Raid guild that doesnt require vent [Archive]

Jadian

01-17-2011, 06:37 PM

Not making a big deal is different than explaining yourself.

"Hey guys, I'm deaf so there's no point in me downloading vent" = you probably stay in the guild, and someone is designated to explain important things to you via tells at any raids.

Not downloading vent + not saying anything = guild thinking you don't give a shit.

No guild, no matter how hardcore, has leaders that are big enough dicks to kick you (your friend) for being deaf.

Chanus

01-17-2011, 06:39 PM

I wouldn't say no guild. There is always at least one asshole in any group.

No guild worth joining, though.

Teensy Weensy

01-17-2011, 06:46 PM

I listen to vent during a raid, but Im not about to get a headset with a mic so I respond in guild chat and just let vent play in my speaker on my laptop

Jadian

01-17-2011, 06:49 PM

I wouldn't say no guild. There is always at least one asshole in any group.

No guild worth joining, though.

I said leaders. Of course there's shitbags in any group(guild). But I can promise you any guild with leaders that would ex-communicate deaf people isn't going to be successful

SlankyLanky

01-17-2011, 06:52 PM

I said leaders. Of course there's shitbags in any group(guild). But I can promise you any guild with leaders that would ex-communicate deaf people isn't going to be successful

i get your point. but realy...theres maybe 2 deaf people playing on p1999. i dont think them not being part of the raid is going to fuck it up.

Jadian

01-17-2011, 06:59 PM

Yeah you're missing my point.

I'm not saying guilds can't be successful without deaf people. That's pretty stupid that you even went there. I'm saying a LEADER that can't even work with his guild well enough to figure out if someone is deaf, or that has so little compassion for his members as to kick anyone who can't comply with 100% of some hardcore rules will not operate a successful guild on this server.

Fourthmeal

01-17-2011, 07:02 PM

Vent is for nerds anyway

Mardur

01-17-2011, 07:07 PM

I said leaders. Of course there's shitbags in any group(guild). But I can promise you any guild with leaders that would ex-communicate deaf people isn't going to be successful

I would argue the opposite. Any raid guild that does not require ventrilo is doomed to fail from the beginning. The amount of time you save communicating via speech compared to typing is invaluable. Voice chat also creates stronger bonds among guildmates. The proliferation of ventrilo is one of the only positive things that have happened to MMOs recently.

I've already turned down more than one applicant who told me they refused to use ventrilo. However, even I would make an exception for someone who was deaf, granted they knew what they were doing and were good at the game.

I assume you and your deaf friend went about the situation poorly.

DetroitVelvetSmooth

01-17-2011, 07:11 PM

Ventrilo = not classic.

Duma

01-17-2011, 07:57 PM

Ventrilo = not classic.

You're right, we all used Roger Wilco back in the day.

Erasong

01-17-2011, 08:23 PM

dozekar use vent?

YendorLootmonkey

01-17-2011, 08:34 PM

You think playing EQ while deaf is difficult? Just wait until I start recruiting for < Yendor's Raid Guild for the Blind >

Retan

01-17-2011, 09:52 PM

I assume you and your deaf friend went about the situation poorly.

My friend was instructed to get in vent or get guild removed. His reply was " i will leave" he was then guildremoved. He didnt handle the situation correctly because he should not have applied to a guild where vent is required. That is the issue, a guild that doesnt require vent. He wasnt booted for being deaf.

Jadian

01-17-2011, 10:08 PM

I would argue the opposite. Any raid guild that does not require ventrilo is doomed to fail from the beginning. The amount of time you save communicating via speech compared to typing is invaluable. Voice chat also creates stronger bonds among guildmates. The proliferation of ventrilo is one of the only positive things that have happened to MMOs recently.

I've already turned down more than one applicant who told me they refused to use ventrilo. However, even I would make an exception for someone who was deaf, granted they knew what they were doing and were good at the game.

I assume you and your deaf friend went about the situation poorly.

You didn't argue the opposite, in fact you said the same thing I did. I didn't say not to use vent, I said any guild leader worth a lick will make exceptions (For good players)

Seeatee

01-17-2011, 10:25 PM

its kind of sad that people have forgotten how to raid with out vent, my guild did just fine w/o vent back in the day, and I would imagine most guilds would do just fine now w/o vent if they weren't too lazy to try.

ir0nfist

01-17-2011, 10:27 PM

My friend was instructed to get in vent or get guild removed. His reply was " i will leave" he was then guildremoved. He didnt handle the situation correctly because he should not have applied to a guild where vent is required. That is the issue, a guild that doesnt require vent. He wasnt booted for being deaf.

