Server Hosting Oportunity

[freakyuno]

Hey Guys, thought I'd toss this out there:

I was an EQ player for longer than I care to count, and have been an Emu player on and off since the project got what I would call "stable"

Generally I prefer PVP to Blue servers, but it's an opinion, and everyone is entitled to his or her own preference. The reason I'm bringing this up is because I love the idea of Project 1999 but for me - it's missing the PvP aspect, and I'm sorry guys, flagging Red a PoD isnt the same. lol

In the spirit of helping to be part of my own solution. I have the ability to host a server, with very little desire to setup, develop or configure one from scratch.

What I'm offering:
4 Cores (of a 16 core Xeon box @ 2.8ghz)
4 to 16gb of Ram (depending on needs)
Unlimited hard drive space (as it relates to the project)
Windows Server 2008, 2003 or Linux installation (as it suits your needs)
50mb / 50mb dedicated fiber internet connection with direct routable address.

What I'd like to see is the Project 1999 code, in a PvP server version mirrored for thoes that enjoy and want to live in a PvP world. You keep your name, branding, admin control, GM control..etc

Just opening the topic up for brainstorming.

[Agecroft]

I kinda doubt they'd want to split the population between 2 servers right at the moment.

[freakyuno]

I kinda doubt they'd want to split the population between 2 servers right at the moment.

That may be the case, and I thought of that. It would be a population split, for better or for worse. They'd know better than I if thats in their line of goals. :)

[Aadill]

I kinda doubt they'd want to split the population between 2 servers right at the moment.

Or the staff.

[korrowan]

Or the staff.

Minus hacking there is no reason for them to patrol that server according to all these clowns that say pvp fixes all.

[Chanus]

I kinda doubt they'd want to split the population between 2 servers right at the moment.

I think this server can handle losing twelve players.

[Lazortag]

I just don't think you'd get a consistent full-time population. For most people pvp is something they like to have the option of doing occasionally, not something they want to live with constantly. Here's a poll on the eqemu site that I think attests to this:

» Current Poll
Favorite Server Type
PvP Only - 6.94%
60 Votes
Mostly PvP, Some PvE - 9.36%
81 Votes
PvE, Optional PvP - 43.24%
374 Votes
PvE Only - 40.46%

The "red guild" experiment was tried recently and at its peak, I think both red guilds had a combined total of like 50 casual players. And these aren't people who are very serious about pvp.

Another thing is that it's very discouraging to make a server that is bound to have so many bugs and issues with it. Right now there are many problems with pvp on p99 and few people do detailed bug reports about these problems (such as resist rates, melee damage, damage mitigation, spell messages, etc.) Another thing is that once a serious pvp server starts, it gets divided into two groups of people: people who are disadvantaged by bugs and people who are advantaged by bugs, endlessly bitching at each other about how things should be. This is exactly how it was on mortalquest (permadeath server started by Secrets; fun while it lasted).

Lastly, the devs here are likely very hesitant to just give out the source for p99 to another server. Lots of people have asked for the p99 database on various occasions, and for good reason: it's by far the highest quality server on eqemu with the most bugs fixed and the highest number of mechanics actually working as they should (have you ever tried playing a Bard on another server? On all the ones I've tried instruments don't even work. Seriously!) But if they just give away their source it defeats the purpose of all of their hard work, and disincentivizes others from working hard too.

I'm also not sure this community is the right one for a full pvp server, but surely abacab can tell you more about that.

[Yak]

I highly doubt that they will do this for the following reasons. I think it's great for your generosity though.

1. It's time consuming enough to maintain one server code, gm requests etc.

2. It would take away from the population of the current server. This would hurt both servers and not be good for the community.

3. I don't you understand what you are asking, it would be a lot of work for Nilog and Rogean to add another server.

4. You are in the minority that wants a PVP Classic server.

5. Since you don't want to maintain and do this yourself, what would make you think that Rogean and Nolog would want to do this?

6. Why not start your own PVP server?

7. They are busy getting Kunark ready.

[freakyuno]

My goal wasn't really to start a thread advocating pvp over pve, nor to imply that the dev's "should" start a pvp server, or even with the hopes that they "would" start a pvp server.

The goal of this thread was to open an option up. The server is free, high quality, and would be fully controlled by the dev's. They wouldn't be giving any of their IP away by doing it. I was just offering it up, no strings attached as an option.

Lots of good points were brought up about splitting bug time, staff, players...etc. I didnt think about any of that, nor am I really worried about it because ultimatly it's not my decision. The part that was my decision was about like this in my head:

"If you want a PvP server either roll your own, or get someone that knows what their doing and offer to help in some way". Thats about as far as I took it. :)

[Yak]

My goal wasn't really to start a thread advocating pvp over pve, nor to imply that the dev's "should" start a pvp server, or even with the hopes that they "would" start a pvp server.

The goal of this thread was to open an option up. The server is free, high quality, and would be fully controlled by the dev's. They wouldn't be giving any of their IP away by doing it. I was just offering it up, no strings attached as an option.

Lots of good points were brought up about splitting bug time, staff, players...etc. I didnt think about any of that, nor am I really worried about it because ultimatly it's not my decision. The part that was my decision was about like this in my head:

"If you want a PvP server either roll your own, or get someone that knows what their doing and offer to help in some way". Thats about as far as I took it. :)

Before going through all this effort, why not start a poll and see how many people would be interested? To be honest, i think you would be lucky to get over 10 dedicated players.

[Rogean]

Hosting a pvp server has never been about the resources. We have plenty of that and the ability to get more as needed.

Why wouldn't we host it on our own hardware if we wanted to run one?

[freakyuno]

Before going through all this effort, why not start a poll and see how many people would be interested? To be honest, i think you would be lucky to get over 10 dedicated players.

We'll like I said before. My goal was not to try to prove or determine, or create a "cause" for a pvp server. Only provide the means to get one, if the developers thought it was in their best interest.

[freakyuno]

Hosting a pvp server has never been about the resources. We have plenty of that and the ability to get more as needed.

...and there ya have it folks. :)

Thanks Rogean. Question answered.

[karsten]

I'd hop over to the pvp server in a heartbeat, provided we can figure out a way to keep people from warriortracking and such!

[Dr4z3r]

Lastly, the devs here are likely very hesitant to just give out the source for p99 to another server. ... But if they just give away their source it defeats the purpose of all of their hard work, and disincentivizes others from working hard too.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but this, sir, is grade-A bullshit.

