this card has been pulled one too many times,. But there is Barb shamans who can do content just as hard as any other race. They don't get regen or frontal stun immunity. What does that tell you? I get the feeling the race doesn't matter honestly. But I rest easier at night thinking about my improved regen on my troll vs my barb.

Edit: Why did I take time to write all this out? Your post makes it sound like ogre is the clear cut winner. At least in my initial post I presented some positive facts about all the shaman race choices. Saying that one is better just because it is doesn't help people.

[Slave35]

I see a pattern here. Torpor, Torpor, Torpor.
If Torpor is so huge then why do you say Ogre is the superior race? All shaman's of any race can use Torpor. Barb, Troll, Iksar.

Even while you're using Torpor you'll still be getting more health regen as a troll or iksar. So torpor+more health regen. Whoa.. And you said it yourself three times.. Torpor What does torpor do? it regens health. More health regen? Yes please.

Torpor lasts 4 ticks,. Standing a troll/iksar would get 33 more health then a ogre. Sitting they'd get 44 more health.
torpor = 300hp * 4 ticks = 1200 health
1276 health(ogre/barb(fungi)) vs 1308(troll/iksar(fungi)) standing
1288 health(ogre/barb(fungi)) vs 1332(troll/iksar(fungi)) sitting.

Frontal stun immunity or not,.. you're going to be regening so much it wont matter, Ogre or Not. Just use your spells, abilities and skill as a shaman to not get caught in a situation where you're getting frontal stun locked.
:D

I do not believe that the Ogre's racial is as crucial to the shaman class as say it is to the warrior class. The power of the shaman really doesn't come from it's race as has been mentioned many times. Even the op admits this. It's the spells it has in the endgame.

I know this card has been pulled one too many times,. But there is Barb shamans who can do content just as hard as any other race. They don't get regen or frontal stun immunity. What does that tell you? I get the feeling the race doesn't matter honestly. But I rest easier at night thinking about my improved regen on my troll vs my barb.

Edit: Why did I take time to write all this out? Your post makes it sound like ogre is the clear cut winner. At least in my initial post I presented some positive facts about all the shaman race choices. Saying that one is better just because it is doesn't help people.

Frontal stun immunity is the best racial ability in the entire game, let alone for shaman where it really matters the most. I thought this was so apparent as to be self-evident. Torpor means that any regeneration from Iksar and Troll are completely negated as a benefit. Stun immunity means that getting off just one more spell in an entire fight makes the Ogre another 400+ health more efficient, if that spell is Torpor, and 800+ if that spell is a Slow. Multiply that by every single time you cast a spell.

[Danth]

I get the feeling the race doesn't matter honestly.

I agree. The Shaman doesn't have a genuinely bad race choice; even its worst choice (Barbarian) still ranks among the better options for other classes.

I think, today, a significant consideration for a player just starting out is the massive cost of Torpor--in the 150K range and possibly climbing. There are Shaman players who level, group extensively, reach level 60, raid, then retire their Shamans to alt status without ever being able to afford Torpor. If I was starting today I'd take a long hard look at Iksars or Trolls. Without Torpor, those two have a better quality of life than the others, and Torpor isn't a sure thing for today's new player, if it ever was.

---------------------------------------------

EDIT: With respect to the Ogre racial, it's excellent for solo-based Shamans. The downside of bash resistance is how it becomes completely worthless as soon as the Shaman isn't being hit--like is the norm any time the Shaman groups with a competent tank, for example. Racial regen has the advantage of always being on and hence always providing its benefit regardless of play style.

Danth

[iruinedyourday]

Here's the dirty low-down:

Ogre has frontal stun immunity.
Level 60 with Torpor is absolutely the Shaman class's power spike.
Level 60 with Torpor nullifies any regeneration bonus the Troll might enjoy.
Level 60 with Torpor, Ogre is clearly the superior shaman, and probably the strongest race/class combination in the game.
If you don't care about level 60 with Torpor, and farming the hardest things you can and doing it the easiest, then Troll has a great look, regeneration, and snare click.

tl;dr: Troll 1-59. Ogre 60.

yea but the superiority of the ogre at 60 is tantamount to saying the barbarian is superior cus in a weird twist of fate you managed to be running from something and got stuck in a tunnel and died because of the ogres size. The frontal stun provides that much of a leg up on the other races.