Uh to be honest it sounds like your friend was being purposely vague so he could feel self righteous in his refusal and subsequent removal maybe? Why wouldn't he tell them he was deaf? This makes no sense to me at all.

Autotune

01-17-2011, 10:33 PM

My friend was instructed to get in vent or get guild removed. His reply was " i will leave" he was then guildremoved. He didnt handle the situation correctly because he should not have applied to a guild where vent is required. That is the issue, a guild that doesnt require vent. He wasnt booted for being deaf.

So the deaf person decided to remain silent about being deaf to the guild, but had no problems with it getting posted on the forums?

Instead of complaining, you should have just explained yourself in the first place. Yo im deaf, cant use vent you idiots. < that would have been fine.

now you come to the forums for sympathy... that's just sad.

Bushwick

01-17-2011, 10:44 PM

Retan, your friend will have difficulty finding a raiding guild that doesn't rely on voice chat when raiding. However, I sincerely doubt he would be rejected from a guild that was made aware of his situation. It's understandable that he may feel uncomfortable sharing information about his disability here, but in this situation he will need to advocate for himself if he wants access to this portion of P1999's gameplay.

It would be a small thing for a guild to task one player on a raid with the responsibility to relay crucial information broadcast over voice chat into /g for hearing impaired players. In fact, I really love this idea.

its kind of sad that people have forgotten how to raid with out vent, my guild did just fine w/o vent back in the day, and I would imagine most guilds would do just fine now w/o vent if they weren't too lazy to try.

Your scathing disapproval aside, what reason would a group of players have for completely ignoring modern conventions and the advantages they offer?

oldhead

01-17-2011, 10:47 PM

You're right, we all used Roger Wilco back in the day.

We typed when i played.... :eek:

Scratch&Sniff

01-17-2011, 10:50 PM

dozekar use vent?

nope

Mardur

01-17-2011, 10:59 PM

Sure any guild can do "fine" without voice chat, and some do such as Darkwind. But P99 is more cutthroat than any live server was. Voice chat unarguably gives a huge advantage.

Alkorin

01-18-2011, 01:00 AM

Nivar Quartz

01-18-2011, 01:22 AM

Dozekar has vent, but its not required, and raids are lead the old fashion way. If some others ( see above ) believe they have an advantage by requiring, more power to you.

Dozekar is listed in guild section of the forums, with websight and who to contact if ur interested.

Mardur

01-18-2011, 01:28 AM

The number of assumptions made in this thread is staggering.

Did it ever occur to you guys that someone who lives every day of their life with a disability might not want to use that as a crutch all the time, and might, in fact, be looking to escape from it? Perhaps this person had no interest in explaining his situation simply because in this game, it shouldn't matter?

Honestly, stop with the judging already.

I'm just putting myself in the shoes of whoever removed the deaf dude. If someone sent me a tell saying "I refuse to join vent during raids" I'd say sorry buddy, it's a requirement to be in my guild. However, if the guy said "I'd really love to be able to participate in vent, but I'm deaf" I'd definitely be arranging provisions for the guy so that he could be effective on raids while not participating in voice chat. It's called communicating information, not using a disability as a crutch.

fastboy21

01-18-2011, 01:35 AM

vent's usefulness in raiding for eq is very over-rated.

more often than not, at least in my opinion, voice chat is actually MORE confusing than giving simple text directions. vent isn't super high quality, there are background noises, language accents, people who can't shut up, etc...

to me, a few hours each night of that is FAR more wearing than old school chat communication.

there are times when it is useful...and I'm sure there are plenty of folks who for legit reasons are more comfortable with audible communication, but i think it is still way over-used.

nalkin

01-18-2011, 02:11 AM

mumble > vent

Nebichan

01-18-2011, 03:34 AM

The problem was lack of information. How is someone supposed to tell the difference between people that refuse to get on vent (like their speakers are "broken" for a month now, hasn't gotten around to get vent to work or "I'm hanging out in another guy's vent atm") and someone who is actually unable to? I'm not saying "announce to the entire guild" that you are deaf. Contact the GL or an officer - they will understand - not judge - not smear this info on every wall - and things can be worked around. Don't judge people for not "accepting deaf people" when no mention of this was ever made.

Instructions are given on vent - especially during spammy times (lots of heal spam) or to get a specific pet off a mob. Saying when you crashed or where you died - saying "dont heal me" when a big train is about to whack you.

Curmudgen

01-18-2011, 09:11 AM

I guess like all the "wives" and "girlfriends" needing IP exemptions that there will be a new wave of deaf folks that can't use vent.

Good thing too. Someone explain to me how someone bitching endlessly about the purity of classic eq can turn around and use vent.