1 - Giving it away absolutely would not defeat the purpose of their hard work: P99 would still be the only classic server hitting 800 people every night, and would still be the only server with a dedicated GM and dev staff that actually changes and updates things as they come up. It would always be head-and-shoulders above imitators in both quantity of players and quality of play experience.

2 - It disincentivizes others from working hard? Are you serious? Imagine if Leibniz and Newton had said "no, go invent your own damn calculus, moochers!"

[freakyuno]

Why wouldn't we host it on our own hardware if we wanted to run one?

Maybe you have the resources available to you posted somewhere, honestly I didnt look before making my thread. At any rate, If you have the hardware - then obviously the answer would be; you would host it on your own hardware. Servers and bandwidth are expensive as a hobby, was just offering up some resources - not knowing what you had available to you already.

[Lazortag]

1 - Giving it away absolutely would not defeat the purpose of their hard work: P99 would still be the only classic server hitting 800 people every night, and would still be the only server with a dedicated GM and dev staff that actually changes and updates things as they come up. It would always be head-and-shoulders above imitators in both quantity of players and quality of play experience.

2 - It disincentivizes others from working hard? Are you serious? Imagine if Leibniz and Newton had said "no, go invent your own damn calculus, moochers!"

I'm not sure what was so unreasonable about what I said. P99 is really the only server of remotely acceptable quality for anyone who's ever actually played the real game. The other servers are clunky and poorly coded with tons of obvious bugs. Basically giving out the source rewards people who don't work hard and makes their servers more popular than they should be, in relation to the amount of effort they put in.

As for the second point -- have you ever heard of patent laws? The whole point of measures like those is to increase competition and encourage innovation. In the case of P99, not giving out the source is a good policy because it means devs of other servers are forced to come up with fixes of their own rather than waiting on nilbog to do it for them eventually.

I don't think mathematical discoveries are really very analogous to the kinds of discoveries we have patents for (like technology, medicine, etc.), mostly because mathematicians tend to be rewarded more for just making the discoveries, as opposed to the profits they would earn from having a monopoly on who can use those discoveries. Maybe this isn't a really convincing argument. Whatever.

edit: also, I think it was nice of the OP to offer the resources for a pvp server. It's not his fault that he isn't 100% aware of every issue with starting such a server.

[Dr4z3r]

I'm not sure what was so unreasonable about what I said.

I just don't think you're giving very serious thought to what you're saying:

P99 is really the only server of remotely acceptable quality for anyone who's ever actually played the real game. The other servers are clunky and poorly coded with tons of obvious bugs. Basically giving out the source rewards people who don't work hard and makes their servers more popular than they should be, in relation to the amount of effort they put in.

Your whole preconception of how popular a server "should be" aside, I fail to see how running a P99 clone could be construed as any kind of reward. Do you really think a significant chunk of Project 1999 players would jump ship to a server that's always going to be at least a day behind? And even then, what does the person running the clone server have to gain from that? More whining petitions? Woo.

As for the second point -- have you ever heard of patent laws? The whole point of measures like those is to increase competition and encourage innovation. In the case of P99, not giving out the source is a good policy because it means devs of other servers are forced to come up with fixes of their own rather than waiting on nilbog to do it for them eventually.

You're right that patents were created to increase competition and innovation, but what you're missing is that they do that by forcing people to publicly document and disclose the invention being patented. We have patents because innovation and competition are severely stifled when inventions and solutions to problems are kept strictly secret.

Take, for example "devs of other servers are forced to come up with fixes of their own rather than waiting on nilbog to do it for them eventually," and your anecdote about instruments not working. P99 has figured out how to fix that. Other servers haven't. What is gained by forcing the other servers' devs to figure out their own fix?

Or, more simply, what part of the invention of the wheel is so important that you think it's good to make everyone do it for themselves?

tl;dr I think P99 would do well to go (partially?) open-source

[mitic]

I kinda doubt they'd want to split the population between 2 servers right at the moment.

now we are finaly comin up with the real reasons why they dont want to start a pvp server :p

[Chanus]

Forcing the people who did all the hard work to make it available to anyone is a disincentive to do any more work. What do they gain by having every schmuck with an idea trying to host a variation of their product, leeching off their work and their playerbase?

I say this as someone who would love to see a P99-type server hosted that doesn't have such retarded views on multi-boxing.

If you want it, make it yourself... just like they did.

[mitic]

seeing all those ppl arguing against a pvp server is a good sign how viable a pvp server would be

they are all scared to lose a good portion of the playerbase i tell you

[poncho]

Forcing the people who did all the hard work to make it available to anyone is a disincentive to do any more work. What do they gain by having every schmuck with an idea trying to host a variation of their product, leeching off their work and their playerbase?

I say this as someone who would love to see a P99-type server hosted that doesn't have such retarded views on multi-boxing.

If you want it, make it yourself... just like they did.

hahahahah aha ha ahahahha aha haahahahahahahah aahahhahahahahahahaha

[Yak]

Forcing the people who did all the hard work to make it available to anyone is a disincentive to do any more work. What do they gain by having every schmuck with an idea trying to host a variation of their product, leeching off their work and their playerbase?

I say this as someone who would love to see a P99-type server hosted that doesn't have such retarded views on multi-boxing.

If you want it, make it yourself... just like they did.

EXACTLY!!! The smart thing to do would have been to send Rogean or Nilog a private message asking them about this. Like I said before I doubt you would get high enough of a population that even wants to do Classic EQ PVP. I think it's nice of someone to offer their services but just because one person wants it doesn't mean anyone will play on it. I could go on and list the reasons of why PVP Classic is not for everyone but that's another topic and I don't care that much.

[nilbog]

Nilog ... Nolog

These are variations of my name I haven't seen before. nilborg and niblig are the most common.


tl;dr I think P99 would do well to go (partially?) open-source

EQEMU is open source. That's as partial as it's going to get. If someone wants to help us, they can download from the public, open-source eqemu repositories and make submissions.

[Chanus]

hahahahah aha ha ahahahha aha haahahahahahahah aahahhahahahahahahaha

Riveting counterpoint, my good man. I shall sincerely reexamine my position based upon your thoughtful response.

