PvP in Hate/Fear

[Scratch&Sniff]

Ok, i know everyone who was there had a great time when Rogean flagged us all for pvp in hate the other night, so here is another post similar to auto-pvp at 50.

Can we have one zone, that is pvp all the time. I think hate would be perfect for this, with all the wall to dodge spells, and places to hide.

I see one major flaw, Corpse camping at zone in, and as long as this didnt happen to much, it could be really fun.
And before you tell me this would happen for sure, if the zone was pvp in the same way arena was. The zone in house could be non pvp, also coming from zek, i have been corpse camped in the past, but most people i have found really dont do it that much, its boring and make people hate you so much.

So PVP in hate forever? yes or no?

[Nocte]

No.

[senna]

Casters cant duel wield.

[YendorLootmonkey]

No. EQ is not balanced for PVP.

[Salty]

not for rangers

[Jadian]

Shit doesn't have to be balanced to be fun. EQ isn't balanced. An enchanter can solo the Ghoul Lord and Frenzy spawns simultaneously, a warrior can't even tank those rooms without a CHealing cleric and extra DPS.

[senna]

well.. you cant really argue with stone cold logic like that.

[Scratch&Sniff]

whatever rangers can track, uber in PVP, not balanced? whatever, just gotta stay on your toes, use hide, use camo, use snare and dot and run, work with a team.

Edit- get your war some MR gear for pvp, he will do fine!

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Rangers are shock troops in PVP. I am shocked when they survive. Come to think of it, I am shocked when they survive PVE!

[Rhambuk]

No, theres already a zone designated for pvp that's never used, there are arenas in most cities that are never used, there are almost no people red flagged. I don't think people want pvp just because you force a popular zone pvp doesn't mean people want it it just forces them to deal with it.

[Lazortag]

Lots of small aspiring raid guilds would probably not like having Hate or Fear be pvp, since those are the zones they first hit up when they start raiding (as it's unlikely they'd be able to snatch a dragon kill or progress very far in Sky). If either of these zones were pvp it would be really unfair for these guilds (since these are realistically the only zones they can clear and they'd be at a disadvantage in pvp because of their guild's size), and thus less of these guilds would be formed. I think it's good for the server to have more guilds trying out raiding and competing for mobs.

If you want to have events like this occasionally, fine, but doing it 100% of the time disproportionately hurts smaller guilds.

[karsten]

actually, i would love the planes to be pvp, and this is coming from someone being part of a currently small guild

[Lazortag]

How could it possibly be to your advantage to make the planes pvp?

[karsten]

well it may or may not be, depending on our skill level, but i would prefer it be that way as opposed to not be that way

[Slathar]

lazortag's a dainty choir boy who likes speaking french and karsten is a battle torn warlord from the hilltribes

[Lazortag]

well it may or may not be, depending on our skill level, but i would prefer it be that way as opposed to not be that way

Fair enough karsten, but it's reasonable to suspect that pvp in the planes causes enough of a disadvantage for smaller, up-and-coming guilds that we would err on the side of caution and just not do it 100% of the time, regardless of the fact that there may be some small guilds (like yours) who would prefer it.

[Estu]

lazortag's a dainty choir boy who likes speaking french and karsten is a battle torn warlord from the hilltribes

This is the best sentence.

[YendorLootmonkey]

If you want PVP, I believe the Priest of Disorder is looking for your tome.

[Mcbard]

This doesn't sound classic to me.

[Jenni D]

whenever these kind of topics come up, you have to laugh. exactly how is one zone, PVP-only, classic?

[Dr4z3r]

Can we have one zone, that is pvp all the time.

Classic already has ya covered, buddy: http://moestaverne.com/p1999wiki/index.php/The_Arena

Have fun!

[Arshis]

Old school EQ was pvp balanced, maybe except for a Mage really. It was not until Vex Thall came out and people ended up with like 255 in all resists that casters didn't stand a chance at killing people. Then around pop wizards got lure spells(non resistible) that brought them back in the game. Tho enchanters and cleric had it the worst as far as pvp goes during the pop days.

