Raid Rules need adjusted (SIRKIN PLEASE READ)

[baue1446]

Hey listen I am all for a trying to adjust the raid engagement rules and changing how FTEs are done. I know your intentions were good and are trying to help other guilds get into the NTOV raiding scene but these new rules did the exact opposite. Instead of 2 guilds generally getting 50/50 (+/- 20%) each week on targets we now have ONE guild getting 99% of the targets. Regardless of what guild is getting the 99% do you really think this change was best for the server? The old rules had both guilds BOTH getting a good amount of kills and only HALF the amount of people were needed to sit at their PCs for 16 hours a day.

Do we really want this server to have another TMO/Rampage monopolizing every single raid target? Because only after 3 weeks of these new rules its pretty apparent that only ONE guild has the resources to sustain this type of rule set. Sirken you say you want to make things fair and possible for other guilds to have a shot at NTOV. Well this is not the way to go. This has done nothing but produce a vastly different result that I am sure you intended.

I have an easy solution that will not only allow small guilds to compete but also get rid of the stupid pulling situation that NTOV goes thru with trainups and such. As well as get rid of the 16 hour poop socking.

ROOT ALL NTOV RAID TARGETS IN PLACE.

Seriously. That would allow even small guilds to clear up to some dragons. We would have to clear leashed guards and you would have to choose which targets you want to go for. Obviously vulak will continue to summon dragons to him. Which would ultimately make him the last target and if a guild wants him they will have to sit next to him and miss other targets that the other guilds are clearing(a choice they would have to make) Honestly there is no other way to fix NTOV but this. Either COTH poop socking, run up Poop socking or some other form of stupid method the top two guilds will come up with to skirt the rules. Rooting all raid targets in place is the only way to go.

Please consider this because as far as I can tell besides the ONE guild. No other guild on the entire server has benefited from this change. How could it possibly be a good thing if that was the result?

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/LdCm8tR.gif

[ArumTP]

Rooting mobs has nothing to do with variance.
16 hour windows causes burn out, and small guilds unable to compete.

Now move this thread to RnF

[baue1446]

http://i.imgur.com/LdCm8tR.gif

Nothing about NTOV is classic. NOTHING. Not one single guild on live ever cleared NTOV like its done today. This server needs to learn and adjust to the way its player base has manipulated the system. You cannot keep turning a blind eye to the problems the server is facing. 17 years ago guilds were already in luclin(or close to it) and they were moving on to new raid content. This allowed the smaller guilds to get a chance at old content which kept all guilds happy (big or small).

That will never happen on this server. So the GMs need to realize that and work the system that we have. Not cling to the past as if that will make the problems go away.

[nicemace]

found detoxx's anon account.

[baue1446]

Rooting mobs has nothing to do with variance.
16 hour windows causes burn out, and small guilds unable to compete.

Now move this thread to RnF


You can get rid of the variance too in this situation. Have all mobs pop at the same time. If you want to allow some type of randomness just have the time they ALL pop have a variance

[Fifield]

Whoever can spend the most time devoted to poopsocking usually gets the mob, this has been the way since the dawn of time on P99, whoever socked Naggy back in the day, whoever socked VS back in the day with a group ready. Its all the same.

Put in time, get awarded. If one guild wants to devote that much time, let them.

I guess I should plug the DAOC uthgard server now? mwuahahaha

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

classic post! Simple explanation.

p99 1-60:

http://i.imgur.com/g4Ds4hH.jpg

And then, the p99 raid scene:

http://i.imgur.com/b2ds1C4.gif

[Oleris]

Need windows during weekend, not Monday and Tuesday.

[Swish]

Nothing about NTOV is classic. NOTHING. Not one single guild on live ever cleared NTOV like its done today. This server needs to learn and adjust to the way its player base has manipulated the system. You cannot keep turning a blind eye to the problems the server is facing. 17 years ago guilds were already in luclin(or close to it) and they were moving on to new raid content. This allowed the smaller guilds to get a chance at old content which kept all guilds happy (big or small).

