DKP

[Maschenny]

In it's classic form, how many raids are usually needed to accumulate enough points to make a significant purchase? Like a class only weapon... Or a peice of armor. I understand this all depends on the item, but if you all could give me an idea of the commitment needed for certain tiers of items i would appreciate it.

[Heebo]

Yes

[Thulack]

It all depends on how a guilds DKP system works. There are many variations and each guilds needs differ from others. No one could give you a set answer. The hardest part of raiding is usually getting into the guild because most guilds have app periods where they decide if they want you or not. Once your in just dont do anything stupid and raiding is easy aside from the footraces and 2am batphones.

[Maschenny]

I know the question doesnt have an actual answer. Im looking for a ballpark "6 raids till you'd have some spending money."

[xKoopa]

depends on the items..

sk/pally stuff you might get for 1dkp but if you want a rogue item its gonna be a ton of dkp

[Thulack]

I know the question doesnt have an actual answer. Im looking for a ballpark "6 raids till you'd have some spending money."

Again that ballpark is going to be different. Some guilds reward DKP on time spent raiding. Others give DKP for the target involved. Some do both. The amounts you get are varied. Some guilds have min bids for items some dont. You could need a non popular class item and get it for less then 1 raids worth of DKP or you could need a highly popular class item and it take you 50 raids worth of DKP.

[Maschenny]

Again that ballpark is going to be different. Some guilds reward DKP on time spent raiding. Others give DKP for the target involved. Some do both. The amounts you get are varied. Some guilds have min bids for items some dont. You could need a non popular class item and get it for less then 1 raids worth of DKP or you could need a highly popular class item and it take you 50 raids worth of DKP.

Wow, interesting. So a BiS all/all could be a years worth of raiding. Yikes.

[Thulack]

Wow, interesting. So a BiS all/all could be a years worth of raiding. Yikes.

It could sure. Depends on guild you join. I know people that saved up DKP for months upon months to get certain items. Really it all comes down to how many times your guild sees said item and whose at the raid at the time that needs that will decide its price. Good example. When i was in Taken we didnt see Necro book that often from Inny in Hate. It went for 100's of DKP everytime it dropped. We ended up having like a 8am Inny raid with low numbers and i won it for 50dkp even though there were still plenty of necros willing to pay 100's for it they werent there.

[azeth]

~10-20 raids will buy you some pieces of ntov loot in <awakened>

[Pint]

months if you want a top tier item, unless you track a lot

[bktroost]

In AG we had someone join and get a silk robe for minimum bid. That is 6 dkp in AG. We give out 4 dkp per hour for hourly raids and 3 dkp per hour for tracking and bonus dkp for killing mobs. So in 2 hours of HoT that person was able to buy his class BiS-ToV gear robe.

It depends on two things in every guild. 1) Those who come before you and how "well fed" they are on the content they are engaging and 2) The acquisition stream that guild has on the items you are interested in.

If you are talking about VP, AG has an maximum overload of "underfed" players (1) and an absolute zero on our VP acquisition steam (2). If you are talking about wizard epics, we have 1-2 people in line (1) and kill VS very often (2). So the dkp reflects the cost of items, but in any fluctuating market it's entirely about your competition and supply.

[Cecily]

~10-20 raids will buy you some pieces of ntov loot in <awakened>

47 raids and about 15 hours of tracking got me about 850 dkp, which was enough for zero items.

[Kodim]

If you avoid Vulak/Dozekar/CT/Tormax/Tunare, there are tons of items throughout ToV that most people avoid because they'd rather have BiS.

Telk has a +100 mana mask, just like CT does etc

[Freakish]

Back when I was serious about raiding, I averaged 1 piece of non rot loot / month. And I was very satisfied. There's lots of stuff that isn't BIS that not a lot of people will be after.

[Colgate]

lol @ dkp good god why would you subject yourself to that in eq emu velious where guilds raid with 50+ players regularly and bosses drop 2-3 items, often shit you don't even want

[Cecily]

Because it gives you the illusion that you, the player, are in control.

[Erati]

Again that ballpark is going to be different. Some guilds reward DKP on time spent raiding. Others give DKP for the target involved. Some do both. The amounts you get are varied. Some guilds have min bids for items some dont. You could need a non popular class item and get it for less then 1 raids worth of DKP or you could need a highly popular class item and it take you 50 raids worth of DKP.

yes! ty Thulack I will remind Dald of this tonight as Akran still hasnt gotten his book haha

miss u

[EQsale]

In AG we had someone join and get a silk robe for minimum bid. That is 6 dkp in AG. We give out 4 dkp per hour for hourly raids and 3 dkp per hour for tracking and bonus dkp for killing mobs. So in 2 hours of HoT that person was able to buy his class BiS-ToV gear

Silk robe is not BEST IN SLOT just saying... guess people at AG have low standards

Sal`Varae`s Robe of Darkness way better but AG will never see one =-D

Went for 1800 DKP this week.

[Expediency]

In it's classic form, how many raids are usually needed to accumulate enough points to make a significant purchase? Like a class only weapon... Or a peice of armor. I understand this all depends on the item, but if you all could give me an idea of the commitment needed for certain tiers of items i would appreciate it.

So many variables

-Class matters greatly. If you are a necro, shaman, or rogue, get in line. If you're a mage or paladin, you will clean up because those dont exist.

-What items do you want? If you want the absolute best in slot, start playing 24/7 right now and you'll have half of it in a year if you're lucky. If you are happy with HoT armor and items from kael, fear/sky/hate, kunark dragons, etc, you can get that much easier. We routinely award lower tier loot from said targets with only one bidder for our minimum, which represents very little time investment.

-What guild are you joining? If you join an established guild where the people at the top already have good items, it will be harder to get BiS because the people at the top have tons of dkp but easier to get the next tier, very good items since they already have them.

-What are your guilds rules? There are some guilds that have ridiculous rules about maintaining a 25% or whatever raid attendance to spend the points you've earned. That sounds low to an outside observer, but in reality is a crazy time commitment and imo is flat out unfair. Thats like a store telling you that you're not eligible to spend your cash unless you worked 40 hours last week. Earned points are earned points, they should not come with strings attached.

-How does the guild award dkp? In Azure Guard we currently get 4 per hour if its an hourly raid. Some guilds might only give one per hour. So I cant say "100 dkp will get you x item" because 100 in our guild has the same value of 25 in another guild.

-How lucky are you at the time? Say an item drops on average once per month for six months. Odds are there will be a wide range of winning dkp bids on that item, depending on the class makeup of each raid. Some items swing wildly. For example, I got an item once for 51 dkp, and the next time our guild saw that drop someone spent double that to win the bid.

