Beating a Dead Horse

[easy_lee]

There will never be resets on project 1999, so the developers have said. Though the expansions did not follow the original timeline (Kunark lasted several years, as opposed to less than one), we have nonetheless had one single continuity. It's unfortunate that periodic server resets, which will never happen, are the only thing which would cause significant change.

Do not mistake this post as another call for resets. I'm merely pointing out facts. EQ is a game built around progression. But due to the age of the server, that progression has run dry.

Here are the effects of the server never having resets:

Stagnant endgame where those here the longest have all the gear they want and mostly control spawns.
Significant twinking in lower levels. Over half of all new characters start the game with gear intended for 50+.
Reduced or nonexistent PvP at low levels. Much of the population only logs on for raids, as they are no longer leveling or in need of preraid gear.
Nihilistic attitude towards the game, since every achievement has already been done by someone else.
Reduced difficulty, due to twinking and bored endgame players.
Reduced variability of play due to omnipresent twinks, reduced difficulty, and fewer leveling players.
Reduced social aspect, due to reduced difficulty, fewer leveling players, and many players only logging on for raids.
Less contestation of dungeons, camps, and so on due to fewer people needing them.
Less non endgame PvP due to less need to contest nonraid mobs.
Less endgame PvP due to established zergs, inevitable barriers to PvP which take time to develop but never go away on their own.
When low level PvP occurs, twinks and/or higher level players/buffs are almost always involved.
New players frequently quit due to the long, lonely, and tedious leveling and gearing process, all just to join a fixed, unchangeable endgame. Note that the leveling process is only lonely and tedious due to everyone else having already finished.

Teams, rules changes, I've come to see that these sorts of things won't lead to significant change. The only thing that would revitalize the server, periodic resets, is never going to happen.

[HippoNipple]

There is already a really simple solution that has been brought up many times. They have a 3rd server. Start up a new PvP server identical to Red99 and have it merge with the old Red99 every 3 years.

1 year classic, 1 year kunark, 1 year velious

There are no resets or wipes.

[TacoSmasher]

thanks for the post. It was definitely worth your time to put so much thought into this and format it like you did.

Well done

[Efwan]

thanks for the post. It was definitely worth your time to put so much thought into this and format it like you did.

Well done

[Jazzy]

thanks for the post. It was definitely worth your time to put so much thought into this and format it like you did.

Well done

[easy_lee]

Hah, I should add trolling to the list. I'll take it as a sign that everyone pretty much agrees with me, but doesn't give a shit. Stay classy, Red.

[easy_lee]

There is already a really simple solution that has been brought up many times. They have a 3rd server. Start up a new PvP server identical to Red99 and have it merge with the old Red99 every 3 years.

1 year classic, 1 year kunark, 1 year velious

There are no resets or wipes.

That would lead to a cycle where the devs had to either continuously release new servers every X time, reset the new server after X time, or just allow the new server to lapse into the same problems.

And besides, we don't have enough players for that.

[TacoSmasher]

tbh your list contained several mind blowing revelations

[maerilith]

bring the server down for a week or a month for maintenance and bring a new server back up afterwards instead of the old broken ded one

that's not a reset, it's an entirely new server :D

[Sear]

lol'd at some of the brutal responses here

love the asshole red community


OP you are correct in both thread title and content. Teams box that resets every 2 years pls.

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

Not sure who Easy_lee is, but all your assumptions and suggestions are good.
Especially like the merge after 3 years. 2/3 of responses are just vexatious FQing.

Maybe instead of demanding or asking for a new red99b Server, we could try to unify the voices and enter a constructive dialogue with Rogean and suggest financial burden sharing.

He does a guestimate how much time he would have to invest and what the overhead costs for maintence would be and the pvp-avid community crowd sources that.

From an employed persons view (Rogean) RnF is just chimps hitting the keyboard, but if we could let money do the talking, maybe thats how we incentivize the progress we seek.

think of all the bluebies who would be lured to a leveled-playing field ..