In other words, its not going to save you're life very much if at all, so I therefor would suggest regen/size as a palpable reason to choose a race.

Lastly, lets to be honest. No mater what perk you get, you'll think about how much the other perks would be more valuable to you... I did barb then ogre, and noticed how frustrating it was more than it was benifitial.. but I do remember playing my barb and every time I ran the gauntlet of rooted rotting mobs to change position and Id get stunned, id think FUCK I BET OGRE DOESN'T GET STUNNED *RAGE*

tl;dr there is no *best* choice, there is a choice that is best for you but in the end you'll think you've chosen wrong no mater what.

[Zill]

What the actual fuck is up with the poll options? Who makes a poll that way?

And OP u crazy for rerolling Barb for a fatty. Could have your epic and a girlfriend by the time u hit 58 on the Troll too

[Slave35]

tl;dr there is no *best* choice, there is a choice that is best for you but in the end you'll think you've chosen wrong no mater what.

I've played every race of shaman several times, then the Ogre to 60 and now have Torpor. The whole time before 60 on the Ogre I was still honestly thinking, "holy shit this is literally as OP as sex with two women at once." That's the last I'll comment. Draw your own conclusions; the data's already all here in this thread and about 100 others.

[Ricky Bobby]

Sorry about coming on so strong about the whole regen thing.
In my case I plan on being a group support shaman, I'll let the ogre warrior take the hits to the face. I don't plan on taking down raid bosses solo every day like Slave35 does.

So the improved regen for me is huge because it lasts forever.
http://i.imgur.com/9kpHL2o.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/Irck13N.png

[Slave35]

Sorry about coming on so strong about the whole regen thing.
In my case I plan on being a group support shaman, I'll let the ogre warrior take the hits to the face. I don't plan on taking down raid bosses solo every day like Slave35 does.

So the improved regen for me is huge because it lasts forever.
http://i.imgur.com/9kpHL2o.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/Irck13N.png

That's a pretty spreadsheet but remember by the time it really matters, you'll have Regrowth and a Fungi tunic, so add 30 to both sides. The qualitative difference between 4-12 is a lot more than that between 34-42.

[Troxx]

That's a pretty spreadsheet but remember by the time it really matters, you'll have Regrowth and a Fungi tunic, so add 30 to both sides. The qualitative difference between 4-12 is a lot more than that between 34-42.

a) a fungi isn't a given during your leveling outside of twinking
b) the difference sitting is +7/+10/+11 at 51/56/59, in groups, as soon as mobs are slowed and properly controlled, the smart shaman is either canni-dancing between med ticks or machine-gun canni-ing 5-8 fast cycles and then sitting for the extra 20 mana/tick meditating and the extra hp regen.
c) the regen stacks with regrowth and fungi, so it's a moot point
d) by the time the regen argument is negligible (torpor), you're already level 60 and practically done with EQ outside of raids, tunnelquesting, and farming for the sake of farming ... and that also requires a spell that currently sells for 150k+

The regen is always with you. It's always making you more efficient and giving you more mana. Compared to slightly better stats and frontal cone bash stun (not side, or back, not immune from push interrupt) ... regen for a lot of people is the clear winner.

Ogre FSI is nice. There are those that swear by it ... but I've met very few shamans who played iksar or troll and wished they had an ogre instead. I've met many ogres and barbarians who have expressed frustration/regret at not rolling a race that has innate regen. During your time spent leveling, it's a huge boon.

[iruinedyourday]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who says there is one beat shaman both doesn't know the best solo shaman on blue is a barb named triangle.

