Raid Compromise Proposal

[baue1446]

Instead of all this FTE/COTH/POOPSOCKING nonsense I have an idea. This will reduce stress on both guilds and there will be plenty of loot for everyone. Yes this will only involve the top 2 guild FA/Awakened but honestly if other guilds wanna compete with mobs thats fine. But I dont see any other guilds COTH / FTEing mobs so it doesn't matter. This would only be a gentleman's agreement

So my idea is this. We just split the raids into two categories. And every week we would switch off which guild does which category

NTOV (15 mobs)

Aaryonar
Cekenar
Dagarn the Destroyer
Eashen of the Sky
Ikatiar the Venom
Jorlleag
Lady Mirenilla
Lady Nevederia
Lord Feshlak
Lord Koi'Doken
Lord Kreizenn
Lord Vyemm
Sevalak
Vulak`Aerr
Zlexak

&

Everything else (15 mobs)

Klandicar
Sontalak
Zlandicar
Lord Yelinak
Statue of Rallos Zek
Avatar of War
Dain Frostreaver IV
King Tormax
Tunare
Dracoliche
Cazic Thule
Gozzrem
Lendiniara the Keeper
Telkorenar
Dozekar the Cursed


This would give each guild 15 mobs (yes the ones outside are a bit more contested and harder but so be it) I think its a great compromise and will work wonders for guild relations.

Let me know what you guys think.

[Fire Beetle]

http://i.imgur.com/1CqXEoh.gif

[Tirion]

You're missing the point entirely of raiding in Everquest. Everquest is an incredibly easy game, and killing raid mobs is fairly trivial after you've done it a couple times. The only thing that keeps it fun in the long run is competition. Killing raid mobs is stupid-easy unless you have the time constraints that competition brings, making you have to make fast imperfect decisions.

Your proposal is the equivalent of proposing that the top NBA teams all agree to just take turns letting each other win every other game. It takes all the game out of it.

Yes, EQ is flawed and competition brings a lot of bullshit, but without it the game is nothing.

[Daldaen]

I do enjoy the days of having a raid scheduled at 6:30PM and we would raid from then to about 10-11PM, kill some mobs and camp out. Was awesome.

[Nibblewitz]

This game is also about cooperation; that's why we actually have a community here.

[baue1446]

You're missing the point entirely of raiding in Everquest. Everquest is an incredibly easy game, and killing raid mobs is fairly trivial after you've done it a couple times. The only thing that keeps it fun in the long run is competition. Killing raid mobs is stupid-easy unless you have the time constraints that competition brings, making you have to make fast imperfect decisions.

Your proposal is the equivalent of proposing that the top NBA teams all agree to just take turns letting each other win every other game. It takes all the game out of it.

Yes, EQ is flawed and competition brings a lot of bullshit, but without it the game is nothing.

Im all for competition but there are ways to do it without stressing a VERY large portion of this games population out every week.

[slappytwotoes]

Why not rotate for 2 weeks and each guild takes an internal vote?

Worst case, you get a break and go back to CoTHQuest afterward.
Best case, you enjoy it and tweak things going forward.

[Swish]

This game is also about cooperation; that's why we actually have a community here.
__________________
Nibblewitz Fizzlebean <Bregan D`Aerth>

Want the token reminder about BDA taking a dump on the old Class R rotation now or later?

lol

Rotations don't work here, the past is proof.. someone is going to end it sooner or later.

[Sweettouch]

Lol why is draco,ct being in this dumb proposal? erry1 goes for them

[Colgate]

I do enjoy the days of having a raid scheduled at 6:30PM and we would raid from then to about 10-11PM, kill some mobs and camp out. Was awesome.

this is exactly how we operate on red

[Thulack]

You're missing the point entirely of raiding in Everquest. Everquest is an incredibly easy game, and killing raid mobs is fairly trivial after you've done it a couple times. The only thing that keeps it fun in the long run is competition. Killing raid mobs is stupid-easy unless you have the time constraints that competition brings, making you have to make fast imperfect decisions.

Your proposal is the equivalent of proposing that the top NBA teams all agree to just take turns letting each other win every other game. It takes all the game out of it.

Yes, EQ is flawed and competition brings a lot of bullshit, but without it the game is nothing.

