Quick question on exp pen.

[xnolanx]

Does the racial penalties, say from a troll, effect the whole group when grouping if they are in the party or just the individual player... Heard this so much last night, and I always assumed that it was just the player who got the penalties and not his whole party if he is in the group with them..

[Ropethunder]

I believe racial, class, and hell penalties are all equally shared among the group.

[xnolanx]

... well shit

[Reantir]

There was a patch recently that discontinued the sharing of racial and hell level exp penalties with the group. You only get their class penalty now iirc...

Correction: Hell Level exp penalties were removed per patch notes, not racial penalties. My eyes be playin' tricks on me...

[Rhambuk]

Some sort of penalty is definitely shared.

I was grouped in solb a while back, our lvl 45 Ogre Sk (second lowest penalty I believe) and my 45 Halfling Rog (Second highest bonus) we were getting Equal exp.

Though there were 2 other hybrids in group so if class penalty is shared we may have just been brought down to a maximum penalty and been gaining minimum exp...

idfk

[jeffd]

so if there's six troll sks in a hypothetical group, would the group just have a fucking ridiculous penalty? or does the group only get a single troll-sk penalty applied to it?

this game is so hard omg

[Kassel]

It adds for each hybrid.

6 troll sk's is like haveing a group of 10 ppl exp wise !

[Estu]

The penalties are spread evenly throughout the group. If you have six troll SKs, the penalty is just the troll SK penalty (68%) with the full group bonus added on (10%), so it'll be something like a 58% penalty. If you have a group of five wood elf druids (no penalty or bonus) and a theoretical race+class that has a 60% penalty, then everyone has a 10% penalty, and as always the group bonus is factored in. I haven't heard of any recent P99 patch removing penalty sharing, but I'd be interested in any information/evidence about it. The premise of the penatly/bonus sharing is that everyone in the group should level equally fast, assuming you're the same level. I don't remember what's done when people of different levels are in the group, except that mob exp is calculated based on the highest-level person - so if it cons light blue to that person, you're gonna get reduced EXP from it.

[Yak]

Is there any proof of this? It makes so sense that a if you have one Troll in a group of humans that everyone takes an XP hit. If that's true then a full group of SK Troll's would get nothing. Personally when grouping, I have not noticed a slower XP gain because of this.

[Rhambuk]

There has to be some sort of shared penalty, theres no way a halfling rog and ogre sk would be gaining equal exp otherwise...

[Yak]

There has to be some sort of shared penalty, theres no way a halfling rog and ogre sk would be gaining equal exp otherwise...

That makes no sense what you said. Let's say we kill a mob that gives 100 XP, just making this up. With the 68% penalty for a Troll, you get 32 xp and with my +5%, I would get 105%. Why would that not work?

[Rhambuk]

Like I said at 45 as a halfling rog, +19% bonus I think halfling 10 rog 9, and ogre sk 68% penalty? or something.

Either way after so many kills hed call out he gained 1blue in the same time I had gained 1blue. So either shared group exp means = group exp at the same lvl or something is screwy because you would think halfling rog would gain more exp than ogre sk...

[Yak]

Can anyone clear this up?

[Rejuvenation]

Yes, class and race penalties are shared. Nobody will outlevel another player if they are grouped regardless of exp modifiers.

A patch was put in much to the chagrin of many of the players that implemented this. It is how live was until late velious when class penalties were removed.

[Dr4z3r]

Can anyone clear this up?

I don't see that anything is unclear: All exp penalties are split evenly among the group, so that any two characters of the same level in the same group will level at exactly the same rate.

[Sarkhan]

By Race:
Troll -20%
Iksar -20%
Ogre -15%
Barbarian -5%
Halfling +5%

By Class:
Paladin / Shadowknight / Ranger / Bard -40%
Monk -20%
Wizard / Magician / Enchanter / Necromancer -10%
Rogue +9%
Warrior +10%

Exp penalties are multiplied not added, so a troll sk would be (1.4 x 1.2 = 1.68 or 68% penalty)

That was taken from the FAQ page. If Pyrocat is correct about the listed Race / Class exp penalties/bonuses and if it is true that penalties are multiplied and not added then it looks good except the math does look a little odd to me. If lvling goes off anything like atk vs. slow/haste then a "normal" character lvls at a rate of 100% (1.00). A troll SK should be -20% X -40% --> 0.80 X 0.60 = 0.48. So in reality a Troll SK "should" be at a 48% penalty (and not 68%) making his lvling go at a rate of 52% compared to normal 100%.. So mob that gives 100 exp to human druid would give only 52 exp to troll SK.