-How often do you hit a particular target? If you go to hate every week, hate loot will drop in price within your guild. If your guild rarely goes to hate, those best items will be harder to come by and expensive. For example we still do sky and have done it once a week for two years or more. All but the most top notch sky quest items (like that crazy ranger bow) go very cheap because everyone has them or has better already.

These arent even all the variables.

[Pokesan]

Silk robe is not BEST IN SLOT just saying... guess people at AG have low standards

Sal`Varae`s Robe of Darkness way better but AG will never see one =-D

Went for 1800 DKP this week.

he said it was class set BiS, but great job being an annoying nerd :)

[Expediency]

47 raids and about 15 hours of tracking got me about 850 dkp, which was enough for zero items.

If true, that is criminal. A good example for anyone joining a DKP guild that they need to do their homework.

Silk robe is not BEST IN SLOT just saying... guess people at AG have low standards

Sal`Varae`s Robe of Darkness way better but AG will never see one =-D

Went for 1800 DKP this week.

6DKP is an hour and a half of raiding in our system. 1800 dkp is an incredible time investment that only the most passionate neckbeard would ever consider reasonable. According to the wiki, vulak spawns once per week and drops it 4% of the time. Assuming one guild gets all 60 vulak spawns a year (one per week plus earthquakes) you are looking at only a handful of those being available all year. Good luck with that.

[Maschenny]

Thanks for your responses. How would one become acquinted with the particular raid rules of a guild?
I wouldn't be able to swing a raid % commitment. Ideally I would like to have access to some good raid targets, without the mandatory attendance or other such rules that require a lot of time flexibility.

[ambahpants]

47 raids and about 15 hours of tracking got me about 850 dkp, which was enough for zero items.

You forget to note that this was as an applicant.

[Colgate]

basically just proves the point that it's a retarded system when you invest that much time and you can't even spend your goblintown currency

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I came to conclusion, shared by many, that dkp on a content locked server like p99 is kind of pointless. DKP is useful when content is flying by, and you want to make sure you have points to get items before the game (and your guild) moves on.

On p99, burn out and turnover is so high, and again, the content is locked at Velious, so really, dkp is an unnecessary complication, needless work for the officers. Basically, if you can commit to a year (maximum) of heavy playing, you will get the itemz you want as long as you are in a guild owning content.

(Just to reaffirm how messed up I am, "a year of heavy playing" sounds modest to me. But during live, everyone was playing heavy in the top guilds, and you only had ~6 months before the ancient runed orcish reamer you wanted was going to be obsolete, so playing the DKP game was crucial to getting the pixels. Just not a factor on p99. Just put in your time, be a good guildie, especially tracking and other skullfucking jobs like coth bitch etc, and you will get...... the pixels of your dreams)


edit: and oh yeah, don't join a zerg guild. Moar members = moar mouths to feed. Since the mighty BDA has left the building, not sure what non-zerg guilds are left. The ideal is to join a guild whose actual raiding force at any given time is well south of 200 people.

[Skew]

47 raids and about 15 hours of tracking got me about 850 dkp, which was enough for zero items.

Casual


Also doesn't help to join Taken with their years and years of legacy DKP.

-damn how many DKP per hour of tracking do Taken give? That's some Federal Reserve level of inflation.

[Expediency]

basically just proves the point that it's a retarded system when you invest that much time and you can't even spend your goblintown currency

You got something better than DKP? He's asking about DKP and we're answering. You're just cluttering up the thread with poor trolling attempts.

You forget to note that this was as an applicant.

How many raids does it take to go from "applicant" to "member" so that you can earn and spend dkp with no strings attached?

[Swish]

I think that's another issue for new players joining the party late here. There's a bunch of people who've been here for years who haven't changed guilds etc with more amassed DKP than you can imagine.

Want that necro pet focus item (or something else that drops once in a blue moon)? Naw, not happening.

[Breaken]

How many raids does it take to go from "applicant" to "member" so that you can earn and spend dkp with no strings attached?

It isn't a number of raids. It is 3 weeks (In Awakened, anyway) before you are voted on.

[Cecily]

Casual


Also doesn't help to join Taken with their years and years of legacy DKP.

-damn how many DKP per hour of tracking do Taken give? That's some Federal Reserve level of inflation.

14 / hour FTE foot race. 10 / hour face tracking bind sight 3rd party program link. 6 / hour buffing.

[Syche]

47 raids and about 15 hours of tracking got me about 850 dkp, which was enough for zero items.

Zero items while in app status is pretty common. You could have bought any but four items this week with 850 dkp in our guild as a full member.

We reward trackers/fte'rs and buffers in a big way here. Great way to keep those members willing to go the extra mile engaged in getting mobs!

[Cecily]

I think that's another issue for new players joining the party late here. There's a bunch of people who've been here for years who haven't changed guilds etc with more amassed DKP than you can imagine.

Want that necro pet focus item (or something else that drops once in a blue moon)? Naw, not happening.

That really wasn't a problem in Awakened because nice items go for alot of DKP. The absolute max was 8k and most higher end stockpiles are around 1.5k atm. Real nice stuff goes for about 3k. Nice stuff 1-1.5. Shit no one wants goes for 50-100ish. All blind DKP bids so the possibility of wasting your points is super high and potential for officer corruption is there too.

My biggest deal with them was the stranglehold on control over which of your characters could bid on something. They have mains and certified alts. Certs were sold to me as a second main by some people (not the case) and basically atm they are only eligible for Kunark tier junk none of my characters would want. DKP is a finite resource. Players should be able to decide for themselves how they want to budget their points across their own characters w/o mom or dad telling them who they can gear.

The problem DKP is it puts power into the player's hands. The problem with officers is certain types of people get off on having power over others. Therefore you have to maintain that control with things like zero tolerance for human emotion policies and heavy censorship in public involving heavy dkp sanctions and threats of no ST key consideration for 6 months.

[Cecily]

Zero items while in app status is pretty common. You could have bought any but four items this week with 850 dkp in our guild as a full member.

We reward trackers/fte'rs and buffers in a big way here. Great way to keep those members willing to go the extra mile engaged in getting mobs!

I know how much what I wanted costed. Please don't reply to this or any other thread again. That sig is hideous.

[Syche]

Loots are opening up to certs shortly. They are working on it as a guild policy. They will be second mains, but there is still a lot of actual mains that need gear, so it was definitely going to be a process to getting to second mains.