I enjoyed EQ for 11 years without racing for a single mob :) and yes i raided for 9+ of them

[Tirion]

I enjoyed EQ for 11 years without racing for a single mob :) and yes i raided for 9+ of them

Because back then new unknown content was regularly being released, which people could explore and figure out. On a legacy server like this, the raid guilds know exactly how to beat everything, and without competition it's like clockwork.

[Man0warr]

Want the token reminder about BDA taking a dump on the old Class R rotation now or later?

lol

Rotations don't work here, the past is proof.. someone is going to end it sooner or later.

It worked for over a year just fine.

[Pokesan]

Want the token reminder about BDA taking a dump on the old Class R rotation now or later?

lol

Rotations don't work here, the past is proof.. someone is going to end it sooner or later.

Rotations work fine so long as you don't invite BDA to be part of them.

:)

[Argh]

The problem with the rotation was always Taken and Divinity, not BDA.

[Laugher]

As someone who thought the rotation was a good idea going in I was not surprised to see it go; I was surprised in fact that it had lasted as long as it did. At this point that fact leaves me with few options to push here on the subject except that it you'd like a change there's always:

http://i.imgur.com/8ege7ULm.png

[Man0warr]

The problem with the rotation was always Taken and Divinity, not BDA.

Yeah Anichek and Chest went to bat for the smaller guilds for most the rotation's life. It wasn't until some of the smaller guilds started to take advantage (not all of them)/plus that Nilbog/Rogean said there wouldn't be a class system for Velious, that it started to break down.

[xexbis0]

The problem with the rotation was always Taken and Divinity, not BDA.

I'm not going to be one of those people that blames BDA for the rotational downfall. They were simply the guild that finally pulled the trigger after going to bat for the little guys who just constantly wanted more more more without giving an inch in return. I don't blame them. At some point, you would at least hope that your efforts are appreciated by showing a little effort yourself to meet in the middle on issues.

The Main Issue
These mobs that spawned in off hour times eventually rotated into an FFA mob which would not move the ticker. Plenty of the rotational guilds had very specific time slots which they could kill these mobs, and some of these windows were particularly small. Taken and BDA specifically had to burn the midnight oil (granted this was well before where both guilds were later after the collapse in terms of strength) to play goalkeeper and ensure TMO and IB didn't come rolling in and smash the mob, resulting in the rotation not moving at all. The little guilds refused to move back spots as a result of their failure of not having the line move even when Taken/BDA/Divinity couldn't muster the 3am force on short notice not knowing the mob would end up needing the help. I'm sure you can see the frustration here. This automatically moved whichever guild to the back of the line. These 3 guilds were not enjoying the fun, stress-free life the rotation should have bought them. That's where the frustration truly was born.

Along Came Little Jimmy
More and more guilds kept popping up hoping to throw their name into the mix. Ideas were brought forth for barriers of entry to make it into the rotation. Some guilds QQd and swore to make lives harder claiming injustice if they didn't immediately get what they wanted, sometimes just plain sniping lesser mobs causing what should have been a relaxing track session due to having an X hour window to kill a mob into "we have to make sure we don't let them beat us to mobs". Again, no penalty in place to get outraced.

There's More? Of Course There Is
Guilds started allying to kill their class R mobs because they couldn't handle it on their own. THIS really was imo the final nail in the coffin. They refused to share joint spots on the rotation and rotate as a unit. After all, these guilds holding one spot couldn't even kill the raid mobs solo. At this point, BDA made the decision to say "fuck you guys, I've gone to bat for you over and over and over without seeing a thing given in return." Taken and Divinity were already fed the F up with all of it. BDA just signed off on "we've had enough of this crap going on a year already, tear it down." Plenty of time was given to the smaller guilds throughout the entire time period to come to a more equitable solution that didn't involve them gaming the rotation. No progress was ever close to being made.

Class R History Ladies n Gents

TL-DR - it's fun to say the big 3 were big meanies, but if you think the 2 class Cs would have had 1/8 the patience those guilds had you're loco. A year. That's how long they had to come up with better ideas, they wouldn't even take the barely change anything ones. The downfall of the R-otation was the little guilds calling the bigger guilds bluff that we wouldn't do anything about it.

