Camp; questions about rules

[redbandit]

Me and a guildmate of mine were camping some mobs, people came and asked if they were camped, and we said yes. They escalated it into a flaming match in ooc when we said we didnt want to share, as we were easily keeping all of them down without problems. Is it against the rules, or would we be punished for not sharing in the future, if we ignored the flaming match and kept to our mobs?

[yaaaflow]

Need more specifics on this situation imo. Dudes used to get mad when I would be in CT camping every named mob at once even though I was keeping them all down easily. If your camp is confined to a single room or small area they were probably out of line, if you were trying to camp a much larger area then there's a problem obviously.

[Timzilla]

Pretty much if you have to move to it, you don't have it camped.

[redbandit]

It was the spectres in feerrott, the small cave system, not spread out over the zone or anything

[Cars]

This rule is so situational it hurts to answer specific questions without screenshots but... if you are in an indoor zone like a dungeon your camps will usually consist of a single room but allowing you to pull openly from other uncamped rooms until someone claims. If someone is claiming multiple camps and there is nothing else open for you to take just ask them what camp they would prefer (doing this nicely is the best way to avoid ooc dick measuring contests) and most people will usually be pretty friendly about it.

For outdoor zones its hard to define a camp as alot of "camps" have a large area that the mobs roam or spawn in. An example of an outdoor camp is spectres in oasis. The entire island is concidered one camp but if you cant break the camp and consistently kill all the spectres then the ones that you can not are open for grabs. Spectres is one of the easier camps however and when you start getting into OOT or Ancient cyclops camps the line starts to blur a bit. use your discretion and try not to be a douchebag by not trying to bite off more then you can actually chew and you will most likely avoid the OOC battles.

[redbandit]

We could definatly chew them all, and spit them out to chew again before repops, i wasnt sure exactly in this case because if two separate people can camp all 7, why couldnt 2 people together. And i was told i would get suspended for not giving away my mobs, i just want to know for next time so i know to keep killing or find a new place

[Cars]

If you already had the spawns on a rotation and were pulling them as they popped then whoever said that to you can eat shit and die. You had the camp and whatever threats they said to you were just that, threats. Nothing bad would have come of it for you. Hopefully whoever said that wasnt so retarded as to petition and waste a GM's time when they are as busy as they are these days with real issues.

[redbandit]

Hahah it was my guild leader, peace pipe ^.^

[Harrison]

Need more specifics on this situation imo. Dudes used to get mad when I would be in CT camping every named mob at once even though I was keeping them all down easily. If your camp is confined to a single room or small area they were probably out of line, if you were trying to camp a much larger area then there's a problem obviously.

Lawl, coming from the guy who tried to steal camps on the regular.

[Cars]

Hold on, your guild leader was flaming you? or it was you and your guild leader who were camping it?

[redbandit]

no no, he said we would get suspended, but other people were the ones camp stealing etc

[Hobby]

Its simple...you cant camp outdoor mobs unless you sit on the spawn point. People respect camps like dervs and orcs and the 4 spawn spectres in oot / oasis, but 8 feerrott spectres? Dont expect to keep all 8 or 9 of them dead and not have to share...if someone comes in behind you and sets up shop on top of a mob, dont complain.

Camping such highly contested mobs and expecting not to share is going to wind up with you ksing and you getting the boot. I am sure the guy wasnt asking to split it 4/4, asking for 1 or 2 mobs shouldnt be a problem.

[redbandit]

ok thats all i wanted to know, since it was incredibly easy to keep 7 down, ty

[Bubbles]

Also: there's a special place in hell for people who wander into an empty room, completely devoid of all spawns within a 5 mile radius, and try and claim the camp.

I mean seriously.. Not only is the entire area dead, you wandered there without invis.. $#!t got blown the hell up, not just whittled down.. If you have half a brain you'd pause for at *least* a second before coming to the brilliant idea that ...................

waltzing halfway through guk without even having invis on and sitting down in a room is a claim to *anything* besides the fact that you've never known the touch of a woman, and are eagerly honing your skills to achieve end game EQ: lacing up your boots and following some other guild's planar break... is silly.

[redbandit]

I agree, even if its an outdoor zone

[Stibe]

Also: there's a special place in hell for people who wander into an empty room, completely devoid of all spawns within a 5 mile radius, and try and claim the camp.

