New ToV Racing Rules

[Fifield]

Put this in RnF because there are too many trolls and it'll get moved here anyways.

How was your thoughts on the racing? Did you like it? Hated it? Kinda curious what everyone is thinking about it.

I thought it was somewhat fun, was a huge time sink and doubt i'd want to sit there each week doing that, but can't deny that Vulak race rush. Watching us all get gibbed one by one while running for the golden trophy. I had a good laugh.

Pros:
Funner then cothing

Cons:
More resources then cothing
Coffins could get expensive but prob not a big con

At the end of the day regardless of cothing vs racing, I think the GM's are trying. This at least gives some new guilds a shot at an FTE and gives them some time to set up the pull, get their attempt(s) in. It may not be the best solution but it gives more guilds options and if more guilds have a chance at these mobs, I am happy.

Let me know what you think, and if im free that day to be racing along side you or against ya, GL and lets try to have some fun with it.

[Stormfists]

First!

[Troxx]

I just find the pixel lust some of you fucks have nauseating.

Coth vs racing ... Either way you've got a special breed of neckbeard who ruins the server for everyone else. You either force them to game like you (a neckbeard) or you monopolize all relevant content.

[quido]

Blue sucks. Blue raiding rules are ludicrous. Blue hardcore raiders are retarded. Get brains, morans.

[Legday]

Fifield confirmed good at racing.

[Gimp]

Any racing is fun, but there definitely should be an FTE runner cap for both ToV and Kael. That door was an absolute clusterfuck, especially when you throw in people wanting to ogre wall for the lulz

[Gimp]

Didn't take long for the red nerds to show up, how predictable.

[quido]

My opinion is more credible than yours. I am correct.

[Juevento]

Personally, I think racing is as stupid as cothing. The entire concept of fte to kill mobs drives people to deeper and deeper levels of depravity in search of the dopamine hot that comes with yellow text. KS groups aren't the answer either.

But if that's the world we have to live in, I just wish there was a cap of the number of folks per guild who were allowed to race. It was pretty bad on Tuesday with 150 neckbeards a hanging around waiting to run.

[xexbis0]

I enjoyed bind sighting you guys (well a monk from Awakened) on Vulak race. That was entertaining. The whole "class R" argument not getting an FTE is silly. There were racers and guilds there. It obviously brought people to the table that weren't already there. They obviously don't have the experience Awakened and Aftermath do. And Vulak popped super early in window. What's going to get fun is if Vulak goes under 3-4 hours next week. Will Awakened/Aftermath race for Dagarn if they know it's a solid 15-20 minute time sink? That's a huge gamble. I don't think they'd risk it for certain mobs for sure. So it may have to be a "stars align" situation for these other guilds, but Vulak's window sets up nicely for a little luck going a long way for these other guilds this Tuesday.

The "one FTE at a time" rule is more important than the CoTH or race rule. Racing does provide a greater time sink though for the larger guilds as you have to get your guys back up and running again. The combination is nice for Tiny Tim.

P.S. - Enough about the GD door already. That is one of the dumbest faux outrages I've seen on this server.

[Kodim]

I feel like racing limits you to Bard/Rogue/Monk and if you don't have access to those classes, you're out of luck.

Anyone could get on a mage and coth which helped out a lot when people needed replacements late at night.

[TMO so immersed]

I couldn't find the option for Detoxx being a full blown retard

[quido]

r u the one that's blown him?

[Cecily]

I feel like racing limits you to Bard/Rogue/Monk and if you don't have access to those classes, you're out of luck.

Anyone could get on a mage and coth which helped out a lot when people needed replacements late at night.

This server made rogues a primary dragon pulling class. Do I need to go on about why that's fucking retarded?

[Herp]

I just find it funny Aftermath is getting their way all as a result of training Europa+every1 else at the zone in of ToV.

[mrmop520]

The racing part is definitely fun! A mad dash through mobs that will mostly one-round people is exhilarating.. and definitely leaves room for skill to triumph (definitely some randomness though. The waiting blows as always, with these rules why not shorten windows!
The front door as the starting line blows... door opening / closing all the time and ogre walls... front of the steps is so much better and doesn't get FTErs AOE'd on entrance pulls!

[MaksimMazor]

Blue sucks. Blue raiding rules are ludicrous. Blue hardcore raiders are retarded. Get brains, morans.

Lol yup

[Swish]

Hooray for more rules, that should make the raid scene more fun.

Right?

[JurisDictum]

At the end of the day regardless of cothing vs racing, I think the GM's are trying. This at least gives some new guilds a shot at an FTE and gives them some time to set up the pull, get their attempt(s) in.
Too bad most the casual guild officers/leaders that showed to that summit aren't trying worth shit. It sounds like most of them came completely unprepared (besides the divinity leader).

Even if they wanted non-classic solutions that weren't on that table, wtf not at least take the opportunity to articulate what that non-classic idea is. It was mostly a bunch of bullshit vague statements about how fucked up people are for logging on late at night to do dragons...and somehow that needs to end and things need to be.... more fun for Chest?..

I guess I could expect this kind of crap from BDA. The only thing talked about at the meeting that would help casual guilds was the rotation divinity brought up. All these ideas about making rules more draconian...they only seem like good ideas to those who never dealt with this lawyering bullshit.
Hint: the classic wisdom is to be sure criminals get cought, not to make sure the punishment is severe...

[JurisDictum]

while I'm on a Raid summit rant,

Sirken -- who usually like -- gave the absolute shittiest argument I ever heard for why there is variance on this server. Went something like:

"Well at first there was a lot of variance and everyone agreed it was shit. So we reduced the variance. Things got better, but people continue to bitch about variance in its shorter form. We think its at a good medium."

WTF? Where was the part where anyone but the server staff ever thought variance was anything but shit. Here's an Idea:

Remove Variance

Quake the Servers

Watch as more guilds compete for targets!

To tie back into the original topic. I think footracing will work without variance but wont work with it. All it is doing right now is making things more annoying for Awakened/Aftermath.

[Gimp]

I'm ok with variance, because without it, we would see an absolute shitshow and shady shit like people leaving a second or two before it spawns and other dumb shit I don't wanna have a fraps war with.

I would absolutely love everything to be cut in half (at least) variance wise since everything is basically now a race scenario and requires so much more effort by all parties.

[Pokesan]

imo the most logical thing to do is change the rules to [ idea that clearly benefits my guild over others ]

it's so simple!

[khysanth]

Shorter variance is good for everyone

[Kodim]

The rules should change every other week to keep things fresh and dynamic.

[Heebo]

while I'm on a Raid summit rant,

Sirken -- who usually like -- gave the absolute shittiest argument I ever heard for why there is variance on this server. Went something like:

"Well at first there was a lot of variance and everyone agreed it was shit. So we reduced the variance. Things got better, but people continue to bitch about variance in its shorter form. We think its at a good medium."

WTF? Where was the part where anyone but the server staff ever thought variance was anything but shit. Here's an Idea:

Remove Variance

Quake the Servers

Watch as more guilds compete for targets!

To tie back into the original topic. I think footracing will work without variance but wont work with it. All it is doing right now is making things more annoying for Awakened/Aftermath.

lol. Found the guy who want here before variance

[Heebo]

lol. Found the guy who wasn't here before variance

[Swish]

The rules should change every other week to keep things fresh and dynamic.

[ArumTP]

*Casuals wanted it this way none bother showing up for tov. This was their best chance to show off what they can bring, shown to be weaklings, and had no business in the dialogue to have the staff change the terms of raiding in tov/kael.

*Casuals are self misbehaved that limiting runners will put them at a disadvantage, shock and awe as the doorway is blocked by A/A with legions of runners.

*Casuals no idea what constitutes a wipe. Wants now unlimited wipes, on raid targets. Despite never even trying once.

[Nibblewitz]

Casual players are killing the game that we play for fun. :(

[Sirban]

LOL rules

go back to odus ya damn erudites

[Oleris]

Well..... IDK how this helps the casuals. You are going from a small FTE team of ~5 when there aren't many windows to literally competing against 25+ people. If anything, allow cothing again and whomever gets FTE gets the 1 attempt/1wipe.

[Skew]

With all the extra chromosomes floating around in CSG leadership they could form their own FTE group.

[Swish]

With all the extra chromosomes floating around in CSG leadership they could form their own FTE group.

someone's mad

[Maner]

someone's mad

It's always fun when guilds with no experience in the zone demand changes to the rules and then don't even attempt to utilize those new rules. Not to mention the apparent stupidity in regards to not even understanding those rules and trying to push for even more accommodations to casualness. It's amazing some of these CSG people can even run a guild with how incompetent they seem in regards to comprehending what is written.


These new rules are basically the casual guilds asking to be put on welfare and receive food stamps. Put forth the effort everyone else does or don't complain when you don't get all the pixels you want.

[Swish]

It's always fun when guilds with no experience in the zone demand changes to the rules and then don't even attempt to utilize those new rules. Not to mention the apparent stupidity in regards to not even understanding those rules and trying to push for even more accommodations to casualness. It's amazing some of these CSG people can even run a guild with how incompetent they seem in regards to comprehending what is written.


These new rules are basically the casual guilds asking to be put on welfare and receive food stamps. Put forth the effort everyone else does or don't complain when you don't get all the pixels you want.

Which guild does your anon forum account represent?

[Sodors Finest Poster]

I think racing is kinda neato.

Reminds me of the annual Sodor tank engine races.

http://i.imgur.com/IBOgOKu.jpg

[Maner]

Which guild does your anon forum account represent?

Anon? This is actually my main account, if you actually played you may see a similarity between the account name and the names of my characters.

[FatMice]

Anon? This is actually my main account, if you actually played you may see a similarity between the account name and the names of my characters.

This man is scum. Worst of the worst. The diabolical narcissistic nihilist.

[Swish]

Notice how he didn't answer the question. What a lowlife.

[Legday]

Posting here under an anon account so nobody knows who I am.

The fundamental difference between play styles is always going to be a problem in North ToV. Casuals don't want the hardcores to try so hard while the hardcores wonder why Casuals are trying to impose socialism on the raid scene. It doesn't matter what the rules are or ever become....the two sides are never going to agree on it.

[Maner]

Notice how he didn't answer the question. What a lowlife.

Your question was invalidated when you inferred this was an anon account. The plebs have been released now, RnF is fair game now sir

[Maner]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Pint View Post
You guys were given a full hour to prepare and execute your attempts by the staff and you're already asking for more
No one is asking for more here actually. Quite a few of us agree that the *original rule* made was very simple:

~~~~~~~~~~
All Temple of Veeshan raid targets as well as King Tormax / Statue, are now foot race FTEs from the zone lines. If your guild gets FTE on a target, then your guild will be given a 60minute grace period to engage and kill the mob, allowing them a fair and legitimate chance at that target. A guild may not FTE any other raid target until their FTE’d target is either Dead, or the 60 minutes is up.
~~~~~~~~

We are technically asking for less here. We don't like the amendments that were added after the fact. They took an extremely simple and basic concept and opened up the door for rule lawyering and confusion.

But until Sirken clarifies some of the amendments for us, it is what it is.

ToV is still a cluster. When Guild C accidentally trains Aftermath as you are fighting Mob X, we are saying that Aftermath should still be entitled to Mob X. However, with your own definition of the rule, Aftermath wiped and the mob is now FFA. You will lose mob X to guilds A, B, or D. It doesn't matter that you got trained by Guild C, you can petition the other guild later. It won't help you with Mob X loot, which will go legally to A B or D. You just now lost Mob X because you wiped, plain and simple. Mob X is now FFA.

Now -- if you had 60 minutes for Mob X -- you wouldn't even need to petition anyone. You could even laugh about getting trained instead of raging. Mob X is still yours. You just rezz up and do it again.


~Phiren
Azure Guard"

I mean look at the blatant stupidity here. the original rule regarding the run ups was 60min or 1 attempt, but apparently casual guilds don't have to keep up to speed on the raid rules, as it's obviously easier to misconstrue them and say you musunderstood later. What hardcore guild who currently farm ntov ever had unlimited wipes on things in order to learn? We had 1 attempt and if you wiped the other guild sniped the dragon as it paths back. Why should you get to try a dragon over and over again for an hour? Because that is 3-4 attempts if you aren't completely horrible. coming up with all these excuses as to why you don't want to battle the way TOV used to be is just excuses. It's called life, you get what you put in and the casual guilds obviously aren't willing to put forth the effort but still demand to get rewarded.

[Swish]

Your question was invalidated...

Under what rule and what subsection?

[Sodors Finest Poster]

OBJECTION!

[Gimp]

Under what rule and what subsection?

Rule 7, Article B, Section 1.2

Keep up.

[FatMice]

Swish why do you even care? The guy is not in BDA. Now take a deep breath.

[Swish]

Now the Aftermath guys are in defending the hardcore whiner... no getting away from the circlejerks on this server is there?

:o

[Skew]

someone's mad

After my fellow guildies stomped everyone on the last repop?

You've been mad since forever mate.

[FatMice]

Swish you should see the FTE Race Start line... Dead flaky skin, and excess neck hair that fell on the ground left by all the racers would make you race just to the exit pad.