[Dr4z3r]

EQEMU is open source. That's as partial as it's going to get. If someone wants to help us, they can download from the public, open-source eqemu repositories and make submissions.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation, but wouldn't that be essentially starting from scratch? It seems like it would take a titanic effort (roughly equal to all the work already done on P99) to make any helpful contribution.

But then I'm no coder, so it's not like I can pledge I'd give you any help even if you did go open-source.

[poncho]

Riveting counterpoint, my good man. I shall sincerely reexamine my position based upon your thoughtful response.

Let me spell it out for ya. You are an idiot.

[Dr4z3r]

I say this as someone who would love to see a P99-type server hosted that doesn't have such retarded views on multi-boxing.

If you want it, make it yourself... just like they did.

Epic subtle troll, or actually that oblivious? I can't tell...

[poncho]

Epic subtle troll, or actually that oblivious? I can't tell...

Sadly, it's the latter.

[Chanus]

Epic subtle troll, or actually that oblivious? I can't tell...

Oblivious, apparently.

I'm not sure what you're reading into what I wrote.

[Dr4z3r]

Oblivious, apparently.

I'm not sure what you're reading into what I wrote.

Well... you said "I'd love to have a P99-type server" with different policies, and then said "if you want something, make it yourself." It's a classic example of not following your own advice.

[Chanus]

Well... you said "I'd love to have a P99-type server" with different policies, and then said "if you want something, make it yourself." It's a classic example of not following your own advice.

Not entirely what I meant.

I don't have the requisite skills or free time to make the server I want, so I settle with the one that is. My point was that I don't expect they would have any reason to hand me a copy of their hard work so that I could just plug it in and say, "Hai guys! Come play on my server now!"

[freakyuno]

I think my original intent needs to be made clear here, as it seems I've spured several tangent discussions.


1.) I was not asking for any source, private IP, or to have the p99 code / db handed to me for my own use. I simply was offering hardware to the dev's if THEY were interested in this path.

2.) I was not trying to start a "pvp" movement, and I accept the answer of the dev's / admins that if they wanted to do this - they dont have resource issues and dont need help

3.) I did not send a PM, because it's possible, and likely that this information and / or suggestion will be thought of by someone else and they may benefit from this information. I fully understand that my statement is dependant on them actually "finding" this information using the search function, which in many cases is also not likely.

[Hasbinbad]

niblig
Hey, that's MY line!! :P

[Salty]

Hey Guys, thought I'd toss this out there:

I was an EQ player for longer than I care to count, and have been an Emu player on and off since the project got what I would call "stable"

Generally I prefer PVP to Blue servers, but it's an opinion, and everyone is entitled to his or her own preference. The reason I'm bringing this up is because I love the idea of Project 1999 but for me - it's missing the PvP aspect, and I'm sorry guys, flagging Red a PoD isnt the same. lol

In the spirit of helping to be part of my own solution. I have the ability to host a server, with very little desire to setup, develop or configure one from scratch.

What I'm offering:
4 Cores (of a 16 core Xeon box @ 2.8ghz)
4 to 16gb of Ram (depending on needs)
Unlimited hard drive space (as it relates to the project)
Windows Server 2008, 2003 or Linux installation (as it suits your needs)
50mb / 50mb dedicated fiber internet connection with direct routable address.

What I'd like to see is the Project 1999 code, in a PvP server version mirrored for thoes that enjoy and want to live in a PvP world. You keep your name, branding, admin control, GM control..etc

Just opening the topic up for brainstorming.

Good luck bro!!!!!!!! The more people offering their resources for the greater goal of getting a legit server going with pvp may allow us to get what we are looking for. There are a lot of people offering their resources to get a big old school pvp thing going.

I just hope that Nilbog and Rogean understand that increasing the options bring a much wider following. Keeping it closed when there are just regular dudes being staff and inciting DDOS & private info public, instead of something like, re-writing the zone server to stop shitting all over itself.

Our agenda and intent is simple, We have pals that push Eqemu code to the limit, there is a huge following. Help us out, we have quests/item databases in great condition. Eqemu will evolve at a much faster rate.

Everything else is utter shit that Daxum and all the dumbasses afterwards ruined and created loopholes/exploits instead of fixes. Look at what he contributed to the community? An utter piece of shit gutted from anything that was helpful to the greater community. The only reason why we have it is because their GM Searyx dumped the server and sent it to us before Gronkus closed the box. We want a p99 contribution in which we can continue the greater effort of the emulation community.


Secrets is a nice guy and all, but the PvP community is getting shit on Eqemu-Wide. Vile is an insanely huge supporter of PvP, regardless if he is just some kid.

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32404

[Auchae]

Would definately jump to a well run PvP server.

This server is great, no offense.

It's just boring the hell out of me lately. I switched to PvP for a little while after the years of PvE grind started to make me yawn and it was tons of fun.

I really do think there is a decent size player base wanting PvP.

[Blazed420]

Make redname players able to do everything a blue can do...just plus pvp with other reds. Same population...everyone gets what they want.

[Salty]

Make redname players able to do everything a blue can do...just plus pvp with other reds. Same population...everyone gets what they want.

Bluebies healing/buffing reds is the issue.

[Auchae]

The current GMs aren't going to deal with those issues. There should be a whole new GM who knows all the coding and is dedicated to fixing the PvP issues such as the one you listed, Salty.

It could work.

What about this guy

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32488

[Blazed420]

Same issue as youd have on a pvp system....someone healing your opponent is possible. Would just have to have more people backing you up i guess. Idk better than no pvp at all? you decide.

[Cyrius]

The current GMs aren't going to deal with those issues. There should be a whole new GM who knows all the coding and is dedicated to fixing the PvP issues such as the one you listed, Salty.

It could work.

What about this guy

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32488

Yeah sure let me setup the invitro box ... oh wait wrong universe.

[Auchae]

Wonder if theres a way to set a timer on something like that.

For example, after being attacked or attacking another player, for the next 10-30 mins (dunno what a good amount of time is) you are flagged as a redname would be on a blue server (no healing, buffing, etc.). Could easily be used to grief people I suppose, but who gives a shit. It's PvP.

[Blazed420]

^this^

[Daywolf]

and have been an Emu player on and off since the project got what I would call "stable"
Stable on Project 1999 or the EQEMU in general. We had a pvp server in the circuit before P99. ded. Guess you missed it ;)
It was stable then too, and was a mod using the same old art assets type used here now. Did ok for a while, then the population faded.

