Can anything be done about multiquesting?

[renordw]

I've had this conversation before with some of my friends here, but I realize that the sentiment may be more widespread than I originally thought.

Multiquesting makes things less available to less established players, and encourages RMT.

I welcome any discussion.

[katrik]

shits classic

[renordw]

shits classic

RMT is classic too

[katrik]

RMT is classic too

Yes sir. I'm strangely ok with this.

[Trollhide]

RMT is classic too
So is getting banned for it.

If something is less available to you because you are less established, establish yourself.

If you want welfare shit, go play World of Warcraft.


e: explain your logic behind the claim that MQing encourages RMT? How does it encourage RMT more than farming/selling tradable items? Hypothetical scenario: remove NO DROP tag from all MQable items: what has changed with regards to selling/buying/ability to complete quests?

[renordw]

So is getting banned for it.

If something is less available to you because you are less established, establish yourself.

If you want welfare shit, go play World of Warcraft.

I don't really play here much (20-30 min at a time), because I can't honestly give up my entire life to get an epic. I got pretty far, and realized the next tier of advancement would require more time than I can put in.

[renordw]

So is getting banned for it.

If something is less available to you because you are less established, establish yourself.

If you want welfare shit, go play World of Warcraft.


e: explain your logic behind the claim that MQing encourages RMT? How does it encourage RMT more than farming/selling tradable items? Hypothetical scenario: remove NO DROP tag from all MQable items: what has changed with regards to selling/buying?

That's one way to do it, but another way that actually makes lore sense would be to just make them NO DROP, period.

[Trollhide]

I don't really play here much (20-30 min at a time), because I can't honestly give up my entire life to get an epic
That's cool, man. Some people play casually, and some play hardcore. One of those groups are not going to get BiS gear, but it's still possible to enjoy EQ without it.

[Alanus]

At this point, removing MQ would serve no purpose. The cat's out of the bag since it's been going on for years already

[MoleUK]

That's one way to do it, but another way that actually makes lore sense would be to just make them NO DROP, period.

A free market is good game design.

Game wasn't designed to be stagnant though.

[renordw]

A free market is good game design.

Game wasn't designed to be stagnant though.

Then making the MQ items droppable would drop the prices like crazy, since you wouldn't need several people to assist with a turn in, such as pieces of the pipe for the monk epic. It just feels like some bastardized middle ground.

[MoleUK]

Then making the MQ items droppable would drop the prices like crazy, since you wouldn't need several people to assist with a turn in, such as pieces of the pipe for the monk epic. It just feels like some bastardized middle ground.

Different kind of stagnant. Same people.

In theory there's good reason it's MQable, opens up epics etc to those who don't have the time to make those camps.

In practice you have a monopoly. Shits fucked up.

[renordw]

Different kind of stagnant. Same people.

In theory there's good reason it's MQable, opens up epics etc to those who don't have the time to make those camps.

In practice you have a monopoly.

What's the argument against making the NO DROP items tradeable?

[MoleUK]

What's the argument against making the NO DROP items tradeable?

The same people will camp them.

It might make things a bit better. It doesn't address the problem directly.

Classic is cancer, in this instance.

[renordw]

The same people will camp them.

It might make things a bit better. It doesn't address the problem directly.

Classic is cancer, in this instance.

I played on the Firiona Vie server on live, and I remember there was nothing that was no drop, even epics were tradeable.

[Trollhide]

What's the argument against making the NO DROP items tradeable?
Proposed this hypothetical on page 1. I'm still waiting to hear what change this would create with regard to selling/buying/completing quests. I'm pretty sure the answer is "nothing".

[renordw]

Proposed this hypothetical on page 1. I'm still waiting to hear what change this would create with regard to selling/buying/completing quests. I'm pretty sure the answer is "nothing".

I'm not against either solution, make the NO DROP items totally tradeable, or make them truly NO DROP. In either way, I think it would result in a reduction in hoarding.

[MoleUK]

I played on the Firiona Vie server on live, and I remember there was nothing that was no drop, even epics were tradeable.

Was FV timelocked to a specific expansion, never to move forward?

P99 is unique. In good ways and bad.

One of the bad is the economy. It's just fucked.

I say this as a newbie with little experience in game, but it's quite obvious imo.

[MoleUK]

I'm not against either solution, make the NO DROP items totally tradeable, or make them truly NO DROP. In either way, I think it would result in a reduction in hoarding.

Yes, either is better than the situation as is.

[renordw]

Was FV timelocked to a specific expansion, never to move forward?

P99 is unique. In good ways and bad.

One of the bad is the economy. It's just fucked.

I say this as a newbie with little experience in game, but it's quite obvious imo.

No, FV wasn't locked. I've been here for about 7 years now, and you're totally right. But it's not just the economy, it's all the people who hit 60 using bard powerlevels and Chardok. I think the way things function now is nearly optimal, except for MQ obviously. I think a new server might be the perfect solution to the economy.

[MoleUK]

No, FV wasn't locked. I've been here for about 7 years now, and you're totally right. But it's not just the economy, it's all the people who hit 60 using bard powerlevels and Chardok. I think the way things function now is nearly optimal, except for MQ obviously. I think a new server might be the perfect solution to the economy.

The economy is just what I've experienced. I imagine the raiding is much worse. Too top heavy, a recipe for drama.

A new server would solve a lot, at least for some years. Eventually the same problem will always pop up, but if it takes 5 years then it's not a huge problem.

Of course a new server causes it's own problems, seems like less overall though. P99 already has a shelf span before it goes bad, so why not make the best of it.

[renordw]

The economy is just what I've experienced. I imagine the raiding is much worse. Too top heavy, a recipe for drama.

A new server would solve a lot, at least for some years. Eventually the same problem will always pop up, but if it takes 5 years then it's not a huge problem.

Of course a new server causes it's own problems, seems like less overall though. P99 already has a shelf span before it goes bad, so why not make the best of it.

Raiding is definitely worse, and I blame it on Chardok and bards. I think there virtually no organic level 60s

[Daldaen]

I played on the Firiona Vie server on live, and I remember there was nothing that was no drop, even epics were tradeable.