[Whirled]

I do enjoy the days of having a raid scheduled at 6:30PM and we would raid from then to about 10-11PM, kill some mobs and camp out. Was awesome.

This game is also about cooperation; that's why we actually have a community here.

It worked for over a year just fine.

I'm not going to be one of those people that blames BDA for the rotational downfall. They were simply the guild that finally pulled the trigger after going to bat for the little guys who just constantly wanted more more more without giving an inch in return. I don't blame them. At some point, you would at least hope that your efforts are appreciated by showing a little effort yourself to meet in the middle on issues.

The Main Issue
These mobs that spawned in off hour times eventually rotated into an FFA mob which would not move the ticker. Plenty of the rotational guilds had very specific time slots which they could kill these mobs, and some of these windows were particularly small. Taken and BDA specifically had to burn the midnight oil (granted this was well before where both guilds were later after the collapse in terms of strength) to play goalkeeper and ensure TMO and IB didn't come rolling in and smash the mob, resulting in the rotation not moving at all. The little guilds refused to move back spots as a result of their failure of not having the line move even when Taken/BDA/Divinity couldn't muster the 3am force on short notice not knowing the mob would end up needing the help. I'm sure you can see the frustration here. This automatically moved whichever guild to the back of the line. These 3 guilds were not enjoying the fun, stress-free life the rotation should have bought them. That's where the frustration truly was born.

Along Came Little Jimmy
More and more guilds kept popping up hoping to throw their name into the mix. Ideas were brought forth for barriers of entry to make it into the rotation. Some guilds QQd and swore to make lives harder claiming injustice if they didn't immediately get what they wanted, sometimes just plain sniping lesser mobs causing what should have been a relaxing track session due to having an X hour window to kill a mob into "we have to make sure we don't let them beat us to mobs". Again, no penalty in place to get outraced.

There's More? Of Course There Is
Guilds started allying to kill their class R mobs because they couldn't handle it on their own. THIS really was imo the final nail in the coffin. They refused to share joint spots on the rotation and rotate as a unit. After all, these guilds holding one spot couldn't even kill the raid mobs solo. At this point, BDA made the decision to say "fuck you guys, I've gone to bat for you over and over and over without seeing a thing given in return." Taken and Divinity were already fed the F up with all of it. BDA just signed off on "we've had enough of this crap going on a year already, tear it down." Plenty of time was given to the smaller guilds throughout the entire time period to come to a more equitable solution that didn't involve them gaming the rotation. No progress was ever close to being made.

Class R History Ladies n Gents

TL-DR - it's fun to say the big 3 were big meanies, but if you think the 2 class Cs would have had 1/8 the patience those guilds had you're loco. A year. That's how long they had to come up with better ideas, they wouldn't even take the barely change anything ones. The downfall of the R-otation was the little guilds calling the bigger guilds bluff that we wouldn't do anything about it.

First off, I do not claim to be a know-it-all about EQ or raiding BUT there are LOTS of people playing this game that would enjoy to play this game, see content that they may not have done before & enjoy it. No lawyer-quest, no secret deals in the shadows & certainly not "18 hours a day/everyday". Suggesting EQ is like basket ball is apples to oranges. If you try to use that analogy than most of the players in your basketball game are not allowed to make 3 point shots. Which makes no sense but hey I'm no basket ball star either.

Coming to an agreement for all players to even have a fair shot is where the discussions should begin. Not how some certain guild or players can hold onto content for the longest or block as many as possible.

Lastly, being generous does not consist of wanting something in return. Disagree? Matthew 6:3 <= if you forgot*

I would be interested to know the average age of most players, because if it's as old as I THINK it is, then this place would be a great experiment for anyone doing psych degree work. I hope anyone reading this takes these words well & bares no hostility. This should be more of a chance to attempt to make things better as a community, as all would like to see things progress forward & not stagnate.
As many have said, be the change you wish to see.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Hey I know we should group the guilds into some sort of class system and divvy up the raid mobs that way

[arsenalpow]

I'm not going to be one of those people that blames BDA for the rotational downfall. They were simply the guild that finally pulled the trigger after going to bat for the little guys who just constantly wanted more more more without giving an inch in return. I don't blame them. At some point, you would at least hope that your efforts are appreciated by showing a little effort yourself to meet in the middle on issues.