[Maner]

Posting here under an anon account so nobody knows who I am.

The fundamental difference between play styles is always going to be a problem in North ToV. Casuals don't want the hardcores to try so hard while the hardcores wonder why Casuals are trying to impose socialism on the raid scene. It doesn't matter what the rules are or ever become....the two sides are never going to agree on it.

Now the Aftermath guys are in defending the hardcore whiner... no getting away from the circlejerks on this server is there?

:o

Should probably tell what guild I am in.

[FatMice]

The entitlement on blue shares a lot of simularities to #BlackLivesMatter lmao

Racist. Also similarities.

[FatMice]

What were we talking about? Oh yea. CoTH Race vs Races? We should be demanding more sim-repop and less variance.

[FatMice]

Blacklivesmatter at least has a goal. Occupy wasn't very organized; it's why they eventually fizzled.

[Pokesan]

you know someone is well-connected to reality when they compare pixelquest to social justice movements

[FatMice]

Oh look. Someone whose opinion is worthless.

[Pokesan]

sorry for interrupting.

please continue with your discussion of pixels vis a vis the state of racial relations in America.

[Cecily]

^ nice

[FatMice]

sorry for interrupting.

I can't believe I got you to apologize. First time in RnF history?

[Sodors Finest Poster]

The New Rotation Deal was a series of programs enacted by BDA between 1933 and 1938, and a few that came later. They included both laws passed by Loot Council as well as presidential executive orders during the term of President Chest Rockwell.

[FatMice]

The New Rotation Deal was a series of programs enacted by BDA between 1933 and 1938, and a few that came later. They included both laws passed by Loot Council as well as presidential executive orders during the term of President Chest Rockwell.

http://i.imgur.com/Lh9YDsh.jpg

[Pokesan]

http://i.imgur.com/FqcmzEN.jpg

[FatMice]

Boring Friday for all yea?

[Turp]

Shorter variance is good for everyone

[falkun]

P̶r̶e̶s̶i̶d̶e̶n̶t̶ Glorious Dear Leader, Chest Rockwell.

President's come and go, great persons born of heaven guide us forever.

[Freakish]

What happens when vulak pops, a guild gets fte and engages then another Dragon spawns and starts running into camp? Guild A is fighting.vulak, guild B and C race to fte second Dragon and one of them gets it. Then that Dragon still keeps running to go help vulak. Did the other guilds just train guild A? Who needs to be keeping that Dragon out of camp? If guild A wipes to vulak because of the second Dragon spawn is vulak now FFA?

Raid lawyering is fun.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

President's come and go, great persons born of heaven guide us forever.

Earning those loot council pixel points I see.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

What happens when vulak pops, a guild gets fte and engages then another Dragon spawns and starts running into camp? Guild A is fighting.vulak, guild B and C race to fte second Dragon and one of them gets it. Then that Dragon still keeps running to go help vulak. Did the other guilds just train guild A? Who needs to be keeping that Dragon out of camp? If guild A wipes to vulak because of the second Dragon spawn is vulak now FFA?

Raid lawyering is fun.

http://i.imgur.com/xOFiUiP.jpg

[ArumTP]

What happens when vulak pops, a guild gets fte and engages then another Dragon spawns and starts running into camp? Guild A is fighting.vulak, guild B and C race to fte second Dragon and one of them gets it. Then that Dragon still keeps running to go help vulak. Did the other guilds just train guild A? Who needs to be keeping that Dragon out of camp? If guild A wipes to vulak because of the second Dragon spawn is vulak now FFA?

Raid lawyering is fun.

It would have been great to get those types of scenarios ruled upon the raid summit, instead of crying about not not being given ntov loot.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

It would have been great to get those types of scenarios ruled upon the raid summit, instead of crying about not not being given ntov loot.

What we're dealing with here is a resource distribution problem.

[FatMice]

In Aftermath we don't even use numbers or letters in our CH Chain. Its more like a theme song about how many mobs we kill; see below.

[Thursday April 14 22:50:13 2016] Leegen says, Steve walks warily down the street.
[Thursday April 14 22:50:14 2016] Arum says, With the brim pulled way down low.
[Thursday April 14 22:50:15 2016] Doxx says, Ain't no sound but the sound of his feet.
[Thursday April 14 22:50:16 2016] Filipe says, Machine guns ready to go
[Thursday April 14 22:50:17 2016] Moosejaw says, Are you ready? Hey are you ready for this?
[Thursday April 14 22:50:18 2016] Nikkole says, Are you hanging on the edge of your seat?
[Thursday April 14 22:50:19 2016] Emkicl says, Out of the doorway the bullets rip
[Thursday April 14 22:50:20 2016] Cilarya says, To the sound of the beat
[Thursday April 14 22:50:21 2016] Treeborn says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:22 2016] Talaminy says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:23 2016] Leegen says, And another one gone, and another one gone
[Thursday April 14 22:50:24 2016] Arum says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:25 2016] Doxx says, Hey, I'm gonna get you too
[Thursday April 14 22:50:26 2016] Filipe says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:28 2016] Moosejaw says, How do you think I'm going to get along
[Thursday April 14 22:50:29 2016] Nikkole says, Without you, when you're gone
[Thursday April 14 22:50:30 2016] Emkicl says, You took me for everything that I had
[Thursday April 14 22:50:31 2016] Cilarya says, And kicked me out on my own
[Thursday April 14 22:50:32 2016] Treeborn says, Are you happy, are you satisfied?
[Thursday April 14 22:50:33 2016] Talaminy says, How long can you stand the heat
[Thursday April 14 22:50:34 2016] Leegen says, Out of the doorway the bullets rip
[Thursday April 14 22:50:35 2016] Arum says, To the sound of the beat
[Thursday April 14 22:50:36 2016] Doxx says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:37 2016] Filipe says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:38 2016] Moosejaw says, And another one gone, and another one gone
[Thursday April 14 22:50:39 2016] Nikkole says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:40 2016] Emkicl says, Hey, I'm gonna get you too
[Thursday April 14 22:50:41 2016] Cilarya says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:42 2016] Treeborn says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:43 2016] Talaminy says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:44 2016] Leegen says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:45 2016] Arum says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:46 2016] Doxx says, There are plenty of ways you can hurt a man
[Thursday April 14 22:50:47 2016] Filipe says, And bring him to the ground
[Thursday April 14 22:50:48 2016] Moosejaw says, You can beat him
[Thursday April 14 22:50:49 2016] Nikkole says, You can cheat him
[Thursday April 14 22:50:50 2016] Emkicl says, You can treat him bad and leave him
[Thursday April 14 22:50:51 2016] Cilarya says, When he's down
[Thursday April 14 22:50:52 2016] Treeborn says, But I'm ready, yes I'm ready for you
[Thursday April 14 22:50:53 2016] Talaminy says, I'm standing on my own two feet
[Thursday April 14 22:50:54 2016] Leegen says, Out of the doorway the bullets rip
[Thursday April 14 22:50:55 2016] Arum says, Repeating the sound of the beat
[Thursday April 14 22:50:56 2016] Doxx says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:57 2016] Filipe says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:58 2016] Moosejaw says, And another one gone, and another one gone
[Thursday April 14 22:50:59 2016] Nikkole says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:51:00 2016] Emkicl says, Hey, I'm gonna get you too
[Thursday April 14 22:51:01 2016] Cilarya says, Another one bites the dust

[Thursday April 14 22:51:02 2016] You have slain Avatar of War.

[Skew]

It would have been great to get those types of scenarios ruled upon the raid summit, instead of crying about not not being given ntov loot.

Its not about the pixels Arum. Not about the pixels.

[Legday]

What happens when vulak pops, a guild gets fte and engages then another Dragon spawns and starts running into camp? Guild A is fighting.vulak, guild B and C race to fte second Dragon and one of them gets it. Then that Dragon still keeps running to go help vulak. Did the other guilds just train guild A? Who needs to be keeping that Dragon out of camp? If guild A wipes to vulak because of the second Dragon spawn is vulak now FFA?

Raid lawyering is fun.

This is a great example of one of dozens of scenarios that there is no good answer to.

This is also a great example of why rules shouldn't be made by people who don't understand the mechanics after being lobbied by people who also don't understand the mechanics.

I wouldn't worry about it though. I'm not worried about it.

[Pokesan]

let the prisoners run the asylum what could go wrong

[Lojik]

Who actually came up with the race rules and pushed for their implementation?

[FatMice]

If you are referring to strickly Velious, it was Awakened. Rampage & Forsaken/Asgard had an agreement of 2 CoTH Mages per wing and once Awakened formed they toss that out the window and went 2 CoTH Mages per mob while wanting foot races to dragons.

[Detoxx]

Racing is #1. Could cap fters but not a huge deal, once these mobs spread out, that'll happen in non prime time hours anyways.

#movestartinglinetostairs2016

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

In Aftermath we don't even use numbers or letters in our CH Chain. Its more like a theme song about how many mobs we kill; see below.

[Thursday April 14 22:50:13 2016] Leegen says, Steve walks warily down the street.
[Thursday April 14 22:50:14 2016] Arum says, With the brim pulled way down low.
[Thursday April 14 22:50:15 2016] Doxx says, Ain't no sound but the sound of his feet.
[Thursday April 14 22:50:16 2016] Filipe says, Machine guns ready to go
[Thursday April 14 22:50:17 2016] Moosejaw says, Are you ready? Hey are you ready for this?
[Thursday April 14 22:50:18 2016] Nikkole says, Are you hanging on the edge of your seat?
[Thursday April 14 22:50:19 2016] Emkicl says, Out of the doorway the bullets rip
[Thursday April 14 22:50:20 2016] Cilarya says, To the sound of the beat
[Thursday April 14 22:50:21 2016] Treeborn says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:22 2016] Talaminy says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:23 2016] Leegen says, And another one gone, and another one gone
[Thursday April 14 22:50:24 2016] Arum says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:25 2016] Doxx says, Hey, I'm gonna get you too
[Thursday April 14 22:50:26 2016] Filipe says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:28 2016] Moosejaw says, How do you think I'm going to get along
[Thursday April 14 22:50:29 2016] Nikkole says, Without you, when you're gone
[Thursday April 14 22:50:30 2016] Emkicl says, You took me for everything that I had
[Thursday April 14 22:50:31 2016] Cilarya says, And kicked me out on my own
[Thursday April 14 22:50:32 2016] Treeborn says, Are you happy, are you satisfied?
[Thursday April 14 22:50:33 2016] Talaminy says, How long can you stand the heat
[Thursday April 14 22:50:34 2016] Leegen says, Out of the doorway the bullets rip
[Thursday April 14 22:50:35 2016] Arum says, To the sound of the beat
[Thursday April 14 22:50:36 2016] Doxx says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:37 2016] Filipe says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:38 2016] Moosejaw says, And another one gone, and another one gone
[Thursday April 14 22:50:39 2016] Nikkole says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:40 2016] Emkicl says, Hey, I'm gonna get you too
[Thursday April 14 22:50:41 2016] Cilarya says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:42 2016] Treeborn says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:43 2016] Talaminy says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:44 2016] Leegen says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:45 2016] Arum says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:46 2016] Doxx says, There are plenty of ways you can hurt a man
[Thursday April 14 22:50:47 2016] Filipe says, And bring him to the ground
[Thursday April 14 22:50:48 2016] Moosejaw says, You can beat him
[Thursday April 14 22:50:49 2016] Nikkole says, You can cheat him
[Thursday April 14 22:50:50 2016] Emkicl says, You can treat him bad and leave him
[Thursday April 14 22:50:51 2016] Cilarya says, When he's down
[Thursday April 14 22:50:52 2016] Treeborn says, But I'm ready, yes I'm ready for you
[Thursday April 14 22:50:53 2016] Talaminy says, I'm standing on my own two feet
[Thursday April 14 22:50:54 2016] Leegen says, Out of the doorway the bullets rip
[Thursday April 14 22:50:55 2016] Arum says, Repeating the sound of the beat
[Thursday April 14 22:50:56 2016] Doxx says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:57 2016] Filipe says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:50:58 2016] Moosejaw says, And another one gone, and another one gone
[Thursday April 14 22:50:59 2016] Nikkole says, Another one bites the dust
[Thursday April 14 22:51:00 2016] Emkicl says, Hey, I'm gonna get you too
[Thursday April 14 22:51:01 2016] Cilarya says, Another one bites the dust

[Thursday April 14 22:51:02 2016] You have slain Avatar of War.

+1
http://i.imgur.com/MqJZxnj.gif

[Swish]

What happens when vulak pops, a guild gets fte and engages then another Dragon spawns and starts running into camp? Guild A is fighting.vulak, guild B and C race to fte second Dragon and one of them gets it. Then that Dragon still keeps running to go help vulak. Did the other guilds just train guild A? Who needs to be keeping that Dragon out of camp? If guild A wipes to vulak because of the second Dragon spawn is vulak now FFA?

Raid lawyering is fun.

Enable pvp and let the last guild standing take both.