You remember incorrectly. Epics at no point on FV were tradeable outside of the Epic 2.5 pages from Demiplane.

MQing is classic. Either find the camp open (for most epics this isn't unreasonable to suggest), or buy the MQs / pieces you need.

Bard, Necro, Wizard, Warrior, Shadowknight epics will always be locked down until they realize it's best to just put a 2 hour respawn on all raid mobs so people can have their own fun on their own terms.

[Trollhide]

Making no drop quest items tradable would have no effect. Disabling MQ would make certain quest rewards easier to get for some people, and more difficult for others. Everybody can farm plat, not everybody can assemble a raid force or commit the block of time to join one. Neither scenario is classic.

It really sounds to me like people complaining about this particular issue just want to sacrifice classic aspects in order to make the game easier. This is not something I can get behind and is not in keeping with the entire reason for P99's existence. The difficulty and sandbox environment is what has kept me coming back to EQ over the past 17 years. If easy is what you are looking for, there are thousands of other games out there, but please dont try to ruin this project for those of us that play BECAUSE it is classic.

[renordw]

You remember incorrectly. Epics at no point on FV were tradeable outside of the Epic 2.5 pages from Demiplane.

MQing is classic. Either find the camp open (for most epics this isn't unreasonable to suggest), or buy the MQs / pieces you need.

Bard, Necro, Wizard, Warrior, Shadowknight epics will always be locked down until they realize it's best to just put a 2 hour respawn on all raid mobs so people can have their own fun on their own terms.

Maybe the epics weren't tradeable, but everything else was.

[renordw]

Making no drop quest items tradable would have no effect. Disabling MQ would make certain quest rewards easier to get for some people, and more difficult for others. Everybody can farm plat, not everybody can assemble a raid force or commit the block of time to join one. Neither scenario is classic.

It really sounds to me like people complaining about this particular issue just want to sacrifice classic aspects in order to make the game easier. This is not something I can get behind and is not in keeping with the entire reason for P99's existence. The difficulty and sandbox environment is what has kept me coming back to EQ over the past 17 years. If easy is what you are looking for, there are thousands of other games out there, but please dont try to ruin this project for those of us that play BECAUSE it is classic.

For me, it's not a question of classic mechanics, it's high end guilds that hoard pieces.

[Cfullard]

I think a new server might be the perfect solution to the economy. Wait, what? I'm confused.... how would this solve the bard powerleveling and Chardok groups? I mean yes when it goes live of course such things will not be available but over time it will be right back to square one. In my opinion this would be a stop gap, not a solution.

[renordw]

Wait, what? I'm confused.... how would this solve the bard powerleveling and Chardok groups? I mean yes when it goes live of course such things will not be available but over time it will be right back to square one. In my opinion this would be a stop gap, not a solution.

PBAOE only hits 25 mobs now, although I think it should be like 8. But at least it's not infinite like it was for years. It's not worth it to do Chardok anymore, and bard powerlevels are seriously reduced in their efficacy.

[MoleUK]

For me, it's not a question of classic mechanics, it's high end guilds that hoard pieces.

Seems that way.

[MoleUK]

Wait, what? I'm confused.... how would this solve the bard powerleveling and Chardok groups? I mean yes when it goes live of course such things will not be available but over time it will be right back to square one. In my opinion this would be a stop gap, not a solution.

If things go back to the way they were in the beginning, yes.

If certain things are altered notsomuch.

Even if they're not though, it stretches things out. Like I said, there's a shelflife either way, which option extends it?

If nobody cares about the lifespan of the server, it doesn't really matter.

[not alla]

I don't really play here much (20-30 min at a time), because I can't honestly give up my entire life to get an epic. I got pretty far, and realized the next tier of advancement would require more time than I can put in.

play on red server, epics require zero investment and are readily available.

[Baler]

shits classic

However if nilbog decides otherwise...

[Triiz]

I don't really play here much (20-30 min at a time), because I can't honestly give up my entire life to get an epic. I got pretty far, and realized the next tier of advancement would require more time than I can put in.

Then what would banning MQ's change for you? What epic mob are you after that you could log on, kill, loot, and log off within 20-30 minutes? EQ is, and always will be, a time sink. Those of us who don't have 16 hours a day to play will rarely get the very top end items, same as it was back in the day.

White dragonscale for bard epic is droppable/tradeable, still sells for over 200k. On the other hand, a rogue can buy an entire epic MQ for less than 30k.

If anything it seems like a lot of people are able to get their epics solely because of MQ. Any shaman can farm seafury's 20-30 min at a time and save up money for a tear MQ for their epic, eventually. On the other hand, not every shaman could get the force together (especially in 20-30 minutes) to kill the golem's in Fear to get the tear themselves.

Most of us play p99 for a close to classic EQ experience, including the bullshit that was part of classic. Most of the forum posts, including this one, "I have this problem, so let's nerf this and that will fix it" would completely change the game.

[Triiz]

It really sounds to me like people complaining about this particular issue just want to sacrifice classic aspects in order to make the game easier. This is not something I can get behind and is not in keeping with the entire reason for P99's existence. The difficulty and sandbox environment is what has kept me coming back to EQ over the past 17 years. If easy is what you are looking for, there are thousands of other games out there, but please dont try to ruin this project for those of us that play BECAUSE it is classic.

Didn't read this post before I replied, but this ^^.

I want TOV loot, but I don't have the time it requires to obtain it. Can we make it so TOV items drop off decaying skeletons so they are obtainable for me? Kthx

[Trollhide]

Didn't read this post before I replied, but this ^^.

I want TOV loot, but I don't have the time it requires to obtain it. Can we make it so TOV items drop off decaying skeletons so they are obtainable for me? Kthx
inb4 the inevitable "Forming a crew to monopolize decaying skeletons permanently" thread

[feanan]

Funny how some confuse "difficulty" with "timesink"

It's really "difficult" to sit at a spawn point for hours/days

[Trollhide]

Funny how some confuse "difficulty" with "timesink"

It's really "difficult" to sit at a spawn point for hours/days
Well it can be difficult to find that kind of time, I guess. Maybe instead of difficult I should have said unforgiving. Equally funny is how people confuse "want" with "deserve".

