Noser's Anti-Poopsock First to Engage Raid Rules

[Noser]

* Have a full boss spawn that randomly occurs once a week. (similar to patch day on live.)

* No guilds are allowed to have 5+ members camped in a raid zone or adjacent raid zone at any time with the intent to raid a target. The exception to this would be for those that are under level 50 and are experiencing.

* The guild that is first to engage has claim to the boss, abolishing the 15 member claim rule.

The idea is to encourage guilds to race rather than poopsock raid targets.

I would like to hear some counter-arguments to this proposal other than "this isn't classic." Spawn variance is not classic either so please no "not classic" arguments.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

* No guilds are allowed to have 5+ members camped in a raid zone or adjacent raid zone at any time with the intent to raid a target. The exception to this would be for those that are under level 50 and are experiencing.Please try to explain how in the hell you would enforce this as a GM. How would you expect players to call each other on this? What zones are adjacent to Hate? you can port there from anywhere (except Sky). How do you know what 5 other players' intent is? Maybe their guild is having Trivia Night in the Feerrott? Maybe they're playing roulette with /random?

Sorry bro, totally unenforceable and it also forbids legitimate activity.

[Noser]

I'm not really sure how you would enforce it and that is my biggest concern as well. I guess you may have to try and just honor it like you would a rotation or anything else? Adjacent zone rule wouldn't apply to hate or sky.

It's not all that hard to figure out if a guild has camped out in a raid zone or not.

[Barthorn]

great ideas, down with poop-socking please. random timers on each raid mob actually gives a chance for guilds to mobilize for a target instead of camping in the zone with full buffs or sitting on top of a spawn.

[Mardur]

This is a great idea, 40 people "camping efreeti" in solb hehe.

[Harrison]

I'm not really sure how you would enforce it and that is my biggest concern as well. I guess you may have to try and just honor it like you would a rotation or anything else? Adjacent zone rule wouldn't apply to hate or sky.

It's not all that hard to figure out if a guild has camped out in a raid zone or not.

You don't know what DA is, do you? ;)

[Noser]

Just trying to brainstorm some ideas to cut down on the poopsocking and get guilds raicing. The only other suggestion i really saw relating to this was to have bosses on completely random 7 day spawn timers.

You don't know what DA is, do you? ;)

No. What is DA? Divine Aura?

[Harrison]

The only way it's going to stop is if they outright ban players for camping like the no-talent retards they are.

Caught camping either the spawn point, or the zone itself? Banned.

Problem solved.

[Slathar]

The only way it's going to stop is if they outright ban players for camping like the no-talent retards they are.

Caught camping either the spawn point, or the zone itself? Banned.

Problem solved.

yea ban people for a practice that makes up almost entirely what everquest is predicated upon - camping things

good idea

[Bubbles]

Heck just have random spawn timer to pop all bosses/gods at once. That way no one could monopolize any one spawn and socialism wins!

there's nothing even remotely classic about the raid scene here anyways, might as well just do something whacky.

Or just keep em all depopped for a couple months just to whiz on peoples cheeerios and (more importantly) to make Kunark Beta more popular. Hell, that's not the worst idea....

[Kassel]

yea ban people for a practice that makes up almost entirely what everquest is predicated upon - camping things

lol

[karsten]

Or just keep em all depopped for a couple months just to whiz on peoples cheeerios and (more importantly) to make Kunark Beta more popular. Hell, that's not the worst idea....

yeah right like i would do that instead of farming planar armor that i covet so much

[Slathar]

lol

is your lol an agreement or disagreement

[john_savage1982]

it doesn't matter what the rules are the hardcores/no lifers, who pretend on the forums to be a super good looking dude with a hot girlfriend but really logs on to a 10 year old emulated game when they receive a text for a raid call, will always find a way to get their pixel gear that has +10 nerd-points so they can hang out in EC tunnel afk so people can inspect them and think "this person is cool" when in all reality the gear is big sign that says "I have no life".

I think everybody should give up on changing the rules. No rule will allow casuals to get god gear. Deal with it.

[Omnimorph]

The only way it's going to stop is if they outright ban players for camping like the no-talent retards they are.


Talent... hmmm... never heard someone say they have talent when it came to EQ...

Also pretty sure mobilising for a raid target doesn't display talent, just organization / numbers. Everyone having a WC portal cap etc.

EQ requires nothing but time and the tiniest amount of attention. You don't even have to be good at your class so long as someone else is there who knows what they're doing. It's the nature of the game, and if you want to "compete" with others than you have to commit more time than them.

Like instances or not, the reason they were brought in is because not everyone has the time to spend camping things for hours.

[BobSmith]

You know if you don't care about being "classic", you could make all of the raid bosses spawn the same way all the "rare" spawns work. You know, with a PH, random chance of the boss spawning, etc...

Killing bosses would still require tons of time camping. People who put in more time, would still come out ahead. But maybe it would be clearer who has the camp, and therefore gets first shot at the boss?

Meh...

[guineapig]

Heck just have random spawn timer to pop all bosses/gods at once. That way no one could monopolize any one spawn and socialism wins!

This is basically what I have been suggesting for many months (simulated patch day boss spawns). The devs have basically flat out said no and that it's a horrible idea.

[Dr4z3r]

Stop trying to fix the poopsocking with ridiculous rules. It won't work. No matter what you outlaw, the next-best thing will always just be the new best thing.

[Noser]

You know if you don't care about being "classic", you could make all of the raid bosses spawn the same way all the "rare" spawns work. You know, with a PH, random chance of the boss spawning, etc...