[HippoNipple]

That would lead to a cycle where the devs had to either continuously release new servers every X time, reset the new server after X time, or just allow the new server to lapse into the same problems.

And besides, we don't have enough players for that.

Yes, a Dev would need to manually come on and release an expansion once a year. Every 3 years they would need to reset a server. I don't see the problem. As far as population goes I don't think that many people would play on the current Red99, or at a minimum the ones raiding would play both and only log on the current server for raids.

The idea is that there is never a wipe which these Devs have stated they will never do.

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Server is alive and thriving

[Sear]

Not sure who Easy_lee is, but all your assumptions and suggestions are good.
Especially like the merge after 3 years. 2/3 of responses are just vexatious FQing.

Maybe instead of demanding or asking for a new red99b Server, we could try to unify the voices and enter a constructive dialogue with Rogean and suggest financial burden sharing.

He does a guestimate how much time he would have to invest and what the overhead costs for maintence would be and the pvp-avid community crowd sources that.

From an employed persons view (Rogean) RnF is just chimps hitting the keyboard, but if we could let money do the talking, maybe thats how we incentivize the progress we seek.

think of all the bluebies who would be lured to a leveled-playing field ..

I like this too.

I'd rather off myself than manage a server again, but I can throw money at a good cause.

Does this server really have no GM presence now or is that just hyperbole? Did Sirken finally burn out?

[Sear]

I dunno though.

Money talks, yes. This is true.

But giving a demanding community more leverage for "getting what they want" is dicey. There isn't a unified roadmap of changes that are sought after. They don't want to put themselves at the mercy of the whims of players who aren't all on the same page.

When you work/volunteer doing this kind of garbage, what you want is a minimal amount of bitching and complication (i.e., extra work).

[bubur]

sounds like u should just play zek

[maerilith]

#wipeitclean2016

[Tassador]

Wankers

[heartbrand]

I like this too.

I'd rather off myself than manage a server again, but I can throw money at a good cause.

Does this server really have no GM presence now or is that just hyperbole? Did Sirken finally burn out?

P99 ain't a charity that's all I'll say

[georgie]

There is already a really simple solution that has been brought up many times. They have a 3rd server. Start up a new PvP server identical to Red99 and have it merge with the old Red99 every 3 years.

1 year classic, 1 year kunark, 1 year velious

There are no resets or wipes.

why merge at all is the question

[iiNGloriouS]

P99 ain't a charity that's all I'll say

[HippoNipple]

why merge at all is the question

The idea of the merge is just to solve the problem of not wiping a server. I personally would rather the server just reset every 3 years and wipe. Maybe they would be up for that with a new server if they were up front about the wipe before it started.

[HippoNipple]

P99 ain't a charity that's all I'll say

You seem like someone that would know. Is there a way to collect $ without infringing on laws to help pay for the server if it is somehow proven to not be making profit? Is there a way to spread cost to players as if it is a non-profit?

[Bazia]

After skimming through this thread I decided my toilet time would be better spent reading the back of a Shampoo bottle

[easy_lee]

You seem like someone that would know. Is there a way to collect $ without infringing on laws to help pay for the server if it is somehow proven to not be making profit? Is there a way to spread cost to players as if it is a non-profit?

If I may...

The law is unclear on this. We have Daybreak's support of this server as precedent for allowing donations to a free server. We also have Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius as precedent for the owners of an IP to be able to shut down a server like P1999 if they choose. So far as I know, none of this kind of thing has actually gone to court.

That said, I'm also skeptical of trying to pay Rogean to do anything. Ultimately, it would be a minority of players (most people on the server wouldn't donate) trying to pay for decisions that would affect everyone. It would be lobbying, something I'm against.

If Rogean wants to do something, and asks for money to get it going, that would be okay. Except that then it would almost certainly be legal, since we would be directly paying him to create a private server for an IP he doesn't own.

