Is leapfrogging a group to a camp allowed?

[mev]

Recently, my group was clearing the way to efreeti in SolB. We were pulling to the lilly pads and had cleared halfway to it. A group runs through our camp after we indicated that we were camping efreeti and clearing to it, and then they beat us to it.

I thought that
1) Efreeti was one camp, so they wouldn't have a claim on it if we we already at it, even if we were pulling to lilly pads rather than efreeti room.
2) Even if the only efreeti camp was in the room, leapfrogging over another group that was clearing to a camp was frowned on because otherwise there would be a strong incentive to wait around for a different group to start clearing something before you charge in at the last moment.

Is that not right?

The group was very gracious (when we tried to beat them at leapfrogging and failed, they rezzed us), but the experience as a whole still felt pretty bad, and they stayed there for hours.

[Tasslehofp99]

You can't claim a camp if its a full spawn and the PH is up. That is probably why they breezed by you. This is deffinetly an asshole move to do to people but it will happen until you're in the actual camp area and have cleared the PH's.

Usually, when people are calling a camp and clearing to it, people will leave them to it. It sounds to me like you got that 1 out of 10 people who just has to be a dickhead though.

[mev]

Cool, good to know. Thanks for the information!

[Caroc]

name and shame these horrible people

[Nixtar]

name and shame these horrible people

+1. I want to who not to help with anything.

[Baler]

I have spent an extreme amount of time in Sol B in my years play P99. Days of real life time at efreeti camp during low pop, high pop, exp weekends, etc.

You need to be able to push into efreeti camp and hold it. I've done it solo, duo and in a full party. Not once has anyone ever tried to take it from me/us.
If you're pulling them across the lilly pads at all you're technically not in efreeti camp. If you can keep all the mobs down in efreeti camp then you are technically camping it.

http://i.imgur.com/wmPUbgm.png

If you're keeping a majority of the mobs down very shortly after they pop, you're inside efreeti camp and some team of knobs comes along and tries to contest you for the camp. Then you have a petition on your hands. Petition in game. Take screenshots or record video. Make sure your log file is on. If there is no response in game. Petition on the forums with all your proof. Never post about a petition or incident outside the petition forums.

It's rare that you'd have to make a petition at efreeti camp unless you're not camping it properly. Nothing worse then a half ass cleared camp.
Can duo it with monk+shm, eyes closed auto running around the lava pit. While keeping all spawns down.

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

This would never happen on red.

[Rygar]

If you're keeping a majority of the mobs down very shortly after they pop, you're inside efreeti camp and some team of knobs comes along and tries to contest you for the camp. Then you have a petition on your hands. Petition in game. Take screenshots or record video. Make sure your log file is on. If there is no response in game. Petition on the forums with all your proof. Never post about a petition or incident outside the petition forums.

It's rare that you'd have to make a petition at efreeti camp unless you're not camping it properly. Nothing worse then a half ass cleared camp.


I feel bad for the guides and/or GM/devs that have to deal with petitions like this. End the petitionQuest on this stuff, not like someone ninjalooted and logged out ripped you off on a transfer. Let them tackle the big fish. Name and shame on boards should be enough.

[maskedmelon]

Sucks that you lost, but until you are at the camp and clearing it, it's not yours :/ I've had groups do this to me and my groups while we were on our way to a camp before and wasn't happy, but rules are rules and the solution is simple: be better/faster next time ^^ The best is when your group wipes and you get back to find another group waiting for your repops while you are still trying to get your cleric rezzed -.-* Same solution here though too ^^

[manguard]

Were any tells sent at all? Or was this all done passive aggressively in OOC?
Don't have any expectations that everyone in the zone knows what you're doing simply because you said it in OOC at some point. Sometimes people miss camp checks, but yes sometimes people are rude as hell and just move in, too. They leapfrogged you because it's within the rules to do that since you didn't hold that camp. How they went about it, is what I'm more concerned about.

[JRW928]

This would never happen on red.

That's because there's not enough people on Red to form a full group.

[maskedmelon]

Don't have any expectations that everyone in the zone knows what you're doing simply because you said it in OOC at some point.