[Yoite]

enc had it best during pop days, the ancient mes could not be resisted. Mes, nuke, mes, nuke, mes, nuke, mes, nuke. You couldn't get away unless you could instant exodus.

[KilyenaMage]

Fair enough karsten, but it's reasonable to suspect that pvp in the planes causes enough of a disadvantage for smaller, up-and-coming guilds that we would err on the side of caution and just not do it 100% of the time, regardless of the fact that there may be some small guilds (like yours) who would prefer it.

What made you think Karsten cares about small, up-and-coming guilds!? I'm fairly certain he doesn't give a shit.

[Arshis]

enc had it best during pop days, the ancient mes could not be resisted. Mes, nuke, mes, nuke, mes, nuke, mes, nuke. You couldn't get away unless you could instant exodus.


I just remember enchanters nuking me for like 9 dmg even with tash. Mez was more or less annoying and if they tried to charm kill me with a pet (cancel magic or the wand thing, took care of pets easily enough, everyone ran around with those on Tallon). I felt like they had it ruff is all. Not trying to dis on the enchanters! They did get some killer pets and could easily catch people off guard.

[Yoite]

well after getting locked down by an enc a few times like this i always kept flame lick dot on myself in case one snuck up on me.

Oh the good ole days of Tallon Zek. Dummy buffing, doing /who like every 30sseconds, danger awaited you everywhere you went. was awesome!

[fischsemmel]

exactly how is one zone, PVP-only, classic?

In the same way that my necro being able to med at level 28 without staring at a spellbook is classic.

[fohkure]

All this balance talk, i thought i accidently found my way to a WoW forum or something.

The kind of people (for the most part) that play p99 are not pvp-oriented people. It's just the way it is. I only played on pvp servers on live, but there is no point in complaining about p99 not being pvp. Rogean and company are nice enough to serve the public, and that is what they want.

PoD is the stupidest thing ever. If you turn in that book you are estranged from the entire server. If all that turning that book in did was make me susceptible to being PK'd, i'd do it in a heartbeat. But if i turn in that book, I cannot raid, group, get buffs, give buffs, or do anything but sit in EC and wait for some one to try and kill me.

"turn in your book if you want pvp" is a retarded argument, you all should really stop using it.

Chris

[Alkorin]

"This server should be PvP because I said so" is just as ridiculous an argument, and yet, it's all over the place.

If there were enough like-minded people, you could turn in your books and life would be grand. There aren't.

[Stibe]

All this balance talk, i thought i accidently found my way to a WoW forum or something.

The kind of people (for the most part) that play p99 are not pvp-oriented people. It's just the way it is. I only played on pvp servers on live, but there is no point in complaining about p99 not being pvp. Rogean and company are nice enough to serve the public, and that is what they want.

PoD is the stupidest thing ever. If you turn in that book you are estranged from the entire server. If all that turning that book in did was make me susceptible to being PK'd, i'd do it in a heartbeat. But if i turn in that book, I cannot raid, group, get buffs, give buffs, or do anything but sit in EC and wait for some one to try and kill me.

"turn in your book if you want pvp" is a retarded argument, you all should really stop using it.

Chris

Want pvp? go to the arena, or start your own pvp server.

[Versus]

It couldn't possible hurt to make some arbitrary out of the way zone pvp. Lake Rathe? Something like this, but with less water.

[Chanus]

It couldn't possible hurt to make some arbitrary out of the way zone pvp. Lake Rathe? Something like this, but with less water.

The Arena is pretty out of the way.

[Giovanni]

If you want PVP, I believe the Priest of Disorder is looking for your tome.

Eliminate the buffing restriction and I think some people would actually do it. That way the pvpers wouldn't interfere with the pvers as well.

[Fourthmeal]

start a pee vee pee server plz

[Scratch&Sniff]

the arena sucks because preplanned PVP is no fun.

[Hobby]

I have started asking guilds if they would like PvP turned on when there are 2 or more similar numbered guilds in a zone clearing trash. If one of the guild's officer says no then I will not do it, but the option to have PvP turned on in an empty zone to dick around might spruce things up a small bit.