[Phantasm]

Go the fuck outside

[Swish]

<Bregan D'Aerth>

[Merekai]

It is also possible that us casual scum shit guilds might not have gone for certain mobs becuase of plans and junk...course we do the same exact thing every week and if we don't show to one mob after a rule change that means we'll never show ever and why do we make rules for these shits again?

Perma root the Dragons in ToV everyone will love it I promise!

Chev

[Kileras]

*Casuals wanted it this way none bother showing up for tov. This was their best chance to show off what they can bring, shown to be weaklings, and had no business in the dialogue to have the staff change the terms of raiding in tov/kael.

*Casuals are self misbehaved that limiting runners will put them at a disadvantage, shock and awe as the doorway is blocked by A/A with legions of runners.

*Casuals no idea what constitutes a wipe. Wants now unlimited wipes, on raid targets. Despite never even trying once.

Anonymous was there with 3 trackers and 3 runners for 8 hours. still pretty casual but, kinda sick of people saying we didn't show up.

[Swish]

The overimmersed just pushing an agenda, that's all. Bet they want fraps footage as evidence you were there lol.

[sirelothar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VJ01Y7RseI

[Skew]

Perma root the Dragons in ToV everyone will love it I promise!

Chev



Im afraid mate you havent thought that through. The server is too top-heavy to have 300 neckbeards trying to crawl to one static spawn. It just wont work. Its FTE or the highway im afraid.

[Freakish]

Anonymous was there with 3 trackers and 3 runners for 8 hours. still pretty casual but, kinda sick of people saying we didn't show up.

Maybe if you weren't Anonymous all the time there wouldn't be such confusion!

[Cecily]

Think that guild has a rule against /anon? Could you enforce it?

[Relbaic]

So did the race for Dain change with these new rules? I was unaware FTErs could be in front of Dain before he spawned.

The rulings us casuals miss out on.

[contemptor]

Anonymous was there with 3 trackers and 3 runners for 8 hours. still pretty casual but, kinda sick of people saying we didn't show up.
Only 24 man hours? Casuals!

[contemptor]

Only 24 man hours? Casuals!
I missed the tracker hours, but still!

[Fael]

Cecile such a troll.

[Relbaic]

Rulings? This is just another example of casual scum making assumptions without even putting forth an effort to read the raid rules before opening their mouth. Said was never involved with the run up rules. it's great when people like you prove everything people are claiming about the casual guilds correct.

Woosh

[EvilQuest]

Go ahead and pretend you aren't just another uninformed casual raider. Push for rules, that honestly haven't helped you in any way, because you're unwilling to put forth an effort yet feel entitlted to everything. Dain was never included in the run up rules, neither is Yelinak.

I understand it's rants and flames but being informed is still better than making yourself and your guild look like the casual scum everyone says BDA is.

Woosh

[Phantasm]

Uh Mr BillSmith,
You can't sit I'm front of Dain before he spawns and claim FTE. Use brain for good yo. That's all that he was pointing out. I know the zone repop message went out, but if you nerds didn't coth duck(which is like, dumb mk) you could have waited the 2-3 seconds and still won the pixel.

[bspa0700]

Anonymous was there with 3 trackers and 3 runners for 8 hours. still pretty casual but, kinda sick of people saying we didn't show up.

And I'm kinda sick of 6 people showing up with a rinky dink force thinking they deserve a seat at the table as equals.

I'm telling you this as someone who has sat in a guild like anonymous and tried to compete against IB/TMO/Forsaken/Rampage. You are flat out delusional if you think you have a chance against A/A. Those 6 people should just pick whichever of A/A they like better, and app it. Or don't. But if you don't, here is what it looks like:

* You'll spend a ton of hours trying to compete against 20+:1 odds.
* You won't have the support of your guild.
* Even if you do miraculously get a FTE, your guild won't be able to kill the mob.
* You'll have to carry the workload for your guild because the non-casuals are already in A/A, and you aren't going to find a guild full of hardcores just hanging around the EC tunnel.
* You'll burn out and quit.
* And you'll have done all of this for, AT BEST, 5 mobs between now and whenever that point in time is.

So like I said. You're better off just apping whichever of A/A is more appealing to you.

[Swish]

And I'm kinda sick of 6 people showing up with a rinky dink force thinking they deserve a seat at the table as equals.

I'm telling you this as someone who has sat in a guild like anonymous and tried to compete against IB/TMO/Forsaken/Rampage. You are flat out delusional if you think you have a chance against A/A. Those 6 people should just pick whichever of A/A they like better, and app it. Or don't. But if you don't, here is what it looks like:

* You'll spend a ton of hours trying to compete against 20+:1 odds.
* You won't have the support of your guild.
* Even if you do miraculously get a FTE, your guild won't be able to kill the mob.
* You'll have to carry the workload for your guild because the non-casuals are already in A/A, and you aren't going to find a guild full of hardcores just hanging around the EC tunnel.
* You'll burn out and quit.
* And you'll have done all of this for, AT BEST, 5 mobs between now and whenever that point in time is.

So like I said. You're better off just apping whichever of A/A is more appealing to you.

So zerging is the way to go? Only zerg guilds should be supported?

Should we make a rule that you must have at least 60/100/200 people at the encounter before being able to engage?

Happy zerging.

[Pokesan]

if you aren't a full blown crack addict smoking rocks all day everyday then you have no business commenting on what drugs you personally find enjoyable, you fucking casual noob

[Relbaic]

Then why refer to the race rule?

Woosh

[bspa0700]

So zerging is the way to go? Only zerg guilds should be supported?

Should we make a rule that you must have at least 60/100/200 people at the encounter before being able to engage?

Happy zerging.

That was your takeaway from my post? Mad dumb son.

[Ragnaros]

inc fael wal of text

[JurisDictum]

A real world analogy of how my p99 politics work would be one of those very wealthy people that vote for Bernie Sanders. I don't think the raid scene works for most people, and I see no real world reason why it shouldn't. Other than most people currently getting pixils want to maintain the exclusivity of them (see: Hoku making sure no one gets a shroud after him).

The server staff cannot prevent people from staying up till 3 am to batphone mobs. But it could put in a rotation system that allows casual guilds to get some pixils here and there.

Lets get real: very few people choose to play this game if they cannot advance their character(s). Even if that advancement is very slow, it can keep people playing a long time. Keep in mind, if this was live, casuals wouldn't have 2 level 60s and nothing to do. Things aren't working like they used to on live mostly because of this.

There are three possible courses of action:

1) Keep more or less the current system that can only support two hardcore guilds.

2) Guild rotation to give casuals a wack at a mob once a month (give a full day to try any mob they want -- fuck it). This will lower the pixils for the hardcore guilds, but it will grant limited access to pixils to those that simply can't keep up with that schedual all the time.

3)Release Luclin. Luclin -- love it or hate it -- would solve a huge amount of the problems with multiple 60s, lack of raid content for everyone, and the inevitable burn out that will occur if this server is forever locked in Velious.

[ArumTP]

The server staff cannot prevent people from staying up till 3 am to batphone mobs. But it could put in a rotation system that allows casual guilds to get some pixils here and there.

Lets get real: very few people choose to play this game if they cannot advance their character(s). Even if that advancement is very slow, it can keep people playing a long time. Keep in mind, if this was live, casuals wouldn't have 2 level 60s and nothing to do. Things aren't working like they used to on live mostly because of this.

There are three possible courses of action:

1) Keep more or less the current system that can only support two hardcore guilds.

2) Guild rotation to give casuals a wack at a mob once a month (give a full day to try any mob they want -- fuck it). This will lower the pixils for the hardcore guilds, but it will grant limited access to pixils to those that simply can't keep up with that schedual all the time.

3)Release Luclin. Luclin -- love it or hate it -- would solve a huge amount of the problems with multiple 60s, lack of raid content for everyone, and the inevitable burn out that will occur if this server is forever locked in Velious.

#1 staff will not create or enforce a rotation. Give it up.

#2 Variance and rotations in theory. Can and would a causal guild ever get their shit together to kill a_random_ntov_dragon at 4 am when those casuals are sleeping, or noontime when those casuals are at work? This game waits for no-one.

#3 casuals and the zones they are allowed to raid in as it comes to rotations. Class R casuals were not allowed into VP, the home of the BiS items. Logically Ntov should not be allowed in a C/R class system by virtue ntov is end zone of velious.

#4 classic during original launch casual guilds never saw any end game content it was monopolized by hardcore raid guilds. In this sense p99 is no different from the live experience. You didn't get to kill that stuff back then, and you certainly won't get to kill that stuff now.

[Jay F Kay]

#1 staff will not create or enforce a rotation. Give it up.

#2 Variance and rotations in theory. Can and would a causal guild ever get their shit together to kill a_random_ntov_dragon at 4 am when those casuals are sleeping, or noontime when those casuals are at work? This game waits for no-one.

#3 casuals and the zones they are allowed to raid in as it comes to rotations. Class R casuals were not allowed into VP, the home of the BiS items. Logically Ntov should not be allowed in a C/R class system by virtue ntov is end zone of velious.

#4 classic during original launch casual guilds never saw any end game content it was monopolized by hardcore raid guilds. In this sense p99 is no different from the live experience. You didn't get to kill that stuff back then, and you certainly won't get to kill that stuff now.

Jesus fucking christ dude, its 17 year old emulated elf simulator. The only thing you're entitled to for wasting your entire life on this shit is unemployment and loneliness.

[ArumTP]

Jesus fucking christ dude, its 17 year old emulated elf simulator. The only thing you're entitled to for wasting your entire life on this shit is unemployment and loneliness.

We're just playing the game, you demand special exemptions to accommodate you.

[Jay F Kay]

We're just playing the game, you demand special exemptions to accommodate you.

I've demanded nothing, I'm simply stating that the measures you take to acquire pixels are batshit crazy. Why don't you go try and tell a normal person about what you do here, and see if they think it's socially acceptable behavior.

[Cecily]

I see why this guy got elected... and shot.

[JurisDictum]

#1 staff will not create or enforce a rotation. Give it up.

#2 Variance and rotations in theory. Can and would a causal guild ever get their shit together to kill a_random_ntov_dragon at 4 am when those casuals are sleeping, or noontime when those casuals are at work? This game waits for no-one.

#3 casuals and the zones they are allowed to raid in as it comes to rotations. Class R casuals were not allowed into VP, the home of the BiS items. Logically Ntov should not be allowed in a C/R class system by virtue ntov is end zone of velious.

#4 classic during original launch casual guilds never saw any end game content it was monopolized by hardcore raid guilds. In this sense p99 is no different from the live experience. You didn't get to kill that stuff back then, and you certainly won't get to kill that stuff now.

Your points about rotation are misguided. First of all, ST is the end zone technically; but even if you don't include NToV, my argument still stands. That being said, I don't think its impossible to get a rotation with all targets. A lot of people said the class system that exited in Kunark would never exist as well....

Your also misunderstanding my Luclin comment. Its not that casual guilds were in the top Luclin zones, Its that they still had things to do in both Velious and lower-end Luclin. There is also the fact that there are a lot of AAs that need to be grinded, which gives people that either don't raid or don't raid all the time, something to do.

Asgard, was a causal guild (and still is in its current forum after the merg). So yes, I do think casual guilds can get it together enough to kill things here and there if you don't basically make it impossible.

People like me and you spend our time around people that raid a lot and have been here awhile. This causes most people to assume that half the people that play the server are like this or more. That's not the case. Its a small minority that plays this way and it only seems normal because were used to it. Your average MMO gamer -- forget average person -- hears about the competition on this server and think "that's fucking crazy...how could those people care so much?"

Some of this is because they overestimate what it takes to be on the loot train (hint there are people in vulak pixils that never track and put in less play time than half of BDA). But a lot of it is because people see servers like this is something fun for 30-40 year olds to do to relive their days of EQ. Not compete for world firsts like modern MMOs (which are much more difficult). But competing is the only option on this server for reasons that didn't exist on classic. The minute any of the current issues STARTED to arise in EQ Live....new servers and eventually instancing.

If you care about server health more than your personal pixil stash. You should frame your arguments in terms about how the overall server is improved or made worse by certain changes in question.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

...there are people in vulak pixils that never track and put in less play time than half of BDA...

unpossible

[JurisDictum]

unpossible

I swear to all you reading this. If you log in for batphones 50%-70% of the time, you'll be playing less than 15 hours a week and getting enough DKP to eventually get anything you want. You don't get to pick the hours though :(. That is the deal breaker for most people.

[Pokesan]

casuals can get dragon loot if they stop being casual

the system works

[arsenalpow]

casuals can get dragon loot if they stop being casual

the system works

i'm sure someone can horde dkp in aftermath for months and maybe win a bid on something cool, assuming there isn't some min threshold to bid on elite items

[JurisDictum]

i'm sure someone can horde dkp in aftermath for months and maybe win a bid on something cool, assuming there isn't some min threshold to bid on elite items

Not since Ramp left. Both Forsaken and Ramp had safeguards to make sure only trackers get the best items (Asgard never did). Keep in mind that didn't mean you had to be top tracker. Just track here and there to let everyone know your not a leech.

