Is P99 today a better game of than EQ live in 2001 ?

[Izmael]

Talking strictly about the Blue server.

I have the feeling that P99 today is better. The devs had years to make small adjustments to resists, drop rates, pathing and whatnot and I commend pretty much all of their decisions (except maybe the removal of the buff timers). This made EQ a better game that what it was during Velious era on live.

Do you agree or not, and why?

[azeth]

P99 for your first few months in my opinion is as exhilarating as your entire live career. everything was new on live.

a year, or for me 6 years, into p99 and its not really everquest anymore... its P99

[Erati]

its not really everquest anymore... its P99

Azeth speaks the truth! Your in our world now!

[Ivory]

Live eq back in the day was full of adventure and unknown ....

If a new server opened it would come a lotttt closer to the magic of live EQ than what we have now. Really, the first 6 months or even a year of a new server is pretty nice. But now most zones are empty except for a couple grind spots between 1-50.... and if you do find a group, everyone is twinked.

Becomes just about higher end farming and exp grinding.

[Tecmos Deception]

. But now most zones are empty except for a couple grind spots between 1-50.... and if you do find a group, everyone is twinked.

Becomes just about higher end farming and exp grinding.

You're exaggerating.

There were TWELVE people in paw a few days ago when I logged in. I was almost never the only person in the zone at any point in the day. There was a full group of nontwinks (or if they were twinked it was with like only several k pp) near entrance for a couple hours.

That's an anecdote, sure. But my time leveling on blue the past couple weeks is pretty full of anecdotes like this. I haven't run into PLing or fungi twinks except in solusek a. I've seen (mostly) untwinked groups/players xping in kerra isle, every karana, oot, najena, Sola, paw, and more.

The xp game is alive and well all around blue, maybe moreso than ever before. Do / count all and / count all 60 and see first hang that it isn't all about farming gear. The 10 people messing around in Chardonnay are fewer than the people in one lowbie dungeon xping. Etc.

[azeth]

The 10 people messing around in Chardonnay are fewer than the people in one lowbie dungeon xping. Etc.

lol is this an autocorrected "Solusek A"?

[Amyas]

Yes the server isn't down non stop =P

[Ivory]

The xp game is alive and well all around blue, maybe moreso than ever before.

That's the thing...it is all an exp game. No one is doing quests for upgrades or trying to hunt their own weapon upgrades. Just show up in commons with 100pp and you can get a pretty decent weapon.

The server is just SOOOO old that there is SOOO much stuff floating around.

It changes things big time. Even just being able to find a port anywhere at any time (while pretty convenient) was never what real EQ was like.

But at least they have plans to eventually open a new green server.....it will be pretty glorious :3

[Troxx]

Live in 2001 was better simply because the population was spread out more evenly in the low levels with a paucity of guys level 60.

.... That and the server wasn't 6-7 years old in 2001, contributing to item bloat and deflation.

p99 is better than Live EQ currently by a long shot though

[derpcake]

i guess OP never played on live

sure pal, after 5 years of kunark stagnation, p1999 is the pinnacle of EQ

[Danth]

After 5 years Live was in Gates of Discord. Yuck!

Comparing P1999 to EQ from 2001 seems a bit odd; 2001-era EQ was two years old, not six. I rate P1999 as the better game anyhow due to having a nicer client than EQ had in 2001 plus improved server stability and lower latency. I've played P1999 for longer than I played live.

Danth

[dafier]

No. Not even close.

[Sage Truthbearer]

We barely had time to experience an expansion before the next one was already out on live.

Classic: March 1999
Kunark: March 2000
Velious: December 2000

On P99, the server has been out for 7 years and it only relatively recently got Velious.

Classic: October 2009
Kunark: March 2011
Velious: July 2015

[MammothMafia]

^ this. we are all older and have more things to do. p99 gives people time to experience the content without a new expansion coming out trivializing everything.

[MammothMafia]

and imo, a green server will be the end and destruction of p99. some ppl will switch. some wont. Servers will have 500ppl max on them and the poopsockers of blue will be the poopsockers of green and all the prenerf rare items will still be in the same peoples hands

[Jimjam]

We barely had time to experience an expansion before the next one was already out on live.

