Necromancer Race Choice?

[madhatta317]

Hi all! I just recently rejoined the server and have been playing on my Bard, which is a fun toon I used to main on other emu servers, but sometimes I don't have the playtime to actively find and commit to a group (and I dont like the idea of swarming). (I'm also open to mage but haven't looked too much into it so feel free to argue that as well).

So i've decided to create a Necro on the side for solo play downtime. I've never played a cloth/pure caster before and the Necro sounds so much fun for both solo and grouping. Now i'm debating race.

Gnome sounds fun because Steamfont/Crush/Unrest are all accessible and being a good race I'd at least have access to alot of the main popular cities to bank/merch.

Dark Elf has always intrigued me and I feel like is the middle ground race, being evil but at least having access to Neriak on the main continent.

Now Iksar sounds like the best choice stat wise and honestly the one im leaning towards. From what I gather you can level self-contained on Kunark at least for 1-30 before moving on to grouping/soloing in old world. It looks like he has the best stats and regen too. My main question is how inconvenient is the huge faction hit to EVERY other city / is it easy to at least faction up some places or use some hiding techniques to merch/bank?

TL;DR: What are your opinions on the best race to play a necro for? Pros/Cons? I'm also open to rolling a mage so argue that over necro if you think it's the better class.

[rayngerdaynger]

I have heard that iksar are an adequate choice to roll for monk and necromancer.

[Daldaen]

Iksar hands down.

As a Necro you're already hated in most every area anyways. At level 20 you can click a Circlet of Shadows, instant invis, making traveling through cities extremely easy. You also have FD if you don't pay attention and break invis. You can bank with KoS bankers by scrolling into 3rd person and using walls to block line of sight while you right click on them.

Some vendors will start selling to you once you use skeleton illusion on this server also because it acts as a faction modifier.

Faction has never been an issue for my Iksar Necro. Almost every Necromancer guild that I'm aware of will talk and sell to your iksar Necro if you use Skeleton illusion (34 is first one).

The regen is huge, lets you lifetap less, stay at higher HP more and be more efficient overall. The main killer on Iksar is low INT. I have sort of okay gear on my Necro and I don't really break 200 INT. Now this usually isn't an issue since necros strength is mainly about regening back quickly. But there have definitely been some tougher fights like Halflings in PoM where I wish I had a deeper Mana pool. That being said, I would never ever trade my regen for that deeper mana pool.

[bloodmuffin]

Iksar.

/thread

[Thugnuts]

Iksar is master race for necro.

Mine was a gnome and I still had a good time.

[littlebobby3]

Iksar hands down.

Some vendors will start selling to you once you use skeleton illusion on this server also because it acts as a faction modifier.

I got really excited for lvl 34 for skeley illusion for this reason ... and no matter where i went it my faction never changed, so i just assumed they changed it and made it a non faction modifier. well unless you are a enchanter.

Pros for Ikky necro: REGEN hands down the best in game. if i didnt want to start over i would totally re-roll but i started playing before kunark was released here.

Cons for Ikky necro: Hated everywhere. but this is trivial once you get higher lvl and can invis. you will just have to make use of the greedy merchants.

[Ivory]

Gnome!!!! Looks like it is my job to defend the greatest race in Norrath!!!

1) ...gnomes are cute! You get +100 in style / awesome factor in groups as everyone awes at your gnomeness.

2) Gnomes have good faction a lot of places! Even if threateningly to some places (like wood elf village), getting up to dubious is SUPER easy. There aren't many places you are really that KOS to, and even banking in dark elf city is easy.

3) GNOME VISION!!!!! Being able to sit next to walls and see through them is pretty awesome for scouting areas. I actually use this a lot when soloing to check if a roamer is in the camp or not.

4) The gnome club! Gnomes help other gnomes!! There seems to be an unspoken bond between other gnome players. Ever get 2 gnomes in a group? People notice it! 2 humans they don't have a bond...but 2 gnomes? They look out for each other!

5) Tinkering!! You can make eye of zom tinker items! Summon an eye, use your lifetap on in :3 BOOM, instant mob to feed off of anywhere. You can make these for about 15pp, they have 5 charges, and weigh 0.1.....pretty good if you need to feed on something!!

6) Being small!!! You can get into the hole without a key! You can walk under things other people would have trouble with!! You can hide in an ogre!!!! Really, there are no limits to smallness!