[fastboy21]

Obviously there is a way to fix the "problem" you described OP. The devs with a few easy key strokes could disable MQing. Certainly, they could do it in a few minutes with the handful of the most popular MQ'able items in the game (see the EC tunnel if you want to know which they are).

The question ought to be should it be changed?, not can anything be done about MQing? , as the thread was titled by the OP.

Frankly, its a classic EQ server. I find it unusual that Nilbog and others would have invested thousands of hours of work to make a classic EQ server just to intentionally make some things unclassic. The point of the server wasn't to make classic EQ into a better game, it was to recreate classic EQ with all its foibles and issues included.

Others can disagree, and certainly do.

[Dreenk317]

Frankly, its a classic EQ server. I find it unusual that Nilbog and others would have invested thousands of hours of work to make a classic EQ server just to intentionally make some things unclassic. The point of the server wasn't to make classic EQ into a better game, it was to recreate classic EQ with all its foibles and issues included.

Others can disagree, and certainly do.


I totally agree with you, but on that note, they've already proven they are willing to make unclassic changes. AoE nerf for one. Binding in certain raid zones. Mobs in certain raid zones where there were none on live, causing some guilds to fight raid mobs at zone lines. Non classic spawns on some mobs. Etc. so why not make some other changes to make the game more fun, not easier, but more fun. Either contemplate some additional changes to make the server population happy or go true, pure, classic. As long as they walk the middle ground, both sides will never cease to yell.

[renordw]

Obviously there is a way to fix the "problem" you described OP. The devs with a few easy key strokes could disable MQing. Certainly, they could do it in a few minutes with the handful of the most popular MQ'able items in the game (see the EC tunnel if you want to know which they are).

The question ought to be should it be changed?, not can anything be done about MQing? , as the thread was titled by the OP.

Frankly, its a classic EQ server. I find it unusual that Nilbog and others would have invested thousands of hours of work to make a classic EQ server just to intentionally make some things unclassic. The point of the server wasn't to make classic EQ into a better game, it was to recreate classic EQ with all its foibles and issues included.

Others can disagree, and certainly do.

I think the main thing that everybody is missing is that by virtue of us being in Velious in year 7, things are not classic. We will likely stay in Velious for the foreseeable future.

I do not run the server, and I don't pretend to know what their intentions are, but I can only speak for myself. If I were running a server that had this much stagnation (term used neutrally) I would try to fix some of the things that seem to break important aspects of the game, like the economy or the raid scene.

Obviously, it's no longer classic, but I think it's possible to implement classic-like changes that the original devs would have implemented, had the timeline been like the one we have on P99.

[renordw]

Actually, I think we're approaching the point where a decision has to be made about whether the game should "feel classic" or have every single "classic technicality"

For me, the game no longer "feels" classic, obviously.

There are some tweaks that could make it "feel classic" at the sacrifice of "classic technicalities."

The prime example is PBAoE nerf, it was phased out to make the game play more like we did in classic, and it feels more classic now, in the sense that 60s aren't being pumped out from level 1 every single day.

[fastboy21]

I think the main thing that everybody is missing is that by virtue of us being in Velious in year 7, things are not classic. We will likely stay in Velious for the foreseeable future.

I do not run the server, and I don't pretend to know what their intentions are, but I can only speak for myself. If I were running a server that had this much stagnation (term used neutrally) I would try to fix some of the things that seem to break important aspects of the game, like the economy or the raid scene.

Obviously, it's no longer classic, but I think it's possible to implement classic-like changes that the original devs would have implemented, had the timeline been like the one we have on P99.

Its not so much that folks are missing the fact that we are off timeline. Its an obvious issue in the history of p99. Its also worth noting, that if they had been on timeline we would currently be in year 5 of velious. So it was going to get this way sooner or later just by merit of the server lasting as long as it has.

The problems we have here are that we are playing on a static (not stagnant) server. It can't go on forever, at some point the only real way to make it classic again is to hit the reset button or launch a new iteration.

[paulgiamatti]

Actually, I think we're approaching the point where a decision has to be made about whether the game should "feel classic" or have every single "classic technicality"

P99 has already made that decision, as you allude to - the AoE nerf, the epic level restriction, etc.

For me, the game no longer "feels" classic, obviously.

There are some tweaks that could make it "feel classic" at the sacrifice of "classic technicalities."

Not everyone's experience of "classic" is the same - this comes up a lot because P99 is essentially a blue server, which attracts blue players, but the creators primarily played on PvP servers. What they wanted to create was a blue server with the competitiveness of a red server, and I'd say they've more or less succeeded. Just like it's not the same '90s everyone's going back to in their head - you liked Nirvana, but never listened Third Eye Blind, etc. The classic experience on red servers was a lot different than the blue classic experience - multiquesting and item recharging et al were more ubiquitous, competition was more extreme, and people were less friendly.

[renordw]

P99 has already made that decision, as you allude to - the AoE nerf, the epic level restriction, etc.



Not everyone's experience of "classic" is the same - this comes up a lot because P99 is essentially a blue server, which attracts blue players, but the creators primarily played on PvP servers. What they wanted to create was a blue server with the competitiveness of a red server, and I'd say they've more or less succeeded. Just like it's not the same '90s everyone's going back to in their head - you liked Nirvana, but never listened Third Eye Blind, etc. The classic experience on red servers was a lot different than the blue classic experience - multiquesting and item recharging et al were more ubiquitous, competition was more extreme, and people were less friendly.

About that item recharging, how is that not a huge exploit?

[paulgiamatti]

It is. Just like multiquesting.

But I see what you're saying - why nerf AoE and epics but not multiquesting and item recharging? It all just comes back to GM discretion, but it's definitely worth discussing - I don't want to shut down the conversation or anything. Tons of people were saying the exact same thing about epics before those were nerfed - "it's too far along in the timeline, not classic, will never happen", etc. Anything can happen on a whim on P99, and the server sways to the whims of lord nilbog.

[fastboy21]

It depends how you define exploit.

It's true some classic "mechanics" were really just unintended features/bugs that players figured out how to use in creative and emergent ways---sometimes in game defining ways, so much so that the original devs left them in game and decided to developed the game around them. We know this mostly by statements that the original and early teams made about the game.