I mean seriously.. Not only is the entire area dead, you wandered there without invis.. $#!t got blown the hell up, not just whittled down.. If you have half a brain you'd pause for at *least* a second before coming to the brilliant idea that ...................

waltzing halfway through guk without even having invis on and sitting down in a room is a claim to *anything* besides the fact that you've never known the touch of a woman, and are eagerly honing your skills to achieve end game EQ: lacing up your boots and following some other guild's planar break... is silly.

If you're not there, its up for grabs.

From "Camps defined" in the Library
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653&page=7

Camping a mob is a privelege, not a right. If someone wants the privelege of having sole claim to a mob, they have to make the sacrifice of whatever else they could be doing with themselves. Claim to a camp is a considerable advantage, it comes with a cost. Choose wisely.

[Harrison]

If you're not there, its up for grabs.

From "Camps defined" in the Library
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653&page=7

No one gives a flying fuck. If you use the rules' gray area to steal a camp, you fucking blow.

[senna]

No one gives a flying fuck. If you use the rules' gray area to steal a camp, you fucking blow.

Deep breath girl. Center yourself. Find a quiet place, lay on the floor with legs and hips bent at 90 degrees supported with a chair, a roll under your neck for support, put arms out in a cross- like position on the floor, close your eyes... and focus on breathing diaphragmatically. Let your body settled and relax.

[Stibe]

No one gives a flying fuck. If you use the rules' gray area to steal a camp, you fucking blow.

Dont wander away from your camp and no need to worry bro!

[Bubbles]

If you're not there, its up for grabs.

From "Camps defined" in the Library
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653&page=7

And if you walk into a convenience store, and no one's at the counter, it's officially "make your own change night" at the Circle K.

The rules are defined to make sure the guides don't get bugged every five seconds to figure out who was first on Trainer Hill in crushbone.

The idiots who use loose regulations to prance around and be annoyances, that's what I can't stand. Common decency.. It's a lost art.

[Badmartigan]

When I had all 7 specs as a necro and people asked me if I was camping them I would gladly give up 2-3..people that roll i'n and try to Ks me and act like jerks I would have issues with.

Be nice and try and work something out.. Or ask to be notified when they leave.. Try an make a friend instead of an enemy.. Simple

[Zigfreed]

Use or borrow common sense is what I usually think about this sort of stuff. And a dash of do unto others.
Hope the You can camp as much as you can kill folks remember their stance (and are in the zone) when Kunark comes out and I'm PBAE grouping 1/2-2/3 of seb per pull. :P

[yaaaflow]

Lawl, coming from the guy who tried to steal camps on the regular.
lol oh finawin always crying when people randomly attack him, but happy to make up bullshit about others

[Bubbles]

When I had all 7 specs as a necro and people asked me if I was camping them I would gladly give up 2-3..people that roll i'n and try to Ks me and act like jerks I would have issues with.

^^^

A million times this. Heck even when i'm levelling lowerguk PLing a guildie i'll gladly give up half of the undead tower camps, or if I'm on live side, I'll cough up EE or crusader or whatever.

Just ask and be civil. Nothing dumber than some level 40 shaman squatting down in an empty Sage room claiming he's suddenly gonna camp it.

[karsten]

its a sad situation when people are having to scrap over single spec spawns.

[Uaellaen]

get off my specs karsten you bitch!

[Hobby]

You guys keep adding things to what happened...its not like this guy waltz in and just sat on a spawn point.

[Throb]

Reminds me of this dumb bitch that basically jacked my priest of najena spawn because I wasn't SITTING IN THE ROOM. I politely informed her I was camping it and that's why the ph was dead, but she said because I wasn't sitting in that little pantry sized room waiting eagerly for a 55 min respawn that it was now her camp. Started being condescending and directed me to go read the camp rules, specifically line 2 of blah blah blah paragraph as if it was some sort of judiciary doctrine. I told her I'm aware of the rules and that technically I was maintaining a presence in the area and keeping the spawn dead. I was going to be a douchebag just like her, but decided to just leave instead.

I hate petty fucks like this.