The Main Issue
These mobs that spawned in off hour times eventually rotated into an FFA mob which would not move the ticker. Plenty of the rotational guilds had very specific time slots which they could kill these mobs, and some of these windows were particularly small. Taken and BDA specifically had to burn the midnight oil (granted this was well before where both guilds were later after the collapse in terms of strength) to play goalkeeper and ensure TMO and IB didn't come rolling in and smash the mob, resulting in the rotation not moving at all. The little guilds refused to move back spots as a result of their failure of not having the line move even when Taken/BDA/Divinity couldn't muster the 3am force on short notice not knowing the mob would end up needing the help. I'm sure you can see the frustration here. This automatically moved whichever guild to the back of the line. These 3 guilds were not enjoying the fun, stress-free life the rotation should have bought them. That's where the frustration truly was born.

Along Came Little Jimmy
More and more guilds kept popping up hoping to throw their name into the mix. Ideas were brought forth for barriers of entry to make it into the rotation. Some guilds QQd and swore to make lives harder claiming injustice if they didn't immediately get what they wanted, sometimes just plain sniping lesser mobs causing what should have been a relaxing track session due to having an X hour window to kill a mob into "we have to make sure we don't let them beat us to mobs". Again, no penalty in place to get outraced.

There's More? Of Course There Is
Guilds started allying to kill their class R mobs because they couldn't handle it on their own. THIS really was imo the final nail in the coffin. They refused to share joint spots on the rotation and rotate as a unit. After all, these guilds holding one spot couldn't even kill the raid mobs solo. At this point, BDA made the decision to say "fuck you guys, I've gone to bat for you over and over and over without seeing a thing given in return." Taken and Divinity were already fed the F up with all of it. BDA just signed off on "we've had enough of this crap going on a year already, tear it down." Plenty of time was given to the smaller guilds throughout the entire time period to come to a more equitable solution that didn't involve them gaming the rotation. No progress was ever close to being made.

Class R History Ladies n Gents

TL-DR - it's fun to say the big 3 were big meanies, but if you think the 2 class Cs would have had 1/8 the patience those guilds had you're loco. A year. That's how long they had to come up with better ideas, they wouldn't even take the barely change anything ones. The downfall of the R-otation was the little guilds calling the bigger guilds bluff that we wouldn't do anything about it.

hey look, an accurate representation of what actually happened with the class R rotation, a bit different from the forum narrative though of robble robble BDA.

[Erati]

robble robble BDA.

.

[Raev]

Serious question Chest, now that the rotation is far behind us. What did you guys really find so objectionable about The A-Team's soft-penalty proposal? Or did you hit adiabatic and stop reading?

[arsenalpow]

Serious question Chest, now that the rotation is far behind us. What did you guys really find so objectionable about The A-Team's soft-penalty proposal? Or did you hit adiabatic and stop reading?

I can't even remember what the major points of it were, care to remind me?

[jcr4990]

this is exactly how we operate on redI hear it's pretty easy to kill raid targets whenever u want when your server has 50-100 ppl at best playing outside of a few hours of primetime where it hits a whopping 150 and 90% of those numbers are under 1 guild tag or sub-50 alts/noobs.

I swear these dudes bragging about Red server raid pixels are the same kids that brag about their participation trophies after they get last place.

[Raev]

I can't even remember what the major points of it were, care to remind me?

basically whenever guilds needed help/were late they would move down a rotation spot (or more than one depending on the offense).

So for example if the rotation list was A-Team, BDA, Taken, Divinity, AG and A-Team needed help to kill Gorenaire at 5AM, BDA would get the next kill, and then after that the rotation would be Taken, Divinity, AG, BDA, A-Team. Briscoe put together some examples that showed pretty well that guilds that took care of business would move through the rotation much faster than guilds that did not.

[Tirion]

So Chest, given what happened with the Rotation, would you say that Lord Bob was right all along?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I propose a walk off

[Samoht]

basically whenever guilds needed help/were late they would move down a rotation spot (or more than one depending on the offense).

So for example if the rotation list was A-Team, BDA, Taken, Divinity, AG and A-Team needed help to kill Gorenaire at 5AM, BDA would get the next kill, and then after that the rotation would be Taken, Divinity, AG, BDA, A-Team. Briscoe put together some examples that showed pretty well that guilds that took care of business would move through the rotation much faster than guilds that did not.