[Slave35]

a) a fungi isn't a given during your leveling outside of twinking
b) the difference sitting is +7/+10/+11 at 51/56/59, in groups, as soon as mobs are slowed and properly controlled, the smart shaman is either canni-dancing between med ticks or machine-gun canni-ing 5-8 fast cycles and then sitting for the extra 20 mana/tick meditating and the extra hp regen.
c) the regen stacks with regrowth and fungi, so it's a moot point
d) by the time the regen argument is negligible (torpor), you're already level 60 and practically done with EQ outside of raids, tunnelquesting, and farming for the sake of farming ... and that also requires a spell that currently sells for 150k+


A) Fungi tunic is required gear on a shaman if you are not desperately poor.
B) When you get a global CDR remover such as goblin beads, and have Torpor, sitting becomes obsolete.
C) Reducing the ratio of the regeneration is not a moot point, it's a math point.
D) I am level 60. I have Torpor. I am not practically done with EQ. This is my main character and focus despite other level 60s. This is anecdotal but so far it's the only one with actual experience that I've read in this thread.
I've met very few shamans who played iksar or troll and wished they had an ogre instead. I've met many ogres and barbarians who have expressed frustration/regret at not rolling a race that has innate regen. During your time spent leveling, it's a huge boon.
The results of this very poll scientifically belie this assertion.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anyone who says there is one beat shaman both doesn't know the best solo shaman on blue is a barb named triangle.
The only class/race combination that can solo all the same mobs I can with the same gear I have are also Ogre Shamans.

But be whatever you want to be - far be it for me to stop you. I enjoy being uniquely powerful compared to every other Shaman type on the server. This information is only included for posterity, and the value of truthful information.

[iruinedyourday]

The only class/race combination that can solo all the same mobs I can with the same gear I have are also Ogre Shamans.

would need some proof for this statement to have any water.

[Celatus]

Troll no question I have played probably every shaman race except frogs anywhere from 50 to 100 and would always go troll again.

[Malrubius]

Troll of course. I have an Ogre too, and he gets *interrupted* - a lot. It is NOT Frontal Interruption Immunity. If it were I'd consider it...but would probably still go with regen.

And the torpor argument is silly - nobody runs around bard-clicking torpor/canni all the time. You want a Fungi. You want Regrowth. All shammys want the most Regen they can possibly get.

[iruinedyourday]

Troll of course. I have an Ogre too, and he gets *interrupted* - a lot. It is NOT Frontal Interruption Immunity.

Side note, if you make a pve shaman on red, the stun immunity is a hindrance, you cant duck out of a cast, so if you get interrupted during a cast, you have to run around and wait for spell to fire and get inevitably interrupted.

While barb, gets stunned, and booted out of the cast. The stun tends to be a lot shorter than the duration of most spells.

buuuut that said, every once and a while you'll bash a ogre trying to gate and he'll get it off and you're like curse you fsu!

[Ricky Bobby]

One thing I did not even think about for the Iksar is certain endgame items that they're the only shamans who can use. For example..
http://wiki.project1999.com/Robe_of_the_Azure_Sky

That is a awesome robe that barbs, trolls and ogres can't wear.

Then there are items that aren't endgame but still not terrible, like..
http://wiki.project1999.com/Jarsath_Scale_Leggings

Ogres and Trolls can't use them but Iksar and Barbs can.

This whole which race can use which gear as a shaman has put a real spin on things for me. I'm not sure anymore.

[iruinedyourday]

The risk reward for iksar is the best as far as gearing goes.

Risk you are an ugly lizard

Reward you can get roask and a de mask from fm event and be best looking shaman possible. A robe wearing DE

[Troxx]

The results of this very poll scientifically belie this assertion.


Barbarian:
Out of 23 shamans, 11 of them (48%) would reroll. Of those 11 that would reroll, 9 of them would pick racial regen, 2 of them would pick FSI over racial regen.

Ogre:
Out of 18 shamans, 7 (39%) of them would reroll. Of those 7 that would reroll, none would pick barbarian. All of them would pick racial regen over FSI.

Troll:
Out of 22 shamans, 4 (18%) of them would reroll. Of those 4, 1 would pick the other race with racial regen. 3 of them (14%) would pick FSI over racial regen.

Iksar
Out of 15 shamans, 3 (20%) of them would reroll. Of those 3, 2 would pick the other race with racial regen. 1 of them (6%) would pick FSI over racial regen.

