So no chardok & no bard kiting... discuss

[baue1446]

Bummer or YAY!

[Izmael]

Bards can still swarm, it's just now pointless for them to pull a lot more than 25 mobs at once. Which is still a very nice number of mobs to solo without taking a single point of damage.

Chardok groups should be a little more complicated I suppose.

[Parz77]

WTS Chardok Proxy 500p per pull.

[Ravager]

Too little too late, the damage was done years ago.

[Borak]

Too little too late, the damage was done years ago.

True, but when a new server (green or blue) comes up, this will help.

[Tinino]

Too little too late, the damage was done years ago.

This is why they should wipe the server when they add a very important like this one.

[xKoopa]

I think the important thing is we got the extra spawns in highkeep now.. but a nerf to respawn time =/

Oh well, I think 4 more mobs will help make highkeep great again

[Stormfists]

The platlord syndicate will be crying.

Maybe staff didn't receive their monthly cut? Or maybe mortgages all paid of?

/ponder.

[danceparty]

The platlord syndicate will be crying.

Maybe staff didn't receive their monthly cut? Or maybe mortgages all paid of?

/ponder.

rotffl ^^

[derpcake]

Too little too late, the damage was done years ago.

[rdfg87]

If the Devs didn't want AOE's then they wouldn't of added them to the game. AOE is classic, been doing massive AOE's in EQ since mid 2000. Granted back in the day I would have to stare at floor when mobs were in but we did AOE.

[khanable]

^ bullshit

[Zorlon]

WTS A Metal Pipe (Chardok) MQ. 25k.

[Ravager]

WTS A Metal Pipe (Chardok) MQ. 25k.
People won't need to buy the MQ anymore because they can actually camp it now.

[Matalus]

Bring back skyshrine AoE

[Zorlon]

People won't need to buy the MQ anymore because they can actually camp it now.

"Anyone wanna do a Chardok bridge group? My monk needs Pipe"

*crickets*

[skarlorn]

Telin: Changed the name of "a huge water elemental" in Lower Guk to the classic "an huge water elemental" and increased its level range and difficulty.

That is the best patch, I'm very excited and proud of Telin

[jcr4990]

I gotta say I expected way more people to berg out when they made this change. All we got so far is some lameass (rdfg87) crying that AoEing is classic to justify his gamebreaking zone disrupting behavior. I'm disappointed at the lack of nerdrage in this thread.

[Ravager]

I gotta say I expected way more people to berg out when they made this change. All we got so far is some lameass (rdfg87) crying that AoEing is classic to justify his gamebreaking zone disrupting behavior. I'm disappointed at the lack of nerdrage in this thread.
dey took our merbs!

[JurisDictum]

A step in the right direction. We need to acknowledge when classic mechanics basically are being exploited beyond anything done on live. The shit wasn't working as intended...the impact was bad...fuckin fix it already

Now if we could just do something about raid windows....

[JurisDictum]

I gotta say I expected way more people to berg out when they made this change. All we got so far is some lameass (rdfg87) crying that AoEing is classic to justify his gamebreaking zone disrupting behavior. I'm disappointed at the lack of nerdrage in this thread.

The EQ fanatics that would bug out already have their 13 different 60 characters now. If not -- they can just hit up their extensive list of EQ fanatic buddies to PL them.

[zanderklocke]

25 mobs is still a fair amount of mobs. I think it's a pretty good compromise with the players. Power leveling and the such can happen, it'll just take longer. I'm curious if monk power levels will be faster than AoE power levels.

[Tasslehofp99]

The earliest I remember AoE groups happening on live was probably just before Luclin/during Luclin. I remember them being in Seb, no where else.

The pull would be from chef entrance area through the zone all the way to the disco pad. I never remember AoE groups anywhere else though, really.

[Tupakk]

The earliest I remember AoE groups happening on live was probably just before Luclin/during Luclin. I remember them being in Seb, no where else.

The pull would be from chef entrance area through the zone all the way to the disco pad. I never remember AoE groups anywhere else though, really.

Be very interested to see if anyone got that on tape.

[Detoxx]

A step in the right direction. We need to acknowledge when classic mechanics basically are being exploited beyond anything done on live. The shit wasn't working as intended...the impact was bad...fuckin fix it already

Now if we could just do something about raid windows....

Unfortunately, I've looked into this quite a bit and there was a +/- 10% variance added at some point in late kunark early velious. As it stands now, we currently have less variance on 7 day spawns than live. 3 day spawns would be +/- 7.2 hours, 7 days would be +/- 12.8. The only notable difference I saw was that there was spawn timers and respawn timers. For example a mob like Dain was a 7 day respawn but a 3 day spawn (the difference is spawn timers are after a patch or server down, respawns were after it was killed.)

[Detoxx]

Edit: 7 days would be +/- 16.8

[khanable]

variance too short plz fix

[kotton05]

Be very interested to see if anyone got that on tape.

I've seen it. Glad Chardok will be empty again for all my fellow monks.

[Tupakk]

I've seen it. Glad Chardok will be empty again for all my fellow monks.

Link? Or your own eyes?

[korzek]

This patch makes me extremely sad :*(

One of the greatest EQ experiences I had was during Luclin when I tried to bard aoe for the first time in Marus Seru. Gained 2 levels in a single pull (after dieing 6-7 times learning). I had a crappy computer too so I'm sure people were able to do this before Luclin. Just sad I'll never be able to feel this classic experience again :(

[bdastomper58]

variance too short plz fix

[Triiz]

^ bullshit

Not from 2000, but guide from late 2001 calling Sebilis AOE "evolving and an everyday event". "Sebilis AoE - The how to, Quellious server" http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6048-Sebilis-AoE-The-how-to-Quellious-server

I realize that's a bit later in the timeline than we are but two other threads from same site "What is the perfect AE group"and "AOE group - specifics on Enchanters role?" (http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6194-AOE-group-specifics-on-the-Enchanter-s-role ) are from earlier 2001 about where we are and judging by responses in those threads it was not brand new.



Granted I think Chardok was terrible for the server and didnt think AOE like that was classic either and these threads mention smaller scales (one says 35, one says 25) but knowing the classic EQ player base and the advances to technology around that time doubt it took long until they were doing 50+ mobs.

On another note, bards that are dicks and swarm in zones like Oasis or during peak hours Dreadlands will likely continue to be dicks and continue making everyone hate bards

[Tewaz]

Thanks for the heads up.





































































Dicks.

[Zziek]

Does anybody else feel like the 25 mob cap is just going to make swarm kiting MORE of a problem? So now instead of bards killing their mobs all at once, they have to kill them in groups of 25, potentially taking 4x longer to clear their mobs.

People aren't gonna pull less, they're just going to kill slower. The time difference doesn't really hurt the bard, because it doesn't stop them from running around in a circle for a little while longer. It hurts the players whose spawns are being taken by bards, because now they have to wait longer for the next spawn (in theory)

[Raev]

Not from 2000, but guide from late 2001 calling Sebilis AOE "evolving and an everyday event". "Sebilis AoE - The how to, Quellious server" http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6048-Sebilis-AoE-The-how-to-Quellious-server


In those threads they are talking about pulling 5 at once. A small yet significant difference from 150 in Chardok . . .

[Raev]

Ah reading further there are some groups doing 35 in Luclin. Still, far closer to 25 than 150.

[skarlorn]

nuthin frum loclin matters

[arsenalpow]

The phinny nerf is bard dots don't do damage if a target is moving. Do that IMO.

[Detoxx]

The phinny nerf is bard dots don't do damage if a target is moving. Do that IMO.

Phinny is dead

[azeth]

Not from 2000, but guide from late 2001 calling Sebilis AOE "evolving and an everyday event". "Sebilis AoE - The how to, Quellious server" http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6048-Sebilis-AoE-The-how-to-Quellious-server

From your own source:

"5. Don't get greedy. Pull in small groups and lock your mobs down. I would rather pull two-four at a time and have one enc on stun duty and the other on mez to lock them down than drop because my greedy ass went for the new world record. You can pull every mob in sebilis not behind a locked door with patience. If the puller drops then it doesn't take long for things to go awry. AoE doesn't allow for mistakes, and the punishment is severe."

read b4 post

[arsenalpow]

Phinny is dead

You retarded?

[Ravager]

You retarded?
Do you even have to ask?

[skarlorn]

Detox do you identify more as a fire giant or more as a sick man seeking significance through a depraved fantasy?

Thanks for your input

[Triiz]

read b4 post

LOL.


Looting ~ ALWAYS hook up the cleric with the first few gems. Especially in sebilis, they drop every 2 seconds when you're pulling up to 40.

That's 40, not 4.

When you have 800 points of epic skin to save your ass before you start getting hit, and 20 mobs on you that hit for 100+ all it takes is one stun and you will be dead in 2 seconds.
^^20




I've seen people use AE spells that hit four targets. I've seen enchanters think they're supposed to AE mez instead of stun when there's 20 on them.
^^ 20, specifically mentions people fucking up only using a 4 target AOE.




It can be very nice to see Cobalt Vambraces, a Bonecasters Robe, Cane of the Tranquil, 4 BD's, 2 Black sapphires, a Seb mantle, Book of Obulous, about 5 spells, 3 diamonds, and 30 or so random other gems drop off of one amazing pull.

Yup clearly they were only pulling 2-4 mobs at a time.


After all, you want the biggest train possible, don't you? =P



I like how you literally didn't read one fuckin word you disagreed with then told me to read before I post.

[FatMice]

How does this effect pulling in PoG, run ups in ToV, trains to move mobs, etc?

[nostalgiaquest]

On live, pre luclin, I used to AE the shit out of sebilis. Been a while but i believe the most common was to pull the entirety of D1 and D2. Hard to get more mobs as the place was always perma camped on the prexus server.

[Detoxx]

You retarded?

My mental capacity has no bearing on the statement I've made.