Classic: March 1999
Kunark: March 2000
Velious: December 2000

On P99, the server has been out for 7 years and it only relatively recently got Velious.

Classic: October 2009
Kunark: March 2011
Velious: July 2015

I totally agree here, expansions really flew out, many casuals from '99 still levelling up their first character even when PoP was released.

What I've enjoyed with p99 is being able to really get my teeth into Norrath at my own pace, without the worry of content being too invalidated, or everyone cramming into the latest 'xp highway'/leaving old zones for dead.

I'd love a server stuck pre-fear/hate/sky with no expansions... I'd also like one with ONLY luclin (and maybe a tutorial for non-kitties to level high enough for PC).

[Ivory]

and imo, a green server will be the end and destruction of p99. some ppl will switch. some wont. Servers will have 500ppl max on them and the poopsockers of blue will be the poopsockers of green and all the prenerf rare items will still be in the same peoples hands

Most people are going to switch. It will revitalize the game for most people who never got to experience anything but a stale server where all those "pre nerf items" weren't even dropping anymore anyway.

The big problem will be when to release expansions....I think JUST being original game for a year before Kunark might be a little much? Things will get pretty crowded fast like that.....

I would prefer a server will all of the expansions, but then you run into timeline problems and classic item problems.

But either way, things would be so fun on a new server!

[botrainer]

the raiding on this server blows. Far from classic by a long shot.

[botrainer]

Most people are going to switch. It will revitalize the game for most people who never got to experience anything but a stale server where all those "pre nerf items" weren't even dropping anymore anyway.

The big problem will be when to release expansions....I think JUST being original game for a year before Kunark might be a little much? Things will get pretty crowded fast like that.....

I would prefer a server will all of the expansions, but then you run into timeline problems and classic item problems.

But either way, things would be so fun on a new server!


Its a fun idea, but you'll have hardcore folks camping both servers at once...already have people playing blue and red...would need to IP block them if they are on 1 server to not allow them on both servers at once.

[Thulack]

the raiding on this server blows. Far from classic by a long shot.

[Lojik]

1-59 is pretty fun on this server, the prevalence of items floating around makes xping a lot less tedious. On live you had whole groups single camping one or two spawns in a dungeon, here if more than one group is in a zone people think it's "packed." High end raiding is bad but I never really did it on live, there is no mystery here really though. I'd say it's a tossup

[Baler]

One reason that is fact why live was better back in the day.

There was far less min/maxing and 99.9% accurate information available on the internet.

Things felt more magical.

[Kevris]

One reason that is fact why live was better back in the day.

There was far less min/maxing and 99.9% accurate information available on the internet.

Things felt more magical.

This.

It's not a game about elves anymore. It's Moneyball.

[Lune]

I had a much better time on P99 than I ever did on live.

I was also a little younger during live than many others here. I mostly played Luclin.

[Izmael]

i guess OP never played on live

sure pal, after 5 years of kunark stagnation, p1999 is the pinnacle of EQ

I led a raiding guild in 2001 on live.

Also, everyone answered the wrong question "Was your EQ experience better in 2001 or on p99?"

My question was "Was the GAME better then or now?"

Oh well, lesson learned. When taking a poll, make sure the question can't be misinterpreted. That's why referendums are a joke 9 times out of 10. People answer the wrong questions.

[Thulack]

I led a raiding guild in 2001 on live.

Also, everyone answered the wrong question "Was your EQ experience better in 2001 or on p99?"

My question was "Was the GAME better then or now?"

Oh well, lesson learned. When taking a poll, make sure the question can't be misinterpreted. That's why referendums are a joke 9 times out of 10. People answer the wrong questions.

It was better then because it was new and more exciting. Nothing is more fun the second time around except maybe sex.

[Tankdan]

That's a clown question, bro.

