Im starting a bard

[Nokio]

Hi all,

I am starting a bard. Im gonna make him an half elf.

I am just not sure back in classic where bard used to put their point to be at their best.

If someone can take a little time to give me some hint as to where to put my starting point and maybe why, that would be great.

Thanks in advance!!

[Jify]

Starting points? All in Dex. Because fizzles on this server are directly proportional to hating your bard. Less fizzles = less bard hate = more dex = happy Nokio.

I'd suggest you carefully consider the bard and play it for a good long while before deciding to play it as a main. Bards have everything against them in classic, and even moreso on this server because of the lack of swarm&dot kiting and buggy stuck songs.

That being said, I'm having a blast on mine. I play my magician to kill stuff, and I play my bard to have fun! :)

[karsten]

take your starting points and put them into your mage alt

presto!

[Scrooge]

Karsten always has the answer!

[Nokio]

:p

Actualy my main is a mage just like it was during classic!! Actualy i started with a mage and when kunark released i started a bard. I am aware of those little "bug" with the bard but i believe that if you put some time you can work around them and still enjoy and kick ass as a bard (or am i wrong?)

What do you mean by "Bards have everything against them in classic ..." What would be the difference between a bard in classic and the one i started during kunark back then ?!

And you say that i should go all out into dex ? i believe cha was usefull too?

Thanks in advance again.

[guineapig]

Starting points? All in Dex. Because fizzles on this server are directly proportional to hating your bard. Less fizzles = less bard hate = more dex = happy Nokio.

I'd suggest you carefully consider the bard and play it for a good long while before deciding to play it as a main. Bards have everything against them in classic, and even moreso on this server because of the lack of swarm&dot kiting and buggy stuck songs.

That being said, I'm having a blast on mine. I play my magician to kill stuff, and I play my bard to have fun! :)


Bards are very important late game in places Like PoF. Stick with it!

[guineapig]

:p



And you say that i should go all out into dex ? i believe cha was usefull too?

Thanks in advance again.


Cha is only important for charm (and buy/sell rates of course). Anything else in the game that could possibly check versus charisma makes an extremely marginal difference at best.

Speaking of which, does anyone know in what way (if any) mez spells incorporate charisma into the calculation? That's the only other spell line I could think of that might use charisma.

And before anyone mentions it, low charisma does not positively effect fear spells, that was disproved long ago.

[canardvc]

To put an end to the WAY TOO MANY times argued CHA benifit issue...

Jewell, the operator of TheRunes.net asked a Dev about Total Domination, the Charm effectig AA.
Quote:
The total domination check is a secondary check that's made after you fail the first one. It's complete independant of all other calculations. It has nothing to do with lengthening the time between checks.

-Ryan


Quote:
Q: What spell types are affected by Charisma?

A: Charisma does not directly affect any spell. Charisma affects what are known as 'saving throws' or 'secondary throws'.

When you cast a charm spell or mesmerise spell, the monster first checks against your level v it's level, then it checks against its resistance, then it checks against your charisma.

With duration spells such as charms, each tick the monster gets a saving throw and this process is repeated. If any one of these checks is successful (ie: you win the roll) then the spell holds.

Be aware thought that each of these checks is not just a 50 - 50 chance, formulas are in place which give each of these checks more or less of a chance for you to succeed.

Charisma has the smallest chance of succeeding. Your Level and the resistance type check have the greatest chance of you succeeding.


Quote:
http://eq.crgaming.com/archives.asp?Day=8&Month=10&Year=1999&ID=4660&Action=View
Quote:
I checked with (Geoffrey Zatkin) this morning regardng the effect Charisma has in charming. The answer is that its effect is twofold.

Firstly it effects the chance at resisting the initial charm cast.

Secondly, and more importantly, it makes it harder for the charmed NPC's save to successfully roll. This basically means (charisma) does effect duration.



Found here :
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/classes.html?class=13&mid=1168777641123905100&num=4&page=1

[vageta31]

That may be how it was on live but definitely not how it is done on this server, or maybe across all EMU servers. Either the formula is completely different or one of the saving throw checks was made easier. Not only do enchanters seem to be able to charm things at or near their level fairly easily (level check), once they get something charmed it tends to stay that way a long time if their cha is over 200(saving throw). If their cha is lower then they cant seem to hold a charm for long but once its at a certain point its night and day. Almost seems like 200 cha is some sort of hard cap that changes the formula to be successful most of the time.

In that explanation above cha is the least important factor, but here it is the most important by far. I used to charm animals on live with my shaman with horrible cha and I could hold it long enough to kill at least a few mobs before it broke. Not on this server, I hardly hold it for a few ticks before it breaks.

It almost seems like the charm here with high enough cha (which isn't that hard to achieve unless you really f*kd up during creation) works like the AA dire charm skill.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a cool thing to be able to charm high level mobs and keep them for 7-8 minutes without concern of it breaking, just pointing out that it works nothing like live. And yes there's no doubt that right now it is OP that chanters can solo things like efreeti, frenzy, king, et.c. with this method.

In short, cha is supposed to be icing on the cake for people to get the most out of charm longevity. Tashani and your level should be the main factor with cha just making it that much better, it just doesn't work that way. If it did then druids and shamans could be able to hold charm on animals easier with just a nice MR debuff and being the right level. Then if they really wanted to go all out they could add some cha gear. As it stands it doesn't work like that.

[Nokio]

Hehe Thanks all for those answer it's really interesting. But sadly im still confused. Do I go all out into Dex or into Cha? or a mix of Both?