As far as I'm concerned, for all intents and purposes on p99, classic eq means exactly whatever Nilbog/Rogean say it is. They were forced to make choices based on available information, limitations of the client, and their own logical interpretation of the vision they have for p99. Its their play pen.

[paulgiamatti]

It's true some classic "mechanics" were really just unintended features/bugs that players figured out how to use in creative and emergent ways---sometimes in game defining ways, so much so that the original devs left them in game and decided to developed the game around them.

Well yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with the definition of "exploit". I mean, of course you were supposed to be able to buy and sell charged and uncharged items using vendors, but there's no question about what the exploit is.

Multiquesting, on the other hand, is entirely an exploit - it was not an intended mechanic in any way. Whether they realized this at some point and decided to just leave it in is another topic, but it was absolutely not the original intention.

[Dreenk317]

As far as I'm concerned, for all intents and purposes on p99, classic eq means exactly whatever Nilbog/Rogean say it is. They were forced to make choices based on available information, limitations of the client, and their own logical interpretation of the vision they have for p99. Its their play pen.

Yes and no. Had they just said "this is our server, it is how it is, we're trying to make it classic like". Then that would all be peachy keen and groovy. Fact is though. They have come out and said that there whole goal is to make this as classic as possible. Nil if has even said he wants it to be like a museum to the game he played and loved. Which I think is awesome. But once they said it's classic or die. And defined there era of classic as being old world, kunark, and velious only. Then they opened it up to the public and the public opinions of what is classic. The only way to get through the onslaught from both sides is to never waver from your goal of a pure, classic as it was in 1999 server. And fact is, in 1999 I could bard kite whole zones with a half decent computer and a steady internet connection. A level 1 cleric with its epic could clicky 96% Rez his buddies in west Freeport. The boats actually came every twenty minutes. Hide/sneak combo wasn't an auto memblur. And there was only one, I repeat ONE chat window for everything. They should either go all the way to pure classic. Or publish a list of the non classic changes they intend to make. No more of this "were a pure classic server, except for..... this..... and that.... and that thing over there..... and maybe that other thing we are gonna think up later.

[renordw]

Yes and no. Had they just said "this is our server, it is how it is, we're trying to make it classic like". Then that would all be peachy keen and groovy. Fact is though. They have come out and said that there whole goal is to make this as classic as possible. Nil if has even said he wants it to be like a museum to the game he played and loved. Which I think is awesome. But once they said it's classic or die. And defined there era of classic as being old world, kunark, and velious only. Then they opened it up to the public and the public opinions of what is classic. The only way to get through the onslaught from both sides is to never waver from your goal of a pure, classic as it was in 1999 server. And fact is, in 1999 I could bard kite whole zones with a half decent computer and a steady internet connection. A level 1 cleric with its epic could clicky 96% Rez his buddies in west Freeport. The boats actually came every twenty minutes. Hide/sneak combo wasn't an auto memblur. And there was only one, I repeat ONE chat window for everything. They should either go all the way to pure classic. Or publish a list of the non classic changes they intend to make. No more of this "were a pure classic server, except for..... this..... and that.... and that thing over there..... and maybe that other thing we are gonna think up later.

The level 1 with the epic speaks to the "classic feel" over the "classic mechanics." There were simply not that many level 1 clerics with the means to have a click stick, so the devs here had to make a creative solution to make the game play more like it did in classic, despite sacrificing some of the mechanics.

The bard AoE thing, I feel like everybody has amnesia. Doesn't anybody remember swarm kiting, where you would charm one of the things in your swarm, and send it in to get slaughtered by the rest?

I also don't remember the mechanics of how it worked, but on my druid sometimes things would attack me in Qeynos Hills and bears would attack those things to help me out.

[Dreenk317]

The level 1 with the epic speaks to the "classic feel" over the "classic mechanics." There were simply not that many level 1 clerics with the means to have a click stick, so the devs here had to make a creative solution to make the game play more like it did in classic, despite sacrificing some of the mechanics.

The bard AoE thing, I feel like everybody has amnesia. Doesn't anybody remember swarm kiting, where you would charm one of the things in your swarm, and send it in to get slaughtered by the rest?

Ya I get it. As much as I want to MQ an epic to a low or cleric, I get why I can't. But at the same time. By making this change, and others. They have made the server not classic. Simple as that.

And now that they've made it not classic, intentionally, of there own free will. It opens the door for all sorts of posts like this. Not that I'm against them. But do think it's silly how many hobby without even a comment from the devs. When it's the devs who opened the door in the first place.

Edit: and yes, I remember classic swarm kiting. Was my favorite tactic for leveling my bard on live during kunark. But for some reason they can't get social agro to work right here. So ya, aoe kiting is how bards roll in p99. At least the ones that can't group.

[fastboy21]

Well yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with the definition of "exploit". I mean, of course you were supposed to be able to buy and sell charged and uncharged items using vendors, but there's no question about what the exploit is.

Multiquesting, on the other hand, is entirely an exploit - it was not an intended mechanic in any way. Whether they realized this at some point and decided to just leave it in is another topic, but it was absolutely not the original intention.

Exactly my point PG. MQ'ing became part of EQ for a very long time. Content was even designed after launch to take advantage of players abilities to MQ. It is a perfect example of the game mechanics being used by players in unintended and advantage ways (the definition of exploit as I know it) that actually became a regular part of the game design. Same with item recharging.

Whether or not these types of situations are properly "classic" is a play by play call that Nilbog and Rogean and other devs have made as they created p99. The difference between "emergent game play" and "exploit" is really kind of subjective.

[snead]

Exactly my point PG. MQ'ing became part of EQ for a very long time. Content was even designed after launch to take advantage of players abilities to MQ. It is a perfect example of the game mechanics being used by players in unintended and advantage ways (the definition of exploit as I know it) that actually became a regular part of the game design. Same with item recharging.