Killing bosses would still require tons of time camping. People who put in more time, would still come out ahead. But maybe it would be clearer who has the camp, and therefore gets first shot at the boss?

Meh...

There isn't really a need for farming trash to spawn a boss since a guild can just use the 15 rule to put 15 members on a spawn point to claim a boss (with the exception of CT)

I'm more interested in ideas that would encourage guilds to play the game rather than sit afk at a spawn point. Something like a random 7 day spawn timer that i saw Hobby mention in another thread. At the very least it would force a guild to pick one target to squat on if they really wanted to still poopsock.

[Noser]

Stop trying to fix the poopsocking with ridiculous rules. It won't work. No matter what you outlaw, the next-best thing will always just be the new best thing.

I disagree. The poopsocking is actually way better now than it was half a year ago. I think the current raid scene is better now, but there is always room for improvement. I don't see any point in just giving up.

[nalkin]

It seems like every guild wants to quit poopsocking... so whos still poopin?

[Dr4z3r]

I disagree. The poopsocking is actually way better now than it was half a year ago. I think the current raid scene is better now, but there is always room for improvement. I don't see any point in just giving up.

Sure, it might be better, but is it a result of rules governing how players can and cannot camp mobs?

I'm trying to tell you that that particular avenue just won't work. As long as one guild is Playing to Win*, every other guild is going to have to rise to that level in order to be able to compete.

*Capitalized because I'm referring to a specific attitude games. If you haven't heard of it, see: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

[guineapig]

I disagree. The poopsocking is actually way better now than it was half a year ago. I think the current raid scene is better now, but there is always room for improvement. I don't see any point in just giving up.

You know that Dojorn was being camped last night?
Despite the fact that his respawn time is known.
Things are not getting better.

[Jayko]

Dojorn was camped BECAUSE his spawn timer was known. He's campable with 15 on the spawnpoint, contrary to how both Div and IB and IB and DA had been competing over him the past few months, even though he's not an aggro mob. Dojo claim is now establish by just how long you feel like having 15 sit on spawn in advance of him actually popping, with no danger of it popping and killing you even though 15 is not even enough to make a reasonable attempt at killing him. Talk about incentive to afk on a spawn point. Easier to poopsock with known spawn timer, not harder.

A randomized full server spawn would only slightly change the dynamic. Both IB and DA would still camp their entire raids at either Solb or Perma, likely Perma, and then just port to mobs in order of quickest to longest kill afterwards. I'm pretty confident that either IB or DA could basically kill Nagafen or Vox, chock the other up to the other guild, and then port immediately to Hate and get to and kill Innoruuk before any other guild got to him even if they had immediately ported to Hate. Both of us simply mobilize too fast. Sure a guild could camp up there and snipe him, but sometimes that already happens with people poopsocking him, so there's no real change. Draco's his own story and CT is clearly not really sockable as you have to clear the zone.

Yes, I totally ignored the part about banning more than 5 in a zone because 1.) it's absolutely retarded to suppose that guilds will never clear fire giants or do planar clears and 2.) the GMs do not have the time, resources or interest in policing a rule like that.

-Jayko
50 Shaman, Dark Ascension

[maegi]

I agree with the random spawning of all bosses at once, classic or not. Sound like the best option to a bunch of greedy bastards

[fauxreigner]

I have an idea, but keep in mind that this is totally "unclassic." It may just be an outright terrible idea that will never be implemented, but as long as we're all on the same page, here it goes:

Spawn all of the big raid targets at once and create a website with a list of the big raid targets. Only give guild leaders handles/passwords for the website. Guild leaders can use the website to claim targets on a first-come, first-serve basis and no guild can lay claim to more than one target at a time. The website should manage this so that disputes over who actually has claimed what and when is not an issue.

If a guild lays claim to a raid mob first, then the guild can attempt to kill that raid mob for some limited period of time / until they kill the raid mob / until they give up. At that point they relinquish their claim on the raid mob and any other guild can lay claim to it. They can also claim any remaining raid mobs that have not yet been claimed. If any guild attempts to steal a target from the guild who's raiding it, they're disqualified from participating in the next cycle of spawns.

Details like the spawn time / frequency and what spawns are considered big raid targets are left up to those implementing the solution.

[Henini]

people bitching and moaning about raid targets = classic

so this is working as intended.

end of discussion!

[BobSmith]

Put all bosses (except CT?) on much shorter respawn timers and lower drop rates to compensate?

:P

[Noser]

Sure, it might be better, but is it a result of rules governing how players can and cannot camp mobs?

[/url][/i]

I believe that is exactly why the poopsockign declined. After they changed the 15 claim rule, guilds could no longer just sit in a zone. They had to sit on the spawn-point of the target.

Before that guilds were just sitting in zones afk for days trying to lay claim and block competition. Now we have guilds actually racing to an extent. There has been some pretty fun races to naggy, dracho, and CT. I think one day there was like 3 guilds trying to go for CT and it was pretty fun.

I'd just like to see it go a step further where guilds have a full on race instead of logging out in vox's cubby for example. I suppose it's silly to tell people "don't do that."

We could however put bosses on a more random spawn and it would nearly eliminate the poopsockery.

[guineapig]

I think one day there was like 3 guilds trying to go for CT and it was pretty fun.


One day? There have been 3+ guilds racing to CT on many, many occasions. Long before most of the newer guilds even existed, including DA. :p

(Sorry to derail but the raid scene on this server is much older than the current IB/DA rivalry.)

[Noser]

I meant since they changed the 15 rule. I was in transcendence back when IB, trans, and divinity were the raiding guilds.

[guineapig]

Ah, my apologies.