Neither guild can enforce a policy like this in a two guild system without losing membership to the other. Things could change but that's how their going now.

[Pokesan]

leech = doesn't shit in a sock staring at a spawnpoint for 6 hours at a time

ok

[JurisDictum]

leech = doesn't shit in a sock staring at a spawnpoint for 6 hours at a time

ok

No one wants to do it. So yea, letting everyone else do it is called "freeriding" and makes you a leech. Your getting the benefits of socking without contributing to socking.

[Pokesan]

you are mentally ill

[Cecily]

No one wants to do it. So yea, letting everyone else do it is called "freeriding" and makes you a leech. Your getting the benefits of socking without contributing to socking.

Of course no one wants to do it. It's not fun, or necessary. You guys trapped yourselves into thinking that there was no other option. "Freeriding" is a word you just made up. And somewhere along the way, the raider hivemind stopped appreciating people showing up to kill things. Fucking leeches think they can just log in at 5am and soak up DKP, lawl. You guys and everyone like you suck.

[JurisDictum]

Of course no one wants to do it. It's not fun, or necessary. You guys trapped yourselves into thinking that there was no other option. "Freeriding" is a word you just made up. And somewhere along the way, the raider hivemind stopped appreciating people showing up to kill things. Fucking leeches think they can just log in at 5am and soak up DKP, lawl. You guys and everyone like you suck.

Its not a word I made up..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_riding

Its the exact concept in question that was originally articulated by Adam Smith

You two options on p99:

1) don't get pixils

2) be in a guild that socks mobs

The fact that if everyone magically behaved differently, things would be different, is not much of an argument. People behave according to the systems that are put in place. I've railed against the system put in place by this server far more than either of you I might add. Especially when you both were respectively on your loot trains.

[Cecily]

Who besides you says it?

[JurisDictum]

Better link for "free rider problem": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem.

[Cecily]

No. I don't need definitions for your fucking Wall Street slang, you capitalist pig. Who. Besides you. Says it. Here?

[Pokesan]

do you know how ridiculous you are

[Pokesan]

you're quoting from wealth of nations to argue in favor of being a shitter in a video game

WHY

[Pokesan]

HOW DO YOU EXIST

[JurisDictum]

No. I don't need definitions for your fucking Wall Street slang, you capitalist pig. Who. Besides you. Says it. Here?

Its used in social sciences in general (particularly economics and political science) to talk about problems with "collective action." Or having people do whats best for everyone rather than whats best for themselves. This is a problem because their a situations where when everyone does whats best for themselves, things work worse for each individual overall.

To do whats best for myself in Aftermath, I should never track and only log into raids that take minimal time investment. If everyone did this however, Awakened would get everything. So the people that currently track in Aftermath have a "free rider problem." Where those that don't track are able to to get the rewards that come from tracking.

I guess it never occurred to me that most people never heard of the free rider problem.

[AzzarTheGod]

I've demanded nothing, I'm simply stating that the measures you take to acquire pixels are batshit crazy. Why don't you go try and tell a normal person about what you do here, and see if they think it's socially acceptable behavior.

Man JFK is droppin bombs on these nerds.

[Cecily]

Its used in social sciences in general (particularly economics and political science) to talk about problems with "collective action." Or having people do whats best for everyone rather than whats best for themselves. This is a problem because their a situations where when everyone does whats best for themselves, things work worse for each individual overall.

To do whats best for myself in Aftermath, I should never track and only log into raids that take minimal time investment. If everyone did this however, Awakened would get everything. So the people that currently track in Aftermath have a "free rider problem." Where those that don't track are able to to get the rewards that come from tracking.

I guess it never occurred to me that most people never heard of the free rider problem.

I have another definition for you to look up, you over-educated idiot. Jargon. Everyone understands what you mean by free ride. "The Free Rider Problem" might be more of an esoteric interest of business major tools in college, wearing their precious little suits while learning the best way to suck the blood out of our country.

You're thoughts on tracking and its relative importance to showing up are directly due to being led by the crazy fucks who ripped up TMO over the same issue. The real flaw is that your system doesn't consider tracking and attendance equal. When the hardcore trackers start thinking they are gods compared to lesser mortals, they do stupid things like gutting a top tier raid guild and taking all of it's members. And making new policies consistent their own play style.

You could track all you want, but if others don't show up it's a wasted effort. So the way around that is that EVERYONE tracks at the same time. And then you burn out your whole guild. Then Dottedup has to recruit the whole fucking EC tunnel again. It's absolute insanity and you idiots need a rotation for your own good before you start your own good, mental health, and person hygiene.

[Cecily]

I had alot of typos there, so substitute something appropriately hostile if you find an out of place word please.

[Detoxx]

I have another definition for you to look up, you over-educated idiot. Jargon. Everyone understands what you mean by free ride. "The Free Rider Problem" might be more of an esoteric interest of business major tools in college, wearing their precious little suits while learning the best way to suck the blood out of our country.

You're thoughts on tracking and its relative importance to showing up are directly due to being led by the crazy fucks who ripped up TMO over the same issue. The real flaw is that your system doesn't consider tracking and attendance equal. When the hardcore trackers start thinking they are gods compared to lesser mortals, they do stupid things like gutting a top tier raid guild and taking all of it's members. And making new policies consistent their own play style.

You could track all you want, but if others don't show up it's a wasted effort. So the way around that is that EVERYONE tracks at the same time. And then you burn out your whole guild. Then Dottedup has to recruit the whole fucking EC tunnel again. It's absolute insanity and you idiots need a rotation for your own good before you start your own good, mental health, and person hygiene.

So much hate, Cecily! Luckily a pure DKP system has eliminated this problem. Its going very well so far!

[Cecily]

I really need to go smoke. Hi Detoxx :)

[Cecily]

So much hate, Cecily! Luckily a pure DKP system has eliminated this problem. Its going very well so far!

Has it been eliminated though? Because you've got a guy from your guild bitching about non-trackers going on about his elevated opinion of himself because he tracks. That exactly like our old guild (the bad one, not the good one).

[JurisDictum]

I have another definition for you to look up, you over-educated idiot. Jargon. Everyone understands what you mean by free ride. "The Free Rider Problem" might be more of an esoteric interest of business major tools in college, wearing their precious little suits while learning the best way to suck the blood out of our country.

You're thoughts on tracking and its relative importance to showing up are directly due to being led by the crazy fucks who ripped up TMO over the same issue. The real flaw is that your system doesn't consider tracking and attendance equal. When the hardcore trackers start thinking they are gods compared to lesser mortals, they do stupid things like gutting a top tier raid guild and taking all of it's members. And making new policies consistent their own play style.

You could track all you want, but if others don't show up it's a wasted effort. So the way around that is that EVERYONE tracks at the same time. And then you burn out your whole guild. Then Dottedup has to recruit the whole fucking EC tunnel again. It's absolute insanity and you idiots need a rotation for your own good before you start your own good, mental health, and person hygiene.

1) you seem to think I am one of the first and foremost proponents of making this server for trackers, when I never really advocated for a more elitist server. I never supported the Forsaken loot council for example (the way the trackers were rewarded the best items).

2) Its a FACT that those who don't track directly benefit from those that do (assuming their in a tracking guild). Its not a subjective debate. Its a free rider problem.

3) Dude, the free problem is not exactly graduate level jargon. Most people that have taken a few social science classes at a local community college knows what it means.

4) This isn't TMO 1 guild situation. I was never in TMO so ill have to take your word for it. This is a situation where we have two guilds competing with each other on a more or less even playing field. We absolutely do need to track unless we want the other guild to take everything. As long as there is 1 sad motherfucker on the server willing to track (inevitable), there will be tracking.

[Detoxx]

Has it been eliminated though? Because you've got a guy from your guild bitching about non-trackers going on about his elevated opinion of himself because he tracks. That exactly like our old guild (the bad one, not the good one).

I'm not sure who he is myself but if you do decide to track, you earn more dkp to spend. Simple as that. There are no other benefits.

[Raev]

You can't kill anything without FTE/tracking teams, but you also can't kill anything without people showing up. Especially considering that Velious encounters last more than 30 seconds.

However, due to the insanity of variance, both raid guilds are forced to field massive zergs in prime time in order to have a decent force late night. This makes the marginal contribution of the people 'who just show up' nearly zero during prime times. The new raid rules exacerbate this, because with 1 hour to log in both Awakened and Aftermath field 100+ players for content that was designed for 50.

[Cecily]

That was what I was fighting for the entire time back then. Thank you for making it a reality.

[evilkorn]

Voting yes for Cecily, see ya soon :)

[Cecily]

1) you seem to think I am one of the first and foremost proponents of making this server for trackers, when I never really advocated for a more elitist server. I never supported the Forsaken loot council for example (the way the trackers were rewarded the best items).

2) Its a FACT that those who don't track directly benefit from those that do (assuming their in a tracking guild). Its not a subjective debate. Its a free rider problem.

3) Dude, the free problem is not exactly graduate level jargon. Most people that have taken a few social science classes at a local community college knows what it means.

4) This isn't TMO 1 guild situation. I was never in TMO so ill have to take your word for it. This is a situation where we have two guilds competing with each other on a more or less even playing field. We absolutely do need to track unless we want the other guild to take everything. As long as there is 1 sad motherfucker on the server willing to track (inevitable), there will be tracking.

1. You took a stance that favors trackers over raiders. I feel that stance is stupid. To be a raiding guild you need to have people to track and people to kill. Failure to track means loss of mobs and encourages more people to track. Favoring the trackers in any way beyond allowing them accumulate DKP or the equivalent faster is good recipe for civil war. This echoes a very old and heated issue within TMO since we were disbanded. Worsened by the old Forceful Entry people who were used to crazy, chaotic, democratic debate over every conceivable issue including this.

2. It's a fact that anyone who logs on to help kill what you tracked is contributing and you should appreciate them for it. No one should feel like a dead beat, be looked down upon, or otherwise scorned for being unable or unwilling to participate in one facet of raiding. Yet I saw this happen so often and I absolutely despise anyone who would treat their guildies that way. If your guild ever makes you feel like the only way to contribute is to track constantly, leave. Trust me. Just leave.

3. No, your meaning was apparent immediately. I was simply making fun of your phrasing and you helped me understand with the most pretentious definition imaginable. How you meant it was jargon. I feel you should express yourself to a general audience in the plainest way possible. Otherwise you are being a pretentious asshole assuming a baseline level of education and that the things you know are universally understood by everyone. GOSH... IT'S ONLY 200 LEVEL ECONOMICS.

4. Oh a TWO guild situation. Well I'm from TMO so I wouldn't know anything about them fighting VD, BDA, FE, IB, or Rampage at various times. Disregard everything I said.

[JurisDictum]

1. You took a stance that favors trackers over raiders. I feel that stance is stupid. To be a raiding guild you need to have people to track and people to kill. Failure to track means loss of mobs and encourages more people to track. Favoring the trackers in any way beyond allowing them accumulate DKP or the equivalent faster is good recipe for civil war. This echoes a very old and heated issue within TMO since we were disbanded. Worsened by the old Forceful Entry people who were used to crazy, chaotic, democratic debate over every conceivable issue including this.


I never advocated for trackers to get loot counseled items. I merely pointed out why they were loot counseled items. It was Forsaken's way of combating the free rider problem. If you want a Gharn's Rock of Smashing you would need to track. Aftermath doesn't have this system now, which everyone agrees is an improvement. There is still a free rider problem.

I made a narrow point that there is a free rider problem, you are still in denial about this. You think that players that log into batphones are just as useful as those who will waste hours of their time tracking mobs. It just isn't the case. One activity is harder to find players willing to do, even when compensated with DKP. They are objectively less valuable to the organization. Both the competitive guilds on this server have more than a critical mass to down any mob in Velious. The valuable players are those that are willing to track and those that are good at FTE. They give more to the organization than those that just log in for batphones.

You presume too much. That because I observe this reality I want to create a guild that gives loot priority to trackers. I don't believe in giving the top trackers huge amounts of bonus DKP or loot preference because they just burn out and leave everyone high and dry.

[zanderklocke]

Voting yes for Cecily, see ya soon :)

What does this mean?!

[Cecily]

The valuable players are those that are willing to track and those that are good at FTE. They give more to the organization than those that just log in for batphones.

This. This fucking attitude right there. No are they not. They are people putting in extra effort who get extra compensation. If you consider one type of person valuable, it follows that the rest aren't. To have that sentiment widespread in a guild will only serve to breed contempt. And boy that's been fun to listen to. With that being said, I honestly don't care how you wanna internally destroy your guild anymore.

[JurisDictum]

Look man, all I'm saying is that you are casual trash, and all these grabby casuals need to recognize my superiority as a tracker. I am entitled to first pick of all pixils, and the rest of you are just lucky to be on the ride.

Rather than having contempt for me. You should be thinking of how to emulate me. Don't try to tear me down, try to make something of yourselves. The problem is this new generation of casuals that thinks they deserve some of my pixils. They want to breed a culture of dependency where they sit on there ass and let me do the tracking and get almost as many items as me.