[Pico]

the shitty, whiny, ingrateful PVE playerbase here has already tried their hardest to destroy this server many times over. multiply that shittiness by 10 and son you have yourself a PVP playerbase and hoo boy you're in for a hell of a ride i tell you what

[SVentura]

Keeping it closed when there are just regular dudes being staff


I am picturing some server being staffed by a group of Cyclops or something. Some really, really NON-regular dudes pwning the shit out of petition queues and such.

Or maybe Predator GMs or something. That'd be tiiiiiight!

~Olly the Druid~

[Salty]

I am picturing some server being staffed by a group of Cyclops or something. Some really, really NON-regular dudes pwning the shit out of petition queues and such.

Or maybe Predator GMs or something. That'd be tiiiiiight!

~Olly the Druid~

We need people on the Eqemu project building empires is my point. There is a lot of work that needs to be done that isn't, is the problem. Issues to the core of the product need to be addressed; maximizing your work force is the solution. Servers like P99, vztz, and others contribute to the greater goal of keeping legitimate EQ going, because Sony sure has heck won't. We just need to keep lobbying our efforts.

We are going to have 100 people at once pvping in a zone over one individual target. Don't think for a second we aren't going to be optimizing for stability at a much higher standard than pve servers available at this point.

Server was going to be big. Ideas were up there. Prolly wont see a server like this again. (Qeynos vs Freeport)


Glad to see you're back, it was really fun to work with you and learn from you, but I think this experience killed my will to do anything EQ related.

that server was just what the EQEmu PvP community needed and wanted

I'll admit I was kind of upset when I woke up to find the server gone, tons of players hitting me up, and having no answers for them.

[mitic]

Everything else is utter shit that Daxum and all the dumbasses afterwards ruined and created loopholes/exploits instead of fixes. Look at what he contributed to the community? An utter piece of shit gutted from anything that was helpful to the greater community. The only reason why we have it is because their GM Searyx dumped the server and sent it to us before Gronkus closed the box. We want a p99 contribution in which we can continue the greater effort of the emulation community.

you sir, are an ingrate piece of shit. without daxum you would have never been able to play together with your zerg friends on vztz. voidd, searyx and gronkus are a different story but keep daxum outa this

go back into your trollcavern

[Salty]

you sir, are an ingrate piece of shit. without daxum you would have never been able to play together with your zerg friends on vztz. voidd, searyx and gronkus are a different story but keep daxum outa this

go back into your trollcavern

His server wasn't really all that stable nor clear of exploits so, k bro. Go go Daxum thx for the box that no one has any use for anymore.

I did have fun on his server, but I attribute that more towards the skill of people above Dax that made it happen. We have Rogean on this server, so it's pretty much a hard sell on me that vztz has the ability to do anything beyond basic remedial tasks.

[Rogean]

Don't think for a second we aren't going to be optimizing for stability at a much higher standard than pve servers available at this point.

With how much both Haynar and I have pushed for improved stability in this code, and how much we've done with it toward that end, no other server can compare.

[Salty]

With how much both Haynar and I have pushed for improved stability in this code, and how much we've done with it toward that end, no other server can compare.

This is absolute truth, and I've experienced it first hand. Which is why we would like to extend this project to legit pvp as the contributions that you guys have made to the overall project would help us achieve our goal at a reasonable rate.

I believe that with the amount of people who will be trying every small means to exploit, packet attack, crash zones, and dupe; that more fixes will be in place that otherwise wouldn't stick out in a pve environment. Competition just isn't that intense on PvE. I know I've found a few devastating sploits on vztz that I've come to find on p99 that I otherwise wouldn't for the sole fact I wanted to get ahead faster than anyone else. There is a much bigger drive to find loopholes in EVERYTHING when your ass is on the line, competing 24/7 in ruthless PvP. When you fuck up, there is a good chance you won't have your shit for the next 6 hours.

I guess it really comes down to, is Eqemu a community project or separated into cliques? There are plenty that would like to offer their time to hard-code for the overall Eqemu value so we can keep playing without disruption or personal quirks that undermine advancement.

[Itchybottom]

I guess it really comes down to, is Eqemu a community project or separated into cliques? There are plenty that would like to offer their time to hard-code for the overall Eqemu value so we can keep playing without disruption or personal quirks that undermine advancement.

EQEMU is definitely more segmented now than it used to be. Quite a few project forks have happened that don't release their source code/database to the public until the server is long dead. A big sense of entitlement and egotism is usually at fault, but other times there are legitimate reasons (like fearing Sony, or having a cheat detection system that you want to be kept secret.) There's also the problem of no one agreeing on a database to work on and compare results. Some prefer PEQ, others Angelox, and then others still are spinning off of the base projects but changing things so radically, it's hard to import the trunk changes of the original project.

Angelox being a one man operation is pretty cool, I think trevius also does his own thing by himself and gets stuff done. The big servers always have a team, and they always act like their fixes and their code are the holy grail. Then you have people like KingMort, that constantly rope in developers to help the project but ultimately take credit for the majority of it.

There aren't many cliques in EQEMU anymore. Occasionally an old "clique" will resurface and try to take over the project (Image/devn00b/tcsmyworld) and cause a stir which polarizes the community pretty bad and adds to the pre-existing segmentation.

A lot of EQEMU (world server inparticular) needs to be completely thrown out and re-written. Code analytics and performance profiling only takes you so far before your foundation is inherently the problem. Maintenance programming isn't what is needed here, you'll need actual development and constant debug output to maintain a PVP server that doesn't die in a year. Which leads to more hardware requirements, and a lot of paid or volunteer work. Simply sharing the p99 code base with a sister PVP server would cause a lot of communications problems and drag on the parent project, unless the dev team had the time/resources shared per side. I just don't see it happening until nilbog finalizes his server.

[Salty]

Good post, this line struck out to me the most.


A lot of EQEMU (world server inparticular) needs to be completely thrown out and re-written

World/Zone server is absolutely atrocious beyond all means. Many have expressed interest in working on these problems, and what you described gives a well point of view of "The Situation."

It really puts a damper on pvp guys like Vile who is developing on top of complete shit, and an Eqemu forum staff guy ruins his project setting him back to square 1. One less evangelist with a following, burnt out on trying to get a stable pvp server out of beta; let alone free of exploits.