[arsenalpow]

My mental capacity has no bearing on the statement I've made.

So you're retarded. Noted.

[skarlorn]

LOL.




That's 40, not 4.


^^20





^^ 20, specifically mentions people fucking up only using a 4 target AOE.






Yup clearly they were only pulling 2-4 mobs at a time.






I like how you literally didn't read one fuckin word you disagreed with then told me to read before I post.

u mad? sounds like you're wrong bud tbh.

[Detoxx]

So you're retarded. Noted.

You got me, Chest! Sick burn.

Curious though, why you still posting here if you're on Phinny?

[ZiggyTheMuss]

It is a glorious day!

[arsenalpow]

You got me, Chest! Sick burn.

Curious though, why you still posting here if you're on Phinny?

No point in explaining it to you, you wouldn't be able to comprehend it. We've already established that.

[Parz77]

No point in explaining it to you, you wouldn't be able to comprehend it. We've already established that.

calls other people retarded, posts on forums of 15 yr old elf sim of server he doesnt play on. checks out.

[Relbaic]

You got me, Chest! Sick burn.

Curious though, why you still posting here if you're on Phinny?

Because the DBG forums are lame.

Should i never post in any forum that I'm not directly associated with?

[dallow2345]

so im going to guess all the bards are busy on cr's and thats why this too became a BDA thread?

[bdastomper58]

Should i never post in any forum that I'm not directly associated with?

yes

[Raev]

extreme rustle

Given those things you've quoted, do you think a cap of 25 or 145 is more accurate?

[pathius41]

Because the DBG forums are lame.

Should i never post in any forum that I'm not directly associated with?

yes

[t3kn34k]

Phinny is Dead
But BDA went to Phinny!!
















































































































































http://i.imgur.com/6TBENn1.jpg

I have a Bard and a Wizard and im just salty. Fuck you all, and have a nice day. :)

[Sarl]

What about the Translocate and Gate to Velious destination for Wizard?!!! you nerf us to the ground and we get nothing in return ....

I am salty too & wonder how i am gonna make money now .. you think they ll accept me at C/E in Seb now?

[Signal]

Bet this makes the races for CT way more interesting.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

Thread was off to a slow start - no doubt about that.

Lets hope the next 50 pages get rolling.

That being said RNF has lost a lot of popular posting personalities that could make it interesting. When all you have is Chest and Detoxx taking jabs at each other it says a lot about the general lack posting talent currently on the p99 forums.

http://i.imgur.com/f1uWTKf.jpg

[Pindrought]

It sucks. Seems like they nerfed bards to cut down on the power leveling after all the older players have multiple 60s. It just hurts newer players. Guess now it's time to take a break until green is released.

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Perfect time to join Red today.

[Spyder73]

1:24 Ye daughters of Israel, weep over Saul, who clothed you in scarlet, with other delights, who put on ornaments of gold upon your apparel. 1:25 How are the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! O Jonathan, thou wast slain in thine high places.1:26 I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; You have been very pleasant to me. Your love to me was more wonderful than the love of women. 1:27 How have the mighty fallen, And the weapons of war perished!

RIP Chardok, your tyrannical rule will forever shape Norrath

[indiscriminate_hater]

This actually doesn't hurt high 50s bards that much since it's hard to find many more dark blues than that while kiting. The northwest quadrant of burning woods will cover this and will drastically reduce pull times

[Pindrought]

This actually doesn't hurt high 50s bards that much since it's hard to find many more dark blues than that while kiting. The northwest quadrant of burning woods will cover this and will drastically reduce pull times

Like I had said before it only really hurts new players.

[xKoopa]

Like I had said before it only really hurts new players.

Really it helps new players by encouraging grouping. Whereas before anyone with alot of plat was just pushin 40-60 with aoe, now they have to group and grind with other ppl

I doubt any new players are hittin lvl 40 with 100k to throw at chardok

[Rhambuk]

Really it helps new players by encouraging grouping. Whereas before anyone with alot of plat was just pushin 40-60 with aoe, now they have to group and grind with other ppl

I doubt any new players are hittin lvl 40 with 100k to throw at chardok

yeah...this doesnt really hurt anyone just makes it better for newer players.

shouldve been done long ago

[Raev]

All this whining is so classic

[Freakish]

I'm organizing a wizard sit in. We gather at chardok ent and send verant a message that we will not take this abuse. Monks are power leveling better than we can in all this velious gear. It's just not fair.

[Redex]

Forgive my stupidity What "Damage" was done because of Kiting 100's of mobs with the Bards?

[Daldaen]

I do feel bad for wizards though.

They're an absolutely awful grouping class.
Soloing they're only good for Quadding and because Kunark and Velious design was poor nearly every 51+ mob summons so they are relegated to quadding mid-40s mobs for EXP, most of which green out in the 57-59 range.

They practically lived for AOE groups on Live in Sebilis, the Grey, Acrylia Caverns and Fungus Grove. Until PoP fixed EQ's design and offered 51+ mobs of worth you could kite.

On P99 now wizards will basically have to quad Raptors in TD to 60 or be a leach in some Sebilis or HS group where they provide no real benefit to the group.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

Because we all know new players have the plat to spend 2k per pull.

[Cecily]

Those poor, poor incredibly rich new players :(

[Pindrought]

Really it helps new players by encouraging grouping. Whereas before anyone with alot of plat was just pushin 40-60 with aoe, now they have to group and grind with other ppl

I doubt any new players are hittin lvl 40 with 100k to throw at chardok

Wasn't necessarily referring to Chardok when I said it hurt new players. Moreso, the AE nerf in general.

It still doesn't encourage grouping. Sensible bards wont group when it is still much better xp to just AE down mobs instead of grouping. It just hurts new players since they are capped in their total # of AE targets.

[Lojik]

I do feel bad for wizards though.

They're an absolutely awful grouping class.
Soloing they're only good for Quadding and because Kunark and Velious design was poor nearly every 51+ mob summons so they are relegated to quadding mid-40s mobs for EXP, most of which green out in the 57-59 range.

They practically lived for AOE groups on Live in Sebilis, the Grey, Acrylia Caverns and Fungus Grove. Until PoP fixed EQ's design and offered 51+ mobs of worth you could kite.

On P99 now wizards will basically have to quad Raptors in TD to 60 or be a leach in some Sebilis or HS group where they provide no real benefit to the group.

/shrug...they can be decent CC in KC and sebilis if they know how to root park mobs out of LoS. Also soloing to about 55 by quadding isn't so bad (they'll get better xp than groups for the most part.) There are some decent quadding spots in velious too for 55+, it's a slow grind for everyone outside of chardok and soloing shm/nec/mnk/enc/dru or power duos.

[EQBallzz]

I do feel bad for wizards though.

They're an absolutely awful grouping class.
Soloing they're only good for Quadding and because Kunark and Velious design was poor nearly every 51+ mob summons so they are relegated to quadding mid-40s mobs for EXP, most of which green out in the 57-59 range.

They practically lived for AOE groups on Live in Sebilis, the Grey, Acrylia Caverns and Fungus Grove. Until PoP fixed EQ's design and offered 51+ mobs of worth you could kite.

On P99 now wizards will basically have to quad Raptors in TD to 60 or be a leach in some Sebilis or HS group where they provide no real benefit to the group.

Are there really that many people who min/max group makeup to the degree that they will exclude a wizzy? For XP groups I usually go with the first number of people I can find that is remotely doable (and many times not even a full group). The more jacked the class makeup the more challenging and fun the group can be.

Efficient group makeup does not make things more fun. Sure, it's nice to have a well oiled XP machine with optimal everything if that's what you end up with but that's not nearly as satisfying or challenging as making an oddball group work despite it being sub-optimal (IMO).

I was in a group last night on my chanter with 3 SKs, a necro and a cleric. Worst group ever for my chanter because I couldn't mez anything with SK's and their damn dot taunts. I would have loved to swap out an SK for a wizzy in that group. ;)

[Ravager]

I do feel bad for wizards though.

They're an absolutely awful grouping class.
Soloing they're only good for Quadding and because Kunark and Velious design was poor nearly every 51+ mob summons so they are relegated to quadding mid-40s mobs for EXP, most of which green out in the 57-59 range.

They practically lived for AOE groups on Live in Sebilis, the Grey, Acrylia Caverns and Fungus Grove. Until PoP fixed EQ's design and offered 51+ mobs of worth you could kite.

On P99 now wizards will basically have to quad Raptors in TD to 60 or be a leach in some Sebilis or HS group where they provide no real benefit to the group.
I don't mind Wizards in a group if they don't try to be DPS wizards and blow through their mana bar nuking 1 mob. Having multiple stuns to stop a CH or Ice Comet is always handy, root parking and snare on fleeing mobs is useful if you have nobody else to do it or if you want to free up someone else's resources, and well timed nukes do make things more efficient. And, with a Flux staff, they can do the group a favor and take one for the team when the Enchanter's pet breaks charm.

[khanable]

Wizards are fucking great in warrior groups: dedicated rooter yissss

[Sarl]

I don't mind Wizards in a group if they don't try to be DPS wizards and blow through their mana bar nuking 1 mob. Having multiple stuns to stop a CH or Ice Comet is always handy, root parking and snare on fleeing mobs is useful if you have nobody else to do it or if you want to free up someone else's resources, and well timed nukes do make things more efficient. And, with a Flux staff, they can do the group a favor and take one for the team when the Enchanter's pet breaks charm.

You maybe dont mind but you ll take anything else before the poor wizy LFG. You'll probably keep the slot open for anything to show up ...

It's understable, how i see it is simple, the Serve is pretty old and everyone have acces to "great" gear pretty easly i would say and Wiz dont scale at all with items.

Wiz were fine when you were killing a mob every 2 mins, but everyone is so overstuff that they kill mobs every 30 sec ...