Cec paints a pretty drab picture of officers, which I can understand coming from her previous guilds. We haven't had any issues over the four years I have been in Taken then Awakened with this loot system. Bid to win and you can. No class is exempt. You want a slow trident on your rogue, bid to win. You want a mana item on your sk, bid to win.

DKP is by far the best system for loot. Our blind bids allow for some colossal wastes, which I am often one of the wasters...but I get to bid on what I want.

That being said, getting back to the OP, yes you will likely, no matter where you end up, have to raid for some significant time to get top tier items.

[nhdjoseywales]

Loot in 3 easy steps

1 Move to Phinny
2 Join any raid guild on the server
3 Do weekly split raid the same targets people race for a chance for here plus maybe get some open world spawns too and gear up fast.

Doing Split Vulaks with 36 per raid > pewpsocking him for hours upon hours for a chance to race for fte and then try him with 70+

[Cecily]

Cec paints a pretty drab picture of officers, which I can understand coming from her previous guilds.

...


We haven't had any issues over the four years I have been in Taken then Awakened with this loot system. Bid to win and you can. No class is exempt. You want a slow trident on your rogue, bid to win.

No I paint a pretty drab picture of your officers, since those are the ones I've encounters recently. Gotta tell you. Watching your leadership try to kill and escape from VP is a real thing of beauty. I haven't laughed that hard in awhile. These guys kill million hp mobs.

As far as no issues with loot. That slow trident which a rogue won got him slut shamed for the better part of a week from a huge number of people in the guild and in general made him feel shit for spending his DKP on what he wanted. That is the point when your application to be my guild was denied. I was sticking around for a Baton of Flames for my ranger.

[Syche]

No I paint a pretty drab picture of your officers, since those are the ones I've encounters recently. Gotta tell you. Watching your leadership try to kill and escape from VP is a real thing of beauty. I haven't laughed that hard in awhile. These guys kill million hp mobs.

As far as no issues with loot. That slow trident which a rogue won got him slut shamed for the better part of a week from a huge number of people in the guild and in general made him feel shit for spending his DKP on what he wanted. That is the point when your application to be my guild was denied. I was sticking around for a Baton of Flames for my ranger.

This is hilarious, but we have a no drama policy in guild, so walking away from the thread before I get dkp docked. Good luck in your adventures Cec.

[Cecily]

I understand. Can't let that V-chip in your neck short circuit.

[Thulack]

This is hilarious, but we have a no drama policy in guild, so walking away from the thread before I get dkp docked. Good luck in your adventures Cec.

Still get 2 warnings? ;)

[Syche]

Still get 2 warnings? ;)

Nope Thulack and it's all I can do to not spew :).

[Cecily]

Still get 2 warnings? ;)

For RnF / drama: First warning gets you docked. Second time gets you docked harder. Third gets you docked harder still. Forth gets you kicked.
These are all clearly explained in your 80-page guild policy / procedures manual.. Jesus.

Btw I'm not making that up about 80 pages.

[Thulack]

First warning gets you docked. Second time gets you docked harder. These are all clearly explained in your 80-page guild policy / procedures manual.. Jesus.

Btw I'm not making that up.

Hey you didnt like the rules so you left. All guilds have different rules that others would find silly. Seems many are accepting of the rules so it serves it purpose. Just cause you dont agree with them doesnt mean you have to bash them. Just makes you look petty. Did you bring these issues up while you were still in the guild or just left in a huff when you couldnt get loot on any toon you wanted?

[JT4459]

No use for downers and people like you in Awakened.

I've seen people come into Awakened and get Vulak, Aow and KT loot in just 3 months. Granted this person tracks and has high RA, but basically with DKP you get what you give. Why should someone who is brand new come in and get the best items when the people who do all the work still don't have them.

[Cecily]

Hey you didnt like the rules so you left. All guilds have different rules that others would find silly. Seems many are accepting of the rules so it serves it purpose. Just cause you dont agree with them doesnt mean you have to bash them. Just makes you look petty. Did you bring these issues up while you were still in the guild or just left in a huff when you couldnt get loot on any toon you wanted?

No I got kicked for participating in derailing Chardok AE, getting an Awakened app who trained my group twice suspended, calling him out on the boards, and for supposedly claiming to be an Awakened officers (which was a lie told by angry chardok farmers which those idiots believed).

[delfi]

Grats Aetholar on Baton of Flame!

[Thulack]

No I got kicked for participating in derailing Chardok AE, getting an Awakened app who trained my group twice suspended, calling him out on the boards, and for supposedly claiming to be an Awakened officers (which was a lie told by angry chardok farmers which those idiots believed).

Lol i saw Awakened officer in your sig other day and laughed thinking how that could have happened. Makes sense now.

[Cecily]

No use for downers and people like you in Awakened.

I've seen people come into Awakened and get Vulak, Aow and KT loot in just 3 months. Granted this person tracks and has high RA, but basically with DKP you get what you give. Why should someone who is brand new come in and get the best items when the people who do all the work still don't have them.

Sounds like you're conflicted. You're bragging about how someone who works hard can get a single item of the best stuff in a "short" period of time, only a quarter of a year, and at the same bemoaning the injustice of it, since your senior members haven't all gotten it before the new guy.

I have extensive experience in mediating and causing conflicts within guilds. If you guys would like to take me back on as guild policy consultant, I'd be happy to help.

[Pokesan]

clown guild

[Trungep99]

it all depends on the guild you choose to join and how much dKP is earned per raid event / kill & how much your guild members are willing to spend on an item.

[Expediency]

All blind DKP bids so the possibility of wasting your points is super high and potential for officer corruption is there too.


They need to move to a system where winner pays second place +1. Expediency bids 1000, cecily bids 1500, cecily wins and pays 1001.

[Expediency]

This is hilarious, but we have a no drama policy in guild, so walking away from the thread before I get dkp docked. Good luck in your adventures Cec.

This thread is a real eye opener to me. You guys police speech to such a degree that you dock DKP for giving/refuting information about the guilds dkp system in a thread designed for such debate?

Zero items while in app status is pretty common. You could have bought any but four items this week with 850 dkp in our guild as a full member.



47 raids without earning even the chance of bidding on loot is common? Thats incredible. There's only 21 days in the three week app period, thats a raid attendance of more than 2 per day average.

[Erati]

47 raids without earning even the chance of bidding on loot is common? Thats incredible. There's only 21 days in the three week app period, thats a raid attendance of more than 2 per day average.