So they cause a class R mob to move to FFA and then get a nearly immediate chance to cause it to happen again? Lol, noty. What a terrible proposal.

[Raev]

or more than one depending on the offense
The example was for a guild needed help during a dark hour kill. The penalties for letting Class C kill the target were actually quite draconian, it was like 4 rotation slots across all mobs or something.

[Samoht]

They should just find someone to trade positions with. And if both guilds participate in the kill, they both move back.

[Swish]

So the rotation collapses, the "new" class R is basically a rotation of BDA, Taken and (Divinity or CSG) per 3 spawns of each raid mob... and the server expected to swallow that as an explanation?

Sounds real cosy, and that's what it was. Keep writing the "good guy BDA" rhetoric though - unlikely there'll be another rotation for you to pull the strings of either way.

[Xaanka]

hahahahhahahahhahahaha having "raid classes" on your server. what does that even mean? literally never heard of that shit maybe you should think about playing on red where there aren't any dumb gay rules deciding who can engage what raid targets

[Nibblewitz]

Do you even know what engage means?

[Raev]

someone please look at me
This is all I see when I read these 'red is awesome' posts.

[Ravager]

So the rotation collapses, the "new" class R is basically a rotation of BDA, Taken and (Divinity or CSG) per 3 spawns of each raid mob... and the server expected to swallow that as an explanation?

Sounds real cosy, and that's what it was. Keep writing the "good guy BDA" rhetoric though - unlikely there'll be another rotation for you to pull the strings of either way.

BDA worked hard to keep the rotation going for a year, but you don't bother to notice that. BDA tried to keep the rotation alive after a year, but you don't bother to notice that either. You also fail to notice that after the rotation dissolved, the Class R rotation was working exactly the way Rogean scripted it.

But you never really cared about details anyway. They tend to get in the way of rhetoric.

[Legday]

I think ultimately that too many people in Awakened and FA enjoy the competition aspect of each cycle for this to actually happen, but it is a good idea.

[Daldaen]

I think ultimately that too many people in Awakened and FA enjoy the competition aspect of each cycle for this to actually happen, but it is a good idea.

Would love for Rogean to automate the sim repops and just get rid of the regular 7 day Windows with variance.

[Troxx]

So the rotation collapses, the "new" class R is basically a rotation of BDA, Taken and (Divinity or CSG) per 3 spawns of each raid mob... and the server expected to swallow that as an explanation?

Sounds real cosy, and that's what it was. Keep writing the "good guy BDA" rhetoric though - unlikely there'll be another rotation for you to pull the strings of either way.

I thought you retired or some shit ... yet here you are working on your 72nd thousandth post while still having a raging boner-hatred for BDA.

We get it: you still have BDA sand in your vagina.

Stuff a sock in it.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

I thought you retired or some shit ... yet here you are working on your 72nd thousandth post while still having a raging boner-hatred for BDA.

We get it: you still have BDA sand in your vagina.

Stuff a sock in it.

Thanks for ruining another thread, BDA.

[Cochonou]

maybe you should think about playing on red

hahahahhahahahhahahaha

[Star]

I hear it's pretty easy to kill raid targets whenever u want when your server has 50-100 ppl at best playing outside of a few hours of primetime where it hits a whopping 150 and 90% of those numbers are under 1 guild tag or sub-50 alts/noobs.

I swear these dudes bragging about Red server raid pixels are the same kids that brag about their participation trophies after they get last place.

Why exactly are blue pixels valued higher than red pixels?

[Swish]

BDA worked hard to keep the rotation going for a year, but you don't bother to notice that. BDA tried to keep the rotation alive after a year, but you don't bother to notice that either. You also fail to notice that after the rotation dissolved, the Class R rotation was working exactly the way Rogean scripted it.

But you never really cared about details anyway. They tend to get in the way of rhetoric.

How much work was it really though? Actual man hours involved once it was set up? Feel free to pluck those out of the air to suit your agenda here.

"Worked hard" til there were too many guilds at the table, then went for a pixel grab that saw them claim 1 in 3 of every Class R Kunark/planar raid target after trying to sneakily put Gorenaire as an entry test to the revised one.