That will never happen on this server. So the GMs need to realize that and work the system that we have. Not cling to the past as if that will make the problems go away.

The players aren't classic, but variance aside... the mechanics are there.

[azeth]

SIRKIN

[Naethyn]

Rooted Vyemm was awesome in Luclin. Lets do the Vulak flurry event while we're at it too.

[ArumTP]

Making a rational post on this as someone that has seen and participated in the raid scene for some time now, Rooting ToV mobs is not a feasible idea. When a dragon pops you will have 2-5 guilds (250ish people) leapfrogging there way towards the dragon causing trains and a ton of petition's for the server staff to deal with. As far as I am aware there have not been any petition's pushed through since the rule change to footraces in ToV (This is what the GM's want).

Less petitions is from the heavy handed 10 day blanket suspensions, practically making all guilds concede of a mere threat of petition.

[baue1446]

First you want a Rotation http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2208785&postcount=1
Now you want rooted mobs. /facepalm

Making a rational post on this as someone that has seen and participated in the raid scene for some time now, Rooting ToV mobs is not a feasible idea. When a dragon pops you will have 2-5 guilds (250ish people) leapfrogging there way towards the dragon causing trains and a ton of petition's for the server staff to deal with. As far as I am aware there have not been any petition's pushed through since the rule change to footraces in ToV (This is what the GM's want).

I just want anything thats not one guild getting 100% of mobs. I dont care which system is in place to make that happen.

[Herp]

This server just needs a raid summit, where 1 representative from each guild shows up to voice their concerns and desires. That'll solve it... Because if we aren't getting kills, why improve when we can just change the raid rules for the 7th time this year.

[xKoopa]

Need windows during weekend, not Monday and Tuesday.

this is 99% of my burnout factor

fuck these windows

[Swish]

classic post! Simple explanation.

p99 1-60:

http://i.imgur.com/g4Ds4hH.jpg

And then, the p99 raid scene:

http://i.imgur.com/b2ds1C4.gif

I ate a suspension for less than that 2nd picture :eek:

[Ivory]

Obviously what needs to happen is first remove TOV.

Second, randomly a trash mob in a newbie zone spawns with the stats of the hardest dragon in TOV and it's loot cycle.

This trash mob would likely feed on newbies for a while before being trained to the guards or nearby city, thereby destroying it and making it its lair.

This would happen once a week.

Discuss.

[Daywolf]

If we were to break from classic, may as well just pvp flag raid groups and on a timer cool down. Let nature take it's course, and provide server support to those actually in need elsewhere. Drown lawyerquest in the 2 inches of water it deserves.

[Pokesan]

infinite variance is the only solution

don't let the sockers fool you - reduced variance only makes it easier for them to continue bogarting every dragon

[Daywolf]

I ate a suspension for less than that 2nd picture :eek: hmm? In the US that is cutting edge slap-stick comedy. Note how the blade flexes as it enters the bone. May the odds be ever in your favor!

[Kaziel]

There's no point changing anything, some people don't want to share the 17 year old pixels and are going to act like children no matter what you do.
I plan to lvl a few characters then leave, the raid drama on here is pathetic.

[icedwards]

The A/A guilds are here for the hyper competition, usually between one another, and it's unfortunate the smaller guilds get pushed out because of it. It doesn't matter what you do though, there's no secret formula that suddenly allows the casual guilds to casually kill dragons while keeping the top guilds from dominating the content.

You can root all the dragons you like, do you think that will stop the current trend? Awakened, Aftermath or whatever iteration is on top will always be the first to mobilize, clear trash quicker, and handle training away guards better. TMO and Rampage farmed VP for 5 years, the casuals won't see NTOV without rotations.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

One year variance for all raid targets.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

The casuals won't see NTOV without rotations.

99% of A/A don't see NTOV either, just the zone in (or west wing zone out) where they stare at badly rendered walls.