App's have plenty of chances to bid on loot - Cecily is well geared so the stuff she would like to bid on, applicants do not get to bid in the first tier.

We recently opened up everything from Kunark to any character you have tagged on the roster, this includes recruits's DKP as well. Its not the best stuff in the world, but Trak/VS/PoF Golems still do have some cool stuff and for less than 30 DKP you can pick up most of it which basically causes the raid to nearly hand you loot and DKP just for attending.

[Tycoon]

That is the point when your application to be my guild was denied.

No I got kicked

I have extensive experience causing conflicts within guilds. If you guys would like to take me back, I'd be happy to help.

The salt and tears are strong with this one.

[Cecily]

Did you get the impression that I'm angry? Good. That last part's a joke btw.

[Expediency]

It isn't a number of raids. It is 3 weeks (In Awakened, anyway) before you are voted on.

Whats the minimum number of raids you must attend in that time to be voted on? I'm sure someone cant just apply, come twice, hide out for three weeks, then get voted on if people think they are cool? Whats the cutoff?

[Cecily]

I think it was 15%. Those 47 only got me up to 24% 30 day, the number of targets and hours you have to put in on Mondays is ridiculous.

[Expediency]

Thanks for your responses. How would one become acquinted with the particular raid rules of a guild?
I wouldn't be able to swing a raid % commitment. Ideally I would like to have access to some good raid targets, without the mandatory attendance or other such rules that require a lot of time flexibility.

Just ask a recruiting officer of that guild. If they wont give you the info, thats a red flag. All dkp guilds have different setups.

[Hevie]

To achieve 15% raid attendance you would need to attend 31 out of the last 203 raids (based on the last 30 days).

I have been in <Awakened> for almost 3 months and have already bought 3 Best in slot (Tunare belt wuwu) and 6 other items I have had my eyes on for a long time. This is not including a primal! Our DKP has served me and many others very well.

I work 40-60 hours a week and otherwise I raid and track when it is convenient for me.

[Erati]

To achieve 15% raid attendance you would need to attend 31 out of the last 203 raids (based on the last 30 days).

I have been in <Awakened> for almost 3 months and have already bought 3 Best in slot (Tunare belt wuwu) and 6 other items I have had my eyes on for a long time. This is not including a primal! Our DKP has served me and many others very well.

I work 40-60 hours a week and otherwise I raid and track when it is convenient for me.

since DKP site is public these is Hevie's treasures. btw Hevie is the man.

31.05.16 Hevie The Horn of Hsagra 811
26.05.16 Hevie Girdle of Living Thorns 2333
24.05.16 Hevie Spear of Constriction 6
23.05.16 Hevie Breastplate of Eradication 1433
16.05.16 Hevie Razor Fang of Xygoz 53
11.05.16 Hevie Zlandicar's Talisman
08.05.16 Hevie War Bow of Rallos Zek 103

what a month of May for the big guy ! All those items past 30 days.

[Breaken]

This thread is a real eye opener to me. You guys police speech to such a degree that you dock DKP for giving/refuting information about the guilds dkp system in a thread designed for such debate?

We do not. It's unfortunate that Cecily felt the need to create all the drama that led to her being removed from Awakened; however, as you can see from this thread and the one in RnF, it was inevitable. If you believe we made a mistake rejecting her, please, take her in to Azure Guard. It is no skin off our back. I assure you, she will cause no drama in your guild...

As to the number of raids needed to be attended.. It would be much less since we do not batphone mobs we do not get FTE on but we seem to get the majority of FTE's, meaning the raids do rack up. We cannot control the spawn times, so them currently happening on Monday and Tuesday is unfortunate. To say it is ridiculous is a little exaggerated. I personally am not available at all on Mondays, and only after work on Tuesdays, yet I seem to keep a stable 33% Raid Attendance.

[Erati]

wow Breaken is at 33% ?????

if he can do that - anyone can !

[Pokesan]

George Washington would roll over in his grave if he heard you surrendered your free speech for pixels.

[Expediency]

We do not. It's unfortunate that Cecily felt the need to create all the drama that led to her being removed from Awakened; however, as you can see from this thread and the one in RnF, it was inevitable. If you believe we made a mistake rejecting her, please, take her in to Azure Guard. It is no skin off our back. I assure you, she will cause no drama in your guild...


This is a thread about DKP systems so the followup questions about docking are fair. Earlier in the thread an awakened member posted that they are liable to get docked if they continue to argue with cecily about the dkp system so I was curious about how that works because I did not see them posting anything anything even remotely dockable.

[Erati]

This is a thread about DKP systems so the followup questions about docking are fair. Earlier in the thread an awakened member posted that they are liable to get docked if they continue to argue with cecily about the dkp system so I was curious about how that works because I did not see them posting anything anything even remotely dockable.

he knew which direction the conversation was headed and he wanted to remove himself before he started to say something he would regret

and no you won't get docked for normal Everquest conversations - we just ask that you don't directly flame/incite people or other guilds

[xKoopa]

They need to move to a system where winner pays second place +1. Expediency bids 1000, cecily bids 1500, cecily wins and pays 1001.

Thats the old asgard loot system.. rip

[-Catherin-]

The Monday/Tuesday spawn cycle has literally killed my attendance by about 50% but Im still able to hang in there. And since we are on the subject of how much DKP? Here's my last month. Note that only one item exceeded (or even came close to) this 800 whatever. And that I also have a habit on spending a lot on something i really want. (the ring was an all in dkp bid.) From my long experience other than the ring you can get the rest of these amounts with a solid week of raiding. (no tracking at all.) This stands up to the test showing how much DKP Cecily already had in her short time with us. With only about a 25% attendance rate. In fact i believe most of these bids i made were all in. So it really shows it is not that hard to achieve even for me. Ive had stellar attendance in the past but the Monday/Tuesdays spawns have taken me down to 15%.

http://i.imgur.com/igIyw9I.jpg

As far as the DKP goes it is only natural that a recruit doesnt bid in the first round with full mains because you don't want to hand things to someone who may not end up working out. I think this case shows why it is a good idea.

To Cecily,
I never had a personal issue with you. You supported me when the rest of your guild (TMO) was doing everything they could think of to tear me down. Unless that was some huge meta-troll i still really appreciate it. But you made your decision going clearly against the Awakened way during your app period and there was an overwhelming call to end it. Regardless of how anyone feels about the situation (I hate Chardok AoE too and always turn down invites to chanter stun) ...It is what it is.

Enough to the point that you would not even have needed to count an officer's vote to still exceed what is necessary to vote out an app. I was one of those members. So unlike what you believe, it was not the officers that removed you.