No more rotations I think. Especially not run by crooks :o

[falkun]

Swish, stop spinning (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2209357&postcount=18) and read the thread.

[Papa]

Swish, stop posting (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222961) like you said you would.

ftfy

[Swish]

BDA guy says "stop spinning"... got any better jokes? ;)

[thufir]

BDA guy says "stop spinning"... got any better jokes? ;)

i do
a swish walked into forums one day and said "I'm retired"
a month later he's back

wait, i guess that wasn't very funny =(

[khysanth]

i do
a swish walked into forums one day and said "I'm retired"
a month later he's back

wait, i guess that wasn't very funny =(

Hey, a handful of people derive a lot of their self-worth from posting on these forums. Please don't shame.

You can tell who they are by their post counts, anger, and inability to contribute much beyond their canned spin that nobody believes anymore anyway.

[Ravager]

How much work was it really though? Actual man hours involved once it was set up? Feel free to pluck those out of the air to suit your agenda here.

"Worked hard" til there were too many guilds at the table, then went for a pixel grab that saw them claim 1 in 3 of every Class R Kunark/planar raid target after trying to sneakily put Gorenaire as an entry test to the revised one.

No more rotations I think. Especially not run by crooks :o

Why would I pluck numbers out of the air? If you want numbers, you can ask Anichek, BDA Officer and rotation negotiator, but I doubt he'd want to waste another minute on a dead rotation, especially trying to explain it to someone like you who doesn't really give a shit except to bash BDA with lies some more, for whatever reason you think you need to.

Of the two of us, I'm not the one with the agenda. I'm just pointing out your lies as they come up. Also, of the two of us, I have more than RnF knowledge (which happens to be 90% Swish lies) of what happened with the rotation.

Just go back to cat gifs Swish, that's about the only thing you're good for.

[Swish]

So BDA didn't get 1 in 3 of every Class R raid mob? That's not quite how I remember it.

Kill Trakanon, locked out for the next 2... there again for the 3rd one (and always there for the R/FFA ones of course). Rinse/repeat for all the other targets. Flushed the rotation for more pixel gains for your own members. Remember though, that's "community building" and "preparing the server for Velious, the BDA way". You can keep spinning convenient revisionist crap, but the forum archives are there.

Bottom line (beyond your nitpicking) is rotations are bad if they're run by players/guilds, and the staff can't really run it without all kinds of favoritism shouts from disgruntled people.



Posting in a thread full of angry BDA members is like....

http://i.imgur.com/X6txTEV.gif

http://i.imgur.com/9XZn2o2.gif

There you go Chest, new gimmick for you...can drop the dead duck Hulk Hogan thing ;)

[Man0warr]

BDA only got 1 in 3 Class R mobs after the player made rotation dissolved. Which was how Rogean envisioned Class R when he created it.

[Swish]

BDA only got 1 in 3 Class R mobs after the player made rotation dissolved.

That's the point I'm making, take a dump on the rotation and help yourselves to 1 in 3... under the guise of "preparing the smaller guilds for Velious" of course.

RIP Moonlight Crusaders - I'm sure a bunch of them app'ed to you afterwards and joined the pixel lines.

[Man0warr]

Nah, the small guilds taking advantage of alliances ended the rotation, not BDA.

Plus, Nilbog/Rogean said the Class system was ending in Velious.

[contemptor]

Swish how sad is your life that you couldn't even commit to stop posting

[Swish]

You'd all be lost without me.

[Ravager]

Posting in a thread full of angry BDA members is like...

Here's Swish's first post in a thread 8 posts deep that had nothing to do with BDA or the old Class R rotation:

Want the token reminder about BDA taking a dump on the old Class R rotation now or later?

lol

Rotations don't work here, the past is proof.. someone is going to end it sooner or later.

Ironically, in Swish's mind BDA are the angry ones with an agenda, except for the fact that it's always Swish who starts talking shit, and never stops.

Want the token reminder about me taking a dump on the P99 Forums now or later?

These forums were actually a nice place for 2 months. I think there may be a correlation.

[Llodd]

Swish, stop spinning (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2209357&postcount=18) and read the thread.

You honestly believe the entry to rotations were reasonable in any way whatsoever?