This is actually a really good point. I discriminate fairly heavily against ooc, leaving it in my garbage window where it's pale green appearance is easily lost to bolder and more important text like /who, /loc and most attractive of all, experience messages. OOC kinda forms a backdrop for the rest of the text in that window. Anyone else segregate ooc from their guild/group/tell chat?

[joppykid]

I feel bad for the guides and/or GM/devs that have to deal with petitions like this. End the petitionQuest on this stuff, not like someone ninjalooted and logged out ripped you off on a transfer. Let them tackle the big fish. Name and shame on boards should be enough.

Interesting that you think only issues pertaining to loot are important. I think this is absolutely worth a petition. If the GM's deem it not important then they can choose not to intervene.

[EQBallzz]

Interesting that you think only issues pertaining to loot are important. I think this is absolutely worth a petition. If the GM's deem it not important then they can choose not to intervene.

I don't know if this is worth a petition or not but I find it interesting that people call this fair game for a group to leap frog a group that has claimed an open camp and is actively clearing to said camp. It doesn't seem as simple as "clear faster" because the only reason the leap frogging group can "clear faster" is because the way has been cleared by the first group.

Even with that in mind it still might just be a matter of tough shit..people are assholes.

[mr_jon3s]

This would never happen on red.

For it to happen on red people would have to actually be playing on the server.

[Thulack]

This is actually a really good point. I discriminate fairly heavily against ooc, leaving it in my garbage window where it's pale green appearance is easily lost to bolder and more important text like /who, /loc and most attractive of all, experience messages. OOC kinda forms a backdrop for the rest of the text in that window. Anyone else segregate ooc from their guild/group/tell chat?

I do. i have 3 chat windows. first one is for battle spam etc, 2nd is for group,say,tell,guild anything that someone could be talking directly to me in and 3rd is for auction, ooc, shout,others category

[Thulack]

I don't know if this is worth a petition or not but I find it interesting that people call this fair game for a group to leap frog a group that has claimed an open camp and is actively clearing to said camp. It doesn't seem as simple as "clear faster" because the only reason the leap frogging group can "clear faster" is because the way has been cleared by the first group.

Even with that in mind it still might just be a matter of tough shit..people are assholes.

In EQ its easy. You cant call something as camped if your not at the camp.

[Rygar]

Interesting that you think only issues pertaining to loot are important. I think this is absolutely worth a petition. If the GM's deem it not important then they can choose not to intervene.

They were just too examples that involved loot, if someone trained mobs on you intentionally to wipe you and take the camp then I'd consider that a petition. Leapfrogging to a camp is an asshole move, but feel the players can work it out.

Personally if someone else 'took' the camp because we cleared the 30 mobs blocking the camp so they could run in, I just wouldn't leave. They know what they did was wrong and would react the same way if the role was reversed, despite what LawyerQuesting would occur.

[Cecily]

If you're keeping a majority of the mobs down very shortly after they pop, you're inside efreeti camp and some team of knobs comes along and tries to contest you for the camp. Then you have a petition on your hands. Petition in game. Take screenshots or record video. Make sure your log file is on. If there is no response in game. Petition on the forums with all your proof. Never post about a petition or incident outside the petition forums.

It's rare that you'd have to make a petition at efreeti camp unless you're not camping it properly. Nothing worse then a half ass cleared camp.
Can duo it with monk+shm, eyes closed auto running around the lava pit. While keeping all spawns down.

You seem to think that keeping all the spawns down makes any difference at all. There's only one mob that matters in that camp.

[Baler]

You seem to think that keeping all the spawns down makes any difference at all. There's only one mob that matters in that camp.
http://i.imgur.com/MMOROuH.gif

Fair enough :o ;)

[Destron]

This thread highlights a big negative for p99, the community. This sort of behavior that is clearly an asshole move is being defended by many.

[drktmplr12]

assholes defending assholes. nothing new here.

[Baler]

assholes defending assholes. nothing new here.

Heck I've got three of them. At some point we're all going to have to touch them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp_HTrbDSTw

I liked it. I would do it again.

[Freakish]

You seem to think that keeping all the spawns down makes any difference at all. There's only one mob that matters in that camp.

