Running+strafing question

[fischsemmel]

Edit after 4 pages of the thread - half of you are saying "lol you guys can't figure out how to make it work" and half of you are saying "lol you can't outrun anything so why bother?"

Here is when it matters: when kiting snared stuff. No, maybe it isn't worth running+strafing and managing your angle as you are going across WK. No, maybe you can't outrun something you accidentally aggrod while on a corpse run. But that extra bit of speed DOES make a difference when you're running away from something you snared (or when they are not snared and you have a run speed boost)... because the quicker you're going, the sooner you can get off another spell or whatever without the NPC(s) behind you catching up and beating you down/interrupting your spell.

Another edit after 5 pages - Tested running+strafing today across 2-ish minute runs along a path I could not possibly have messed up, and over a few repititions strafing+running was 10ish% faster than just straight up running.


I seem to remember that back in the day, you would run more quickly by running forwards AND strafing than just running forwards. I don't know if that is the case on live anymore... but is that how it works on this server?

It kind of feels like it does in game, but I haven't played around with it enough to really know.

[Cribanox]

Hit something
run
you have your asnwer

[fischsemmel]

Hit something
run
you have your asnwer

Yay, a troll! Well either a troll or a stupid person, what with the "advice" he tried to give me not being coherent and not actually providing any insight into the situation and all.

Stay off drugs and stay in school, kids.

[Cribanox]

I don't get it, you post on the forums asking a question that you can easily answer yourself by just trying it on any fucking monster in everquest, and I'm stupid?

[fischsemmel]

I don't get it, you post on the forums asking a question that you can easily answer yourself by just trying it on any fucking monster in everquest, and I'm stupid?

Hey, it's not like I posted blindly and want to be spoonfed. I indicated that I've played around with running vs. running+strafing on the server, and I indicated that I felt like it was a little faster.

But if there IS a difference, it's a very small one, and it's not really the kind of difference I can measure without spending more time on it than I have right now. Hence I posted on here, made as much clear, and asked a simple yes or no question.

You either missed or chose to ignore things I said in my OP, acted as if I was an idiot while not putting together a sensible post yourself, and then didn't/couldn't even answer with a "yes" or a "no." What would you expect me to think you are, other than a troll or a moron?

[Droxx]

Yes. Running forward and strafing is faster. Will it save you? Not always. Is it going to hurt? Probably not.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Despite the butthurtedness and ire that has polluted the opening of this thread, I actually would be interested on the specifics of the speed difference. Do players regularly abuse this glitch? (and it is almost certainly a glitch) is the difference 10%? 5%? i googled quick and got no real answers, but several guides cite it as a real thing. Easiest thing to do is race someone with equal agility in game. But then ping gets involved somehow im sure blah blah blah...

[Duma]

Axis bug. Still active on live to my knowledge as it was part of the core engine and couldn't be fixed.

Whenever you travel on 2 or more axis the speeds all get added together and you move faster than you should. Most people used it unknowingly the few couple weeks bunny hopping repeatedly to escape mobs. Then stamina got "altered" in a patch as a bandaid for the problem. Some people just started walking diagonally with mouselook on and found it worked too.

It works in other games as well.

[Broggernaut]

Despite the butthurtedness and ire that has polluted the opening of this thread, I actually would be interested on the specifics of the speed difference. Do players regularly abuse this glitch? (and it is almost certainly a glitch) is the difference 10%? 5%? i googled quick and got no real answers, but several guides cite it as a real thing. Easiest thing to do is race someone with equal agility in game. But then ping gets involved somehow im sure blah blah blah...

?

[Rhambuk]

I seem to remember that back in the day, you would run more quickly by running forwards AND strafing than just running forwards. I don't know if that is the case on live anymore... but is that how it works on this server?

It kind of feels like it does in game, but I haven't played around with it enough to really know.

Its worthless. running+strafing Running + jumping.

You cant get away from mobns they are ALL faster than you, fight and die its better than trying to run

[fastboy21]

extremely noticeable when you strafe while hide/sneaking as rogue. i've gotten quite used to strafe walking in dungeons.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

agility governs run speed right?

[Broggernaut]

agility governs run speed right?

Not so far as I know

Factors for your running speed I believe are spells, songs, and encumbrance. I seem to remember levitation playing a part, but that might have to do with only when you're over weight.

If you are encumbered, it has a detrimental effect on your agility, but agility does not decide your traveling speed.

