Threat Weapon Rankings

[baue1446]

Please don't take this as gospel. There is a TON missing from this list. But I just wanted to get it started. So any additions let me know.

This is in my experience the Rankings of current agro weapons in game. Please lets discuss the list and move things in/up/down list as the discussion goes on. I think a good list of agro weapons with how much threat they produce will be a good resource for this section for tanks looking to get some threat weapons.

Now this doesn't include all the proc weapons cause some suck. Such as Jaleans, Kriezzen Flame, Dagarns Tail. They are great weapons but not threat weapons.

1
Scepter of Destruction
Strikes your target with a chaotic burst of mental energy, causing between 264 and 274 damage
2
Trident of the Deep Sea
Crushes your target with a wave of water, causing 20 damage every 6 seconds and lowering attack speed for up to 6 secs
3
Blade of Strategy
Strikes your target with the rage of Vallon Zek, causing 100 damage and severe anger in your target.
4
Nevederia's Horn
Constricts your target's throat, causing between 34 to 65 damage initially and 11 damage every six seconds for 1.5 mins as well as lowering their strength and agility. Damage per mana
5
Sword of the Shissar
Fills your target's blood with poison, causing 30 damage initially and 27 damage every six seconds for 42 seconds for a total of 219 damage
6
Wavecrasher
Chokes your target with mist, lowering attack speed and causing 20 damage every 6 seconds for up to 1 min
7
Willsapper
Drains your target's energy, lowering attack speed for up to 6 secs
8
Feverblade - Bane of the Shissar
Decrease hp by 110, +41 hp on mob per tick
9
Veldrak's Shortblade/Shortsword
Strikes your target with a burst of intense force, causing between 133 and 179 damage.
10
Cracked Claw of Zlandicar
Saps your target's power, decreasing their agility, strength, and armor class for 4.0 mins
11
Braid of Golden Hair
Summons a swarm of insects to attack your target, causing 50 damage every 6 seconds for up to 6 secs
12
Blade of the Swarm
Summons a swarm of insects to attack your target, causing 50 damage every 6 seconds for up to 6 secs
13
Frostbringer
Freezes your target with ice, lowering armor class and causing 60 damage.
14
Sarnak Warhammer
Strikes an enemy with holy power, briefly stunning them
15
Silken Whip of Ensnaring
Entangles your target's feet with magical roots, slowing their movement speed
16
Ykeshan Weapons
Decrease Hitpoints by 75

[Samoht]

16
Ykeshan Weapons
Decrease Hitpoints by 75

Aggro in Ykesha is so high because of the instant stun, not the damage.

Also, there's no mention of Infestation or Trochilic's Skean in your list.

[baue1446]

Aggro in Ykesha is so high because of the instant stun, not the damage.

Also, there's no mention of Infestation or Trochilic's Skean in your list.

Where do you think those weapons fit in on the list? I haven't used either so unsure.

[Naethyn]

Nev Horn is terrible aggro. The reason zlandi cracked claw is so good is the ac reduction which the horn doesn't have.

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

Where do you think those weapons fit in on the list? I haven't used either so unsure.

Towards the top of the list, due to the nature of the proc rather than the ratio of the weapon.
In general best aggro procs are
stun/dd
dot
slow/debuff
lifetap/other

[baue1446]

Nev Horn is terrible aggro. The reason zlandi cracked claw is so good is the ac reduction which the horn doesn't have.

So drop down or off the list?

[Naethyn]

1
Blade of Strategy
2
Cracked Claw of Zlandicar
3
Trident of the Deep Sea
4
Wavecrasher/Willsapper/Truncheon of Doom
5
Scepter of Destruction
6
Sword of Shissar / Infestation
7
Jaelen's Katana
8
Blood Point
9
Frostbringer
10
Feverblade
11
Veldrak's Weapons
12
Silver Whip of Rage
13
Trochilic's Skean
14
Sarnak Warhammer
15
Ykesha Weapons

SoD is the rolex (and most desireable) of weapons for obvious reasons (stats, rarity). Procs are secondary and white damage really matters. Ask me the BIS combo and I'd say Jaelen's primary and a Blade of Carnage secondary.