[Daywolf]

live was rushed and buggy while expansions flew out of the machine. Party members always getting dropped, waiting for them to relog. Zones crashing around you. Broken boats dropping you into the middle of nowhere. Popular spots just way overcrowded. In comparison, UO was doing way better at the time, though had it's own issues. Getting off work, sometimes couldn't even play EQ, but UO was always there. EQ improved over time... well to a point of course.

The difference is just that the emu has had the time to work out problems. I was logging into PEQ over 10yrs ago when there were maybe a dozen people on the only server running in the list, and it was just to log in as there was hardly a game.

I thought discord was suppose to be green, but if there is another blue, here is to hoping it goes at half the release pace which will pretty much resolve all...most of the original problems on live.

[Tecmos Deception]

That's the thing...it is all an exp game. No one is doing quests for upgrades or trying to hunt their own weapon upgrades. Just show up in commons with 100pp and you can get a pretty decent weapon.

The server is just SOOOO old that there is SOOO much stuff floating around.

It changes things big time. Even just being able to find a port anywhere at any time (while pretty convenient) was never what real EQ was like.

But at least they have plans to eventually open a new green server.....it will be pretty glorious :3

People quest their own gear and get their own drops all the time. Just because you aren't or you see some fungi seiftblade twink in the tunnel standing around doesnt mean shit.

Hard to find ports on live? Please. Live at this time had double our pop per server, and druids were at least as common there (and wizards probably more common) than on here.

I'm not saying the server isn't different than live. It's timeline and population and wiki and stuff make the gameplay a lot different. But it is a lot the same too.

[mr_jon3s]

Live was way better for one simple reason. People didn't know shit. Everyone knows everything now and the game has no real mystery.

[Swish]

Live was way better for one simple reason. People didn't know shit. Everyone knows everything now and the game has no real mystery.

True, the wiki makes sure everything is covered too.

[Skinned]

P99 all the way. This could be because that as a person I'm more intelligent, more skilled, and a better gamer than I was that long ago, because my characters have advanced in gear and level much faster this go around. 'Knowing' everything hasn't hindered me too much because with this increase in capability has come with a different way to handle content. Plus there is enough content that the leveling path doesn't need to be the same way twice. I haven't played in the LOIO or Frontier Mountains ever on P99 because I played them to death on live when they were brand new...but places like Guk or Kaesora lie available, and with deeper pockets, more toys to use, and being better at the game, I can do more than I ever could before.

I think a lot of the people who play P99 are older, usually from the original series, and more diehard, since they could have gone to easier MMOs like many people a long time ago.

[ridiculousmoose]

No 24 hour+ downtimes... p99 wins!

[Jimjam]

Live was way better for one simple reason. People didn't know shit. Everyone knows everything now and the game has no real mystery.

I dunno, there are still a lot of misconceptions and differences of opinion now, especially when grouping in the 20s-30s when people are only really just learning their new character (in my opinion a big part of what makes those levels fun).

[Zuranthium]

The game in 2001 was much more about adventuring and discovering things and taking risks and enjoying the environment. Less than it was in 1999 or 2000, but still way more than it is here. Even if you just looked online for the best places to grind/farm back then, and printed out all the information you could find about everything, it was still a different game. People were more open to doing things that were simply fun.

Perhaps it's just because less was known back then, but I think even beyond that there was a different attitude. Being in the game to enjoy it, not being in the game simply to "beat" it, which is what the mentality kept becoming more and more as the game existed. People these days could do dungeon crawls for fun, a nice challenging single-group endeavor that's not trying to specifically camp anything or get a drop, but who does?

If there is another blue server, here is to hoping it goes at half the release pace which will pretty much resolve all...most of the original problems on live.

That wouldn't come anywhere close to resolving the problems this game has. Severely outdated and unbalanced combat system, lack of dynamic content, lack of incentive to do anything but wiki and power-path your way through the game. People keep thinking that resets will "fix" the state of p99 servers, but it never will. As long as the ruleset remains the same, everyone is just going to keep doing the same shit.

The game as it stands now is a memorial. Something meant to be occasionally viewed and visited just as a reminder of history, not something you should spend a lot of time engaging in. We must learn from history and make something better, that's the only way forward.