7) Gnomes are awesome. Super awesome. The end.

8)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-36hmbjMFkY0/VcxkOdvFK_I/AAAAAAAAQ-c/dJSFBsvMXjI/s1600/gnome2Bdrinks.gif

[Daldaen]

Really though, once you're 60 and in Velious. You choose where you have vendors you can buy from.

Staying friendly in Thirgadin is really easy, especially on a Necro. Which has everything you will need.

[iruinedyourday]

I am a vanilla EQ dark elf lover for life but this guy convinced me that iksar is the true necro master race

http://imgur.com/R0qGYYu.gif

that said, DE still look way better... but after all, if you're going to wear that leather cap, who cares what race you pick.. that thing is terrible looking even on darkelves.

[thufir]

If you play anything other than an iksar you have concerns that go beyond effectiveness of play. Regen + lich is hard to beat. Not to say you couldn't play another race, but at that point you are doing so because you like the skin or some other race is "super awesome" or whatever.

The regen beats all other concerns for a necro. It's too good.

[Ivory]

The regen beats all other concerns for a necro. It's too good.

What does regen do? Slightly increase your efficiency over time right? Yea, it is neat. It might SLIGHTLY reduce your recover time (though really, as a necro, I find I am sitting on mana a lot and can easily lifetap more if I want to).

BUT, being able to see through walls can completely save you when pulling. Grabbing 3 in sol b means you might need to zone or lose a pet. But being able to check in the other room easily by looking through the walls? Priceless!!

I regularly check across the zone in areas I'm camping to see if it has respawned to save me from running around. Gnome vision is pretty powerful stuff!

Being able to look through walls whenever you want is a bigger advantage in the game than a slight increase in efficiency over a long period of time. Regen isn't that critical to a necro, they can heal themselves 100 different ways.

[Pheer]

Iksar is the most efficient, if you pick anything other than iksar then you better be very fond of the race or youll probably end up having regrets later

[Lictor]

Gnomes look the best, and looking cool is obviously priority number one.

[thufir]

What does regen do? Slightly increase your efficiency over time right? Yea, it is neat. It might SLIGHTLY reduce your recover time (though really, as a necro, I find I am sitting on mana a lot and can easily lifetap more if I want to).

BUT, being able to see through walls can completely save you when pulling. Grabbing 3 in sol b means you might need to zone or lose a pet. But being able to check in the other room easily by looking through the walls? Priceless!!

I regularly check across the zone in areas I'm camping to see if it has respawned to save me from running around. Gnome vision is pretty powerful stuff!

Being able to look through walls whenever you want is a bigger advantage in the game than a slight increase in efficiency over a long period of time. Regen isn't that critical to a necro, they can heal themselves 100 different ways.

I assume you've read this: http://wiki.project1999.com/Sesserdrix's_All_in_One_Necromancer_Strategy_Guide

Talk with that guy, man. He makes arguments that are pretty compelling. Also, numbers.

[xKoopa]

What does regen do? Slightly increase your efficiency over time right? Yea, it is neat. It might SLIGHTLY reduce your recover time (though really, as a necro, I find I am sitting on mana a lot and can easily lifetap more if I want to).

BUT, being able to see through walls can completely save you when pulling. Grabbing 3 in sol b means you might need to zone or lose a pet. But being able to check in the other room easily by looking through the walls? Priceless!!

I regularly check across the zone in areas I'm camping to see if it has respawned to save me from running around. Gnome vision is pretty powerful stuff!

Being able to look through walls whenever you want is a bigger advantage in the game than a slight increase in efficiency over a long period of time. Regen isn't that critical to a necro, they can heal themselves 100 different ways.

Iksar Regen
Level 01-19: 4 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 20-49: 6 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 50: 8 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 51-55: 12 sitting, 8 feigned, 6 standing
Level 56-59: 16 sitting, 12 feigned, 10 standing
Level 60: 18 sitting, 14 feigned, 12 standing

Non Iksar Regen
Level 01-19: 2 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 20-49: 3 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 50: 4 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 51-55: 5 sitting, 3 feigned, 2 standing
Level 56-59: 6 sitting, 4 feigned, 3 standing
Level 60: 7 sitting, 5 feigned, 4 standing

Those lvl 60 differences are pretty huge for a little regen

[jpetrick]

Iksar gets a free fungi at level 60. Banking isn't hard with invis and feign death. You will probably ruin your faction killing guards no matter what race you choose so don't worry about that.