I understand you are clearly upset that you wanted to be in Awakened and your application was denied. But you may want to rethink this crusade you are apparently starting while you have a chance to be accepted into another guild. I believe Aftermath was already off the table since you applied to us because we "are not Aftermath"

As far as the docking of DKP? No RnFing on the forums or in the game. Basically try to be a decent human being or stay out of it.

Bit of a wall of text but will be all I have to say on the subject. Hope it enlightened you on how "our" dkp works and the truth about the rest of the drama.

[Cecily]

To Cecily,
I never had a personal issue with you. You supported me when the rest of your guild (TMO) was doing everything they could think of to tear me down. Unless that was some huge meta-troll i still really appreciate it. But you made your decision going clearly against the Awakened way during your app period and there was an overwhelming call to end it. Regardless of how anyone feels about the situation (I hate Chardok AoE too and always turn down invites to chanter stun) ...It is what it is.


The direction they took that was completely was completely uncalled for. I apologize for how my guild mates treated you.
This'll blow over soon, but kicking me to prevent drama... Counterproductive.

[bktroost]

Silk robe is not BEST IN SLOT just saying... guess people at AG have low standards

Sal`Varae`s Robe of Darkness way better but AG will never see one =-D

Went for 1800 DKP this week.

What's funny and relevant to this post is that I can copy this, write a well worded letter about hard cores harassing our guild to their leader, which I have on Skype, and get this person docked dkp. Most hard core guilds have a no rnf dkp infection rule.

Of course I won't, but just showing that as an example. Dkp gain and loss varies wildly.

[Ele]

You got something better than DKP? He's asking about DKP and we're answering. You're just cluttering up the thread with poor trolling attempts.



How many raids does it take to go from "applicant" to "member" so that you can earn and spend dkp with no strings attached?

The only system better than DKP is being the brother or side piece of the guild leader.

[Lojik]

The only system better than DKP is being the brother or side piece of the guild leader.

The sister and the lover?

[bktroost]

Thats the old asgard loot system.. rip

That's been the AG system for close to 3 years.

[azeth]

The only system better than DKP is being the brother or side piece of the guild leader.

THIS

[Mendo]

since DKP site is public these is Hevie's treasures. btw Hevie is the man.

31.05.16 Hevie The Horn of Hsagra 811
26.05.16 Hevie Girdle of Living Thorns 2333
24.05.16 Hevie Spear of Constriction 6
23.05.16 Hevie Breastplate of Eradication 1433
16.05.16 Hevie Razor Fang of Xygoz 53
11.05.16 Hevie Zlandicar's Talisman
08.05.16 Hevie War Bow of Rallos Zek 103

what a month of May for the big guy ! All those items past 30 days.

My Eradication BP only cost me 179DKP I think. 1433 is crazy!

I miss the the good old Asgard days when some Vulak Loot would go for as low as 1dkp!

If you want BiS items, its going to cost you a lot of play time. If you are okay getting the 2nd or 3rd in slot items, you can get them pretty cheaply. At least in Aftermath that seems to be the case.

[Erati]

My Eradication BP only cost me 179DKP I think. 1433 is crazy!

I miss the the good old Asgard days when some Vulak Loot would go for as low as 1dkp!

If you want BiS items, its going to cost you a lot of play time. If you are okay getting the 2nd or 3rd in slot items, you can get them pretty cheaply. At least in Aftermath that seems to be the case.

I know it may be crazy but much like exchange rates - our two guilds have different metrics for giving out DKP and Awakened basically uses 'bigger' numbers than AM.

However the prices are actually very comparable when statisticians apply their conversion algorithms

[Hevie]

Trilok got his BP from the very next spawn for only 500 something dkp. I didn't want to take any chances with mine, though! I miss many raids due to work and I wanted to capitalize while I could. I'm happy!

[Erati]

and Tanksalot will get his on Thursday ! :D

[Trungep99]

since DKP site is public these is Hevie's treasures. btw Hevie is the man.

31.05.16 Hevie The Horn of Hsagra 811
26.05.16 Hevie Girdle of Living Thorns 2333
24.05.16 Hevie Spear of Constriction 6
23.05.16 Hevie Breastplate of Eradication 1433
16.05.16 Hevie Razor Fang of Xygoz 53
11.05.16 Hevie Zlandicar's Talisman
08.05.16 Hevie War Bow of Rallos Zek 103

what a month of May for the big guy ! All those items past 30 days.

you guys must offer a lot more dkp per hour of tracking / racing than aftermath lol & probably more per kill too. because those #'s would be nuts in our guild

[-Catherin-]

My Eradication BP only cost me 179DKP I think. 1433 is crazy!

I miss the the good old Asgard days when some Vulak Loot would go for as low as 1dkp!

If you want BiS items, its going to cost you a lot of play time. If you are okay getting the 2nd or 3rd in slot items, you can get them pretty cheaply. At least in Aftermath that seems to be the case.

I know it may be crazy but much like exchange rates - our two guilds have different metrics for giving out DKP and Awakened basically uses 'bigger' numbers than AM.

However the prices are actually very comparable when statisticians apply their conversion algorithms

you guys must offer a lot more dkp per hour of tracking / racing than aftermath lol & probably more per kill too. because those #'s would be nuts in our guild


Pretty much. Bigger numbers are harder on the officers but it's great to me because it allows a greater fine-tuning of reward and cost. For example: all people on FTE teams are not equal. The people that need to be ready on the instant to jump off the line when a pop happens are putting much more into the process than someone standing outside keeping them sowed. A Talendor kill should not be worth the same as a statue kill, and a statue kill shouldnt be worth the same as a Tunare. Bigger numbers mean you can fine tune the differences to make them as fair and as common sense as possible.

[Ravager]

Cecily should start an all dark elf rogue guild and just KS everything and then manage the DKP as she deems fit.

[Trungep99]

A Talendor kill should not be worth the same as a statue kill, and a statue kill shouldnt be worth the same as a Tunare. Bigger numbers mean you can fine tune the differences to make them as fair and as common sense as possible.

A tunare kill should be worth a good bit of DKP, but lets be real the clear to Tunare is where the real DKP should be earned ;)

[-Catherin-]

A tunare kill should be worth a good bit of DKP, but lets be real the clear to Tunare is where the real DKP should be earned ;)

Yeah, and it is with us. I'm just not going to go into every tiny detail :) If you gauge our system by our guild's success though, it works well!