We need to encourage casuals to take personal responsibility. Maybe if they do, they could someday become trackers -- like myself. But any handouts until then will just encourage this culture of dependency where we award the takers for not tracking.

[zanderklocke]

Look man, all I'm saying is that you are casual trash, and all these grabby casuals need to recognize my superiority as a tracker. I am entitled to first pick of all pixils, and the rest of you are just lucky to be on the ride.

Rather than having contempt for me. You should be thinking of how to emulate me. Don't try to tear me down, try to make something of yourselves. The problem is this new generation of casuals that thinks they deserve some of my pixils. They want to breed a culture of dependency where they sit on there ass and let me do the tracking and get almost as many items as me.

We need to encourage casuals to take personal responsibility. Maybe if they do, they could someday become trackers -- like myself.

This is the funniest fucking thing I have read on these forums in the past month or so.

Is this guy actually serious and proud of himself for tracking, or is this satire?

[JurisDictum]

This is the funniest fucking thing I have read on these forums in the past month or so.

Is this guy actually serious and proud of himself for tracking, or is this satire?

Anyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Even Cecily can come back on her shit geared rogue (I think) and get back on track.

[Pokesan]

libertarian parody got me rustled hard in this thread.

nice posts. nice!

[Blitzers]

Posting here under an anon account so nobody knows who I am.

The fundamental difference between play styles is always going to be a problem in North ToV. Casuals don't want the hardcores to try so hard while the hardcores wonder why Casuals are trying to impose socialism on the raid scene. It doesn't matter what the rules are or ever become....the two sides are never going to agree on it.

This man is Godly.

But Bernie said he's gonna break up the Big Guilds and redistribute the Pixels to the 99%ers. We're entitled to PIXELS!!!

[JurisDictum]

Bernie is trying to destroy p99. If we don't funnel pixils into the best trackers -- the server will seek to function and no one will figure out how to get any pixils. Trackers like myself understand how pixils are obtained, and it isn't by Sirken enforcing a guild rotation between casual and hardcore guilds.

[Cecily]

Anyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Even Cecily can come back on her shit geared rogue (I think) and get back on track.

I'll admit it is tempting to throw another year of my life away to get gear that'll make me 10% more efficient at getting other people gear. Till then I'll just click my sow katana with tears in my eyes and wish I was doing something with my virtual life.

[JurisDictum]

I'll admit it is tempting to throw another year of my life away to get gear that'll make me 10% more efficient at getting other people gear. Till then I'll just click my sow katana with tears in my eyes and wish I was doing something with my virtual life.

PLEASE join my guild.:o

[Blitzers]

I've demanded nothing, I'm simply stating that the measures you take to acquire pixels are batshit crazy. Why don't you go try and tell a normal person about what you do here, and see if they think it's socially acceptable behavior.

^ he does have a point, you should see the look on my wife's face when I unleash my Fleshripper. I'm so glad she hasn't finished that wurmslayer quest. Lol

[Cecily]

PLEASE join my guild.:o

Offer me money. Power, too, promise me that.

[Cecily]

Offer me anything I ask for.

[Mistle]

Anything you want.

[Cecily]

I WANT MY FATHER BACK, YOU SON OF A BITCH!
http://i.imgur.com/71l9kns.png

[Troubled]

This is the funniest fucking thing I have read on these forums in the past month or so.

Is this guy actually serious and proud of himself for tracking, or is this satire?

It has to be satire, and it was pretty good.

[xexbis0]

This. This fucking attitude right there. No are they not. They are people putting in extra effort who get extra compensation. If you consider one type of person valuable, it follows that the rest aren't. To have that sentiment widespread in a guild will only serve to breed contempt. And boy that's been fun to listen to. With that being said, I honestly don't care how you wanna internally destroy your guild anymore.

You dumb son. Especially in the CoTH era, someone willing to pay attention and do their job for hours on end tracking is infinitely more valuable than those that don't. Why? Because there's only a select handful on the server crazy enough to put in 20-30 hours every ToV cycle. Without their respectivecrazies, both AM and AW would have trouble competing vs the others crazies and fielding the tracking manpower. You are assuming the compensation is always equal to the effort and it's almost impossible to do with variance and accounting for failure.

The overinflated egos of the class C leadership havent been able to figure out a solution to this problem yet. It's the same Nalkens, sweenis, Fifields, bruizes, faums, etc doing this crap every week. Not burning out those hardcores without them getting pissed at the casuals for putting in no tracking effort is always a work in progress.

Zanderr I'm pretty sure that dude wasn't joking if you read his other crap.

And since this is RNF, gratz Awakened on having so many ST keys they can key old Taken clerics with lifetime 13% RA and 2500 total earned dkp. Well ear..well deser...well something Jameus.

[Cecily]

You dumb son. Especially in the CoTH era, someone willing to pay attention and do their job for hours on end tracking is infinitely more valuable than those that don't. Why? Because there's only a select handful on the server crazy enough to put in 20-30 hours every ToV cycle. Without their respectivecrazies, both AM and AW would have trouble competing vs the others crazies and fielding the tracking manpower. You are assuming the compensation is always equal to the effort and it's almost impossible to do with variance and accounting for failure.

The overinflated egos of the class C leadership havent been able to figure out a solution to this problem yet. It's the same Nalkens, sweenis, Fifields, bruizes, faums, etc doing this crap every week. Not burning out those hardcores without them getting pissed at the casuals for putting in no tracking effort is always a work in progress.

I'm an idealist. How things ought to be in my mind versus reality aren't necessarily going to match up. I'm only anti-tracking because I've witnessed its evolution over the years into the disgusting state of affairs we have now. In the game within a game we play, tracking, FTE, frapsquest, CoTH ducking, etc, Everquest got lost somewhere.

I'd like to see a server that had guilds with membership caps so each individual actually contribute something by attending raids. The sheer number of people needed to keep the 24/7 machine fed minimizes an individual's importance. So naturally, your respective "crazies" are put on a pedestal. Those are people who probably enjoy the sick meta game, are good at it, and would probably not like P99 anymore if the game changed.

The game needs to change though. If TMO taught me anything, it's that EQ without competition is pretty fun. More competition means more escalation means more drastic measures means more negativity to secure that all important FTE. Those things bleed the fun out of the game that was originally about killing dragons for fun's sake.

The leaders of these guilds need to sudden realize that no matter what they do, short of a Pyrrhic victory every single spawn, they aren't going to win. If the raid scene scaled back on our uhh competition and revolved more around enjoying the game, like with a rotation... this would be a healthier server. But I have doubts about our FTE heroes ever allowing that to happen. They aren't martyrs. They enjoy it.

[evilkorn]

What does this mean?!

What I was talking about is I would put a yes vote on Cecily's app once I see it.

[Troubled]

And since this is RNF, gratz Awakened on having so many ST keys they can key old Taken clerics with lifetime 13% RA and 2500 total earned dkp. Well ear..well deser...well something Jameus.

What's 13%? Only 45 hours tracked this week?

[JurisDictum]

I wasn't joking until the post I called Cecily "casual trash." I have to admit though, I probably shouldn't have used the word "leech" to describe people that never track. But there is a reality where they put in less effort and get similar rewards. Maybe that's ok. Its not like no one appreciates trackers for what they do for the guild. As far as I can tell, there is no serious enmity.

[khanable]

Cecily knows what's up

go outside ya fuckin' nerds

poopsocking dragons was so 2009-2015

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

This thread is a good view into the mmo reality that made designers have universally moved from contested to instanced content.

But I would argue it is not the players' fault. It is the designers and devs and gm's. Unless limiting rules are put in place, any game, any server, will develop a high end guild or two, that goes all out, and can own the contested content. This is not the players' fault at all. it is the fault of the people who run the game, and refuse to implement a rule set that spreads out how the end game can work.

The end result is the same everywhere: the population thins out, as it becomes clear the end game is an OCD festival.

The only solution is limiting rules on contested content. You may not like that, but that is the fact. Without limiting rules, you end up with constantly repeating versions of Neckbeards Gone Wild, and the server suffers as more people say no thanks.

Those are the facts, and they are undisputed.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I'll give an example of a limiting rule that worked decently in eq2 contested. Any guild that has not yet killed an encounter, if they show up in force and are present at spawn, they get 10 minutes (adjust as needed) to make an attempt. If they fail, mob is open.

This was a good rule, because it meant *any* guild could decide they want a shot, and they would get a shot. If they failed on first attempt, they lost mob and better luck next time.

It at least diversified the raid scene.

[JurisDictum]

I'll give an example of a limiting rule that worked decently in eq2 contested. Any guild that has not yet killed an encounter, if they show up in force and are present at spawn, they get 10 minutes (adjust as needed) to make an attempt. If they fail, mob is open.

This was a good rule, because it meant *any* guild could decide they want a shot, and they would get a shot. If they failed on first attempt, they lost mob and better luck next time.

It at least diversified the raid scene.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean; each guild only get one target? Or each guild rotates targets? Or is it FFA and each guild can only engage one target at once?

[xexbis0]

I'm an idealist. How things ought to be in my mind versus reality aren't necessarily going to match up. I'm only anti-tracking because I've witnessed its evolution over the years into the disgusting state of affairs we have now. In the game within a game we play, tracking, FTE, frapsquest, CoTH ducking, etc, Everquest got lost somewhere.

I'd like to see a server that had guilds with membership caps so each individual actually contribute something by attending raids. The sheer number of people needed to keep the 24/7 machine fed minimizes an individual's importance. So naturally, your respective "crazies" are put on a pedestal. Those are people who probably enjoy the sick meta game, are good at it, and would probably not like P99 anymore if the game changed.

The game needs to change though. If TMO taught me anything, it's that EQ without competition is pretty fun. More competition means more escalation means more drastic measures means more negativity to secure that all important FTE. Those things bleed the fun out of the game that was originally about killing dragons for fun's sake.

The leaders of these guilds need to sudden realize that no matter what they do, short of a Pyrrhic victory every single spawn, they aren't going to win. If the raid scene scaled back on our uhh competition and revolved more around enjoying the game, like with a rotation... this would be a healthier server. But I have doubts about our FTE heroes ever allowing that to happen. They aren't martyrs. They enjoy it.

I don't think it's the players solely responsible for the mess at the top. Don't get me wrong, a swath of them act like you just asked them if they wanted to live in North Korea when you bring about the idea of any sort of rotation. It's something I was hoping the leadership of Awakened would bring to the table at the summit (outside ToV) to at least allow for some C/R/FFA stuff. I knew Aftermath would never do it. I was hoping Awakened had some common sense to put Aftermath in their own corner as pariahs.

Sirken's VZ background certainly makes sense as it relates to him loving "competition". The difference is on Vallon Zek when we competed it was full scale 55 on 80 wars with strategic involvement. Getting mobilized first essentially equalled the high ground as you could plop yourself in ToV entrance as the others had to zone in etc. Sirken is trying to stick a cube in a round hole by doing that on a blue server. It makes very little sense to place such high value on "competition" without having a feasible way to actually compete other than going into untold levels of nerd-dom.

I agree. The server would be healthier in the long run if some end game content, and not all of it, there should be a separation after all, was made accessible to the actual public and not the super nerd clubs.

I was advocating for a rotation outside of ToV and VP in the same exact mold that they had in Kunark. Any killing inside ToV automatically moves you to class C. Giving up 1 out of 3 KTs, Yelis, CTs to the more casual guilds was just an abhorrent idea, particularly to the Rampage side of Awakened. I doubt it was even discussed in Aftermath. Detoxx's depravity and his spin doctors know no limits. The barrier of entry for the smaller guilds is so large we will see moving forward if it's feasible under the new rules. It is pretty sick the lengths to which people will go to keep the status quo. It's why I left Awakened even though there are a ton of good people and friends in that guild. It's a grind fest lacking fun.

If I can be even a small help to a Class R guild to even some scales, it's what I hope to do. If I'm going to sink to those levels of "competition", Id much rather do it with people having fun day in, day out, than treat it as a job.

TL:DR Cecily - I agree with you.

[Raev]

The game needs to change though. If TMO taught me anything, it's that EQ without competition is pretty fun. More competition means more escalation means more drastic measures means more negativity to secure that all important FTE. Those things bleed the fun out of the game that was originally about killing dragons for fun's sake.

100% agree with this, but it's pretty surprising to see it coming from you.

The problem is variance bleeds the fun out of the game. You have to be a monstrous 24/7 tracking zerg.

I just don't think the players can solve this though. There is a critical mass of people willing to track/batphone/zerg for pixels (I am one, it seems).

[Maner]

I don't think it's the players solely responsible for the mess at the top. Don't get me wrong, a swath of them act like you just asked them if they wanted to live in North Korea when you bring about the idea of any sort of rotation. It's something I was hoping the leadership of Awakened would bring to the table at the summit (outside ToV) to at least allow for some C/R/FFA stuff. I knew Aftermath would never do it. I was hoping Awakened had some common sense to put Aftermath in their own corner as pariahs.