[Spoonman]

^^^

A million times this. Heck even when i'm levelling lowerguk PLing a guildie i'll gladly give up half of the undead tower camps, or if I'm on live side, I'll cough up EE or crusader or whatever.

Just ask and be civil. Nothing dumber than some level 40 shaman squatting down in an empty Sage room claiming he's suddenly gonna camp it.

I haven't even been in guk long and have seen this happen way too often. A group forms up sets up shop somewhere and begins to exp, then begin to randomly lose their mobs to some 50 who has shows up to an empty room and isn't bright enough to bother asking for a camp check (or more likely knows its camped and has simply decided its time to be an asshole). This seriously discourages grouping as why bother going through the hassle of setting up a full group when I can just solo a few mobs in a corner somewhere net similar XP gains and not have to worry about some lvl 50 showing up and ruining my xp because he wants a new hat, I'd prefer to group as it's more fun (and its why I play the game)...but the arguing with solo'ers makes me want to just log off, some people's sense of entitlement is appalling. Don't even get me started on the assholes that move in on people's camps after they've been trained and are in the midst of retrieving corpses and moving back down to break the spawn.

I've heard the "omg you can't camp 3 spawns" argument and it's beyond retarded. No one would question 6 people holding down 6 different rooms, but a group of 6 gets crucified for simply killing the crap in their immediate area for exp. Then people turn around and get shocked these groups don't want to give up their mobs....really this is difficult to understand?

I know what the rules are regarding camping on the server, I've read the post. I think Bubbles may have said it best, there's a special place in hell for people who go around conducting themselves like this.

[Alkorin]

Huh? That's ridiculous, Spoonman. You can't camp three separate (i.e. not immediate area) spawns if they're three separate spawns, and that is covered very clearly in the rules.

1. Going forward, if you intend to hold or claim a camp, your group must retain presence at that camp. If you have no competition in the zone, you are more than welcome to hold as many as you like. The moment another party wants to claim a camp and you are "farming" multiple, you must decide which camp you want and forfeit the ones someone else is interested in. We still expect players to use the courtesy camp check before zerging a room. If there is a full spawn of mobs in a camp room up I think that would be considered not camped. How you pull the camp is up to you, as long as you are able to engage the mobs very shortly after they are spawned.

Honestly, people who make a big deal about this shit are part of the problem and are generally the reason that camp drama exists. If you're holding exe/sage/cav/sav (which is common practice), and someone shows up to claim one of them that you aren't sitting at, why on earth would that be unfair?

That being said, if someone asks for a CC and sits down to camp one of your previously-cleared camps anyway, without talking to you about it, they're still in the wrong. Has nothing to do with the rules... it's just plain uncivilized.

[freakyuno]

Huh? That's ridiculous, Spoonman. You can't camp three separate (i.e. not immediate area) spawns if they're three separate spawns, and that is covered very clearly in the rules.


I think whats in question would be "immediate area".

Technically, each and every spawn is an individual spawn. Meaning, that even in a single room, someone could "claim" they are camping a single spawn spot, and be required to give other spawn spots in the same room to others. The point others in this thread are trying to make, is common sense, and decency. Obviously a "room" is a "room" and campable, with 1 spawn, or 20 in it.

In the case of the specs, what constitues immediate area? Each tiny little cave spot? The entire cave "system"? In OOT what counts? A cardinal side of the island, the whole island?

Just be decent to each other, on both sides of the equation.

[Chanus]

But if I can't fight about it and come here crying like a loser, how do I justify my otherwise meaningless existence?!

[Spoonman]

Huh? That's ridiculous, Spoonman. You can't camp three separate (i.e. not immediate area) spawns if they're three separate spawns, and that is covered very clearly in the rules.



Honestly, people who make a big deal about this shit are part of the problem and are generally the reason that camp drama exists. If you're holding exe/sage/cav/sav (which is common practice), and someone shows up to claim one of them that you aren't sitting at, why on earth would that be unfair?

That being said, if someone asks for a CC and sits down to camp one of your previously-cleared camps anyway, without talking to you about it, they're still in the wrong. Has nothing to do with the rules... it's just plain uncivilized.