Of the 37 shamans who have racial regen, only 4 of them would prefer to have FSI.
Of the 41 shamans who lack racial regen, 16 of them would prefer to have racial regen.
Of the 18 shamans who have FSI, 7 of them would prefer to have the regen.

Compiled data, who wants to be playing what?

Barbarian: 12
Ogre: 17
Iksar:18
Troll: 31

It would appear that the results of this poll (scientifically or otherwise) are consistent with my experiences with shaman satisfaction broken down by race. The race least satisfied are barbarians, followed by ogres. Trolls have the highest satisfaction, iksars 2nd highest.

[Zill]

People are seriously underestimating how shitty -20 Fire resistance for Trolls is. Like that should be a massive turnoff, throw the biggest XP penalty on top and it's even worse. Sure they have Regen but so do Iksars and Iksars aren't fucked like Trolls.

Ogre is the master race hands down. I literally rolled all 3 races for Shaman and it's just stupid how much better Ogre plays. Their stats just make them hit so hard and so often it's like you're playing 1-10 as any other race with Druid buffs.

[Baler]

@Zill - Velious is out,. resist gear is here.
Edit: There are far more resistance gear options then there were in the kunark era. Any negative racial related stat or resistance doesn't much matter at level 60 with end game gear.

[iruinedyourday]

People are seriously underestimating how shitty -20 Fire resistance for Trolls is. Like that should be a massive turnoff, throw the biggest XP penalty on top and it's even worse. Sure they have Regen but so do Iksars and Iksars aren't fucked like Trolls.

Ogre is the master race hands down. I literally rolled all 3 races for Shaman and it's just stupid how much better Ogre plays. Their stats just make them hit so hard and so often it's like you're playing 1-10 as any other race with Druid buffs.

good point considering an item with +20 fire would be worth a lot of plat, but I guess not if it had -18 regen on it though heh

But it is a valid concern if you want to stack 250 fire for pvp hehe

Most pvp players love troll though, i think its the look + regen idk

[Zill]

@Zill - Velious is out,. resist gear is here.
Edit: There are far more resistance gear options then there were in the kunark era. Any negative racial related stat or resistance doesn't much matter at level 60 with end game gear.
If you're going to roll a Troll and equip him with Velious armor right off the bat then kudos to you - otherwise getting to that point at 60 is pretty damn lame.

People bitch about races that start with less than 75 agility; if you ask me starting with -20 FR is waaaay worse. Like congrats on that Regen bud you're really gonna need it after every caster NPC you bump into.

[Semmysosa]

How does the ogre stun ability work on Red?
Can you not duck as an ogre?
I am thinking Troll but with the negative fr lots of classes could eat you up.

[Pyrocat]

People bitch about races that start with less than 75 agility; if you ask me starting with -20 FR is waaaay worse. Like congrats on that Regen bud you're really gonna need it after every caster NPC you bump into.

You don't actually fight that many caster NPCs as you level up, let alone ones with fire nukes, let alone ones where you'll just be standing there getting nuked instead of the tank / LoSing it.

I'm happy to see Trolls have the most satisfaction and Barbarian's the least. All is as it should be.

[Daywolf]

You don't actually fight that many caster NPCs as you level up, let alone ones with fire nukes, let alone ones where you'll just be standing there getting nuked instead of the tank / LoSing it. hah this is true! The devs collected all such mobs out of starting zones just before beta and dropped them all into nek forest into big clumps so to annihilate newbie dark elves :p
Shammies can breath a sigh of relief of course.

[Kevynne]

Barb is the easiest shm race, Iksar and Troll are prefered for the regen. No clue why people play ogre shaman.

[Semmysosa]

Found this.

Posted by iruinedyohrday

So, I wanted to share some advice, if you do decide to roll a shaman. First why not roll a shaman? Shamans set themselves up for disaster on red99. What I mean by that is, a shaman doing his thing at its best, is the easiest target for another player to get a YT.

Shamans kill things slowly, and they kill a lot of things at once. So if you are farming, you likely will have many things rooted and slowly dotting themselves to death. Think about how difficult a pvp engagement is going to be when you add 4 or 6 angry mobs breaking root, perma-agroed on you. Now think about that same pvp engagement that starts with you at about 40 or 50% health, because you're using the shamans ability to turn HPs into Mana... not very promising. These reasons are why shaman doing his job at its best, is setting himself up for disaster.