Pycoba_rng

01-18-2011, 09:23 AM

I've led over 40 + raids on P99 , at least 20 + were public ones if that. Yes they were on another character. All the raids I led on P99 had no vent involved at all. If I could lead public raids without vent sucessfully. Then it goes to show vent is only as good as you make it. Vent is also great if your a leader that can't type worth a damn. Do I think vent is useful? Yes absolutely... As far as it being better , it really depends on the players. I'm oldschool and i like doing things the old fashion way so I choose not to use it.

john_savage1982

01-18-2011, 09:36 AM

I would argue the opposite. Any raid guild that does not require ventrilo is doomed to fail from the beginning. The amount of time you save communicating via speech compared to typing is invaluable. Voice chat also creates stronger bonds among guildmates. The proliferation of ventrilo is one of the only positive things that have happened to MMOs recently.

I've already turned down more than one applicant who told me they refused to use ventrilo. However, even I would make an exception for someone who was deaf, granted they knew what they were doing and were good at the game.

I assume you and your deaf friend went about the situation poorly.

I beg to differ. Voice chat is one of the downfalls of MMORPGs. Before I could log into EQ and immerse myself in a world of fantasy. Then guilds started using voice chat and suddenly I have to listen to a 12 year old pre-pubescent boy get his rocks off playing a female high elf enchanter.....or an internet tough guy talk in a really deep creepy-man voice.

It ruins the game for me.

john_savage1982

01-18-2011, 09:38 AM

I'm just putting myself in the shoes of whoever removed the deaf dude. If someone sent me a tell saying "I refuse to join vent during raids" I'd say sorry buddy, it's a requirement to be in my guild. However, if the guy said "I'd really love to be able to participate in vent, but I'm deaf" I'd definitely be arranging provisions for the guy so that he could be effective on raids while not participating in voice chat. It's called communicating information, not using a disability as a crutch.

I'd ask "why not dude?", because I'm not a dickhead. Why does the other person immediately have to explain themselves? If you had to take off work to get surgery to remove your testicles would you tell your boss that immediately when you say "I have to take off work because I'm getting my balls cut off."

Of course you'd provide a BS reason like "personal reasons" but the point is this is supposed to be a game and people here treat it like it's a god damn job. Congratz to the deaf dude for saying "I don't give a fuck."

Odeseus

01-18-2011, 01:17 PM

Vent is nice for complicated encounters, but I rarely use it. I have no mic, but I have logged in to listen to make sure I don't miss anything "important". Half the time I can't understand what is being said, or what is being said is completely irrelevant to what is happening. Then you add in that vent is far from perfect (one guy speaks too loudly, too softly, has music turned up so loud that you can't hear him, another has a horribly annoying voice for whatever reason, and on and on) and I find it more trouble than it is worth.

2 major things tip the scales for me. If I really needed to, I'd deal with all the imperfections. BUT the strats and encounters here are 12 years old now. Each raiding guild probably has their own strats or guides posted. There is no excuse for having no idea what to do. Leaders shouldn't have to tell you anything too horribly important in vent or otherwise about what is happening.

The other major thing is that I am a mage. I basically do 3 things: send pet in, nuke and hand out mod rods. Rarely do I do anything else. Do I really need to be in vent for this? Now, it would be different if I was the main tank, puller or healer. Those people may want to use vent, but I'm not in those groups so I don't worry about it.

Oh, and if it is a problem of letting people know strats quickly, you can always do what my guild leader did back on live: save the strats on macros. Basically "/guild This mob does X, Y and Z. Classes A, B and C need to do this, etc."

Just my thoughts.

Mcbard

01-18-2011, 01:42 PM

Retan, your friend will have difficulty finding a raiding guild that doesn't rely on voice chat when raiding. However, I sincerely doubt he would be rejected from a guild that was made aware of his situation. It's understandable that he may feel uncomfortable sharing information about his disability here, but in this situation he will need to advocate for himself if he wants access to this portion of P1999's gameplay.

It would be a small thing for a guild to task one player on a raid with the responsibility to relay crucial information broadcast over voice chat into /g for hearing impaired players. In fact, I really love this idea.

Your scathing disapproval aside, what reason would a group of players have for completely ignoring modern conventions and the advantages they offer?

Holy shit. A mature thought out opinion?

You do not belong here sir, but all the same: well put. :)

Dr4z3r

01-18-2011, 01:56 PM

Wow, 4 pages of bullshit, when the OP required a 4 word answer:

Dozekar
Doesn't
Require
Vent

Mardur

01-18-2011, 02:05 PM

Isn't Dozekar also in the process of falling apart at the moment?