What's ridiculous about it, given the situation you've provided you have 1 group of 6 people holding down 3-4 rooms. That's what...maybe 16 spawns every 28mins or w/e guk's exact timer is, it's probably not even that many. Furthermore those spawns are pretty much all in the immediate area...you're talking about what, a 5 second run to get to any of them?

16 mobs for 6 people is less than 3 mobs a person, 1 person moving into a room all on their own and taking said room is more than 3 mobs a person. Yet the group of people are the ones being ridiculous? Nothing at all selfish/ridiculous about a single individual deciding their needs out weight that of 6 other people? After a lvl 50 moves in and takes cav, sage and sav...those 6 people are left to kill 5 mobs. Having 3 rooms taken by 1 person a pop so that a group of 6 can hang out with nothing to do shouldn't be the experience this game strives for.

Keep hiding behind the rules if you want, but the above mindset seems awfully self-involved to me.

[Cars]

I find the lower guk example the most frustrating and most common group of camps to cause drama. Each one of those rooms is in itself its own camp, "tower" is not a camp. But I am also not going to run through on my level 50 and claim a single one of those rooms if there is an exp group grinding out uncontested. But if I am level 35 and have a full group of my own and the other group doesnt think its going to be sharing camps thats a different story especially if every other camp in the zone is spoken for. Obviously a little common sense goes a long way in camp situations but P99 doesn't have the comraderie amongst players that Live had and it shows most on the raiding and item camping scene as no one wants to share ever. The mentality of most players seems like they dont give a fuck about players that our going through the exact same thing they are, they just want to xp or get loot at maximum efficiency and if someone is going to get in the way of that (even if there goal is the same) then they can fuck themselves. Comraderie doesn't exist amongst players so there will always be issues with camps and the rules regarding them.

[redbandit]

This got way off topic, my thing was, in any normal case, 2 people separate can camp every spec np and nobody whines about it, but if two people do it in a grp its a foul, and camping the exact same number of the same mobs in a different zone by yourself, is completely ok. That is silly. But for some reason its the rules so this post answered my question, and alot of guk questions!

[mognet]

This got way off topic, my thing was, in any normal case, 2 people separate can camp every spec np and nobody whines about it, but if two people do it in a grp its a foul, and camping the exact same number of the same mobs in a different zone by yourself, is completely ok. That is silly. But for some reason its the rules so this post answered my question, and alot of guk questions!

I think Spoonman spoke to your point, he just used Guk as a reference and got people sidetracked.

In my experience, the issue arises when there is no attempt to speak with the other players prior to just making a move, which of course is regarded as a dick move. I have no problem discussing with someone why I feel I shouldn't need to give up certain mobs to them provided I have a valid reason, but I also understand when someone else tells me there's no room/mobs for me.

Overall, the player base on this server is pretty damn good in my opinion. We just need to work on some decency with some folks.

[Alkorin]

I didn't say that was my opinion, Spoonman. That's just the way it is. I would never personally take a camp from an xp group in that manner and I don't think it's right to do so.

That being said, lguk is bad for this. Every little area with 3-4 mobs is its own camp, and this is not condusive to good xp if people want to camp the nameds. Take something like sol b. If a Royals group wants to pull Noble, and someone walks in and wants to camp Noble themselves, is that reasonable in your world? There is plenty of stuff to pull from elsewhere for the average Royals group.

[Spoonman]

This got way off topic, my thing was, in any normal case, 2 people separate can camp every spec np and nobody whines about it, but if two people do it in a grp its a foul, and camping the exact same number of the same mobs in a different zone by yourself, is completely ok. That is silly. But for some reason its the rules so this post answered my question, and alot of guk questions!

The area and scale is different but if you break this situation down in the same manner you have they're pretty similar.

You have 8 or 9 (going by info in thread I'm not familiar with this camp) spawns usually held down by 2 individuals, instead being held down by a group of 2, logic and reasoning states this should be fine. But because you are grouped people act like you're retarded....despite the fact that this is no different than 2 necro's soloing half the camp each.

With Guk (this example anyway) you have 4 camps total...3 really as you rarely get all 4 someone's typically sitting on savant / sage...anyway. 3-4 rooms. Not one person would bat an eye if 4 individual people were camping each of the rooms... but when 6 people in a group attempt to do it to get exp....well that's just stupid despite the fact that you got to the camp at full spawn, broke the spawn up and have been pulling these mobs for hours potentially, anyone SHOULD be able to just waltz in and say they want whichever room you're not physically sitting in.