Edit: had blood point and jaelen's switched

[lootrogue]

In general best aggro procs are
stun/dd
dot
slow/debuff
lifetap/other

I tend to agree with this threat/proc tier list. However, I'm curious as to what you would say about the weapons that might have a proc that has components from 2 different tiers? I've thought of this before and I've never had an organic opportunity to bring it up.

For instance, wavecrasher has a slow and dot components in one proc. Anecdotally, I want to say that I notice a giant jump in threat level immediately upon proccing the wc, so it seems to me that the slow portion generates threat independently of the dot since the dot doesn't even need to tick to see an immediate snap of agro. Furthermore, I considered weapons that just have dot procs and I noticed that these weapons seem to generate a long series of threat spikes corresponding with the dot ticks instead of one large threat dump like you see on the dd/stun/slow. Personally, I noticed this when using infestation. Specifically if I hadn't snapped agro immediately upon proc that I would snap agro nearly the instant its dot would actually tick its 1st/2nd/3rd/etc. round of damage.

If it's additive or cumulative at all, weapons like the wavecrasher should be in a unique tier above any weapon that exclusively has a dot component or slow component proc. I couldn't think of another weapon with a proc like that so that's why I use wc as my example, if there are others feel free to differentiate accordingly. Again, this is just something I noticed and wondered about to myself before, if anyone has anything they could add or point out, feel free.

Other than that, I would consider the edited list from OP to be accurate and pretty darn useful.

[baue1446]

1
Blade of Strategy
2
Cracked Claw of Zlandicar
3
Trident of the Deep Sea
4
Wavecrasher/Willsapper/Truncheon of Doom
5
Scepter of Destruction
6
Sword of Shissar / Infestation
7
Jaelen's Katana
8
Blood Point
9
Frostbringer
10
Feverblade
11
Veldrak's Weapons
12
Silver Whip of Rage
13
Trochilic's Skean
14
Sarnak Warhammer
15
Ykesha Weapons

SoD is the rolex (and most desireable) of weapons for obvious reasons (stats, rarity). Procs are secondary and white damage really matters. Ask me the BIS combo and I'd say Jaelen's primary and a Blade of Carnage secondary.

Edit: had blood point and jaelen's switched

Ive used jaleans and blood point and consider both garbage for agro. Not sure how you consider them even close to feverblade and verdix which have great snap agro imo.

[lootrogue]

In general best aggro procs are
stun/dd
dot
slow/debuff
lifetap/other

For an example, this is how I think a proc event is handled in regards to threat.

I'm going to start by assigning each proc type a value and setting a scale based on this tier list and then observe that over time (instant procs I'm going to consider 1sec duration) Using 'units of threat' or (tu) ill try to illustrate what I'm noticing.

Stun/DD = 12tu (instant) = 12tu/1sec
DoT = 16tu (instant 4tu; each DoT tick generates 3tu) = 4tu/1sec + 12tu/18sec = 4tu/1sec + an additional avg of 1.5tu/1sec for 18seconds; note can be refreshed.
Slow/Debuff = 8tu (instant) = 8tu/1sec
lifetap/other = 5tu (instant) = 5tu/1sec

I think this is why DoT weapons like infestation can out perform something like a willsapper or other lower tier proc when just considering threat. The infestation can proc to generate a modest amount of threat immediately, then sustain the threat for the duration of the DoT by way of a constant intake of small threat from each subsequent tick of damage. Keep in mind, it could be maintained a lot longer than the duration because it can be refreshed, which would also add another chunk of threat instantly because the fresh proc and also extend the lifetime of that constant threat/time that comes from the DoT ticking. I think this is why weapons like this can get you like 90% of the way to being an awesome threat dealing machine with like 1% of the effort involved in getting a technically better threat weapon like Epic or ZClaw. I'm assuming I'm wrong, but this is the best model I've come up with that explains the differences between the proc types.

But for something like the wavecrasher I'm not so sure a DoT weapon alone can out perform it because of the dot ticks that follow a large instant threat spike from the slow portion.
Wavecrasher proc = 8tu/1sec(slow threat) + 4tu/1sec(instant dot threat) + 'N'tu/1sec for Xseconds from the dot. Given that its a dot just like Infestation it has the capability of refreshing its proc too. Thereby not only generating that initial spike in threat, but also further sustaining its threat/time by resetting the dot dmg timer.

