Puppet Strings duration

[Kiwix]

Can anyone tell me if my CHA effects the duration for Allure when using Puppet Strings on mobs? I know that CHA does effect charm durations when a chanter casts the spell, but is it certain that Puppet Strings duration works the same way (the higher CHA the longer duration) for other classes as well?

I hope it made sence. Thanks in advance

[Vellaen]

It's a question of whether the CHA modifier is a mechanic applied to the enchanter class, or to their charm spells specifically. The only way to be sure would be a lot of testing, though I'm sure all the shamans/druids/etc. with strings can provide some anecdotal reports.

The fact that those classes can use puppet strings effectively (presumably without carrying around a bunch of CHA gear) would suggest that the CHA modifier is something specific to the enchanter class itself.

[Daldaen]

I can tell you, on my Druid, CHA does not impact the duration of String charges. So in that respect, it would seem that on Druids it is following through with the "no CHA Check for Druid Charms".

However, the few times I have used them on my cleric, with <100 worn CHA, I have had a ridiculous amount of breaks. I don't know if this was simply bad luck, or if it is actually checking CHA. This is an extremely small sample size though, way smaller than my Druid's.

I'm guessing the charm break formula is performed on a Class basis, not a spell basis. IE - When checking against things each tic for a charm break, the game is checking "What class is the charmer?" And not "What class can scribe this particular charm spell". If Druid it doesn't check CHA. If any other (non-Necro class) it likely does. Which likely makes more sense in the coding.

Svenn / Liia would be two good people to ask about this. From my hazy memory I seem to recall both swearing by CHA buffs/gear for strings charming things. Personally on my Druid I've never found CHA to be a determining factor. After a simply Tash stick proc many level 49-51 charmed pets last full duration under strings. Thus why they are so powerful for a Druid. And we get a 70% Pet Only Haste, 32 DS and heals.

[Erati]

he says it doesnt but I have had some gnarly 15 + min Puppet String charms when I had cha buffs on my druid ( however I tend to agree with Dald and feel that's mostly RNGness n superstition )

[Triangle]

It is difficult to make such a determination, but as a shaman I do buff charisma (bc why not) and switch around a couple items I have which, by coincidence, have charisma on them.

I have thought about buying a charisma set, but the reason I do not is that I still tank for my charmed pet 95% of the time. The only exception I can think of was vessil drozlin for the enc epic.

[zanderklocke]

Because I'm a loser, I mainly used puppet strings to sell OT hammers. However, cha and tash meant a great deal in terms of how long the charm took hold. The biggest effect overall though was level. If they were below level 50, they very rarely got charms to land.

As a level 60 bard charming giants in Permafrost when all hell broke lose on the way to Vox, I got a ton of resists and many charms of giants only lasted a few seconds. Then I'd have the random charm that would last like 30-40 seconds.

I've always wanted to charm the dino in OOT with puppet strings, give him some weapons and haste, and take him to seafuries to see how long he lasted killing seafuries without breaking charm. Been too lazy to do it.

P.S. Hello Svenn.

[brecon]

There is a lot of misinformation on the role of Cha even for Enchanters/Bards. Some people swear that Cha only effects initial resist for Charm, and not Charm duration.

The most common view (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83758) is that every 6 seconds during a charm, mobs roll a check based on some formula against, in order (1) the level difference vs. the enchanter, (2) the MR of the mob, and (3) the Enchanters Charisma. So basically, if the mob loses the level distance roll, it stays charmed. If the mob wins the level distance roll, then it rolls an MR roll. Only if the mob wins both the level difference and the MR roll does it even bother checking Cha on an enchanter, which is why everyone says the most important things in charm duration are level difference and MR.

If this is the correct understanding of how enchanter charm works (correct me if I'm wrong), then what happens for Druids and Necros is that there is no third roll for a charima check. The question then becomes whether the rest of their Charm roll formula (the way the level and MR checks are calculated) are somehow more favorable as a result, or whether druid and necro charms with similar MR levels should just hold less long due to the lack of a charisma roll.

Then, only having answered those questions, can we get back to the framing that Daldaen put: do non-charm classes utilize the enchanter/bard formula (with a cha check), or the druid/necro formula (with no cha check).

Assuming no dev input, the real answer has to be parsing a lot with puppet strings, which given the need to run like 100 samples at different cha levels for three classes (enchanter, necro or druid, non-charm class) is unlikely to happen.

