How is "recharging" items not an exploit?

[renordw]

Not to be "that guy" but it seems like a hack, there's no reason the game should actually work that way.

[Brut]

Half the game's meta is prty much abusing unintended mechanics in some way.
Consider them moreso ascended glitches than exploits.

[renordw]

Half the game's meta is prty much abusing unintended mechanics in some way.
Consider them moreso ascended glitches than exploits.

I see, so do the devs officially support recharging items? If so, I can't even imagine what kind of exploit would be frowned upon.

[Doctor Jeff]

Clever use of game mechanics.

[Brut]

I see, so do the devs officially support recharging items? If so, I can't even imagine what kind of exploit would be frowned upon.
It's classic, so prty much.
Alot of patches fix stuff that can be considered exploits, like multiquesting. Or the /pet attack tracking. Or some of the completely broken pull tactics that worked for a duration.

Only time devs really frowned on recharges was when people were abusing hoops to instakill raid mobs in Kunark. Which resulted in uncool lifetap resist rate nerf and making hoops unrechargeable. Also can't recharge anything on PVP servers, which is good since the era of Nilly wizards spamming full conflag wands in 1v1 random pvp was kinda all sorts of retarded.

[Tecmos Deception]

Not to be "that guy" but it seems like a hack, there's no reason the game should actually work that way.

If all the things in EQ that were unintended by the devs were changed to fit the devs original intent, we'd probably all hate this game.

There's a pretty fine line between "exploit" and "emergent gameplay" anyways. Yeah it's goofy as fuck the way recharging works... but goofy stuff like that wasn't uncommon to see in games back in the day, and often times they just became accepted parts of the game even though they didn't really make any sense.

[renordw]

It's classic, so prty much.
Alot of patches fix stuff that can be considered exploits, like multiquesting. Or the /pet attack tracking. Or some of the completely broken pull tactics that worked for a duration.

Only time devs really frowned on recharges was when people were abusing hoops to instakill raid mobs in Kunark. Which resulted in uncool lifetap resist rate nerf and making hoops unrechargeable. Also can't recharge anything on PVP servers, which is good since the era of Nilly wizards spamming full conflag wands in 1v1 random pvp was kinda all sorts of retarded.

But isn't that classic?

[Tecmos Deception]

I can't even imagine what kind of exploit would be frowned upon.

Lol. It's not rocket science. If there's something that's widely known and widely used and the devs never change it or punish anyone for using it... that's the kind of "exploit" that they don't mind.

[Cecily]

If the devs wanted recharging gone, they would patch it out like they did on red.

[Nuggie]

Hey man. You seem kind of snarky. You either want to come and play on p99 and have fun with nilbog and rogean rules or you don't want to come have fun. There are other servers that operate in different ways. Or start your own if you think your vision will draw more people. Personally, I'm happy here.

[Thulack]

I see, so do the devs officially support recharging items? If so, I can't even imagine what kind of exploit would be frowned upon.

Its supported on Live so why not here? They have had 17 years to "fix" it on live servers and they never did.

[lurk]

Recharging was nerfed in Luclin mostly due to using rez staff to skip clearing VT. It's clearly an exploit but wasn't widely known about until Luclin.

[renordw]

Hey man. You seem kind of snarky. You either want to come and play on p99 and have fun with nilbog and rogean rules or you don't want to come have fun. There are other servers that operate in different ways. Or start your own if you think your vision will draw more people. Personally, I'm happy here.

Hi Nuggie, there's no need to attack me personally. It's a question. I think you know the "America, love it or leave it" attitude is kind of ridiculous, there's always room for discussion.

[Flashback]

do not pin mobs in the wall's or corners and do not clear the trash mobs before the big boss, just fight them all at the same time. Stop exploiting mechanics, you dirty cheaters, gawd :/

[myriverse]

Even GMs on Live condoned its use, so I don't think it fits being an exploit.

[Matalus]

It's been adjusted as seen fit on this server vs live. Example: Ivandry's Hoop

[Tankdan]

Even GMs on Live condoned its use, so I don't think it fits being an exploit.

Average platinum per account was also like 10k (10k was worth $200 in classic) on live so I don't know why we are even comparing the two.

[trite]

Not to be "that guy" but it seems like a hack, there's no reason the game should actually work that way.

Recharging is cool as fuck....It means that organized guilds have a system where any player that joins them becomes more powerful by gaining access to an array of potion effects including heal potions, slow potions, agroe etc....

It also means that raidings guilds have to be run like a business exploiting limited server resources, the guilds need to have a system for making platinum to fund their recharge sessions....