[Erati]

the one thing I have noticed with the big numbers when I have browsed through AM's DKP page is that its crazy how close the 'mid tier' items are for both the guilds, even with the larger numbers here at Awakened

basically if you want something BIS from one of the major end game bosses: you are looking at 2K DKP + spending for 1 item

however

there are tons of NTOV BIS/near BIS upgrades that are going for mere pennies respectively. You can score Shiny Metallic Sleeves as Catherin showed for less than 300 DKP, thats a BIS item for INT casters and basically one raid cycle of attending nearly pays for it.

Once you have an amount that can be projected into some kind of BIS, people usually will keep their wallets tight due to the competition from their peers. This opens up tons of items that people will pick up on the cheap since they are not BIS or near to it, however there will always be items that certain people desire above else and they may bid 'out of the norm' according to the data which causes random spikes

Its all a lot of fun - I usually don't get my hopes up when sending in a bid and expect to lose so its a nice surprise when you win something.

That is unless you are an expert in DKP-Quest.

[Swish]

Unless you raid a bunch of times per week and ahead of the curve, you won't catch the jobless/work from home guys who can log in for batphones 24/7

[Maschenny]

Unless you raid a bunch of times per week and ahead of the curve, you won't catch the jobless/work from home guys who can log in for batphones 24/7

is success in life inversely related to success on p99 :(

[Swish]

So if you have a job, and other commitments - stay casual and raid with a casual guild on the same level is my advice.

I'd almost suggest joining a newish guild that hasn't got years of DKP backlogs :p

[Thulack]

is success in life inversely related to success on p99 :(

Not really. If you are successful in life you should have plenty of free time to enjoy the raiding and middle of the night batphones.

[Pokesan]

Producing offspring is the only true success in this world. Hard to find time to raid while raising children.

[Kodim]

Vulak Druid arms for 1 dkp.

Druidsssssss

[Doctor Jeff]

Some people on blue have over 8000 dkp.

[Swish]

A couple of people in a certain casual blue guild have 863 hours of earned raiding time.

They're good folks too (not salty or jaded), just able to raid a lot and been in the guild a long time.

[Fazlazen]

looks like you guys are having a blast...

[Expediency]

A couple of people in a certain casual blue guild have 863 hours of earned raiding time.

They're good folks too (not salty or jaded), just able to raid a lot and been in the guild a long time.

Thats way low. If you raid just 10 hours a week, you will have 863 hours in a year and a half.

[bktroost]

Thats way low. If you raid just 10 hours a week, you will have 863 hours in a year and a half.

I think Kimanna is up to 2k?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I think that's another issue for new players joining the party late here. There's a bunch of people who've been here for years who haven't changed guilds etc with more amassed DKP than you can imagine.


This issue right here boggles me, and I cannot believe anyone would tolerate it.

During live, the *good* DKP guilds did 2 things to eliminate this very problem:

1) every few months, everyone's DKP points were "adjusted" to encourage spending + prevent discouragement among new members. The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points. So for example: player 1 (a veteran) is at top of DKP and has 1k points, player 2 is new and is at bottom and has only 100. The adjustment would subtract z% from player 1 and add z% to player 2, to make the gap between top and bottom smaller. This method is spread out across the whole (active) roster, so that only the players at the mean (500 dkp) would remain the same. The closer you are to that mean, the less the value of z. See how that works? This adjustment is done every few months, and is *extremely* easy to implement. It is an amazing frustration/drama eliminator

2) Non-active players (ie, those not making the required attendance %) get their DKP frozen and cut by y%, and if they return the points remain frozen until they have completed q# of weeks minimum attendance to unfreeze them. They of course still earn points during this period, just cannot bid. This prevents the problem of piggish veterans just banking mega-points and then logging on only when they want an item.


A DKP guild without this adjustment/freezing system is playing its new members for suckers.

[Swish]

This issue right here boggles me, and I cannot believe anyone would tolerate it.

During live, the *good* DKP guilds did 2 things to eliminate this very problem:

1) every few months, everyone's DKP points were "adjusted" to encourage spending + prevent discouragement among new members. The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points. So for example: player 1 (a veteran) is at top of DKP and has 1k points, player 2 is new and is at bottom and has only 100. The adjustment would subtract z% from player 1 and add z% to player 2, to make the gap between top and bottom smaller. This method is spread out across the whole (active) roster, so that only the players at the mean (500 dkp) would remain the same. The closer you are to that mean, the less the value of z. See how that works? This adjustment is done every few months, and is *extremely* easy to implement. It is an amazing frustration/drama eliminator

2) Non-active players (ie, those not making the required attendance %) get their DKP frozen and cut by y%, and if they return the points remain frozen until they have completed q# of weeks minimum attendance to unfreeze them. They of course still earn points during this period, just cannot bid. This prevents the problem of piggish veterans just banking mega-points and then logging on only when they want an item.


A DKP guild without this adjustment/freezing system is playing its new members for suckers.

Makes a lot of sense honestly, but not every guild wants a system where if they take a break they're going to get hit in their dkp.

If I were guild hunting at this point I wouldn't want a well stacked DKP system where I'd have to put 50+ raiding hours in to have the chance of bidding on something that's going to be popular (for example: a vindi BP)

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Makes a lot of sense honestly, but not every guild veteran wants a system where if they take a break they're going to get hit in their dkp.

If I were guild hunting at this point I wouldn't want a well stacked DKP system where I'd have to put 50+ raiding hours in to have the chance of bidding on something that's going to be popular (for example: a vindi BP)

fixed it. the issue requires the GL or officers to simply say, this is how it is going to be. Keep in mind, the adjustment system does nothing to the actual rankings. If you were number 1, you still will be. Just not by a gazillion points. Spend those points, and if you take a break, don't expect to be able to pop back in and take a spot at the head of a line just because you were awesome 6 months ago. Deal with it.

Really, any dkp guild that does not use this system is gulling its new members.

[Thulack]

fixed it. the issue requires the GL or officers to simply say, this is how it is going to be. Keep in mind, the adjustment system does nothing to the actual rankings. If you were number 1, you still will be. Just not by a gazillion points. Spend those points, and if you take a break, don't expect to be able to pop back in and take a spot at the head of a line just because you were awesome 6 months ago. Deal with it.

Really, any dkp guild that does not use this system is gulling its new members.

See the thing is with a bidding system like Awakened has in that its blind bidding people overspend(as in bid much higher then 2nd place) regularly for items. This helps keep the dkp at reasonable levels. You want a nice item you bid or go home. So every raid there was a good portion of DKP that was spent that might not have been with a system like 2nd highest+1 is winner.