The end result is the group gets boned out of their exp and the individual gets exactly what they came for, if you arrive to a spawn that's cleared. You should have the decency to see who's camping it, and if it's a group grinding out exp...the decency to leave them alone. Yeah if one 50 is clearing 4 camps you're well within your rights to snag one, people bullying exp groups out of their mobs need to give your heads a shake.

[Cars]

The end result is the group gets boned out of their exp and the individual gets exactly what they came for, if you arrive to a spawn that's cleared. You should have the decency to see who's camping it, and if it's a group grinding out exp...the decency to leave them alone. Yeah if one 50 is clearing 4 camps you're well within your rights to snag one, people bullying exp groups out of their mobs need to give your heads a shake.

/agree

Nuff said

[redbandit]

The area and scale is different but if you break this situation down in the same manner you have they're pretty similar.

You have 8 or 9 (going by info in thread I'm not familiar with this camp) spawns usually held down by 2 individuals, instead being held down by a group of 2, logic and reasoning states this should be fine. But because you are grouped people act like you're retarded....despite the fact that this is no different than 2 necro's soloing half the camp each. no he was completely incorrect, there is only 7 mobs, if there was any more than 7, we would have given some up np, we had the perfect amount of mobs on a perfect timer. The area isnt that different, slap a wall between each spec at oasis and its about the same. it just seems much larger because of the cave system, but theyre really similar, even in oasis the ones in the tower are considered part of the same camp, unless you cant keep them all killed, but that doesnt play into this situation.

[Lelroni]

This got way off topic, my thing was, in any normal case, 2 people separate can camp every spec np and nobody whines about it, but if two people do it in a grp its a foul, and camping the exact same number of the same mobs in a different zone by yourself, is completely ok. That is silly. But for some reason its the rules so this post answered my question, and alot of guk questions!

You could be a 'dick' and tell the person that the other guy in your group is camping 1/2 the specs and you the other half. I did that when I was duo'ing with a necro in lguk on the Lord/AM. (he had lord and I had AM)

:cool:

Sad part is, after an enchanter came up and demanded one of the camps, we obliged and gave her the Lord camp. She promptly died trying to clear up to the Lord. (she even had a 30-40-ish gnome cleric grouped with her, and I bet she wasn't boxing it :rolleyes: )

[redbandit]

I already thought of that one hah

[mimixownzall]

And if you walk into a convenience store, and no one's at the counter, it's officially "make your own change night" at the Circle K.

The rules are defined to make sure the guides don't get bugged every five seconds to figure out who was first on Trainer Hill in crushbone.

The idiots who use loose regulations to prance around and be annoyances, that's what I can't stand. Common decency.. It's a lost art.


Loose? Nothing loose about what he was refering to.

You walk in to the ancient croc room. Mobs are dead, but no one is around. You take a look around but see no one. You do /say anyone here invis or hiding? No one replies. You set up shop and get ready for respawn. Somone shows up and says they were camping it. Too bad, by rules.

It is pretty cut and dry in this instance and the instance the poster was saying that you replied to.

[mimixownzall]

I think people just forget to think, "If I were in that person's shoes, what would I do or how would I feel in the same situation?"

[Harrison]

You walk in to the ancient croc room. Mobs are dead, but no one is around. You take a look around but see no one. You do /say anyone here invis or hiding? No one replies. You set up shop and get ready for respawn. Somone shows up and says they were camping it. Too bad, I'm a douchebag so I'm going to steal it instead of ask in shout if it's camped.

It is pretty cut and dry that I will use gray areas in rulesets to get my way. I don't care about other people. I am selfish.

I use a noobtube. I am terrible at FPS too.

Edited for additions:

[bizzum]

it's officially "make your own change night" at the Circle K.

Are there Circle K's in other places outside of Japan? =x

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

With the way the rules are set up groups are disincentivised. So a group of 6 is holding down 4 rooms that have named spawns a la lguk undead side. One 50 mage enters and camp checks, then says "you cant have 4 camps, im taking the frenzieds, b/c section 8 art. 2 blah blah blah." Ok, fine, now we have some down time, thats cool, just being friendly. Now another 49 Necro shows up, same thing, takes the supplier, now the 6 are down to 2 rooms, and there is no challange or fun being had. People get bored, leave, and once again, playing the game the way it was meant to be played is made impossible. Ever had that happen? Should the definition of "camp" be flexible if a case like this went to the GM's?