[Zugsmash]

Iksar Regen
Level 01-19: 4 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 20-49: 6 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 50: 8 sitting, 2 feigned, 2 standing
Level 51-55: 12 sitting, 8 feigned, 6 standing
Level 56-59: 16 sitting, 12 feigned, 10 standing
Level 60: 18 sitting, 14 feigned, 12 standing

Non Iksar Regen
Level 01-19: 2 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 20-49: 3 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 50: 4 sitting, 1 feigned, 1 standing
Level 51-55: 5 sitting, 3 feigned, 2 standing
Level 56-59: 6 sitting, 4 feigned, 3 standing
Level 60: 7 sitting, 5 feigned, 4 standing

Those lvl 60 differences are pretty huge for a little regen


Iksar!

[Vexenu]

(I'm also open to mage but haven't looked too much into it so feel free to argue that as well).


I've got a high level Mage and Necro. The Necro is overall a much stronger and more versatile class, especially for soloing and farming in dungeons. Root, feign death, insta-invis and self-healing are incredible luxuries that the Mage does not have. I feel much more vulnerable and fragile on the Mage (because I am). In contrast, I can pretty much go anywhere on my Necro and feel safe and get stuff done.

That being said, for some reason the Mage is still very enjoyable and is very powerful in its own right. The Mage will unquestionably level faster than the Necro if you know what you're doing. With good mob selection, you can solo a Mage nonstop and kill each mob for the cost of 200 mana (a single fire pet) while you med. Compared to fear kiting with a Necro, where you're constantly having to recast snare and fear while dodging roaming mobs and trying to keep your pet from doing over 50% damage to the mob, the Mage leveling experienced is incredibly relaxed. You literally just summon a fire pet, pull a mob with your level 1 nuke, /pet attack and sit to med while the mob kills itself on your fire pet's DS. Reclaim the pet (and some mana) when the mob is under 10% and finish with a low level nuke. Tada - you just killed a blue mob in around a minute for 200 mana, while medding back at least half of that amount during the fight.

Necros and Mages are both very good in groups, with Mages probably being a little bit better in most situations while being much easier to play well (summon max level pet, keep it hasted and positioned well, keep DS on tank, spam your clicky nuke item, thats about it). Getting the most out of a Necro in a group requires a lot more work and almost constant activity, since it entails keeping your heal over time on the tank while dispelling the recourse effect from yourself. In addition you must also be pet attacking (possibly charming), providing primary or (likely) backup CC, lifetapping to keep your health up and throwing in occasional nukes or fast DoTs. The Mage can also duo extremely well 50+ with Clerics and Shaman, while the Necro has weaker pairings in this range (although perhaps offset by very good charming opportunities). Also it should be noted, the Mage epic is ridiculously good, and is easier to get with Velious out. The Necro epic is much weaker in comparison and is (I believe) still harder to get. A 60 epic Mage is a bigger asset than a 60 epic Necro.

Overall I would recommend the Necro if you want maximum power and versatility (especially solo), but are prepared for a more active playstyle (especially while grouping). I would recommend the Mage if you are a lazy player (no shame in that) and if you prefer grouping and duoing (especially 50+) but still want to retain strong solo ability.

[thufir]

Necros and Mages are both very good in groups, with Mages probably being a little bit better in most situations while being much easier to play well (summon max level pet, keep it hasted and positioned well, keep DS on tank, spam your clicky nuke item, thats about it). Getting the most out of a Necro in a group requires a lot more work and almost constant activity, since it entails keeping your heal over time on the tank while dispelling the recourse effect from yourself. In addition you must also be pet attacking (possibly charming), providing primary or (likely) backup CC, lifetapping to keep your health up and throwing in occasional nukes or fast DoTs.

I don't agree with this assessment. A properly played necro is absolutely amazing in a group. Yes, you are constantly active, but this is not a detriment to the group. You're active because you have a lot of things to do and you can do them constantly, thanks to lich.

I am not saying mages are bad, but I am a real convert to a well played group necro. You have an extremely versatile toolkit that is appropriate for almost any situation. Mages are much more one-sided - although, again, they are still strong, and imo underrated for groups, especially xp groups. And they are easier to play well.