Lemme know if you see a flaw in my reasoning, I'm pretty mentally wiped out from work so I hope Im making sense lol.

tl;dr Wavecrasher I think should be on the same tier as Trident of the Deep Sea, given they both have procs that slow and dot. And given the way procs seem to work here, it should be placed with its counterpart and away from other weapons that uniquely slow or dot.

[delfi]

1
Blade of Strategy
2
Cracked Claw of Zlandicar
3
Trident of the Deep Sea
4
Wavecrasher/Willsapper/Truncheon of Doom
5
Scepter of Destruction
6
Sword of Shissar / Infestation
7
Jaelen's Katana
8
Blood Point
9
Frostbringer
10
Feverblade
11
Veldrak's Weapons
12
Silver Whip of Rage
13
Trochilic's Skean
14
Sarnak Warhammer
15
Ykesha Weapons


Bloodpoint has more threat than Frostbringer? Sorry, no.

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

Just as a stunn+ dd is good aggro so too is slow + dot. You are correct in thinking that each dot tick adds hate. Will post more coherent thoughts after work.
To whoever said that lifetap made good threat, this was not my experience on live.

I tend to agree with this threat/proc tier list. However, I'm curious as to what you would say about the weapons that might have a proc that has components from 2 different tiers? I've thought of this before and I've never had an organic opportunity to bring it up.

For instance, wavecrasher has a slow and dot components in one proc. Anecdotally, I want to say that I notice a giant jump in threat level immediately upon proccing the wc, so it seems to me that the slow portion generates threat independently of the dot since the dot doesn't even need to tick to see an immediate snap of agro. Furthermore, I considered weapons that just have dot procs and I noticed that these weapons seem to generate a long series of threat spikes corresponding with the dot ticks instead of one large threat dump like you see on the dd/stun/slow. Personally, I noticed this when using infestation. Specifically if I hadn't snapped agro immediately upon proc that I would snap agro nearly the instant its dot would actually tick its 1st/2nd/3rd/etc. round of damage.

If it's additive or cumulative at all, weapons like the wavecrasher should be in a unique tier above any weapon that exclusively has a dot component or slow component proc. I couldn't think of another weapon with a proc like that so that's why I use wc as my example, if there are others feel free to differentiate accordingly. Again, this is just something I noticed and wondered about to myself before, if anyone has anything they could add or point out, feel free.

Other than that, I would consider the edited list from OP to be accurate and pretty darn useful.

[xKoopa]

Lifetap is terrible threat, not sure why blood point is considered an aggro wep

[Auchae]

If youre going to throw in the ykhesha weapons, skean, bloodpoint, etc. (In other words, low end weaps that are still decent aggro) should we mention the Skorpikis Claw Impaler? Unless it was nerfed or changed, the proc generates stupid aggro and has a similar ratio to ykhesha weaps. Also bloodpoint isnt particularly good aggro in comparison to the rest.. Lifetap is kind of middle of the road when compared to hate, stun, poison, debuff, and even straight heavy DD procs.

[elwing]

lifetap do agro as DD and healing at once, my understanding would mean that a 50lifetap would agro like a pure 100 dd, or am I wrong? pure dd are probably not better, but lots of dd have chance to interrupt, and that stun portion is probably good for agro. but from what I heard poison/disease dot have stupidly high agro there...

[Auchae]

lifetap do agro as DD and healing at once, my understanding would mean that a 50lifetap would agro like a pure 100 dd, or am I wrong? pure dd are probably not better, but lots of dd have chance to interrupt, and that stun portion is probably good for agro. but from what I heard poison/disease dot have stupidly high agro there...

Youre probably right that it does give both aggro from dd and healing but its still kinda low in comparison to the aggro from say the steel hilted flint dagger(not a warrior weap but its the kind of high dd aggro im talking about. Not much on par with that if anything but you get what im saying.)