Anyway i am stilling looking for an invitation to C/E in seb Contact me on my wiz SarL i need to make some money. Thanks =)

[Chaboo_Cleric]

I like Everquest and I'm mad about 25

[Ravager]

You maybe dont mind but you ll take anything else before the poor wizy LFG. You'll probably keep the slot open for anything to show up ...

It's understable, how i see it is simple, the Serve is pretty old and everyone have acces to "great" gear pretty easly i would say and Wiz dont scale at all with items.

Wiz were fine when you were killing a mob every 2 mins, but everyone is so overstuff that they kill mobs every 30 sec ...

Anyway i am stilling looking for an invitation to C/E in seb Contact me on my wiz SarL i need to make some money. Thanks =)
If I'm in a group that's a member or two short that doesn't need a vital role like a cleric or a tank, I'd lobby for the wizard. No it's not going to be my first choice in some situations, but I'm not going to deny a wizard a spot if I've already got my bases covered. Besides, another perk to having a wizard around is being able to hand pick replacements as people log.

I've spent hours on my rogue and cleric not being able to get groups too, because people were short enchanters and shamans and heavy on DPS and heals, so it's not just a wizard problem. My rogue and cleric, however, do not come equipped with the tools to build a custom group for any dungeon in a short amount of time either, or the ability to solo 4 mobs at a time while they try to get something going, so I wouldn't cry for the wizards too much.

[skarlorn]

Wizqrds good in group cause the time they save you doing a Cr by casting evac outweighs their relative inefficiency

[feanan]

Wizqrds good in group cause the time they save you doing a Cr by casting evac outweighs their relative inefficiency

Nah, 100pp for 96% rez and I'll take the rogue. Thanks

[JurisDictum]

Forgive my stupidity What "Damage" was done because of Kiting 100's of mobs with the Bards?

Sometimes Bards will kite something like Dreadlands or the Overthere during prime time -- making it annoying for people to hunt in those zones. It really doesn't happen that often. But some will have you believe it is impossible to level because of bards. Chances are their bitchers that will always find something to bitch about.

No I'm not a bard -- and it's the only class in this game I never played (past level 10 or so).

[Erica]

This change made me think of the beginning of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5ei9nEWfyU

25 mobs instead of 25 grams. People leaving Chardok instead of their apartments.

[Nibblewitz]

The greatest Proletariat patch this server has seen.

[thufir]

It still doesn't encourage grouping. Sensible bards wont group when it is still much better xp to just AE down mobs instead of grouping. It just hurts new players since they are capped in their total # of AE targets.
no offense, but this just isn't true. if you compare the high end dungeons here vs. the high end dungeons on Live back in the day you'll notice that they're much less populated here. this is because most of the people who would sit through that grind with their second, third, fourth, etc. characters instead park in Chardok and spend 2k per aoe pull.

this won't happen any more. so, yes, it will encourage grouping. maybe the bards will still kite, but every other class will have more representatives LFG now.

[surron]

They should have just implemented the leash changes that Kunark brought, that would have stopped that retarded ass chardok pull which was never possible in EQ.

People say leash never existed yet it did on eqmac, and there is not a single patch note from vanilla to pop talking about implementing leash for previous content.

inb4 people say not classic with absolutely 0 proof

[Nibblewitz]

While leashing may have fixed Chardok, it would serve to trivialize most noob content.

[Daldaen]

They should have just implemented the leash changes that Kunark brought, that would have stopped that retarded ass chardok pull which was never possible in EQ.

People say leash never existed yet it did on eqmac, and there is not a single patch note from vanilla to pop talking about implementing leash for previous content.

inb4 people say not classic with absolutely 0 proof

The Chardok pull would actually be very doable even with those limitations put in. You would just have to be cognizant of where your train was at certain points of its pathing.

The lazy aggro / forget range changing on this server would absolutely blow people's minds and explode the raid scene, specifically in ToV.

However I suspect implementing it may be a rather large undertaking. Especially implementing it correctly, as I'm sure you're aware, those distances vary by zone and in some rare cases (Veeshan's Peak Dragons) individual mobs. Going through and testing each zone's distance on live is a time consuming endeavor, and then of course there is the matter of whether you think those live values have been modified in the past 16 years.

I seem to recall Torven compiling some good data on this somewhere, but you'd have to convince Nilbog, Rogean and Haynar it's correct and worthy of implementation.

[Daldaen]

While leashing may have fixed Chardok, it would serve to trivialize most noob content.

Noobs are all running around with SoW and JBoots in zones where gaining 200-600 range inbetween you and your target, are they?

No, it didn't trivialize noob content because people ran slow, mobs usually kept up with you, and people often fight in dungeons where outdistancing pursuers isn't feasible.

I seem to recall the mobs reaggroing if you returned back in range without the mob resetting occasionally too. Though that's just a recollection!

[Nibblewitz]

Priests can cast sow at level 9 and level 14, but from here on out I will defer to your end-game perspective on everything.

[nyclin]

what is this leash range people keep talking about? played on live up until GoD release and I never experienced a leashing mechanic. was it something that existed on eqmac?

[thufir]

people often fight in dungeons where outdistancing pursuers isn't feasible
fwiw, I find it easier to outdistance mobs in dungeons. they have dumb pathing rules that require them to walk in straight lines in corridors. we don't have those rules, so I can usually outrun mobs in dungeons without having to strafe. depends on the dungeon, of course.

[Freakish]

Noobs are all running around with SoW and JBoots in zones where gaining 200-600 range inbetween you and your target, are they?

No, it didn't trivialize noob content because people ran slow, mobs usually kept up with you, and people often fight in dungeons where outdistancing pursuers isn't feasible.

I seem to recall the mobs reaggroing if you returned back in range without the mob resetting occasionally too. Though that's just a recollection!

I remember coming back from WoW, getting a bad pull running to zoneline and hanging out there. I got my hp mana back up and decided to try it again. Had no idea why everything was instantly coming at me when I got close until I realized I had never zoned and you need to do that in EQ.

[Sirken]

http://i.imgur.com/qetxSYB.gif

[Jhaerik]

This is why they should wipe the server when they add a very important like this one.

You do realize a wipe would make 1/4-1/2 of the player base quit right? I personally would not be coming back as I have just started back and do NOT want to repeat the leveling process this quickly again. Many who play the Auction game would also quit just from losing all their crap and being forced to level again.

Also a server wipe just before the Uthgard DAoC freeshard server relaunch? Very dumb idea.

[rictus204]

ha-ha. silly chardok people

[TacoSmasher]

wtf i hate p99 now

[Jhaerik]

wtf i hate p99 now

Personally I wish they'd lower the cap to something more realistic.... Like 10.

[Jhaerik]

Gah no edit feature. QQ.

Anyway server could do without PL'ers and aoe farmers. Might be people to actually group with in some of the less used dungeons.

[Jhaerik]

Interested to see how the change plays out, but I'm not excited about it. Seems like putting it only in certain high level zones would be appropriate - now I can't aoe Warrens to get my paineel key faction?

Don't really get how you're trying to spin this as an enjoying the nerd rage thang considering it adversely affects people who play the game the normal way, and represents the staff breaking from classic because they couldn't handle enforcing the PNP...

Seems like the terrorists won. can u explain how are u smug about that?

I guess it depends on what you call "normal." AoE'ing 26-100 mobs is by the classic definition of EQ certainly not normal. 28k-56k connections and the video hardware of the day could NOT handle that. This is a classic server, not a progression live wannabe. If it ain't classic... we'll make it so.

[RedXIII]

Huuuge nerf to wizards. Cant belive nilbog finally crumbled into this silly pressure about no AE'ing zones... this is a classic feature. i live in Brazil and i was able to AE sebilis without desync issues on a 56k dial up modem. The #25mobs id just waaay too low. I agree that the 140 mobs in chardok isnt classic but 25 isnt either.

I recall easy 60mobs been AE'd down in sebilis. /shrugs. Sad to see this changed even thou doesnt affect me at all since i am already 60 on everything i wanted.

[Nihilist_santa]

Man sucks for bards. Bards are one of the only remaining reasons to play p99. On the TLEs on live they still have bards messed up where AOE only hits mobs that are standing still even during "vanilla".

[Triiz]

Given those things you've quoted, do you think a cap of 25 or 145 is more accurate?

Again, I think Chardok on p99 was total bullshit.

I certainly didn't post the links to defend Chardok, I didn't think AOEing large numbers of mobs was classic either but what do ya know 2 minutes on Google says it is.

One of those threads, from May 2001, the author says in a group with only 1 person who had ever even attempted AOE before was able to knock out 25 mobs in a pull. It stands to reason if they were doing up to 25 on a very first attempt they were doing more on a second attempt as that's just how EQ was and is.

As quoted in the earlier post they also say they were doing up to 40 mobs. Fear of wiping and inexperience is cited far more frequently as the reason for not pulling more mobs than lag.

Just pointing out it's inaccurate to say "More than 25 mobs on live was impossible due to technology" Was 100 possible? I doubt it, but the proof is there 40 was possible. If someone cares to look it up (not going to bother) I would bet there is a thread out there boasting about more than 40 mob pulls.

tl;dr Chardok sucks, more than 25 mobs were being pulled and AOE'd in early 2001.

[skarlorn]

sorry to DOX u Big J but i gotta Leak this Recently Found Pic of you..

http://i.imgur.com/4uSasnH.jpg

[thufir]

Interested to see how the change plays out, but I'm not excited about it. Seems like putting it only in certain high level zones would be appropriate - now I can't aoe Warrens to get my paineel key faction?

Don't really get how you're trying to spin this as an enjoying the nerd rage thang considering it adversely affects people who play the game the normal way, and represents the staff breaking from classic because they couldn't handle enforcing the PNP...