[Joyelle]

See the thing is with a bidding system like Awakened has in that its blind bidding people overspend(as in bid much higher then 2nd place) regularly for items. This helps keep the dkp at reasonable levels. You want a nice item you bid or go home. So every raid there was a good portion of DKP that was spent that might not have been with a system like 2nd highest+1 is winner.

This is pretty accurate. The turnover rate of dkp leaders in our system is pretty crazy. People often bid very high or even all in on BiS items, so most of the people that had "years of legacy dkp" have been back down to almost 0 dkp several times since Awakened was formed (I am one of these). The DKP values are quite inflated over what they were in Taken, so all that legacy dkp probably equals one good item.

Our top 2 dkp holders right now came from Rampage. I believe all of our top 20 have amassed most of their current DKP in the past 4 months. They also are the ones who track/FTE the most so of course they deserve to be on top.

[Trungep99]

This is pretty accurate. The turnover rate of dkp leaders in our system is pretty crazy. People often bid very high or even all in on BiS items, so most of the people that had "years of legacy dkp" have been back down to almost 0 dkp several times since Awakened was formed (I am one of these). The DKP values are quite inflated over what they were in Taken, so all that legacy dkp probably equals one good item.

Our top 2 dkp holders right now came from Rampage. I believe all of our top 20 have amassed most of their current DKP in the past 4 months. They also are the ones who track/FTE the most so of course they deserve to be on top.

i see a lot of that with Asgard to Aftermath. many of the old members had tons of legacy DKP coming into velious and are now very decked out.

[Expediency]

This issue right here boggles me, and I cannot believe anyone would tolerate it.

During live, the *good* DKP guilds did 2 things to eliminate this very problem:

1) every few months, everyone's DKP points were "adjusted" to encourage spending + prevent discouragement among new members. The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points. So for example: player 1 (a veteran) is at top of DKP and has 1k points, player 2 is new and is at bottom and has only 100. The adjustment would subtract z% from player 1 and add z% to player 2, to make the gap between top and bottom smaller. This method is spread out across the whole (active) roster, so that only the players at the mean (500 dkp) would remain the same. The closer you are to that mean, the less the value of z. See how that works? This adjustment is done every few months, and is *extremely* easy to implement. It is an amazing frustration/drama eliminator



Are you kidding? Why would anyone tolerate this? Whats the point of keeping DKP at all if you're just going to redistribute them every few months? Some guy comes and does all the heavy lifting and earns 4x as much DKP as another player, then you swoop in and "adjust" it by handing his hard earned points to a person who does far less. If I was in a guild that penalized me in this way, I would leave immediately. There is zero reason to get your DKP above the average since you're just going to lose it. Its a race to the bottom.

[Expediency]

2) Non-active players (ie, those not making the required attendance %) get their DKP frozen and cut by y%, and if they return the points remain frozen until they have completed q# of weeks minimum attendance to unfreeze them. They of course still earn points during this period, just cannot bid. This prevents the problem of piggish veterans just banking mega-points and then logging on only when they want an item.


At least this is a blanket application, instead of an adjustment based on success. Still, its dumb, because the heavy hitters in the guild didnt just spring up out of nowhere. They worked over time to help the guild grow, and once they obtain a BiS item, you will never have to compete with them again for that item slot but you still benefit from what they bring to the table every raid. It sounds like your agenda is to take advantage of people who play all the time and not give them credit where credit is due. Nothing is stopping you from being at the top of the DKP charts, just play a few years 24/7 like they did.

[azeth]

You sure have some strong fucking opinions about a system you're not included nor ever will be included in.

[ridiculousmoose]

You sure have some strong fucking opinions about a system you're not included nor ever will be included in.

ok

[Endonde]

I participated in Taken's loot system for a while, I can confirm it was awful. Too much inflation, and people padding their dkp by pretending to track, but I've yet to see a decent loot system on P99, and probably never will since there is so much greed here.

[Thulack]

I participated in Taken's loot system for a while, I can confirm it was awful. Too much inflation, and people padding their dkp by pretending to track, but I've yet to see a decent loot system on P99, and probably never will since there is so much greed here.

Dottedup was only in the guild for so long :D

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Are you kidding? Why would anyone tolerate this? Whats the point of keeping DKP at all if you're just going to redistribute them every few months? Some guy comes and does all the heavy lifting and earns 4x as much DKP as another player, then you swoop in and "adjust" it by handing his hard earned points to a person who does far less. If I was in a guild that penalized me in this way, I would leave immediately. There is zero reason to get your DKP above the average since you're just going to lose it. Its a race to the bottom.

you are very bad at math. Or reading.

The adjustments only apply to active players. Which means, the newer player with low dkp is currently doing approx. as much as the high dkp veteran.

And, one never loses one's ranking. But look, if you are not going to try to understand the system I laid out, well, this is a waste of my time.

I think you are just trying to protect a system that ensures senior members always will have a huge dkp lead. An adjustment system does not allow that kind of cushy setup.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

See the thing is with a bidding system like Awakened has in that its blind bidding people overspend(as in bid much higher then 2nd place) regularly for items. This helps keep the dkp at reasonable levels. You want a nice item you bid or go home. So every raid there was a good portion of DKP that was spent that might not have been with a system like 2nd highest+1 is winner.

blind bidding is also a tool to avoid top-heavy dkp lists.

But I never was in a blind bidding guild. I was always in /gu open competitive bidding. trust me, it was a hoot. Especially on weekend nights (ie, drunken raiders) you could sometimes goad people to get into bidding wars. It was.... fun :)

edit: you can take a look at my 2004 magelo to see what I managed to get under such a system. Got my guild's second talisman of vah kerrath for example. http://eq.magelo.com/profile/482891 If you know loot timleines, you know that no way could i get that gear by 2004 w/o playing hardcore. But the adjustment/freezing system still allowed me to get what i wanted. It required me to keep on my toes and fuckin raid, however. The AG persons complaining want a system where you can go casual and still be top dog. As I said, no idea why any new member would tolerate such a system. Awakened sounds more equitable.

[Expediency]

The adjustments only apply to active players. Which means, the newer player with low dkp is currently doing approx. as much as the high dkp veteran.

And, one never loses one's ranking. But look, if you are not going to try to understand the system I laid out, well, this is a waste of my time.

Sounds like a dodge to me. The way you wrote it sure sounds like you're redistributing points and calling it an "adjustment"

"The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points."

So both of us join a guild at the same time, I get 1000 dkp, you get 100, the average of that period for everyone is 500, so one guy loses some and the other guy gains some so they are both closer to 500?