Whilst theres a grain of truth in that single post you linked, it's pretty misleading.

[falkun]

When you get in line at the grocery store, do you cut to the front/middle there as well? No, you wait, starting at the back, like everyone else had. There was no barrier to entry, you just had to wait your turn, like everyone else. If the line's too long, then put your items back on the shelf and go to another store (server).

BDA's (and Taken's and Divinity's) argument against the rotation was spelled out nicely in that thread. To keep with the grocery line analogy: the alliance guilds kept asking to have their place saved while the "big 3" had to do their grocery shopping at 2AM. Also, the alliance guilds would share their spots in line, so they went through it 2+ times for every time the "big 3" went through, albeit they had a "5 item limit" to purchase every time.

[Swish]

Ironically, in Swish's mind BDA are the angry ones with an agenda, except for the fact that it's always Swish who starts talking shit, and never stops.

Why would BDA be angry? The revised rotation worked so well for you :o

If anyone is angry, its always you when you post. Are you representative of the Bregan D'Erf community when you're breaking the code of conduct on here?

[Spyder73]

Why would BDA be angry? The revised rotation worked so well for you :o

If anyone is angry, its always you when you post. Are you representative of the Bregan D'Erf community when you're breaking the code of conduct on here?

I have sorely missed Swish quoting the BDA code of conduct. Welcome home angel

And to the matter of the rotation – It is well documented that Chest/BDA loot council is to blame for this. I am not sure how many time we need to rehash that BDA/Taken were pixel driven to the point that they decided to make their own alliance and push the rest of class R out of the equation. They were essentially were mad that AG and Asgard would alliance up to bolster our numbers for certain targets and it apparently ate you alive to the point of killing the system entirely.

Even if Rogean dissolved the rotation system come Velious, the players could have worked it out themselves and there is nothing a GM could do about it. The spirit of the system could have lived on, instead it was shat upon by guilds that shouldnt have even been in class R in the first place.

[Man0warr]

Eh? Asgard was in Class C at that point. It had nothing to do with you, you were a non-factor.

No, the rotation would not have worked without the Class system. It only worked because TMO/IB were forbidden from touching 1/3rd of the spawns - once that went away in Velious, the rotation can't work unless those top guilds decided to honor it. Maybe Rampage would have, but not Forsaken. Without server-backed rules and GM enforcement, nothing would have stopped a guild from wrecking the rotation.

[Erati]

What is the anniversary of the Rotation breaking up anyway - anyone know the official date of that infamous Draco with 90 people socking from 7 guilds?

( which btw Taken won that race wuwu )

[Llodd]

When you get in line at the grocery store, do you cut to the front/middle there as well? No, you wait, starting at the back, like everyone else had. There was no barrier to entry, you just had to wait your turn, like everyone else. If the line's too long, then put your items back on the shelf and go to another store (server).

BDA's (and Taken's and Divinity's) argument against the rotation was spelled out nicely in that thread. To keep with the grocery line analogy: the alliance guilds kept asking to have their place saved while the "big 3" had to do their grocery shopping at 2AM. Also, the alliance guilds would share their spots in line, so they went through it 2+ times for every time the "big 3" went through, albeit they had a "5 item limit" to purchase every time.

If this is in reply to what I wrote (good idea to quote) then I'm refering to the gateway mobs. If not who are you replying to? If you are then your analogy isn't relevant because you dont have to past some impossible test to get in the line in the first place.

[Xaanka]

Eh? Asgard was in Class C at that point. It had nothing to do with you, you were a non-factor.

No, the rotation would not have worked without the Class system. It only worked because TMO/IB were forbidden from touching 1/3rd of the spawns - once that went away in Velious, the rotation can't work unless those top guilds decided to honor it. Maybe Rampage would have, but not Forsaken. Without server-backed rules and GM enforcement, nothing would have stopped a guild from wrecking the rotation.

What is the anniversary of the Rotation breaking up anyway - anyone know the official date of that infamous Draco with 90 people socking from 7 guilds?

( which btw Taken won that race wuwu )

If this is in reply to what I wrote (good idea to quote) then I'm refering to the gateway mobs. If not who are you replying to? If you are then your analogy isn't relevant because you dont have to past some impossible test to get in the line in the first place.

blue server sounding real fun to play on