Seems like the terrorists won. can u explain how are u smug about that?

he doesn't have to spin. nearly all of us are enjoying the nerd rage. nobody thinks a few paid volunteers should be on call to enforce pnp 24/7.

and if you're not one of the people enjoying it, well, it's your nerd rage, do what you like.

[Tuurin]

I'm organizing a wizard sit in. We gather at chardok ent and send verant a message that we will not take this abuse. Monks are power leveling better than we can in all this velious gear. It's just not fair.

Yeah, FU Verant!

[Jhaerik]

I was aoeing zones in velious. I aoed Warrens for faction back then. I don't think it's that far fetched considering I did it -- it lagged me badly enough that I couldnt have functioned against dangerous mobs tho, thus my recommendation to limit max target depending on zone.

I now cannot do things I could do in velious, so how is that more classic?

Any proof? Like a screenshot?

[Jhaerik]

And honestly I think between the damage to the economy, the reduction of people grouping, and basically making entire zone unusable by the majority of the player base it's a wonderful change. I'd gladly anger the 5% for the happiness of the 95%.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

http://i.imgur.com/qetxSYB.gif

[ZiggyTheMuss]

i live in Brazil and i was able to AE sebilis without desync issues on a 56k dial up modem.

Bulllllllshit!



I was aoeing zones in velious. I aoed Warrens for faction back then. I don't think it's that far fetched considering I did it -- it lagged me badly enough that I couldnt have functioned against dangerous mobs tho, thus my recommendation to limit max target depending on zone.


And now you have to do it with just 25 mobs. Get over it.

It is a glorious day!

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Admittedly generous of me to do for someone so mad at the world that he would call the recently deceased a piece of shit for his elfsploits but I digress.

Wait, what? Who died?

[skarlorn]

Look up any screens of the bixie event in EC tunnel if you don't think aoeing 100 mobs at a time was a thing the game supported in 2001 genius

Hello friend,

Thank you for your input. I'm sorry to say it, but ya bein a morong. This is Project 1999, not Project 2001. This misstep is surely clerical on the part of your accountant I am sure.

It is my wildest fantasy that you are feeling good

[Psionide]

Cant AE on a wizard? One of the class's defining and very few roles?

[bdastomper58]

Cant AE on a wizard? One of the class's defining and very few roles?

can still AE just can't pay rent by doing so anymore

my good chum

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Cant AE on a wizard? One of the class's defining and very few roles?

When does a wizard really need to AE more than 4 mobs at a time unless they are causing a zone disruption? I'm not really familiar with the class so I legitimately am curious.

[Zemus]

Everyone in chardok expected the aoe groups to die eventually either with the chardok 2.0 revamp or changes to agro with invulnerability (da/db).

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010627.html

This artificial cap on the number of mobs affected by ae spells is sloppy as shit. It affects various other encounters on the server like CT/tunare. It is also a significant nerf to wizards/mages. Whatever, at least it opens up another xp zone to low 50's other than KC.

[Jhaerik]

Give me a single example of a non aoe class being able to put out even close to as much damage as a wizard aoe'ing 25 mobs. Give me an example of anything but a bard soloing 25 xp giving mobs at once.

A GOOD server is one that fixes things that need fixed. If you want to deal will the "it wasn't that way at x time period" crowd please go spend a week on Uthgard(daoc freeshard). All of the horrible balance issues at their target patch level basically ruin the game. When 80% of the payer base threaten to leave the only dev answer is "it wasn't 1.65."

Custom changes are needed when something is negatively effecting a majority of the player base. TBH I'd like to be a stronger punishment system in effect for people that constantly train mobs. I'd be willing to bet 9/10 of my deaths have come from some soloing nut job Bard or Iksar monk.

[Jhaerik]

"I'd like to see" rather.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

check it (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1778055&highlight=piece)

aftermath (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181472&highlight=dayse)

I thought that is who you meant. I played on red for a short period after launch and I interacted with Dayse somewhat often. I didn't stick around long, he seemed chill enough though. But after reading the police report he does sound like a piece of shit to be honest. Dying would have just made him a dead piece of shit.

To kill yourself because you are a virgin, girls don't talk to him etc. is an insult to people all over the world who have had more serious struggles and adversity. Fucked up thing to do to your family. He had his whole life ahead of him and it is truly sad that he gave up that easily. That being said I didn't know him well enough to say if he was a piece of shit or not.

[skarlorn]

hhhhAhhhhh... cruise... True Tom :)

[ZiggyTheMuss]

thx 4 share

Oh you disagree? You think that if someone is a piece of shit in life that everyone needs to pretend otherwise once they expire?

[elwing]

Yesterday I was surprised to see some wildlife in OT, never seen it before...

[fuark]

bards and chardok were AIDS and i havent seen anyone arguing that

the question is whether i should be disallowed from earthquaking blackburrow, a very classic pastime for faction farmers like me, because of that fact

Lol yeah actually this is the only reason I cared about this nerf. I also like to earthquake places like that for faction during dead hours on my druid for faction farming. Hierophant's Crook bye 8(...

[Jhaerik]

Lol yeah actually this is the only reason I cared about this nerf. I also like to earthquake places like that for faction during dead hours on my druid for faction farming. Hierophant's Crook bye 8(...

You do realize you can still do it 10x(or more) faster than classes without AoE right? How is this game-breaking? Just kill'em 25 at a time.. christ. Is that really too much effort? Casting the aoe a few extra times to depopulate an entire zone?

[Sodors Finest Poster]

Can someone record the next Cazic Thule spawn?

Cant wait to see how the trash mobs are pulled.

[Thulack]

Really it helps new players by encouraging grouping. Whereas before anyone with alot of plat was just pushin 40-60 with aoe, now they have to group and grind with other ppl

I doubt any new players are hittin lvl 40 with 100k to throw at chardok

Because learning how to play a toon in Everquest is difficult? Who cares if it takes someone 1 month to get 60 or 60 months. Not like this game is very challenging or hard to learn the mechanics.

[Ravager]

Because learning how to play a toon in Everquest is difficult? Who cares if it takes someone 1 month to get 60 or 60 months. Not like this game is very challenging or hard to learn the mechanics.
The people getting wiped and losing king camp because of a newly minted chardok 60 who doesn't know what they're doing probably care.

[Ravager]

You do realize you can still do it 10x(or more) faster than classes without AoE right? How is this game-breaking? Just kill'em 25 at a time.. christ. Is that really too much effort? Casting the aoe a few extra times to depopulate an entire zone?
Or just bring a group there when you're leveling if the faction matters to you so much. A person might even have fun playing the game without godmode.

[Thulack]

The people getting wiped and losing king camp because of a newly minted chardok 60 who doesn't know what they're doing probably care.

I didnt know brand new players were paying for Chardok AE's to level.....

[Ravager]

I didnt know brand new players were paying for Chardok AE's to level.....
A person who played an enchanter as a main for 60 levels and then PLs his monk to get to 60 from 45 probably won't be the sharpest monk.

[clacbec]

Planing to build some micro AoE group in seb off peak time in seb on my ench, by Discos spot, Send Fantasy a tell if interested.

[Ravager]

Bring a group with my level 60 to blackburrow?
Before you get to 60 in the first place, but you already knew what I meant, you're just being purposely dense.

[Ravager]

why would i want to aoe down blackburrow at high level for faction before i got high level?
You are a clever fellow. I cannot maintain this intellectual joust match with you and I concede.

[indiscriminate_hater]

shut up you idiots, let this thread RIPIP

[wwoneo]

Nilbog I'm disappointed in you. You were the one man keeping classic mechanics together on this server and you succumbed to the devil. RIP classic. Incoming more fixes to cater to the majority. I wonder what will be next? Perhaps they'll change soulfire to paladin only clicky, or nerf item recharging because it creates problems. RIP P99.

[wwoneo]

Welcome to Phinny 2.0

[Ravager]

Think about it real deep now my friend - you ever max your faction before you got out of crushbone? You ever max your faction in Qeynos AND Faydwer before getting out of crushbone?
Yes.

[Ravager]

Further, Crushbone and Blackburrow are not the only places in the game that offer faction hits.

[bdastomper58]

Perhaps they'll change soulfire to paladin only clicky, or nerf item recharging because it creates problems. RIP P99.

nilbog these are good ideas do these next please

[Detoxx]

Nilbog I'm disappointed in you. You were the one man keeping classic mechanics together on this server and you succumbed to the devil. RIP classic. Incoming more fixes to cater to the majority. I wonder what will be next? Perhaps they'll change soulfire to paladin only clicky, or nerf item recharging because it creates problems. RIP P99.

Soulfires inadvertently broken (can't do combines).






































Or was it?

[Ravager]

Welcome to Phinny 2.0
The devs nerf things that trivialize the game (which subsequently makes it take more work to do the same things), yet all the people raging about the nerf chide people playing Phinny because they're not earning their pixels.

So which is it? Do you want to earn your pixels or do you want easy mode?

[nilbog]

Nilbog I'm disappointed in you. You were the one man keeping classic mechanics together on this server and you succumbed to the devil. RIP classic. Incoming more fixes to cater to the majority. I wonder what will be next? Perhaps they'll change soulfire to paladin only clicky, or nerf item recharging because it creates problems. RIP P99.

One thing does not necessarily mean the other. The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic. I'm not referring to simply December 3, 2001 mechanics (Luclin release 12/4/01), but a sense of how it generally functioned throughout classic times. I was in AE groups in Sebilis. I was part of fearplane breaks using AEs, but it was nothing like what was being done on p99. fearplane for example.. the majority of the zone was not rounded up and AEed down like it was here. It was done in small bursts (especially amygdalans). On erollisi marr, we called those the conga lines. There were certainly technological limitations of aggroing a certain amount of npcs around clients. I'm not referring to merely clientside (what you see) limitations either; the soe server->client was also a factor. We chose 25 targets as a preliminary number to address the situation. As stated in the patch notes, "We will continue to evaluate this to determine if any further changes are needed."