Now how it goes when grouped I am less sure but I believe everyone "shares" the penalty. I'm going to ignore group bonus so a halfling warrior (1.05X1.10=1.155-->116%) grouped with a troll sk they would share their penalties/bonuses so (0.52X1.16=0.6032)... they'd be lvling at roughly 60% (0.60) of a "normal". Once again I'm not sure how group exp works but I think it'd go something along the lines of each person would get 60% of what half the mob's exp was. So mob that gives 100exp to solo human druid would be split into half to give half to halfling and half to troll.. but then you apply their penalties so (50 X 0.6= 30) 30 exp per kill. . . So grouping is very beneficial to hybrids since their exp doesn't quite get cut in half from adding a buddy (unless that buddy also has the penalty they do) but it does kinda suck for non-hybrids since adding 1 person cuts it in more than half.

If someone who knows how group exp works please correct me but I do believe I at least covered how you calculate race/class penalties.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

search posts by me for a full explanation. I don't feel like typing it all again.

[Dr4z3r]

If lvling goes off anything like atk vs. slow/haste then a "normal" character lvls at a rate of 100% (1.00). A troll SK should be -20% X -40% --> 0.80 X 0.60 = 0.48. So in reality a Troll SK "should" be at a 48% penalty (and not 68%) making his lvling go at a rate of 52% compared to normal 100%.. So mob that gives 100 exp to human druid would give only 52 exp to troll SK.

You're not multiplying the right numbers.

If a Wood Elf Druid takes 100 xp to get from level 1 to level 2, then a Troll Shadow Knight takes (100 * 1.4 * 1.2)=168xp to get from level 1 to level 2.

This is demonstrable in that no matter what race/class combo you are, you lose the same portion of your xp bar with each death. The death penalty is a loss of xp equal to 10% of the xp it took to gain your last level (this, in turn, is demonstrable in that a death at levels 31, 36, 41, and 46 causes twice as much xp loss as a death at other levels).

[Yak]

search posts by me for a full explanation. I don't feel like typing it all again.

Why not just provide us the link?

[Yak]

You're not multiplying the right numbers.

If a Wood Elf Druid takes 100 xp to get from level 1 to level 2, then a Troll Shadow Knight takes (100 * 1.4 * 1.2)=168xp to get from level 1 to level 2.

This is demonstrable in that no matter what race/class combo you are, you lose the same portion of your xp bar with each death. The death penalty is a loss of xp equal to 10% of the xp it took to gain your last level (this, in turn, is demonstrable in that a death at levels 31, 36, 41, and 46 causes twice as much xp loss as a death at other levels).

Not talking about the death penalty here. Talking about group XP.

[Dr4z3r]

Not talking about the death penalty here. Talking about group XP.

Is your reading comprehension seriously that bad?

He wrote out where he believed he had found an inconsistency in the standard explanation of how xp penalties apply in groups.

I then explained that the error was on his part, showed how the game makes the real calculations, and then backed up my assertion using the death penalty as corroborating empirical evidence.

If you don't know what that means, please check http://dictionary.reference.com before replying.

[thefloydian]

Not talking about the death penalty here. Talking about group XP.

:D

[Rhambuk]

After sifting through 30 pages of the thread dumesh pointed me to the closest thing I could find was.

Not true, I've checked it with debugging repeatedly. In fact what happens is:

Example mob worth 1000 xp.

One person killing one mob gets 1000xp.

Six people killing six mobs get 6600xp (which equates to 1100xp per player before normalization).

If all six players are the same level and are class/race combinations without any XP modifier then all six players will get 1100xp each.

However, if the group is again the same level, but has some penalties etc, it works out like this:


Race Class Per Mob For Six
--------- ------- ------- -------
Human Cleric 162 974
Ogre Warrior 174 1042
Halfling Rogue 142 851
Erudite Wizard 180 1083
Barbarian Shaman 171 1026
Half-elf Ranger 271 1624
--------- ------- ------- -------
Total 1100 6600

So except for the Human Cleric and the Halfing Rogue, all members of the group earn more XP for killing 6 mobs while grouped than they did killing one mob solo.

The benefits of solo'ing vs. grouping depend on a lot of factors, but from a raw XP perspective, if the group can consistently kill 6 mobs in the amount of time the solo'er kills one mob, the group will earn faster XP over time.