Whether or not these types of situations are properly "classic" is a play by play call that Nilbog and Rogean and other devs have made as they created p99. The difference between "emergent game play" and "exploit" is really kind of subjective.

why dont all you nerds just tweet the king nerd who can make the final ruling? https://twitter.com/Aradune

[paulgiamatti]

Exactly my point PG. MQ'ing became part of EQ for a very long time. Content was even designed after launch to take advantage of players abilities to MQ. It is a perfect example of the game mechanics being used by players in unintended and advantage ways (the definition of exploit as I know it) that actually became a regular part of the game design. Same with item recharging.

Whether or not these types of situations are properly "classic" is a play by play call that Nilbog and Rogean and other devs have made as they created p99. The difference between "emergent game play" and "exploit" is really kind of subjective.

Yeah, that's a good point - when I think of a game exploit I'm thinking more of actual mechanics that are designed to function in a specific way. In other words, bugs in the game's design that are then used advantageously and exploited. I'd probably make the case that a bug is a given or a requirement for something to be considered an exploit - otherwise it's just gaming the system, or playing prodigiously well, or "emergent gameplay", or something.

For example, a pathing exploit utilizes a bug involving pathing nodes and AI mechanics that could be corrected for, even though everything else the exploiter does is perfectly legitimate. The bards in Qeynos that could be slowly dotted to death from the city ramparts involved a bug where the NPCs didn't execute an AI script, or if they did they'd indefinitely run around and never find a way to reach the player - another pathing bug, for all intents and purpses.

[paulgiamatti]

why dont all you nerds just tweet the king nerd who can make the final ruling? https://twitter.com/Aradune

lol, that close-up mugshot always kills me - someone really needs to have a talk with him about that.

[fadetree]

It's true, he looks like someone trying to look cool. Which is never cool. I love me some Aradune tho, and I have high hopes for Run of the Walking or Stand of the Unseated or whatever it's called. Oh yeah, Rise of the Fallen.

[Ikon]

I played on the Firiona Vie server on live, and I remember there was nothing that was no drop, even epics were tradeable.
There were certain things on Firiona Vie that were not droppable while I played. Epics were one of those things.

I bought Primal weapons and Coldain shawls but I had to do my own chanter epic which I was very happy about, the reward of getting finally (took 15 visits to Hate to get one piece) was insane.

At some stage I think the developers (if they still even care after this lone) need to look at some of the mistakes made on this server and correct them.

It was imo a mistake to allow soulfires to be clickable from inventory for so long. They have remained clickable from inventory on this server for far longer than they remained clickable on live. The best solution would have been to set two conditions for these types of items: Soulfire clickable? As long as progression to nerf not reached OR As long a period hasn't expired equal to or greater than on live. Its not classic to nerf before progression BUT its not classic to allow it to remain longer than it remained on live.

In terms of quality of server and keeping the server alive I think it would be useful to weigh up the benefits to the server of allowing almost every MQ that has any value to be perma-farmed against the enjoy-ability of the server for people starting out. In other words:

Is classic MQ ability more important than the ability of new players and older players to re-experience classic everquest. If the exploitation (I'm using this is the not MMO sense) of farmable mobs is the defining memory of your old live server then that's probably a yes. In my memory farming Jboots was tough but it was tough because we didn't know the secrets to the AC and we had competition mostly from other 30ish players also looking to get their jboots. And on my server the RoA was droppable.

[Alanus]

It's true, he looks like someone trying to look cool. Which is never cool. I love me some Aradune tho, and I have high hopes for Run of the Walking or Stand of the Unseated or whatever it's called. Oh yeah, Rise of the Fallen.

I've found that usually people with goatees are trying to look cool or bad ass

[renordw]

Yeah, that's a good point - when I think of a game exploit I'm thinking more of actual mechanics that are designed to function in a specific way. In other words, bugs in the game's design that are then used advantageously and exploited. I'd probably make the case that a bug is a given or a requirement for something to be considered an exploit - otherwise it's just gaming the system, or playing prodigiously well, or "emergent gameplay", or something.

For example, a pathing exploit utilizes a bug involving pathing nodes and AI mechanics that could be corrected for, even though everything else the exploiter does is perfectly legitimate. The bards in Qeynos that could be slowly dotted to death from the city ramparts involved a bug where the NPCs didn't execute an AI script, or if they did they'd indefinitely run around and never find a way to reach the player - another pathing bug, for all intents and purpses.

Definitely "emergent gameplay." I don't think anybody with a straight face could sit down and tell me the devs intentionally designed merchants to recharge items because they can't store in their databases the charges on multiple copies.

Same with items that are clickable from inventory, like SoulFire. It's totally game-changing and really not at all how the devs intended.

For some reason this kind of "emergent gameplay" really bothers me. While I realize this is a shitty argument, it really fucks with my immersion - in the sense that "classic everquest" shouldn't be about a growing list of exploits that the original devs couldn't change because they aren't around anymore.


Is classic MQ ability more important than the ability of new players and older players to re-experience classic everquest. If the exploitation (I'm using this is the not MMO sense) of farmable mobs is the defining memory of your old live server then that's probably a yes. In my memory farming Jboots was tough but it was tough because we didn't know the secrets to the AC and we had competition mostly from other 30ish players also looking to get their jboots. And on my server the RoA was droppable.

Right, and the devs here changed the South Ro Ancient Cyclops because it was too arbitrary (just like how it was in classic). Now it can spawn at any point in the zone, and that's not a classic mechanic, but it does "feel" more classic because of the sense of wonder.

[Gumbo]

I always find it funny when polls are made or threads are made about people complaining about MQ's but they never bother to do a search on Multi-Questing and see the post made by Rogean himself, about adding it to the system over six years ago...

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17742

He wrote a template for it and the first thing he added it to was Hasten Bootstrutter for the Journeyman Boots quest. He even asked which quests or epics it should be implemented into.

[Trollhide]

I always find it funny when polls are made or threads are made about people complaining about MQ's but they never bother to do a search on Multi-Questing and see the post made by Rogean himself, about adding it to the system over six years ago...

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17742

He wrote a template for it and the first thing he added it to was Hasten Bootstrutter for the Journeyman Boots quest. He even asked which quests or epics it should be implemented into.
tfw your entire shitty whinethread falls apart because the server owner deliberately coded it to work that way :rolleyes:

[Computer Man]

I always find it funny when polls are made or threads are made about people complaining about MQ's but they never bother to do a search on Multi-Questing and see the post made by Rogean himself, about adding it to the system over six years ago...