Say this, perhaps: if you are getting a pug, the magician is more reliable, just because the class has obvious things to do that are done obviously. A necro is much harder to play to their maximum potential, but are incredibly useful when they are.

[SamwiseRed]

iksar unless you are a retard or RPer.

[Baler]

Iksar is the ONLY choice for necromancer. There is no reason good enough to pick any other race. Even Rping you're going to regret not picking iksar for the regen.

It's not pre-kunark anymore. Pick Iksar.

Do Not let people confuse you by saying things like "oh it just a slight advantage, it doesn't make a big difference at 60" That is bullshit it is a world of difference.

Want to look through walls? Call a shaman to shrink you, lord knows there is enough of those on the server now-a-days. And it lasts until you log or zone.
Better yet, but a Ant Potion and shrink in, indoor zones when ever you want to. Bam instantly nullified gnomes.

Pick Iksar for goodness sake. Now let's eat some cake.

[Teppler]

I've had this discussion a million times and I still don't see regen as being all that useful to a necro any where close to maxed out. It's a nice tool for a first toon, specifically levels 50-60 leveling wise.

[mjbcb0717]

Duh hands down barbarians make the best necro

[Bruno]

Would not change my necro to iksar if had the choice. I can't explain it, but I have certain classes I need to play with certain races. Makes the game more enjoyable for me. Would I take the regen? Yup lol.

[Troxx]

regarding the necromancer class: Iksar

... no other race make sense.

Period.

The only reason I haven't made a necromancer on this server yet (I love the class) is I don't want to play an iksar yet can't bring myself to create anything but.

[Baler]

I've had this discussion a million times and I still don't see regen as being all that useful to a necro any where close to maxed out. It's a nice tool for a first toon, specifically levels 50-60 leveling wise.

You're kidding right?

Anyone who believe what Teppler said take a look at these numbers...
http://wiki.project1999.com/Necromancer#Iksar_vs_Non-Iksar:_Pre-Lich

Yeah pretty wide margin on the difference.

At level 60 using http://wiki.project1999.com/Demi_Lich
You get: Increase Mana by 31 per tick
With the side effect being: Decrease hitpoints by 32 per tick
Non-Iksar Sitting(at 60): -25 per tick
Iksar Sitting(at 60): -14 per tick

Get the spell Regrowth on a iksar would mean that they're actually gaining +1 hp per tick while sitting. And the 31 mana per tick. That is pretty F'in beast.
Meanwhile a non-iksar with the spell regrowth on them would still be losing 10 hits per tick.
(This is all if that info on the wiki is accurate)

Just so people know Clarity line of spells don't stack with these necro mana regen forms. They'd be a mana powerhouse if that was possible.

[Teppler]

While racial regen has no negatives, it's benefits to a near maxed out to max outed necro are highly situational.

Keep in mind necro access to life taps both dd and overtime which work as low magic resist weapons. Let alone items that let them hp tap for free.

Most situations with necro won't have you needing that sustained hp over time. And in fact, if you're fighting stuff in bursts, dark elf or erudite stats might help you in terms of having a larger ammo clip with mana.

So as I said in my post, I've never found it all that convincing.

[Vexenu]

I don't agree with this assessment. A properly played necro is absolutely amazing in a group. Yes, you are constantly active, but this is not a detriment to the group. You're active because you have a lot of things to do and you can do them constantly, thanks to lich.

I am not saying mages are bad, but I am a real convert to a well played group necro. You have an extremely versatile toolkit that is appropriate for almost any situation. Mages are much more one-sided - although, again, they are still strong, and imo underrated for groups, especially xp groups. And they are easier to play well.

Say this, perhaps: if you are getting a pug, the magician is more reliable, just because the class has obvious things to do that are done obviously. A necro is much harder to play to their maximum potential, but are incredibly useful when they are.

We don't really disagree. Necros are better if you play them full throttle, but my point is that very few Necros I've encountered are willing or capable of doing so. People who want to group and mash buttons constantly like a Bard usually don't roll Necros in the first place. A Magician is very easy to play to its full potential in a group, however, so the result is that 9/10 times a group is probably better off with a Mage over a Necro, with the 1/10 being the exceptional Necro who is willing and able to take full advantage of all his tools.