Took a quick google search to find but heres where some of what im saying comes from. Does the link from the OP work for you? Im on my phone so its not working for me, but has a lot of info if you can still pull up the table. Its from before velious, but can use the info here to make some assumptions for velious procs. That is assuming the link works.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143899

[Jimjam]

lifetap do agro as DD and healing at once, my understanding would mean that a 50lifetap would agro like a pure 100 dd, or am I wrong? pure dd are probably not better, but lots of dd have chance to interrupt, and that stun portion is probably good for agro. but from what I heard poison/disease dot have stupidly high agro there...

If you look at the spell details, the only slot on the spell is the direct damage. It is the spell target_type (lifetap) that gives the heal recourse.

I've always felt life tap aggro was low, I'm pretty sure only the DD component causes aggro. I don't think having the lifetap target_type causes any aggro multiplier on that aggro.

http://wiki.project1999.com/Siphon

[elwing]

isn't the healing part acting just like any heal?
anyway, better use some DD+Stun, poison or slow+something proc for threat...

[Auchae]

I honestly dont think slow is as effective of a proc as people give it credit for. Its solid but if anything the best ratio weapons should be used and if a weapon with a proc is comparable ratio to a weapon without a proc, make a judgement call. The reason frontal stun immunity is so useful for a warrior is because you never stop swinging so you are constantly generating aggro. For every second you are stunned thats just time lost that could have been swinging your weapons for aggro.

[lootrogue]

I honestly dont think slow is as effective of a proc as people give it credit for.

What's your reasoning behind this? Asking any shaman or ench about slow and it's threat generation is enough to dispel this as not true. How did you come to this conclusion?

[kaev]

Slow is huge agro. Lifetap seems to be same agro as DD (i.e. proportional to damage done so the 80hp tap on blood point isn't that big.) Stun is solid (equiv to 400-ish dd/tap), which is why ykesha stun+dd (threat of stun+dd counts both effects) can be effective even tho the melee threat from the weapons is poor.

Debuffs (like Frostbringer proc) and Dots (like Trochilic's Skean proc) are v good agro. IME Trochilic's Skean was noticeably better agro than Blood Point despite inferior ratio (unless it refused to proc, ofc.) Snare should be better agro than it is here (i think), but does not seem to get any threat at all when the mob already has a snare on it that your proc snare cannot overwrite, so snare whip is limited in value as a proc weap despite its nice off-hand ratio.

These values are from memory on live, so might not be 100% accurate:
mainhand agro = (dmg*2)+level_bonus per swing
offhand agro = (dmg*2) per swing (remember swings only on dual wield and has less double attack swing chance)
2h weapon agro = ((dmg*2)+level_bonus)*0.70
dd (incl. lifetap) = max damage (i think, might be damage done instead)
slow ~ 500
stun/debuff/poisondot ~ 400 (i.e. any stun, druid/ranger/chanter debuff+dot spells, & necro/shaman poison dots)

If you rely on proc weapons for agro (i.e. if you are a warrior and you don't hang with casters who worship at the altar of root) you will have some trouble holding agro vs. lazy monks and rogues and rangers. p99 is home to a lot of DPS melees who can't be bothered to actually use their threat reduction abilities, some are quite obstinate in their refusal but we can educate the rest. Boon of the Garou is your friend, learn to love it!

[elwing]

isn't poison based on counter? like 250 per counter? meaning 750 per proc for troch or scorpikis claw?

[Auchae]

What's your reasoning behind this? Asking any shaman or ench about slow and it's threat generation is enough to dispel this as not true. How did you come to this conclusion?

Sorry i meant i didnt think its as effective as a proc on a weapon not referring to the aggro of slow spells in general. I know slow aggro is really good but for some reason i thought it worked like snare does here, where you get "spell did not take hold" message if a higher percent slow or snare is on the mob. For snare that also kills the aggro generation from the proc. It made using Kunzar Kujuch in groups with a snarer kind of pointless. Unless they changed that part and slow proc doesnt act similarly.

[RDawg816]

isn't poison based on counter? like 250 per counter? meaning 750 per proc for troch or scorpikis claw?
Yes. Or at least it should be. :)

[Freakish]

Sorry i meant i didnt think its as effective as a proc on a weapon not referring to the aggro of slow spells in general. I know slow aggro is really good but for some reason i thought it worked like snare does here, where you get "spell did not take hold" message if a higher percent slow or snare is on the mob. For snare that also kills the aggro generation from the proc. It made using Kunzar Kujuch in groups with a snarer kind of pointless. Unless they changed that part and slow proc doesnt act similarly.