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17742

He wrote a template for it and the first thing he added it to was Hasten Bootstrutter for the Journeyman Boots quest. He even asked which quests or epics it should be implemented into.

Rogean does a lot

[paulgiamatti]

*did

[Ikon]

tfw your entire shitty whinethread falls apart because the server owner deliberately coded it to work that way :rolleyes:
Six years ago. Back before you had a large number of 60's cockblocking almost every MQáble epic spawn and valuable MQ camp in the game.

Rogean also planned for a classic EQ experience, some of those classic mechanics didn't make it into the game making farming and cockblocking trivial.

Now the server has almost reached completion, the question is not what Rogean said 6 years ago but rather does he want it to remain the way it is, a massive cockblocking farm fest which benefits only a small % of the server population or something different?

Neither you or I can answer that one. All I want is a new green server (preferably with modified MQ code) but I'd settle just for a fresh server.

[Canelek]

Either hardcore that shit or shut the fuck up. This game has never been about the casuals, and shouldn't be.

EQ is a fucking riot if you don't worry about stupid shit like the neckbeards do. If you can't camp something like Stormfeather by yourself for 18 hours, watching that stupid boat in the background that you want to believe is the stupid fucking bird, then you cannot hang with this game.

So, choose to ignore the noise and enjoy the game. It does not have to be a job. Maybe it was (for most of us) from 1999-2002 or so, but is that the reason you came back? To be a guild officer and field retarded entitlement complaints from assholes you did not know?

THIS IS WHY THINGS LIKE WoW HAPPENED.

-Malite

[maskedmelon]

The rot of self interest ravages the fair form of our dear Elfsim beneath the obscuring aegis of stupidity and faux equanimity. We might know but one salvation: violence. May the bright light of savagery burn rend the taint from our beloved Norrath!

May the Lords of the Staff lead our way in brutality. Let us fear one another's bloodied names as much as we fear the wrath of our Dear Sir Ken! Let us embrace true equanimity with adoption of uniform penalty: death and divestment! Let our Dear Lord Sir Ken mete bitter justice upon all transgressors alike with the redeeming Touch of Death! Let the corpses lay open in he Commonlands for all to know their shame and for the nooblets to share in their wealth. Let no item, no matter it's sacred nature, remain soul bound to such transgressors.

Savagery Save Us!!!

[lurk]

MQ is very classic and a lot of time was put in to make it work on P99. Either man up and put in the time to camp the item. Like everyone else does whether they sell it or not. Or buy the MQ. But stop with the tears. There are many mechanics on this server that are not classic and this ain't one

[Ikon]

Either hardcore that shit or shut the fuck up. This game has never been about the casuals, and shouldn't be.

EQ is a fucking riot if you don't worry about stupid shit like the neckbeards do. If you can't camp something like Stormfeather by yourself for 18 hours, watching that stupid boat in the background that you want to believe is the stupid fucking bird, then you cannot hang with this game.

So, choose to ignore the noise and enjoy the game. It does not have to be a job. Maybe it was (for most of us) from 1999-2002 or so, but is that the reason you came back? To be a guild officer and field retarded entitlement complaints from assholes you did not know?

THIS IS WHY THINGS LIKE WoW HAPPENED.

-Malite
The game has always been about casuals. Casuals are what paid for wages and servers. That's why EQ died and casual games like WoW were born - basically developers saw that rewarding the 5% at the top and letting them screw the 95% who just wanted to have fun was a really bad idea.

So in a sense, if the 5% hadn't been selfish morons, not only consuming the highest content but farming and refusing to allow the other 95% of the population the content they themselves now found trivial everyone might have been happy and WoW might not have been as terribad as it was...

:D

*tongue in cheek post*

[lurk]

Good point. But this is free and essentially a non profit server. There is no base to cater to. Only a hobbyist attempt at creating a classic server. Just because 15 years of knowledge changes the dynamic doesnt give you a reason to cry. Literally everyquest short of Vp key, st key, and velious king quests can be done with a small amount of shit geared players. Kill the mob, buy the mq or stop bitching

Nilbog won't budge on MQ and even if he did you would eventually be here complaining that some quest item that your buddy needed rotted

[Thugnuts]

THIS IS WHY THINGS LIKE WoW HAPPENED.


You mean that one game from 2004 that's the #2 highest selling PC game of all time, and still the #1 mmorpg on the global market 12 years after its first release? :eek:

[Ikon]

Good point. But this is free and essentially a non profit server. There is no base to cater to. Only a hobbyist attempt at creating a classic server. Just because 15 years of knowledge changes the dynamic doesnt give you a reason to cry. Literally everyquest short of Vp key, st key, and velious king quests can be done with a small amount of shit geared players. Kill the mob, buy the mq or stop bitching

Nilbog won't budge on MQ and even if he did you would eventually be here complaining that some quest item that your buddy needed rotted
Don't get your panties in a knot. Free or not they've put a lot of work into it. I think its likely they'd like the server to be enjoyable for everybody. The original planes are nowhere near high end, they're for up and coming guilds to gear up so they can go on and do bigger and better things. Sitting your alts there and farming the minis and then charging half a million pp for items is a bitch act no matter how you look at it.

Items inflated that high with tactics like that are what leads to RMT, it leads to people quitting and the server getting a dirty name. It would take the average non-farmer around 1000 hours of playtime to afford half a million plat, if they played 2 hours per day and earned 500pp per hour that'd be around 2.5 years to save it.

If Rogean wants a server where nobody can accomplish anything without paying off some unemployed guy trying to make a buck then that's his choice but I doubt thats what he wants.

[lurk]

What the farmers are doing is easy. They are killing the PHs and coming back 8 hours later to kill the next spawn. Thats kind of how it works. If you want to compete then atleast realize these mobs arent spawning themselves 90% of the time.

I see so much hate on uber guilds acting like this small group is special because theyre BIS or they are RMT. But the truth is anyone with the the right make up of skilled players can do what they do and enjoy doing it plat or not. Doing tough content with low numbers is really all there is to do at the high end other than raid. Would you rather the qiest items rot?