[Estu]

1) Agility has nothing to do with run speed. Being encumbered does. That also happens to lower your agility, but the two are not related.

2) Running and strafing, as well as running and jumping, both increase your run speed. You can easily see this because if you just run straight, monsters will catch up to you, but if you run and strafe or run and jump, you can outrun them. This is a very useful tool if you overpulled in an outdoor zone.

[Rhambuk]

1) Agility has nothing to do with run speed. Being encumbered does. That also happens to lower your agility, but the two are not related.

2) Running and strafing, as well as running and jumping, both increase your run speed. You can easily see this because if you just run straight, monsters will catch up to you, but if you run and strafe or run and jump, you can outrun them. This is a very useful tool if you overpulled in an outdoor zone.

you MAY outrun then MAY.

I have tried strafe/running jumping and it doesn't do dick. There is no point in trying to run personally I actually stand less of a chance of survival if i try and run as opposed to standing and dying at least with standing there I MIGHT win the fight as opposed to running i guaranteed die...


Fix the fucking runspeed already christ its been over a year

[Gorgetrapper]

you MAY outrun then MAY.

I have tried strafe/running jumping and it doesn't do dick. There is no point in trying to run personally I actually stand less of a chance of survival if i try and run as opposed to standing and dying at least with standing there I MIGHT win the fight as opposed to running i guaranteed die...


Fix the fucking runspeed already christ its been over a year

I don't know what your problem is, but with ANY character, I can just run + strafe and I will outrun ANY mob that doesn't have a natural FAST run, or has SoW on them. I only run +strafe AND jump, when I'm desperately trying to get away because of the possibility of adds.

[Lazortag]

I have tried strafe/running jumping and it doesn't do dick. There is no point in trying to run personally I actually stand less of a chance of survival if i try and run as opposed to standing and dying at least with standing there I MIGHT win the fight as opposed to running i guaranteed die...

I have like a 99% success rate with strafe running. I think you have a technical issue that you're not aware of rham, there's no explanation for why it wouldn't work for you but would work for me (as well as others)

[Rhambuk]

Nah I've been playing for 1 year, minus a few weeks, and I've NEVER ONCE outran a mob with strafe run or strafe run jump or strafe jump or any combo.


Run speed is so slow on this server it really doesnt matter what you do unless you have a golden dick you cant outrun mobs.

[Estu]

Nah I've been playing for 1 year, minus a few weeks, and I've NEVER ONCE outran a mob with strafe run or strafe run jump or strafe jump or any combo.


Run speed is so slow on this server it really doesnt matter what you do unless you have a golden dick you cant outrun mobs.

Other people can outrun mobs just fine with these methods. You have a problem with your computer or connection. Stop being all pissy and blaming the server for it (though there are run speed problems).

[Rhambuk]

okay So instead of being pissy about Clientside runspeed I can....
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tried it

any other suggestions?

[Cribanox]

Im also sure it doesn't work, mostly because of the mob's hitboxes being abnormally long-reaching.

[Rhambuk]

Im also sure it doesn't work, mostly because of the mob's hitboxes being abnormally long-reaching.

mob hitbox is so ridiculously huge Ive checked in obscure views and I can not get out of mobs hitbox no matter what I do, unless im in mountspeed.


P.S. Kardashians....fucking disgusting,.

[yaaaflow]

Try it on a different computer + connection. Since it works for like literally everyone except you if you still fail after trying it on a different computer then you might be handicapped.

[Rhambuk]

Try it on a different computer + connection. Since it works for like literally everyone except you if you still fail after trying it on a different computer then you might be handicapped.

Considering I've talked to a number of people on the server with the EXACT same issue, I doubt its on my side. I mean unless all of these people are secretly hijacking my wifi...

[Walabaego]

Noticed the talk about not being able to simply run straight+jump to get away from mobs....

-People hijack Wifi all the time my friend, secure it asap.-

Running+jumping does work as long as your hp % is above...25? 30? If % is too low you will not be able to run+jump away as you will basically start walking, uncon, KO.

I'm no expert/pro just some personal experience with the run+jump to safety. I now make it a point to dip mode at 35% or so if possible. If you are in a dungeon, I'd say take the death instead of training the zone, but shit does happen.

[Lazortag]

okay So instead of being pissy about Clientside runspeed I can....
...
....
.............
....................
..............................
......................................
........................................
.................................................. .........
.................................................. ..................

tried it

any other suggestions?