You.still get hate from a slow resist / slow did not take hold message. It's easy to see if the mobs turned away, you proc and he instantly flips to you.

[Lojik]

What's your reasoning behind this? Asking any shaman or ench about slow and it's threat generation is enough to dispel this as not true. How did you come to this conclusion?

I think spells with counters are huge threat, not sure the exact value of infestation v. wavecrasher. Weapon slows are generally lower values than shm slow (75% to wavecrasher...20%??) which means they're not going (at least I think) be as much aggro as a shm casting turgurs. Tash is some aggro with counters, but have a shm cast insidious decay on an inc mob and see if that doesn't snap some aggro to them ahha.

isn't poison based on counter? like 250 per counter? meaning 750 per proc for troch or scorpikis claw?

I think the counter aggro only happens once, so if its 250 for counter, its 250 once then 24 per tick or whatever dmg is.

[Jmcwrestling]

Tsserina would be good then because of the poison counters?

[Auchae]

Tsserina would be good then because of the poison counters?

It probably does but the ratio is pretty sorry i wouldnt want to rely on 7/22 weap just for the proc. Its not going to be stable enough to keep the other melees from pulling it from you before you get a proc. Also gotta make sure no ones snaring so you dont get aggro blocked. Would have similar issues to the kunzar kujuch i think.

[Naethyn]

I'd love to get a Tsserina whip to snare things high MR like WW dragons. I have all the keys except the 6th never dropped.

[Sallan]

I'd love to get a Tsserina whip to snare things high MR like WW dragons. I have all the keys except the 6th never dropped.

Also works on HoT drakes from what I hear(?), which is awesome

[delfi]

Also works on HoT drakes from what I hear(?), which is awesome

Calling bull on this one, but I could be wrong. All HoT drakes are flagged as immune to changes in their run speed.

Whip is sweet though, got one on warrior and it is yummy :).

[delfi]

Also, best time to use whip is when torpored. Your haste is negated so you have very little threat from white dmg...might as well put on a high threat proc weapon at that point, which is where whip comes in.

[eisley]

beware about Tserrina's Whip: it is ungodly rare, it took me 56 kills to get... took about 5 days of leaving my roommates warrior camped out up at the bats, logging in every hour to clear them... annoying mob to kill too, stupid unresistable spinstun proc ughhhh

but it is amazing: highest aggro proc in the entire game, also has the side benefit of being a 4 min duration, 40% snare, that is POISON based, so it can snare a lot of things that are otherwise immune to snare based on being immune to magic. however, it wont snare things that are hardcoded immune to movement changing effects (ie - hot drakes), the spell can LAND but it wont actually snare.

proc seems to do about 1400 aggro.

[Sallan]

Yeah takes a bit to get a whip. I guess it was just hear say on it's snare landing for HoT drakes (didn't realize they are flagged as immune to run speed). Ah well

[eisley]

yeah drakes are immune, but thats not classic. i believe dald posted proof that drakes shouldnt be immune to snare.

i think that wyverns, racnars, and wurms are all root/snarable however.

[Trollhide]

Have a question about my weapon setup on L20 warrior:

I have Frostbringer, Lamentation, and Venomous Axe. What is the optimal setup for threat, and for DPS?

Am I right in assuming that the answer to both is FB main, Lam offhand, and sell the venomous axe?

[Boyblunder]

Blade of Carnage not being second to SoD surprised me.

[Naethyn]

Blade of Carnage doesn't have a proc on this server. With that said, I consider the very best warrior combo to be a Jaelen's Katana primary and Blade of Carnage secondary under the premise that if a warrior slot can have 100 hp I only consider items with 100 hp for that slot.

[lurk]

Naethyn has a good point there. Stats are really what matter in a lot of cases. In groups you can root. On raids you can use the highest stat wep+sheild (dagass+whitestone?) and you can hold agro without attacking (+no riposte). Agro clicks can be traded out if youre not attacking. Thats taking it to an exreme but it is probably the best way to tank something like AOW

[Dolalin]

Wrapped Entropy Serpent Spine needs to be on this list, and high up there to boot.