[Baler]

I thought discord was suppose to be green, .

my understanding is:
Green is the classic - velious new blue server.
Purple is the team pvp server.
Discord is Discord, FFA pvp no rules.

[Tecmos Deception]

Everyone knows everything now

You're definitely exaggerating. We definitely all know more now, but it isn't close to everyone knowing everything.

[Mortiis]

[QUOTE=Jimjam;2301919]I totally agree here, expansions really flew out, many casuals from '99 still levelling up their first character even when PoP was released.

I was one of those.

What I've enjoyed with p99 is being able to really get my teeth into Norrath at my own pace.

This. I've been able to see and do a hell of a lot more on 99 than I ever did on live.

[myriverse]

Well... it's free.

But I still think EQ Live was better in 2001. Especially after Dec 4 2001.

Cats on da moon!:p:cool::D

[Brontus]

Lots of great points here both pro and con. P1999 is amazing in many ways as it brings us back to what EQ live used to be like. But I think EQ Live was better. Here are some my reasons:


Rigid interpretation of what constitutes classic EQ means we are frozen at Velious

Limited meaningful admin and dev dialogue with the playerbase

High level farmers camping named mobs in every zone which has created mudflation that has ruined the "classic EQ" experience as most newbies are twinked to the hilt

Powerleveling is everywhere

Bard swarm kiting

Except for once a year on Halloween, no GM and Guide quests/events on P1999

Not enough content for level 60 players

[Issar]

For me, P99 is better. Six plus years since launch and P99 is more EverQuest than EQ was after six years past it's launch. That being said, I loved the game still in 2001, but the space cat expansion at the end of the year definitely didn't sit right with me. I didn't hate it, but the game never felt the same. When the Green 99 server launches, I would expect that a lot of us will be excited to start playing from scratch with everyone else. Ask the question after that and we will likely see different responses.

[Khaleesi]

Lots of great points here both pro and con. P1999 is amazing in many ways as it brings us back to what EQ live used to be like. But I think EQ Live was better. Here are some my reasons:


Rigid interpretation of what constitutes classic EQ means we are frozen at Velious

Limited meaningful admin and dev dialogue with the playerbase

High level farmers camping named mobs in every zone which has created mudflation that has ruined the "classic EQ" experience as most newbies are twinked to the hilt

Powerleveling is everywhere

Bard swarm kiting

Except for once a year on Halloween, no GM and Guide quests/events on P1999

Not enough content for level 60 players



And too much time between now and the original EQ, has led to excessive knowledge gathering and therefore manipulation of content before it even launched (e.g. the perfect strategies practiced on test servers and other EMU locations).

The fact that Rampage took down the warders only to awake a mob that will never be beaten, showed such disregard and arrogance that it is the symbolic nail in the coffin for this server.
It was something akin to the hording of items approach by TMO, yet more greedy and definitive.

If you separated the raid scene from the rest of the server, with considerably less item saturation, power levelling, whatever the fu** that weak Chardok nonsense is and returned to something more organic, then we'd be where we should - a place for aged EverQuest veterans to relive nostaligia's good parts, with little of the bad.

Instead we ended up with a festering cesspool for EverQuest veterans to relive nostaligia's bad parts.

Rogean should release the source code, close the server and let other people go off and make their own.

[Wowbagger]

I have a soft spot in my heart for both - and for conflicting reasons...

P99's low population is fantastic and frustrating.
EQ circa 2001's high population was fantastic and frustrating.

The fascination, exploration, and "how do we split this camp?" mechanics, for example, which are second nature, old hat, and nostalgia now... were platforms for fantastic nights of joyous failure among friends/guildies back then. Can't be recreated... and I can't really compare the two without too many caveats to render the comparison moot.

I love 'em both.

/fence
/sit

[stormlord]

Live was better because we didn't know everything yet. There was so much unknown. Everything was new.

The mudflation is probably worse on p1999 too. (I see another poster mentioned this.)

I do like the gameplay and still like it. I look for it in games/MMOs I play. Not all of it, but a lot of it.