P99 is at the core of the entire Eqemu project in terms of any popular form of measurement, remember that.

[Kazowi]

EQemu needs stable legit pvp.

Emperor Rexx supports this message.

[mitic]

everyone on his knees, rexx has spoken

[Prince]

EQemu needs stable legit pvp.


Agree wholeheartedly.

[mitic]

"prince" is bringing back bad memories....

[Knuckle]

Hey pals, Salty has pointed out the technical and rational argument for 'why' you should have a legit pvp server. I'm here to point out the irrational and more fun reasons why you should.

PVP is fun as fuck, most of the bluebies on this server are like virgins and need to get fucked, then they will love it. They will be redbees. And you will provide the ultimate playground for them. It will entice new players. The fact that you offer a blue and red server of legit/classic quality with a slow leveling pace will create the ultimate emu monopoly. You will entice more developers and expand your horizons. But mostly, you will entice me to play, and the celebrity factor of the drunken wheelchair monk. I guarantee all the lurking players on the VZTZ forum, which numbers in the 100s im sure, who aren't playing, would all LEAP at a peq99 pvp server. I like vz/tz. Its fun. But a PEQ99 server with the amount of players you push each night is pure win. bring that win to a new level, like wheaties in chocolate milk, no fuck that, like BACON in chocolate milk, becuase bacon makes everthing better, like sex, bacon sex; that's what a PEQ pvp server is. do it.

[Blazed420]

this^ and wheaties in chocolate milk is fucking amazing...thought i was the only one that did that.

[Salty]

The eqemu community is going to be stuck with their weiners in their hand when Sony sees P99 as competition to their new progression server in Q1-Q2 of 2011.

What are we going to do if, god forbid, P99 is no longer an option?

You're going to lose the entire playerbase because there is little options available.

Don't hurt the Eqemu community, let it grow. Listen to the PvP celebs who posted above, they know their shit and have the history. We want stability, provide us with the option bros.

[Titanuk]

i am here to agree that EQ pvp is great and emperor salty is doing his best to help make everyone happy.. lot more people love eq pvp than you think

[Titanuk]

Lots of people are wanting a good active pvp server with high population, some GMs like Keegan and Sirken on vztz have done a good job and maybe u guys could come to some agreement or something.. maybe make a copy of P99 with their chars but make it a pvp server to see how they like it but still keep the ORginal p99 up incase they indeed hate pvp

[Agecroft]

doubtful.

[Rogean]

Maybe help us get Kunark complete and we'll consider opening a second, classic only pvp server.

[tetragrammaton]

!

[freakyuno]

Maybe help us get Kunark complete and we'll consider opening a second, classic only pvp server.

How can we help? Would love to jump in where needed.

[Chanus]

How can we help? Would love to jump in where needed.

The Beta server is up.

Log in and Beta.

[freakyuno]

The Beta server is up.

Log in and Beta.

I'm newer to the server than the Beta copy, so I'd be very little help on that server, having to level from 1-50 first.

[Chanus]

I'm newer to the server than the Beta copy, so I'd be very little help on that server, having to level from 1-50 first.

Leveling 1-50 is just as important a part of the Kunark experience as leveling 50-60. Everybody can help.

[Knuckle]

I'm newer to the server than the Beta copy, so I'd be very little help on that server, having to level from 1-50 first.

give me a level 60 ill run around and try out quests and shit, easiest way to beta test quests and raid mobs and hard camps is to basically give some individuals GM like status. Ive been playing on vz/tz kunark for like 3 years, I could probably name 10 things in kunark that need fixed on your server without even looking. PM me if you are serious about wanting beta testing done, I can find a host of issues. if you look through my post history on vztz I've pointed out over 100 bugs/exploits during my tenure, a true white knight getting pvp and pve exploits fixed since 2007.

[Rais]

I feel this will turn it around for Vanguar err I mean, Kunark beta. A extra 10 people will help.

[mitic]

I feel this will turn it around for Vanguar err I mean, Kunark beta. A extra 10 people will help.

glad to have those perfectionists

[Salty]

Maybe help us get Kunark complete and we'll consider opening a second, classic only pvp server.

You know who has our complete quest/item database from Kunark. Save months on implementation, and it goes straight to testing content. "Consider" isn't really all that big of a promise, but it's better than nothing.

We all want to get this project going. P99 Kunark, PvP with p99 source; why can't we come with a solid compromise to increase our reach to the Everquest community? There is no shady agenda, pretty much cut and dry.

When you say "we'll consider opening a second" does that mean you have absolutely no intention of releasing source ? How much staff do you really have to go through just to find people that can speed up the process of securing and optimizing all levels of the base-product?

Because I'll tell you right now, there are exploits/bugs that are current on P99 that need to be fixed at a reasonable rate. PvP users find these much faster than PvE, power users enhance content and improve the product. I was blue once too, so I remember being naive.

[Titanuk]

i personally wont play any other games because nothing is the same as EQ pvp and i know alot of people feel the same way

[Knuckle]

I guarantee you that server would break 300 on launch day with a one week notice.

[Daywolf]

i personally wont play any other games because nothing is the same as EQ pvp and i know alot of people feel the same wayi<3bf2142^_^
:D

[Titanuk]

Were is Robie Rhiza Ghostfaced Xyros frosst at?
www.juggz-eq.com

[pojab]

PvP99 - make it so.

- HPT

[Titanuk]

Looks like P99 PvP is the way to go for Emu Progression dont make it classic only tho, people want to play velious kunark

[Salty]

Looks like P99 PvP is the way to go for Emu Progression dont make it classic only tho, people want to play velious kunark

You know those fights over manastone camp got epic.

You needed a crew of 2 groups to defend.

[Smedyx]

I fully support the wipe...

Thread needs more Dankenstein to make this reality

[Goobles]

Maybe help us get Kunark complete and we'll consider opening a second, classic only pvp server.

WTB Kunark BETA server?

[Goobles]

Oh, and do you think this is such a good idea? I only ask because, I know what a headache people have given you here...

[Prince]

I guarantee you that server would break 300 on launch day with a one week notice.

This. There are still big communities that would play an eq server (TZT etc) that don't play vztz because of wipes, terrible gms, etc.

[Titanuk]

You know those fights over manastone camp got epic.

You needed a crew of 2 groups to defend.

i would play

[Auchae]

I'd like to help with Kunark beta considering the server isn't as fun as it once was. When is the beta server coming back up?