[Lemonhead]

Just as a note, Shamans get animal charm.

[captnamazing]

Puppet strings uses Allure. Allure is in the enchanter charm line. All enchanter spells check user's base CHA. I believe your CHA, the MR of the mob at hand, and level disparity all play a role.

Source: Filbus the halfling warrior who sold OT hammers

[brecon]

Puppet strings uses Allure. Allure is in the enchanter charm line. All enchanter spells check user's base CHA. I believe your CHA, the MR of the mob at hand, and level disparity all play a role.

Source: Filbus the halfling warrior who sold OT hammers

Daldean's anecdotal evidence on his druid is that Charisma is not effecting his string duration. So it's not entirely clear whether it matters that it is an enchanter line spell (allure), or an enchanter casting it, that determines whether there is a CHA check.

[Man0warr]

If the CHA check was part of the spell and not the class, it would probably show up in the spell data correct?

[Kiwix]

However, the few times I have used them on my cleric, with <100 worn CHA, I have had a ridiculous amount of breaks. I don't know if this was simply bad luck, or if it is actually checking CHA. This is an extremely small sample size though, way smaller than my Druid's.

I'm guessing the charm break formula is performed on a Class basis, not a spell basis.


Maybe this indicates that it is a class thing. The cleric's level of CHA matters in the lull line of spells for the cleric (correct me if im wrong) so it would maybe make sence to check for CHA for a cleric (even though its another line of spell).

Just as a note, Shamans get animal charm.

Does anyone know if CHA effects the animal charm for a shaman or if its like the druid (no check)? If the conditions for animal charm is the same for the shaman as for the druid my guess is that the conditions for puppet strings charm for the shaman and the druid would be the same as well.

Looking forward to more input <3

[Treats]

The most common view (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83758) is that every 6 seconds during a charm, mobs roll a check based on some formula.

I don't know if this is is how it works on P99 -- If it is, it's wrong.

Duration should be set on the initial cast for every spell, it doesn't check each tick for a break or fade.

[maurilax]

I don't know if this is is how it works on P99 -- If it is, it's wrong.

Duration should be set on the initial cast for every spell, it doesn't check each tick for a break or fade.

How do you know? Evidence?

[-Catherin-]

There is a lot of misinformation on the role of Cha even for Enchanters/Bards. Some people swear that Cha only effects initial resist for Charm, and not Charm duration.

The most common view (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83758) is that every 6 seconds during a charm, mobs roll a check based on some formula against, in order (1) the level difference vs. the enchanter, (2) the MR of the mob, and (3) the Enchanters Charisma. So basically, if the mob loses the level distance roll, it stays charmed. If the mob wins the level distance roll, then it rolls an MR roll. Only if the mob wins both the level difference and the MR roll does it even bother checking Cha on an enchanter, which is why everyone says the most important things in charm duration are level difference and MR.

If this is the correct understanding of how enchanter charm works (correct me if I'm wrong), then what happens for Druids and Necros is that there is no third roll for a charima check. The question then becomes whether the rest of their Charm roll formula (the way the level and MR checks are calculated) are somehow more favorable as a result, or whether druid and necro charms with similar MR levels should just hold less long due to the lack of a charisma roll.

Then, only having answered those questions, can we get back to the framing that Daldaen put: do non-charm classes utilize the enchanter/bard formula (with a cha check), or the druid/necro formula (with no cha check).

Assuming no dev input, the real answer has to be parsing a lot with puppet strings, which given the need to run like 100 samples at different cha levels for three classes (enchanter, necro or druid, non-charm class) is unlikely to happen.

What is interesting in your link is that the second post by me is not my style of writing. which means "someone" had to have edited it with that explanation quote. Pretty much all I need to confirm what i knew all along.


Quote:

Q: What spell types are affected by Charisma?

A: Charisma does not directly affect any spell. Charisma affects what are known as 'saving throws' or 'secondary throws'.

When you cast a charm spell or mesmerise spell, the monster first checks against your level v it's level, then it checks against its resistance, then it checks against your charisma.

With duration spells such as charms, each tick the monster gets a saving throw and this process is repeated. If any one of these checks is successful (ie: you win the roll) then the spell holds.

Be aware thought that each of these checks is not just a 50 - 50 chance, formulas are in place which give each of these checks more or less of a chance for you to succeed.

Charisma has the smallest chance of succeeding. Your Level and the resistance type check have the greatest chance of you succeeding.