Things like:
* no in-game radar
* first-person 3d
* limited maps (no gps)
* aggro trains (possible at least)
* maze-like dungeons (qeynos sewers and guk come to mind)
* unique items (not spreadsheet items) with meaningful choices about what you use
* weight encumbrance and inventory limits
* death penalty
* sandboxxy progression--not a obvious/forced path to push everybody into certain places
* classes which're different (and not just copy/pasted versions of each other)
* open world/non-instanced
* high-level KOS mobs sometimes appearing in lower level areas

There're other things and sometimes I want particular things. That's just a general list.

[cormag]

the min/maxing, twinking, farming, selling of epics, etc. make it a completely different animal

theres better things about it, like bug fixes and stuff and theres worse things about it, mostly player/community related

[Mortiis]

P99 all the way. This could be because that as a person I'm more intelligent, more skilled, and a better gamer than I was that long ago, because my characters have advanced in gear and level much faster this go around. 'Knowing' everything hasn't hindered me too much because with this increase in capability has come with a different way to handle content. Plus there is enough content that the leveling path doesn't need to be the same way twice. I haven't played in the LOIO or Frontier Mountains ever on P99 because I played them to death on live when they were brand new...but places like Guk or Kaesora lie available, and with deeper pockets, more toys to use, and being better at the game, I can do more than I ever could before.

I think a lot of the people who play P99 are older, usually from the original series, and more diehard, since they could have gone to easier MMOs like many people a long time ago.

This.
I agree some of the mystery is gone. However, there are still places I haven't seen and experienced yet. EQ is vast and I think this is the pace the original needed to see and do everything you wanted to. Like mentioned earlier some people were still working on their mains when PoP came out. You can create several different characters now with a complete different experience if you choose to. I also enjoy p99 with current technology, period.
I'm not as lost this time around. One stop shopping on the wiki, as opposed to checking three different sites for a common denominator from the comment section.

There are tons of valid points to be made between the experiences of 2001 and p99. Overall, I believe P99 wins.

[Nune]

Here's a metaphor:

EQ was like a first love. I thought about it every day, i wanted it every day, I blew things off to spend time with it I shouldnt have, but I was really young and didnt really understand what I was doing. We got older together, grew together, made friendships with other people that still last to this day. But then EQ changed (Luclin for me), and even though it was still the EQ I loved, it was different now. My love for it kind of grew apart and eventually it came to an end. So, P99 is like a time machine that lets me go date my first love again. I know what I did wrong, I know the best and worst aspects, I know what to focus on and what to avoid. But it could never be the same, just highly nostalgic.

P99 is way more noob friendly anyways. Kunark was out forever so gear is 1000x more easily accessible and pennies on the dollar compared to live. There's a lot less devious characters which is a huge pro for P99. Getting scammed, people using bugs to con you, people "lagging out" while transferring for you kind of problems occur waaaaaay less here than on live. p99, however, def has a lot more "burned out on the game but log in everyday" type crowd. The Raiding scene has been malicious, though better lately. I remember it being very competitive on live also, but it seemed to have more sportsmanship. Even coming from Tallon Zek where you didnt sock a wall for 18 hours to kill a dragon, you showed up and fought the guild that mobilized first, there was respect among the competition. All in all, P99 is amazing and I'm grateful for the staff that has to put up with us and still deliver such a well executed product

[R Flair]

No contest, p99 is plagued with muflation making your achievements feel far less important than they were on live.

Would they fix this by offering separate servers that rotation thru expansion on a proper timeline, it would be a very different story.

[Angushjalmur]

Live was better because everything was new.

P99 hit the nostalgia button hard though.

[drktmplr12]

No 24 hour+ downtimes... p99 wins!

Weekly resets

EQ Live 2000 wins!

[Bwils]

On live I started on end of Luclin beginning of PoP. I started here when server opened. First 8 months of this server opening was the most fun I had on everquest.

[Gondule]

Can't personally say if it's better or not but let me say this instead. Coming from someone who missed this game by about 6 years (first MMORPG was Vanilla WoW) I have to say this has been the most enjoyable experience I have had playing an MMORPG in literal years. Me and my friend are really pumped for Pantheon so we figured we'd give this game a try and boy I'm glad we have. I just wanna play all the time but RL interrupts quite often but other than that I just love how immersive this game is.