[jeffd]

There are still big communities that would play an eq server (TZT etc) that don't play vztz because of wipes, terrible gms, etc.

i know at least 10 or so bros that would come back for the chance to lace up their ripping boots

[ooantipostoo]

Hey Guys, thought I'd toss this out there:

I was an EQ player for longer than I care to count, and have been an Emu player on and off since the project got what I would call "stable"

Generally I prefer PVP to Blue servers, but it's an opinion, and everyone is entitled to his or her own preference. The reason I'm bringing this up is because I love the idea of Project 1999 but for me - it's missing the PvP aspect, and I'm sorry guys, flagging Red a PoD isnt the same. lol

In the spirit of helping to be part of my own solution. I have the ability to host a server, with very little desire to setup, develop or configure one from scratch.

What I'm offering:
4 Cores (of a 16 core Xeon box @ 2.8ghz)
4 to 16gb of Ram (depending on needs)
Unlimited hard drive space (as it relates to the project)
Windows Server 2008, 2003 or Linux installation (as it suits your needs)
50mb / 50mb dedicated fiber internet connection with direct routable address.

What I'd like to see is the Project 1999 code, in a PvP server version mirrored for thoes that enjoy and want to live in a PvP world. You keep your name, branding, admin control, GM control..etc

Just opening the topic up for brainstorming.

You getting the P99 code.....LMAO good luck.

I really enjoy PvP but it comes down to the fact that hacking / cheating comes with it. Can't be avoided this is why I left the Zek server on live, it's a mess right now and I really don't think the GM's want to add to there stress / work.

[Knuckle]

You'd get 50+ people easy to help test kunark bugs if there was a guarantee on a PVP server, sounds like your just trying to exploit hopes right now big rogean, and i deal in dreams not slavery.

[Chanus]

You'd get 50+ people easy to help test kunark bugs if there was a guarantee on a PVP server, sounds like your just trying to exploit hopes right now big rogean, and i deal in dreams not slavery.

You're making statements as if he could give a shit whether or not you get what you want.

Jus sayin.

[Knuckle]

You're making statements as if he could give a shit whether or not you get what you want.

Jus sayin.

Glad you can speak for big Rogean there pal, I see you are a big deal on p99 so I'll just direct all further statements to you via PM, sound good? Deal.

[Daywolf]

hmmm... well I don't know. I mean if you guys came in saying that EQEMU and P99 have been amazing projects or whatever (as I believe it has been), that we are ready for such a server, you might sell me on the PvP server idea. But that seems furthest from what has been presented here. You guys would probably wind up in bitter arguments amongst yourselves and vapor the server/project; have seen this happen on a number of occasions with indie dev projects. Think I'd opt out of being involved or even playing :o

[Knuckle]

hmmm... well I don't know. I mean if you guys came in saying that EQEMU and P99 have been amazing projects or whatever (as I believe it has been), that we are ready for such a server, you might sell me on the PvP server idea. But that seems furthest from what has been presented here. You guys would probably wind up in bitter arguments amongst yourselves and vapor the server/project; have seen this happen on a number of occasions with indie dev projects. Think I'd opt out of being involved or even playing :o

your trolling will not sabotage the most glorious dream classic everquest has ever known, most of us are in different guilds posting in this thread united in a belief.

[Daywolf]

your trolling will not sabotage the most glorious dream classic everquest has ever known, most of us are in different guilds posting in this thread united in a belief.
Oh yeah, that convinced me of the good intentions, uh-huh. I rest my case.

[Knuckle]

Oh yeah, that convinced me of the good intentions, uh-huh. I rest my case.

good intentions? It's a pvp server that would be awesome, who said anything about intentions?

[Daywolf]

good intentions? It's a pvp server that would be awesome, who said anything about intentions?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intention

[Knuckle]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intention

Are you trying to say there's a conspiracy behind suggesting a PVP server with P99 source? Or do you just use words in the wrong context trying to be clever?

[jeffd]

I really enjoy PvP but it comes down to the fact that hacking / cheating comes with it.

if you think p99 isn't filled with people using seq/mq right now, you're hopelessly naive

also, what's with all the nobodies coming out of the woodwork hating on pvp and trying to speak for the devs? if you don't like chocolate milk don't drink it bros, but don't hate if you see me sippin

[Titanuk]

i really dont see the problem with giving the code out for a pvp server? i mean lots of people want this to happen and im sure if this thread was on vztz u would see over 500 replys saying they would play if they did it big

[Knuckle]

It's not about giving the code out, I don't really care how a P99 PVP server happens, as long as it does. Such large things would happen my mind explodes, the devs here have no CLUE how many inactive players from vztz would leap into this idea. Searyx could round up a good 60 or 70 alone. Salty 100+. Me and emperor rexx would spark haters across the emu universe to slay our pixels, nothing bad can come of this.

[Titanuk]

im just a random noob but i would love to play on a pvp server with you bros

[mitic]

i really dont see the problem with giving the code out for a pvp server? i mean lots of people want this to happen and im sure if this thread was on vztz u would see over 500 replys saying they would play if they did it big

They wont give out the source and thats ok since i want a srsly hosted server and not a new half assed garagebox 5.0

Rogean please make our dream come trueeeee!

[Cyrius]

i really dont see the problem with giving the code out for a pvp server? i mean lots of people want this to happen and im sure if this thread was on vztz u would see over 500 replys saying they would play if they did it big

Oh right, i realy see no problem in you giving your bank account data out either. I mean you worked for it, but obviously its public property. I am sure if this information would be out you would see over 500 people accessing your account too!

[jeffd]

They wont give out the source and thats ok since i want a srsly hosted server and not a new half assed garagebox 5.0

same, the box was fun for a while but its time has come and gone

the only way 99.9% of retired eqemu pvpers would come back is if the emperors at p99 were running the show, but i really don't think they've got the time/drive

we need an eccentric billionaire to hire these dudes full time and fund this thing tbh

[JayDee]

Oh right, i realy see no problem in you giving your bank account data out either. I mean you worked for it, but obviously its public property. I am sure if this information would be out you would see over 500 people accessing your account too!

You sunk the titanuk

*rimshot*

[Salty]

Oh right, i realy see no problem in you giving your bank account data out either. I mean you worked for it, but obviously its public property. I am sure if this information would be out you would see over 500 people accessing your account too!