[surron]

no one can use the "not classic" argument... I don't understand why people do. p99 has loads of content/features that isn't classic

[Lammy]

Very original thought. sirken must read

[Swish]

no one can use the "not classic" argument... I don't understand why people do. p99 has loads of content/features that isn't classic

So lets make more non-classic changes, great idea.

[Trungep99]

a simple solution for the run ups would be to only allow 2 people from each guild / teamed up guilds to be allowed to do a run up. if someone from a team dies then another designated person may be able to begin a run up.

[renordw]

Yeah not sure what needs to be done but raiding on P99 is basically the worst high end content of any game. I keep quitting and coming back like a masochist.

[Spyder73]

Hey listen I am all for a trying to adjust the raid engagement rules and changing how FTEs are done. I know your intentions were good and are trying to help other guilds get into the NTOV raiding scene but these new rules did the exact opposite. Instead of 2 guilds generally getting 50/50 (+/- 20%) each week on targets we now have ONE guild getting 99% of the targets. Regardless of what guild is getting the 99% do you really think this change was best for the server? The old rules had both guilds BOTH getting a good amount of kills and only HALF the amount of people were needed to sit at their PCs for 16 hours a day.

Do we really want this server to have another TMO/Rampage monopolizing every single raid target? Because only after 3 weeks of these new rules its pretty apparent that only ONE guild has the resources to sustain this type of rule set. Sirken you say you want to make things fair and possible for other guilds to have a shot at NTOV. Well this is not the way to go. This has done nothing but produce a vastly different result that I am sure you intended.

I have an easy solution that will not only allow small guilds to compete but also get rid of the stupid pulling situation that NTOV goes thru with trainups and such. As well as get rid of the 16 hour poop socking.

ROOT ALL NTOV RAID TARGETS IN PLACE.

Seriously. That would allow even small guilds to clear up to some dragons. We would have to clear leashed guards and you would have to choose which targets you want to go for. Obviously vulak will continue to summon dragons to him. Which would ultimately make him the last target and if a guild wants him they will have to sit next to him and miss other targets that the other guilds are clearing(a choice they would have to make) Honestly there is no other way to fix NTOV but this. Either COTH poop socking, run up Poop socking or some other form of stupid method the top two guilds will come up with to skirt the rules. Rooting all raid targets in place is the only way to go.

Please consider this because as far as I can tell besides the ONE guild. No other guild on the entire server has benefited from this change. How could it possibly be a good thing if that was the result?

1) Obviously an Aftermath member =(
2) Has a 60 shaman and a 60 knight class
3) Is selling raid loot for personal gain (Swiftblade of ZeK)
4) Using an anon account
5) Sounds like a whiny b!tch

[Erati]

a simple solution for the run ups would be to only allow 2 people from each guild / teamed up guilds to be allowed to do a run up. if someone from a team dies then another designated person may be able to begin a run up.

Great idea - who is the ref at the starting line making sure this is obeyed ?

What happens when those 2 people derp and die - how long til more can race ?

Do additional racers count to 10 Mississippi before starting ? What if they are logging in from character select, when can they race?

Can the original racers try again if they fail ?

[FatMice]

Great idea - who is the ref at the starting line making sure this is obeyed ?

What happens when those 2 people derp and die - how long til more can race ?

Do additional racers count to 10 Mississippi before starting ? What if they are logging in from character select, when can they race?

Can new racers start as soon as original racers die or only when they 'tap out' ?

Why are you entertaining his stupid idea? You know it would never be enforceable and on top of it your guild leader has already stated he doesn't want to limit the number of runners. Why take the joy away from people staring at a swinging door!

Edit: Oh yea sarcasm!

[Trungep99]

Great idea - who is the ref at the starting line making sure this is obeyed ?

What happens when those 2 people derp and die - how long til more can race ?

Do additional racers count to 10 Mississippi before starting ? What if they are logging in from character select, when can they race?

Can the original racers try again if they fail ?

my opinion is to allow only 2 racers per each (guild/team of guilds) at a time to past the line upon a pop. if one dies another may start the run up immediately. if you die you can run again ONLY if no one else took your spot past the line. if 3 people aredoing the run up then you forfeit. If someone passes the line not apart of the run up they must say something in shout.

you can start your run up once your tracker sees the mob pop.