[fash]

No, its a shell of its former glory with the mystery completely gone. I don't think you can have the same type of mmo experience in a modern mmo due to how effective we've become at wikifying game knowledge. Traveling across oot or lake rathetear without the fear of an unknown giant sea monster devouring your character is a materially worse experience.

[yorumi]

I think the problem is so many people posting played EQ absolutely to death back on live and have experienced and done everything possible so it's not longer as fun. If you wern't a hardcore raided back then, then p99 is quite a lot better experience overall.

I played EQ a lot back up through POP but was never really a high end player. To me p99 offer a lot of adventure. Wiki ruining everything? On the contrary it lets me experience quests and zones and things I just flat out never knew existed. I can select zones I've never been to before and experience a new side of EQ. I'm playing classes I never played on live because I understand them better and get a more fulfilling experience.

Twinking? Please, twinking was just as prominent on live. Maybe it was a bit harder to afford a fungi but beyond that there was always a fbss available on live, and it was never hard to get good weapons and basic stat gear too on live.

Everquest is what you make of it, there's plenty of grouping going on, and questing, and exploring. I rather like knowing about things rather than going through the world dazed and confused just hoping i'm not making a fool of myself.

[Stormfists]

pathing

Jesus what fucking server are you even on? Pathing here is absolute dog.

[big_ole_jpn]

Small group content (the good part) is way better. Try levelling a cleric in 2001/2 without a PL. Not being able to solo on live was crippling.

I hate how nodrop items are "NO TRADE" tho

[sacman08]

Live was much better. The biggest reason was lots more people played on live and it was much easier to get into a large guild (or a guild large enough) to progress through raids or even just in guild groups where they were helpful in farming gear to make your character better.
Ya sure sometimes it was a pain on a busy Saturday when people would be KS because so many people were in one area or whatever, but it was still fun. More fun than I have ever experienced on P99.
P99 isn't bad, I really enjoy that old school EQ game feel but it's different and you better get use to a lot of solo play unless you have talked a group of your person RL friends to gmae with you.

[Izmael]

Jesus what fucking server are you even on? Pathing here is absolute dog.

Have you played live circa Velious launch? Pathing was so much worse then. Especially in weird zones like velk, kedge or (shiver) SG. Mobs were getting stuck or would fall under the world all the time (if you were particularly lucky, they would even summon you there!)

[Izmael]

I hate how nodrop items are "NO TRADE" tho

Maybe whoever maintains dsetup.dll can patch it? That would rock.

Also change TEMPORARY to NO RENT while you're at it, please.

[big_ole_jpn]

Live was much better. The biggest reason was lots more people played on live and it was much easier to get into a large guild (or a guild large enough) to progress through raids or even just in guild groups where they were helpful in farming gear to make your character better.
Ya sure sometimes it was a pain on a busy Saturday when people would be KS because so many people were in one area or whatever, but it was still fun. More fun than I have ever experienced on P99.
P99 isn't bad, I really enjoy that old school EQ game feel but it's different and you better get use to a lot of solo play unless you have talked a group of your person RL friends to gmae with you.

What live server did you play on that was more crowded than p99? P99 is way more crowded than any EQ i ever experienced.

[sacman08]

What live server did you play on that was more crowded than p99? P99 is way more crowded than any EQ i ever experienced.

Rodcet Nife. I remember many times having to wait in a queue to log in and if I got disconnected it was 15 minutes before I could get back in. There was easily 1400+ on the server on any given Saturday-holiday's were more.
As for it being busy on P99, I suppose if I had a higher level character and could go to Velious I would see a lot more people but I don't really feel like solo grindng out ANOTHER EQ character especially when that's one of the biggest reasons I quit EQ live.

[fash]

What live server did you play on that was more crowded than p99? P99 is way more crowded than any EQ i ever experienced.

Most of the high pop servers (e.g. veeshan) were around 2k at their peaks during the classic-velious eras.