[Uthgaard]

This rule is so situational it hurts to answer specific questions without screenshots but... if you are in an indoor zone like a dungeon your camps will usually consist of a single room but allowing you to pull openly from other uncamped rooms until someone claims. If someone is claiming multiple camps and there is nothing else open for you to take just ask them what camp they would prefer (doing this nicely is the best way to avoid ooc dick measuring contests) and most people will usually be pretty friendly about it.

For outdoor zones its hard to define a camp as alot of "camps" have a large area that the mobs roam or spawn in. An example of an outdoor camp is spectres in oasis. The entire island is concidered one camp but if you cant break the camp and consistently kill all the spectres then the ones that you can not are open for grabs. Spectres is one of the easier camps however and when you start getting into OOT or Ancient cyclops camps the line starts to blur a bit. use your discretion and try not to be a douchebag by not trying to bite off more then you can actually chew and you will most likely avoid the OOC battles.

Cars had this covered on page 1.

If you're being a douchebag and trying to ride a gray area, and starting some shit that we have to come in and decide for you, chances are, you're going to be the one we're pissed off at. But here's the best part. If it's me, I'm going to make a decision that you're both going to hate. Don't like it? Mission accomplished, in the future you'll figure shit out on your own.

Every time two players decide that they cant put on their big boy/girl/tranny pants and start a dispute that they can't resolve on their own, it takes time away from other shit. Then other people whine about how long other shit takes.

[Stibe]

With the way the rules are set up groups are disincentivised. So a group of 6 is holding down 4 rooms that have named spawns a la lguk undead side. One 50 mage enters and camp checks, then says "you cant have 4 camps, im taking the frenzieds, b/c section 8 art. 2 blah blah blah." Ok, fine, now we have some down time, thats cool, just being friendly. Now another 49 Necro shows up, same thing, takes the supplier, now the 6 are down to 2 rooms, and there is no challange or fun being had. People get bored, leave, and once again, playing the game the way it was meant to be played is made impossible. Ever had that happen? Should the definition of "camp" be flexible if a case like this went to the GM's?

There are more than enough non-named spawns to pull.

[Randy]

There are more than enough non-named spawns to pull.

I think he's just trying to say the rules kind of suck for Groups. Because say your group is holding 3 named. Some 50 mage farmer dude comes along and has rights to a spawn cause you can't camp them all. 15 mins another solo farmer comes a long and takes the other. Now you're down to 1 named for 6 people, while the 2 farmers each get their own spawn. If that actually happened, it would suck. Personally, I think its a very unlikely scenario cause most people act reasonably but occasionally people do get rule crazy instead of just using common courtesy.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

@ uth - yeah yeah, i would run the show the same way. I'm saying that taken to their logical conclusion, the rules are favoring the rights of solo-ers (who are there for loot not xp) over groups. Something just feels more legit about the group's claim here, even if it precludes their physical presence in said camps.

There is of course a lot of gray, some camps are never really xp camps, some dungeons are more spread out, etc.. I just think that you cant treat individuals and groups the same way in these, admittedly, infantile conflicts.

[Stibe]

So a group of 6 lvl 49 mages should be allowed to hold down all the named camps in lguk then?

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Lol, interesting wording. Under the rules, a GROUP of them would not be allowed. But if they were 6 individuals not grouped, then they can sit on all the best loot of any given area. Legally, even though it's dickery. I just wanted to throw in my 2cp on the way a single farmer has equal claim as a group of 6 in the eyes of the rules. I have faith that our GMs are intelligent enough to recognize when the ver batim interpretation of the definition of "camp" etc. is being abused. (Sidenote : my guess is when Kunark opens and you see gear hungry 50lvls and xp hungry groups all jammed in the same zones fighting for the same spawns this discussion will be more relevant.)

[Madigan]

Wow, so much discussion over one simple rule...

If you are camping a static spawn, BE at the spawn. It doesn't matter if it's a group or single person, just BE at the spawn.