I will take personal responsibility and flames for this change if necessary, because what existed was in no way reminiscent of classic behavior. It will continue to be evaluated.

[Nune]

One thing does not necessarily mean the other. The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic. I'm not referring to simply December 3, 2001 mechanics (Luclin release 12/4/01), but a sense of how it generally functioned throughout classic times. I was in AE groups in Sebilis. I was part of fearplane breaks using AEs, but it was nothing like what was being done on p99. fearplane for example.. the majority of the zone was not rounded up and AEed down like it was here. It was done in small bursts (especially amygdalans). On erollisi marr, we called those the conga lines. There were certainly technological limitations of aggroing a certain amount of npcs around clients. I'm not referring to merely clientside (what you see) limitations either; the soe server->client was also a factor. We chose 25 targets as a preliminary number to address the situation. As stated in the patch notes, "We will continue to evaluate this to determine if any further changes are needed."

I will take personal responsibility and flames for this change if necessary, because what existed was in no way reminiscent of classic behavior. It will continue to be evaluated.

mother of God people AoE'd Seb back on live? Seb was a dirty death trap of tears and trains on Tallon Zek on live

[Culkasi]

One thing does not necessarily mean the other. The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic. I'm not referring to simply December 3, 2001 mechanics (Luclin release 12/4/01), but a sense of how it generally functioned throughout classic times. I was in AE groups in Sebilis. I was part of fearplane breaks using AEs, but it was nothing like what was being done on p99. fearplane for example.. the majority of the zone was not rounded up and AEed down like it was here. It was done in small bursts (especially amygdalans). On erollisi marr, we called those the conga lines. There were certainly technological limitations of aggroing a certain amount of npcs around clients. I'm not referring to merely clientside (what you see) limitations either; the soe server->client was also a factor. We chose 25 targets as a preliminary number to address the situation. As stated in the patch notes, "We will continue to evaluate this to determine if any further changes are needed."

I support this change - A+

I will take personal responsibility and flames for this change if necessary, because what existed was in no way reminiscent of classic behavior. It will continue to be evaluated.

[Culkasi]

What I meant to do above was quote Nilbog and say I fully supported the change, but my forumquest skills are not good.

Anyway, I fully suppor the change, good work once again.

[thufir]

:cool:

I get taking pleasure in the tears of chardok nerds and bards who make the game toxic as hell, don't get me wrong. I'll give Sirken benefit of the doubt and assume his gif was aimed that way and not that he is that embittered with everyone that likes P99. Admittedly generous of me to do for someone so mad at the world that he would call the recently deceased a piece of shit for his elfsploits but I digress.

As a classic EQ enthusiast, your only reason to "enjoy" the classic EQ project being watered down because of an artificial labor shortage (created by the need to tightly compartmentalize information; obviously there is no shortage of volunteer labor) is a deep seated misanthropic bitterness and hatred of trolls on the boards and ingame. It says something really depressing about you that you would cheer on the devaluing of something you love only because it makes your perceived enemies feel sad. The only way for you to arrive here is to be very mad indeed, bro. And all day every day. :(

Mutually assured destruction only feels like a net gain to people who don't value themselves very much. I hope you can get out of this rut buddy.

given that this post was written by someone whose sig says "im like peroxide cuz i stay bubblin in the cut" this is pretty awesome. do your multiple personalities fight often? if so who wins? or is this just an attempt at your masterclass trolling cert?

this was a change that only really affects the bards and chardok aoe. with anyone else this won't make a real difference and whingeing about it for even 0.5 seconds is way too long. and you, sir, have composed multiple posts with that exact topic on this thread that far exceed that post time.

One thing does not necessarily mean the other. The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic. I'm not referring to simply December 3, 2001 mechanics (Luclin release 12/4/01), but a sense of how it generally functioned throughout classic times. I was in AE groups in Sebilis. I was part of fearplane breaks using AEs, but it was nothing like what was being done on p99. fearplane for example.. the majority of the zone was not rounded up and AEed down like it was here. It was done in small bursts (especially amygdalans). On erollisi marr, we called those the conga lines. There were certainly technological limitations of aggroing a certain amount of npcs around clients. I'm not referring to merely clientside (what you see) limitations either; the soe server->client was also a factor. We chose 25 targets as a preliminary number to address the situation. As stated in the patch notes, "We will continue to evaluate this to determine if any further changes are needed."

I will take personal responsibility and flames for this change if necessary, because what existed was in no way reminiscent of classic behavior. It will continue to be evaluated.

exactly this, 100%. whether or not you *could* do chardok aoe back during this era is 100% irrelevant. the fact is that if it was done, it was done extremely rarely. you didn't have a fucking cartel set up in chardok charging people for proxy pulls. that is quite possibly the most unclassic shit ever done and kudos to any change that stops it.

[khysanth]

The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic.

Then why not change things like SoulFire, item recharges, slow hammers, rooted raid mobs etc. to emulate a sense of how EverQuest worked in classic?

[thufir]

Then why not change things like SoulFire, item recharges, slow hammers, rooted raid mobs etc. to emulate a sense of how EverQuest worked in classic?

"why not make 100 more changes because you made 1 change?"

[wwoneo]

One thing does not necessarily mean the other. The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic. I'm not referring to simply December 3, 2001 mechanics (Luclin release 12/4/01), but a sense of how it generally functioned throughout classic times. I was in AE groups in Sebilis. I was part of fearplane breaks using AEs, but it was nothing like what was being done on p99. fearplane for example.. the majority of the zone was not rounded up and AEed down like it was here. It was done in small bursts (especially amygdalans). On erollisi marr, we called those the conga lines. There were certainly technological limitations of aggroing a certain amount of npcs around clients. I'm not referring to merely clientside (what you see) limitations either; the soe server->client was also a factor. We chose 25 targets as a preliminary number to address the situation. As stated in the patch notes, "We will continue to evaluate this to determine if any further changes are needed."

I will take personal responsibility and flames for this change if necessary, because what existed was in no way reminiscent of classic behavior. It will continue to be evaluated.

First, I would like to say that I appreciate the fact you responded to my post. It demonstrates that you genuinely care about the community.

However, there are many inconsistencies in the game that have been around for years that do not parallel your statements such as puppet string recharging, guilds massing soulfires to trivialize content, etc... in addition, you say that you were in Seb AE groups. I was as well and I can confirm that there were 100+ (definitely more than 25+) mob pulls in Seb. The only difference was that there were no AE groups selling proxy spots, or at least not on my server.

Also, you have indirectly nerfed the AEing of more trivial content. I guarantee on live there were many players that would go to zones such as Crushbone and Blackburrow in order to collect belts, faction and other such things.

There are many other aspects of this AE nerf that have not even been realized that have moved away from the Classic feel of Everquest.

I feel this is a step in the wrong direction for project 1999, but I still thank you for your commitment and dedication to the game.

[wwoneo]

"why not make 100 more changes because you made 1 change?"

I think you should brush up on your deductive reasoning if you don't understand the inconsistencies with statements to which you are referring.

There were more problems that were already in the game prior to Chardok AE that were never resolved. The fact that the staff decided to make this change means they are willing to hand pick the ones that they don't personally like due to the cries of the majority. That sounds a lot like Gamebreak servers to me.

Not enough mobs? Let's add instances.
Expansions not coming out fast enough? Let's add voting.

[thufir]

I think you should brush up on your deductive reasoning if you don't understand the inconsistencies with statements to which you are referring.

There were more problems that were already in the game prior to Chardok AE that were never resolved. The fact that the staff decided to make this change means they are willing to hand pick the ones that they don't personally like due to the cries of the majority. That sounds a lot like Gamebreak servers to me.

Not enough mobs? Let's add instances.
Expansions not coming out fast enough? Let's add voting.

yeah, slippery slope arguments have never resonated with me

appeals to shit like "deductive reasoning" and "logic" are fantastic, used to believe very strongly in it, then read a bunch of books about persuasion which sadly discount the value of such things when convincing people of things (including the opinions you hold, as a human you are not an exception to these basic human mechanics)

they made 1 change. wait for the other ones, if there are any, before you cry about things that happen in the future. and if you think this one is bad, we'll just have to agree to disagree about it, and that's that.

[wwoneo]

yeah, slippery slope arguments have never resonated with me

appeals to shit like "deductive reasoning" and "logic" are fantastic, used to believe very strongly in it, then read a bunch of books about persuasion which sadly discount the value of such things when convincing people of things (including the opinions you hold, as a human you are not an exception to these basic human mechanics)

they made 1 change. wait for the other ones, if there are any, before you cry about things that happen in the future. and if you think this one is bad, we'll just have to agree to disagree about it, and that's that.

I don't even think you bother to try and read or understand an entire post before you respond. So, I won't bother engaging any further.

[khanable]

One thing does not necessarily mean the other. The AE change was supported by the entire staff to emulate a sense of how AE groups worked in classic. I'm not referring to simply December 3, 2001 mechanics (Luclin release 12/4/01), but a sense of how it generally functioned throughout classic times. I was in AE groups in Sebilis. I was part of fearplane breaks using AEs, but it was nothing like what was being done on p99. fearplane for example.. the majority of the zone was not rounded up and AEed down like it was here. It was done in small bursts (especially amygdalans). On erollisi marr, we called those the conga lines. There were certainly technological limitations of aggroing a certain amount of npcs around clients. I'm not referring to merely clientside (what you see) limitations either; the soe server->client was also a factor. We chose 25 targets as a preliminary number to address the situation. As stated in the patch notes, "We will continue to evaluate this to determine if any further changes are needed."

I will take personal responsibility and flames for this change if necessary, because what existed was in no way reminiscent of classic behavior. It will continue to be evaluated.

It's a much needed and fantastic change. Thanks Nilbog.