Some fights are impossible without heal potions...

Guilds have to budget which fights they choose to pick with what numbers too. You can't run yourself out of money by engaging in fights that cost you 100k to recharge your members for and only give you one sleepers tomb key (like sontolak)....or let your guild burn 50k on AoW when you probably won't get there with 50 people

[Bboboo]

To me half of what EQ is all about is being able to do stuff the devs didn't intend for you to do with use of 'cleaver game mechanics' Aside from it being a grind and difficult MMO what also sets it apart is the jankiness. To me it's part of the charm.

[Wilhelm]

So how do you recharge items?

[Danth]

I see, so do the devs officially support recharging items? If so, I can't even imagine what kind of exploit would be frowned upon.

As others have said, recharging is indeed supported here and could be removed any time if developers so wished, as it was on Red. It's regarded as a feature, not an exploit. Exploits that have resulted in disciplinary action include dupe bugs and pushing monsters into the geometry in such a manner that they couldn't attack the player(s). Some classic exploits, such as the Overthere-Skyfire zone line fear pathing glitch, were never reproduced on P1999. In the long run, the distinction between feature and exploit lies solely at the discretion of the server staff.

Watching the big guilds host their recharge sessions is quite amusing: It looks like nothing quite so much as a bread line.

Danth

[Lojik]

It actually took a good bit of work just to implement recharging, they won't take it out

[JackFlash]

Recharging was nerfed in Luclin mostly due to using rez staff to skip clearing VT. It's clearly an exploit but wasn't widely known about until Luclin.

Rez staff also used to fein drag a rez class to the PoM portal in ToV.....

[Signal]

No one is recharging a rez staff here. Too expensive.

[Pokesan]

because staff doesn't consider it an exploit

duh?

[Izmael]

It takes platinum out of the system which is a Good Thing.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

It takes platinum out of the system which is a Good Thing.

Imagine if the tens of thousands of plat were not spent every week by "top end" guilds. P99 platinum would have the same value as Sodor bucks.

[maskedmelon]

It is an important pp sink and is classic, but yes, there is no way to rationalize it as anything but an exploit.

[Lojik]

Honestly, I feel like eq devs leaving out [an intended] ability to recharge a lot of items was silly, and the "exploit" filled a void of a game feature that probably should have been more prevalent.

[fadetree]

Well, the point of this server is not to present a 'corrected' version of the game, but rather a 'correct' version of the game as it was in the day, which means explicitly reproducing stuff that people considered broken/exploits. It's not perfect and they do have a few variances but in general that's the idea.

[Loke]

Which items being recharged is a problem in your opinion? It isn't like recharge items are being used to such an extent that people wouldn't be able to accomplish the same thing without them. Since I cut back on raiding, the only items I regularly recharge are invis rings, gate cap, and wand of allure. Of those the gate cap is the only item I could see giving an unfair advantage, and even that is comparable to other bought / dropped gate pots. I mean, invis rings end up being like 8 plat per charge, which isn't expensive, but more than anyone has ever donated to me for an invis.

I cod understand if people were downing raid mobs with hoops and wands, but it just doesn't seem to be a problem. Recharging primarily seems to be used by players to make their lives slightly easier at the cost of some platinum, which seems pretty fair to me. Even mallets wouldn't be an issue without recharging - guilds would just buy more rubies and get more mallets.

Seems like a non issue to me.

[renordw]

Which items being recharged is a problem in your opinion? It isn't like recharge items are being used to such an extent that people wouldn't be able to accomplish the same thing without them. Since I cut back on raiding, the only items I regularly recharge are invis rings, gate cap, and wand of allure. Of those the gate cap is the only item I could see giving an unfair advantage, and even that is comparable to other bought / dropped gate pots. I mean, invis rings end up being like 8 plat per charge, which isn't expensive, but more than anyone has ever donated to me for an invis.

I cod understand if people were downing raid mobs with hoops and wands, but it just doesn't seem to be a problem. Recharging primarily seems to be used by players to make their lives slightly easier at the cost of some platinum, which seems pretty fair to me. Even mallets wouldn't be an issue without recharging - guilds would just buy more rubies and get more mallets.

Seems like a non issue to me.

I'm not sure if I have an issue with it, in that sense. It just seems like a really silly mechanic, that makes zero sense "lore-wise". I understand why and how it was implemented, but I just don't love doing it, it makes me feel like a cheater I guess.

Similar to multiquesting I guess, I just think it's silly. Why is the item even no-drop, when you can go to EC and sell the piece?