Sirken's VZ background certainly makes sense as it relates to him loving "competition". The difference is on Vallon Zek when we competed it was full scale 55 on 80 wars with strategic involvement. Getting mobilized first essentially equalled the high ground as you could plop yourself in ToV entrance as the others had to zone in etc. Sirken is trying to stick a cube in a round hole by doing that on a blue server. It makes very little sense to place such high value on "competition" without having a feasible way to actually compete other than going into untold levels of nerd-dom.

I agree. The server would be healthier in the long run if some end game content, and not all of it, there should be a separation after all, was made accessible to the actual public and not the super nerd clubs.

I was advocating for a rotation outside of ToV and VP in the same exact mold that they had in Kunark. Any killing inside ToV automatically moves you to class C. Giving up 1 out of 3 KTs, Yelis, CTs to the more casual guilds was just an abhorrent idea, particularly to the Rampage side of Awakened. I doubt it was even discussed in Aftermath. Detoxx's depravity and his spin doctors know no limits. The barrier of entry for the smaller guilds is so large we will see moving forward if it's feasible under the new rules. It is pretty sick the lengths to which people will go to keep the status quo. It's why I left Awakened even though there are a ton of good people and friends in that guild. It's a grind fest lacking fun.

If I can be even a small help to a Class R guild to even some scales, it's what I hope to do. If I'm going to sink to those levels of "competition", Id much rather do it with people having fun day in, day out, than treat it as a job.

TL:DR Cecily - I agree with you.

You obviously have no idea how the internal conversations go in either guild if that is what you think. We are where we are, rule wise, because awakened refused to abide by the agreements made between rampage and forsaken/Asgard. The whole 2 mages per target was awakeneds doing.

[Swish]

The problem is variance bleeds the fun out of the game.

What about people who aren't on American time? Set those mobs to prime US hours and freeze out people in other time zones.

"really bleeds the fun out of the game" having variance folks...

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean; each guild only get one target? Or each guild rotates targets? Or is it FFA and each guild can only engage one target at once?

This rule is not a cure-all. it is an example of a rule that diversifies raid scene.

Any guild that has not killed a mob yet (ie, a Trakanon or a Phara Dar, a statue, etc, etc.) can camp a spawn and get X minute long window to do an attempt at spawn. As long as they are in force they can claim first try. Window for that try can be adjusted to taste. This at least means, any guild on p99 can make an effort and camp a spawn, and at least get one shot. After a guild has killed a mob, this of course is no longer a relevant rule. It's not a cure-all, as I said.

[Jarnauga]

i hope the trackers can kill the dragons by themselves

What's the point of me loging in if i don't have a fucking chance of having vulak loot after a year of constant raiding, amirite ? :rolleyes:

[xexbis0]

You obviously have no idea how the internal conversations go in either guild if that is what you think. We are where we are, rule wise, because awakened refused to abide by the agreements made between rampage and forsaken/Asgard. The whole 2 mages per target was awakeneds doing.

Oh. I'm sure gating mages to targets and CoTHing had nothing to do with more than 2 mages in North, something which eventually led to Aftermath conceding multiple Dragons. Awakened had 2 mages in North at its formation and gave up when you started doing something you thought was immensely clever. Thank you for proving my point about Aftermath and it's spin team though. You dissect a tiny piece and proceed to straight out lie and misrepresent facts. Awakened did move multiple mages to targets. That much is true.

[Mistle]

The true solution is a lot easier than everyone here is making it out to be.

Two servers.

This server, with full on competition. CotH ducking, trains everywhere, you name it.

A new server, with lockouts.

Which server would have all the people within six months, and which would be bordering on Red territory of irrelevance?

I think we all know the answer.

[Maner]

Oh. I'm sure gating mages to targets and CoTHing had nothing to do with more than 2 mages in North, something which eventually led to Aftermath conceding multiple Dragons. Awakened had 2 mages in North at its formation and gave up when you started doing something you thought was immensely clever. Thank you for proving my point about Aftermath and it's spin team though. You dissect a tiny piece and proceed to straight out lie and misrepresent facts. Awakened did move multiple mages to targets. That much is true.

You mean doing the exact same thing a week or two before awakened caught on and did it to? gating mages is sure a lot less of a time investment than 2 per target lmao. Stop trying to act like throwing 10 mages in north tov is somehow awakened taking the high road. They felt they no longer needed to abide by the agreed upon rules and so they backed out and upped the required an power. Nice try at spinning it though, seems like you were just another uninformed member

[khanable]

Yeah fuck Awakened for competing too hard and fuck the casuals for not competing hard enough

Those sons of bitches

[Not Sure]

100% agree with this, but it's pretty surprising to see it coming from you.

The problem is variance bleeds the fun out of the game. You have to be a monstrous 24/7 tracking zerg.

I just don't think the players can solve this though. There is a critical mass of people willing to track/batphone/zerg for pixels (I am one, it seems).

Really is sad to see how far you and the rest of the old A-team people have fallen. From bitching that 30 people in sky is too many, to this abomination you participate in now. Glad I left when I did.

Sincerely,
Bobbarker

[xexbis0]

You mean doing the exact same thing a week or two before awakened caught on and did it to? gating mages is sure a lot less of a time investment than 2 per target lmao. Stop trying to act like throwing 10 mages in north tov is somehow awakened taking the high road. They felt they no longer needed to abide by the agreed upon rules and so they backed out and upped the required an power. Nice try at spinning it though, seems like you were just another uninformed member

Last time I'll waste my time with you. The difference between us is you think Awakened was unable to come up with your super genius idea when in reality they didn't think it was legal. Both guilds can come up with every little loophole over night in the rules. I'm not a naive little puppet like you are. This box has some of the biggest EQ fanbois you'll ever see. I find what both guilds are doing ridiculous and moved on. The sooner you realize you know nothing and shut your mouth, the better off your guild will be.

[Cecily]

Always wanted to join A-team, besides the whole Nordenwatch thing... Seemed like you guys played EQ right. That guild would definitely be having fun in Velious.

[Xaanka]

blue server sounds really fun to raid on! read every post in this thread! where do i sign up?

[Cecily]

It's still better than red atm. Let that sink in.

[Maner]

Last time I'll waste my time with you. The difference between us is you think Awakened was unable to come up with your super genius idea when in reality they didn't think it was legal. Both guilds can come up with every little loophole over night in the rules. I'm not a naive little puppet like you are. This box has some of the biggest EQ fanbois you'll ever see. I find what both guilds are doing ridiculous and moved on. The sooner you realize you know nothing and shut your mouth, the better off your guild will be.

Fact is they also gated mages, perhaps you should stop playing all high and mighty and take your own advice, don't talk on what you don't know.

[Raev]

Really is sad to see how far you and the rest of the old A-team people have fallen. From bitching that 30 people in sky is too many, to this abomination you participate in now. Glad I left when I did.

Sincerely,
Bobbarker

BUT PIXELS

[Tycoon]

Fact is they also gated mages, perhaps you should stop playing all high and mighty and take your own advice, don't talk on what you don't know.

Best part is this turd can make whatever claims he likes about Awakened because they won't bother to defend themselves in this shithole. RNF so good.

[Phantasm]

pixILLS

[zanderklocke]

Always wanted to join A-team, besides the whole Nordenwatch thing... Seemed like you guys played EQ right. That guild would definitely be having fun in Velious.

Yeah...the current guild seems to be a shell of itself. Honestly, the Class R/C system wrecked the guild, and in my opinion, wrecked a lot of the guilds on the server. The game always seemed to be the most fun when TMO was the only guild that really was doing content, before even Forceful Entry was competing against them.

None of the casual guilds participated in trying to get mobs, and everyone just sort of had fun doing their own thing. However, once every casual guild was given a taste of mobs with the class system, the culture seemed to begin to change in all of them. The A-Team recruited all of these individuals who were a terrible fit for what the original guild was created for. Many of these new people were the reason the guild merged with Inglourious Basterds because they thought we "had" to do this to survive in Velious. Yet, I don't ever recall raiding mobs or going for the most contested mobs as part of the original A-Team's goals, so I'm still not sure how we would not have "survived" in Velious...unless surviving meant getting high end gear directly from raid mobs. The original A-Team was more concerned about the solo artist challenge or killing mobs in Sky with one group and occasionally buying VP rots and epics. I mean I would duo fire giants with Raev's warrior and my bard because it was fun and challenging; there was no reward there. Because of the skill versus content, platinum per player was probably higher in the A-Team than any other guild because everyone in the guild was a fucking platinum farming machine and could kill mobs not usually soloed. I mean fuck, Nordenwatch had 12 million platinum on his character, and most of the other people had characters with net worths of 1.5-3 million, if not higher. However, our own greed destroyed our guild when we realized we could potentially earn high end items through entering the R raid scene, and the guild stopped being about cool challenges and instead became about pixels.

[zanderklocke]

Really is sad to see how far you and the rest of the old A-team people have fallen. From bitching that 30 people in sky is too many, to this abomination you participate in now. Glad I left when I did.

Sincerely,
Bobbarker

Salute.

[Cecily]

Let's be real. A-team getting epics is what destroyed the guild.

[zanderklocke]

Let's be real. A-team getting epics is what destroyed the guild.

Probably.

[nicemace]

phinny server is actually a good example of a healthy raid server.

instanced raids so even casual guilds who raid 12 hours a week in the evenings are clearing VP.

buffed mobs so they aren't a complete walk over (naggy hitting in the 1000's)

still open world mobs for the 'competition'

insanely slow exp for all you p99 nerds who like slow levelling.

majority no boxing (requires addition PC to box)

[Raev]

Here is the thing, though: Kunark was a grouping expansion while Velious is a raiding expansion.

In Kunark most of the content was geared towards single groups: new levels, new spells, and new dungeons that contained some of the best items in the game. The raid content consisted of VP and a few outdoor dragons, some of which dropped Classic items! And with the armor bp/greaves tradeable, if you were in an 'R' guild you could see 95% of the content and get 95% of the gear (everything but PD).

In Velious most of the content is geared towards raids. No new levels. Only a few new spells. Three fun new dungeons that no one goes to (with these words I summon Xoquil) because they are harder than Sebilis and don't have the signature loot items. Meanwhile the raid content is massive: Temple of Veeshan is really three raid zones welded together, Kael is also huge and well designed, Plane of Growth, Sleeper's Tomb, and plenty of random targets. The gear difference is also huge; you can effectively get PD loot in every slot.

So if you are in an 'R' guild you are basically limited to grabbing uncontested Kunark dragons and finishing epics and farming ToV East or West endlessly (or you could just BDA and help Chest's alt get a crown of rile). You get to see maybe 50% of the content of Velious and get 50% of the gear. And I think we are starting to see the rumblings of this on the Raid Discussion forum. CSG, BDA, Divinity, Anonymous, etc are all starting to get tired of that 500th Halls of Testing raid.

I've been there in the trenches on the raid discussion forum trying to get the staff to change the raid scene to something that rewards coordination and player skill rather than zerg poopsocking. After about 2-3 years, I gave up. It's just not going to happen. The staff may not like the current situation, but they don't hate it enough to fix it. Who can blame them? Rogean burned out long ago but he keeps the server up for free anyway. I can't imagine spending 20+ hours a week answering petitions and watching raid guilds lawyer each other without getting paid.

So I decided I'd rather zerg poopsock a bit (my schedule is flexible, so logging in for 10 minutes to kill a dragon periodically isn't particularly onerous) than miss out on 2/3 of the expansion. There are also quite some decent people in Rampage/Awakened, and nothing is stopping me from doing some of the group content too. I had a fun time in Siren's Grotto today doing the lower temple with a few pals.

TLDR: I decided to stop fighting a losing battle.

[Swish]

Here is the thing, though: Kunark was a grouping expansion while Velious is a raiding expansion.

That's not true, it took BDA 75-80 people, and Taken a similar number to take down Trakanon.

[arsenalpow]

(or you could just BDA and help Chest's alt get a crown of rile)

Cmon now, there's literally 4 crowns in BDA monk, rogue, Me, and a ranger. Phara Dar is a stupid dragon.

[Raev]

Everyone knows all loot in BDA goes to officer alts. Your protestations to the contrary are fooling no one Chest.

[arsenalpow]

Everyone knows all loot in BDA goes to officer alts. Your protestations to the contrary are fooling no one Chest.

I wish. My shitty alts would be so decked out.

[radda]

Phony mobs are beefed up?
Damn.... Kinda want to try them

[radda]

Phinny

[arsenalpow]

Phony mobs are beefed up?
Damn.... Kinda want to try them

There was a thread about revamped Cazic. The uber guild tried him, he didn't drop to 98% lol. Phinny staff was like "yes, perfectly acceptable raid, git guud"

[Man0warr]

None of the casual guilds participated in trying to get mobs, and everyone just sort of had fun doing their own thing. However, once every casual guild was given a taste of mobs with the class system, the culture seemed to begin to change in all of them.

BDA and Divinity haven't changed one bit, imo.

[xexbis0]

Here is the thing, though: Kunark was a grouping expansion while Velious is a raiding expansion.

In Kunark most of the content was geared towards single groups: new levels, new spells, and new dungeons that contained some of the best items in the game. The raid content consisted of VP and a few outdoor dragons, some of which dropped Classic items! And with the armor bp/greaves tradeable, if you were in an 'R' guild you could see 95% of the content and get 95% of the gear (everything but PD).