[thufir]

I don't even think you bother to try and read or understand an entire post before you respond. So, I won't bother engaging any further.
please don't. you're a guy who freaked out and told nilbog he has failed his quest because he nerfed aoe mechanics. you're worried that this use of value judgments will mean that many other things that are "classic" will now become not-classic. and when confronted on it you claim that people aren't reading your shit.

people who type shit like "you just aren't bothering to read me" are the ones making the communication errors, not the ones reading their shit. your argument is easily encapsulated in a short paragraph. it isn't difficult to understand, and it's a little something that you have to resort to "you don't understand!!1!" to address the counters.

[wwoneo]

yeah, slippery slope arguments have never resonated with me

appeals to shit like "deductive reasoning" and "logic" are fantastic, used to believe very strongly in it, then read a bunch of books about persuasion which sadly discount the value of such things when convincing people of things (including the opinions you hold, as a human you are not an exception to these basic human mechanics)

they made 1 change. wait for the other ones, if there are any, before you cry about things that happen in the future. and if you think this one is bad, we'll just have to agree to disagree about it, and that's that.

Also, this isn't the first time the staff has made changes to the server that weren't classic with the intention of trying to make things better.

[wwoneo]

please don't. you're a guy who freaked out and told nilbog he has failed his quest because he nerfed aoe mechanics. you're worried that this use of value judgments will mean that many other things that are "classic" will now become not-classic. and when confronted on it you claim that people aren't reading your shit.

people who type shit like "you just aren't bothering to read me" are the ones making the communication errors, not the ones reading their shit. your argument is easily encapsulated in a short paragraph. it isn't difficult to understand, and it's a little something that you have to resort to "you don't understand!!1!" to address the counters.

Okay fair enough you little shit. I'll break it down for you since you need to be educated.

First off, it isn't only about future changes. It is also about the staff hand picking changes they want to incorporate because whiny brats like you don't like the way things are.

I don't like the idea of the server changing in any manner simply to appease the majority. It ruins the integrity of the project. If I wanted a server like that I would just go play on Daybreak servers.

Also, if you're just going to dismiss the slippery slope argument, then what's the fucking point of ever logically discussing anything ever?

FYI this isn't the first time that the staff has implemented changes in the game away from classic mechanics in attempts to make the server better.

[thufir]

Okay fair enough you little shit. I'll break it down for you since you need to be educated.

First off, it isn't only about future changes. It is also about the staff hand picking changes they want to incorporate because whiny brats like you don't like the way things are.

I don't like the idea of the server changing in any manner simply to appease the majority. It ruins the integrity of the project. If I wanted a server like that I would just go play on Daybreak servers.

Also, if you're just going to dismiss the slippery slope argument, then what's the fucking point of ever logically discussing anything ever?

FYI this isn't the first time that the staff has implemented changes in the game away from classic mechanics in attempts to make the server better.

no, it's about how chardok aoe ruined the server and this kills chardok aoe.

I don't give two fucks what you don't like. sometimes doing what's best for 99% of the people who play a game is in fact the best thing to do, even if it conflicts with other goals. your stupid stands on principle are exactly that.

also, you can dismiss the slippery slope argument because it's not logical. it's a classic fallacy in fact. google will help you out there.

I preferred "agree to disagree" but if you want to go out in flames that's fine with me too. it's RnF after all.

[wwoneo]

yeah, slippery slope arguments have never resonated with me

appeals to shit like "deductive reasoning" and "logic" are fantastic, used to believe very strongly in it, then read a bunch of books about persuasion

I doubt you read these books properly considering how well you read forum posts.

[khanable]

because whiny brats like you

you're the only one here with a sandy vagina pal

still have yet to see any proof of a 100+ ae during the classic time period

[wwoneo]

no, it's about how chardok aoe ruined the server and this kills chardok aoe.

I don't give two fucks what you don't like. sometimes doing what's best for 99% of the people who play a game is in fact the best thing to do, even if it conflicts with other goals. your stupid stands on principle are exactly that.

also, you can dismiss the slippery slope argument because it's not logical. it's a classic fallacy in fact. google will help you out there.

I preferred "agree to disagree" but if you want to go out in flames that's fine with me too. it's RnF after all.

It's not a fallacy when the event had already occurred. I have already said that this is not the first time the staff has hand picked a change to make that was a move away from classic.

[thufir]

I doubt you read these books properly considering how well you read forum posts.

yes, now you're getting into it, let the ad hominem flow through you

[thufir]

It's not a fallacy when the event had already occurred. I have already said that this is not the first time the staff has hand picked a change to make that was a move away from classic.

probably won't be the last then. time for you to leave, sounds like. just around the corner is a majority rules universe that is exactly like Daybreak. right? unless your heroic efforts put a stop to it, natch.

[wwoneo]

you're the only one here with a sandy vagina pal

still have yet to see any proof of a 100+ ae during the classic time period

Get bent. If you don't think there were AE pulls in Seb greater than 25 mobs, then I highly doubt you even played the game above level 30.

[wwoneo]

probably won't be the last then. time for you to leave, sounds like. just around the corner is a majority rules universe that is exactly like Daybreak. right? unless your heroic efforts put a stop to it, natch.

Nice job conceding the argument in a clever way by telling me to leave. I'm sure no one else noticed your incompetence, we'll done.

[khanable]

Get bent. If you don't think there were AE pulls in Seb greater than 25 mobs, then I highly doubt you even played the game above level 30.

"prove the thing you are arguing for"

"if you don't believe me you're an idiot"

ok

[thufir]

Nice job conceding the argument in a clever way by telling me to leave. I'm sure no one else noticed your incompetence, we'll done.

absolutely. now that we've accepted it's hopeless I'm sure you'll be giving up. the slope is too slippery, right?

or *is* it a case that your heroic efforts can stop the slippery slope? I'm just wondering if you're here to snivel and pule or if you're here to do a man's job.

[wwoneo]

"prove the thing you are arguing for"

"if you don't believe me you're an idiot"

ok

Yes because I'm going to waste my time searching Google for proof of something that is obvious when you're not even the person I'm trying to convince. If Nilbog asks for proof, then I'll provide it.

[Lojik]

If Nilbog asks for proof, then I'll provide it.

In the meantime just keep whining

[khanable]

In the meantime just keep whining

it's a winning strategy according to him

[JurisDictum]

Okay fair enough you little shit. I'll break it down for you since you need to be educated.

First off, it isn't only about future changes. It is also about the staff hand picking changes they want to incorporate because whiny brats like you don't like the way things are.

I don't like the idea of the server changing in any manner simply to appease the majority. It ruins the integrity of the project. If I wanted a server like that I would just go play on Daybreak servers.

Also, if you're just going to dismiss the slippery slope argument, then what's the fucking point of ever logically discussing anything ever?

FYI this isn't the first time that the staff has implemented changes in the game away from classic mechanics in attempts to make the server better.

The project is to -- as much as possible -- recreate Everquest as it exited in 1999. That is my understanding. Allowing mechanics to be exploited in a way that they were not in 1999, should be subject to change. The change in classic mechanics was done to bring the server behavior more in line with everquest in 1999.

Now not all classic behaviors are recreatable. There will be no more since of mystery and roleplaying is never going to be the same. So its pointless to try to recreate that.

But Chardok really shouldn't be trivializing content on such a vast scale. It is certainly possible to recreate how difficult it was to level in Everquest. And for the most part they have, except the bullshit Chardok problem. And if you are measuring the success of this project by how much it recreates Everquest as it exited in 1999, its an obvious fix.

Now if I was someone who RMTed Chardok. Maybe I wouldn't be saying any of this. Maybe I would come in here and post after post make my best arguments about how its "more classic" to let this continue. But I think most people would since I cared more about this specific change than server philosophy.

[Ravager]

I've played through a million Qeynos and Faydark-starting characters in my day and I have never once maxed even one of their respective factions in the course of levelling out of CB/BB. I guess you eat huge amounts of exp deaths.
Do it without turning in the belts and teeth sometime in a full group of players for every level you can exp in those zones, then tell me it can't be done.
That's my line, genius. It's mathematically impossible to max every starting city faction while levelling through their newbie zones without taking hundreds of exp deaths, and even if you were a bad enough player to make that possible, it would still be 1000 hours faster to exp in decent spots and grind the faction at 60.Cry me a river if you can't figure out how to do it.
Entire argument is pointless, I agree.

not classic and not necessary. If issues specific to Chardok and swarming were the only problems like Nilbog implies, ruining the classic experience in every zone was an exceedingly lazy and hamfisted way of mitigating those problems.
I don't think AE faction farming was as prominent in classic as it was here, whether it could have been done or not. My memories of higher levels trying to get faction hits in classic was to tag mobs from exp groups, not a level 60 AEing an entire dungeon.

[wwoneo]

i already got asked for photographic proof that it was possible on live to pull the entirety of the Warrens without the ceiling of my house caving in on my head ITT. They either didn't play live or they're arguing disingenuously.

still:



you guys are kinda talking past each other. There were definitely seb AE pulls north of 25 mobs and asking for prof of that is pretty silly, but 100? Feels kinda unlikely.

Well, 25 has been designated the bench mark. I contend there were without a doubt pulls far greater than 25 by Velious.

[Raev]

Yes because I'm going to waste my time searching Google for proof of something that is obvious when you're not even the person I'm trying to convince. If Nilbog asks for proof, then I'll provide it.

<channeling my inner Alarti>

Prove it. Post it in the bug forums if you want, but no one is taking you seriously until you do.

And yes, I'd like to see a few more changes to fix classic exploits. Making Soulfire Paladin-only like on Red, increasing item recharge costs by about 5x, and something to prevent these zone pulls of raid bosses would all be huge wins for classic feel IMO.

[Raev]

And when I say 'prove it' I mean 100+ pulls of Seb. I can easily believe 35-40, but that's nearly the numbers the staff picked.