[Dyrkoon]

I agree if it's xp your after, then you can get it in an area that doesnt have loot...but when it's named loot droppers----> the soloer and the group have equal claim to "camp's",
Because at those camps "most of the time" it's all about the drops anyhow :rolleyes:

[nilbog]

In 1999-2001 if I was clearing 2-3 camps with an example magician, and more players arrived in the zone, I would choose my camp and let them have what they wanted to occupy.

If I would have tried to say.. "Hey guys, yeah I'm killing these 3 camps.", they would say "Hey man, good luck when it pops, but I'll be here in aggro range."

Seems common sense to me. Instances are a different game.

[redbandit]

Lol, interesting wording. Under the rules, a GROUP of them would not be allowed. But if they were 6 individuals not grouped, then they can sit on all the best loot of any given area. Nobody with any respect or decency would walk in on two people claiming the mobs, but if we group people start flaming and all of the sudden we are in the wrong. I dont enjoy petitioning or being petitioned, i wanna sit and gain experience and be undisturbed =P Please dont quote my last line out of context to say "oh yeah sure everyone wants to camp every guk named by themselves undisturbed" this is completely different. If i was just farming platinum with 7 specs, i would be more than happy to give them up for people who wanted xp, and this isnt me running across the zone to camp them all, i can walk 5 seconds and be at the next spectre, i suppose everyone been arguing if u have to walk its not yours, but this seems a little more reasonable than camping the guards at oggok and the lizards at CT zonein. Either way question answered, and most people politely ask for a tell when theres some specs open and im happy to oblige! anyone who likes the spectres try to remember that one about me ;)

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

if you two can kill all 7 before repops, they're all yours. If you can't, then that is when you can't claim them all.

[redbandit]

if you two can kill all 7 before repops, they're all yours. If you can't, then that is when you can't claim them all. well thats what i thought too

[Timzilla]

well thats what i thought too

Learn'n is good.

[Bubbles]

Edited for additions:

Harrison gets the idea.

You show up in a spot, no mobs are there, /shout if it's camped and wait for a response.

If someone is sitting at the camp invis'd, odds are they are afk, so don't expect an instant response. The only thing i'm really poking and prodding is the idea that if you follow a trail of dead mobs to a named spawn, it ain't up, and you haven't aggro'd anything in the last 2 minutes.... :

GUESS WHAT GENIUS SOMEONE MIGHT BE KILLING THAT AREA!

That's all i'm asking. Pause for a second and play the "logic" game.

Guktower:

Yeah, it's a mess.. Ideally on live this is what you would have:

1 full group pulling Lord/AM/Hand. Easily done. 1 full group pulling Frenzied/Sent/Jail.

1 full group pulling bottom tower from Exe to Jail.

1 full group pulling Savant Thru Ritualist.

1 full group pulling Minos/Elder/

1 full group pulling Live keep / EE

1 full group pulling king thru front end (Apprentice? White Gold Necklace mob)

1 full group camping bedroom spiders bats n frogs.

Couple toons hitting entry mobs.

Here's where it gets interesting:

There really aint a ton of grouping in guk, for the main reason of a lack of Bedroom group at most hours makes stacking invis a nightmare, and no one travels to guk looking for a PUG and leaves happy. None of the real camps are really reachable pre-49 without some help invis-stacking or sheer luck of catching all the bedroom/ZI/Icebone area dead and bloated.

Short version: not much grouping in guk unless you bring your own.

Relative power issue: I've done it as a cleric with a manastone. Lull is neat. Solo with maxed up hps for manastone efficiency I could (as a cleric) completely keep down Ritualist / Ass / Sup / Sav / Cav/ Sage / Exe solo with time for a smoke break waiting for repops.

As a necro I could easily slaughter all 7 of those names by simply summoning a pet, using undead lull in spots, and just mass slaughtering any frog in my path from Rit to Exe. Mages can do much the same thing, albeit they'll leave exe alone and have to sweat the 4-pull from Savant if they wanna get down into Sage area. Or buy IVU potions, but once again they'd be stuck either sticking to Rit/Ass/Sup or bottom tower.. or AM. etc.