In Velious most of the content is geared towards raids. No new levels. Only a few new spells. Three fun new dungeons that no one goes to (with these words I summon Xoquil) because they are harder than Sebilis and don't have the signature loot items. Meanwhile the raid content is massive: Temple of Veeshan is really three raid zones welded together, Kael is also huge and well designed, Plane of Growth, Sleeper's Tomb, and plenty of random targets. The gear difference is also huge; you can effectively get PD loot in every slot.

So if you are in an 'R' guild you are basically limited to grabbing uncontested Kunark dragons and finishing epics and farming ToV East or West endlessly (or you could just BDA and help Chest's alt get a crown of rile). You get to see maybe 50% of the content of Velious and get 50% of the gear. And I think we are starting to see the rumblings of this on the Raid Discussion forum. CSG, BDA, Divinity, Anonymous, etc are all starting to get tired of that 500th Halls of Testing raid.

I've been there in the trenches on the raid discussion forum trying to get the staff to change the raid scene to something that rewards coordination and player skill rather than zerg poopsocking. After about 2-3 years, I gave up. It's just not going to happen. The staff may not like the current situation, but they don't hate it enough to fix it. Who can blame them? Rogean burned out long ago but he keeps the server up for free anyway. I can't imagine spending 20+ hours a week answering petitions and watching raid guilds lawyer each other without getting paid.

So I decided I'd rather zerg poopsock a bit (my schedule is flexible, so logging in for 10 minutes to kill a dragon periodically isn't particularly onerous) than miss out on 2/3 of the expansion. There are also quite some decent people in Rampage/Awakened, and nothing is stopping me from doing some of the group content too. I had a fun time in Siren's Grotto today doing the lower temple with a few pals.

TLDR: I decided to stop fighting a losing battle.

And this is why I decided to leave. Despite the fact yall have to resort to making xexsessed jokes about tunare in mumble/guild chat and crap, Tunare had very little to do with my departure. It's kind of sad honestly how often I hear about my name. I honestly thought Awakened had a better moral code than they did. I knew the Taken officers and the ones leading that side of the merger. I considered them good people. I thought they had a really good platform to really push for a better raid scene at that summit. It turns out, Awakened is very similar to Aftermath except they care about playing by the rules just slightly more. That realization, that the soul of the good people in Taken lost in this merger, was a loss I was unwilling to care about. There's this massive amount of elitist attitude from people in that guild who think because they were Rampage, they were god's gift to Velious. I expected Detoxx and co to be a bunch of selfish pricks in that summit. Awakened not so much. The 2 are oh so very similar despite wanting to act like they are so different. There are decent people in both guilds. Plenty who think this arms race is beyond bleeping retarded. This isn't EQ. It's some weird "who can be the best people to neglect RL" to be able to swing your dick around the most between two fairly comparable guilds. I just don't understand why there can't be a balance between competition and human decency. Join the stupidity or let these literal dozens/hundreds of days played never result in any end game velious content. Fun.

[radda]

There was a thread about revamped Cazic. The uber guild tried him, he didn't drop to 98% lol. Phinny staff was like "yes, perfectly acceptable raid, git guud"

Ugh, sounds fun and challenging

[contemptor]

And this is why I decided to leave. Despite the fact yall have to resort to making xexsessed jokes about tunare in mumble/guild chat and crap, Tunare had very little to do with my departure. It's kind of sad honestly how often I hear about my name. I honestly thought Awakened had a better moral code than they did. I knew the Taken officers and the ones leading that side of the merger. I considered them good people. I thought they had a really good platform to really push for a better raid scene at that summit. It turns out, Awakened is very similar to Aftermath except they care about playing by the rules just slightly more. That realization, that the soul of the good people in Taken lost in this merger, was a loss I was unwilling to care about. There's this massive amount of elitist attitude from people in that guild who think because they were Rampage, they were god's gift to Velious. I expected Detoxx and co to be a bunch of selfish pricks in that summit. Awakened not so much. The 2 are oh so very similar despite wanting to act like they are so different. There are decent people in both guilds. Plenty who think this arms race is beyond bleeping retarded. This isn't EQ. It's some weird "who can be the best people to neglect RL" to be able to swing your dick around the most between two fairly comparable guilds. I just don't understand why there can't be a balance between competition and human decency. Join the stupidity or let these literal dozens/hundreds of days played never result in any end game velious content. Fun.
Well, a bunch of 30 year old guys (or former guys) find that competition fulfilling and don't see a problem. I enjoy watching my grass grow more exciting than that scene. I have a pretty solid lawn game going on though, so I could be biased.

Sadly, this is why MMOs had to introduce instancing and such. Otherwise, the addicted 2% of the population that treat it as a full time job and ruins the fun the game was intended for. But hey, it's a classic server, I don't pay to play here, so it is what it is. I enjoy hanging out with my buds in game and vent. I prolly had better gear on live where the crazies weren't bound to one server, but I have better amigos here.

[Aviann]

And this is why I decided to leave. Despite the fact yall have to resort to making xexsessed jokes about tunare in mumble/guild chat and crap, Tunare had very little to do with my departure. It's kind of sad honestly how often I hear about my name. I honestly thought Awakened had a better moral code than they did. I knew the Taken officers and the ones leading that side of the merger. I considered them good people. I thought they had a really good platform to really push for a better raid scene at that summit. It turns out, Awakened is very similar to Aftermath except they care about playing by the rules just slightly more. That realization, that the soul of the good people in Taken lost in this merger, was a loss I was unwilling to care about. There's this massive amount of elitist attitude from people in that guild who think because they were Rampage, they were god's gift to Velious. I expected Detoxx and co to be a bunch of selfish pricks in that summit. Awakened not so much. The 2 are oh so very similar despite wanting to act like they are so different. There are decent people in both guilds. Plenty who think this arms race is beyond bleeping retarded. This isn't EQ. It's some weird "who can be the best people to neglect RL" to be able to swing your dick around the most between two fairly comparable guilds. I just don't understand why there can't be a balance between competition and human decency. Join the stupidity or let these literal dozens/hundreds of days played never result in any end game velious content. Fun.

Ok... so you've learned this about Awakened... have you ever been inside Aftermath?

[arsenalpow]

A lot of truth being dropped in this thread from Raev and Xexbis. Both have been in the middle of this shitty raid scene, except Raev acknowledges how awful it is and just stomaches it, and Xexbis walks away.

There's no path of progression for a guild that can't/won't do what Awakened/Aftermath are doing. There's no incentive for a guild to continue growing and advancing. Anyone coming up through the ranks right now will have to fight CSG and Anon/Div for anything in Kunark and those are seasoned raid forces. The next step is VP, welcome to full sock Aftermath, Awakened, and BDA. Hope you know the snap pull/train strats or you're fucked. Then there's shitty Velious content, more CSG and Anon/Div to contest, then good luck ever seeing ToV or city leaders.

The foot races aren't a solution, sorry.

[Phantasm]

Typical casuals. Always reaching ever farther with their palms outstretched. The reality is some of these nerds like to do what they do.

Short of a mass exodus, radical overhaul of the current raid scene(I.e. lockouts, rotations, etc) or complete reworking of the raid rules(shift of focus from FTE to a number of alternatives) be prepared for a very, very cold Winter on p99

[Sodors Finest Poster]

Consider a rotation (until BDA abuses it).

http://i.imgur.com/9NMROTU.gif

[Swish]

Typical casuals. Always reaching ever farther with their palms outstretched. The reality is some of these nerds like to do what they do.

Short of a mass exodus, radical overhaul of the current raid scene(I.e. lockouts, rotations, etc) or complete reworking of the raid rules(shift of focus from FTE to a number of alternatives) be prepared for a very, very cold Winter on p99
__________________
Vetus ~ Tyrs ~ Draoi ~ Audios
<Bregan D'Aerth>


That identity crisis again.

[xexbis0]

Ok... so you've learned this about Awakened... have you ever been inside Aftermath?

Do the Aftermath people in RNF have an [OFF] button for spinning 24/7? I really don't care about your stupid one-up-manship of each other. Have you seen the text wall of your glorious leader's quotes? He's a nerdraging lunatic. To boot, your DKP site isn't private. It isn't hard to see if Forsaken and co. really followed through with pixel packages and rewarding those who carried that guild/alliance. My only true surprise is how long they allowed Asgard's lack of contributing for so long before forcing the merger. It's pretty showing that the only people in this thread spinning rhetoric are Aftermath.

[Gimp]

Keep everything in ToV and Kael as races, reduce variance by half, limit FTErs to 5 per guild and 3 troops a month.

Hey guys, I just fixed this retardery.

[Gimp]

3 repops* a month.

This phone is a dickhead.

[JurisDictum]

Do the Aftermath people in RNF have an [OFF] button for spinning 24/7? I really don't care about your stupid one-up-manship of each other. Have you seen the text wall of your glorious leader's quotes? He's a nerdraging lunatic. To boot, your DKP site isn't private. It isn't hard to see if Forsaken and co. really followed through with pixel packages and rewarding those who carried that guild/alliance. My only true surprise is how long they allowed Asgard's lack of contributing for so long before forcing the merger. It's pretty showing that the only people in this thread spinning rhetoric are Aftermath.

The only people that thought "Asgard not contributing" was a big problem was the Rampage members that spyed on their forums. I'm reminded of that scene of 12 hour photo when Robin Wiliams character was spying on a family a saying "what is wrong with these people!?" to himself.

Those posts are designed to get people to volunteer tracking. Even then if you read closely, they say things like this "could start becoming a problem." By the time you guys got around to posting it on RnF -- several Asgard members were track regularly.

Think about it, how many best in slot Vulak items for a particular class drop a year? Maybe 2-3 for each class? Even that seems generous. Some people burn out and quit before they get their shit. Unlike Rampage, the guild isn't the reason some people never got their items.

[Cecily]

Keep everything in ToV and Kael as races, reduce variance by half, limit FTErs to 5 per guild and 3 troops a month.

Hey guys, I just fixed this retardery.

I'm not why people think reduced variance is a solution for anything. The closer to 0 variance we get, the more participants (whether logged in or logged out.) 5 FTEer cap is still a ton of people, 200-300 people logging in on spawn is still enough to desync it.

Your idea is bad because it's just short variance, although the arbitrary numbers really made it unique. Shorter variance encourages more people and guilds to opt in. Ideal raiding conditions happen when more people opt out. Bring back long + extended windows and I promise the raid scene will get more comfortable.

Or do the smart thing and get your guilds, not the staff, to make a rotation.

[Gimp]

Neither Awakened or Aftermath will ever be behind a full rotation that includes ToV. Just the way it is. GMs obviously want to encourage "lesser" guilds to participate, and shorter variance and more troops are two essential steps towards that.

[Gimp]

I guess from here on, just assume I mean "repops" when you see "troops"
Fucking annoying

[Swish]

Or do the smart thing and get your guilds, not the staff, to make a rotation.

Think of the casually hardcore guilds that would want in on that tho

[Pokesan]

Spawn length variance is the punishment you all deserve.

[Swish]

Spawn length variance is the punishment you all deserve.

Exactly, and don't forget to CotH duck for hours at a time...pays to be a few seconds ahead after all.

[Cecily]

I know, Gimp. Because those guilds are both sick. You can't win. This. They aren't lesser guilds anymore. You haven't accomplished anything special by going hardcore because on a limitless timeframe, every person who plays here evens out eventually. It's like bragging about being level 60 now. Might have been a big thing at one point, but it's just pathetic to be proud of eventually. Same thing will happen with NToV gear. You kids should learn to share your toys before then.

[Gimp]

If those two guilds are willing to put in the crazy amount of time and effort that Kael and ToV FTEing requires, let em. The "I want what you have, but I refuse to put in the same effort you do for it" mentality is millenial as fuck.

[arsenalpow]

I know, Gimp. Because those guilds are both sick. You can't win. This. They aren't lesser guilds anymore. You haven't accomplished anything special by going hardcore because on a limitless timeframe, every person who plays here evens out eventually. It's like bragging about being level 60 now. Might have been a big thing at one point, but it's just pathetic to be proud of eventually. Same thing will happen with NToV gear. You kids should learn to share your toys before then.

Taking a step back and looking at what's required to "win" the p99 raid scene will make a person thoroughly reconsider his/her priorities. When you're in that bubble everything seems normal, but step away and try to explain the raid scene to someone that's never been around it. Not one single person will think "oh that's a totally normal thing to be doing" A sickness is the most apt description.

[arsenalpow]

If those two guilds are willing to put in the crazy amount of time and effort that Kael and ToV FTEing requires, let em. The "I want what you have, but I refuse to put in the same effort you do for it" mentality is millenial as fuck.

Can you stop comparing a 17 YEAR OLD VIDEO GAME to real fucking life? It's not even close man.

[Man0warr]

Better to play the long game for the casual guilds at this point. Just let the two hardcore guilds burn themselves out - maybe the next guilds to take up the mantle (there is always someone) will realize it.