Not the same thing.

I would appreciate it if you stay out of this thread because of your asinine comment.

When Sony feels like this server is competition for them, you'll wish there was more options. But then again, I plan on playing Sony:Prog in about 2-3 months.


It's not like your staff, Cyrius, have the ability to code faster than players can exploit, dupe, crash zones, and crash the server. Do you think every single thing you are coding ontop of with the Eqemu project was made by your staff? There were others before you that did bigger things for the community to stay alive. It just so happens that Rogean/Nilbog is in a unique position to expand content on Eqemu.


"Make sense" by attributing P99 to a financial organization, you must be retarded... <3

[mitic]

it would be the worst thing ever to make the p99 source code public and they definitely will never do that in theirs but also in our own interest.

rogean, id pay for a pvp server, monthly.

But then again, I plan on playing Sony:Prog in about 2-3 months.

you wont. you know it, i know it, we all know it.

[Salty]

it would be the worst thing ever to make the p99 source code public and they definitely will never do that in theirs but also in our own interest.

rogean, id pay for a pvp server, monthly.



you wont, you know it, i know it, we all know it.

Egotism, some people just don't know how to grow an organization.

You know what...Salty is responsible for growing a web property from 150k-9 million unique people every month.

Cambridge, Mass-based GuildCafe, the creator of social networking tools for online game players, has acquired Uberguilds, a Portland-based network of online gaming communities. Terms of the deal were not disclosed. The two sites already had an agreement dating back to April for GuildCafe’s technology to power the communities at Uberguilds

The site, which was formerly known as GuildCafe, had previously raised $600,000 in seed money from Flybridge last year, for a total raise of $3.6 million (note: Flybridge was then known as IDG ventures… yes, lots of name changing going on here). Also last year, the site expanded its network via the acquisition of Uberguilds, a network of online game communities.
http://paidcontent.org/article/419-guildcafe-acquires-uberguilds-to-expand-network-of-gamers/
http://paidcontent.org/article/419-social-net-gamerdna-raises-3-million-first-round-changes-name-from-guil/

Look what happened to it now, right under MTV and above IGN.

http://poopspant.com/eq/comscore.png

Safe to say I know more than the staff about growing internet properties from the base-level. It would be nice if SOMEONE listened to the Emperor every once in awhile. If you don't make pvp available, I assure you, you won't like the results over time.

[Pico]

You're comparing a for-profit company with a volunteer dev team. This isn't a business (and for legal reasons never will be), it's a community run server.

I don't really think the staff cares about your business prowess.

[Cyrius]

Not the same thing.

I would appreciate it if you stay out of this thread because of your asinine comment.

When Sony feels like this server is competition for them, you'll wish there was more options. But then again, I plan on playing Sony:Prog in about 2-3 months.


It's not like your staff, Cyrius, have the ability to code faster than players can exploit, dupe, crash zones, and crash the server. Do you think every single thing you are coding ontop of with the Eqemu project was made by your staff? There were others before you that did bigger things for the community to stay alive. It just so happens that Rogean/Nilbog is in a unique position to expand content on Eqemu.


"Make sense" by attributing P99 to a financial organization, you must be retarded... <3

So how do you figure this is different? You used your body / mind to produce that money with work. In this case, the mind was used to produce code wich is also work. Another note, this is not "my" staff, it is Nilbog's. It does not matter if something similiar was done by someone else before. The issue here is that the P99 staff made those modifications and it is their property of mind. Property is property, no matter if physical or digital.

Oh and if SoE feels threatened they will shut down the whole EQEmu and probably not just selected servers.

Enjoy your 2 weeks cool down by the way. Sincerely your retard.

[Knuckle]

Salty banned? Might as well hang up the p99 pvp towel their making it clear they wont put in a pvp server despite it being a logical and intelligent decision.

[jeffd]

i'm not really sure why some people think making things opensource is a bad idea for emu communities. if the folks at eqemu hadn't made their material available as opensource to nilbog et al, p99 would never even have been started in the first place. you're standing on the shoulders of giants and forgetting you aren't that tall on your own.

like father salty said (r.i.p), the devs have done a massive amount of amazing work and as a result are in a unique position to contribute to the eqemu-pvp project as a whole, for which (and despite what some misinformed angsty nerds keep repeating) there is a massive community. how and if they choose to go about helping is up to the devs, but some of us are just trying to help them see why it's a good idea to contribute to eqemu-pvp.

also, there's no need to get antsy - just have a calm/logical discussion so this thread doesn't end in a bunch of "cooldowns". no need to get worked up over a video games brosefs~

[yaaaflow]

If ya'll PvP dudes want a new pvp server so bad, and there's so many people who want to play it, and you guys all bring SO much to the table in terms of management/programming/testing/whatever skills... why don't you guys just get to work and make it? Why do you need to have the p99 devs hold your hands thru the process? idgi

[jeffd]

If ya'll PvP dudes want a new pvp server so bad, and there's so many people who want to play it, and you guys all bring SO much to the table in terms of management/programming/testing/whatever skills... why don't you guys just get to work and make it? Why do you need to have the p99 devs hold your hands thru the process? idgi

because that's exactly what "y'all pve dudes" did to get p99 up and running right. thanks for popping into the thread bud.

not really sure why hating pvp and making "YEAH YOU TELL EM" posts after a dev says something is fashionable on this board

[Peppa]

Why do you need to have the p99 devs hold your hands thru the process? idgi

The codebase is so terrible that it would take at least a year to get to where P99 is today.

Like Jeffd said,

you're standing on the shoulders of giants and forgetting you aren't that tall on your own.



Peppa misses pvp, egos are too high for their own good. Stupidity is rampant, Eqemu community is getting shut off from the leaders for the sake of proprietary management.

[yaaaflow]

So the p99 devs should hand over their source code, with all the potential problems that entails for this server, so that ya'll have to do less work to make a pvp server?

so what do they get out of this?

[Cyrius]

So you are saying just because the work was based on someone elses work, that 2 years developement time that happened here is worth nothing? So like 80% of the currently registered patents are void, since someone else did the ground work for others?

I realy do not understand you guys, how can you be so arrogant and belive everyone HAS to cater to you right here right now?

If you want it so bad, create it your self. But don't whine just because someone else that is ahead of you will not help you out with their source.