Ultimately, Rogean will have to keep doing what he's been doing: deciding things on his own, and leaving the donate button sitting there for anyone who wants to send money.

[georgie]

The idea of the merge is just to solve the problem of not wiping a server. I personally would rather the server just reset every 3 years and wipe. Maybe they would be up for that with a new server if they were up front about the wipe before it started.

The point of my question is its gonna suck all the life out of the original server, anyways. And the only real positive is people holding onto their pixels. Which is going ruin the economy on the newly populated server. Not even leaning on the chance that sick individuals will be playing both servers. And that just means more staff or most likely even less, with explosive personalities. Ultimately I think it'd be a shit show, but I'm completely not against anything at this point.


I'm completely behind a wipe. There should be a chance at an actual classic timeline.

[easy_lee]

I'm completely behind a wipe. There should be a chance at an actual classic timeline.

Rogean said it would never happen, though. And p1999 is by far the best classic EQ experience out there, due to the stellar code base, anti cheating, and rules against multiboxing.

At this point, the only things I know of which might happen, and could produce an actual classic experience (instead of the nihilistic and stale server we have now) are:

Rogean releases a teams server, which seems unlikely.
Rogean releases the source code and someone else makes a stable and popular server, also unlikely.
Daybreak makes better classic servers which don't allow multiboxing, very unlikely.

Not holding my breath.

[Aesop]

but keep yellow text and ooc because classic experience

those didn't (and continue) to contribute to the server state. nope

[Gardur]

Red is structurally perfect IMO.

4years of kunark during the dev process is the issue.

Re release via wipe or a parallel server with scheduled merge on classic timeline IMO.

[Videri]

There is already a really simple solution that has been brought up many times. They have a 3rd server. Start up a new PvP server identical to Red99 and have it merge with the old Red99 every 3 years.

1 year classic, 1 year kunark, 1 year velious

There are no resets or wipes.

This sounds awesome. Not surprised that I also agree with Gardur. Except wiping - I think a new server would be the way.

[georgie]

Rogean said it would never happen, though. And p1999 is by far the best classic EQ experience out there, due to the stellar code base, anti cheating, and rules against multiboxing.

At this point, the only things I know of which might happen, and could produce an actual classic experience (instead of the nihilistic and stale server we have now) are:

Rogean releases a teams server, which seems unlikely.
Rogean releases the source code and someone else makes a stable and popular server, also unlikely.
Daybreak makes better classic servers which don't allow multiboxing, very unlikely.

Not holding my breath.
Rogean said experience increase would never happen.

[silo32]

no wipe

server is fine

everyone asking for a wipe does not play or represent the current player base of red99

we have a blue serer and a red server

no need for a 3rd server or a reset or wipe, with all the information we have its counter productive, not everyone can have a manastone, or guise sorry you lost your chance

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Server is alive and thriving. It's got its load of rejects leave it alone.

[Bazia]

wipe plz, remember some people get so addicted to elf quest they will play endless alts no matter how shit server is

[Colgate]

not even a wipe can save everquest from being everquest

[iruinedyourday]

Recycle99 can't wait! Only 6 more years!

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

Red is structurally perfect IMO.

4years of kunark during the dev process is the issue.

Re release via wipe or a parallel server with scheduled merge on classic timeline IMO.

Structurally perfect? Up to Kunark maybe.

Isnt one of the main Problems that Velious raid Mobs require 60-80 People*, but there is not enough population for 2 guilds with that amount of players?

That always leads to a dominant guild monopolizing all gear Progress.
And the Slogan recruit and contest just becomes the "stop resisting" of riot cops in face of the low Population numbers and unattractive way for lone newcomers.

Guild leaders should negotiate a bi-partisan member limit of 30, then come together for the big targets. Maybe let a 2v2 decide the loot rights.

ANd then pvp on all other occasions. That would allow for 3-4 guilds.