[skarlorn]

http://i.imgur.com/qxYtzC1.gif


I for one back Wwoneowoew or whatever his name is. He is making really good points. Don't back down now buddy!

[Detoxx]

You don't like it? Call customer service, demand for a refund on that 15 bucks a month you pay...

Oh, wait.

It's their server. If he wants to hand pick, have at it. You don't like it? Go play the other EverQuest server that emulates classic as close as this one.

Oh, wait.

[skarlorn]

It's their server. If he wants to hand pick, have at it. You don't like it? Go play the other EverQuest server that emulates classic as close as this one.



so which server is best? i hear phinigel is great - also heard about TAKP ?

[khysanth]

[QUOTE=Detoxx;2355405]Go play the other EverQuest server that emulates classic as close as this one. /QUOTE]

/Detoxx zones into ToV and proceeds to fight as many dragons as possible at west exit

[ZiggyTheMuss]

I kind of agree with JPN that they should maybe adjust this on a zone by zone basis. Make 25 the max number of AEable targets in Chardok, Hate, Sebilis only. Make future adjustments to other zones if necessary. There shouldn't be a problem with AEing a bunch of green mobs in an empty black burrow.

[Nibblewitz]

I think they should make all the HS mobs harm touch for only 1 damage, like on Phinny.

[Detoxx]

[QUOTE=Detoxx;2355405]Go play the other EverQuest server that emulates classic as close as this one. /QUOTE]

/Detoxx zones into ToV and proceeds to fight as many dragons as possible at west exit

We kill at zone in. About as classic as it gets!

[Signal]

I don't get the problem. Add 3 wizards and 2 chanters and keep destroying Chardok.

[Signal]

With 25 mob clumps you dont need 3 chanters to lock it down. Just pull em in waves of 25 continuously. You are only going to have slightly more downtime. Just takes a few more people to do it.

[Lojik]

With 25 mob clumps you dont need 3 chanters to lock it down. Just pull em in waves of 25 continuously. You are only going to have slightly more downtime. Just takes a few more people to do it.

A little more work=big problem for many people on this server

[NegaStoat]

The new server coming down the line with these changes added will be splendid.
Also. Fuck bards. Fuck every bard swarming in LoIO, Overthere, Dreadlands, and Oasis of all the fucking places.
Getting them killed with having given a cleric a heads up that it was going down so they got to charge plat for the rez always felt good.

[Troubled]

still have yet to see any proof of a 100+ ae during the classic time period
Very well. Here's me waiting with my guild on Rallos Zek in 2000 on the day Kunark released, anticipating our 125+ mob pull, with the original UI:
http://i.imgur.com/niM0G3d.jpg
Here's another of some bard I don't know who obviously cropped the image from the original UI, so it will be smaller than 640x480:
http://i.imgur.com/w1Pb1u1.jpg

Suck on those apples!

[skarlorn]

Very well. Here's me waiting with my guild on Rallos Zek in 2000 on the day Kunark released, anticipating our 125+ mob pull, with the original UI:
http://i.imgur.com/niM0G3d.jpg
Here's another of some bard I don't know who obviously cropped the image from the original UI, so it will be smaller than 640x480:
http://i.imgur.com/w1Pb1u1.jpg

Suck on those apples!

ssssssmirkin but thass about it homie

[khanable]

Trouble pal are you doing the phinny thing too?

[Sarl]

Can someone explain me what is so bad about chardok AoE?


I make a Wiz without knowing about it and it served me well to get confortable on this new Adventure, it make some good items ( SoS / SBS ) Pretty cheap and was helping monk to get there epic piece pretty ez too.

What is so ugly about it?

[Borak]

Very well. Here's me waiting with my guild on Rallos Zek in 2000 on the day Kunark released, anticipating our 125+ mob pull, with the original UI:
http://i.imgur.com/niM0G3d.jpg

Suck on those apples!

LOL that's not even CLOSE to being the original UI (i.e. view in a small box with grey buttons all around). In addition, the first customizable UI came after the introduction of Velious (but before Luclin) and it was nowhere near as pretty as that UI. But I figured you knew that and were being snarky :D

[Troubled]

Trouble pal are you doing the phinny thing too?

No. I like it in concept though.

[Tollen]

How does this effect pulling in PoG, run ups in ToV, trains to move mobs, etc?

read the patch note. the spell will only hit 25 targets, just like your target AoE spell hits the first 4 and only those 4 until dead.

[Lojik]

Can someone explain me what is so bad about chardok AoE?


I make a Wiz without knowing about it and it served me well to get confortable on this new Adventure, it make some good items ( SoS / SBS ) Pretty cheap and was helping monk to get there epic piece pretty ez too.

What is so ugly about it?

The thing about classic eq is that there are very few raid targets, and chardok artificially increased the number of 60 toons on the server, making the end game miserable. Also, people speculate about rampant rmt at chardok, as I imagine it'd be hard for gms to track it.

[khysanth]

Lol speculation is not necessary

[thufir]

Can someone explain me what is so bad about chardok AoE?


I make a Wiz without knowing about it and it served me well to get confortable on this new Adventure, it make some good items ( SoS / SBS ) Pretty cheap and was helping monk to get there epic piece pretty ez too.

What is so ugly about it?

someone already mentioned that it artificially inflates the number of 60s, thus screwing the endgame, but it also has the effect of chilling high end dungeons. the grind is long and full of terrors. why bother with it when you can pay a few k to some team of casters and priests and skip it?

as a result, the high 50s dungeons are mostly underused. I remember seb on live during this era, place was just packed, all sorts of crazy camps taken. the bridge area was divided into "b1, b2, b3" because there were so many people in the zone. /who all seb was almost always "request cut short", even in velious. here, you can usually have your pick of camps, save one or two. same with velk's.

it's great if you want to skip whole chunks of the game. but it definitely detracts from the classic feel.

[Fountree]

I support this change, it will cut down on shortcuts, lazy and weak players and increase grouping/social interaction.

[Fountree]

It's just sad they didn't make the change sooner to prevent all the shady chardok shenanigans and fake 60s.

[Lobus]

I for one couldn't care less about bards or RMT Chardok groups (was offered $5 per pull a few weeks back by some lvl 1 bard in the EC tunnel /ignore)....

Personally this just makes me more excited about the prospect of a new server where all these problems never manifest themselves in the first place. Will I be sad that the time I put into my characters here until that happens would be "wasted"? Not at all...

Playing, progressing, and the experience thereof is the reward, not having a bunch of pixels that literally mean nothing... having found p99 only a few months ago I would happily reroll my enchanter and start over knowing the exploits, hacks, RMT, shortcuts and other things that mar the server today have been greatly curtailed.

Server Staff - you wanna see a bunch of neck-beards really rage at you? Force "retire" characters on the 1 yr anniversary of hitting level 52 and impose trade caps that scale up as you level essentially making everything you have, plat included, No Drop once you hit 52 :)

[khanable]

It's just sad they didn't make the change sooner to prevent all the shady chardok shenanigans and fake 60s.

Yeah. At least for subsequent servers it will be nice.

Honestly here it doesn't matter much.. damage has long since been done. But at least it generated some tears.:)

[Bohab]

Having run an Ench and a Wiz through AE with just the intension of leveling them... I could feel there was something strange going on. My assumption was always RMT. The same dirtbag players day in and day out doing it for no reason.

I say no reason because what exactly are you saving all that plat for? You've been selling proxies everyday for over a year and you still need plat? For what? This is ALL you do! You clearly don't have fun at it either because these people were miserable. And oh boy did they get upset when you fucked up their "lists"... or you lagged on your stuns or you were afk just a moment too long. You were fucking with their livelihood. Never mind all the terrible players it released onto the raid scene. Glad it's over... all you AE junkies can suck it.

[EQBallzz]

I kind of agree with JPN that they should maybe adjust this on a zone by zone basis. Make 25 the max number of AEable targets in Chardok, Hate, Sebilis only. Make future adjustments to other zones if necessary. There shouldn't be a problem with AEing a bunch of green mobs in an empty black burrow.

Or make the max a dynamic number tied to the number of players in the zone. Less than 10 people in zone? 100 max. Less than 20 people the max is 50. Less than 30 people the max is 25. Or something similar.

I do remember doing single group AE groups in Chardok on live but the number of mobs was probably never more than about 50. We also typically did this late at night when there wasn't other people in the zone so we didn't disrupt the zone or monopolize multiple camps.

There were others that sometimes did this as well but this was not a common activity. This was usually being done by people in raiding guilds with raid gear. Seeing as raiders were a tiny minority of the total amount of players and the number of raiders doing these groups was a minority of them..this was not widely done that I recall (not on my server at least).

All that being said I don't mind this change. The concept of a handful of players monopolizing a zone and selling "proxy" spots is really way beyond the spirit of the game. I think it could have been addressed in a better way to not be so broadly applied but even with the negative side effects I think it's a worthwhile change. Considering my monk is just hitting the level to be able to do Chardok I'm happy that I will have the opportunity to do normal XP groups there and get my own metal pipe for epic instead of being forced to pay for it.

[skarlorn]

God bless this. Less about the change to improve the chancre that is Blue and more about setting up a healthy environment for the next server,where this garbage won't ever happen

[derpcake]

this will help with server load a lot

grats on the savings

[Chaboo_Cleric]

I love Everquest and I prefer to eat blueberry muffins while in Freeport with my bros

[Tankdan]

>5.5 years of Kunark+Velious.
>Blames Chardok for mass amounts of level 60s

son...

[Ravager]

I love Everquest and I prefer to eat blueberry muffins while in Freeport with my bros
If you're not eating Lemon Poppyseed muffins, you are failing life.

[Khaleesi]

More and more successful normal Chardok xp groups rolling off the assembly line.... it's lovely.

Meanwhile I hear whispers that people have gone to Karnors to do some variation of AE pulling instead. Awesome, the worst xp method in the worst xp zone, amazing solution for everyone - even more reason to stay out of Karnors.