Why does it work for some people, and not for others? I have mediocre internet and a fairly old computer, so it's not related to that. Running it on wineq2 alone fixed it for my gf's laptop. I'm guessing from your post that you've tried the solutions that are listed here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3609), but if not, I hope that helps!

[Itchybottom]

It doesn't work because of the increased mob run speeds on the server, period. Try fearing something, with a low level snare in place and watch how it can outrun you trying to chase it, even strafe running.

Strafe running only works when the z-axis code kicks in and causes the mob to pop back up (or stop from bouncing, thus down) in z-axis, saving you a few milliseconds. The moment you stop moving, its on you, you never gain any distance. So if you really need to outrun something, strafe run when there is an elevation change (or continue beating this dead horse -- seems no one here wants to address the issue properly.)

Some mobs on live you could actually outrun without strafe running -- beetles in particular. I haven't tested here, but I'd guess they're just as fast as everything else.

[Rhambuk]

Some mobs on live you could actually outrun without strafe running -- beetles in particular. I haven't tested here, but I'd guess they're just as fast as everything else.

I remember auto running in a straight line and after 2 or 3 jumps be far enough ahead of the mob i could afk as long as my path was clear and run all the way to zone safely.

I may have read that a long time ago the devs can't tune down mob run speed anymore because it would be game breakingly slow.... little hungover so I dont exactly remember...

[Alkorin]

Some mobs on live you could actually outrun without strafe running -- beetles in particular. I haven't tested here, but I'd guess they're just as fast as everything else.

Tested, and correct, they are just as fast as everything else.

[fischsemmel]

Its worthless. running+strafing Running + jumping.

Wrong. Even assuming running+strafing doesn't make you fast enough to ever outrun any NPC in the game, if it makes you any faster whatsoever it has value.

No, it might not be worth the little bit of time you save running through WK to deal with the hassle of managing the angled run through the whole zone... but what about for kiting classes?

I'm pretty sure being 5% or 10% faster on my necro as he is trying to get far enough away from Misty Storyswapper (who probably has a darkness spell on her) to get a fear off without her catching me... I'm pretty sure that is not worthless. In fact, it might even be "very freaking awesome", depending on how much you like faster+easier+safer xp.

[korrowan]

Learn 2 jboot.

[fischsemmel]

Learn 2 jboot.

More trolls!

[korrowan]

More trolls!

Naw its the truth at least for anyone that already has a 50. I will never play another toon without jboots or the ability to Sow.

[hammerton]

you could not out run mobs in classic and you cannot now. Jumping helps avoid a few hits but they will always catch up. i have no idea what half of you are talking about. the strafe walking thing really only helps when sneaking.

[Engraverwilliam]

"You cant get away from mobs they are ALL faster than you, fight and die its better than trying to run"

I only try to run to a spot that will be better for a corpse retrieval. Buy the time I realize that I probably should have ran it is usually to late because I am usually sooo encumbered anyway. Just find a nice piece of dirt to take your nap.


to OP
It used to work wonders in outdoor zones on live, however I find it useless here because the mobs run stupidly fast.

[Dr4z3r]

The real key to running away from mobs on this server is to not run in a straight line. Mobs have stupidly-giant hitboxes directly in front of them, but the moment you turn you pop right out of it.

6 straight levels of swarm-kiting taught me this very well.

[ir0nfist]

Wow, so many people can't strafe run? This did work on classic live and it works here. I do it all the time. I can outrun mobs from one side of the longest zone to the other if I need to. Just to clarify how I personally do this, you press forward and strafe simultaneously and angle yourself at a diagonal so you run in a straight line with character facing diagonally from that line. Occassionally, they may catch up to you at which point you jump (off a hill if you can to gain more distance) and you are good. Again, I do this all the time, there is absolutely no question that it works. If it doesn't work for you, you are doing it wrong.

[Raistin]

it works for me, and the way I use it the most is when im encumbered. Easily tested to, encumber yourself to the point of crawling, then strafe and move forward at the same time, ull move at almost regular run speed. I was able to RUN from EC tunnel to NFP bank with 10k plat on my little gnome necro, and he was actually running, no sow/str buffs

[Rhambuk]

Theres no question that strafe running increases your run speed, but its simply not enough to escape from mobs for some players.

whether its lag or what I don't know, but I've talked to a lot of people on this server over the last year that have this issue. For people that can get away congratulations! because its impossible for some of us =p

[Fourthmeal]

Should have been a bard

[Folkar]

I've only been on P99 a few days, but I've been using strafing successfully when I need to without problem. However, if I'm already low enough health to slow me down, there isn't much of a point other than to maybe get another 2 or 3 feet away from where you would otherwise die.