Hell, I for one am completely disgusted at the fact people are poopsocking raid-boss's and bitch at each other over every single target. I would be all for turning PvP on within a rather large radius of a spawn point for a target just to shut people up lol =\ but alas, having PvP forced upon people would not be fair to those who may wish to NOT PvP.


There simply is not a way to please everyone, and that is the reality we will have to contend with. Small things such as re-writing the PvP code to allow outside buffs and heals might encourage more people to go red, but for P99 to ever have an active PvP gameplay it would have to be forced and then bye-bye 70% of the server.

[vinx]

I have started asking guilds if they would like PvP turned on when there are 2 or more similar numbered guilds in a zone clearing trash.
Thanks for asking! half of us were on auto-pilot util that came into play LOL
got us all excited for a few mins

option to have PvP turned on in an empty zone to dick around might spruce things up a small bit.
Good idea, if a zone is empty and you toss a serverwide message once a month or somethin for like an hour or so,
im sure you'd get people runnin out for some fun. (possibly more if we had a heads up)

There simply is not a way to please everyone, and that is the reality we will have to contend with.
True, if there was one game to please all, im not sure id like it just for that fact :P

[Acillatem]

I usually don't respond to these types of threads but...

EQ PvP was never 100% balanced. BUT, it was as close to being balanced as it could get from Classic thru Velious which puts this server in the sweet spot for PvP.

People who say "if you want PvP, there's a zone already PvP enabled" are missing the whole point of PvP. It wasn't JUST about fighting other players - it was about zone control, spawn control, the thrill of doing /who every 30 seconds (a habit I STILL do from my TZ days), /guildstat every anon person around, reputations were more important (as an individual AND as a Guild). It was knowing that you weren't about to try and "solo" Frenzied cuz you were gunna get smoked by that full group. It meant Guild Alliances etc.

In other words - it was everything that came WITH PvP - not just killing other players that made it exciting. It meant the rivalries were that much better and the alliances were that much stronger. Player-enforced rules (we called them Play Nice Policies) actually worked. GM's didn't get involved if there was a "PvP option" to take care of the situation.

It wasn't until Luclin/PoP that PvP started to get seriously imbalanced, and even then it wasn't because of class, it was because the gap between casuals and hardcores got to the point that it became more gear based than skill based. But early PvP was fukin awesome. Casuals could go toe-to-toe with hardcores because skill made a difference up thru Velious which meant the entire server was in it to win it.

Also - as far as finding "likeminded" individuals to go Team:Red, then I ostracize myself from the rest of the server should I need a SoW, Clarity, etc down the line, or an XP group and no friends are online etc. If I could still receive heals/buffs/ports etc and turn in my book I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Until then tho - that's simply not an option for those who want PvP.

[jilena]

I dunno why everyone always QQs about class balance in PvP. I always thought "balanced" PvP was boring as shit. The more "equal" classes become the more similar they become and the more dumbed down the combat feels.

Then there are the folks who are saying things like "Go PvP in the arena!" who are either predisposed to hating PvP, or are folks who enjoy DAoC style meaningless PvP. I would love to see all endgame raiding changed from poopsocking to might makes right. Hell I'd even have some interest in raiding if the GMs just took a hands off approach and let the best trainers/KSers win the day. Full on PvP would be dreamy.

Of course, none of this is classic and too many "sure it's not classic but it's fun so let's change it!" implementations and pretty soon it would completely lose that classic feel. A completely seperate PvP Project1999 with some mix of Rallos/Sullon (i.e. FFA with exp/item loss and able to kill anyone but 5 level range for penalties to be applied) rules would be awesome though. *shrug*

[Chanus]

What if going Red wasn't a permanent, nearly-unchangeable option?

Not sure how easy that would be to do, but if reasonably possible, why not a /pvp on/off toggle?

[jilena]

Maybe have a "/target Priest of Discord" "/say give me my book back bitch" with maybe a 20-30 minute window required to change back.

[Hobby]

priest of order is roaming South Qeynos or North qeynos...whatever is connected to QHills


I hear he works cheap!

[YendorLootmonkey]

I dunno why everyone always QQs about class balance in PvP. I always thought "balanced" PvP was boring as shit. The more "equal" classes become the more similar they become and the more dumbed down the combat feels.