[Maciver]

I don't get the hardware, connection argument. My friends and I were in college, on T1 lines. We were also, like most, enthusiasts with the best hardware available. It was quite possible and being done on our server. This is 4ish months after velious released.

If they think it's a detriment to server and want to nerf it, thats one thing. Go for it. To say it wasn't possible at all is false.

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Sometimes when I play Everquest I get the funny feeling as if someone else at the same time could be playing. I often stare at the moon and wonder if someone else is staring at the moon.

[Jhaerik]

Look up any screens of the bixie event in EC tunnel if you don't think aoeing 100 mobs at a time was a thing the game supported in 2001 genius. Literal GM event that involved the very thing I need screens for you to believe. Can you prove with a screenshot you ever actually played this game before p99 or live PoP?

So basically you have no proof? k.

[Jhaerik]

I don't have ft15 or kei, this isn't PoP, having to cast quake once vs 8 times is a huge difference and not classic. It's not a huge deal but it's a deal and it's not classic - can you prove me wrong?



Bring a group with my level 60 to blackburrow?

It's not my job to prove anything. I'm happy with the AoE nerf. You are the one with something to prove. Prove that 200 mob pulls are classic.

[Jhaerik]

Okay fair enough you little shit. I'll break it down for you since you need to be educated.

First off, it isn't only about future changes. It is also about the staff hand picking changes they want to incorporate because whiny brats like you don't like the way things are.

I don't like the idea of the server changing in any manner simply to appease the majority. It ruins the integrity of the project. If I wanted a server like that I would just go play on Daybreak servers.

Also, if you're just going to dismiss the slippery slope argument, then what's the fucking point of ever logically discussing anything ever?

FYI this isn't the first time that the staff has implemented changes in the game away from classic mechanics in attempts to make the server better.

So basically what you are saying is you want him to NOT make changes... because of whiny brats like you?

How is that any different exactly?

[Jhaerik]

I don't get the hardware, connection argument. My friends and I were in college, on T1 lines. We were also, like most, enthusiasts with the best hardware available. It was quite possible and being done on our server. This is 4ish months after velious released.

If they think it's a detriment to server and want to nerf it, thats one thing. Go for it. To say it wasn't possible at all is false.

The majority of the gaming world was not on T1 lines and top of the line hardware in 2001. Hell I myself was in college in 2003 and the net in my dorm was horrible. I don't know what you were smoking in college.. and I hope you were not a statistics major...

[Jhaerik]

can u prove humans were a playable race in classic?

i await ur reply eagerly

25th Nov 2000 17:51 #4
ua
Guest
Yes, Ogres are about the best warriors, and like you said are hated by most. But Trolls are despised to an even greater extent. The Slam ability is a huge asset, thier big size however, is a dungeon nightmare, so you get to buy plenty of shrink potions, or make real nice with shammies.

Trolls have higher AGI dex, + regen (and the manual is wrong when it says they have ultra vision, they don't) While it is true that the regen is negligible later on, it will make the first 10 or so levels a bit easier. If you want to make a good warrior thats liked a bit better, Barbs are a good choice, they still get slam (im not sure about the slam defense) and are fairly strong. In a list if best to worst, IMHO it would go:

Ogre
Troll
Barbarian
Dwarf
Half Elf
Wood Elf
Half Elf
Iksar
Human
Dark Elf
Halfling
Gnome (the wussies of the fighter world, without good gear they can barely carry thier armor.)

If you decide on an ogre, get ready to hear "move yer fat butt" a lot. And roleplay.. Ogres=Roleplayers



http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5756
Google OP.

[Jhaerik]

25th Nov 2000 17:51 #4
ua
Guest
Yes, Ogres are about the best warriors, and like you said are hated by most. But Trolls are despised to an even greater extent. The Slam ability is a huge asset, thier big size however, is a dungeon nightmare, so you get to buy plenty of shrink potions, or make real nice with shammies.

Trolls have higher AGI dex, + regen (and the manual is wrong when it says they have ultra vision, they don't) While it is true that the regen is negligible later on, it will make the first 10 or so levels a bit easier. If you want to make a good warrior thats liked a bit better, Barbs are a good choice, they still get slam (im not sure about the slam defense) and are fairly strong. In a list if best to worst, IMHO it would go:

Ogre
Troll
Barbarian
Dwarf
Half Elf
Wood Elf
Half Elf
Iksar
Human
Dark Elf
Halfling
Gnome (the wussies of the fighter world, without good gear they can barely carry thier armor.)

If you decide on an ogre, get ready to hear "move yer fat butt" a lot. And roleplay.. Ogres=Roleplayers



http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5756
Google OP.

Your turn. Back something up.

[Malk]

please provide domain registration details or an archive link or something else demonstrating that these posts are from the time period you stated and not a fabrication with phony timestamps

Heh you had me going to my old eq screenshot archive, and while it's not a definive proof...

[Ha i was there during the green mist on live](http://i.imgur.com/Us28RoQ.png)

[Remember him ?](http://imgur.com/a/l9Cq1), the second one shows that i was on a RTC connexion at this time (and with Velious UI). I'm wondering if devs made it to the point of replicating classic bugs :p

And from the very same screenshot archive [we have a playable human](http://i.imgur.com/2e39Rs5.png), yeepee ! :D

[Chaboo_Cleric]

I had sex last night. I also skipped this thread. I am now opening it... I dissaprove , most ya'll need to get laid , dayum

[Malk]

Oops, guess i'm a bit addicted to reddit

[Muggens]

I know for a fact 26+ pulls where made back in the days and also big ass bard kites, and big aoe'ing.
If they really just wanted to nerf Chardok AoE with this patch it was a poor one as it ruined alot of other aspects in the game we are free to enjoy no more.
The game is best when its policed at a minimum, like a true sandbox world.

I dont see a problem with bard kiting, its a nice classic feature. The groups suffering from this can just move to one of the many untouched dungeons and get much better loot and exp. Or better, stay and harrass the bard untill he zones or dies.

No problem with mass AoE down mobs for faction, power level and more, this game is made very open to freely play as you enjoy in many different ways. New mobs will always spawn. Why this urge to /petition?

The only problem I could fathom with Chardok was that it was a bigtyme RMT business, but I didnt mind that either, why the heck should I care what other people do with their lives? And so what if the server is flooded with 60s, its really not that big of a deal.

Imposing new restricions within the game we love because its such an anarchich world, where we can come and enjoy ourselves free from the boundries of the states system/customs/world views or whatever wherever we are sux tho, thats my opinion.

[Malk]

can u please prove this was not a female ogre warrior that was given human illusion by a gm

Me ? no. But maybe [magelo](http://eq.magelo.com/profile/324107) can.

[Muggens]

problem is there are idiot cunt bards ruining zones and a shortage of people with the proper security clearance to act as volunteer staff to police said bards. No point getting butthurt about the bottom line requirements that keep the server going and stable, so I totally get putting in some systemic nerfs.

Just wish they were a little more specific!

This only happens in outside zones and once a blue moon inside something like KC. As I said outside theres always a bunch of other places to go and get exp, or you can pester the bard, or come back the next day, or a bunch of other options. Inside KC this rarely happens so its really not a problem at all, I say its a fun event when it actually does. And there are idiots playing all classes, not just bards.

Im not butthurt, nor did I read this thread, but I read the patch notes.
Ive never done chardok aoe, not even any regular aoe, I play melee chars. Not the bard kite either, but thats one thing I might wanna do some day.
I just dont get bothered at all by how other choose to play this game, or for that matter live their life, its your choice mate. Rules and more rules upon the inhabitants of the game/world makes me tired tho.

[Sillyturtle]

Heh you had me going to my old eq screenshot archive, and while it's not a definive proof...

[Ha i was there during the green mist on live](http://i.imgur.com/Us28RoQ.png)

[Remember him ?](http://imgur.com/a/l9Cq1), the second one shows that i was on a RTC connexion at this time (and with Velious UI). I'm wondering if devs made it to the point of replicating classic bugs :p

And from the very same screenshot archive [we have a playable human](http://i.imgur.com/2e39Rs5.png), yeepee ! :D

I love how dark things are.

I'm kind of sad that we don't have to deal with things like lack of night vision and so forth. I feel like it would really add ambiance and stuff. Often the 'look and feel' is as important as correct content.

[contemptor]

I know for a fact 26+ pulls where made back in the days and also big ass bard kites, and big aoe'ing.
If they really just wanted to nerf Chardok AoE with this patch it was a poor one as it ruined alot of other aspects in the game we are free to enjoy no more.
The game is best when its policed at a minimum, like a true sandbox world.

I dont see a problem with bard kiting, its a nice classic feature. The groups suffering from this can just move to one of the many untouched dungeons and get much better loot and exp. Or better, stay and harrass the bard untill he zones or dies.

No problem with mass AoE down mobs for faction, power level and more, this game is made very open to freely play as you enjoy in many different ways. New mobs will always spawn. Why this urge to /petition?

The only problem I could fathom with Chardok was that it was a bigtyme RMT business, but I didnt mind that either, why the heck should I care what other people do with their lives? And so what if the server is flooded with 60s, its really not that big of a deal.

Imposing new restricions within the game we love because its such an anarchich world, where we can come and enjoy ourselves free from the boundries of the states system/customs/world views or whatever wherever we are sux tho, thats my opinion.
All your thoughts are great if people didn't abuse everything. Unfortunately, that's 99% of what happens at this point. In fairness, I don't know what else the people with 6-8 geared 60s are supposed to do.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

I had sex last night. I also skipped this thread. I am now opening it... I dissaprove , most ya'll need to get laid , dayum

Was he hot? On a scale of 1 to 10 what would you say?

[Sodors Finest Poster]

When coming in from the rear i usually wear my train conductors hat.