[Raev]

Iksar is simply the best race for a Necromancer and there is no debate. The regen isn't game breaking, but its far better than +300 mana from higher intelligence. If you want to see through walls, burn a shrink potion.

Also, I agree with Vexenu: magician is one of the most underrated classes on the server. 2nd best DPS in XP groups (behind Enchanters and ahead of Rogues). Probably 3-4th best DPS on raids (behind Rogues, Bane Wizards, and Primal Monks but ahead of Rangers and Warriors). Malo is great. Damage shields are great. The epic pet is disgusting, and if we finally get Magi P'tasa fixed will be a lot more obtainable. Call of the Hero is unbelievable: you can pull mobs across the zone, skip trash, tank swap, save people from certain death, and split XP camps pretty well solo (with root nets). Fabumbus used to solo the hole and duo Juggernauts with Spitulski.

[Ivory]

This is so silly!! You are looking on the surface...but missing the greater deeper details of picking a class and game dynamics!!

Gnomes may not have your fancy pantsy regen....but gnomes do have something else even greater than gnome vision!!

You see, gnomes are powered by awesomeness and sunshine!! Because of that, they can inspire entire raids of people with gnome antics!!

Sure, an iksar is better at sitting down for an hour and being a mana battery for a raid. BUT a gnome can gnome during the raid!!! Making gnome conga lines!! Or doing other gnome things!!! Very important to keep moral of everyone high!! Way more important than a slight increase to efficiency in afk mana batterying.

Don't underestimate the hidden social aspects of the game!! Class choice and roleplaying (gnomes being one of the most awesome and best) is actually really strong.

[Crawdad]

There's already a very long thread in Casters about this.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200861

1) Gnomes feel inadequate.
2) Numbers are, apparently, worthless
3) All pro-iksar, real-world applications (Iksar FD+Lich vs Others FD+Lich) are dismissed and replaced with "But gnomes look through walls" or "30int is better for burst fights."

Anyone who tells you "regen doesn't matter" is misinforming you and has either never played a Necro or plays one poorly.

The only reason to not play Iksar is that you don't want to be an Iksar, which is fine. But at the end of the day we're all just spooky skeletons, trading Hp for Mana into DoTs, one tick at a time.

[Issar]

The only reason to not play Iksar is that you don't want to be an Iksar, which is fine. But at the end of the day we're all just spooky skeletons, trading Hp for Mana into DoTs, one tick at a time.

This. There is a reason why people pay 70k for negative stats and +regen. There is a reason people pay 15k for a stateless regen BP that only regen 5hp. No one pays 70k for just 30 int. For necro, there is no better race when comparing stats, bottom line. That being said, there's nothing wrong with playing the race you want to play.

[Bruno]

We don't really disagree. Necros are better if you play them full throttle, but my point is that very few Necros I've encountered are willing or capable of doing so. People who want to group and mash buttons constantly like a Bard usually don't roll Necros in the first place. A Magician is very easy to play to its full potential in a group, however, so the result is that 9/10 times a group is probably better off with a Mage over a Necro, with the 1/10 being the exceptional Necro who is willing and able to take full advantage of all his tools.

You're hanging out with the wrong crowd :D.

[Ivory]

Iksar necro are for cowards who play the game on easy mode!!

Yea, I said it! Gnomes are EQ hard mode for the true l337 players :D

[Llodd]

Well yeah, but then I wanted to play necro for easy mode to begin with; why would I make it harder by not picking Ikky ;)

[Uteunayr]

My opinion on this subject has been well documented in the Casters subforum version of this post, so I wont go into that again.

However, if you do go Iksar and you have issues finding merchants, I did add a section to my guide that is a list of each merchant I could find (or was told about and confirmed to work) that a necromancer can use to sell. All of these were tested with Iksar, so it should work for other races... Should.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Sesserdrix's_All_in_One_Necromancer_Strategy_Guide #Vendor_Locations

Hopefully that helps to curb the difficulty of Iksar racial faction.

If anyone else knows of any merchant that is a no-faction or friendly necro faction, let me know and I'll add it.

[Xaanka]

iksars suck, why would you want to be a lizard that gets -2 mana regen per second? makes no sense necromancers need mana.

[Issar]

iksars suck, why would you want to be a lizard that gets -2 mana regen per second? makes no sense necromancers need mana.

I feel like there's a joke that I'm missing in this.