Efreeti is half of the reason people do that camp. It's also close to the best exp you can find in game and I would take an efreeti that had named claimed over 80% of any kunark exp spots.

[Ravager]

Whatever you do, don't try for Tranix. There's a crybaby shaman that's been farming it around the clock for 5 years and will straight up KS you unless you're standing on the spawn point 24 hours a day to get FTE.

[Destron]

Whatever you do, don't try for Tranix. There's a crybaby shaman that's been farming it around the clock for 5 years and will straight up KS you unless you're standing on the spawn point 24 hours a day to get FTE.

If that type of behavior doesn't smell of RMT I don't know what does.

[Baler]

I know exactly who Ravager is talking about. That player's name echos through the halls of Sol B. Some real 'classy' ooc. lol
There is a running joke among veteran sol B players when ever anyone ooc's about tranix. They say this shaman is probably camping it and that he'll throw a fit if anyone takes it from him.

[Destron]

woah woah there big boy,

unless you have proof and than go their the proper channels, you shouldnt be saying things like this.

Lawyerquest is real and you might get sued for 100k pp

Don't let the Court of Llandris decide your fate

http://i.imgur.com/36HTEnu.gif

[applesauce25r624]

we need Juntsie !

[RDawg816]

I know exactly who Ravager is talking about. That player's name echos through the halls of Sol B. Some real 'classy' ooc. lol
There is a running joke among veteran sol B players when ever anyone ooc's about tranix. They say this shaman is probably camping it and that he'll throw a fit if anyone takes it from him.
Sounds like I need to go camp Tranix sometime...

[mev]

name and shame these horrible people

I don't want to shame anyone. What's done is done. It seems like the community standards on this point indicate that what they did was okay, if rude. That might indicate a problem with the community standards, but I wouldn't hold it against the group for doing something that the community says is okay.

You need to be able to push into efreeti camp and hold it.

...

If you're pulling them across the lilly pads at all you're technically not in efreeti camp. If you can keep all the mobs down in efreeti camp then you are technically camping it.


We weren't pulling across the lilly pads; we were pulling to the lilly pads (the lower right corner of your green box). We had cleared everything up to your upper right blue dot and were about to move there to start clearing the room when the other group came.

We were clearing them quickly enough to just hold the camp, but about half of the mobs were still up because we just got there a few minutes ago.

Were any tells sent at all? Or was this all done passive aggressively in OOC?

We saw them running past us. We let them know that it was camped in OOC (at this point, I believe our two groups were the only ones in the zone, so it shouldn't have been construed as passive aggressive). They said that starting to clear a camp didn't count as holding it and that they were going to run past us and kill efreeti.

It doesn't seem as simple as "clear faster" because the only reason the leap frogging group can "clear faster" is because the way has been cleared by the first group.
That's more or less the root of my question. When doing King in Sebilis, for instance, clearing the jail and the portal room are more difficult than actually pulling the king, so it would seem very weird if it were considered legitimate for one group to clear those two and for another group to pull the king while they were finishing off the portal room.

That said, this group would have still been able to clear faster than us even if we hadn't cleared half the camp -- we were a duo, and they were a full, balanced group from a top raid guild with what appeared to be much better gear than us.

[RDawg816]

... they were a full, balanced group from a top raid guild with what appeared to be much better gear than us.
That explains a lot. Typically, members of top raid guilds act like this almost exclusively. There is no middle ground with them. They go out of their way to be jerks and don't care how many people they upset along the way. They have that raid/race/rule-lawyer mentality 24/7.

[maskedmelon]

People need to stop identifying as victims and viewing everyone as assholes ^^ Learn the rules, play within them and congratulate the winner when you lose. There are lots of things to do in Norrath and having more time to waste does not entitle you to something anymore than someone else ^^ Be a good sport and have fun!

[manguard]

They said that starting to clear a camp didn't count as holding it and that they were going to run past us and kill efreeti.

There you have it. They were rushing into camp because they could. If you really wanted the camp you could've continued to negotiate, or just do what you did and let the bergs berg.