Later in the post Uthgaard verified bum's numbers, or at least mentioned them positively =p

[karsten]

those are interesting numbers -- now, as I recall, different race/class combos also had different xp amounts required to level -- am I "mis-remembering" that?

[Rhambuk]

those are interesting numbers -- now, as I recall, different race/class combos also had different xp amounts required to level -- am I "mis-remembering" that?

I've actually never heard that, if so I'd hope that penalized classes wouldn't require more exp. Seems like penalty/bonus was their way of "balancing" everything out.

[Yak]

Thanks Rhambuk that makes a lot more sense! That's the info that I was looking for!

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Why not just provide us the link?

Because I've already spent quite a bit of time answering this question and ones like it 3 or 4 times over the last 6 months, and at the time I posted in this thread, I didn't want to expend the 5 minutes it would have taken to search my own posts and quote myself when I could spend 20 seconds typing a post directing those searching for the information to the place where they could find it.

Thanks for the assist Rhambuk.

I have a few posts by myself in that thread and others that detail the issue further. Maybe if I am bored later today I will take the time to repost the info myself. I might even be persuaded to do a write-up that can be stickied.

[Rhambuk]

Thanks dumesh, I think a stickied write up on how the penalty sharing works would be best because i can definitely see an identical thread popping up in a few weeks asking the same questions.

Where bumgardeners numbers are nice i think a more detailed explanation would be more helpful.

[Chanus]

those are interesting numbers -- now, as I recall, different race/class combos also had different xp amounts required to level -- am I "mis-remembering" that?

I've actually never heard that, if so I'd hope that penalized classes wouldn't require more exp. Seems like penalty/bonus was their way of "balancing" everything out.

Penalized classes/races do require more XP... that's how the penalty works. The penalty/bonus was to balance out the innate abilities of the classes/races (that was the intent anyway).

We say a Troll SK gets an x% XP penalty, but that doesn't mean the Troll SK gets a different amount of XP per kill (solo), it means the Troll SK requires more XP to level... so learning that certain classes/races require more XP to level doesn't actually change anything.

The "group penalty", as it's called, was implemented to ensure your Dwarf Cleric wouldn't out-level your buddy's Troll SK so you could continue playing together.

[Yak]

Because I've already spent quite a bit of time answering this question and ones like it 3 or 4 times over the last 6 months, and at the time I posted in this thread, I didn't want to expend the 5 minutes it would have taken to search my own posts and quote myself when I could spend 20 seconds typing a post directing those searching for the information to the place where they could find it.

Thanks for the assist Rhambuk.

I have a few posts by myself in that thread and others that detail the issue further. Maybe if I am bored later today I will take the time to repost the info myself. I might even be persuaded to do a write-up that can be stickied.

I agree they really need to sticky the whole XP/Group Penalty thing, as it keeps coming up. Glad to see a definitive post.

[Rhambuk]

Penalized classes/races do require more XP... that's how the penalty works. The penalty/bonus was to balance out the innate abilities of the classes/races (that was the intent anyway).

We say a Troll SK gets an x% XP penalty, but that doesn't mean the Troll SK gets a different amount of XP per kill (solo), it means the Troll SK requires more XP to level... so learning that certain classes/races require more XP to level doesn't actually change anything.

The "group penalty", as it's called, was implemented to ensure your Dwarf Cleric wouldn't out-level your buddy's Troll SK so you could continue playing together.

I think I see this now re-reading bumgardeners numbers, hence the halfling rog "gains" less per kill than the ranger, to equalize the exp throughout the group.

[Chanus]

Right, in a group they do gain different amounts of XP per kill to balance out the inherent bonus/penalty of each race/class with the goal being everyone in the group advancing at the same rate.

The amount of XP per kill coming into the group as a whole is static (based on what is being killed and in what zone).

[Rhambuk]

makes sense now, no wonder rangers can't get groups poor guys

[Chanus]

It's kind of funny. They didn't want hybrids to level faster than others, so they gave them an XP penalty... and then they wanted hybrids to be able to keep up with their friends, so they made the group XP penalty... and then no one wanted to group with hybrids.

[Yak]

It's kind of funny. They didn't want hybrids to level faster than others, so they gave them an XP penalty... and then they wanted hybrids to be able to keep up with their friends, so they made the group XP penalty... and then no one wanted to group with hybrids.

I agree it's messed up. Personally, I think there shouldn't be a group XP penilty. No wonder when I solo with my Druid I am able to level faster. :)

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

first draft posted