If I were emperor of P99, I would probably just implement it differently so it didn't feel so hacky, it seems to reduce the immersion -- but I guess it's kind of a non-issue at this point since the game is like 18 years old.

[Nuggie]

Using feign death to split mobs was also unintended by the original eq devs. Where does this nitpicking stop?

Enjoy the server for what it is. Free, on someone else's terms.

[renordw]

Using feign death to split mobs was also unintended by the original eq devs. Where does this nitpicking stop?

Enjoy the server for what it is. Free, on someone else's terms.

Dude, chill. Why are you trying to escalate everything into fucking drama?

[Glasken]

Dude, chill. Why are you trying to escalate everything into fucking drama?

His question is relevant though. Item recharging is one of those things, as has been stated already, that is a quark of the original game. It is has the devs blessing, along with the player base. It helps strip plat out of the economy. All good things. In lieu of a hard coded mechanic to recharge items, it works.

If lore is your issue, just imagine for yourself that all merchants are retired magic crafters with the power to imbue items with mana, or charges, or whatever.

Seems to me you are just trying to stir the pot more than anything.

[Erati]

if it makes you feel any better, recharging on this server used to be actually broken where ANY item with charges that you sold to a vendor became fully recharged without having to sell an actually fully recharged version of that same item first

basically sell an uncharged Cap to any vendor and when you buy it right back it was charged magically. THAT was broken.

[Lhancelot]

if it makes you feel any better, recharging on this server used to be actually broken where ANY item with charges that you sold to a vendor became fully recharged without having to sell an actually fully recharged version of that same item first

basically sell an uncharged Cap to any vendor and when you buy it right back it was charged magically. THAT was broken.

That actually sounds kind of convenient lol.

[Nuggie]

Dude, chill. Why are you trying to escalate everything into fucking drama?

The brevity of my post must have made the point I was making confusing. I'm sorry for that. To be more clear:

The OP is asking why item recharging isn't considered a game breaking exploit by nilbog and taken out. Nilbog made this server to recreate, as close as he can possibly get, a classic experience. The original eq devs, while designing and implementing many features throughout the years, have created things that we, the original game playerbase, adapted to other uses. Sometimes they would throw the ban hammer down and call them exploits (Conquest on Lanys for healing through the Z axis in ST to keep healers out of the AoE). But many many more times they would consider what we came up with as a clever use of their mechanics. As has been previously mentioned, emergent gameplay. Thsee types of things they sanctioned and mostly left alone.

To apply that to P99, Nilbog, except in very rare cases, recreates these designs and implements them as they were on live. To the best of his ability and time allowances. So back to answer the OP, nilbog does things for this reason. That was his goal, his guiding light, his compass. He has stayed, mostly, true to this regardless of what any of the 20,000 people (estimate, not factual number) who have come and gone since 2009 have said or thought. So my advice is to "chill out" and enjoy the game for what it is. A very small number of people have a "say" on what and how the server is made and managed. None of them are in this thread. Worry about things you can control, not debate endlessly things you can not. Or futility choose to do so, instead of actually playing the game the original devs, and nilbog through extension, have graced us with the opportunity to play.

I hope that clears up my point.

[Glasken]

The brevity of my post must have made the point I was making confusing. I'm sorry for that. To be more clear:

The OP is asking why item recharging isn't considered a game breaking exploit by nilbog and taken out. Nilbog made this server to recreate, as close as he can possibly get, a classic experience. The original eq devs, while designing and implementing many features throughout the years, have created things that we, the original game playerbase, adapted to other uses. Sometimes they would throw the ban hammer down and call them exploits (Conquest on Lanys for healing through the Z axis in ST to keep healers out of the AoE). But many many more times they would consider what we came up with as a clever use of their mechanics. As has been previously mentioned, emergent gameplay. Thsee types of things they sanctioned and mostly left alone.

To apply that to P99, Nilbog, except in very rare cases, recreates these designs and implements them as they were on live. To the best of his ability and time allowances. So back to answer the OP, nilbog does things for this reason. That was his goal, his guiding light, his compass. He has stayed, mostly, true to this regardless of what any of the 20,000 people (estimate, not factual number) who have come and gone since 2009 have said or thought. So my advice is to "chill out" and enjoy the game for what it is. A very small number of people have a "say" on what and how the server is made and managed. None of them are in this thread. Worry about things you can control, not debate endlessly things you can not. Or futility choose to do so, instead of actually playing the game the original devs, and nilbog through extension, have graced us with the opportunity to play.

I hope that clears up my point.


This is beautiful, 5/7 would re-read.