Now, if you do chose to roll a shaman, there's a funny thing about Race selection on red. Dont pick an ogre. Ogre on red is the worst of the shamans. This is because of a few reasons, but most importantly frontal stun immunity is basically worthless on a server, that doesn't allow duck casting. When you have 3 mobs on you, all bashing, you WILL get interrupted. On blue that's fine, you duck out of the cast and re cast, avoiding the 3-4 second frozen stun moment as an ogre (which make you feel invincible on blue) and getting right back into action. But on red, you cant interrupt that spell cast, you'll know your spell is going to get interrupted, but you cant stop it, and it was an epic click and now you have to wait 11 seconds to see that fantastic message, your spell has been interrupted. That said, if you were a class that was not immune to frontal stun, your spell timer bar would disappear on a bash, you'd get stuck, frozen in place for 3 seconds, and then be back casting a fresh, non interrupted version of the same spell. 11 Seconds > 3 Seconds and what you want is less time wasted, not more. The inability to break a cast, makes frontal stun a hindrance more than a boon on red.

Another thing to consider is regen on red is far more important than it is on blue... you wont find yourself kiting a mob around for a minuet or two to get more HP regen in, but you will find yourself doing that in pvp. So I personally suggest Iksar. The reason I suggest iksar over troll, is size also matters on red. A big shaman is an easy target in group pvp, or for a ganker, so if you are smaller, its a little easier for you to be unnoticed.. also it just feels so god damned easy to hit an ogre or a troll with melee attacks, its easier for a iksar to duck and weave.

tl;dr - dont make a shaman unless you know for a fact you can overcome the pain and you want to RP as one - dont make an Ogre cus frontal stun on red is null & void, make an iksar cus regen/size matters.

Hope this helps!
____________


So it seems Barb for faction or Troll for regen due to slam being a must in PvP.

[iruinedyourday]

PRAS ;)

[Pyrocat]

Barb is the easiest shm race, Iksar and Troll are prefered for the regen. No clue why people play ogre shaman.

Only thing barb has going for them is slightly higher starting wisdom, slightly less exp penalty, and nonkos to good races. Weigh that against lack of regen, stamina, infraviaion, good looks, and regen. In a cannibalizing world, the man with regen is king. Less downtime > slightly more exp needed to level.

As far as faction goes, my troll is non-kos in NFreeport, Paineel, Grobb, Cabils, Ogguk, Neriak, OT, and probably a few more I'm forgetting. Faction isn't an issue and as a bonus you can slaughter guards in cities you're kos in without worry.

[thufir]

As far as faction goes, my troll is non-kos in NFreeport, Paineel, Grobb, Cabils, Ogguk, Neriak, OT, and probably a few more I'm forgetting. Faction isn't an issue and as a bonus you can slaughter guards in cities you're kos in without worry.
Yeah faction is really overrated. My ogre shadowknight is non-kos in all of Freeport, Firiona Vie, Neriak, Grobb, Oggok, Paineel, Highkeep, Highpass Hold, Qeynos Hills, a lot of North Qeynos, Rivervale, druid circles, etc. etc. It's just not that big of a deal. If you want to work on it some, you can undo Norrath's inherent racism. (Except with dwarves, just eat those guys)

[Kevynne]

Only thing barb has going for them is slightly higher starting wisdom, slightly less exp penalty, and nonkos to good races. Weigh that against lack of regen, stamina, infraviaion, good looks, and regen. In a cannibalizing world, the man with regen is king. Less downtime > slightly more exp needed to level.

As far as faction goes, my troll is non-kos in NFreeport, Paineel, Grobb, Cabils, Ogguk, Neriak, OT, and probably a few more I'm forgetting. Faction isn't an issue and as a bonus you can slaughter guards in cities you're kos in without worry.

all there spells are in one place too, barb is eziest

[Zill]

Ogres are the only race that becomes more effective rather than less effective at 50-60 so they get my vote.

Regen starts to really not matter, and frontal stun immunity does