[Pokesan]

If those two guilds are willing to put in the crazy amount of time and effort that Kael and ToV FTEing requires, let em. The "I want what you have, but I refuse to put in the same effort you do for it" mentality is millenial as fuck.

Kids today!!

*sips metamucil*

[Freakish]

Better to play the long game for the casual guilds at this point. Just let the two hardcore guilds burn themselves out - maybe the next guilds to take up the mantle (there is always someone) will realize it.

It's been TMO vs IB for how many years now? You can change the tag but it's basically the same evolution while discarding the bad rep of the name to draw new blood.

[Thana8088]

What makes you think the top 2 guilds will ever burn out? Their composition may change, but the song remains the same.

[Man0warr]

If those two guilds are willing to put in the crazy amount of time and effort that Kael and ToV FTEing requires, let em. The "I want what you have, but I refuse to put in the same effort you do for it" mentality is millenial as fuck.

More like everyone that plays on P99 wants to experience all that it has to offer. That's the reason people play this type of server. They didn't come here to neckbeard it up like they did in highschool/college 17 years ago.

Instead you have 5% of the server using tactics no sane person will stoop to that keeps the other 8-10 guilds from experiencing the majority of Velious. At least with Kunark the casuals could do most of what there was to offer.

[Gimp]

More like everyone that plays on P99 wants to experience all that it has to offer. That's the reason people play this type of server. They didn't come here to neckbeard it up like they did in highschool/college 17 years ago.

Instead you have 5% of the server using tactics no sane person will stoop to that keeps the other 8-10 guilds from experiencing the majority of Velious. At least with Kunark the casuals could do most of what there was to offer.

So you're basically agreeing with what I said.

[Man0warr]

What makes you think the top 2 guilds will ever burn out? Their composition may change, but the song remains the same.

The burnout rate seems much faster than Kunark - way more targets that you MUST contest and kill. The flow of people into the server seems much less now too, less fodder for the fire.

It seems unsustainable - even the people in AA realize that, that's the only reason they wanted changes from the CoTH racing. Now there is just a different type of race though.

[arsenalpow]

What happens when there's no more guilds to cannibalize? Mergers/absorbtions have been fast and furious and we aren't even a year in.

[Gimp]

I know a lot that are on the verge of burning out from both top guilds, myself included. Racing is fun and all, but that's about all that's left keeping me here. I'd say in about 6 months, the members of both AA will look nothing like they do now.

[arsenalpow]

I know a lot that are on the verge of burning out from both top guilds, myself included. Racing is fun and all, but that's about all that's left keeping me here. I'd say in about 6 months, the members of both AA will look nothing like they do now.

In 6 months AA will merge into one hardcore guild with the common goal of keeping raid loot out of the hands of casuals.

[Man0warr]

The remaining casual guilds are pretty entrenched too, not many merging prospects when the time comes. Divinity/BDA are what they are, and have been the same for 4 years or more. Would be very hard or impossible to get one of the CSG guilds to merge with an AA guild. Anon is pretty close with Divinity.

Really you'd have to hope for a new and upcoming guild like Asgard that wants in on the scene. Not many of those these days.

[Legday]

Cut off my hands, gouge out my eyes, burn me alive....but just do NOT let casuals have anything that I want.

The burnout is real. Give it a few months and then swoop in. You'll get the sickness all the same, though.

[Cecily]

In 6 months AA will merge into one hardcore guild with the common goal of keeping raid loot out of the hands of casuals.

http://i.imgur.com/d49pLWz.gif

[Raev]

My prediction is that the raid scene continues as is for another year-ish. By that point Nilbog will have finished the various Velious revamps, and they will release a fresh server with a correct timeline while resetting Sleeper's Tomb here. Most of the players who switch servers will be the more hardcore types who don't have zillions of plat amassed and want to start fresh.

There will still be sufficient players on P1999 for at least one hardcore raiding guild. Some people will stay because they want to 'finish' their characters, others because their friends are staying. This new hardcore guild will go hard in the paint for a while, but once the P1999 population continues to dwindle to the point when <1000 are online at prime time, they'll probably just agree to rotate everything outside of Vulak, Dozekar, and Avatar of War.

[Llodd]

Velious will be the servers saviour. It will fix all the problems.

Where are those false prophets now?

[arsenalpow]

Cut off my hands, gouge out my eyes, burn me alive....but just do NOT let casuals have anything that I want.

The burnout is real. Give it a few months and then swoop in. You'll get the sickness all the same, though.

We won't though. That's the thing. If we wanted to raid like AA we'd be doing it every single cycle every single time. We can do it sometimes in small doses like PD yesterday for 8 hours or whatever but people were miserable the entire time. The goal of BDA is to actually play the game, have fun with friends will doing so, and hopefully get some pixels in the process. Sitting at a zoneline with a bard spinning selos while we all watch a screen shared on Skype because that's microseconds faster than the bard actually bind sighting is sooooo gross. It's not even the same game at that point.

We had a nice smooth Dain kill over the weekend because Aftermath was forced to concede after snap pulling Dain, getting eaten by a train, thus turning the entire encounter into a disaster. We're playing different games. No one will admit that though.

[Cecily]

I mean Lord of Pixels 2 was funny because there was so much truth in it. If a void opens up in the top, the pixels will enslave a new, formerly casual, owner. I think ALOT of people forget that The Mystical Order was a casual guild at one point. If the cycle doesn't get broken by a mutual consensus, it will continue perpetually.

[Legday]

We had a nice smooth Dain kill over the weekend because Aftermath was forced to concede after snap pulling Dain, getting eaten by a train, thus turning the entire encounter into a disaster. We're playing different games. No one will admit that though.

No one will admit what? That A/A and the rest of the server have drastically different playstyles? That's been said hundreds of times on these forums.

It's the root cause of the issues with the raid scene. Hardcores don't want to give up mobs that they're willing to work hard for and casuals don't want to work as hard for the mobs that the hardcores don't want to give away. Casuals see it as over the top and hardcores see it as a meta game. Being better than the other guy.

So here we are, the new rules that don't fix the problem that the casual guilds set out hoping to see fixed. The only thing they do is increase the burnout factor by needing twice the amount of people to cover all of the bases. I guess that's a win for you guys.

No new rule set will ever fix the issue because the hardcore guilds will always find a way to play harder, inside of those rules, that you guys will (understandably) shake your heads in disbelief and stay away from for the most part.

Both sides think the other side needs to come closer to the other's playstyle but it will never happen. This game and this server is wide open for the taking. If there are players on this server willing to be gross and play EQ to its max then they can do that. Casuals think we're insane and they're right. Nice observation.

[Lojik]

In 6 months AA will merge into one hardcore guild with the common goal of keeping raid loot out of the hands of casuals.

Probably true.

I think as the weather gets nicer and now that velious has been out for a while you'll really start to see people go off and do other things. The raid scene is pretty bad IMO when u get to tov/kael/ whatever crap is hotly contested, it might get a little better with lower pop but who knows. Remember though, the hardcore people in awakened/aftermath don't actually give a shit about getting new pixels or experiencing content, they just wanna feel like they're "better" than people, and that requires excluding you from content AND your "tears". All the raid discussion talks are just ways for them to see what they consider "tears" from the casual guilds and it strokes their ego. If you want to eventually see this content but not have to stare at walls for 10 hours, I think the best thing to do is just pretend that this part of the game is pay to win (fuck yeah station cash!) and just enjoy the free to play part for now and be patient. If guilds keep putting up demands for fixing the raid scene, it keeps fueling that "competitive" fire in AA. But if AA sees that no one else gives a shit, eventually they'll get bored.

All the ridiculous rules you see in place are in place because of <insert whatever iteration of top 2 guilds> doing absolutely retarded things for a video game and then complaining about the other guild. But it doesn't matter how many rules you put in place, since the people who ultimately rule on these things will still have some sort of bias in their decision (you can spin it whichever way you like idc) and you will never be able to lay out specific enough rules to get rid of any bias of human judgement, ever. The rules should be simple with room for interpretation, but since there is limited enforcement and difficulty in proving wrongdoing, punishments should be somewhat severe, otherwise you just promote the lawyerquesting/rulepushing mentality that exists here. Some people like that scene I guess tho, and I doubt it will change anytime soon.

[JurisDictum]

It's the root cause of the issues with the raid scene. Hardcores don't want to give up mobs that they're willing to work hard for and casuals don't want to work as hard for the mobs that the hardcores don't want to give away. Casuals see it as over the top and hardcores see it as a meta game. Being better than the other guy.


We all agree on this but I don't think people consider this problem for what it is in reality. A small amount of people imposing their will on a larger one. No one tries to argue that the current way of playing was ever intended on live. So what we on the end are saying is its better to let a obsessed minority change the entire way the game is played, on server that is supposed to be for reliving classic EQ.

My sympathy is a lot greater than it is with say, casuals bitching about hard mode dungeons in WoW. If you can't do the content, get more dedicated and better as a team. But that's not an analogy on p99, because content is only hard because it is contested. On p99, they put people that literally play this game like professional as gatekeepers for content that normally wouldn't take 1/2 the effort.

Because I can separate my personal interest in pixils from my analysis of whats going on in the server, I'm sympathetic to casuals. I'm also sympathetic of people with compulsivity issues that screw their lives up trying to be number 1 on p99 -- something that shouldn't really require a human life to achieve.

[colicab]

We all agree on this but I don't think people consider this problem for what it is in reality. A small amount of people imposing their will on a larger one. No one tries to argue that the current way of playing was ever intended on live. So what we on the end are saying is its better to let a obsessed minority change the entire way the game is played, on server that is supposed to be for reliving classic EQ.

My sympathy is a lot greater than it is with say, casuals bitching about hard mode dungeons in WoW. If you can't do the content, get more dedicated and better as a team. But that's not an analogy on p99, because content is only hard because it is contested. On p99, they put people that literally play this game like professional as gatekeepers for content that normally wouldn't take 1/2 the effort.

Because I can separate my personal interest in pixils from my analysis of whats going on in the server, I'm sympathetic to casuals. I'm also sympathetic of people with compulsivity issues that screw their lives up trying to be number 1 on p99 -- something that shouldn't really require a human life to achieve.

No truer words have been spoken. This is why I quit P99. Good on you JurisDictum.

[trite]

I know it hurts to admit it but there aren't any pixels available for casual scum like us in NToV... the players who have two or three vulak items after 8 months of ToV raiding have been investing dozens of hours a week for the majority of that time.

[Raev]

Keep in mind that this whole hardcore/casual distinction is only possible due to the non-classic P1999 server specific aids known as variance.

[Skew]

In 6 months AA will merge into one hardcore guild with the common goal of keeping raid loot out of the hands of casuals.

I can get behind that.

No Gharn's or Abashi for Chest. It can be the PD robe challenge for Velious.

[Maner]

We won't though. That's the thing. If we wanted to raid like AA we'd be doing it every single cycle every single time. We can do it sometimes in small doses like PD yesterday for 8 hours or whatever but people were miserable the entire time. The goal of BDA is to actually play the game, have fun with friends will doing so, and hopefully get some pixels in the process. Sitting at a zoneline with a bard spinning selos while we all watch a screen shared on Skype because that's microseconds faster than the bard actually bind sighting is sooooo gross. It's not even the same game at that point.

We had a nice smooth Dain kill over the weekend because Aftermath was forced to concede after snap pulling Dain, getting eaten by a train, thus turning the entire encounter into a disaster. We're playing different games. No one will admit that though.
This is obviously bullshit as proven by the fact we now have run up rules. You do want what we get but you aren't willing to work for it. Youre the pathetic "me me me" people that are ruining this country.

[Juevento]

This is obviously bullshit as proven by the fact we now have run up rules. You do want what we get but you aren't willing to work for it. Youre the pathetic "me me me" people that are ruining this country.

This guy is extra frothy. Must be that lack of sleep from socking PD until goodness knows what unholy hour.

[Pokesan]

This is obviously bullshit as proven by the fact we now have run up rules. You do want what we get but you aren't willing to work for it. Youre the pathetic "me me me" people that are ruining this country.

Welcome to the Republican party!

[Maner]

This guy is extra frothy. Must be that lack of sleep from socking PD until goodness knows what unholy hour.

I was actually in Orlando for the last 2 raid cycles on vacation. So come again?

[Kodim]

If I was a guild not A/A, I would just bring a few runners out each week and go for the close spawns.

Dozekar and Eashen are really good, and a very short run.

[Thana8088]

I was actually in Orlando for the last 2 raid cycles on vacation. So come again?

Doesn't matter what you were ACTUALLY doing, BDA knows what's up.

[Man0warr]

I'm sure the casual guilds will do so the next time the timers are in the weekend. No one is gonna do that shit on a weekday though. It's all AA until a patch resets it.

[Maner]

I'm sure the casual guilds will do so the next time the timers are in the weekend. No one is gonna do that shit on a weekday though. It's all AA until a patch resets it.

So not only do they have to change the rules for your guild they also have to make sure to keep the mobs spawning on the days that best suit you?

[Relbaic]

So not only do they have to change the rules for your guild they also have to make sure to keep the mobs spawning on the days that best suit you?

You're bad at comprehension.