What would be the best to get the best out of my bard :p

[guineapig]

I would not put many (if any) starting points into charisma as, unless your only goal is to charm mobs through your career, it would be points wasted.

It's much easier to obtain charisma gear to use on a temporary basis for times when you do want to charm.

Other stats such as dex you will always use. Stamina for example should not be ignored if you plan on soloing a lot because you can't do much of anything when your dead.

Here are some fairly easy to obtain charisma items that can get you +100 or so charisma:

platinum star ruby veil +9
(2X) electrum star ruby ring +14
platinum cat's eye neck. +9
(2X) golden cat's eye bracer. +14
crude stein +15
siryn hair hood +13

Also chanter and shaman buffs can give you anywheer from +20 to +40 charisma and have a decent duration.


I play a chanter and I did not put a single point into charisma (90 charisma without gear/buffs but can get it to 200 with the gear mentioned and a self buff).

[Witness]

I would not put many (if any) starting points into charisma as, unless your only goal is to charm mobs through your career, it would be points wasted.

It's much easier to obtain charisma gear to use on a temporary basis for times when you do want to charm.

Other stats such as dex you will always use. Stamina for example should not be ignored if you plan on soloing a lot because you can't do much of anything when your dead.

Here are some fairly easy to obtain charisma items that can get you +100 or so charisma:

platinum star ruby veil +9
(2X) electrum star ruby ring +14
platinum cat's eye neck. +9
(2X) golden cat's eye bracer. +14
crude stein +15
siryn hair hood +13

Also chanter and shaman buffs can give you anywheer from +20 to +40 charisma and have a decent duration.


I play a chanter and I did not put a single point into charisma (90 charisma without gear/buffs but can get it to 200 with the gear mentioned and a self buff).

I play a 50 bard. I put all of my points into charisma and would have it no other way. Charisma is hands down the most important stat for me the way I play. An okay bard uses mez to CC in groups, a great bard uses charm. In a group situation you will likely not be wearing your heavy charisma items and the extra charisma points help a lot. Also it depends on your play style. example I soloed from 28 - 50 charm kiting and did it quicker than anyone grouping by far..even with the -40 xp mod. Also some of the items mentioned in this quote can be expensive and not attainable by a first time character.

two thumbs up for all points into charisma.

[guineapig]

I play a 50 bard. I put all of my points into charisma and would have it no other way. Charisma is hands down the most important stat for me the way I play. An okay bard uses mez to CC in groups, a great bard uses charm. In a group situation you will likely not be wearing your heavy charisma items and the extra charisma points help a lot. Also it depends on your play style. example I soloed from 28 - 50 charm kiting and did it quicker than anyone grouping by far..even with the -40 xp mod. Also some of the items mentioned in this quote can be expensive and not attainable by a first time character.

two thumbs up for all points into charisma.


Which is why I wrote: unless your only goal is to charm mobs through your career. I did try to keep charm-bards in mind.

You are correct that this is a very effective strategy and i will acquiesce to you in that regard. But it is still one of the easiest stats to boost via gear and is only used for 1 (maybe 2) song lines. Where as dex and stamina are important 100% of the time.

As far as the prince of the gear, you are also correct that the platinum items are in the 102-150p range to create, but gold and electrum charisma items are quite easy to come by.

I was simply trying to give him tips on a safe build for a first time bard.
The advanced bard version is nothing to sneeze at (but it might not be for everybody).

Sorry Nokio if our contradictory statements served more to confuse than to clarify. As you can see, there are many different ways to build/play a bard. I'm fairly certain whatever your base points go into, you will enjoy the class.

If it's any consolation, consider this:
The general consensus in Everquest is that, if you plan on leveling the character all the way to 50 (and eventually 60) and are planning to join a good guild and get raid loot, then your starting stats and race really won't matter at all.

[Auronnj]

Even with the loss of aoe ( i hate that ) kiting eq bards still represent one of the most unique classes an mmo has ever seen. They can seriously do almost anything. Yes they take damage like a ranger wearing plate ( poorly ) but you have so much utility as a bard once you start hitting the middle levels you can go do so many things other classes only dream about by yourself.

If your going to play a bard its really hard to min/max from the start because you never know what your group or your solo style will need in a given situation. I personally put points into cha because its a really cool idea for a stat in a game, just like how bards are a really cool idea for a class in a game.

[drplump]

At 200 CHA it stops being a negative check against CHA it is not longer factored into the equation. Above 200 it starts to additionally decrease chance of charm to break. I have talked to bards who say with 220 CHA their charm last max duration 90% of the time and they can use that to solo anything in Lguk. No other bard build lets you do that!

[Nokio]

:p

I really apreciate all this talk :D It's intructive and much apreciated!!

Well with all that is being said i guess i will go with my half elf bard and im going to put 15 point into cha and 10 point into dex

I guess with that ill have some more cha to be able to effectively charm and some more dex to have less fizzle and better song effect.

At lower level it might be a little bit harder but from what i understand, as I level and get some gear i should get pretty good. So that by the 30s and up it wont really matter anymore.

I hope i got this right or else i really didnt understand what you said ahah !

[guineapig]

:p

I really apreciate all this talk :D It's intructive and much apreciated!!

Well with all that is being said i guess i will go with my half elf bard and im going to put 15 point into cha and 10 point into dex

I guess with that ill have some more cha to be able to effectively charm and some more dex to have less fizzle and better song effect.

At lower level it might be a little bit harder but from what i understand, as I level and get some gear i should get pretty good. So that by the 30s and up it wont really matter anymore.

I hope i got this right or else i really didnt understand what you said ahah !

Send me a tell in game if you want some newbie dex/cha (or whatever) jewelry.