[azeth]

classic

[Ragain]

People need to stop identifying as victims and viewing everyone as assholes ^^ Learn the rules, play within them and congratulate the winner when you lose. There are lots of things to do in Norrath and having more time to waste does not entitle you to something anymore than someone else ^^ Be a good sport and have fun!

You don't have to technically follow the queue to order food at McDonalds, or follow any other queue, but it may work a few times, but eventually someone is going to speak up with your very rude behavior.

[Boyblunder]

This leapfrogging makes no rational sense to me. With this policy a group could wait until the first group clears to the right up to the "camp" and then takes the camp.

[Thulack]

This leapfrogging makes no rational sense to me. With this policy a group could wait until the first group clears to the right up to the "camp" and then takes the camp.

And how would you feel if you went to camp something got to zone in called CC and a group goes "clearing to so and so". 30 mins later they still arent at the camp and you are sitting there wondering wtf is wrong with them.

[Boyblunder]

I wouldn't feel anything, I would ask them, like a mature person, what the issue was. If they were not powerful enough, and were claiming something out of their reach I would explain this, and head to the camp. If it was within their reach but taking them longer due to group size/make/gear then it is their camp. It's the golden rule, the one not everyone learned in kindergarten.

[Thulack]

I wouldn't feel anything, I would ask them, like a mature person, what the issue was. If they were not powerful enough, and were claiming something out of their reach I would explain this, and head to the camp. If it was within their reach but taking them longer due to group size/make/gear then it is their camp. It's the golden rule, the one not everyone learned in kindergarten.

Grats on being a good person but thats not how this server works.

[nyclin]

Grats on being a good person but thats not how this server works.

a+ would quote again

[maskedmelon]

You don't have to technically follow the queue to order food at McDonalds, or follow any other queue, but it may work a few times, but eventually someone is going to speak up with your very rude behavior.

Good point, this is analogy is highly applicable. We ought to apply it to soccer as well and make sure teams take turns with the ball.

[Ragain]

Good point, this is analogy is highly applicable. We ought to apply it to soccer as well and make sure teams take turns with the ball.

Good strawman bro.

[Teppler]

I get leapfrogged all the time when I'm a shaman soloing towards crypt in sebilis.

Yet when I do it to groups I'm the worlds most disruptive eq player ever.

There seems to be a double standard when it comes to this issue.

[azeth]

I get leapfrogged all the time when I'm a shaman soloing towards crypt in sebilis.

Yet when I do it to groups I'm the worlds most disruptive eq player ever.

There seems to be a double standard when it comes to this issue.

pretty obvious dichotomy between a group clearing past you while you root/rot mobs at a 5 min/kill rate - and you speed running through a group into crypt after they've cleared all the shit

[Teppler]

pretty obvious dichotomy between a group clearing past you while you root/rot mobs at a 5 min/kill rate - and you speed running through a group into crypt after they've cleared all the shit

I get leap frogged in all sorts of shameful situations. Like when I've spent 15-20 minutes and I'm 5 minutes away from my spot.

Honestly, a lot of people just don't want to respect a solo guy.

[maskedmelon]

I get leap frogged in all sorts of shameful situations. Like when I've spent 15-20 minutes and I'm 5 minutes away from my spot.

Honestly, a lot of people just don't want to respect a solo guy.

Well, apparently that same disrespect is extended to marginally more efficient duos too as demonstrated by OP.

#nerfshamanamdmonks

[mev]

Well, apparently that same disrespect is extended to marginally more efficient duos too as demonstrated by OP.

#nerfshamanamdmonks

In my case, it was actually a monk / druid duo -- the stun and DPS on a charmed sonic bat almost makes up for the lack of buffs and slows on a shaman.

So, really, just #nerfmonks ;)

[maskedmelon]

In my case, it was actually a monk / druid duo -- the stun and DPS on a charmed sonic bat almost makes up for the lack of buffs and slows on a shaman.

So, really, just #nerfmonks ;)

Oh? Yeah, I would feel bad if Druids got nerfed ^^

[Ocelo]

Holy shit. People are still fighting over Efreeti?

Mind blown.

Many people play here on a casual level that most raiding poopsockers have no understanding of at all.