[fadetree]

tsmis (they should make it so) that once you gain enough exp to ding 61 you go back to 1. The circle of life.

[Ikon]

What the farmers are doing is easy. They are killing the PHs and coming back 8 hours later to kill the next spawn. Thats kind of how it works. If you want to compete then atleast realize these mobs arent spawning themselves 90% of the time.

I see so much hate on uber guilds acting like this small group is special because theyre BIS or they are RMT. But the truth is anyone with the the right make up of skilled players can do what they do and enjoy doing it plat or not. Doing tough content with low numbers is really all there is to do at the high end other than raid. Would you rather the qiest items rot?
I'm sure they'd rather get their epics the way the game was designed for them to get their epics - Its not called EverBuyYourMultiQuest its Everquest. They wouldn't be rotting if the mobs were up and people respected each other enough to do what most servers on live did and that's create lists and rotations.

Pretending they wouldnt whine and cry, train each other, scream and rage quit if it was happening to them won't help, I could post a number of salt filled links to threads on this forums Jerry Springer section if you like? But I don't think I have to do I.

Pretending that hate or fear is some sort of small group tough content for guild membrs in NTov is laughable. Farming newbie raid zones is achieving one thing only, making lots of plat by preventing others from getting their epic pieces so you can dictate the price and inflate to stupid levels.

Spin more

[maskedmelon]

tsmis (they should make it so) that once you gain enough exp to ding 61 you go back to 1. The circle of life.

I like this idea very much. Though, I feel it would trivialize my monthly purge (I eat an xp death once a month to make sure I don't fall prey to the idea that any of this, least of all myself, should be taken seriously :3 )

I will also add that. Would like to see the Halloween Quest mob response implemented as a random treat for incomplete quest turn ins, but make it instant and quadruple it w/ --1999 resist modifier ^^

"I said 5,000 gold pieces!"


BOOM!!



What you think? Anyone? Yes? ^^

[Whirled]

» About Project 1999 Project 1999 started development in 2008, and was released in October of 2009. The mission of the project is to create the classic feeling that many had during the early days of Everquest during those time periods, starting with Classic content and releasing the other expansions and content on a similar timeline that was experienced on Live. The server will stop at Velious, at which point many options will be considered, including possible custom content that will maintain the spirit of the game, and/or an additional new server starting over at Pre-Kunark.

http://www.project1999.com/index.php?pageid=about

I'll wager most of the server did NOT experience this sort of game play.

[maskedmelon]

Well sure, but it sure would generate a classic feeling. How many "omgosh wtf this super sux" moments did you encounter in early EQ? That's right, a LOT. How many do you experience now? Not so many, huh? Yep.

#instaquadraicecometforimmersion

[Whirled]

Well sure, but it sure would generate a classic feeling. How many "omgosh wtf this super sux" moments did you encounter in early EQ? That's right, a LOT. How many do you experience now? Not so many, huh? Yep.

#instaquadraicecometforimmersion

Personally myself? Not many, if any at all. If a game was a horrible waste of time and of no enjoyment; why would one subject themselves to a constant waste of time and/or dissatisfaction? Games are meant to be played and enjoyed for the reasons they were made. If you missed it...
The mission of the project is to create the classic feeling that many had during the early days of Everquest.

Hope this helps, friend

[renordw]

I'll wager most of the server did NOT experience this sort of game play.

QFT

[Croco]

QFT

This bears repeating.

[mickmoranis]

Best advice for this is I would FORM A CREW







































































http://i.imgur.com/Et3qoYH.gif

[Gumbo]

You mean that one game from 2004 that's the #2 highest selling PC game of all time, and still the #1 mmorpg on the global market 12 years after its first release? :eek:

You mean that one game when a new expansion is released, it gives people the option to skip levels 1-100 if they just buy the new expansion instead of grinding all those levels?

[skarlorn]

Back in 2013 I felt a lot of classic feels. If you want to struggle just play a warrior as ur main and don't suck d for twink items

It's very easy to not participate in the mq economy.

[Alanus]

The only way to stop MQs will be if the devs disable them.

However, MQs are classic, so that probably isn't happening.

[Ravager]

The only way to stop MQs will be if the devs disable them.

However, MQs are classic, so that probably isn't happening.
They went through all the trouble of programming them in. Wouldn't make sense to take them out again.

[Mortiis]

create lists and rotations

I still don't understand how this is so damn difficult here. I really don't. Everyone pretty much knows who is who, who is in what guild, who does what, who is capable...

[Whirled]

Some people like to double dip is part of problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfprRZQxWps

[mickmoranis]

I still don't understand how this is so damn difficult here. I really don't. Everyone pretty much knows who is who, who is in what guild, who does what, who is capable...

last time someone tried to form up a crew and make lists all the threads got nuked :D

[Ikon]

They went through all the trouble of programming them in. Wouldn't make sense to take them out again.
I don't think they should remove multiquesting. I think an GM enforced list / rotation for epic pieces would be sufficient.

I'm a necro and never plan to get my epic because its ugly and fashionquest is a thing so I'm not being biased. I went to hate 15 times to get my hand for enchanter and that was hard enough without farmers making things more difficult.

[Meep]

They went through all the trouble of programming them in. Wouldn't make sense to take them out again.

Spoken like a tunnel trader.

[Ravager]

Spoken like a tunnel trader.
Yeah. You know me. I'm in EC 24/7.

Or, I've been playing on this server long enough to remember the time when there were no JBoots MQ's, because they hadn't been programmed in yet. Every MQ in the game had to be coded separately, unless I'm mistaken. Haynar could probably tell you all about it.

[Ikon]

Yeah. You know me. I'm in EC 24/7.