Even a paladin can use lull and IVU to basically keep every named spawn in the tower down. Enchanters too obv.

Most of us are now used to Diablo/Wow type games where you prance around and plunder, not sit in one spot with your wristwatch set for 22-28 min intervals. The former is 10x more exciting than the latter.

And it sucks as a class who can down a good 25-30 mobs in a 28 min respawn window to sit his happy a$$ at the Sage or Ass/Sup spawn and basically waste their time, especially if you have a buddy with you that needs the XP. Does the fact that i can pulverize the whole tower from Rit to Jail give me the right to claim a zillion spawns? Of course not. But if have to make the dude XP leeching off me park in Sage it limits the square radius i can spam kill and still get him xp. And yeah, most times i'll just abandon all the nameds and just slaughter from bottom tower thru Frenzied & lord killing all the trash mobs in the name of xp. So meh.

Sol B is probably worse because a BnB group will handcuff the Royals group, especially if there's a window group, because the Window can definitely pull through noble and 9/10 BnB groups ain't going to come close to keeping down all the bats bugs n beetles. And if the BnB sits by the trap, it stops the royals from pulling down the bats in the first two rooms, when BnB could easily park further in and still keep Nox/Death Beetle/Stone Spider down.

Guards: There's a reason guards weren't buffed/nerfed till Kunark was well out: they were truly one of the few alternatives to make a smattering of coin and XP in Classic, once 1/3 of the server hit 50.. Much less a good 80%+ like we have on here.

Too many people care here. There isn't the laid-back casual player base there was 10 years ago. It's present here, but it's a small rippling baby wave in an Ocean of people still nurturing their 10-year old e-peen.

Why is Guk/SolB/MM/etc in it's present condition? Player greed. Pure and simple. Why are the planes the same way? Player greed. Why are the Dragon encounters handled the way they are? Player greed. Skill is completely out the window. Most people here know how to kill things. Gonna have to give up any semblance of a life to be truly 'uber'. We all understand this, it ain't a new concept.

But if Kunark's a good 3-6 months away, can we seriously look at a boost in donations and the feasibility of splitting this server in half? Everyone wins (except the gms/devs obv).. We'll need more hardware, more bandwith, and (most importantly) more GMs n Guides to handle both servers.. people trustable and trained to deal with our pathetic, whining, angry-at-the-world a$$es.

We already got a Beta site out that sits with 10ppl on it most times.. Why? Player greed, we already covered this. Plus the funky zones like Chardok and Seb and Skyfire and OT and Karnors and HS aren't available yet.. But if we have the ability to pop another server up like that, we might wanna look at seeing if a few of our guilds wanna start fresh.

Imagine TMO/DiV/PP/VD/LA heading up server 2 and IB/DA/Doze/Breg/Panth/DW heading up the other... Would that solve everything entirely? No, but by god it would at least be a step in the right direction.. There is *nothing* more classic than a server split and having options. It's a lot closer to the vision than instances and summoned bankers and cats on the moon and such.

Wowthatwasarealtangent.

Cheers. :)

[Stibe]

Cool novel.

[Kassel]

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter bubs!

[Harrison]

Sol B is probably worse because a BnB group will handcuff the Royals group, especially if there's a window group, because the Window can definitely pull through noble and 9/10 BnB groups ain't going to come close to keeping down all the bats bugs n beetles. And if the BnB sits by the trap, it stops the royals from pulling down the bats in the first two rooms, when BnB could easily park further in and still keep Nox/Death Beetle/Stone Spider down.

If I am pulling BNB for 4+ hours in royals, and a group decides they're going to plop down at the trap without saying anything. I will continue to pull as usual. I am not going to halve my experience to a (usually) shitty group who will just end up training me with their fail-pulls.

[gprater]

I had a similar situation about 2 months ago. I entered Grobb to kill the guards. A mage was killing near front I invised and went to back near the banker. 11 mobs in between those 2 spots plus one GM that i usually kill because its a little tough to move past him. I was going to kill the back 5 guards and the gm and confine myself to 2 small areas...When the mage made it to the back area where i was he said in /ooc that guards are camped. I replied which guards are you killing...he said all...I said you cant camp a whole zone. He got mad..blah blah....said that was how everyone else did it....i killed a few more and left....hate conflict.