Ah, you sound like a caster class. ;)

[Rhambuk]

Ah, you sound like a caster class. ;)

^^^

Balance is never an issue...

as long as you're winning

[Slathar]

anyone saying melees sucked at pvp obviously didnt play on a pvp server.

[YendorLootmonkey]

anyone saying melees sucked at pvp obviously didnt play on a pvp server.

Depends on what era you're talking about. Would love to PVP post-Luclin on my ranger. ;) Pre-Luclin, not so much.

[Slathar]

Depends on what era you're talking about. Would love to PVP post-Luclin on my ranger. ;) Pre-Luclin, not so much.

pre-kunark okay melees were at a big disadvantage, kunark got better and by velious melee groups would absolutely destroy a group of casters

[fohkure]

Want pvp? go to the arena, or start your own pvp server.

Wow, so you obviously didn't even bother reading my post. Good job on the "insert #4 anti-pvp response here _____; regardless of what was actually said in the post" technique.

Chris

[mimixownzall]

Old school EQ was pvp balanced, maybe except for a Mage really. It was not until Vex Thall came out and people ended up with like 255 in all resists that casters didn't stand a chance at killing people. Then around pop wizards got lure spells(non resistible) that brought them back in the game. Tho enchanters and cleric had it the worst as far as pvp goes during the pop days.

Clearly you are talking out your ass. The fact that pvp wasn't "balanced" is what made eq pvp so awesome. It promoted grouping, and it made players have to think when it came to fighting. None of the mind numbing one on one balance bullshit of wow. Combat was true combat. Fair fights are a myth. You do what you need to in order to win. Eq pvp brought that out more than any other mmo currently out.

[mimixownzall]

If the buffing restrictions were lifted on reds, you would see a lot more people doing it.

[Giovanni]

PvP fight from today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM-N_hlDt_s&feature=youtube_gdata

[YendorLootmonkey]

Clearly you are talking out your ass. The fact that pvp wasn't "balanced" is what made eq pvp so awesome. It promoted grouping, and it made players have to think when it came to fighting. None of the mind numbing one on one balance bullshit of wow. Combat was true combat. Fair fights are a myth. You do what you need to in order to win. Eq pvp brought that out more than any other mmo currently out.

Because nothing would be more rewarding than an exhausting fight in LGuk breaking Lord or Frenzy and pulling it off just before your healers go out of mana and your tank loses all of his HP, only to have a full mana caster gate in, gank you all with an AoE spell, and send your entire group on a 2-hour CR for the rest of the evening.

No thank you, I don't have time for that bullshit. Turn in your book so you can PVP with your like-minded PVPers to your heart's content while leaving the rest of us to the PVE game. Get enough people to turn in their books, and it'll be as close to what you're talking about as you can get, right???

[Rhambuk]

Eq pvp was not balanced and definitely not fun because of it, what melee wants to have to go lfg to run from ec to lguk so they don't get ganked by a caster 7 levels under them.

Isn't there already a pvp server tz/vz? what's wrong with that one no population? I can't imagine why there are obviously so many people wanting pvp...

[Roscoe]

I'm totally down with this idea, as long as I get to play as Innoruuk in Hate & CT in Fear.

Seriously though, I think this is a horrible idea. Newer Guilds would fall victim to larger, more well equipped Guilds instead of being able to raid the NPCs & it's just not classic..

[Jadian]

Christ you guys whine a lot.

Same people that put every game on "EASY" the first time they play it I bet.

[YendorLootmonkey]

If you're all in for PVP, turn in your book. Start the trend. Convince all of your other like-minded PVP leet d00ds to turn in their books. Since this is such a supposedly prevalent mindset, you should have no problem getting enough of the server to turn red such that we blues are in the minority and are the ones that can't find groups because we can't buff/be buffed by reds, right?

Oh wait... the thirty or so of you can't do that.

Because staying in the PVE game (i.e. being able to be buffed/healed by blues) is MORE IMPORTANT to you than turning in your books, going PVP, and trying to start a "red revolution." Ah-ha!

So instead you have to appeal to the GMs to make certain zones PVP to FORCE IT on the rest of us because the PVP mindset is the minority and you can't just turn in your books to turn the tables on us blues on the server legitimately.