Or, I've been playing on this server long enough to remember the time when there were no JBoots MQ's, because they hadn't been programmed in yet. Every MQ in the game had to be coded separately, unless I'm mistaken. Haynar could probably tell you all about it.
I doubt thats the case - when it comes to programming things tend to be very modular - if you have an npc it likely inherited most of its behaviours from a basic npc class that all npcs use and then has additional behaviours specific to its npc type that it shares with all npcs of its type and then if its a special npc has its own special behaviours

you may be right but its more likely mq npcs have shared mq code that reference a table to select the correct item to deliver

Regardless of that just because code was implemented 6 years ago doesnt mean it shouldnt be modified or switched off if player behaviour diviates so much from live that circumstances require it to be

[Nilstoniakrath]

last time someone tried to form up a crew and make lists all the threads got nuked :D

Just curious, what are the rules for posting on the forums? I can understand when someone crosses the line of vulgarity, slurs, posting of RL info, etc. But the "crew" threads did none of that, as far as I saw. This is a private site and the powers that be are free to do whatever they want, I do not begrudge them to nuke at will... but it strikes me as a bit arbitrary and peevish. It is what it is, but it would be appreciated if someone had the cajones to give a brief explanation. Or not, whatever.

[Meep]

All the crew threads just served as a warning sign for anyone new here to know what theyre getting themselves into. In 2009/2010 people came to re-experience classic EQ which camw with a friendly community and difficulty.

Going into 2017 we have a bunch of kids who cant behave either in game or out of it, people hoarding millions of plat and stepping on anyone trying to casually do things themselves on a lmited timeframe, and a petition culture.

Seems like a game designed originally to be fun, friendly and casual is actually harboring a comminity now thats the polar opposite.

[Dreenk317]

All the crew threads just served as a warning sign for anyone new here to know what theyre getting themselves into. In 2009/2010 people came to re-experience classic EQ which camw with a friendly community and difficulty.

Going into 2017 we have a bunch of kids who cant behave either in game or out of it, people hoarding millions of plat and stepping on anyone trying to casually do things themselves on a lmited timeframe, and a petition culture.

Seems like a game designed originally to be fun, friendly and casual is actually harboring a comminity now thats the polar opposite.

Could not agree more. I often run up to people when there at some cash camp. Especially if I was heading there to see if it's open. I have been greeted by "I'm camping <insert mob here> if you KS it I will petition you" more times than I care to remember. And that's all before either one of us has said hello :p

[Ikon]

All the crew threads just served as a warning sign for anyone new here to know what theyre getting themselves into. In 2009/2010 people came to re-experience classic EQ which camw with a friendly community and difficulty.

Going into 2017 we have a bunch of kids who cant behave either in game or out of it, people hoarding millions of plat and stepping on anyone trying to casually do things themselves on a lmited timeframe, and a petition culture.

Seems like a game designed originally to be fun, friendly and casual is actually harboring a comminity now thats the polar opposite.
There are still nice peeps here. In one day some guy gave my newbie ranger a sword of skyfire, some random cleric buffs the crap out of me and a druid kited the ghoul messenger over to me in WK so I could loot the kithi map...

Not everyones a cant. Maybe it just gets distilled at high level where cants stay and good people leave.




Just curious, what are the rules for posting on the forums? I can understand when someone crosses the line of vulgarity, slurs, posting of RL info, etc. But the "crew" threads did none of that, as far as I saw. This is a private site and the powers that be are free to do whatever they want, I do not begrudge them to nuke at will... but it strikes me as a bit arbitrary and peevish. It is what it is, but it would be appreciated if someone had the cajones to give a brief explanation. Or not, whatever.
Doubt it was the staff that nuked them, Verants policy was always to leave it up to the players to sort out rotations and lists. Plenty of links to Absor posts stating that.

[Mythanor]

All the crew threads just served as a warning sign for anyone new here to know what theyre getting themselves into. In 2009/2010 people came to re-experience classic EQ which camw with a friendly community and difficulty.

Going into 2017 we have a bunch of kids who cant behave either in game or out of it, people hoarding millions of plat and stepping on anyone trying to casually do things themselves on a lmited timeframe, and a petition culture.

Seems like a game designed originally to be fun, friendly and casual is actually harboring a comminity now thats the polar opposite.

[Computer Man]

Definitely a case for saying P99 is retaining many of its worst players and losing some good casual new starters with the ethics around here (or lack of them). It's cool though, "I'm not breaking any rules" ... :/

[Ravager]

I doubt thats the case - when it comes to programming things tend to be very modular - if you have an npc it likely inherited most of its behaviours from a basic npc class that all npcs use and then has additional behaviours specific to its npc type that it shares with all npcs of its type and then if its a special npc has its own special behaviours

you may be right but its more likely mq npcs have shared mq code that reference a table to select the correct item to deliver

Regardless of that just because code was implemented 6 years ago doesnt mean it shouldnt be modified or switched off if player behaviour diviates so much from live that circumstances require it to be
They probably found a better solution, but these are the discussions I remember.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2755&highlight=multiquesting

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5102&highlight=multiquesting

Seems like it was implemented quest by quest:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17742&highlight=multiquesting

[Ikon]

They probably found a better solution, but these are the discussions I remember.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2755&highlight=multiquesting

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5102&highlight=multiquesting

Seems like it was implemented quest by quest:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17742&highlight=multiquesting
yup looks like you were correct

[elwing]

Rather than fighting multiquesting, fight corpsing... lore should also apply to corpse... problem fixed...

[Lhancelot]

Rather than fighting multiquesting, fight corpsing... lore should also apply to corpse... problem fixed...

that's a great idea actually.

[Gumbo]

All the crew threads just served as a warning sign for anyone new here to know what theyre getting themselves into. In 2009/2010 people came to re-experience classic EQ which camw with a friendly community and difficulty.

Going into 2017 we have a bunch of kids who cant behave either in game or out of it, people hoarding millions of plat and stepping on anyone trying to casually do things themselves on a lmited timeframe, and a petition culture.

Seems like a game designed originally to be fun, friendly and casual is actually harboring a comminity now thats the polar opposite.

You forgot to mention that since these kids started playing P99 in 2016/2017. They missed out on items that either got removed or changed with patches so all they want to do is bitch, whine and cry and keep complaining to wipe the server and start over.

[Computer Man]

I have 26 fungi tunics, 7 AONs, 5 COFs and 3 manastones

feels goog man... I need them all because they hold their value against mudflation, sorry they're not for sale, see you in another 10 years when fungi tunics are the currency we trade with.