So velious made this low Pop / no pipline of Newcomer Server basically blue, with the occasional ragefire Harass by Friends.

[VZ_Xanit K'ven]

parallel Server with classic timeline would be the promised land

[easy_lee]

wipes are pointless, people quit a lot due to no progression and their items rot on dead accounts.

I don't see what the issue is, start forming up a guild that suits your playstyle and recruit friends.

a wipe would only make guk loot rare, who cares?

Pretty simple why a wipe would help, actually, even though it will never happen. For a few months, most players would be back in the leveling and gearing phase, which is what EverQuest is all about. The server has only stagnated because 90% of the players online at any given point are already through the game, multiple times, and spend their time in raids or on twinked alts.

Don't think that's a problem? It limits the kind of people you meet. Start a fresh character if you doubt me. On p 1999, you meet only one progressing player, which the game was intended for, for every ten or so twinked alts and bored 60s. The amount of time you spend in interesting groups is vastly small compared to how long you spend bored and looking for groups, soloing, or being carried by twinks and bored 60s.

And that trend continues all the way to 45+, where the zerg is ready to swoop you up and carry you through raids.

Conflict and interesting play here are artificial. They don't happen naturally, but have to be forced by the community. That's a product of the stagnant endgame and the fact that most people have already beaten it.

And regarding player count, I've long held that pre-kunark, classic only is the timeline best suited to our population. Back then, ten players working together could clear pretty much everything. You didn't need velious numbers, and so competition was more feasible. The zerg would still form after a certain number of months, which is why the game needed to keep moving through expansions quickly, on the original timeline, or be reset.

It was never reset, and expansions came slow, leading to an increasingly stagnant situation.

[HippoNipple]

wipes are pointless, people quit a lot due to no progression and their items rot on dead accounts.



You say wipes are pointless and then comment on the thing wipes fix. The server is stale and boring, people want a fresh start to revitalize meaningful progression.

[Izmael]

Wipes would drive away everyone but the most hardcore beards.

A casual fuck like myself already finds gearing up pretty hard. If there was a wipe I'd never ever connect to R99 again in my life.

So unless you wanna play on a 15 pop server with all the FQ bio waste weirdos, don't wish for a wipe.

[Bazia]

if i dont recognize ur name ur opinion is worth less than dogshit

people playing here 3 months afraid of getting their one level 42 druid character wiped meanwhile others have access to 30+ raid geared level 60s

rogean u doin an social experiment on agatha or something?

wheres da wipe

[Aesop]

so what's going to change with a wipe? you gonna come out on top this time or something? because if you wipe it, just gonna be the same old shit different people in the end -- unless you guys want rolling wipes or some shit.

generally directed at the people who want a wipe.

remove YT, remove OOC.

if you do wipe then remove the exp bonus as well. red don't need no welfare exp. bonus

[Bazia]

shut up fgt u spent 1% of the time playing as me

and never even smelled the quality of pixels adorning my many characters

back to the fields u serf fuck

retards like the above afraid to lose their 1 level 37 rogue to a wipe are a fucking joke when people with stables of 60s are asking for a wipe

[Aesop]

I have stables of 60's scrub. Not fucking hard on this server.

Including probably the best geared ENC on the server (not you lol)

Nice ad hominem though plebeian.

[Aesop]

granted I didn't gear aforementioned ENC, but it's still better geared than yours. I'm not afraid to lose it, I just don't see what would change with a wipe.

The same people will neckbeard to the top, you'll play for a year or two then quit and be salty on the forums again. Have you considered moving on?

[easy_lee]

so what's going to change with a wipe? you gonna come out on top this time or something? because if you wipe it, just gonna be the same old shit different people in the end -- unless you guys want rolling wipes or some shit.

generally directed at the people who want a wipe.

remove YT, remove OOC.

if you do wipe then remove the exp bonus as well. red don't need no welfare exp. bonus

I can't speak for others, but I don't really care who's "on top." I imagine the same people who have the time and dedication to max out several endgame toons now would do so again if the server was wiped. No, this isn't about changing the result. It's about enjoying the journey there again.