Kassel

01-18-2011, 02:10 PM

no one needs vent for 12 year old tank and spank content....

Shiftin

01-18-2011, 02:21 PM

The question is really answered in what do you consider "raiding".

Can you clear fear/hate armor mobs without vent? Of course you can. Are those really "raids" at this point in the timeline? That's more a matter of opinion.

Can you do isle 4-5+ of sky, race for draco/CT/Vox/Naggy and the upcoming kunark dragons without vent? Not nearly as effectively. I guess you could have giant macro banks for the top 40 most common things your raid leaders would need to call for, but even if you did it's a lot less efficient than "XXXX down, XXXX in" real quick by a raid leader in voice chat.

Bush's response is well-reasoned as well.

Aanelan

01-18-2011, 03:07 PM

Honestly I think it all comes down to how much he liked his old guild if it was something he really cared about then making his situation known privately to the leadership would have been the way to go. If he wasn't really happy then looking for a new guild is fine. Making a huge deal about his disability in this post is bullshit if he doesn't even want to deal with himself or explain to his guild what's up. Just my 2cp

eldub

01-18-2011, 06:05 PM

Running all of your raiding through Chat is also extremely difficult without Chat Channels beyond the default. You'd be amazed how fast 30 people can plow through /gu unless you really want to spew all of your macros into /auc and /ooc, etc.

Once chat channels were implemented, it became a lot easier to manage guild raiding (even on 72-man content) via text.

Chanus

01-18-2011, 06:08 PM

I don't see where there's much else to talk about.

You can't force people to respect the game "as it was" and not use Vent.

If you don't want to use Vent, don't join a guild that requires Vent.

There isn't any content that's too difficult or complex to be accomplished without Vent, so if your guild doesn't want to use Vent... don't use Vent.

Oh, and if your guild wants to use Vent for whatever reason... use Vent.

hrafn

01-19-2011, 04:38 AM

Ventrilo/teamspeak = not classic.

fikze'd

ryuut1

01-19-2011, 05:05 AM

deaf people have no souls

zenoo

01-19-2011, 05:59 AM

I learned how to type fast because I felt it gave me an advantage in video games. There is no message so complex in EQ that can't be typed in like 3 seconds. I see vent as a way for people who like to hear themselves talk force an audience, but hey, raid leaders rules if you wanna raid.

Not sure how this became an ethics debate about how to treat deaf players.

Tudana

01-19-2011, 07:54 AM

We typed when i played.... :eek:
I used a rock, sharp bone and a piece of slate

jilena

01-19-2011, 08:55 AM

I am not a fan of ventrilo personally for large groups of people. It's neat when hanging out with 3-4 friends and you want to bullshit. But even then I am typically listening to music and will type responses to what's said in ventrilo rather than use my mic. It's also less obtrusive when doing things that need constant keyboard input, like tanking, healing, mezzing, playing a bard. It's not so bad in Everquest since gameplay is like a snail's pace compared to newer games but being able to just speak rather than having to click buttons you'd normally get with a hotkey because you are typing is still a bonus.

As far as raiding goes, I am of the opinion that typed out strats and/or instructions are superior for the initial engagement. Once typed they can easily be reviewed, if people miss what is said over ventrilo, they can't just scroll back up to read it. During the actual fights however obviously being able to yell "You are going to DPS very very slowly. Now! And by slowly I mean FUCKING SLOW!" rather than trying to type it out is helpful and more efficient. *shrug*

tl;dr - Vent = lame but a bonus for on the fly changes!

Dr4z3r

01-19-2011, 10:24 AM

There is no message so complex in EQ that can't be typed in like 3 seconds.

3 seconds in classic EQ is also known as a BATU (Bard AFK Time Unit).

dallammarr

01-19-2011, 12:54 PM

You're right, we all used Roger Wilco back in the day.

Lol I remember good ole Roger wilco. My bro and I set up our own server for it on our linux box. We also had the band new 1mbps cable modem service which we used the same linux box to make a router to share the internet access on our home LAN. This was before you could walk into a bestbuy and buy a router that was plug n play. Also comcast frowned upon sharing the internet connection between multiple computers at the time...ahh the good ole days.

its kind of sad that people have forgotten how to raid with out vent, my guild did just fine w/o vent back in the day, and I would imagine most guilds would do just fine now w/o vent if they weren't too lazy to try.

True, actually most raid leaders would set up hot keys with scripts to explain to the guild the chain of events via guildchat or some other chat channel. They also hotkeyed scripts to call for more DPS or Heals to MT etc. It IS infact very possible to raid without the use of voip systems. It just takes a bit more coordination is all.