Set me straight, because that sounds like a straight up con

[Expediency]

blind bidding is also a tool to avoid top-heavy dkp lists.

The AG persons complaining want a system where you can go casual and still be top dog. As I said, no idea why any new member would tolerate such a system. Awakened sounds more equitable.

To each their own I guess. I value the points I earn and I dont want to piss them away in schemes that were concocted to keep everyone artificially more equal than they really are. Some people spend years helping a guild and raiding, others come twice a week. The former deserve what they earn and them having an edge seems like justice to me.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

you still are not understanding the system, Expediency. "active raiders" does not = twice a week show ups. Try to add up what I said. You are an officer, I am hoping you can read. Either that, or you are just simply fronting to protect a cushy system for casual veterans.

[Expediency]

you still are not understanding the system, Expediency. "active raiders" does not = twice a week show ups. Try to add up what I said. You are an officer, I am hoping you can read. Either that, or you are just simply fronting to protect a cushy system for casual veterans.

We dont have a "minimum raid percentage" necessary to spend points, so you're going to have to quit assuming that I can read your mind if you want me to understand this system.

I'm also not a veteran, I joined p99 last year, so I do not stand to benefit from these legacy systems. Proud to be casual though, the idea that you have to be at 50 raids a month to spend the points you earn does not appeal to me at all. If someone wants to raid twice a month and only buy one item a year, thats justice. There's a reason why some of the casual guilds have been around for years while the top guilds burn out and have to reform.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

If someone wants to raid twice a month and only buy one item a year, thats justice. There's a reason why some of the casual guilds have been around for years while the top guilds burn out and have to reform.

A+ couldn't agree more.

Some of us have lives outside of elfsims and train related hobbies.

[nhdjoseywales]

We dont have a "minimum raid percentage" necessary to spend points, so you're going to have to quit assuming that I can read your mind if you want me to understand this system.

I'm also not a veteran, I joined p99 last year, so I do not stand to benefit from these legacy systems. Proud to be casual though, the idea that you have to be at 50 raids a month to spend the points you earn does not appeal to me at all. If someone wants to raid twice a month and only buy one item a year, thats justice. There's a reason why some of the casual guilds have been around for years while the top guilds burn out and have to reform.

The problem comes in when people raid for years and run out of things to spend dkp on. then it gets hoarded to the point that a person who actually now only plays once a month has a huge dkp lead over current active players and can log in on the nights he wants and take any loot he chooses then log back off til next loot time. Since you have no minimum RA to bid this is a very real issue.

Our guild does cap DKP monthly to encourage you to spend it on upgrades instead of hoarding it. We have a minimum ra requirement to bid past a certain amount. We also do open guildchat bids so everyone knows who wants what and how badly. this system seems to fairly gear people and i really have no complaints

[Culkasi]

The problem comes in when people raid for years and run out of things to spend dkp on. then it gets hoarded to the point that a person who actually now only plays once a month has a huge dkp lead over current active players and can log in on the nights he wants and take any loot he chooses then log back off til next loot time. Since you have no minimum RA to bid this is a very real issue.

Our guild does cap DKP monthly to encourage you to spend it on upgrades instead of hoarding it. We have a minimum ra requirement to bid past a certain amount. We also do open guildchat bids so everyone knows who wants what and how badly. this system seems to fairly gear people and i really have no complaints

Coming from a guild who has members who have that hording because of ages without any loot to bid on (myself included) - its a made up issue. I understand why it in theory looks like that, but it doesn't happen. Either because, if you are so casual, you are just not going to be there when we actually kill something cool, or because, GASP, we mostly have good non-greedy people in our guilds who play nice :)

[Daldaen]

DKP systems work themselves out so long as they aren't too terribly stupid.

I knew of one guild on live where items all had a set price and the person who put in for the item with the top DKP won the item for that minimum. Problem was after 9 years in the guild there were 3-4 people who could win BiS in each expansion and stay on top.

Expansion locked servers like P99, Al'Kabor and other emulated servers have an interesting problem to deal with in that your gear remains relevant even if you took a 3 year break. So you don't need a complete overhaul in your gear like you would on live to make your character useful after several expansions out of the loop. This makes there be a much more compelling case for some sort of decay system.

But I've always viewed DKP as a currency paid out for your time raiding or helping your guild. So taking it away because you've been gone about sounds pretty stupid. There are other ways to prevent people from disappearing and then coming back to snag all the best stuff from people who are new or continually active.

[Lojik]

Offer valid until until 6/31/2016
Not valid with other offers
Blackout dates may apply

[bktroost]

The problem comes in when people raid for years and run out of things to spend dkp on. then it gets hoarded to the point that a person who actually now only plays once a month has a huge dkp lead over current active players and can log in on the nights he wants and take any loot he chooses then log back off til next loot time. Since you have no minimum RA to bid this is a very real issue.

Since you have no minimum RA to bid this is a very real issue.

You would have to work hard to identify for me the actual problem here and what time frame we are talking. AG has a dkp rot system to consider those who disappear for 2 years and come back for 1 night when something nice drops. For every month you don't raid anything at any time at least once you will be deducted 10% of your current total dkp.

So if someone shows up once a month and raids and gets a nice item...then great. We raid a LOT in AG. If someone attended every raid in AG they certainly would be hardcore...without a doubt. All hours, batphones are flying and content is dying. But none of it is required and if you show up to just one of those then you avoid rot.


I believe this shows that we value the person rather than what they "bring to the table" in a guild that is designed to be a raiding guild. We make no apologies about being a raiding guild and making everything available, but we don't push high end pressure and what ultimately leads to burnout. Patience and progressive activity is the key to sustainability.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Sounds doable Nemce. My original post was just due to the fact I only did dkp guilds during live, a lot, and feel i know the problems, and some solutions. your dkp rot is also a good solution.

Stepping back from pixel lust, the goal, right, is to prevent frustration for newer members, and to prevent a permanent top rank of players who can win any time they want, always. One wants things to get mixed up. It's not about "rewarding" people who aren't putting in effort. It's about making sure a dkp system doesn't harden into a fixed loot hierarchy. That is why my personal fave is the /gu open bidding strat. Get two drunk raiders and egg them on and boom, at the end someone has just dropped 80% of their dkp. And everyone has a good laugh the next day )

edit: that is how i got my talisman. we had just got into vex thal, and first one was reserved for the MT. Next one, I dropped megatons of dkp in bidding. Then I started saving again. Used to raid nearly every day back then, ah youth.