For example, I was using this at level 2 and 3 to train the vengeful soloist (or maybe it was composer) to the guards in Everfrost Peaks so they don't come up behind me when i'm dealing with bears and such. As long as I survive the one or two initial hits and don't get stunned, it works fine.

My question is, would this be seen as exploiting pathing? This one is kind of a grey area, and I'd rather just stop doing it if it is frowned upon.

[Estu]

I've only been on P99 a few days, but I've been using strafing successfully when I need to without problem. However, if I'm already low enough health to slow me down, there isn't much of a point other than to maybe get another 2 or 3 feet away from where you would otherwise die.

For example, I was using this at level 2 and 3 to train the vengeful soloist (or maybe it was composer) to the guards in Everfrost Peaks so they don't come up behind me when i'm dealing with bears and such. As long as I survive the one or two initial hits and don't get stunned, it works fine.

My question is, would this be seen as exploiting pathing? This one is kind of a grey area, and I'd rather just stop doing it if it is frowned upon.

Technically, druid kiting is an exploit. Don't worry about it.

[AexDestroy]

I read this post, and my response is composed of relevant data.

[freakyuno]

I havent done any type of testing on P99 - but on Live this DID work.

I think some of you are confusing "outrunning" the mob (IE: Gaining distance on them), with the reality of what happened and why it did work.

I haven't played EQ since early POP, and really haven't used this on live since newb days, but here's basically what happened:

There's a algorithmic function that server side code uses to close the distance between you and mobs. This was based on your client side last reported position to the server, and the mobs last reported position to the client.

If you ran in a straight line, the function worked properly and the mob would close the distance (because most were faster that players slightly), and keep hitting you.

If you used the "Strafe" trick, which basically meant you were operating at a constantly updating diagonal, the function didn't know how to get the mob to you. Because of the way the mob movement code worked, it moved on one axis, then the other, not on diagonals. If you strafed, then stopped, the mob would walk on one axis, then the other in a straight line to you, but as long as you kept strafing, the server side code couldn't decide quick enough that the mob could hit you, before it needed to update again. Literally you could strafe all the way across the Karanas with a mob on your heals and not get hit. There were exceptions to this of course. If the mob was faster than normal mob movement speed, if you were slowed down in some way, or the z-axis came into play. IE: You started to head up a hill, and the mob continued through it (yes it happened).

This however didn't work on all mobs, nor in all zones, and if you stopped for even a millisecond, the mob was close enough to start hitting you again.

[Lazortag]

I havent done any type of testing on P99 - but on Live this DID work.

I think some of you are confusing "outrunning" the mob (IE: Gaining distance on them), with the reality of what happened and why it did work.

I haven't played EQ since early POP, and really haven't used this on live since newb days, but here's basically what happened:

There's a algorithmic function that server side code uses to close the distance between you and mobs. This was based on your client side last reported position to the server, and the mobs last reported position to the client.

If you ran in a straight line, the function worked properly and the mob would close the distance (because most were faster that players slightly), and keep hitting you.

If you used the "Strafe" trick, which basically meant you were operating at a constantly updating diagonal, the function didn't know how to get the mob to you. Because of the way the mob movement code worked, it moved on one axis, then the other, not on diagonals. If you strafed, then stopped, the mob would walk on one axis, then the other in a straight line to you, but as long as you kept strafing, the server side code couldn't decide quick enough that the mob could hit you, before it needed to update again. Literally you could strafe all the way across the Karanas with a mob on your heals and not get hit. There were exceptions to this of course. If the mob was faster than normal mob movement speed, if you were slowed down in some way, or the z-axis came into play. IE: You started to head up a hill, and the mob continued through it (yes it happened).

This however didn't work on all mobs, nor in all zones, and if you stopped for even a millisecond, the mob was close enough to start hitting you again.

The way you described it is how it works on this server for most people. However there's a large population (probably most vista users) who have a technical issue that slows their runspeed. There's an easy fix but since it's not really mentioned in the startup guide and affects a lot of people, it's gotten to be a fairly annoying problem and so you see a lot of people complaining about it publicly more than you see them complaining about other bugs.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

link the fix then smarty pants and then we can close this stupid thread

[Nedala]

Is the fix wineq2? Because they fail to send regristration email to an rl friend of mine, so he cant use it :(