[Peppa]

2 years developement time that happened here is worth nothing?

Are you serious bro.

The whole discussion is that this project would be perfect for pvp. Stable pvp doesn't exist anywhere.

The development put in on this server is not only important but PARAMOUNT to the overall health of Eqemu.

This server's code is PARAMOUNT to the eqemu community.

The current staff is pushed hard on time to be able to work on this project let alone what sony may or may not do when they drop the ball on progression 2.0.

I don't see how pvp is going to be an option for the next 3 years due to constraints which have been provided to the community in the form of Eqemu server code that is out-date.

[Cyrius]

But this is Project 1999, not EQEmulator. That is what you do not seem to understand. No one here owes you a PvP server.

[Peppa]

But this is Project 1999, not EQEmulator. That is what you do not seem to understand. No one here owes you a PvP server.

I apologize that you THINK your server is not affiliated solely and directly by the owner of the Eqemu project, but that's the reality.

Nilbog is the leader and director, I agree. But Rogean is the biggest reason why P99 is relevant.

The people before Rogean is what made today possible.

The community keeps you going.


Don't shit on community (pvp).

[Peppa]

I base this off the reason that I know more than you about longevity of holding and growing communities.

You should base it off how many PvP Bosses have been spawned in this very thread that MAKE a pvp server fun to play on.

I think there is much more thought that needs to take place with the staff instead of "lol you take my code? lol fag."

[Cyrius]

Sorry but that makes no sense. Just because Rogean is part of both projects, does not make them affiliated. The Project 1999 Server is Nilbogs project, so it is his decision if the source is released or used in any other way.

Anyway, this discussion is moot since in the end it is up to Nilbog and he already said the source will not be made public at the moment. So either wait until this changes and accept the fact that the current focus is on Project 1999 (PvE), or create a similiar project your self.

[Cyrius]

I base this off the reason that I know more than you about longevity of holding and growing communities.

So how do you figure you know more then me? Do you know me? This shows how full of your self you realy are.

[Peppa]

the current focus is on Project 1999 (PvE)

If you guys spend months on getting Kunark quests / items done when I have been offering resources for, god knows how long, I'm going to rage pretty hard.

The problem I see is that for EVERYONE to play on a more stable codebase you need a larger force to work on it. P99 is damn good, but it still has dupes, zone crashes, server crashes, and packet exploits.

There is HUGE problems with the codebase. So incredibly huge that P99 wouldn't even be stable for mass pvp to happen.

We want the code to free open to ADVANCE the power of the code. To make it less sploity. For zone servers not to crash, to make an even play-field for all pvpers.

The "What do we get out of it" is not a server in which people can dupe whatever the hell they want, and there being 20 different ways to do it. Crashing the server, and there being 10 different ways to do it.

[Peppa]

So how do you figure you know more then me? Do you know me? This shows how full of your self you realy are.

Because I built a gaming network that as of October 2010 grew bigger than IGN and right below MTV.

So ya, kinda a big deal around the internet.


Mostly using it to troll you so calm down. Seriously; wtf pvp?

[Cyrius]

OH NOES!!! Everyone down on their knees, we have a "big deal" here!! *yawn* Yeah im not impressed.

[Peppa]

OH NOES!!! Everyone down on their knees, we have a "big deal" here!! *yawn* Yeah im not impressed.

WTB P99 server, will increase stability of Eqemu x5.

[Rogean]

Cyrius, Nilbog is the founder but both of us make up the management of the server. Any large decisions are discussed and debated between us until a decision is reached. For the most part we have a common set of mind, and have common opinions on most situations.

If Nilbog feels strongly enough about something then I respect his decision, such as the release if the source and database. The opposite has been true in many situations where I felt strongly about something and he would respect my opinion.

I don't see us making the source public. There is too much proprietary changes for that, as well as systems being made public that would compromise our security and hacking detection methods.

The best chance you guys have is a pvp server operated by the current staff. Both Nilbog and I wouldn't mind running a pvp server, however you must understand that the desire for pve does outweigh pvp, and the current focus is on that and Kunark. PvP servers are also very tedious and stressful to run, as the player base is MUCH more difficult to work with.

This is why I said that maybe when Kunark is out and epics are close to done, we can consider a pvp server. However, to keep the main server the desirable one, we may limit the second server to classic.

Once again, this is not a promise or a garauntee to anything other than we will consider it.

[mitic]

However, to keep the main server the desirable one, we may limit the second server to classic.



i concur with everything u said except above quote. you cant change the mindset of players to make a pve server the desireable one. if they are pvpers by heart, they will stay pvpers forever...

just make a mirrored pvp server to the current one! it will be a win win situation and the influx of new players to your project1999 will double, mark my words

[Peppa]

This is why I said that maybe when Kunark is out and epics are close to done, we can consider a pvp server.

Bro

If you guys spend months on getting Kunark quests / items done when I have been offering resources for, god knows how long, I'm going to rage pretty hard.

Kunark is a complete mess, we can resolve it in 1 hour and get to testing.

[Pico]

Salt/Peppa you are literally why pvp servers fail, because of their consistently insufferable player base.

And the fact that you want P99's source so bad yet are doing your absolute worst at convincing them to make it open source by making yourself look like an arrogant, selfish douche is hilarious.

[nilbog]

So, when I started the project, I was new to eqemu. I played on vztz, ckv, peq, and then complexity. Then I was like WTF is wrong with this shit, and started making project1999. We, (original devs), were not programmers and hardly touched the source. That being said, it's safe to assume the content was the original allure of the server. That or the no boxing rule, hah. The source changes were few and far between, as it was nearly impossible to procure help with the source prior to launch.

Due to popularity, we then got a LOT more help. Rogean, Haynar, and every source developer thereafter. The source continuously improves, as does the content.

Is the 'content' you keep offering me from vztz? I don't want that shit. I wouldn't let it anywhere near my db.

If it is, then you might? know how complicated it would be to merge it with an existing proprietary database. It would be much fucking longer than 1 hour. If they have something fixed we do not, why don't you submit some fixes?

Which leads me to believe you don't care about the quality of the content.. you just want the source and don't care if its aligned with vztz content. (which is shit, no personal offense to them, thats just what we focused on.)

In closing, I like pvp. I would like to help run a 'fixed' pvp server. What I don't like.. is people trying to rationalize why we should give them things, when they have done no development.