Because, in the end, isn't that what p1999 is about?

And I agree with taking away experience bonus, YT, ooc, etc. That stuff doesn't really matter one way or the other to server health. The experience boost was added to get less patient people to come here, and OOC and YT just make the server seem busier than it actually is.

Global OOC discourages talking and grouping within the guild, since you can do so globally and need the guild less. YT gets people to run away from PvP, not wanting to be embarrassed in front of the server. Neither is good for community.

[Izmael]

if i dont recognize ur name ur opinion is worth less than dogshit
Nobody cares about your system of values, you pathetic buttmunch.

wheres da wipe

stfu, gtfo and diagf
thx

[Aesop]

I can't speak for others, but I don't really care who's "on top." I imagine the same people who have the time and dedication to max out several endgame toons now would do so again if the server was wiped. No, this isn't about changing the result. It's about enjoying the journey there again.

Because, in the end, isn't that what p1999 is about?

And I agree with taking away experience bonus, YT, ooc, etc. That stuff doesn't really matter one way or the other to server health. The experience boost was added to get less patient people to come here, and OOC and YT just make the server seem busier than it actually is.

Global OOC discourages talking and grouping within the guild, since you can do so globally and need the guild less. YT gets people to run away from PvP, not wanting to be embarrassed in front of the server. Neither is good for community.

Fair enough. I do think it's about the journey which is why most everyone gears out then quits.

[Bazia]

Don't try to reason with these diseased retards defending 40 person Velious server due to hoarder syndrome

Any EQ PvP server needs to be seasonal or cyclical in nature, this is painfully obvious by now.

[unleashedd]

alrdy moved on. EQ didn't taste the same this time like it did 15 years ago. was a fun year thou

[DRAGONBAIT]

we could now have a proper classic experience with the right timeline on expansions etc, we could learn from the mistakes like exp death on pvp and the likes and i bet we are all more mature as a community. The experience we could all have with a red wipe could be the best anyone has had since 99. I bet the problem is that devs are afraid that people will ask for a blue wipe after. But wtf we are the players, the server is ours tbh. Wipe it clean fellas. just ask for it

[hokuten99]

having regular wipes would force rmt to have no value.

Do you kids still not understand what this project was designed for?

[bolo]

There will never be a wipe. Move on like a champ.


Viva la resistencia!

[Modus]

Here are the effects of the server never having resets:

Stagnant endgame where those here the longest have all the gear they want and mostly control spawns.
Significant twinking in lower levels. Over half of all new characters start the game with gear intended for 50+.
Reduced or nonexistent PvP at low levels. Much of the population only logs on for raids, as they are no longer leveling or in need of preraid gear.
Nihilistic attitude towards the game, since every achievement has already been done by someone else.
Reduced difficulty, due to twinking and bored endgame players.
Reduced variability of play due to omnipresent twinks, reduced difficulty, and fewer leveling players.
Reduced social aspect, due to reduced difficulty, fewer leveling players, and many players only logging on for raids.
Less contestation of dungeons, camps, and so on due to fewer people needing them.
Less non endgame PvP due to less need to contest nonraid mobs.
Less endgame PvP due to established zergs, inevitable barriers to PvP which take time to develop but never go away on their own.
When low level PvP occurs, twinks and/or higher level players/buffs are almost always involved.
New players frequently quit due to the long, lonely, and tedious leveling and gearing process, all just to join a fixed, unchangeable endgame. Note that the leveling process is only lonely and tedious due to everyone else having already finished.



You mean to say these servers are the prime environment for black market RMT profitability?

A reset on Blue or Red has about as much chance as an audit of the Federal Reserve.

[Modus]

Plus rumor has it the hottub at Rogean's new house fell through the deck due to immigrant construction, and he's replacing it with a 2000 sqft Turkish Bathhouse.