[Trungep99]

Why are you entertaining his stupid idea? You know it would never be enforceable and on top of it your guild leader has already stated he doesn't want to limit the number of runners. Why take the joy away from people staring at a swinging door!

Edit: Oh yea sarcasm!

if we dont limit the # of runners then it creates an unfair playing field. it would entertain a hard core guild who can recruit 100 active people vs more casual guilds.

[FatMice]

my opinion is to allow only 2 racers per each (guild/team of guilds) at a time to past the line upon a pop. if one dies another may start the run up immediately. if you die you can run again ONLY if no one else took your spot past the line. if 3 people aredoing the run up then you forfeit. If someone passes the line not apart of the run up they must say something in shout.

you can start your run up once your tracker sees the mob pop.

Please no. Trunge have you done run ups yet? I honestly don't know.

[Spyder73]

2 guild rotation - don't let the plebs in - stop the madness - everyone wins

#AwakenedAftermathAlliance2016

[FatMice]

2 guild rotation - don't let me in - stop the madness - everyone else wins

#AwakenedAftermathAlliance2016

[Trungep99]

Please no. Trunge have you done run ups yet? I honestly don't know.

yes i have, not many but i have done them. i know people die quickly. but by doing so more guilds will have active runners and give a fairer chance for a variety of different guilds to win each race.

[FatMice]

yes i have, not many but i have done them. i know people die quickly. but by doing so more guilds will have active runners and give a fairer chance for a variety of different guilds to win each race.

Then you must know how difficult it would be to enforce this. While I am personally in favor to limit or lessen the number players required to set up the engage on a dragon, the argument greatly benefits the guild(s) that is(are) not cleaning house. While players get upset, myself included, when we lose mobs or don't have enough players to step-up for run-up, FTE, bind sight, track, translocate or buff duties there is literally no incentive for level a playing field. I know if I was in first place and my competition was getting crushed I wouldn't waiver. I would just stay the current course as long as I could.

[Tewaz]

Red says Hi!

[Pokesan]

http://i.imgur.com/3MTf2bp.png

[Spyder73]

I see what you did there =P

[maskedmelon]

If the runners regularly fail then it is advantageous to employ as many as possible and strategize their deaths.

Limit runners to 2 each with a single shot. No new runners under any circumstances. If all fail. Sirken despawns the target.

[Lojik]

More rules please

[beyondinfin]

p99 You SUCK. At least when it comes to this whiny end game BS.

[Trungep99]

p99 You SUCK. At least when it comes to this whiny end game BS.

yep, no one wants to rotate spawns so this is the state of the server.

[Tewaz]

Best new rules are no rules.

[Bruize]

posting in an entitlement thread

if awakened wasn't dunking on you non stop would you still have made this thread?

[Ravager]

Remove raid content on Blue. Let anyone who wants to raid move to Red. No more crying about the shitty raid scene on Blue. Less reason for Red players to come here and cry about their shitty server.

[TheDuck]

this is crazy, so many mobs up on red. rofl. there is content just waiting to be done no lines amazing.

[maskedmelon]

Remove raid content on Blue. Let anyone who wants to raid move to Red. No more crying about the shitty raid scene on Blue. Less reason for Red players to come here and cry about their shitty server.

Best suggestion ever!

[Lojik]

Here's the crux of the problem imo:
Server staff has limited resources to deal with problems (they don't get paid) yet people want to push for more rules, which requires more enforcement which drains the staff even more. There really should just be mechanics in place that self police the server, even if people wanna shout "not classic."

[JurisDictum]

Here's the crux of the problem imo:
Server staff has limited resources to deal with problems (they don't get paid) yet people want to push for more rules, which requires more enforcement which drains the staff even more. There really should just be mechanics in place that self police the server, even if people wanna shout "not classic."

Then damage racing and trains would take over.