You want PVP? Put your tome of discord where your mouth is and turn it in, along with all your PVP friends. Make it difficult for us blues to find groups so we have no choice but to turn in OUR tomes. If not, then STFU and play the PVE game like the rest of us.

[Kassel]

VD and Dozekar (op's guild) sitting in fear a few weeks ago, Hobby zones in and says "highest ranking officers sent me a tell"

VD guild leader tells guild, "Get ready for PVP all"
VD guild leader says "NM Doze said no"

So you may want to convince your own guild Grunny before you try and convince the server.

[Nixus]

Pvp would be cool.

[Alkorin]

Nixus from VZ?

[Scratch&Sniff]

VD and Dozekar (op's guild) sitting in fear a few weeks ago, Hobby zones in and says "highest ranking officers sent me a tell"

VD guild leader tells guild, "Get ready for PVP all"
VD guild leader says "NM Doze said no"

So you may want to convince your own guild Grunny before you try and convince the server.


I wasn't there =(, also, i do try and convince them all the time. i tried to get the whole guild to turn in there books, but you know how people and there none pvpness is. Also, i just made this thread to poke the minds of everyone. i think it would be really cool to have pvp in a new/diffrent way then it has been done before. lately i have been thinking it would be neat if the Vox room was pvp area, handled the same way as the in town arenas. or perhaps both naggy and vox room, could be fun.

Also, if there was a Priest of Order in freeport, i would flag every night, the priest of order is too far out, i tell people they can flag back, and they are like rly? im like yeah, but you gotta go to qeynos =/ and there are like ugg, if there was a priest of chaos/order in the tunnel it would be even better. Also, a pvp toggle that could be used every 30 min could be alot of fun too.

just sayin, im tryin to convince everyone i can, im not even saying this should be a pvp server, just tryin to brainstorm a way it could work and blend well with whats going on already.

[Scrooge]

I still think DAOC RvR/PvP beats any kind of EQ PvP!

[Scratch&Sniff]

I still think DAOC RvR/PvP beats any kind of EQ PvP!

i know a great classic DAOC server if you wanna check it out, i agree that DAOC is fun.

http://www.uthgard.net/

[Raylan]

Nixus from VZ?

wow that didnt take long. :)

[Chanus]

I wasn't there =(, also, i do try and convince them all the time. i tried to get the whole guild to turn in there books, but you know how people and there none pvpness is. Also, i just made this thread to poke the minds of everyone. i think it would be really cool to have pvp in a new/diffrent way then it has been done before. lately i have been thinking it would be neat if the Vox room was pvp area, handled the same way as the in town arenas. or perhaps both naggy and vox room, could be fun.

Also, if there was a Priest of Order in freeport, i would flag every night, the priest of order is too far out, i tell people they can flag back, and they are like rly? im like yeah, but you gotta go to qeynos =/ and there are like ugg, if there was a priest of chaos/order in the tunnel it would be even better. Also, a pvp toggle that could be used every 30 min could be alot of fun too.

just sayin, im tryin to convince everyone i can, im not even saying this should be a pvp server, just tryin to brainstorm a way it could work and blend well with whats going on already.

I think the problem here is while you may think it's awesome to have a zone or specific area of content flagged as PvP, it's not for the majority of people playing on the server. I think that's why you're seeing opposition.

The ideas of a toggle, or just making it easier to reach the Priest of Order are far more likely to be acceptable to most people as they don't directly interfere with the gameplay of people who don't want to PvP.

[Scrooge]

i know a great classic DAOC server if you wanna check it out, i agree that DAOC is fun.

http://www.uthgard.net/

I played there a few years back, it really is a fun server, it's not a "true classic" server but it's as good as it'll ever get...kinda like P99 for EQ. They also have a "no-boxing rule" among other minor similarities to P99..

[fohkure]

I still think DAOC RvR/PvP beats any kind of EQ PvP!

That might be the most fun i've ever had in a game. Inviting a couple lower level people to your group, going way out in the middle of nowhere, wait til they engage a mob, boot them and kill them. Ahh, good times.

Chris